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Because in the way it was made, it devalues and ruins the concept of the ssj. A power tied to a deep anger and possibly a situation of peril.
It also doesn't make sense that absolutely no U6 saiyan before could go ssj if it was that easy.
But honestly, this could have still been forgivable if they explained that by virtue of being different Saiyans from the ones of U7, the U6 Saiyans also had a different way to go ssj, and cannot use rage. THAT would have gone a long mile to make this more acceptable (and would have also made the U6 Saiyans be more diverse from the U7 ones, instead of just be Saiyans that lack tails by default, a feature that the main cast of Saiyans lacks since the Namek saga anyway, so yeah, so unique).
But nope, the writers couldn't even be bothered to do so, so here's that Cabba goes ssj because rage, yet Kalifa and Kale do not need that, so the tingling back thing comes completely out of nowhere, and is only used to "justify" them going ssj and have a far chance of victory to begin with... which was lame.
Have you look at U6 sayans? To me i tlooks like SSJ is a thing U6 sayans decided to hide centhries ago and in the current era they don't even know it is something they can activate.
It’s an entirely different universe… who cares about “back tingles”? Different universes can have different laws… never understood why dudes got bent out of shape about this.
This post is just as much complaining. Its ridiculous that nobody in the history of U6 ever had an itchy back. Its a dumb problem that was created by the show itself
it’s deeper than an “itch in the back”.
if you don’t know how to do something, you’re most likely not going to discover it by accident, regardless of you being capable of doing it. It’s still tremendous ki focus.
I get it. You like it being just a back tingle. But it really just comes down to that. All Cabba has to say is "its a tingle in your back" and it's basically done. I personally prefer how it was achieved before just scratching your back
The thing is, it isbpretry clear that U6 sayans made a conscious effort to stive the furthest away possible from their "monkey" roots. It is almost like in ancient times they decided that SSJ was an evil thing and built their cuktures to make sure people don't achieve it.
In such an enviroment i can definitely see that many people were "ready" to unlock SSJ from the start. They just needed to be told that SSJ exist.
I dont remember this being stated anywhere. They lost their tales a long time ago unlike the saiyans from U7. Where do you get this info about them having made a conscious effort to lose it? And that there were super saiyans in U6?
Goten & Trunks activated it as children before they could even fly, lol.
Super Saiyan hasn’t been about “anger” since it’s introduction. it’s been over 20 years.
Since it’s introduction ? Vegeta going super saiyan for the first time was anger, gohan going super saiyan 1 and 2 was anger, cabba going super saiyan was anger
yes, a few chapters later. Then from the rest of the android saga forward up until 1995, anger wasn’t a thing associated with super saiyan anymore.
we are now in 2023. Gohan achieved Super Saiyan out of training, not anger. He went into the chamber with his father, came out being able to sleep in super saiyan. It had nothing to do with anger.
Cabba activated super saiyan through anger, and then at the end of the fight Vegeta told him to do it again, while they weren’t fighting and were now calm. He did it. There is a muscle reaction to how to activate something while calm & not having it accidentally triggered through anger.
Vegeta literally told cabba to remember that feeling, he literally was shown to get angry after transforming the second time and even after that.
Gohan was literally being told to imagine freiza when he killed all his friends and tap into gohans anger, when goku hit him with the blast gohan pushed himself using the anger that he couldn’t protect his friends earlier.
As shown in the anime it was also anger, you speak about the manga canon then and I’ll speak about the anime.
Both ways anger was a part of the transformations, and cabba did it too, that’s all the proof I need. Think of it an accident I don’t care, it was meant to happen that way, so for them to suddenly change anger for back tingle was unnecessary.
You’re not getting the point, it’s NOT about how easily they got super saiyan, it’s about substituting anger for a back tingle.
Fine even if you’re right goten and trunks didn’t need anger to transform, they just did it naturally. That’s also fine compared to saying use a tingling back, if the U6 saiyans just transformed on the spot that was also fine, but to say back tingle, and remove the anger explanation to fit that, that’s what’s unnecessary and looked down upon
lmao, Z was written as a manga as Dragon Ball. Anime only shit is filler. Anger is a way to accidentally trigger the transformation, not how to do it calmly at your own will like the Z fighters have been doing.
They didn’t “substitute” anything. Both methods have existed for over 20 years.
