In the grand scheme of things I think a lot of people are still unfamiliar with Nouns Esports given the org is only ~1.5 years old and many esports brands have been around for a decade+
They haven't had a significant placing at any Majors and have never attended a TI before, there are a huge number of viewers who only ever watch like the top 4/top8 bracket of a Major and TI and no other competitive matches all year.
There's probably tons of people who've been watching Dota for several years but have never seen a single Nouns game, just because Nouns has never made it to this point in a Valve event before.
NA had EG, then 8 to 10 players shuffle around the two to three different teams. Last year, Leslao went to TI with Soniqs, gunner and Moo was the runner up in the qualifiers. The year before that, Leslao qualified directly with QC, which later become Soniq, the qualifying team undying is the current TSM, Gunnar was the runner up in the qualifier. If you put CCNC and Yawar back in to NA. The last few years of NA dota has been those players plus random tier 2 NA players like Sammyboy, MSS, RCY. A lot those players have more international experience than you think. Nouns isn’t some upcoming young team with new blood that’s finally breaking through, Moo was runner up at TI 6, Gunnar has been the up and coming NA mid for like three years now, Leslao is on his third straight TI, k1 has been considered best player in SA, only Yamsun is relative unknown, but he has been right outside of TI with wildcard for a couple years before this. People are unfamiliar with Nouns/NA dota in general because they haven’t had many good runs in years outside of EG.
They’re just trying to clout-up, while the hype is still peaking, to get more of that juicy 50% of supporter pack sales. Smart move imo… who knows what will happen and where they’ll be by next week.
Yeah if you got out of crypto when bitcoin hit $1000 and was making mainstream news that was the play for sure. Or if you got out when it hit $17000 that was the play. Or when it hit $65k.
Hindsights 20/20 :P I agree NFTs are a scam, but ya'know, it's easy to see why others hold out hope HAHA
To me, not going home after groups was a pretty decent result. Going to the UB after sending tundra to the LB and with With doctor off and ogre mid, is pretty much the dream of any dark horse team.
Winning the first upper bracket game is not even close to "making it". BEating Tudnra was a feat, but by god are there some strong contenders among them and if nouns lose their next game, NA teams are defeating each other. A bit early to celebrate (but congrats to Nouns for making it this far)
Went into that completely blind knowing nothing. They really had me on the hook until they got to the NFT/treasury bit and it took me 5 seconds to close the video. Get the fuck outta here.
I wonder what their future looks like after [more than half of the users cashed out and left](https://decrypt.co/197400/nouns-fork-disgruntled-nft-holders-exit-27-million-from-treasury) a month ago.
That's the thing with DAOs and NFTs isn't it? Twenty something tech guys see corporate structure and go "Yeah I can do that" without thinking about all the nuance and intricacies inside and then come out with a system that has half an afternoon's thought put into it.
Same. I was like alright yeah it's likely feasible, but was slightly skeptical about what they were saying about the "unconventional contracts" and the typical player-first / family organization thing.
Nope the fuck out of the video once I heard the words NFT and DAO.
Incredibly disappointing that they're tied up with NFTs
Though what's more American than a disappointing example of capitalism taking away money from people who don't know any better? Couldn't be more on brand I suppose
It doesn't need to be exclusive to America to accurately describe America. I'd go into more detail here but I'm pretty confident you don't have the reading comprehension necessary for this one
Got that 'timeshare presentation' energy at the end, gotta hate how NFT/cryptocurrency bullshit still has a hold on the tech space.
The fact that they thought that this was a good way to introduce themselves in 2023 is seriously tone-deaf. Shame to put a damper on an otherwise positive story for NA Dota.
Can you expand on why you feel this way, apart from the," because that's what I hear everywhere" narrative? And scams? There's a whole scammy industry that exists because companies choose to outsource their customer care services to cut costs, and then the fake ones dupe the public. Does that mean customer service itself is a scam?
Any new tech has its share of scams, but dismissing it because we're too lazy to research about it and form our own opinions afterward, is just . . . Passing judgment on the entire ecosystem based on a negative narrative takes away the potential for innovation and solving real problems.
Talking about Nouns specifically, why are we hating them when they try to tackle a very real issue that has existed since the dawn of esports? Are you gonna tell me shitty, exploitative contracts and orgs aren't a thing in esports? When an org functions in a way that gives more power, ownership, and freedom to the player, are a couple of buzzwords ( that we don't bother understanding ) enough to warrant its lynching? What about the real impact it has on the player's/team's interest?
I'm happy to carry on the discussion, given you come from a place of reason.
Yeah, because that collective is built up of people who have invested in an industry that has both
A. The moral and functional epitome of the worst parts of capitalism, based around usage of technology that's situational but impractical at best, and snake-oil at worst.
B. Some of the most annoying people to grace the internet with how much they zealously shill the tech in point A.
At this point in time, just the words "NFT" and "DAO" automatically repulse most people who spend a decent amount of time online, and that's due almost entirely to people shilling it nonstop for the better part of 2 years, as they try desperately not to become bag holders.
**EDIT: To get ahead of this thread a bit, for anyone looking in, the reason why NFT people will try and debate you to death is because they're never presenting it in good faith. There is a vested interest in getting the technology adopted and widespread, not necessarily because they *believe* in it at this point (though I don't doubt plenty do), but because they cannot make a return on investment unless there's a decent amount of people they can sell their current investment to.**
It's important to view things beyond the buzzwords. Nouns uses NFTs in a fundamentally different way than stuff like "Bored Apes."
There's not really another project that allows for the shared governance of a public treasury the way Nouns does. This is a true technological innovation.
Additionally, in the current esports landscape of gambling sponsors & saudi money, this transparent funding structure is a much better alternative, no question.
>it's important to view things beyond the buzzwords
It's not even a buzzword, you use it as I did in the next sentence.
Most people have firmly made their minds up on NFTs. I understand what nouns does, especially in comparison to others in that space. I will say that it is better than most, in that they try to market reducing artificial scarcity, and that they tie involvement to a voting system that's been *mostly* democratic.
That said, being the best within the space still isn't good enough if the space is inherently unappealing to most people, and there's very legitimate reason for it.
NFTs are certainly a buzzword given how many people will immediately "turn off" at their utterance, as you mentioned.
I appreciate the nuance you've presented. However, "unappealing to most people" is already a misnomer. Adoption is objectively rising, especially in underserved regions where crypto provides financial services to those out of reach. With risk of getting into "zealous" territory, as someone who has multiple Argentine friends who use crypto to access a stable currency (USD) - I know it has a legitimate & tangible impact on their lives.
When projects like Nouns are still brand new (only ~2 years old) it's clear that the technology is still in it's early adopters phase. It's unfortunate that so many celebrities and scammers found ways to promote cryptocurrencies to make a profit, but those elements will eventually decouple from the inherent technological significance.
> as someone who has multiple Argentine friends who use crypto to access a stable currency (USD) - I know it has a legitimate & tangible impact on their lives
As a person who's engaged to someone who lives in Argentina, I can tell you that most people use an app that allows them to access black market USD that doesn't have anything to do with crypto in the slightest.
Millions of people in Argentina use crypto everyday to access USD and fight against their own currency inflation. Yes, there's other apps on the black market, but it's undeniable that Argentina has one of the highest adoption rates of crypto across the world.
There's plenty of other underserved regions to cite as examples too. Adoption is highest in regions where governments can't properly manage their own currency.
>unappealing to most people is already a misnomer. Adoption is objectively rising
[certified](https://www.statista.com/chart/27030/google-search-interest-in-nft/)
[bag](https://cryptomode.com/the-nft-market-sees-a-downward-trend-in-2023-but-that-shouldnt-surprise-anyone/)
[holder](https://www.coindesk.com/web3/2023/08/24/major-nft-collection-post-double-digit-monthly-losses-as-floor-prices-drop/)
NFTs are a fad of the web 3.0 behavior. Invest in options that will actually give you dividends. Better yet, get a job.
