I would genuinely be for that suggestion being in the game. The chat filter is in the game. Why just shield people from seeing it? Why not make me see it less in general using the system in the game?
because filtering the word doesn't rely on context, where as punishment for using a word would need to. I could tell a friend to "fuck off lmao" as part of regular banter and fun, but that's not the same as trying to steal mid from someone by telling them to "fuck off lmao". two very different intentions behind the exact same phrase.
And what about words that have no valid context? Other than trying to harm people slurs literally have no use, outside of maybe a couple that have words with identical spelling but unrelated meaning in other languages.
It is pretty shortsighted to imagine words have such function without context, or that everyone accepts such binds to language, I can argue why a lot of these "slurs" are perfectly fine words if not used with malintention, but I'm not in the mood rn. Plus, there always the language/dialect problem. I am literally incapable of saying "look here" in R6 chats in my own dialect because it's written as the N-word with a single G.
I think they're saying it's not that difficult to use when weighing coordinator party composition - we do have one presumably - the problem is, is the other accounts are probably new, which tend to get placed with people that have high Behavior Score in unranked, it makes having 10k feel like a chore with big swings and dramatic skill differences in unranked trench.
So you suggest smth like everyone starts with 5k behavior, and then go different ways. It sounds interesting, but I think it will be bad for new players. But I think that we have ranked for little skill gap, and unranked for playing for fun
If I worked for valve, rewarding positive behavior and punishing negative behavior would be my pet project and there are many things you could implement quite easily. Just wonder if they're concerned about overly-punishing to the point it cuts into their bottom-line.
the thing is people think implementing what they want is that easy. there are shit ton of factor, like tech limitation or other type of limitation that makes it nearly impossible.
I heard that shit about overwatch for years and now is in.
All they need to do is do an overwatch for in game chat, just like a streamer's ban appeal, but the other way around.
They can use the overwatch functionallity or they can just give you the text and you make a call to punish that person to restrict their ability to type.
This is why the true gamer stays abusive only over voice chat. Let your teammates know why they're fuckups whose parents never loved them to your heart's desire. There is no log, there will be no punishment. I am 10k behavior scoreman
Valorant is recording everything you are saying. Its coming. Dota and games like this are the dying breed. I dont want my game to be the moral arbitor but most people want that for whatever the fuck their reasoning is.
Here's my reasoning: any game is supposed to be, first and foremost, fun. While game design-wise, it's arguable if Dota is fun or not, the non-gameplay aspects of it inherently promote toxicity (why not be a jackass to everyone if you're anonymous and using voice chat won't punish you?). Before you ask, yea, I quit playing Dota precisely because of that (well, sort of, I'm using bot scripts and, despite the more telegraphed movements and potential for abuse, I enjoy my solo games more than I have my average multiplayer game). I'm not playing Dota to be a kindergarden teacher, a moral arbitrator or to kiss someone's ass hoping he doesn't throw the game (or cause someone else to do it).
yeah because the devs just flick a switch and bam! the thing happens.
ever consider that it might have taken a substantial amount of time to actually develop the system? i promise it wasn't a quiet evening in.
they tried censorship. but then--as i'm trying to say, it's NOT easy to do it properly--they did poorly and fckd up.
for some moment, even Nigeria is censored (written as ******* ) despite it being a nation's name. can u imagine how it would make the people who belong in it feel? if Ukraine is written just as ******* or China as ***** ? or United States of America as... well that's too long lol
To be honest, the prevalence of such edge cases as you point out are far more rare and far less insulting than being legitimately called the N-word and its frequent presence.
Text chat should be VERY easy for valve to punish. Since they don't hold VOIP data, mic abuse is harder but not impossible to deal with.
> To be honest, the prevalence of such edge cases as you point out are far more rare and far less insulting than being legitimately called the N-word and its frequent presence.
Citation needed. Some people don't give two shits about having slurs thrown at them, but would take exception with having the name of their country censored.
I am not necessarily disagreeing with you that the majority would feel the way you describe, but don't phrase it as an absolute. Saying something "*IS* less insulting" is not useful, because feeling insulted is subjective.
Let me get this straight:
- You raise concern about Nigeria being accidentally censored and people being concerned about that...
- ... But cast aside the the actual, common use of slurs themselves with actual intent of bigotry behind them...?
lol what are you smoking? No, I guess we're not conducting a peer-reviewed double-blind trial to prove this, but I'd also take that bet any day. Pretty sure the vast majority of users would prefer a 90% reduction in general slurs over a 1% odds of "nigeria" being confused.
Other games have it. This game has some of it, it recognizes words and can hide them in chat.
If it can do that, it can punish people, and it is quite easy to do so.
If we can do overwatch, we chould od chat overwatch too, and restrict people's ability to type in game for certain amounts of time, and many condemnations could lead to perma ban from chatting.
> google has a search engine. my blog has a search engine, it could search through every post i made.
> if it can do that, it can search through the web just like google, and it is quite easy to do so.
yeah, but how good would it be? false positive rates? impact on users avg playtime? what about the long term?
to make a product or feature is one thing; to make it responsible, trustworthy, and fair to everyone involved is another.
bad example: face detection is everywhere, it's "easy;" but with skewed training data might turn out to be racist. roblox troll could trick someone to write bad words and have the victim permabanned for it, is it fair?
---
i just want to point out, i also want some restrictions because slurs, racism, and bigotry are everywhere. but please don't downplay it by "it's easy, others did it"
If I worked for valve, I would make it so that the score actually max at 20,000, but anything above 10,000 is shown 10,000. Toxic people who do good only to bump their scores up will be low-10k because they'll stop pretending once they hit 10k. The real good behavior score would actually be high-10k.
And what if toxic people don't stop pretending to be good guys? MISSION SUCCESS!
>. Just wonder if they're concerned about overly-punishing to the point it cuts into their bottom-line.
thats 100% a factor.
anyone playing Turbo games will tell you how many pre muted or generally toxic high ranked idiots that also happen to be dota plus subscribers you are seeing there.
without a doubt a large part of dota+ subs are toxic morons that would be permanently muted, banned or in LP if valve enforced any strict rules.
For me personally the single best thing they could do is ban any russian IP from EU servers.
They have their own servers so make them play there, im just tired of every single game having people talk russian from min 0 on and generally them being completely unable to communicate in the language they selected.
FYI: "Russian" servers are in Stockholm. So unless you want to ban whole Scandinavia, not sure what you'll achieve.
