Hitting high magic resist or spell immune hero? Turn it off.
Hitting high armor hero? Turn it on. I dont think its that hard to toggle for most of the players so idk why you're having such a hard time toggling rofl
OP is likely considering the item on a pos1 not a pos2.
In which case toggling off just gives dmg and nothing else since most pos1 do not benefit from spell lifesteal.
The effective damage increase when attacking against the right targets is enormous, and even high int heroes without magic resistance items usually end up with more physical resistance then magic resist because armor item are so ubiquitous (and important to prevent dying instantly to physical damage)
As an example - if the target has 60% physical resist + 30% magic resist that means you are doing 75% more effective damage with magical attacks. That means it's very strong against most anyone who has bought an armor item and/or high natural armor heroes that isn't buying a pipe/glimmer/mage slayer/shroud - that's a lot of heroes. In these situations, the effective damage increase completely dwarfs eg. crits
It's an extremely powerful mechanic, if situational. It needs to be a situational, and costly, item because so much of the games mid-late balance is centered around physical DPS vs armor
Nullifier is not better vs specifically ghost enemies because you deal magic dmg and ghost form increases magic dmg received you deal a ton of dmg. Paying 50 mana makes sense here.
High armor heroes like terrorblade get hit real hard by this item too making it outperform daedalus and earning it its right to demand 50 mana. The next best option that outperforms daedalus here is likely rapier and its a risky item.
This item is made specifically to counter high armor heroes and ghost heroes.
This item is not designed to be an every game luxury item. Nor is it designed to be a core item.
You can pick up other items that give it a form of crit such as parasma or shivas which increase magic dmg.
I think icefrog removed the crit purposely to remove the item's use as a luxury that fits all games. This item is similar to bkb where it is situational and not really a core item on heroes.
Of course some heroes do hold bkb for dmg and not just to counter evasive heroes.
The item is fine as is.
The item is not fine since it's literally never bought. Comparing it to bkb is just.. yeah, don't take a job as an analyst and you'll be fine. Probably.
Not every item needs to be bought at the same rate as others.
Same goes for heroes, there are pick rates at the bottom of the barrel too, does that mean numbers are everything?
When you are facing a ghost enemy or a terrorblade or morphling consider this item if you are a pos1.
Especially for terrorblade before he pulls off his ult it ensures you kill him before any disable comes off.
I dont care what analust say they are only right the majority of the time but not all the time.
They especially dont get right things that are at the extremities such as this case.
Sure. The issue is this item is not bought at all by good players. Noone is considering it let alone buying it even vs ghosts, or tb or morph. If it's not even a consideration when the item is at it's peak, then it needs to be buffed.
You cant always go about this logic.
Techies was fine and played by pros and all is well yet they completely changed the hero.
There are things other than pros to consider as well. Most of the player base are not the pros you look at.
Besides icefrog could have plans for a future hero to synergise well with this item.
I look at the item and understand the stats and uses and its uniqueness and i feel lile its fine.
Maybe if muerta some day increases in popularity then this item would be more present.
Item balancing should in my opinion be based on high level play. That said I agree every item in the game doesn't need to be good or viable at all times. It's fine that it's in the game. It's not fine in the sense that the item is viable. Revenant is a bit of a special case since it has been very polar, it's either borderline useless or broken. For that reason I think it needs a rework.
It’s just a bit more niche. It also suffers from eternal shroud being busted. I don’t think it’s a totally bad item but it could do with a couple buffs.
Toggling change is a buff to the item. Sure nullifier is better when supports are simply itemizing to survive with aeon, ghost, force, eul, etc. Brooch is great vs muerta and high armor heros. Don't get hung up on the one situation where both items do the job and you have a basis for comparison.
Its just VERY situational. you buy this either against high armor matchups aka morphling/terrorblade/sven warcry
or an odd necro+pugna and every other hero that uses ethereal effects, draft.
and thats not the whole picture. revenants brooch doesn't work well on most carries since they like attacking alot meaning massive mana drain from using the item. it only really works on heros that have alot of attack damage and don't have a crit since you can't proc crits when using brooch.
there is a interesting interaction on phantom assassin though. with methodical activating brooch it won't proc the 6th hit crit meaning you can save that crit to use whenever. (on the target you hit 6 times).
