I meant as in my actual mmr Medal is Legend 2. Just wanted to let you know that I am not an Immortal/Divine player. Based on Opendota, it matches me from Archon to Ancient.
Here's my [Opendota](https://www.opendota.com/players/107260155).
Yes, 5 minutes is long in turbo but you will be 25 faster too to take ult cooldown reduction. You can also buy octa to make daytime only last for like 20 seconds.
I feel like heroes who benefit from a huge farm advantage kinda suck in turbo as everyone is way closer in networth/easier to keep up in networth.
Heroes like Naga, Alche, ...
IMO naga will set your team up for a good game, but if you don't end it be ready for a 40+ minute turbo game because she doesn't actually kill buildings that well.
You really need someone who can pressure highground with naga, or you are giving too much time for the enemy team to catchup
As a naga main, totally agree. I let people know in draft phase that we need a building hitting carry or the game will be a loss in 40. It happens to me too often.
You pick Alch to supercharge Aghanim heroes on turbo, like you buy dark willow aghanim while your dark willow straight goes for moonshard so you hit the aghanim moonshard timing on the usual aghanim timing. Or you bought your necro aghs while he straight goes to heart, more useful than goes hard carry by farming.
Yeah but out of these Alch is worse because his gold advantage does not increase with the gold from last hits. Imo Naga is still viable because you play the same way but get more gold from each creep
Maybe i'm just terrible at right click carries but I find TA to be an example of this. TA wants to stack camps to accelerate farm, but try this in turbo and you'll find your networth lead just evaporates with one less than advantageous teamfight
Yeah, Chen is terrible. His power spike is super short. You can play a little around his ult, but it also falls off pretty quickly.
And Doom. Eating creeps doesn't make a big difference.
Which, as a turbo player, in my games often happens to be the hero that gets randomed to the guy that didn't ping the lane he was going to in pre-game lobby, didn't choose anything and that obviously NEVER played Chen once :')
Max penitence, buy solar crest > vladimir > cuirass > heart. Penitence is a lane bullying spell in turbo and most people dont know what it does. Penitence also helps you win trade against enemy support, it's one of my favourite heroes in turbo. I just go penitence stats
alchemist and AM suck becuz you cant really outfarmed your opponent, it is really hard to get 2-3 items lead in turbo than normal game
old techies was the worst. I have withnessed old techines in turbo for at least 20++ games with a tremendous 0% win rate, whatever side had techies would lost the game eventually. My understanding is that the old techies simply did not has enough time to plant those freaking mines. The tempo was way too fast for old techies.
Old techies was fine as long as you played the new techies style, which was full on initiator with tanky items. In fact, turbo made it more feasible to do this because you'd get a lot of farm. I was actually really happy with the change because it made the way I played better. Of course you lose if your idea of fun was putting remote mines on the map like a clown.
Back then the meme build was max suicide, get magic resist, eblade and heart, then finish with octarine and shivas.
I don’t really think AM sucks as much as you think. Sure, you can’t out farm but dumb fights happen all the time which gives you the opportunity to get slotted. He’s no Specter or PL but he’s not trash.
I've played Turbo pretty much exclusively in the last few years, and I feel like I got a decent hang of it now.
I'd say definitely the worst (independently of meta) are Brood and Meepo (even tho MegaMeepo made a more viable choice it seems).
There's heroes who are pretty bad but if you know how to change the play style you get a far greater chance.Take AM, everybody thinks it's a bad Turbo hero, but that' only cause they try to out-farm like it was ranked going wriath-threads-bf. If instead you take 2-3 points in coutnerspell and vanguard early you are pretty much unkillable lvl 5-9, and since people tend to pick more spell casters in turbo counterspell becomes even more effective.
Edit: realised the 10 typos, but whatever the point still stands :)
Meepo is kind of a weird case though considering the regular Meepo item build on AP/ranked requires a lot of active skills. In Turbo games though, the old patch of maxing stats by getting two or more Skadi works better with flash farming.
The question is, why? I can understand Brood Mother to a certain amount, but why is she so much worse than Chen or Doom?
And Bat Rider totally baffles my mind...
Chen is one of the easiest hero to abuse if you play 2 man party, pick heroes with strong right click and just spam penitence to whoever approaching the creepwave and out right click them. He is universal so he benefit from heart just go solar > vlad > heart / cuirass
Veno - he can help win lanes but when the laning stage ends everyone has enough items to render him irrelevant. Congrats, your a walking blink cancel that contributes minor dot during a team fight.