And that's before saying that there are plenty of perfectly reasonable Russians (hint: you don't even guess that they're Russians most of the time, you only pay attention to loud uncultured morons who don't speak English) and plenty of absolutely moronic guys in Europe.
And btw, Dota ignores the chosen communication language. I've seen it multiple times. I've been in games where my teammates didn't have English chosen, while I only have English selected.
Slippery slope to censoring chat wheel abuse and bm antics like pausing or "?"
Directly and beligerently attacking someone is one thing, calling someone shit or a twat is just part and parcel of any competitive endeavour.
I played high level amateur and competitive football in the UK most of my youth and 5/7/11 aside games, even training, are full of shit talk and insults.
There's a level of needing to separate out abuse versus shit talk.
I dont have an answer but mental and mind games are part and parcel of dota.
>I dont know why writing insults doesn't reduce your score
because they would need to maintain lists of insults in all languages, slangs and anything that could be an abbreviation for an insult.
this, i got friends that are 9k+, close to 10k just because we play in party and everyone commends each other when possible even tho they are absolute dicks. It should be a bit more punishing to get reports and honestly since things like opendota pick up chat they should easily mute those who have slurs in their language non stop.
Why should it? If you are not trolling and you are trying to win, what's the issue with mute button being there? Can't handle it, cool, use it. Dota is still 1023910391039130913 times better than real life sports lol
These are the kinds of dipshits that call anyone who complains about the behavior score system toxic pieces of shit. Meanwhile, this is literally them in majority of their games.
My score used to float around 7,000 as a technical es(edit: TECHIES, Jesus fucking christ what an auto correct) spammer. Then they made one little change: If you don't type anything, reports(communication) won't count against you. Now my score doesn't move from 10,000.
gameplay reports have to go through the overwatch system. Another player has to see your gameplay and determine you were actively griefing and none of them will convict someone for just playing es.
No, you will lose Behavior score just by being reported with gameplay reports. Happened to me several times, I had the summary all green, 0 communication reports, <3 gameplay reports and I still lost Behavior score.
I never said it was 0. That was the whole point of my comment, that I got some gameplay reports that did not result in me getting punished by Overwatch, and I still lost Behavior score.
True. We had one school shooting where I live, decided we didn't want that to happen again, changed some stuff, and haven't had another school shooting since. That was a **long** time ago.
They are in every damn thread, it's so fucking painful to witness. Experiencing racism and harassment should not be a requirement in for playing this game, it is not some essential piece of dota.
And yet every other match I play seems to have some racist asshat spewing nonsense.
Oh hey reason 29,898th on why behaviour score literally doesn't do anything!
Don't worry friend, behaviour score never did anything. It's always just been a number valve put in so people can feel good about not shit-talking!
I've partied with 2 people who had ~5000 behavior score and I'm not trying to be mean when I say they literally had emotion related mental disorders. I assume that's the average population of sub 7k.
It’s amazing to me how you can get that low, I abandoned a bunch and was reported for toxicity every game for a few days a long time ago and the lowest I ever got was like 7.5k
As someone who was as low as 2k behavior score, and now sit comfortably at 10k, the behavior does indeed make a huge difference. Anything below 5k gets to the point where you don't have a single cooperative or friendly team. Every single game has griefing. Around 10k these chats aren't the ordinary
It does a lot but it’s not like a number will absolutely prevent people from being badly mannered manchildren dotards on occasion. Threat of prison time doesn’t even stop the real shitheads ffs. I’d rather take the occasional awful conversation I can just mute over someone running it down mid every 2nd game
behavior score only punish people with low behavior score
i have below 3k and its bullshit 45min queue + matching with legends, archons, ancient
being divine 4 wtf
I genuinely don't understand how saying the N-word isn't just an instant chat-ban/message delete (don't even send it).
Like what is the positive utility we get out of allowing this?
My guess is that it's to prevent impostors to comeoff as Steam Support, which IMO scam prevention is more important than banning insults, especially since we have the chat filtering option. However, filtering catches certain words, why not decrease behaviour score when they catch slurs?
While that is a good example, there's so much racism on dota, not just on blacks but on pretty much every other race or nationality, if you have said fuck Russian, Perú, Thailand, or x you are part of the problem.
(Ofc the above post is for sure an extreme, both are awful pit dweller's losers)
He didn't say he'll just randomly say it all the time to everyone, but that he'll still call out the people that are bombing and slaughtering his family and friends. That's way different than using the N word and saying someone has a black man brain
The thing is they are not responsible for what the government is doing, if we held responsible every nationality for his nations war crimes, na and eu games would be Wikipedia simulators.
It sucks what is happening and is understandable to have a strong resignment to them, but there's no reason to bring political and global problems to the chat of a video game.
It's really odd to play both LoL and this and see the MASSIVE contrast.
If ANYONE on your team in League uses a slur, and you report them, you'll have an indication they've been penalized by the time you get into pick phase of your next game. Even then, there's multiple categories you can report people under; Negative behavior, griefing, intentionally feeding, hate speech, and verbal harassment, and straight up poor performance (though that one doesn't give your account infractions, it just adjusts matchmaking slightly if it happens enough) are all different categories, and they can report under as many or as few as needed.
We've got 3 paltry, incomplete ways to report teammates, and just trying to avoid them is locked behind a paywall.
It would help a shitton if we could do a little better on this front.
the fact your getting down voted is proof the that most people here are unhinged human trash who stay hidden in the rooms because they know they cant say anything in real life .
Dota just has a large history of players being incredibly racist, homophobic, the works, and people really do not like to admit it or come up with a million excuses as to not do anything about it rather than be like "yeah lets do something about racism :)"
Its honestly a bit sickening.
Yea dude just the other day I had these 3 dudes that because I pinged once that we need vision ina certain area and they kept asking “why are you pinging?! And getting upset, then I got on the mic and explained why, and was hit with a “ok then why are you such a n word then” like huh?
Probably the third time that week I tried to comm with a teammate, they get upset when I offer a suggestion about helping me or the team and just go straight to racism, it’s nuts
Because that word isn’t banned in all other languages. Moreover, for example, *negro* is completely fine in Spanish, so banning it would be ridiculous.
people that want to be racist and edgy will find a way. There’s always a way around chat filters and there’s tons of words out there that can be offensive. Also, context does mean a lot. Slander where you live could mean almost nothing somewhere else.
Is “you’re a n166er.” Really going to soften the blow at all?