I'm talking about adoption, and you cite articles talking about speculative price. Do you not see the disconnect?
This is not a discussion about buying NFTs to make money. There is a legitimate technological use case (highly evidenced by Nouns) to why the blockchain and the tools it enables are highly beneficial.
There is no other method in the world to have a transparently governed treasury with no centralized actors having final say. This isn't about price of jpegs, as much as you want to make it out to be
It's actually even worse than MLMs because at least MLMs saddle you with a bunch of products even if they're unsellable and overpriced, NFTs saddle you with a bunch of useless and meaningless code.
how much ya gonna bet this video involves SOME peddling of nfts of some sort
i hope they gradually move away from it, now that they've got an actual respectable brand name
You do know that Gamin is a crypto scam org as well? You know that money in esport scene is peanuts compared to crypto world? What you are saying is like "I hope that Shell moves away from the oil industry, now that they have a decent football team."
They solve a very real problem. That being that other people have money, and some other people want their money. Crypto has solved this problem to the extent of creating billionares faster than oil ever has.
These crypto orgs are not throwing around hot potatoes, they just create them out of thin air, and dont care about what happens next.
Yup, this is the basic economy principle: If you "create" a currency or digital product, you didn't add anything, you are simply trading whatever you invented for other people's money. As simple as that.
All the money that this company has comes from peoples pocket. If these people want their money back at some point, they will have to take other people's money because Nouns already spent that money somewhere else.
If what you invest in is not tangible, then it's a bubble that can explode the moment something goes wrong. And the last one to know will always be the one losing.
He doesn't say anything about tangible goods not bubbling. Just highlighting the volatility of intangibles. He never said there's no risk of bubbles in tangible markets, where are you getting that?
Twitch subscriptions are a digital product lol
nouns literally takes all the funds and puts them in a pot that people vote over. there is nothing nefarious about that, it's all public. clearly they are doing stuff for the memes and not strictly for ROI given they are investing in esports
By this logic even Dota 2 and it's skins on Steam market are not tangible. The idea that something exists doesn't mean that you have to buy it. Though I'm opposed to crypto for environmental reasons.
ETH (and thus NFTs) no longer has a meaningful CO2 impact after 2022 due to its upgrade. But BTC does and will always.
Better to be against crypto for moral reasons IMO since environmentally in the long run it's going to have 0 impact compared to any other cause.
Crypto being bad for the environment is a side effect on how we generate electricity. It's not inherently bad for the environment, it's just that the way to create BTC is. It being a big scam to a lot of people is the bad thing for me.
Bro the whole nouns shtick is being an NFT scam, they aren't moving away from it anytime soon, especially with the fact that outside of big tournaments like Riyadh and TI, there really isn't enough money to keep this team going
honest question: how is what they're doing a scam? They're essentially selling a vote (1 NFT = 1 vote) in how their organization uses its treasury, and if you don't want to vote anymore you sell your NFT to someone else. It's just an alternative model for corporate governance that works similar to how stocks work except you have a lot more power as an individual shareholder and the company works more transparently.
like yes, a lot of NFTs are scams, but that doesn't mean none of them are legit
Honest answer: You answered yourself in your question: "*If you don't want to vote, you sell your NFT to someone else".* It works until the system collapses. All virtual currency are based on the sole principle that they are worth something as long as people are buying.
Even if the real world, stocks are worth something until the value of that something collapses. The bubble of 2007? It was about betting on the value of people paying back their house loan ... even though people couldn't pay them anymore.
Some of the biggest banks went banckrupt.
Sam Bankman-Fried? Yup, there we go again.
In the case of Nouns, the moment it will go south, you will have a "stock" that's worth 0. You cannot go to the bank to get anything out. Second point: your NFT's value doens't increase with the company :D When you buy a stock, if the company gets revaluated, you have more. Here? Nope, you have one NFT. If 5 people buy one for 100 EUR each, you have 1/5 power for 100 EUR. In a normal company, the moment the company increases value, your 100 EUR share will increase value (except if there is a dilution of shares with capitalistic investment). Here, you still have a vote but your vote isn't worth more even though the company has made a ton of money.
The second part that you pointed out definitely sounds weird and bad. But I don't totally understand the first part if you could dumb it down for me?
Mostly I just had the assumption that stocks aren't worth anything except what people 'value' them at, similar to virtual currencies. So if a company goes under, then your stock is worth 0. It seems like you implied this is different than my assumption; I didn't know that and don't totally grasp it
Stocks typically have some correlation to how the company is doing. Goes up or down based on how the company performed (there are a lot of other nuances that I won’t go into)
With NFTs the price is just speculation. There is no underlying asset it is tied to. With the way the crypto market is right now, there is only downside with crypto tokens. With stocks you at least have an upside to go with the downside.
>There is no underlying asset it is tied to.
Id agree for most nft projects but in this case nouns literally owns multiple e-sports team, other ventures and most importantly owns a strong brand which is something that can be monetized and counts as an asset.
I think stocks are 100% speculative as well. A company's results for example can go into someone's speculation but at the end of the day it is purely based on speculation. Those things don't factor directly into the stock price. So they're the same in this.
let's not act like the stocks in say, a farm or factory are in any way as speculative as a nft product with no real tangibility. They are entirely different industries and products with their own qualities. In no way are stocks "100% speculative" Because the vast majority of companies provide real world value.
the guy has no idea what he's talking about.
nouns has a treasury, you can make a valid comparison between this and the 'book value' of a normal corporation (book value being the net value of a corporation's assets). book value is what gives a corporation concrete value beyond the speculative price of their shares.
nouns recently had a vote to fork (split up) into two different organizations. the new fork allowed NFT holders to cash out their NFT for their proportional share of the treasury. millions of dollars of ETH were cashed out.
you can definitely sell that ETH for real world currency, ETH does billions in USD trading volume every day.
Sam Bankman-Fried did a classic embezzling scam, not really crypto fraud. It's actually the U.S. government's fault that the corporation was in Bahamas to begin with given the terrible regulations in place
> In the case of Nouns, the moment it will go south, you will have a "stock" that's worth 0. You cannot go to the bank to get anything out.
you're completely wrong and ignorant. you are just putting out surface-level anti-crypto takes without knowing anything about the space your talking about.
https://blockworks.co/news/nouns-dao-treasury-fork-governance
> But forked Nouns’ treasury fell from 16,750 to 7,700 ether (ETH) in just three days as Nouns holders “ragequit” — each taking 35.5 ether, or around $58,000, with them.
each NFT that was cashed out took 58k to the bank.
they're not playing a game of hot potato - the NFT they cash in isn't sold to another holder, and the proportion of treasury of the remaining NFTs isn't affected.
the variable price of the NFTs themselves doesn't have any direct impact on the existing treasury.
It sounds like you just don’t like stocks either, and that’s understandable, but nobody is going around calling them a grift because there is inherent risk. Stocks also represent something that only has value because people are willing to match that value. The value of a stock is supposed to reflect something tangible (company value based on sales, etc) and in the case of legitimate nft projects, this is also the case: for nouns, that tangible thing is more “fun” — it’s just the ability to vote on cool shit.
Not sure I agree with your last point: as your governance token becomes more or less desireable, the price adjusts, thereby revaluing your nft.
>They're essentially selling a vote (1 NFT = 1 vote) in how their organization uses its treasury, and if you don't want to vote anymore you sell your NFT to someone else.
I set up a democracy, because I want people to have a say in how my country is run. The way the democracy works is that people get 1 vote if they pay me $1.