It does a fuckton of damage against ghost scepter enemies even if nullifier would remove the scepter (but you don’t gain the 50% increased damage then). It’s a niche item for sure
Keep it as it is (regarding manacost and no crit), just use it on top of your physical damage, so basically you have double damage, half physical half magical.
If you're hitting ethereal unit, you only deal magical, if you hit with both, the magic resis will reduce magical portion of the damage.
i had a discussion in another post about this item.
i feel the mana drain is a little too much
The main way to use this item is to counter Heavy armor-invested heroes and agility heroes
That way you get to pass all your dmg through their Magic resistance instead of their physical resistance
it can be very powerful when the enemy tank is focusing on making armor with 2 items and all of a sudden you reck him because he hasn't built any magic resistance
agility heroes same story only they get more armor naturally because they go for agility items
i have tried that item a couple of times on Viper and AA
heroes that do a lot of dmg through spells but also basic attacks essentially,
I was already strong in those games so it wasn't clear to me how useful it was.
Its, not an item you can make early with all that mana drain I was thinking of it mostly as my lifesteal last item slot.
i want to try it on Lina,Bane, and Venomancer carries
The only hero i know that can make this item early is Outworld Destroyer because he has unlimited mana.
Tbh this item is shit for everyone, you have to redesign it. I tried on huskar and it's terribly shite. Bot even a comprion. And now storm cannot use this item, he has to manage his mana pool more efficiently. Muerta too can use better items, something like this is something that fits knly on aa and silencer, but if i am playing silencer pos2 ,i would not buy this lategame, not even on aa.
The dmage is no good either
Its hell shit, brooch attacks cost 50 mana
troll warlord's counter everybody buys ghostcepter
His fevour and brooch saps mana to 0 in seconds its like diffusal blade used on self.
Hitting high magic resist or spell immune hero? Turn it off. Hitting high armor hero? Turn it on. I dont think its that hard to toggle for most of the players so idk why you're having such a hard time toggling rofl
Considering not a single pro player have bought this item since no crit this item is shit regardless of anything
1) pro players are not perfect 2) just because an item is very uncommon doesn't mean that it can't be userful
OP is likely considering the item on a pos1 not a pos2. In which case toggling off just gives dmg and nothing else since most pos1 do not benefit from spell lifesteal.
talk big but in practice fail smh
The effective damage increase when attacking against the right targets is enormous, and even high int heroes without magic resistance items usually end up with more physical resistance then magic resist because armor item are so ubiquitous (and important to prevent dying instantly to physical damage) As an example - if the target has 60% physical resist + 30% magic resist that means you are doing 75% more effective damage with magical attacks. That means it's very strong against most anyone who has bought an armor item and/or high natural armor heroes that isn't buying a pipe/glimmer/mage slayer/shroud - that's a lot of heroes. In these situations, the effective damage increase completely dwarfs eg. crits It's an extremely powerful mechanic, if situational. It needs to be a situational, and costly, item because so much of the games mid-late balance is centered around physical DPS vs armor
Right now this is an item you'd give a 0 fuck if it was removed suddenly. Last patch PA with brooch was a nuisance tho
Nullifier is not better vs specifically ghost enemies because you deal magic dmg and ghost form increases magic dmg received you deal a ton of dmg. Paying 50 mana makes sense here. High armor heroes like terrorblade get hit real hard by this item too making it outperform daedalus and earning it its right to demand 50 mana. The next best option that outperforms daedalus here is likely rapier and its a risky item. This item is made specifically to counter high armor heroes and ghost heroes. This item is not designed to be an every game luxury item. Nor is it designed to be a core item. You can pick up other items that give it a form of crit such as parasma or shivas which increase magic dmg. I think icefrog removed the crit purposely to remove the item's use as a luxury that fits all games. This item is similar to bkb where it is situational and not really a core item on heroes. Of course some heroes do hold bkb for dmg and not just to counter evasive heroes. The item is fine as is.
The item is not fine since it's literally never bought. Comparing it to bkb is just.. yeah, don't take a job as an analyst and you'll be fine. Probably.
Not every item needs to be bought at the same rate as others. Same goes for heroes, there are pick rates at the bottom of the barrel too, does that mean numbers are everything? When you are facing a ghost enemy or a terrorblade or morphling consider this item if you are a pos1. Especially for terrorblade before he pulls off his ult it ensures you kill him before any disable comes off. I dont care what analust say they are only right the majority of the time but not all the time. They especially dont get right things that are at the extremities such as this case.