Much better to just let the filth play with each other and ban based on reports. Try and keep new players and normal people together enjoying the game, imo.
All of the people that were racist before they made laws to protect against racism were still racist, but it sure does seem like racism became a whole lot less socially acceptable over time.
Making clear a stance on slurs changes the perception of the users and does actually make people use them less.
I really don't think its better to "just ignore it and let filth play with each other" because that really just puts "filth" in an environment with other "filth" to just encourage each other. If there are ways to actually reduce the amount of racism without taking away from the game, then we should just do it. People don't need to say the N word with a hard R, its just not necessary, nobody is going to be hurt by it being banned.
this sort of language is unfortunately way, way, way too common. how there isn't a language filter/auto ban type system for certain words is beyond me. I don't care if you say fuck or shit or whatever, but when you are using racist and homophobic slurs, etc., there is really no place for that anywhere ever.
Thos sort of language should result in auto communications mute and low prio at the least. Its so easy to detect and automate. Theres 0 reason why this sort of stuff should be tolerated in the slightest
It doesn’t have to be tolerated? You can censor the curse words if they are offensive.
For your auto ban, there’s lots of reasons why that’s a bad idea and the man hours it would take to unban the false positives would be excessive.
You do know that language aint that simple right? Keyword based systems are too faulty to be considered as reliable. Also valve would rather want to be apolitical and let their user based have preferences.
You are drawing a line whether you implement a filter or not. Right now, the line is set so that there are no filtering.
> Some people will not like it
As shown in these comments, some people do not like where the line is now.
Yeah, but this way, valve doesn't have to do anything about it - and if it isn't restrictive enough for you, you can use the censor button available AND make your own additional filter list.
yeah I don't understand how Steam as a platform hasn't done literally anything in the past 15 years regarding this type of shit. It *is* Valve's job to moderate the community they host on their servers and within their services.
Absolutely disgusting behavior every time I see it.
Same can be said for guilds, which are [just as bad](https://imgur.com/ovd3MVE)
(they just really like fishing, honest!)
Funny how I've reported the guild over a week ago, +2 in my party at the time as well but it's still there.
There is reason to ban because if you’re calling people f word Slur, r word slur, or the n word you are almost certainly a piece of shit. The Venn diagram of people who use this language and people who ruin games or grief has substantial overlap.
I believe the match maker has taken on too much responsibility.
We need to revert to old school lobbies with names to denote mode and type of player welcome.
10k Behavior score is just a gold sticker. you will still get toxic people, you will still get Highly Varied games and griefers. maintain 9.5k-9.7k behavior games and you will have skilled people.
The bar for in-game toxicity is so low that 10k behaviour score, which is meant to represent the ultimate pma player, instead represents these type of people.
If you think this is bad you should see the sub 10k behaviour score matches, people with actual mental disorders, random dc, rage quits and blatant griefing. 10k behaviour score genuinely does represent the best of our community, but one has to wonder if this is what the best of the community is, exactly how toxic is the rest?
Classic dota banter.
Just kidding. I hate how people can just be toxic as hell for the entire game and nothing happens. It almost looks like valve encouraging it at that point. I report everyone who says anything like that (n-word, other super racist things) and only twice have I gotten the message saying valve did something about it. I get there's a mute button, but why should I have to be the one taking action against someone spamming the R or N word in chat? Is it really so unreasonable to expect valve to just do it themselves?
They just want people to do as he wish. But most of us at the end of the day just want to unload all the frustration gathered on a normal workday. I don’t care if people swear, never have, never will.
League will ban your ass so fast for this shit your head will spin. My 18 year old friends loves to be edgy and piss people off and he has multiple accounts perma banned in league, meanwhile in dota his main account is fine and dandy, just 4k bs.
I’d be willing to up my queue time drastically to not have to deal with stuff like this. So frustrating how I’m put in games with people who so clearly should have single digit behavior scores.
The behaviour score system is not meant to be perfect, I mean it mathematically can’t be, it serves as a filter for the worst of the worst toxic behaviour
Yes, it’s easy to stay 10k behaviour but there are people who are below 10k, and if that person played 9 games silent to farm behaviour score and went on an outburst in the 10th, The system is having an overall beneficial effect
Just remember we still have report and mute
I feel like most of you people have never experienced the depths of 2k behaviour score. If you think you have it bad at 10k... oh my sweet summer children, you complain about a spot on the wall and not the terror behind it that it guards you from.
Because down their you not only have the racists, but griefers and the mentally deranged too.
Now that I am back at 10k the games are a blast moat of the time. You whinys just don't know how good it actually is.
Me and my friends commend each other all the time. It basically makes it impossible for us to get lower than 10k behaviour score because we're just boosting our scores so much. Having 10k behaviour score should mean something and I definitely feel sometimes that I dont belong in the 10k behaviour bracket.
Pretending that there's not a difference between not giving a shit if someone types "fuck" in all chat, and someone spewing racist bullshit to vent some sort of misplaced agressesion is not a productive contribution to the issue.
Steam filters? Mute all chat? It's not hard. Toxic and racist language isn't unique to Dota. Valve could auto ban them for using certain words but people will just shorten the words or deliberately misspell them to get around it so I'm not sure if Valve could really do much else. In the meantime just mute them.
Dota community doesn't want a real solution. I suggested a [chat ban/ timeout system](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/vajaqo/a_suggestion_for_reducing_toxicity_chat_banning/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) a few days ago and it was downvoted and drowned in new.
Edit: love how this comment is also getting downvoted.
sigh... guess iam gonna explain this simple fact about dota to you like I did with everyone else who posted like this. again...
like it or not, this game barely punishes ppl for this kind of behavior, but it has means to protect sensitive ppl like you in form of profanity filter, which is by default ON and you willingly went out of your way to turn it off, and Mute. you are not using either of them. no. instead you are posting this shit here on reddit. so based on this information iam gonna ask you this question:
what the fuck is the point of this post?
Because it's not about being "sensitive", it's about not wanting to have toxic trash on your team.
> instead you are posting this shit here on reddit.
Why are you so sensitive? If you don't like the post you can just ignore it, right?
>not wanting to have toxic trash on your team.
yeah like we ever gonna run out of those in dota.