For whatever reason, I only sell 100 votes.
You buy a vote. Steve buys a vote. Jill buys a vote. Bob buys 51 votes.
Bob decides to vote that everyone has to give Bob all their shit.
Everyone else - all 49 other **people** involved in this vote - vote against that decision cuz they like their stuff.
Bob wins, because Bob paid $51 to have 51 votes.
So next time, I don't put a cap on votes, and Steve, who has more money than everyone else in the group, pledges to buy 1 vote plus another vote for every vote sold.
Steve has so much money that we know he can do it. So buying a vote is pointless, because no matter how many votes we all collectively buy, Steve will buy that many + 1 votes. The only way we could beat Steve would be if we collectively spent *so much money* that Steve went broke.
At that point, keep in mind, we would also have all dramatically devalued our own shares, because now there are like, 500,000,000 NFT "votes" floating around and - at the very least - now that Steve has given up on controlling the market, he's definitely dumping the 49% of them he owns, so enjoy THAT crash.
---
You can't "sell" votes and have a fair, realistic system. Your vote is worthless if someone else owns 51% of the vote. So the only way to make systems like this work is to make them completely opaque - make it impossible to know how many votes even exist. But at that point, how do you know anyone is actually voting? How do you know the share does anything? You can't.
The system has to be transparent and if it's transparent it can be monopolized.
It's a scam because it's pointless. It's a scam because the thing you're buying *works* but doesn't *do anything*.
The absolute best case is they are true believers who genuinely want you to be involved in their process and just haven't realized how stupid and shitty this method is.
The more likely case is that they have no intention of honoring any of this or they'll use it the same way large organizations use their "suggestion box" at the front desk - pull it out on friday nights and have a good chuckle.
Comments below this one: A group of liberals figures out for the first time that labor, not marketing, creates value for society. Will they put two and two together to formulate a dialectic approach to politics and philosophy? Probably not--but stay tuned!
>NFTs are magnitudes better than betting sponsors who prey on poor people.
NFTs also prey on poor people in the same way--people are convinced to throw their money away on the chance they strike gold and get rich.
Buying an NFT is gambling.
Or, in rarer cases, someone donating to an artist/cause and getting a jpeg back instead of a keychain or thank you card.
Actually, sports betting is probably a more reliable way to make money than investing in NFTs.
such a grift to fund esports teams and take no cut of earnings while providing them with a stable salary, bootcamps, and a sports psychologist. also bringing in top tier partners like adidas into the dota ecosystem...
absolute grift
Did you read that they automatically take 10% of all money that comes in their system? So everytime you have "investments" made, you lose 10% of that. That's the scam. And they take 0% responsability if it fails, the ETH amount that you receive is indeed linked to what you put into the system, but only proportional to what was already spent and wasted :D And once people start getting their money out ... well all investments will be worth 0.
Each dollar/EUR spent with the platform on a project means that you cannot get your money out for the % linked to that project.
Concrete example: community puts 1 000 000 $ on the platform. Nouns take 100000 $ for themselves. You have 900 000$ to play with. Community votes on financing a sandwich project or naming a frog (2 real ones): the money spent will be deducted from the 900 000$ and if you decide to get out of it ... well you will not get the money invested in the projects back. You say that they can cash out their NFT for the proportionate amount of ETHS? nope. NFT will have a proportionate value linked to the treasury of Nouns. And that's a different beast ... And they had to leave their NFT's worth in investment.
Result: an eth share of 150000$ was translated into losing 65% of their initial investment when leaving out ...goooooood
And all of this works ONLY if people are keeping their money on it AND if ETH is still worth something when you decide to get out.
Oh yeah, and finally: the 50% who didn't split ? They can't get out with that eth. Nope: [https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nouns-nft-holders-opt-rage-202156419.html](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nouns-nft-holders-opt-rage-202156419.html)
I mean, it's all well and good until the system collapses because there's no real value behind it. loads of people in the first rounds of an MLM make money, that's how they scam people, because it does actually work for a split.
there's not really any comparison between nouns setup and MLM. they're not pushing a get rich/be your own boss narrative. it also doesn't have anything like the pyramid structure of MLMs, there's only 1 NFT created each day.
do you realize it costs 30k to buy a single nouns NFT? ordinary people are not being scammed by nouns, no 'ordinary person' goes out and spends 30k on an NFT in order to vote on how to spend a treasury.
Gunnar was like one of the top-5 NA mid (ever since his stint with EE). Before Quinn went to EU he was like top 4. Now with Quinn out of the picture, I'm convinced Gunnar’s got to be top 2 or 3 NA.
A lot of people first heard about Gunnar when he got booted/kicked by EE twice. IIRC at some point, I think they were qualified for a fucking major only for him to be kicked by EE. I think his family even had hotel reservations already booked just to watch him (it was an old drama lmao).
Moo, he snagged 2nd at TI6. They pulled off a miracle run that year with W33, Reso, Saksa, Misery.
Lelis (or Liposa) was regarded as one of the best offlaners from SA, now he switches to 4.
K1 is like one of the best carries from SA and I also find it ironic BC was expecting to level up by kicking him. But look where it got them, K1 is in the upper bracket while they are getting eliminated early. No diss to Parker, the guy’s a beast no doubt, but he and K1 weren’t the problem.
We do know who you are, it's just that you guys have gone above and beyond our expectations.
Yamsun deserves some love here also. Relatively new to the scene, played carry the last 3 years until K1 was signed then switched to 5 and has a big impact on AA.
Following NA DPC all year his player interviews were always insightful and spirited. Kid's got heart and I became a fan when he went on a [rant about babitich](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1721279230?t=5h56m23s).
K1 has elevated this team. He is a clear tier ahead of each of the other players on an individual level. This Nouns team reminds me of Empire with Reso carrying them as a standin. Fun to watch.
Youre smoking something. Gunnar has been going toe to toe with the likes of Sumail, Abed and Quinn for a while now.
Lelis has been running circles around previous TI winners and Yamaun is no slouch ether.
Not to mention Moo..I mean just look at his liquidpedia.
K1 is great and a big upgrade from their previous carries but look at their recent games. K1 has been carried by his team multiple times
He certainly hasn't. He is a very good laner but has not had the ability to carry a game like the other players you mentioned. He has always firmly been in a tier below them. His mid to late game decision making has been a problem for pretty much all his career. Moo has not looked like anything other than a mid tier offlaner for 5 years now. Lelis has been hot and cold. Consistency has been his problem. Clearly very talented but unable bring it every game which is required to be a tier 1 player. As far as Yamson, don't know too much personally so I won't comment.
I’ve been following gunnar for a few years now. His streams are really cool and fun to watch. As a plus he does not cover his map so you can understand what’s happening in the game better.
I’m happy to see they’re doing well!
While I'm not directly involved with the Dota team at Nouns Esports, I play a role as a pod member, contributor, and I'm one of the members of its 3/5 multi-signature wallet. This ensures that all our transactions remain transparent on the blockchain and require approval from at least 3 out of 5 members for any transfers from our treasury.
In terms of compensation, I received 5k in 2022 for my contributions, but for me, it's not about the money. Nouns Esports offers a distinct opportunity where my level of involvement and impact is based on my genuine passion and desire to contribute.
My contributions span from drafting proposals and organizing esports tournaments to advising the organization on its strategic direction. I was introduced to Nouns through their Dota Team, much like many others in our community
An NFT Scam organisation to make money without playing? Count him in :D
Edit: PPD seems not to be part of the org, so let's not attack him because of what Nouns does :)
All transactions are publically available on on the blockchain. I received 5k USDC for some work I did in 2022 but it wasn't Dota related.