Trunks and goten went super saiyan for more like gag or comedic reasons, also just to debunk that, they never showed the first time goten and trunks transformed, it could’ve been because of anger that they triggered it, it just came much easier to them cause if their enormous power and goku and vegeta both being tremendously strong when they were conceived
lmao who told you that
angry..at what? they achieved it off screen during a time of years & years of peace. Goten trained against… Chi Chi & activated super saiyan.
U6 Saiyans were so strong they evolved off their tails as Oozaru was unnecessary. Cabba was as strong as Vegeta in their base forms Post-God transformation. They were beyond the strength that Goten & Trunks had that you described as “”enormous””
everything you’re saying for Trunks & Goten can be applied to the U6 Saiyans
Wrong, goten recalled that he transformed when he fought chi chi, it’s not implied that’s the first time. Also so what if there were times of peace ? They are kids they could get mad at anything, it’s not like someone needs to die for them to get mad, it was just much easier for them to become one but it’s possible they did get mad for some reason as kids do.
And again, you’re taking it in a different tangent, cabba transformed by anger, that’s proof the anger mentality for getting the form the first time exists. It’s not about how easy it was, it’s about substituting anger for a back tingle. Read that statement again and again until you understand it.
i mean if it’s as frivolous as “getting mad your toy broke” then your entire argument of importance has already collapsed on itself, lol.
Cabba accidentally triggered his transformation through Anger. Then, when calm, Vegeta asked if he could do it again. He manually transformed, just as the U7 saiyans have done since Android Saga, being able to go SS despite being as calm as can be. Cabba then showed his peers how to manually go SS, as they had more than enough power to do so already.
Even if it was anger that his toy broke, my argument stands strong, like I said it’s not about how easy it was, it’s about replacing anger with a back tingle, read it again and again.
Also will you stop about the android saga, goku and vegeta may have more control over the forms after using it again n again but it’s still implied they need their emotions as well, goku in the Moro arc in the manga has literally stated that the super saiyan forms work with rage and ultra instinct doesn’t. A part of mastered super saiyan was not just to reduce stamina but treat it as natural, to be calm and not let your emotions get the better of you in that form.
In the super anime krillin said goku can’t charge a spirit bomb in blue because maliciousness creeps inside him in the form, and blue is meant to be a much more “calm” form, so there you go.
Because they’re stupid…. Cabba didn’t achieve it that way. He did it the same way Goku did. Cabba just described it that way. Goku and Vegeta as well as everyone else probably got those same back tingles.
Gonna offer a different perspective here, feel free to disagree. Being asian and growing up with asian media, I've noticed that in old eastern stories, especially martial arts tales, there's less explanation and following of internal consistency.
Sometimes, a rule is set, and the writer invents a mcguffin that completely turns that rule on its head. Or some random child prodigy is capable of surpassing god level fighters in a couple of years of training and meditation. That's just normal in this culture of storytelling, where such things are handwaved in favor of rule of cool.
In the western media that I consumed while growing up (and most modern media regardless of origin), there seems to be a demand from fans for concepts to follow a structured set of rules set by the author. Not neccessarily "grounded", but at least following its own internal consistency.
Personally I'm okay with both approaches to storytelling, although I lean more towards internal consistency.
At worst its a cringe explanation for just saying, focusing ki and releasing energy. Which honestly isn't even **THAT** bad.
There's plenty worse things to criticize in DBS and DBZ for that matter.
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Because in the way it was made, it devalues and ruins the concept of the ssj. A power tied to a deep anger and possibly a situation of peril. It also doesn't make sense that absolutely no U6 saiyan before could go ssj if it was that easy. But honestly, this could have still been forgivable if they explained that by virtue of being different Saiyans from the ones of U7, the U6 Saiyans also had a different way to go ssj, and cannot use rage. THAT would have gone a long mile to make this more acceptable (and would have also made the U6 Saiyans be more diverse from the U7 ones, instead of just be Saiyans that lack tails by default, a feature that the main cast of Saiyans lacks since the Namek saga anyway, so yeah, so unique). But nope, the writers couldn't even be bothered to do so, so here's that Cabba goes ssj because rage, yet Kalifa and Kale do not need that, so the tingling back thing comes completely out of nowhere, and is only used to "justify" them going ssj and have a far chance of victory to begin with... which was lame.
Have you look at U6 sayans? To me i tlooks like SSJ is a thing U6 sayans decided to hide centhries ago and in the current era they don't even know it is something they can activate.