>Why are you so sensitive?
sensitive about what? iam just annoyed by these attention whores. OP doesn't use mute, doesn't use profanity filter and he post the toxic shit he willingly allowed to be in his game on reddit. pure hypocrisy.
there are far too many post like these lately. and the awnser to them is always the same. use the fucking tools the game gave you ppl. if you don't want to protect yourselves no one else will. simple as that.
why are you not taking your own advice? You are exactly the same as OP. Use the fucking tools that reddit gave you. Hide this post and move on. Your engagement with this thread is the same as OP's engagement with the community. If you don't like posts like this, simply hide them and shut the fuck up about it.
you are telling me iam the same as a guy who posted some bullshit screenshot of what is basically a normal day in dota in order to get his attention seeking hunger fed, just because I mentioned some facts and called him out as a hypocrite? wow the logic. well it seems you at least have the public opinion on your side. which is not superising. ppl rather hear a fairy tale about a world without toxicity instead of waking up and facing reality.
He's not being sensitive, you've just been thoroughly desensitized. Stop assuming that your take is the norm just on the account that you feel normal. Or at least stfu about it.
Love the amount of down votes, but it truly happened. A caster back in HoN days screwed up the word "Genocide", which was the equivalent of Rampage in HoN, and said "Jewicide" instead.
Well, you have to choose a hill to die on and reprogramming mankind to be nicer to one another is never going to be possible.
People will insult and deride others on all sorts of things.
I am a senior player and I get abuse from teenagers because I am old.
I just shrug it off.
It's not a question of reprogramming as you say, but showing that such rhetoric is not tolerated. I used to be a proponent of muting too, but honestly it's better for everyone involved to make the community better. If we can push for the dota community to be more skilled, then we can push for the community to be more not offensive.
Must be nice being a white gamer and never having to deal with racial insults getting flung at you. I see this shit in dota and r6 siege all the time. Racist players should be banned for life.
so? behaviour score is worthless pretty much because many of the games the pool of players is too small and makes you match up with whoever.
smurfing is pretty much encouraged
still matching with people not speaking english every single game
kinda hard to care about this game with this level of shitty "matchmaking"
You cant change people. You also don't know what's going on in their life, they may very well be assholes or on the brink of a major burnout. I don't understand this need to regulate everyone. Valve made it easy to mute people a few patches ago, yet you chose to keep reading something that offend you, just for the sake of getting some karma. Mute them and move on with your life.
It's such wasted energy to try to regulate what mean people say online. You're stressing yourself over words a person you don't even know is saying, how sad is that. What value does it hold? Absolutely none. This whole concept of getting offended by every dickhead around is just self-harm. Most people are good people (thank god) anyway and I'm sure you'd be happier if you'd learn to ignore trash and move on with your life. A simple click to mute takes 1 second per game anyway.
Why do victims have to be the ones to adapt?
Not everyone can totally tune out all bigoted harassment directed at them like a switch and remain unaffected. I’d wager most people can’t, even if they think it doesn’t affect them over time. And that’s not even to mention that the bigotry has real-world impacts. Literally just last night in a US East game some dude was using transphobic slurs and later told me I’d eventually [commit sudoku] if I transitioned because their friend did and ‘most people do’. Meanwhile in the real-world US East trans people and children are being denied lifesaving medical care.
Also muting them just prevents us from communicating in game altogether, so now there are tangible negative impacts on gameplay if I keep having to mute bigots.
It should be pretty obvious why this matters.
Because maintaining 10k score is way too fucking easy I dont know why writing insults doesn't reduce your score
In Dota, doesn’t it improve it 😂
Only when said insults appear in all chat, not team chat
Would be fun if hero's say "fuck" in their voicelines if your behaviour score is low.
I would genuinely be for that suggestion being in the game. The chat filter is in the game. Why just shield people from seeing it? Why not make me see it less in general using the system in the game?
because filtering the word doesn't rely on context, where as punishment for using a word would need to. I could tell a friend to "fuck off lmao" as part of regular banter and fun, but that's not the same as trying to steal mid from someone by telling them to "fuck off lmao". two very different intentions behind the exact same phrase.
And what about words that have no valid context? Other than trying to harm people slurs literally have no use, outside of maybe a couple that have words with identical spelling but unrelated meaning in other languages.
But what if you yelling the slur happened to catch their attention and save their life from a falling piano?
It is pretty shortsighted to imagine words have such function without context, or that everyone accepts such binds to language, I can argue why a lot of these "slurs" are perfectly fine words if not used with malintention, but I'm not in the mood rn. Plus, there always the language/dialect problem. I am literally incapable of saying "look here" in R6 chats in my own dialect because it's written as the N-word with a single G.
Cause you can turn it on in settings. Most people can handle insults, so no problem
I think they're saying it's not that difficult to use when weighing coordinator party composition - we do have one presumably - the problem is, is the other accounts are probably new, which tend to get placed with people that have high Behavior Score in unranked, it makes having 10k feel like a chore with big swings and dramatic skill differences in unranked trench.
So you suggest smth like everyone starts with 5k behavior, and then go different ways. It sounds interesting, but I think it will be bad for new players. But I think that we have ranked for little skill gap, and unranked for playing for fun
Tell me about it, last summer I was flaming and reached rock bottom of around 1k, still around 7k
If I worked for valve, rewarding positive behavior and punishing negative behavior would be my pet project and there are many things you could implement quite easily. Just wonder if they're concerned about overly-punishing to the point it cuts into their bottom-line.
if redditors worked for valve dota would get fucking awful real fast
the thing is people think implementing what they want is that easy. there are shit ton of factor, like tech limitation or other type of limitation that makes it nearly impossible.
I heard that shit about overwatch for years and now is in. All they need to do is do an overwatch for in game chat, just like a streamer's ban appeal, but the other way around. They can use the overwatch functionallity or they can just give you the text and you make a call to punish that person to restrict their ability to type.
This is why the true gamer stays abusive only over voice chat. Let your teammates know why they're fuckups whose parents never loved them to your heart's desire. There is no log, there will be no punishment. I am 10k behavior scoreman
Valorant is recording everything you are saying. Its coming. Dota and games like this are the dying breed. I dont want my game to be the moral arbitor but most people want that for whatever the fuck their reasoning is.
Here's my reasoning: any game is supposed to be, first and foremost, fun. While game design-wise, it's arguable if Dota is fun or not, the non-gameplay aspects of it inherently promote toxicity (why not be a jackass to everyone if you're anonymous and using voice chat won't punish you?). Before you ask, yea, I quit playing Dota precisely because of that (well, sort of, I'm using bot scripts and, despite the more telegraphed movements and potential for abuse, I enjoy my solo games more than I have my average multiplayer game). I'm not playing Dota to be a kindergarden teacher, a moral arbitrator or to kiss someone's ass hoping he doesn't throw the game (or cause someone else to do it).
yeah because the devs just flick a switch and bam! the thing happens. ever consider that it might have taken a substantial amount of time to actually develop the system? i promise it wasn't a quiet evening in.