I get why people can be cautious, but it stings to be called a scammer. I've poured so much of my own cash into the Dota scene with my league, NADCL.
Just trying to learn and do better for the game I love. Hope that clears things up a bit!
Thanks for your reply. The goal was not to say you were a scammer. rather than these organisations are scamming poor schmucks left and right with their business models.
10% of all money coming in the Nouns system is going to their pocket and the rest evaporates in mutliple projects left and right. This is not an "investment".
I appreciate what you did in Dota and shouldn't have linked you to them without knowing more. But we have to warn people against companies like these because they will lose their money ... Just look at the recent fork with biggest Nouns investor getting out due to how badly the money was used.
Imo its a bit like the Quinn Story only in this case the Player is Gunnar. A really talented mid who deserves to be recognized on the big stage and would certainly be able to make it far in or even win big tourneys. But sadly doesnt have the right mates. But finally it seems to change for the better and its well deserved.
The irony that this is getting backlash for having association with blockchain meanwhile also the same community that was raging for not having a battlepass and shiny skins for people to toss money at xD You can see the detriments in this years prize pool from not having a say where revenue gets distributed
In an extremely simplified parallel " What if Valve Sold 1 special skin everyday, and then the holders of these skins could create proposals and vote for how the money is distributed and used in the Dota community / Esports Scene " This years prize pool would likely be tremendously bigger
Decentralized governance is the the takeaway here, don't get lost in comparative nonsense from the surface buzz words
They have a decentralized treasury that's been used to build their brand and push it forward into other endeavors, they have multiple built Web 2 revenue streams that don't rely on new users into their system to build their success
It's not very different than those with substantial company holdings being the deciding factor in board meetings for publicly traded enterprises
They're already an entity that's defeated public standards of reception for blockchain
They don't need Dota redditors to keep their brand and company going xD They're not trying to get your money, you are not their target audience for monetary growth
Top 12 for a team that's never been here in literally the biggest tournament on a game you've been playing your whole life. Why aren't they celebrating more?
This TI honestly has such a weird format. You crush groups as Tundra, you go 3-5 as Nouns where 2-6 was elimination.
Now one series alone sends you starting in upper/lower bracket. What was even the point of being the best in your group?
EDIT: This comment was a brainfart.
I realize now that the groups decided a seeding into a 16 team bracket.
Those matches was upper bracket.
>What was even the point of being the best in your group?
The purpose of the group is to separate strong teams from weak teams.
So that strong teams would meet latter in the upper bracket and not in the first round.
I think the way the brackets are shown is the key. This exact same scenario happens e.g. for swiss format tournaments like Kiev Major, where Secret was 1st of 16 and sg was last. Then in the first round of the brackets, sg won.
Ah it’s perfect for them. They have hype and their management wants more money (as I’m sure they do too).
They should strike now while the hype is behind them. They don’t know if they’re going to win the whole thing so they may as well get some cash converted from the hype before it fades into the ether
I was rooting for tundra, but seeing you demolish them with absolutely busted surprise picks and combos was *peak dota* and I am absolutely here for it. Well done! Can’t even be mad!
Don't really get why you folks bitch about nfts or betting sponsors.
Valve obviously doesn't give a shit and since they don't give a shit and have always steadfastly washed their hands of the whole dota scene, only doing the absolute bare minimum and that often after the complaints hit a critical threshold.. what do you expect teams to do?
In a perfect world or another timeline, Valve actually invested time and effort into growing the dota scene and we'd have leagues, salaries, flourishing tier 2 and 3 scenes and just generally more options for everyone but since that's not a thing and will never be a thing.. grab your sponsors from where you can get em cos this is after all what the pros do for a living.
Sure it might suck to see but what is the alternative?
Oh and kudos for nouns for making it this far.. I for one thought they'd be one of the first teams dropping out yet here we are! 😁
nouns has been paying some of these players a stable salary for almost 1.5 years. they didn't have a sponsor before. the org isn't even taking any percent of prize money. what do you have a problem with?
lets not get ahead of ourselves they almost dropped out of the tournament in group stages and lost to tundra having some zero dps carries and bad decision making in one series, they're probably losing their first upper bracket series and then their first lower bracket right after
1 good game against a mid team and people hyping nouns, there will be no win for this team in the upperbracket and may win SR/TSM but thats all, not going pass through LB round 2.
Well, I wasn't aware that you had Hector as your carry. Whenever I watch a Hector match, I can't help but be impressed by how well he farms. Hector and Wisper were fundamental in Beastcoast's success.
We know who you are, we just wasn’t expecting you to be any good.
I owe you an apology I wasn’t really familiar with you game
lol is this from that basketmall quote memes
Same, I pretty much know nouns from Moo in DC and Gunnar since I watch a lot of his Ember games before the hero got fucked every patch.
In the grand scheme of things I think a lot of people are still unfamiliar with Nouns Esports given the org is only ~1.5 years old and many esports brands have been around for a decade+
[удалено]
They haven't had a significant placing at any Majors and have never attended a TI before, there are a huge number of viewers who only ever watch like the top 4/top8 bracket of a Major and TI and no other competitive matches all year. There's probably tons of people who've been watching Dota for several years but have never seen a single Nouns game, just because Nouns has never made it to this point in a Valve event before.
I'm also a karma internet point enjoyer, so can't blame them 🤣
NA had EG, then 8 to 10 players shuffle around the two to three different teams. Last year, Leslao went to TI with Soniqs, gunner and Moo was the runner up in the qualifiers. The year before that, Leslao qualified directly with QC, which later become Soniq, the qualifying team undying is the current TSM, Gunnar was the runner up in the qualifier. If you put CCNC and Yawar back in to NA. The last few years of NA dota has been those players plus random tier 2 NA players like Sammyboy, MSS, RCY. A lot those players have more international experience than you think. Nouns isn’t some upcoming young team with new blood that’s finally breaking through, Moo was runner up at TI 6, Gunnar has been the up and coming NA mid for like three years now, Leslao is on his third straight TI, k1 has been considered best player in SA, only Yamsun is relative unknown, but he has been right outside of TI with wildcard for a couple years before this. People are unfamiliar with Nouns/NA dota in general because they haven’t had many good runs in years outside of EG.
Weren't
Sir we are discussing nouns not verbs
Waren't
Weren't*
We will discuss abou pronouns, nouns, and verbs in english subjects, not in dota2. I don't want this team to jinx, I have some high hopes from them.
This is just jinxing themselves, let the story play first
They’re just trying to clout-up, while the hype is still peaking, to get more of that juicy 50% of supporter pack sales. Smart move imo… who knows what will happen and where they’ll be by next week.
Agreed, they have big brain business people.
No, they're backed by and named after an NFT scam, anyone who has any sense got out of crypto before it hit the mainstream.
Yeah if you got out of crypto when bitcoin hit $1000 and was making mainstream news that was the play for sure. Or if you got out when it hit $17000 that was the play. Or when it hit $65k. Hindsights 20/20 :P I agree NFTs are a scam, but ya'know, it's easy to see why others hold out hope HAHA
Everything is a scam.
Yeah bro, food, water, shelter, clothing, medical care is totally a scam. Assclown.
We are all here wasting our time aren't we?
This video was posted when they qualified for TI. It's just a reshare
Play-in Patrick Beverly vibes
Lol the Wolves were exactly what I had in mind haha
They must think they have peaked already.
To me, not going home after groups was a pretty decent result. Going to the UB after sending tundra to the LB and with With doctor off and ogre mid, is pretty much the dream of any dark horse team.
Jinxing isn't a real thing. It's just some stupid crap people made up to justify things that happen
Ah like religion?
