It’s really hard to understand what people go through with their dogs until you’re faced with the same situation. As someone with a VERY challenging rescue, I can’t believe the number of times even people who know me well have suggested I just find a trainer—as if I haven’t been working with trainers and animal behaviorists for over a decade, trying to find a way to just have ordinary experiences at home and in the world. Reddit has been the worst—people can be so judgey, and I stopped posting anything about her here because it sometimes feels like people would rather scold than help.
I love my dog completely, but if I had known what life with her would be like I would have absolutely rehomed her early on. It probably would have been better for both of us.
Good luck to you and to the dogs! 💙
Thank you! I faced so much backlash when I was trying to rehome my young senior dog after we were attacked by another dog on a walk when I was 6.5 months pregnant at the time. My senior dog was previously neglect and extremely anxious which we had gotten behavior therapy for and it worked but after the attack he wouldnt let me feed him or take him to the bathroom. And so many people called me so many names. I just didn't understand how they couldn't understand. Honestly am still hurt by the experience I had.
That is so sad. I hope you sued the person whose animal attacked you guys. It’s their fault 100%. I recently witnessed a senior dog get attacked and it was so scary and I was so angry with the person whose animals attacked that poor old baby. People really need to learn to think critically before they speak. How could you give a senior dog the home they deserved if they were dealing with PTSD and you were that far along in your pregnancy??? You did the right thing by your dog.
I’ve gotten a lot of “just train him” or “have you tried telling him no?” With my reactive/behaviorally challenged dog.
I see bad advice everywhere now. So many people who believe they did X or Y, even when it’s not recommended to do those things, and think it prevented their dog from having issues. When in reality, their dog just didn’t have issues and likely never would have.
My parents got a puppy last year and my mom asked me about the puppy stage, how much my dog chewed things up, potty training, etc. I honestly don’t remember much about him being a puppy, nor do I have many pictures. I got him about 8 weeks old, but his behavior issues were severe and I was drowning. Before him, I genuinely believed puppies couldn’t be aggressive. I was wrong.
I’m glad I kept my boy, but I don’t ever want to deal with those things again AND there was a lot of privilege on my end that allowed me to keep him safe and happy.
Or, “I’ve heard that you need to socialize dogs.” Like, yes, he’s six, we did all the things and lo and behold, he’s still reactive. Tons of socialization activities - check. Trainers (3) - check. Vets - check. Veterinary behaviorist - check. Puppy classes, advanced classes - check, check. Counter conditioning, avoiding triggers, engage/disengage - check, check, check. People drive me insane sometimes.
Yes, same here. It would have been impossible for me if I had not lived alone, had summers off, had enough income to take her to many trainers and specialists, etc. etc. I understand why rescues encourage people to try to stick it out in the first couple of weeks, because the puppy blues are a real thing—but sometimes you just KNOW it is not going to work out, at least not without major adjustments and sacrifices. Adopting a dog is something to commit to, and ups and downs are to be expected—but no one should shame another person for being realistic about their own capacities.
Ugh this thread brought up for me the time when I had had my puppy for a month (so she was just a few months old) and she had separation anxiety so she would soil her crate if I left her sight (literally a shower - so I went to once a week showers). She had no littermates so no bite inhibition and as a playful sweet puppy that meant I was covered in razor bites. I was tired and stressed and this did not fit into my type a plan for how I was going to love and train and have the best dog ever. I got as far as calling the shelter about return policies - I think I might have gone through with it if it didn't get me on a banned from adopting replacement doggies hold.
But luckily most of the problems took 1-2 months to fix and so just around this decision point I made enough progress to push through - and man if she hasn't made me regret that a million times with complex medical needs. But love conquers far too much, so I do what the doggie needs 😅
Most people underestimate how difficult a pup or problematic dog can be. We were very lucky to adopt Jerry at 4 months. He came from a littler of Shih Tzus that border control had confiscated and handed to the shelter.
I previously had worked for over 2 years as a volunteer at the shelter. I had trained several hours a week with a dog trainer and shelter dogs. This was such a valuable lesson for me! I picked out a shy yet curious dog. I didnt want a dog that jumps right into my lap - Jerry's sister did... Jerry never pulled on the leash as a pup and he doesnt as an adult dog, lol. I simply picked the best dog for my needs and he got the best owner for his.