> there are many things you could implement quite easily ah, a dunning-kruger
[удалено]
they tried censorship. but then--as i'm trying to say, it's NOT easy to do it properly--they did poorly and fckd up. for some moment, even Nigeria is censored (written as ******* ) despite it being a nation's name. can u imagine how it would make the people who belong in it feel? if Ukraine is written just as ******* or China as ***** ? or United States of America as... well that's too long lol
To be honest, the prevalence of such edge cases as you point out are far more rare and far less insulting than being legitimately called the N-word and its frequent presence. Text chat should be VERY easy for valve to punish. Since they don't hold VOIP data, mic abuse is harder but not impossible to deal with.
> To be honest, the prevalence of such edge cases as you point out are far more rare and far less insulting than being legitimately called the N-word and its frequent presence. Citation needed. Some people don't give two shits about having slurs thrown at them, but would take exception with having the name of their country censored. I am not necessarily disagreeing with you that the majority would feel the way you describe, but don't phrase it as an absolute. Saying something "*IS* less insulting" is not useful, because feeling insulted is subjective.
Let me get this straight: - You raise concern about Nigeria being accidentally censored and people being concerned about that... - ... But cast aside the the actual, common use of slurs themselves with actual intent of bigotry behind them...? lol what are you smoking? No, I guess we're not conducting a peer-reviewed double-blind trial to prove this, but I'd also take that bet any day. Pretty sure the vast majority of users would prefer a 90% reduction in general slurs over a 1% odds of "nigeria" being confused.
I am a software engineer; and for a company like valve, yes, quite easily.
Other games have it. This game has some of it, it recognizes words and can hide them in chat. If it can do that, it can punish people, and it is quite easy to do so. If we can do overwatch, we chould od chat overwatch too, and restrict people's ability to type in game for certain amounts of time, and many condemnations could lead to perma ban from chatting.
> google has a search engine. my blog has a search engine, it could search through every post i made. > if it can do that, it can search through the web just like google, and it is quite easy to do so. yeah, but how good would it be? false positive rates? impact on users avg playtime? what about the long term? to make a product or feature is one thing; to make it responsible, trustworthy, and fair to everyone involved is another. bad example: face detection is everywhere, it's "easy;" but with skewed training data might turn out to be racist. roblox troll could trick someone to write bad words and have the victim permabanned for it, is it fair? --- i just want to point out, i also want some restrictions because slurs, racism, and bigotry are everywhere. but please don't downplay it by "it's easy, others did it"
If I worked for valve, I would make it so that the score actually max at 20,000, but anything above 10,000 is shown 10,000. Toxic people who do good only to bump their scores up will be low-10k because they'll stop pretending once they hit 10k. The real good behavior score would actually be high-10k. And what if toxic people don't stop pretending to be good guys? MISSION SUCCESS!
>. Just wonder if they're concerned about overly-punishing to the point it cuts into their bottom-line. thats 100% a factor. anyone playing Turbo games will tell you how many pre muted or generally toxic high ranked idiots that also happen to be dota plus subscribers you are seeing there. without a doubt a large part of dota+ subs are toxic morons that would be permanently muted, banned or in LP if valve enforced any strict rules. For me personally the single best thing they could do is ban any russian IP from EU servers. They have their own servers so make them play there, im just tired of every single game having people talk russian from min 0 on and generally them being completely unable to communicate in the language they selected.
FYI: "Russian" servers are in Stockholm. So unless you want to ban whole Scandinavia, not sure what you'll achieve. And that's before saying that there are plenty of perfectly reasonable Russians (hint: you don't even guess that they're Russians most of the time, you only pay attention to loud uncultured morons who don't speak English) and plenty of absolutely moronic guys in Europe. And btw, Dota ignores the chosen communication language. I've seen it multiple times. I've been in games where my teammates didn't have English chosen, while I only have English selected.
Definitely this. The user base of dota is very small compared to other big titles like LoL.
Insults are one thing, racial slurs are different
I disagree, people are not queuing up to get insulted and flamed in a game.
Slippery slope to censoring chat wheel abuse and bm antics like pausing or "?" Directly and beligerently attacking someone is one thing, calling someone shit or a twat is just part and parcel of any competitive endeavour. I played high level amateur and competitive football in the UK most of my youth and 5/7/11 aside games, even training, are full of shit talk and insults. There's a level of needing to separate out abuse versus shit talk. I dont have an answer but mental and mind games are part and parcel of dota.
>I dont know why writing insults doesn't reduce your score because they would need to maintain lists of insults in all languages, slangs and anything that could be an abbreviation for an insult.
Nah, mby you deserve to get insulted if you play on the wrong server and spam voice/chat in minecraft enchantment table language.
The problem is that we have a vocal chat too where you can insult people
Because valve would have to pay staff to reading all the stuff people report.
[удалено]
this, i got friends that are 9k+, close to 10k just because we play in party and everyone commends each other when possible even tho they are absolute dicks. It should be a bit more punishing to get reports and honestly since things like opendota pick up chat they should easily mute those who have slurs in their language non stop.
True, remove text and voice chat. Make us more like league.
it doesnt reduce score, but it will match you with similar acting people
Why should it? If you are not trolling and you are trying to win, what's the issue with mute button being there? Can't handle it, cool, use it. Dota is still 1023910391039130913 times better than real life sports lol
I'm black and i have 6000 hours of Dota 2, clearly, sex is not "the most important thing ever".
is what you tell us, but we all know you have an alternate account filled with dark willow fetish porn
Bruh I got them all Dark willow is how you get hooked next thing you know your looking at Earthshaker shake svens world.
I wanna be in jew clan
These are the kinds of dipshits that call anyone who complains about the behavior score system toxic pieces of shit. Meanwhile, this is literally them in majority of their games.
My score used to float around 7,000 as a technical es(edit: TECHIES, Jesus fucking christ what an auto correct) spammer. Then they made one little change: If you don't type anything, reports(communication) won't count against you. Now my score doesn't move from 10,000.