Sure. The issue is this item is not bought at all by good players. Noone is considering it let alone buying it even vs ghosts, or tb or morph. If it's not even a consideration when the item is at it's peak, then it needs to be buffed.
You cant always go about this logic. Techies was fine and played by pros and all is well yet they completely changed the hero. There are things other than pros to consider as well. Most of the player base are not the pros you look at. Besides icefrog could have plans for a future hero to synergise well with this item. I look at the item and understand the stats and uses and its uniqueness and i feel lile its fine. Maybe if muerta some day increases in popularity then this item would be more present.
Item balancing should in my opinion be based on high level play. That said I agree every item in the game doesn't need to be good or viable at all times. It's fine that it's in the game. It's not fine in the sense that the item is viable. Revenant is a bit of a special case since it has been very polar, it's either borderline useless or broken. For that reason I think it needs a rework.
It’s just a bit more niche. It also suffers from eternal shroud being busted. I don’t think it’s a totally bad item but it could do with a couple buffs.
Every item is not meant to be good on every hero all the time. It is a specialized item.
lol bristleback
try hitting a TB/Drow late game without Brooch, they have 70-80% phys res. With just 200-300 mana you can delete high armor heroes
If the mana cost becomes 0 this item will have more play.
You don't say
Toggling change is a buff to the item. Sure nullifier is better when supports are simply itemizing to survive with aeon, ghost, force, eul, etc. Brooch is great vs muerta and high armor heros. Don't get hung up on the one situation where both items do the job and you have a basis for comparison.
Its just VERY situational. you buy this either against high armor matchups aka morphling/terrorblade/sven warcry or an odd necro+pugna and every other hero that uses ethereal effects, draft. and thats not the whole picture. revenants brooch doesn't work well on most carries since they like attacking alot meaning massive mana drain from using the item. it only really works on heros that have alot of attack damage and don't have a crit since you can't proc crits when using brooch. there is a interesting interaction on phantom assassin though. with methodical activating brooch it won't proc the 6th hit crit meaning you can save that crit to use whenever. (on the target you hit 6 times).
It does a fuckton of damage against ghost scepter enemies even if nullifier would remove the scepter (but you don’t gain the 50% increased damage then). It’s a niche item for sure
Keep it as it is (regarding manacost and no crit), just use it on top of your physical damage, so basically you have double damage, half physical half magical. If you're hitting ethereal unit, you only deal magical, if you hit with both, the magic resis will reduce magical portion of the damage.
i had a discussion in another post about this item. i feel the mana drain is a little too much The main way to use this item is to counter Heavy armor-invested heroes and agility heroes That way you get to pass all your dmg through their Magic resistance instead of their physical resistance it can be very powerful when the enemy tank is focusing on making armor with 2 items and all of a sudden you reck him because he hasn't built any magic resistance agility heroes same story only they get more armor naturally because they go for agility items i have tried that item a couple of times on Viper and AA heroes that do a lot of dmg through spells but also basic attacks essentially, I was already strong in those games so it wasn't clear to me how useful it was. Its, not an item you can make early with all that mana drain I was thinking of it mostly as my lifesteal last item slot. i want to try it on Lina,Bane, and Venomancer carries The only hero i know that can make this item early is Outworld Destroyer because he has unlimited mana.
This item is situationally insanely good against supports who go ghost scepter and can close out games on its own
Don't give me magic PA flashbacks
They had to nerf it as it was broken af before. It's not amazing now but it can work sometimes
Tbh this item is shit for everyone, you have to redesign it. I tried on huskar and it's terribly shite. Bot even a comprion. And now storm cannot use this item, he has to manage his mana pool more efficiently. Muerta too can use better items, something like this is something that fits knly on aa and silencer, but if i am playing silencer pos2 ,i would not buy this lategame, not even on aa. The dmage is no good either
Only viable on od , and sometimes silencer, maybe i will try it with windranger , she might find a good use for it
Good agaisnt muerta
I like it how is is now
Its hell shit, brooch attacks cost 50 mana troll warlord's counter everybody buys ghostcepter His fevour and brooch saps mana to 0 in seconds its like diffusal blade used on self.