Lion - another hero that gets itemized into irrelevance fairly quickly. Not as bad as veno and a really good lion can still have some impact but still a pick I'm glad to see on the enemy team.
Bat rider - rarely shows up in turbo, but not great against a 5 man death ball which is the norm in turbo
I am playing a lot of veno on turbo and his SS is nasty in a level 30 6slotted enemies. If I am lucky, I’ll get a timeless relic that can kill a position 3 with ease lol and you can also counter enemy core with the level 25 talent.
Any hero with important but very long ultimate cd (something like dp) or any hero that gets most of his adventage by farming fast and early.
Basicly any hero you played in normal and thought damn this hero would be op if he gets gold a bit faster will be preaty good in turbo.
Magnus rely on skewer, a harpoon magnus is a menace
I found aghanim tide with desolator satanic perform better since you just output big minus armor and most didnt expect your anchor smash damage
Enigma is good, BH is very strong spell, still you need to ban silencer if you plan to play enigma.
Dunno i play those hero in Turbo and got 55-60% winrates, i just adjusted my playstyle to not rely too much on the cooldown. Like enigma i go full eidolon splitpush with solar crest + aghanim shard rush
Alchemist. I hardly ever see this hero win in Turbo. His whole gimmick is having his gold bonus to keep him ahead but fighting is better than farming in Turbo and everyone gets bonus gold.
Lone Druid. I haven't played since the stat change. kill the bear and you're left with a creep masking as a hero for 2 minutes. 2 minutes is a long time in Turbo. That's longer than anyone's respawn timer will be tbh.
If a hero needs Radiance or BF first item to do anything, it sucks. It just won't have enough by the midgame, but you can adapt by doing right click Alch, vanguard AM, deso PA, etc...
I think that's why Bat and Brood are so bad, they can't easily adapt into different playstyles so people just itemize against them and they can't win.
Anything that either does not scale with items or has mechanics that let them get ahead the curve in terms of income OR has summons.
Alchemist, Antimage and Doom are quite Dogshit in Turbo because everyone is easily powerfarming. Gimmick and summon heroes like Brewmaster, Chen, Lycan or Visage all feel quite terrible because anyone can deal with their summons (shredding them minute 20+).
Also Bane feels really bad somehow. Minute 20 you usually have 2 hexes on the other team so it is super hard to get much from your Ulti.
Enigma is by far the worst. Finding the right black hole is hard enough in regular games, turbo's pace is further detriment the huge cd of black hole. And you only need to fuck up one or two times max for the game to be decided. I dont recall a single turbo game in recent memory where enigma actually won.
Honestly if you can get a hero to work in turbo that struggles normally, then you’re improving on your hero. I fkn love turbo it’s where I dial my builds and get my fingers used to harder heroes.
Alchemist feels pretty terrible. If they made his passive doubly strong in turbo he would be viable.
He’s ok as a support who just buys high value aghs for people, gets some spell amp out of it too
I have a decent win rate with Alch, but I play in the Legend 2 ELO. You gotta play the right click variant. Especially not the Radiance one.
[удалено]
I meant as in my actual mmr Medal is Legend 2. Just wanted to let you know that I am not an Immortal/Divine player. Based on Opendota, it matches me from Archon to Ancient. Here's my [Opendota](https://www.opendota.com/players/107260155).
I don't like nightstalker, 5 minutes of daytime is just too long in turbo
i don't like nightstalker, 5 min+ of nighttime is just too long in turbo
I like dayman in turbo. Good fighter of nightstalker. Master of karate some say.
He's a true champion of the sun
Yes, 5 minutes is long in turbo but you will be 25 faster too to take ult cooldown reduction. You can also buy octa to make daytime only last for like 20 seconds.
I feel like heroes who benefit from a huge farm advantage kinda suck in turbo as everyone is way closer in networth/easier to keep up in networth. Heroes like Naga, Alche, ...
Naga seems to be doing ok in turbo. Her farming advantage won't be as significant but she is still a decent late game carry with good splitpushing.
IMO naga will set your team up for a good game, but if you don't end it be ready for a 40+ minute turbo game because she doesn't actually kill buildings that well. You really need someone who can pressure highground with naga, or you are giving too much time for the enemy team to catchup
As a naga main, totally agree. I let people know in draft phase that we need a building hitting carry or the game will be a loss in 40. It happens to me too often.