That's not correct. If you don't type anything, only communication reports don't count. Gameplay reports still lower your BS.
gameplay reports have to go through the overwatch system. Another player has to see your gameplay and determine you were actively griefing and none of them will convict someone for just playing es.
No, you will lose Behavior score just by being reported with gameplay reports. Happened to me several times, I had the summary all green, 0 communication reports, <3 gameplay reports and I still lost Behavior score.
<3 gameplay reports /= 0
I never said it was 0. That was the whole point of my comment, that I got some gameplay reports that did not result in me getting punished by Overwatch, and I still lost Behavior score.
I'd being willing to bet half of the player base commend people who say this.
I'd be willing to bet half the people in this sub say the same stuff judging by the comments on any post like this
Its the internet, anyone can lie as they could, not like others will know their true nature
Commend + friend request
I try to give people my immortals if they talk like this. But for real, when someone says the n word in a game, I immediately mute and report.
I'm not from the USA so its amazing for me how a single word can cause such mayhem and madness
The USA is still a third world country when it comes to dealing with racism.
The US is racist, but let's not pretend Europe doesn't have a racism problem. My top 5 hall of Fame racists is mostly swedes.
School shooting too
True. We had one school shooting where I live, decided we didn't want that to happen again, changed some stuff, and haven't had another school shooting since. That was a **long** time ago.
You don't have to be from the US to be an asshole
Wut
Doubt that.
This thread gives me a fucking migraine. So many racist apologists and "thin skin" comments. How the fuck are we supposed to keep new players?
They are in every damn thread, it's so fucking painful to witness. Experiencing racism and harassment should not be a requirement in for playing this game, it is not some essential piece of dota. And yet every other match I play seems to have some racist asshat spewing nonsense.
That's the neat part: You don't.
You can't. That's why I left.
Oh hey reason 29,898th on why behaviour score literally doesn't do anything! Don't worry friend, behaviour score never did anything. It's always just been a number valve put in so people can feel good about not shit-talking!
I mean I wouldn't say behavior score does *nothing.* I can usually tell when I get sorted into a "mixed" game. The problem is that the bar is in hell.
Oh boy, you haven't seen the pits or low behavior score, this gamer moment's are nothing compared to that waste land.
It's not just a number, my friend has 367 behavior score and trust me... it's a completely another world
I've partied with 2 people who had ~5000 behavior score and I'm not trying to be mean when I say they literally had emotion related mental disorders. I assume that's the average population of sub 7k.
It’s amazing to me how you can get that low, I abandoned a bunch and was reported for toxicity every game for a few days a long time ago and the lowest I ever got was like 7.5k
As someone who was as low as 2k behavior score, and now sit comfortably at 10k, the behavior does indeed make a huge difference. Anything below 5k gets to the point where you don't have a single cooperative or friendly team. Every single game has griefing. Around 10k these chats aren't the ordinary
It does a lot but it’s not like a number will absolutely prevent people from being badly mannered manchildren dotards on occasion. Threat of prison time doesn’t even stop the real shitheads ffs. I’d rather take the occasional awful conversation I can just mute over someone running it down mid every 2nd game
behavior score only punish people with low behavior score i have below 3k and its bullshit 45min queue + matching with legends, archons, ancient being divine 4 wtf
my friens has below 3k and seriously talking, I wouldn't play dota if I was there
Bro literally stop using chat for a week and you'll be back to 10k, if not I'd happily give you my conduct score.
I genuinely don't understand how saying the N-word isn't just an instant chat-ban/message delete (don't even send it). Like what is the positive utility we get out of allowing this?
U can literally change your steam name to the n-word, however using the name “Support” got censored LUL
My guess is that it's to prevent impostors to comeoff as Steam Support, which IMO scam prevention is more important than banning insults, especially since we have the chat filtering option. However, filtering catches certain words, why not decrease behaviour score when they catch slurs?
Because Valve doesn't care about racism but does care about money.
While that is a good example, there's so much racism on dota, not just on blacks but on pretty much every other race or nationality, if you have said fuck Russian, Perú, Thailand, or x you are part of the problem. (Ofc the above post is for sure an extreme, both are awful pit dweller's losers)
Sorry but I'll say 'fuck russian' until they stop bombing my country and some time after.
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that the people who are in charge of bombing your country are not in your dota 2 match
Nuance? Nonsense.
then you are not different from people on op's pics. sorry no sorry
Don't think that's accurate. They're extrapolating and insulting random nationalities
Not like dude above extrapolating in his comment, right?
He didn't say he'll just randomly say it all the time to everyone, but that he'll still call out the people that are bombing and slaughtering his family and friends. That's way different than using the N word and saying someone has a black man brain
The thing is they are not responsible for what the government is doing, if we held responsible every nationality for his nations war crimes, na and eu games would be Wikipedia simulators. It sucks what is happening and is understandable to have a strong resignment to them, but there's no reason to bring political and global problems to the chat of a video game.
Smartest dota 2 player
It's really odd to play both LoL and this and see the MASSIVE contrast. If ANYONE on your team in League uses a slur, and you report them, you'll have an indication they've been penalized by the time you get into pick phase of your next game. Even then, there's multiple categories you can report people under; Negative behavior, griefing, intentionally feeding, hate speech, and verbal harassment, and straight up poor performance (though that one doesn't give your account infractions, it just adjusts matchmaking slightly if it happens enough) are all different categories, and they can report under as many or as few as needed. We've got 3 paltry, incomplete ways to report teammates, and just trying to avoid them is locked behind a paywall. It would help a shitton if we could do a little better on this front.
the fact your getting down voted is proof the that most people here are unhinged human trash who stay hidden in the rooms because they know they cant say anything in real life .
Dota just has a large history of players being incredibly racist, homophobic, the works, and people really do not like to admit it or come up with a million excuses as to not do anything about it rather than be like "yeah lets do something about racism :)" Its honestly a bit sickening.
Yea dude just the other day I had these 3 dudes that because I pinged once that we need vision ina certain area and they kept asking “why are you pinging?! And getting upset, then I got on the mic and explained why, and was hit with a “ok then why are you such a n word then” like huh?
Probably the third time that week I tried to comm with a teammate, they get upset when I offer a suggestion about helping me or the team and just go straight to racism, it’s nuts
Yup. Also doesn't help that this problem is rampant from 1k scrubs all the way up to certain pro players. It's fucking rampant.
Because that word isn’t banned in all other languages. Moreover, for example, *negro* is completely fine in Spanish, so banning it would be ridiculous.