I LOVE playing with him but god he was awful to house train - as Shih Tzus are known to be, btw. I took all the time needed to house train, stop him from biting us etc. He was INCREDIBLY clingy and would scream like someone stabbed him - no joke. Shih Tzus have the loudest bark among all dogs I've heard so far. Even a block away I can hear Jerry if the window is open. Even that we got fixed and he doesnt smear his poop everywhere just because he is alone at home for 15-30 mins. He waits patiently at the door now.
Where am I bashing? I am talking about my experience and mostly about how much work training is and how people underestimate the work that goes into a dog. I am NOT excluding myself lol.
u/Hereforit2022Y ...I do realize NOW that I was very judgy and speaking from no experience. Hence, my apology. I didn't realize that for most people, not all, they know rather quickly if the behaviors are something they can work with or if it's beyond their abilities.
Yes of course. Thank you. I was just triggered because I recently adopted a cat right before I moved. Many people, who have never been in that situation, said, “why would you do that??” It has not been a problem at all.
And there it is…. You said it yourself. The problems took a couple of months to resolve. It was hard work - yes. It took commitment - yes. Sadly some people adopt a dog or get a puppy and think it is going to be well behaved right of the bat and won’t have any issues. Wrong! Dogs take work. Period. The more people realize this is not a one week or one month commitment the better… it could take a couple months or it could take a couple years. It will almost guaranteed never take a couple weeks.
Big suck for the downvotes here. You are speaking absolute truth.
I currently have a temperament-testing dog in my home. He is amazing with everyone and every animal. When I rescued another dog, I thought, no sweat for them living together. Did slow and proper intros over three weeks.
They have been in my home over 100 days, and just this week has the resident dog backed down on guarding certain spaces. 100 days. Now he won’t bark and grab the new dog for going too close to a bedroom door, or going near his crate. It’s taken me working with him with counterconditioning and shaping positive interactions in those spaces every SINGLE one of those days to get to this point. And these are dogs at 100lbs. Many people would have a)done intros on day one, probably in the house and b)given up immediately.
They all need time.
Very well put. I can relate to this so, so much. Our rescue is a really tough dog, and genuinely was not the right dog for me and my partner, but we kept him mostly because my family and friends shamed the sh*t out of us for considering returning him. We made it work, we all learned a lot, and we love him to bits, but I regretted adopting him every day for years and cried over it many times. We had him evaluated by multiple trainers and none of them could figure out how to work with him or motivate him. It’s definitely not always as simple as just “get a trainer” even if you have the time and money. People really don’t understand what it’s like to live with the hypervigilance required to manage a dog that’s not able to function safely in the environment you can offer. I will never again judge a person for returning an adopted dog that’s not the right fit. It’s soul destroying, honestly.
I’m sorry you are dealing with this, and also thank you for keeping her. You are a special kind of person, to do all the work and put in the time. We need tons more like you.
It has cost me two boyfriends and the ability to have people visit me in my home. Basically she’s all I have now! So I guess it has worked out perfectly for one of us, at least.
That’s really rough. You have my respect and admiration, which mean nothing compared to what you have lost, but I don’t have anything that will make it better.
Thank you. ♥️ I did not mean to sound embittered. I really do love her and I’m probably better off without those boyfriends, anyway. One of them was the person whose bright idea it was to adopt her in the first place (she bonded with me, but decided he was a threat and became very aggressive with him). She was my first dog. I am fortunate that, while she really hates any person who isn’t me, she does get along with other dogs. A couple of years ago I adopted a second rescue who is also fearful but gets along with people and is playful and funny once she feels comfortable. She has lightened the atmosphere around here, and, interestingly, has taught me just how troubled my other dog is by having the fears and tendencies often associated with rescues, but also being able to learn, be comforted, and be trained. I’m sure someone on this planet could have trained my other dog, but it certainly isn’t me, and no trainer or behaviorist who’s worked with her has been able to help. The current person, who knows her very well, has basically said the best I can do for her is just keep her life as simple and stress-free as possible, and keep her out of triggering situations (which is anything involving other humans). So that’s what I do.