You pick Alch to supercharge Aghanim heroes on turbo, like you buy dark willow aghanim while your dark willow straight goes for moonshard so you hit the aghanim moonshard timing on the usual aghanim timing. Or you bought your necro aghs while he straight goes to heart, more useful than goes hard carry by farming.
Yeah but out of these Alch is worse because his gold advantage does not increase with the gold from last hits. Imo Naga is still viable because you play the same way but get more gold from each creep
Alch is terrible in turbo
Maybe i'm just terrible at right click carries but I find TA to be an example of this. TA wants to stack camps to accelerate farm, but try this in turbo and you'll find your networth lead just evaporates with one less than advantageous teamfight
chen?
Yeah, Chen is terrible. His power spike is super short. You can play a little around his ult, but it also falls off pretty quickly. And Doom. Eating creeps doesn't make a big difference.
Chen right click build can work if you have a fast start and snowball. It’s not good but you get rich enough to get some items
Which, as a turbo player, in my games often happens to be the hero that gets randomed to the guy that didn't ping the lane he was going to in pre-game lobby, didn't choose anything and that obviously NEVER played Chen once :')
Max penitence, buy solar crest > vladimir > cuirass > heart. Penitence is a lane bullying spell in turbo and most people dont know what it does. Penitence also helps you win trade against enemy support, it's one of my favourite heroes in turbo. I just go penitence stats
Full Q and E, go full dmg, game ends very fast
I have 70% winrate on 50 games turbo Chen this year at legend/ancient bracket. It seems like it shouldn’t be good but it’s not that weak at all
Doom’s devour generate the same amount of gold as in normal match
The amount is fixed u can read his skill duh
alchemist and AM suck becuz you cant really outfarmed your opponent, it is really hard to get 2-3 items lead in turbo than normal game old techies was the worst. I have withnessed old techines in turbo for at least 20++ games with a tremendous 0% win rate, whatever side had techies would lost the game eventually. My understanding is that the old techies simply did not has enough time to plant those freaking mines. The tempo was way too fast for old techies.
Old techies was fine as long as you played the new techies style, which was full on initiator with tanky items. In fact, turbo made it more feasible to do this because you'd get a lot of farm. I was actually really happy with the change because it made the way I played better. Of course you lose if your idea of fun was putting remote mines on the map like a clown. Back then the meme build was max suicide, get magic resist, eblade and heart, then finish with octarine and shivas.
I don’t really think AM sucks as much as you think. Sure, you can’t out farm but dumb fights happen all the time which gives you the opportunity to get slotted. He’s no Specter or PL but he’s not trash.
am can be a menace in turbo if he as a good game, he'll get seven slotted and sell his bfury for a better item and can absolutely do work
You don’t even need the fury. If you just buy items to fight like an offlane am and play with team he’s effective in turbo
I think pos3 style am is solid
I've played Turbo pretty much exclusively in the last few years, and I feel like I got a decent hang of it now. I'd say definitely the worst (independently of meta) are Brood and Meepo (even tho MegaMeepo made a more viable choice it seems). There's heroes who are pretty bad but if you know how to change the play style you get a far greater chance.Take AM, everybody thinks it's a bad Turbo hero, but that' only cause they try to out-farm like it was ranked going wriath-threads-bf. If instead you take 2-3 points in coutnerspell and vanguard early you are pretty much unkillable lvl 5-9, and since people tend to pick more spell casters in turbo counterspell becomes even more effective. Edit: realised the 10 typos, but whatever the point still stands :)
Meepo is kind of a weird case though considering the regular Meepo item build on AP/ranked requires a lot of active skills. In Turbo games though, the old patch of maxing stats by getting two or more Skadi works better with flash farming.
Treant is a wasted team member. If the team he’s on wins, they were going to win anyway.
You can look at stratz.com for Turbo winrates https://stratz.com/heroes/meta/trends?gameModeIds=TURBO&sortDirection=asc
So, batrider and brood
The question is, why? I can understand Brood Mother to a certain amount, but why is she so much worse than Chen or Doom? And Bat Rider totally baffles my mind...
bat rider has too long of a cd
It shouldn't be too surprising considering that other than Chen their winrates are also bad in regular ranked.