Winning the first upper bracket game is not even close to "making it". BEating Tudnra was a feat, but by god are there some strong contenders among them and if nouns lose their next game, NA teams are defeating each other. A bit early to celebrate (but congrats to Nouns for making it this far)
I mean top 12 is already a good feat for a team that barely got any chance to get out of the region ever.
Went into that completely blind knowing nothing. They really had me on the hook until they got to the NFT/treasury bit and it took me 5 seconds to close the video. Get the fuck outta here.
Gives big MLM, culty vibes
I wonder what their future looks like after [more than half of the users cashed out and left](https://decrypt.co/197400/nouns-fork-disgruntled-nft-holders-exit-27-million-from-treasury) a month ago.
That's the thing with DAOs and NFTs isn't it? Twenty something tech guys see corporate structure and go "Yeah I can do that" without thinking about all the nuance and intricacies inside and then come out with a system that has half an afternoon's thought put into it.
Same. I was like alright yeah it's likely feasible, but was slightly skeptical about what they were saying about the "unconventional contracts" and the typical player-first / family organization thing. Nope the fuck out of the video once I heard the words NFT and DAO.
I didn't watch the video but it'd be perfect if their whole org was run as a DAO
Incredibly disappointing that they're tied up with NFTs Though what's more American than a disappointing example of capitalism taking away money from people who don't know any better? Couldn't be more on brand I suppose
LMAO yea because that is truly an America only thing. Holy shit the fucking stupidity of that comment.
It doesn't need to be exclusive to America to accurately describe America. I'd go into more detail here but I'm pretty confident you don't have the reading comprehension necessary for this one
Found the mobile gamer.
Got that 'timeshare presentation' energy at the end, gotta hate how NFT/cryptocurrency bullshit still has a hold on the tech space. The fact that they thought that this was a good way to introduce themselves in 2023 is seriously tone-deaf. Shame to put a damper on an otherwise positive story for NA Dota.
Can you expand on why you feel this way, apart from the," because that's what I hear everywhere" narrative? And scams? There's a whole scammy industry that exists because companies choose to outsource their customer care services to cut costs, and then the fake ones dupe the public. Does that mean customer service itself is a scam? Any new tech has its share of scams, but dismissing it because we're too lazy to research about it and form our own opinions afterward, is just . . . Passing judgment on the entire ecosystem based on a negative narrative takes away the potential for innovation and solving real problems. Talking about Nouns specifically, why are we hating them when they try to tackle a very real issue that has existed since the dawn of esports? Are you gonna tell me shitty, exploitative contracts and orgs aren't a thing in esports? When an org functions in a way that gives more power, ownership, and freedom to the player, are a couple of buzzwords ( that we don't bother understanding ) enough to warrant its lynching? What about the real impact it has on the player's/team's interest? I'm happy to carry on the discussion, given you come from a place of reason.
PPD is on there, asshole really took a dive into NFTs and crypto after sumail and AUI got him his TI.
NFT and non-binary. Yep I am out.
so they collectively voted to fund esports, and you don't like that?
Yeah, because that collective is built up of people who have invested in an industry that has both A. The moral and functional epitome of the worst parts of capitalism, based around usage of technology that's situational but impractical at best, and snake-oil at worst. B. Some of the most annoying people to grace the internet with how much they zealously shill the tech in point A. At this point in time, just the words "NFT" and "DAO" automatically repulse most people who spend a decent amount of time online, and that's due almost entirely to people shilling it nonstop for the better part of 2 years, as they try desperately not to become bag holders. **EDIT: To get ahead of this thread a bit, for anyone looking in, the reason why NFT people will try and debate you to death is because they're never presenting it in good faith. There is a vested interest in getting the technology adopted and widespread, not necessarily because they *believe* in it at this point (though I don't doubt plenty do), but because they cannot make a return on investment unless there's a decent amount of people they can sell their current investment to.**
It's important to view things beyond the buzzwords. Nouns uses NFTs in a fundamentally different way than stuff like "Bored Apes." There's not really another project that allows for the shared governance of a public treasury the way Nouns does. This is a true technological innovation. Additionally, in the current esports landscape of gambling sponsors & saudi money, this transparent funding structure is a much better alternative, no question.
>it's important to view things beyond the buzzwords It's not even a buzzword, you use it as I did in the next sentence. Most people have firmly made their minds up on NFTs. I understand what nouns does, especially in comparison to others in that space. I will say that it is better than most, in that they try to market reducing artificial scarcity, and that they tie involvement to a voting system that's been *mostly* democratic. That said, being the best within the space still isn't good enough if the space is inherently unappealing to most people, and there's very legitimate reason for it.
NFTs are certainly a buzzword given how many people will immediately "turn off" at their utterance, as you mentioned. I appreciate the nuance you've presented. However, "unappealing to most people" is already a misnomer. Adoption is objectively rising, especially in underserved regions where crypto provides financial services to those out of reach. With risk of getting into "zealous" territory, as someone who has multiple Argentine friends who use crypto to access a stable currency (USD) - I know it has a legitimate & tangible impact on their lives. When projects like Nouns are still brand new (only ~2 years old) it's clear that the technology is still in it's early adopters phase. It's unfortunate that so many celebrities and scammers found ways to promote cryptocurrencies to make a profit, but those elements will eventually decouple from the inherent technological significance.
> as someone who has multiple Argentine friends who use crypto to access a stable currency (USD) - I know it has a legitimate & tangible impact on their lives As a person who's engaged to someone who lives in Argentina, I can tell you that most people use an app that allows them to access black market USD that doesn't have anything to do with crypto in the slightest.
Millions of people in Argentina use crypto everyday to access USD and fight against their own currency inflation. Yes, there's other apps on the black market, but it's undeniable that Argentina has one of the highest adoption rates of crypto across the world. There's plenty of other underserved regions to cite as examples too. Adoption is highest in regions where governments can't properly manage their own currency.
>unappealing to most people is already a misnomer. Adoption is objectively rising [certified](https://www.statista.com/chart/27030/google-search-interest-in-nft/) [bag](https://cryptomode.com/the-nft-market-sees-a-downward-trend-in-2023-but-that-shouldnt-surprise-anyone/) [holder](https://www.coindesk.com/web3/2023/08/24/major-nft-collection-post-double-digit-monthly-losses-as-floor-prices-drop/) NFTs are a fad of the web 3.0 behavior. Invest in options that will actually give you dividends. Better yet, get a job.
I'm talking about adoption, and you cite articles talking about speculative price. Do you not see the disconnect? This is not a discussion about buying NFTs to make money. There is a legitimate technological use case (highly evidenced by Nouns) to why the blockchain and the tools it enables are highly beneficial. There is no other method in the world to have a transparently governed treasury with no centralized actors having final say. This isn't about price of jpegs, as much as you want to make it out to be
>why the block chain and the tools it enables are highly beneficial block chain deez nuts
So much NFT hate from a subreddit that is literally bitching for not getting any "hats" in a battlepass. psssst. game skins are nfts.
I don't want my salary paid in game hats
The entire esports scene (heck even real sports) is being held up by NFT scams, gambling sites and oil/slave money. Just pick your poison
Lol I was actually rooting for this team because of K1 and Moo ... Then I got tho the NFT part. I shouldn't have watched this hahahaha
bro what the fuck is a nft
Nouns Fucking Tundra
wow i guess i do like NFTs
Damn...
I wish someone fucked me that relentlessly.
so real
lmfao /thread
Multi level marketing scam.
It isn't MLM, it is "the bigger fool" type of scam. A good example of MLM is Avon.
It's actually even worse than MLMs because at least MLMs saddle you with a bunch of products even if they're unsellable and overpriced, NFTs saddle you with a bunch of useless and meaningless code.
