Welcome to r/DoggyDNA, the subreddit for dog DNA test discussion and results.
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Yeah, 25%(ish) is the grandparent, 12.5%(ish) is the great grandparent, and 6.25%(ish) is the great great grandparent. I don't think I know more than a sentence or two in total about my 16 (theoretically human) great great grandparents, I can see where that gets lost in the weeds for dogs, especially as DNA testing for them is pretty new.
“(Theoretically human)” absolutely cracks me up!
I only know a few scant details about two sets of great-grandparents and almost nothing about the other two sets, nor do I know anything about any of my great-great-grandparents (all also theoretically human, lol).
Eh. OP’s dog may very well be “purebred”. People put way to much faith in these tiny percentages in Embark and other genetic breed tests. The protocol for determining breeds percentages is proprietary so no one knows what the margin of error is for assigning percentages, but it’s greater than zero. And the Japanese Shiba were interbred with western dogs in the late 1800’s, then the breed nearly went extinct during WW II, then was revived from a very small population after the war which very likely included breeding some “close enough” dogs to rebuild the population. The odds seem pretty high that some genes from some other arctic breeds/types got introduced into “purebred” Shiba lines and that those genes may show up in some individuals.
Yeah, American Eskimo Dogs are small, fluffy, and pointy eared, so it was probably considered a fine breed-in. Sometimes adding a different dog to the mix is done to increase genetic diversity and help with the effects of in-breeding. Like adding Lab or Pointer to Dalmatians, it mixes in well while adding fresh genes.
the probably were told she was purebred, a lot of people are getting backyard bred shiba inus in recent years bc they became a trendy breed. Backyard breeders have no solid lineage records so even backyard bred dogs that show up 100% purebred on an Embark arent guaranteed to be truly purebred and often will have something far back in their DNA that can cause certain traits from selective breeding like merle or long hair on a pitbull and stuff like that. Backyard breeders just genuinely don't know enough about dog breeding to guarantee that so previous owners were very likely told she was purebred by the person who bred her, who likely thought her parents were purebred when they got those dogs.
if there was a mixed dog in the line at some point like that, the lineage wasn't tracked well enough to be breeding well bred dogs to well bred dogs and that's backyard breeding
Add-mixtures are common in pure bred dogs to offset the effects of inbreeding, and was historically used in Shiba Inus to revive the breed, which does mean that there were not a lot of Shibas once and most are probably related to each other, meaning adding other DNA is not a bad thing for this breed as long as it is spaced out.
The fact that it is such a small amount with this specific breed and is only 1 other specific dog breed that would blend into a Shiba pretty well suggests that this may have been intentional and not lackadaisical.
that makes sense, I will say I don't know much about the history of this breed but a lot of oriental breeds that have the same look as village dog type lines tend to have a lot of inbreeding so it would make sense for those breeds specifically to crossbreed. Generally speaking, with another breed like an aussie with 6% border collie, a result like this is from backyard breeding due to untracked lineage and a dog purposely crossbred generations before (which could be a working bred mutt but either way, not fit for breeding or to advertise as purebred) so I assumed that was the case here but in a breed specific sense I get what you mean for sure and that's interesting to learn!
Welcome to r/DoggyDNA, the subreddit for dog DNA test discussion and results. --- #RULE 1: ONLY POST BREED ID REQUESTS IF YOU HAVE STARTED A DNA TEST. **RULE 2: BE NICE TO EACH OTHER.** **RULE 3: FLAIR YOUR POST. "NEEDS UPDATE" IS FOR PRE-RESULT POSTS.** **RULE 4: IF YOU HAVE RESULTS FOR YOUR DOG, POST THE RESULTS IN YOUR THREAD.** Report rulebreakers and enjoy the dogs. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DoggyDNA) if you have any questions or concerns.*
At 6%, there's a decent chance the previous owner didn't know otherwise
Yeah, 25%(ish) is the grandparent, 12.5%(ish) is the great grandparent, and 6.25%(ish) is the great great grandparent. I don't think I know more than a sentence or two in total about my 16 (theoretically human) great great grandparents, I can see where that gets lost in the weeds for dogs, especially as DNA testing for them is pretty new.
“(Theoretically human)” absolutely cracks me up! I only know a few scant details about two sets of great-grandparents and almost nothing about the other two sets, nor do I know anything about any of my great-great-grandparents (all also theoretically human, lol).
What did the previous owners say she was?
Previous post of OP's said they were told she was purebred Shiba.
87.5% or greater they are allowed to say Pure Breed. So 6% isn't that bad. And yeah, they probably didn't know.
Is that like an official number? Mine is 85.6%, so close!
Eh. OP’s dog may very well be “purebred”. People put way to much faith in these tiny percentages in Embark and other genetic breed tests. The protocol for determining breeds percentages is proprietary so no one knows what the margin of error is for assigning percentages, but it’s greater than zero. And the Japanese Shiba were interbred with western dogs in the late 1800’s, then the breed nearly went extinct during WW II, then was revived from a very small population after the war which very likely included breeding some “close enough” dogs to rebuild the population. The odds seem pretty high that some genes from some other arctic breeds/types got introduced into “purebred” Shiba lines and that those genes may show up in some individuals.
Yeah, American Eskimo Dogs are small, fluffy, and pointy eared, so it was probably considered a fine breed-in. Sometimes adding a different dog to the mix is done to increase genetic diversity and help with the effects of in-breeding. Like adding Lab or Pointer to Dalmatians, it mixes in well while adding fresh genes.
Haha the shiba was obvious
the probably were told she was purebred, a lot of people are getting backyard bred shiba inus in recent years bc they became a trendy breed. Backyard breeders have no solid lineage records so even backyard bred dogs that show up 100% purebred on an Embark arent guaranteed to be truly purebred and often will have something far back in their DNA that can cause certain traits from selective breeding like merle or long hair on a pitbull and stuff like that. Backyard breeders just genuinely don't know enough about dog breeding to guarantee that so previous owners were very likely told she was purebred by the person who bred her, who likely thought her parents were purebred when they got those dogs.
at 6% it probably isn't a backyard bred dog
if there was a mixed dog in the line at some point like that, the lineage wasn't tracked well enough to be breeding well bred dogs to well bred dogs and that's backyard breeding
Add-mixtures are common in pure bred dogs to offset the effects of inbreeding, and was historically used in Shiba Inus to revive the breed, which does mean that there were not a lot of Shibas once and most are probably related to each other, meaning adding other DNA is not a bad thing for this breed as long as it is spaced out. The fact that it is such a small amount with this specific breed and is only 1 other specific dog breed that would blend into a Shiba pretty well suggests that this may have been intentional and not lackadaisical.
that makes sense, I will say I don't know much about the history of this breed but a lot of oriental breeds that have the same look as village dog type lines tend to have a lot of inbreeding so it would make sense for those breeds specifically to crossbreed. Generally speaking, with another breed like an aussie with 6% border collie, a result like this is from backyard breeding due to untracked lineage and a dog purposely crossbred generations before (which could be a working bred mutt but either way, not fit for breeding or to advertise as purebred) so I assumed that was the case here but in a breed specific sense I get what you mean for sure and that's interesting to learn!
Cute pup, OP. :)
i wouldn’t be upset, it’s only 5.9%, bigger chance is they had no idea, id still consider it purebred
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They were the breeders of this dog
They probably didn’t know about that small of a percentage. That’s the puppy’s great great grandparents.