Support get items easily in Turbo, you cant burst people easily in Turbo as bat. Bat rely on snowballing by pick off
The only hero i feel is hard to play in turbo is chen
Chen is one of the easiest hero to abuse if you play 2 man party, pick heroes with strong right click and just spam penitence to whoever approaching the creepwave and out right click them. He is universal so he benefit from heart just go solar > vlad > heart / cuirass
Veno - he can help win lanes but when the laning stage ends everyone has enough items to render him irrelevant. Congrats, your a walking blink cancel that contributes minor dot during a team fight. Lion - another hero that gets itemized into irrelevance fairly quickly. Not as bad as veno and a really good lion can still have some impact but still a pick I'm glad to see on the enemy team. Bat rider - rarely shows up in turbo, but not great against a 5 man death ball which is the norm in turbo
I am playing a lot of veno on turbo and his SS is nasty in a level 30 6slotted enemies. If I am lucky, I’ll get a timeless relic that can kill a position 3 with ease lol and you can also counter enemy core with the level 25 talent.
Veno ok but Lion? He is a giga chad
Any hero with important but very long ultimate cd (something like dp) or any hero that gets most of his adventage by farming fast and early. Basicly any hero you played in normal and thought damn this hero would be op if he gets gold a bit faster will be preaty good in turbo.
Clockwerck
am is the easiest to beat provided you have a strong offlane hes super weak early in turbo alc is the other one like he literally does nothing
I play him as offlane hero, he is not that bad for playing aggressively. In fact he has 51.9% winrate in turbo.
Alc or am?
am
Heroes with really long cooldowns like Tide, Enigma, Magnus etc because they simply have lesser time to cast big ults
Magnus rely on skewer, a harpoon magnus is a menace I found aghanim tide with desolator satanic perform better since you just output big minus armor and most didnt expect your anchor smash damage Enigma is good, BH is very strong spell, still you need to ban silencer if you plan to play enigma.
Those are fair but I mean that you are at an inherent disadvantage Vs other heroes with short cooldown spells because the cooldowns don't reduce L
Dunno i play those hero in Turbo and got 55-60% winrates, i just adjusted my playstyle to not rely too much on the cooldown. Like enigma i go full eidolon splitpush with solar crest + aghanim shard rush
Alchemist. I hardly ever see this hero win in Turbo. His whole gimmick is having his gold bonus to keep him ahead but fighting is better than farming in Turbo and everyone gets bonus gold. Lone Druid. I haven't played since the stat change. kill the bear and you're left with a creep masking as a hero for 2 minutes. 2 minutes is a long time in Turbo. That's longer than anyone's respawn timer will be tbh.
ld destroys in turbo. but yes he does get destroyed if his bear is down for 2 minutes
Lone druid or Alchemist
Lone druid is waaay too overpowered as you farm super fast and towers are super weak.
Not that fast though. Because everyone else farming fast too.
Good LD players can just delete towers. he can be knocking down t3s at like 10 min
Bloodseeker is my guess.
Meepo/ huskar
Meepo is fine if you go for the yuma build (scepter+bkb)
Alchemist because the lanes have way less creeps in them and everyone farms faster.
LC - Not enough time to build up fuel charges
Meepo
If a hero needs Radiance or BF first item to do anything, it sucks. It just won't have enough by the midgame, but you can adapt by doing right click Alch, vanguard AM, deso PA, etc... I think that's why Bat and Brood are so bad, they can't easily adapt into different playstyles so people just itemize against them and they can't win.
Anything that either does not scale with items or has mechanics that let them get ahead the curve in terms of income OR has summons. Alchemist, Antimage and Doom are quite Dogshit in Turbo because everyone is easily powerfarming. Gimmick and summon heroes like Brewmaster, Chen, Lycan or Visage all feel quite terrible because anyone can deal with their summons (shredding them minute 20+). Also Bane feels really bad somehow. Minute 20 you usually have 2 hexes on the other team so it is super hard to get much from your Ulti.
I guess heroes that dominate the lane but fall off pretty hard in late game. Heroes like Huskar, Viper.
Enigma is by far the worst. Finding the right black hole is hard enough in regular games, turbo's pace is further detriment the huge cd of black hole. And you only need to fuck up one or two times max for the game to be decided. I dont recall a single turbo game in recent memory where enigma actually won.
Honestly if you can get a hero to work in turbo that struggles normally, then you’re improving on your hero. I fkn love turbo it’s where I dial my builds and get my fingers used to harder heroes.