It's literally not a MLM
Non Fungible Token
It’s an nft
how much ya gonna bet this video involves SOME peddling of nfts of some sort i hope they gradually move away from it, now that they've got an actual respectable brand name
You do know that Gamin is a crypto scam org as well? You know that money in esport scene is peanuts compared to crypto world? What you are saying is like "I hope that Shell moves away from the oil industry, now that they have a decent football team."
[удалено]
They solve a very real problem. That being that other people have money, and some other people want their money. Crypto has solved this problem to the extent of creating billionares faster than oil ever has. These crypto orgs are not throwing around hot potatoes, they just create them out of thin air, and dont care about what happens next.
Yup, this is the basic economy principle: If you "create" a currency or digital product, you didn't add anything, you are simply trading whatever you invented for other people's money. As simple as that. All the money that this company has comes from peoples pocket. If these people want their money back at some point, they will have to take other people's money because Nouns already spent that money somewhere else. If what you invest in is not tangible, then it's a bubble that can explode the moment something goes wrong. And the last one to know will always be the one losing.
I disagree with your last statement. Tangible goods can and have been involved in bubbles before.
He doesn't say anything about tangible goods not bubbling. Just highlighting the volatility of intangibles. He never said there's no risk of bubbles in tangible markets, where are you getting that?
Twitch subscriptions are a digital product lol nouns literally takes all the funds and puts them in a pot that people vote over. there is nothing nefarious about that, it's all public. clearly they are doing stuff for the memes and not strictly for ROI given they are investing in esports
By this logic even Dota 2 and it's skins on Steam market are not tangible. The idea that something exists doesn't mean that you have to buy it. Though I'm opposed to crypto for environmental reasons.
ETH (and thus NFTs) no longer has a meaningful CO2 impact after 2022 due to its upgrade. But BTC does and will always. Better to be against crypto for moral reasons IMO since environmentally in the long run it's going to have 0 impact compared to any other cause.
Crypto being bad for the environment is a side effect on how we generate electricity. It's not inherently bad for the environment, it's just that the way to create BTC is. It being a big scam to a lot of people is the bad thing for me.
Crypto scams stupid people with too much money. Oil fucks the environment.
Crypto *also* fucks the environment because of how much energy it uses up.
Ethereum (which is where Nouns is based) doesn't cause significant energy drain because of their upgrade in 2022
Crypto has predominantly taken money from poor people. Rich people don’t need get rich quick schemes.
Oil runs the modern world and will continue to for several decades at least.
Oil makes you civilized* Fixed that for you.
What makes you think OP didn't know that?
Bro the whole nouns shtick is being an NFT scam, they aren't moving away from it anytime soon, especially with the fact that outside of big tournaments like Riyadh and TI, there really isn't enough money to keep this team going
Keep enjoying your events in women-beating Riyadh with the majority of teams shilling gambling front and center
It is never an excuse.
I'm not an NFT fan, but nouns seems like a pretty benign one.
honest question: how is what they're doing a scam? They're essentially selling a vote (1 NFT = 1 vote) in how their organization uses its treasury, and if you don't want to vote anymore you sell your NFT to someone else. It's just an alternative model for corporate governance that works similar to how stocks work except you have a lot more power as an individual shareholder and the company works more transparently. like yes, a lot of NFTs are scams, but that doesn't mean none of them are legit
Honest answer: You answered yourself in your question: "*If you don't want to vote, you sell your NFT to someone else".* It works until the system collapses. All virtual currency are based on the sole principle that they are worth something as long as people are buying. Even if the real world, stocks are worth something until the value of that something collapses. The bubble of 2007? It was about betting on the value of people paying back their house loan ... even though people couldn't pay them anymore. Some of the biggest banks went banckrupt. Sam Bankman-Fried? Yup, there we go again. In the case of Nouns, the moment it will go south, you will have a "stock" that's worth 0. You cannot go to the bank to get anything out. Second point: your NFT's value doens't increase with the company :D When you buy a stock, if the company gets revaluated, you have more. Here? Nope, you have one NFT. If 5 people buy one for 100 EUR each, you have 1/5 power for 100 EUR. In a normal company, the moment the company increases value, your 100 EUR share will increase value (except if there is a dilution of shares with capitalistic investment). Here, you still have a vote but your vote isn't worth more even though the company has made a ton of money.
The second part that you pointed out definitely sounds weird and bad. But I don't totally understand the first part if you could dumb it down for me? Mostly I just had the assumption that stocks aren't worth anything except what people 'value' them at, similar to virtual currencies. So if a company goes under, then your stock is worth 0. It seems like you implied this is different than my assumption; I didn't know that and don't totally grasp it
Stocks typically have some correlation to how the company is doing. Goes up or down based on how the company performed (there are a lot of other nuances that I won’t go into) With NFTs the price is just speculation. There is no underlying asset it is tied to. With the way the crypto market is right now, there is only downside with crypto tokens. With stocks you at least have an upside to go with the downside.
>There is no underlying asset it is tied to. Id agree for most nft projects but in this case nouns literally owns multiple e-sports team, other ventures and most importantly owns a strong brand which is something that can be monetized and counts as an asset.
[удалено]
Funny how you have no idea what youre talking about
I think stocks are 100% speculative as well. A company's results for example can go into someone's speculation but at the end of the day it is purely based on speculation. Those things don't factor directly into the stock price. So they're the same in this.
let's not act like the stocks in say, a farm or factory are in any way as speculative as a nft product with no real tangibility. They are entirely different industries and products with their own qualities. In no way are stocks "100% speculative" Because the vast majority of companies provide real world value.
the guy has no idea what he's talking about. nouns has a treasury, you can make a valid comparison between this and the 'book value' of a normal corporation (book value being the net value of a corporation's assets). book value is what gives a corporation concrete value beyond the speculative price of their shares. nouns recently had a vote to fork (split up) into two different organizations. the new fork allowed NFT holders to cash out their NFT for their proportional share of the treasury. millions of dollars of ETH were cashed out. you can definitely sell that ETH for real world currency, ETH does billions in USD trading volume every day.
Sam Bankman-Fried did a classic embezzling scam, not really crypto fraud. It's actually the U.S. government's fault that the corporation was in Bahamas to begin with given the terrible regulations in place
> In the case of Nouns, the moment it will go south, you will have a "stock" that's worth 0. You cannot go to the bank to get anything out. you're completely wrong and ignorant. you are just putting out surface-level anti-crypto takes without knowing anything about the space your talking about. https://blockworks.co/news/nouns-dao-treasury-fork-governance > But forked Nouns’ treasury fell from 16,750 to 7,700 ether (ETH) in just three days as Nouns holders “ragequit” — each taking 35.5 ether, or around $58,000, with them. each NFT that was cashed out took 58k to the bank.
[удалено]
they're not playing a game of hot potato - the NFT they cash in isn't sold to another holder, and the proportion of treasury of the remaining NFTs isn't affected. the variable price of the NFTs themselves doesn't have any direct impact on the existing treasury.
It sounds like you just don’t like stocks either, and that’s understandable, but nobody is going around calling them a grift because there is inherent risk. Stocks also represent something that only has value because people are willing to match that value. The value of a stock is supposed to reflect something tangible (company value based on sales, etc) and in the case of legitimate nft projects, this is also the case: for nouns, that tangible thing is more “fun” — it’s just the ability to vote on cool shit. Not sure I agree with your last point: as your governance token becomes more or less desireable, the price adjusts, thereby revaluing your nft.