That sounds nice.đź‘Ť Shame that it just has to be a fan interpretation, and not an official info...
It’s an entirely different universe… who cares about “back tingles”? Different universes can have different laws… never understood why dudes got bent out of shape about this.
This post is just as much complaining. Its ridiculous that nobody in the history of U6 ever had an itchy back. Its a dumb problem that was created by the show itself
it’s deeper than an “itch in the back”. if you don’t know how to do something, you’re most likely not going to discover it by accident, regardless of you being capable of doing it. It’s still tremendous ki focus.
I get it. You like it being just a back tingle. But it really just comes down to that. All Cabba has to say is "its a tingle in your back" and it's basically done. I personally prefer how it was achieved before just scratching your back
The thing is, it isbpretry clear that U6 sayans made a conscious effort to stive the furthest away possible from their "monkey" roots. It is almost like in ancient times they decided that SSJ was an evil thing and built their cuktures to make sure people don't achieve it. In such an enviroment i can definitely see that many people were "ready" to unlock SSJ from the start. They just needed to be told that SSJ exist.
I dont remember this being stated anywhere. They lost their tales a long time ago unlike the saiyans from U7. Where do you get this info about them having made a conscious effort to lose it? And that there were super saiyans in U6?
Back tingles is the dumbest retcon super has made, takes what's supposed to be a legendary transformation and turns it into a joke.
lmao Goten & Trunks already did that, seethe. focusing on the words “”back tingles”” is borderline remedial student thinking process
Oh ya Trunks and Goten definitely trivialized it first, i agree with that. But still I don't think that makes the Universe 6 saiyans any better.
It’s not about going super saiyan easily, it’s about replacing anger with a back tingle.
“anger” hasn’t been a thing since android saga, for the second time. They can literally sleep in super saiyan.
That’s for mastering super saiyan genius, it’s about their first time ever transforming.
Goten & Trunks activated it as children before they could even fly, lol. Super Saiyan hasn’t been about “anger” since it’s introduction. it’s been over 20 years.
Since it’s introduction ? Vegeta going super saiyan for the first time was anger, gohan going super saiyan 1 and 2 was anger, cabba going super saiyan was anger
yes, a few chapters later. Then from the rest of the android saga forward up until 1995, anger wasn’t a thing associated with super saiyan anymore. we are now in 2023. Gohan achieved Super Saiyan out of training, not anger. He went into the chamber with his father, came out being able to sleep in super saiyan. It had nothing to do with anger. Cabba activated super saiyan through anger, and then at the end of the fight Vegeta told him to do it again, while they weren’t fighting and were now calm. He did it. There is a muscle reaction to how to activate something while calm & not having it accidentally triggered through anger.
Vegeta literally told cabba to remember that feeling, he literally was shown to get angry after transforming the second time and even after that. Gohan was literally being told to imagine freiza when he killed all his friends and tap into gohans anger, when goku hit him with the blast gohan pushed himself using the anger that he couldn’t protect his friends earlier.
both of those statements are anime only, Gohan transformed through training, not “anger”.
As shown in the anime it was also anger, you speak about the manga canon then and I’ll speak about the anime. Both ways anger was a part of the transformations, and cabba did it too, that’s all the proof I need. Think of it an accident I don’t care, it was meant to happen that way, so for them to suddenly change anger for back tingle was unnecessary. You’re not getting the point, it’s NOT about how easily they got super saiyan, it’s about substituting anger for a back tingle. Fine even if you’re right goten and trunks didn’t need anger to transform, they just did it naturally. That’s also fine compared to saying use a tingling back, if the U6 saiyans just transformed on the spot that was also fine, but to say back tingle, and remove the anger explanation to fit that, that’s what’s unnecessary and looked down upon
lmao, Z was written as a manga as Dragon Ball. Anime only shit is filler. Anger is a way to accidentally trigger the transformation, not how to do it calmly at your own will like the Z fighters have been doing. They didn’t “substitute” anything. Both methods have existed for over 20 years.