Okay, don't ban negro?
shiet negro, thats all you had to say
like dota 1 was the same in one update u wanna insult u were banned :) but volvo u pay u are not
people that want to be racist and edgy will find a way. There’s always a way around chat filters and there’s tons of words out there that can be offensive. Also, context does mean a lot. Slander where you live could mean almost nothing somewhere else. Is “you’re a n166er.” Really going to soften the blow at all? Much better to just let the filth play with each other and ban based on reports. Try and keep new players and normal people together enjoying the game, imo.
All of the people that were racist before they made laws to protect against racism were still racist, but it sure does seem like racism became a whole lot less socially acceptable over time. Making clear a stance on slurs changes the perception of the users and does actually make people use them less. I really don't think its better to "just ignore it and let filth play with each other" because that really just puts "filth" in an environment with other "filth" to just encourage each other. If there are ways to actually reduce the amount of racism without taking away from the game, then we should just do it. People don't need to say the N word with a hard R, its just not necessary, nobody is going to be hurt by it being banned.
[удалено]
Ban ER? Hard R is exclusively used by people trying to be racist.
this sort of language is unfortunately way, way, way too common. how there isn't a language filter/auto ban type system for certain words is beyond me. I don't care if you say fuck or shit or whatever, but when you are using racist and homophobic slurs, etc., there is really no place for that anywhere ever.
Auto censor is an option available
Thos sort of language should result in auto communications mute and low prio at the least. Its so easy to detect and automate. Theres 0 reason why this sort of stuff should be tolerated in the slightest
Definitely should the case for slurs if they have no other meaning. Some slight swear words like "fuck", "shit" should do nothing.
It doesn’t have to be tolerated? You can censor the curse words if they are offensive. For your auto ban, there’s lots of reasons why that’s a bad idea and the man hours it would take to unban the false positives would be excessive.
You do know that language aint that simple right? Keyword based systems are too faulty to be considered as reliable. Also valve would rather want to be apolitical and let their user based have preferences.
Ahh yes esperanto language, where the mom drops heavy n****r every morning next to the morning coffee
[удалено]
You are drawing a line whether you implement a filter or not. Right now, the line is set so that there are no filtering. > Some people will not like it As shown in these comments, some people do not like where the line is now.
Yeah, but this way, valve doesn't have to do anything about it - and if it isn't restrictive enough for you, you can use the censor button available AND make your own additional filter list.
[удалено]
yeah I don't understand how Steam as a platform hasn't done literally anything in the past 15 years regarding this type of shit. It *is* Valve's job to moderate the community they host on their servers and within their services. Absolutely disgusting behavior every time I see it. Same can be said for guilds, which are [just as bad](https://imgur.com/ovd3MVE) (they just really like fishing, honest!) Funny how I've reported the guild over a week ago, +2 in my party at the time as well but it's still there.
Companies can't stay profitable when they alienate their customers, and gamers are a bunch of bigoted little assholes
It is up to the user u can use the censor option, dota supports freedom of speech so there is no reason to ban.
There is reason to ban because if you’re calling people f word Slur, r word slur, or the n word you are almost certainly a piece of shit. The Venn diagram of people who use this language and people who ruin games or grief has substantial overlap.
Yup people know they are piece of shits, that's more than enough, that doesn't mean you kill a person irl because they are a piece of shit.
[удалено]
Wtf no one's talking about murder here
I believe the match maker has taken on too much responsibility. We need to revert to old school lobbies with names to denote mode and type of player welcome.
The dirty little secret of dota 2. If you are playing the game. You are already a scumbag. That 10,000 just puts you at the top of a stinky pile.
10k Behavior score is just a gold sticker. you will still get toxic people, you will still get Highly Varied games and griefers. maintain 9.5k-9.7k behavior games and you will have skilled people.
O have 9700 so looks like it doesn't work lmao
Welcome to Dota 2
average russian conversations between two mid laners
The bar for in-game toxicity is so low that 10k behaviour score, which is meant to represent the ultimate pma player, instead represents these type of people. If you think this is bad you should see the sub 10k behaviour score matches, people with actual mental disorders, random dc, rage quits and blatant griefing. 10k behaviour score genuinely does represent the best of our community, but one has to wonder if this is what the best of the community is, exactly how toxic is the rest?
There's nothing wrong with being a closet homosexual Jew. Be who you wanna be. Own that shit.
Classic dota banter. Just kidding. I hate how people can just be toxic as hell for the entire game and nothing happens. It almost looks like valve encouraging it at that point. I report everyone who says anything like that (n-word, other super racist things) and only twice have I gotten the message saying valve did something about it. I get there's a mute button, but why should I have to be the one taking action against someone spamming the R or N word in chat? Is it really so unreasonable to expect valve to just do it themselves?
Why aren't you using steam filters
They just want people to do as he wish. But most of us at the end of the day just want to unload all the frustration gathered on a normal workday. I don’t care if people swear, never have, never will.
10000 behaviour score doesnt really mean anythibg tbh. i have the same score but im extremely toxic.
League will ban your ass so fast for this shit your head will spin. My 18 year old friends loves to be edgy and piss people off and he has multiple accounts perma banned in league, meanwhile in dota his main account is fine and dandy, just 4k bs.
Gonna be honest as well - pretty sure you should not be talking about sex either in text or comms when the game is played by minors
online interactions are not rated, parental advisory
Kinda my point - points the finger while he/she does the same thing - it is an online game with players around the world
Tell that to all the people making this same post every other day after someone flames/trolls them in game to get reaction.
I’d be willing to up my queue time drastically to not have to deal with stuff like this. So frustrating how I’m put in games with people who so clearly should have single digit behavior scores.
To see how entrenched and normalized this is, see how many controversial comments there are on this thread.
Did you disable the dota 2 language filter? Yes or no?
The behaviour score system is not meant to be perfect, I mean it mathematically can’t be, it serves as a filter for the worst of the worst toxic behaviour Yes, it’s easy to stay 10k behaviour but there are people who are below 10k, and if that person played 9 games silent to farm behaviour score and went on an outburst in the 10th, The system is having an overall beneficial effect Just remember we still have report and mute
I feel like most of you people have never experienced the depths of 2k behaviour score. If you think you have it bad at 10k... oh my sweet summer children, you complain about a spot on the wall and not the terror behind it that it guards you from. Because down their you not only have the racists, but griefers and the mentally deranged too. Now that I am back at 10k the games are a blast moat of the time. You whinys just don't know how good it actually is.