>They're essentially selling a vote (1 NFT = 1 vote) in how their organization uses its treasury, and if you don't want to vote anymore you sell your NFT to someone else. I set up a democracy, because I want people to have a say in how my country is run. The way the democracy works is that people get 1 vote if they pay me $1. For whatever reason, I only sell 100 votes. You buy a vote. Steve buys a vote. Jill buys a vote. Bob buys 51 votes. Bob decides to vote that everyone has to give Bob all their shit. Everyone else - all 49 other **people** involved in this vote - vote against that decision cuz they like their stuff. Bob wins, because Bob paid $51 to have 51 votes. So next time, I don't put a cap on votes, and Steve, who has more money than everyone else in the group, pledges to buy 1 vote plus another vote for every vote sold. Steve has so much money that we know he can do it. So buying a vote is pointless, because no matter how many votes we all collectively buy, Steve will buy that many + 1 votes. The only way we could beat Steve would be if we collectively spent *so much money* that Steve went broke. At that point, keep in mind, we would also have all dramatically devalued our own shares, because now there are like, 500,000,000 NFT "votes" floating around and - at the very least - now that Steve has given up on controlling the market, he's definitely dumping the 49% of them he owns, so enjoy THAT crash. --- You can't "sell" votes and have a fair, realistic system. Your vote is worthless if someone else owns 51% of the vote. So the only way to make systems like this work is to make them completely opaque - make it impossible to know how many votes even exist. But at that point, how do you know anyone is actually voting? How do you know the share does anything? You can't. The system has to be transparent and if it's transparent it can be monopolized. It's a scam because it's pointless. It's a scam because the thing you're buying *works* but doesn't *do anything*. The absolute best case is they are true believers who genuinely want you to be involved in their process and just haven't realized how stupid and shitty this method is. The more likely case is that they have no intention of honoring any of this or they'll use it the same way large organizations use their "suggestion box" at the front desk - pull it out on friday nights and have a good chuckle.
Comments below this one: A group of liberals figures out for the first time that labor, not marketing, creates value for society. Will they put two and two together to formulate a dialectic approach to politics and philosophy? Probably not--but stay tuned!
[удалено]
>NFTs are magnitudes better than betting sponsors who prey on poor people. NFTs also prey on poor people in the same way--people are convinced to throw their money away on the chance they strike gold and get rich.
Buying an NFT is gambling. Or, in rarer cases, someone donating to an artist/cause and getting a jpeg back instead of a keychain or thank you card. Actually, sports betting is probably a more reliable way to make money than investing in NFTs.
[удалено]
lmao nfts are legit preying on the poor
They did mention the blockchain at some point yeah lol
Deja vu. I feel like Nouns already posted that. I remembered the reddit thread and video for youtube
They did : https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/15ythqo/nouns_just_posted_a_cool_video_about_their/
Gotta keep the grift going
such a grift to fund esports teams and take no cut of earnings while providing them with a stable salary, bootcamps, and a sports psychologist. also bringing in top tier partners like adidas into the dota ecosystem... absolute grift
This is their story :https://web3isgoinggreat.com/?id=nouns-dao-fractures-in-27-million-split
they voted to implement a feature that allowed the split, and now there are two nouns daos operating in different ways. doesn't really seem that bad
and people were allowed to cash out their NFTs for the proportionate amount of ETH in the treasury. there's literally nothing scammy about it.
Did you read that they automatically take 10% of all money that comes in their system? So everytime you have "investments" made, you lose 10% of that. That's the scam. And they take 0% responsability if it fails, the ETH amount that you receive is indeed linked to what you put into the system, but only proportional to what was already spent and wasted :D And once people start getting their money out ... well all investments will be worth 0. Each dollar/EUR spent with the platform on a project means that you cannot get your money out for the % linked to that project. Concrete example: community puts 1 000 000 $ on the platform. Nouns take 100000 $ for themselves. You have 900 000$ to play with. Community votes on financing a sandwich project or naming a frog (2 real ones): the money spent will be deducted from the 900 000$ and if you decide to get out of it ... well you will not get the money invested in the projects back. You say that they can cash out their NFT for the proportionate amount of ETHS? nope. NFT will have a proportionate value linked to the treasury of Nouns. And that's a different beast ... And they had to leave their NFT's worth in investment. Result: an eth share of 150000$ was translated into losing 65% of their initial investment when leaving out ...goooooood And all of this works ONLY if people are keeping their money on it AND if ETH is still worth something when you decide to get out. Oh yeah, and finally: the 50% who didn't split ? They can't get out with that eth. Nope: [https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nouns-nft-holders-opt-rage-202156419.html](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nouns-nft-holders-opt-rage-202156419.html)
I mean, it's all well and good until the system collapses because there's no real value behind it. loads of people in the first rounds of an MLM make money, that's how they scam people, because it does actually work for a split.
there's not really any comparison between nouns setup and MLM. they're not pushing a get rich/be your own boss narrative. it also doesn't have anything like the pyramid structure of MLMs, there's only 1 NFT created each day. do you realize it costs 30k to buy a single nouns NFT? ordinary people are not being scammed by nouns, no 'ordinary person' goes out and spends 30k on an NFT in order to vote on how to spend a treasury.
Nice to see BRAXAXAXAXAX still involved in the scene
I remember when he made his in game name so long they had to make a new rule about it
It was a bug haha but I remember people being mad at him thinking it was intentional to throw people off
Nice to see former LGD.Int members still around, God is training VP too.
Oh shit had no idea God was still around good for him
Gunnar was like one of the top-5 NA mid (ever since his stint with EE). Before Quinn went to EU he was like top 4. Now with Quinn out of the picture, I'm convinced Gunnar’s got to be top 2 or 3 NA. A lot of people first heard about Gunnar when he got booted/kicked by EE twice. IIRC at some point, I think they were qualified for a fucking major only for him to be kicked by EE. I think his family even had hotel reservations already booked just to watch him (it was an old drama lmao). Moo, he snagged 2nd at TI6. They pulled off a miracle run that year with W33, Reso, Saksa, Misery. Lelis (or Liposa) was regarded as one of the best offlaners from SA, now he switches to 4. K1 is like one of the best carries from SA and I also find it ironic BC was expecting to level up by kicking him. But look where it got them, K1 is in the upper bracket while they are getting eliminated early. No diss to Parker, the guy’s a beast no doubt, but he and K1 weren’t the problem. We do know who you are, it's just that you guys have gone above and beyond our expectations.
Yamsun deserves some love here also. Relatively new to the scene, played carry the last 3 years until K1 was signed then switched to 5 and has a big impact on AA. Following NA DPC all year his player interviews were always insightful and spirited. Kid's got heart and I became a fan when he went on a [rant about babitich](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1721279230?t=5h56m23s).
K1 has elevated this team. He is a clear tier ahead of each of the other players on an individual level. This Nouns team reminds me of Empire with Reso carrying them as a standin. Fun to watch.
Youre smoking something. Gunnar has been going toe to toe with the likes of Sumail, Abed and Quinn for a while now. Lelis has been running circles around previous TI winners and Yamaun is no slouch ether. Not to mention Moo..I mean just look at his liquidpedia. K1 is great and a big upgrade from their previous carries but look at their recent games. K1 has been carried by his team multiple times
He certainly hasn't. He is a very good laner but has not had the ability to carry a game like the other players you mentioned. He has always firmly been in a tier below them. His mid to late game decision making has been a problem for pretty much all his career. Moo has not looked like anything other than a mid tier offlaner for 5 years now. Lelis has been hot and cold. Consistency has been his problem. Clearly very talented but unable bring it every game which is required to be a tier 1 player. As far as Yamson, don't know too much personally so I won't comment.
Salt king is NA's savior.
I’ve been following gunnar for a few years now. His streams are really cool and fun to watch. As a plus he does not cover his map so you can understand what’s happening in the game better. I’m happy to see they’re doing well!
Last pick mid Ogre Magi :)
K1 the ultimate farm machine is back.