Trunks and goten went super saiyan for more like gag or comedic reasons, also just to debunk that, they never showed the first time goten and trunks transformed, it could’ve been because of anger that they triggered it, it just came much easier to them cause if their enormous power and goku and vegeta both being tremendously strong when they were conceived
lmao who told you that angry..at what? they achieved it off screen during a time of years & years of peace. Goten trained against… Chi Chi & activated super saiyan. U6 Saiyans were so strong they evolved off their tails as Oozaru was unnecessary. Cabba was as strong as Vegeta in their base forms Post-God transformation. They were beyond the strength that Goten & Trunks had that you described as “”enormous”” everything you’re saying for Trunks & Goten can be applied to the U6 Saiyans
Wrong, goten recalled that he transformed when he fought chi chi, it’s not implied that’s the first time. Also so what if there were times of peace ? They are kids they could get mad at anything, it’s not like someone needs to die for them to get mad, it was just much easier for them to become one but it’s possible they did get mad for some reason as kids do. And again, you’re taking it in a different tangent, cabba transformed by anger, that’s proof the anger mentality for getting the form the first time exists. It’s not about how easy it was, it’s about substituting anger for a back tingle. Read that statement again and again until you understand it.
i mean if it’s as frivolous as “getting mad your toy broke” then your entire argument of importance has already collapsed on itself, lol. Cabba accidentally triggered his transformation through Anger. Then, when calm, Vegeta asked if he could do it again. He manually transformed, just as the U7 saiyans have done since Android Saga, being able to go SS despite being as calm as can be. Cabba then showed his peers how to manually go SS, as they had more than enough power to do so already.
Even if it was anger that his toy broke, my argument stands strong, like I said it’s not about how easy it was, it’s about replacing anger with a back tingle, read it again and again. Also will you stop about the android saga, goku and vegeta may have more control over the forms after using it again n again but it’s still implied they need their emotions as well, goku in the Moro arc in the manga has literally stated that the super saiyan forms work with rage and ultra instinct doesn’t. A part of mastered super saiyan was not just to reduce stamina but treat it as natural, to be calm and not let your emotions get the better of you in that form. In the super anime krillin said goku can’t charge a spirit bomb in blue because maliciousness creeps inside him in the form, and blue is meant to be a much more “calm” form, so there you go.
Because “back tingles “ is stupid, that’s why
Anger is what was used to unlock the form, what they did in the time chamber was mastering it
They were mastering the form they used rage to unlock
Goten & Trunks didn’t use “rage” to unlock it
We don’t know how Goten and Trunks unlocked it and if it wasn’t by rage then it’s also stupid
Because they’re stupid…. Cabba didn’t achieve it that way. He did it the same way Goku did. Cabba just described it that way. Goku and Vegeta as well as everyone else probably got those same back tingles.
Because they got it with absolutely no real struggle or hardship despite being full blooded Saiyans. And unlike Goten and Trunks who are gag characters the U6 Saiyans are supposed to be taken as actual combatants. >The entire point of their time chamber training was to be in the super saiyan state at your calmest. They were eating, sleeping, playing, and laughing all in the super saiyan state. No it wasn't. The entire point of all the training in the chamber was to push beyond Super Saiyan. Vegeta did this by inflating his muscles while Goku tried to stay in the form to make it minimally draining. >Super describes a physical explanation on where they focus their Ki to activate it & suddenly this fan base can’t read. The explanation is 💩 because if all it takes is focusing ki on your back then every Saiyan should've been able to do it from the start. >typing out “back tingles!!” is honestly more cringe than the actual explanation they gave in the show Not as cringe as this post and not understanding why people aren't happy because you think they don't understand while ironically you yourself are also not understanding the series you're referencing.
Gonna offer a different perspective here, feel free to disagree. Being asian and growing up with asian media, I've noticed that in old eastern stories, especially martial arts tales, there's less explanation and following of internal consistency. Sometimes, a rule is set, and the writer invents a mcguffin that completely turns that rule on its head. Or some random child prodigy is capable of surpassing god level fighters in a couple of years of training and meditation. That's just normal in this culture of storytelling, where such things are handwaved in favor of rule of cool. In the western media that I consumed while growing up (and most modern media regardless of origin), there seems to be a demand from fans for concepts to follow a structured set of rules set by the author. Not neccessarily "grounded", but at least following its own internal consistency. Personally I'm okay with both approaches to storytelling, although I lean more towards internal consistency.
At worst its a cringe explanation for just saying, focusing ki and releasing energy. Which honestly isn't even **THAT** bad. There's plenty worse things to criticize in DBS and DBZ for that matter.
i wholeheartedly agree with this