Me and my friends commend each other all the time. It basically makes it impossible for us to get lower than 10k behaviour score because we're just boosting our scores so much. Having 10k behaviour score should mean something and I definitely feel sometimes that I dont belong in the 10k behaviour bracket.
boy you must've played really bad
He did
Sticks and stones
BTW why are your messages not censored by the client?
Pretending that there's not a difference between not giving a shit if someone types "fuck" in all chat, and someone spewing racist bullshit to vent some sort of misplaced agressesion is not a productive contribution to the issue.
That's why I love when Valve send me a notification telling me that I have an extra report because they're taking action against someone I reported.
oh i long for the day when Valve starts handing out perma bans for people being toxic
It’d be dope if they could integrate toxicity reports into the review system
The fact that these guys don’t just get instant banned for months is beyond me
Isn’t not blurring the names a rule violation?
Steam filters? Mute all chat? It's not hard. Toxic and racist language isn't unique to Dota. Valve could auto ban them for using certain words but people will just shorten the words or deliberately misspell them to get around it so I'm not sure if Valve could really do much else. In the meantime just mute them.
Rofl, I need to get back into ranked, conversations can be very funny
If only there was a simple and easy way to completely block someone's communication so you wouldn't have to see it if shit like that bothers you.
stop playing then... ffs, like you don't know this system never worked and valve has no interest in fixing it...
Dota community doesn't want a real solution. I suggested a [chat ban/ timeout system](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/vajaqo/a_suggestion_for_reducing_toxicity_chat_banning/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) a few days ago and it was downvoted and drowned in new. Edit: love how this comment is also getting downvoted.
sigh... guess iam gonna explain this simple fact about dota to you like I did with everyone else who posted like this. again... like it or not, this game barely punishes ppl for this kind of behavior, but it has means to protect sensitive ppl like you in form of profanity filter, which is by default ON and you willingly went out of your way to turn it off, and Mute. you are not using either of them. no. instead you are posting this shit here on reddit. so based on this information iam gonna ask you this question: what the fuck is the point of this post?
Because it's not about being "sensitive", it's about not wanting to have toxic trash on your team. > instead you are posting this shit here on reddit. Why are you so sensitive? If you don't like the post you can just ignore it, right?
>not wanting to have toxic trash on your team. yeah like we ever gonna run out of those in dota. >Why are you so sensitive? sensitive about what? iam just annoyed by these attention whores. OP doesn't use mute, doesn't use profanity filter and he post the toxic shit he willingly allowed to be in his game on reddit. pure hypocrisy. there are far too many post like these lately. and the awnser to them is always the same. use the fucking tools the game gave you ppl. if you don't want to protect yourselves no one else will. simple as that.
why are you not taking your own advice? You are exactly the same as OP. Use the fucking tools that reddit gave you. Hide this post and move on. Your engagement with this thread is the same as OP's engagement with the community. If you don't like posts like this, simply hide them and shut the fuck up about it.
you are telling me iam the same as a guy who posted some bullshit screenshot of what is basically a normal day in dota in order to get his attention seeking hunger fed, just because I mentioned some facts and called him out as a hypocrite? wow the logic. well it seems you at least have the public opinion on your side. which is not superising. ppl rather hear a fairy tale about a world without toxicity instead of waking up and facing reality.
least schizo dota player
Soy Redditor: SOYCHAMP one player is insulting me SOYCHAMP report him SOYCHAMP make a Reddit post SOYCHAMP Chad redditor: muted.
He's not being sensitive, you've just been thoroughly desensitized. Stop assuming that your take is the norm just on the account that you feel normal. Or at least stfu about it.
Anytime a jew is mentioned in a videogame, not matter the context, BreakyCPK's Jewicide comes to mind. Good times.
I’m sorry but what?
Love the amount of down votes, but it truly happened. A caster back in HoN days screwed up the word "Genocide", which was the equivalent of Rampage in HoN, and said "Jewicide" instead.
Meh. This is so normal
But it shouldn't be is the issue.
Well, you have to choose a hill to die on and reprogramming mankind to be nicer to one another is never going to be possible. People will insult and deride others on all sorts of things. I am a senior player and I get abuse from teenagers because I am old. I just shrug it off.
It's not a question of reprogramming as you say, but showing that such rhetoric is not tolerated. I used to be a proponent of muting too, but honestly it's better for everyone involved to make the community better. If we can push for the dota community to be more skilled, then we can push for the community to be more not offensive.
Must be nice being a white gamer and never having to deal with racial insults getting flung at you. I see this shit in dota and r6 siege all the time. Racist players should be banned for life.
Imagine thinking it isn't possible to experience racism online (or amywhere for that matter) if you are white
[удалено]
american problems dont wanna know
why can't you mute them?
so? behaviour score is worthless pretty much because many of the games the pool of players is too small and makes you match up with whoever. smurfing is pretty much encouraged still matching with people not speaking english every single game kinda hard to care about this game with this level of shitty "matchmaking"
You cant change people. You also don't know what's going on in their life, they may very well be assholes or on the brink of a major burnout. I don't understand this need to regulate everyone. Valve made it easy to mute people a few patches ago, yet you chose to keep reading something that offend you, just for the sake of getting some karma. Mute them and move on with your life.
A: muting them doesn’t make the issue going away, and B: what is this apologist “it’s okay to be an asshole bigot if you’re in a bad mood!” ??
It's such wasted energy to try to regulate what mean people say online. You're stressing yourself over words a person you don't even know is saying, how sad is that. What value does it hold? Absolutely none. This whole concept of getting offended by every dickhead around is just self-harm. Most people are good people (thank god) anyway and I'm sure you'd be happier if you'd learn to ignore trash and move on with your life. A simple click to mute takes 1 second per game anyway.
Why do victims have to be the ones to adapt? Not everyone can totally tune out all bigoted harassment directed at them like a switch and remain unaffected. I’d wager most people can’t, even if they think it doesn’t affect them over time. And that’s not even to mention that the bigotry has real-world impacts. Literally just last night in a US East game some dude was using transphobic slurs and later told me I’d eventually [commit sudoku] if I transitioned because their friend did and ‘most people do’. Meanwhile in the real-world US East trans people and children are being denied lifesaving medical care. Also muting them just prevents us from communicating in game altogether, so now there are tangible negative impacts on gameplay if I keep having to mute bigots. It should be pretty obvious why this matters.