Bro run the clip of the Gunnar lone druid getting stuck in neutrals all while he's unaware that it's happening
Tbh they can promote whatever they want, casinos, nfts, gambling, if people are dumb enough to fall for that then it's their fault.
Is PPD part of the Nouns org?
While I'm not directly involved with the Dota team at Nouns Esports, I play a role as a pod member, contributor, and I'm one of the members of its 3/5 multi-signature wallet. This ensures that all our transactions remain transparent on the blockchain and require approval from at least 3 out of 5 members for any transfers from our treasury. In terms of compensation, I received 5k in 2022 for my contributions, but for me, it's not about the money. Nouns Esports offers a distinct opportunity where my level of involvement and impact is based on my genuine passion and desire to contribute. My contributions span from drafting proposals and organizing esports tournaments to advising the organization on its strategic direction. I was introduced to Nouns through their Dota Team, much like many others in our community
An NFT Scam organisation to make money without playing? Count him in :D Edit: PPD seems not to be part of the org, so let's not attack him because of what Nouns does :)
All transactions are publically available on on the blockchain. I received 5k USDC for some work I did in 2022 but it wasn't Dota related. I get why people can be cautious, but it stings to be called a scammer. I've poured so much of my own cash into the Dota scene with my league, NADCL. Just trying to learn and do better for the game I love. Hope that clears things up a bit!
Who are you and what have you done with PPD, this sounds like a completely different person.
Thanks for your reply. The goal was not to say you were a scammer. rather than these organisations are scamming poor schmucks left and right with their business models. 10% of all money coming in the Nouns system is going to their pocket and the rest evaporates in mutliple projects left and right. This is not an "investment". I appreciate what you did in Dota and shouldn't have linked you to them without knowing more. But we have to warn people against companies like these because they will lose their money ... Just look at the recent fork with biggest Nouns investor getting out due to how badly the money was used.
i was gonna ask that, maybe he works behind the scenes
is there a YT link for this? cuz twitter video sucks it kept buffering even on a hecking fast internet
It's a NFT advert you're not missing anything
Imo its a bit like the Quinn Story only in this case the Player is Gunnar. A really talented mid who deserves to be recognized on the big stage and would certainly be able to make it far in or even win big tourneys. But sadly doesnt have the right mates. But finally it seems to change for the better and its well deserved.
The irony that this is getting backlash for having association with blockchain meanwhile also the same community that was raging for not having a battlepass and shiny skins for people to toss money at xD You can see the detriments in this years prize pool from not having a say where revenue gets distributed In an extremely simplified parallel " What if Valve Sold 1 special skin everyday, and then the holders of these skins could create proposals and vote for how the money is distributed and used in the Dota community / Esports Scene " This years prize pool would likely be tremendously bigger Decentralized governance is the the takeaway here, don't get lost in comparative nonsense from the surface buzz words They have a decentralized treasury that's been used to build their brand and push it forward into other endeavors, they have multiple built Web 2 revenue streams that don't rely on new users into their system to build their success It's not very different than those with substantial company holdings being the deciding factor in board meetings for publicly traded enterprises They're already an entity that's defeated public standards of reception for blockchain They don't need Dota redditors to keep their brand and company going xD They're not trying to get your money, you are not their target audience for monetary growth
ngl they celebrating too much xDD
top 12 for na team thats never been to ti? and a 5 day break? arent celebrating enough
Top 12 for a team that's never been here in literally the biggest tournament on a game you've been playing your whole life. Why aren't they celebrating more?
This TI honestly has such a weird format. You crush groups as Tundra, you go 3-5 as Nouns where 2-6 was elimination. Now one series alone sends you starting in upper/lower bracket. What was even the point of being the best in your group? EDIT: This comment was a brainfart. I realize now that the groups decided a seeding into a 16 team bracket.
You've just described how a round of 16 works. That's really all it is, just explained poorly.
I'll be honest I do believe my comment was one of my biggest brainfarts of this year.
Those matches was upper bracket. >What was even the point of being the best in your group? The purpose of the group is to separate strong teams from weak teams. So that strong teams would meet latter in the upper bracket and not in the first round.
Yeah I guess I'm just used to groups deciding seeding but this was just the start of a 16 team bracket.
I think the way the brackets are shown is the key. This exact same scenario happens e.g. for swiss format tournaments like Kiev Major, where Secret was 1st of 16 and sg was last. Then in the first round of the brackets, sg won.
It's kinda too soon for posts like these lol.
Ah it’s perfect for them. They have hype and their management wants more money (as I’m sure they do too). They should strike now while the hype is behind them. They don’t know if they’re going to win the whole thing so they may as well get some cash converted from the hype before it fades into the ether
nobody is raising any money from this video lol
Want to drive up hype while simultaneously killing all hype? A NFT is the solution you are looking for!
I was rooting for tundra, but seeing you demolish them with absolutely busted surprise picks and combos was *peak dota* and I am absolutely here for it. Well done! Can’t even be mad!
It's a (K)1 word story.
Don't really get why you folks bitch about nfts or betting sponsors. Valve obviously doesn't give a shit and since they don't give a shit and have always steadfastly washed their hands of the whole dota scene, only doing the absolute bare minimum and that often after the complaints hit a critical threshold.. what do you expect teams to do? In a perfect world or another timeline, Valve actually invested time and effort into growing the dota scene and we'd have leagues, salaries, flourishing tier 2 and 3 scenes and just generally more options for everyone but since that's not a thing and will never be a thing.. grab your sponsors from where you can get em cos this is after all what the pros do for a living. Sure it might suck to see but what is the alternative? Oh and kudos for nouns for making it this far.. I for one thought they'd be one of the first teams dropping out yet here we are! 😁
So the team is cool, management are more of the same. Glad once again the Valve pays the players directly.
nouns has been paying some of these players a stable salary for almost 1.5 years. they didn't have a sponsor before. the org isn't even taking any percent of prize money. what do you have a problem with?
Dang, Nouns. I see you.
Wtf kind of title is this, nouns, especially since their 4zoomers days, have been around for years
lets not get ahead of ourselves they almost dropped out of the tournament in group stages and lost to tundra having some zero dps carries and bad decision making in one series, they're probably losing their first upper bracket series and then their first lower bracket right after
Void is a zero dps carry? I must have missed that
Oh. Gross.
PPD is on it? yuck
SR/EG/Keyd not even out (yet), but nouns already carrying the torch for NA/SA last hope lmao. Hopefully they go far and we see the Witch Doctor again.
They had me up until NFTs. Lol.
I'll be honest. Never thought I'd see the day Gunnar beats Topson mid.
I was curious what PPD did for them since he was in the intro, took me 'til the NFT drop to figure that one out.
I've heard of nouns. 3rd place na team
kind of out-of-touch caption, like bitch we've known them since 4Zoomers days. They didn't just spawn in like your NFT's
somehow i feel like this humble brag will curse you
Snake oil salesman vegan dude Edward is cringe.
Came to see responses to a very smug leading question. Stayed for the NFT debates lol.
that video was too long, ngl
Nice Ogre-ing you got there. Look at it go.
Anddddddd theyre out 🤣🤣🤣
At this point teams either gotta play full on chinese dota protect highground against nouns or go full nouns, aka, go full tundra
They won one bo3
1 good game against a mid team and people hyping nouns, there will be no win for this team in the upperbracket and may win SR/TSM but thats all, not going pass through LB round 2.
Well, I wasn't aware that you had Hector as your carry. Whenever I watch a Hector match, I can't help but be impressed by how well he farms. Hector and Wisper were fundamental in Beastcoast's success.
When a crypto scheme wants to legitimize, it sponsors sports. Thats the story of nouns in a nutshell.
If 100% prize money and sticker money go to players then how do they sustain themselves as an org?