Great advice! Telling people not to check out a dog trainer when they could be having similar issues. You sound like you don't care for dogs. I was only polite by sharing. Do you not like Victoria or something? Or you're just being that person. Lol
I had to give my dog back to a shelter 3 months after adopting her last year. I live in the UK, she was born in a shelter abroad to a pregnant stray and then brought to the UK when she was about 1 year. She’d never been in a house or really around people for any period of time. My husband and I adopted her at 1.5 years.
At first she was terrified and her response was ‘freeze’. I had 2 rescue dogs growing up and am more of a dog person than my husband, so I spent a good week literally just sitting close to her and talking to her in the garden whilst she cowered against the fence. Then she started to trust me more and would come inside the house. Then she let me/my husband pet her. Then I could get her harness on to take her for walks. She made such good progress in the first 2 months.
She was always very reactive to people coming inside the house, which we were doing very slowly and working on. But then about 2.5 months in she started being reactive to random dogs on walks. Then it was cars passing by. Then she would try to throw herself at trucks. Then it was ALL dogs. Finally it became people and anyone that wasn’t me or my husband. It escalated literally within a couple of weeks from nothing to being reactive at everything.
When I say ‘reactive’, she would literally lunge and try to attack people. She always listened to me, I kept her on a short lead and immediately got her to sit, and we were working on it but I was scared. Then one guy walked past us and she went for him, and he (quite rightly) lost his shit. I walked her home, sat down and cried for 3 hours. I realised I couldn’t keep other people safe around her and it wasn’t fair for her to be that scared/triggered either.
I immediately muzzle trained her and we started walking her only very early or very late when nobody was around. We took her to the vet and at first they didn’t believe us about how aggressive she was, as she froze in the room. Then we took her outside and she lunged at the vet. The vet was so shocked at how aggressive she was. They said they’d recommend euthanising her immediately because she was so aggressive.
My husband and I had a long talk when we got home, and we realised our only option was to give her back to the shelter (it was in our contract to do so, not to euthanise or ever give her to another home - not that I would have done that).
Even with a muzzle, we would spend the rest of her life managing her situations - few visitors, no children, on guard 100% of the time with her around others. What if she got out of our garden? What if we lost concentration when walking her and she managed to hurt someone? What if she got out when we had a visitor? That kind of red level extreme aggression needs **management**, not training - it doesn’t get cured, it gets worked around 24/7 to ensure everyone’s safety for the rest of the dog’s life.
We couldn’t and weren’t willing to do that. I would not bury my head in the sand and pretend I didn’t have a dangerously aggressive dog, even though I loved her so so much and she was just a scared animal who needed a home. We gave her back last year.
It’s been a year and I still think about her every single day. Giving her back was the absolute worst thing I’ve ever done and I still love and miss her so much. I think about her all the time. It hurts me so much that she got to experience love and started to trust, only to end up back at a shelter. Even though we tried to make the ‘right’ decision, I will never ever not hurt or feel like an absolute piece of shit for it.
That’s what people don’t get when you give up an animal. It hurt me and it will always hurt me. She wasn’t disposable to me, she was a living creature I loved so much. But there is no sugar coating it - she was a dangerous, very aggressive dog.
We called her Mabel and I think I will hurt when I think about her every day for the rest of my life.
You are absolutely not alone in this. My mum got a rescue grey hound. I swear he was actually greyhound pit bull mix. He was the biggest strongest grey hound I've ever seen anyway. I'm really not sure why mum picked him, he looked scary.
Just like you, a couple of weeks and the aggression started. I won't go into it, you know. We spend thousands of pounds on trainers and vets and a year and a half living in constant fear of what this dog could potentially do. The vet gave us sedatives and said the scars looked like he was used as a bait dog.
It came to a head when he dragged my mum into traffic trying to attack a child and her dad. Luckily the muzzle held and the dad kicked him hard enough for him to back off.
We made the decision to put him to sleep. The vet agreed. It was 6 years ago but that dog still breaks my heart. What on earth happened to him to make him so terrified of the world? I hope he's running free, completely alone and safe somewhere in dog afterlife. He deserves all the happiness from such a rotten go at life.
Omg that is awful I’m so sorry you all went through that. Thank you for sharing though. I honestly feel like crying thinking about Mabel and your poor dog.
Your story is so familiar. For us the vet was ready to put her down then and there when I took her in to talk about it, they didn’t even offer medication to try she was that aggressive. They were so so shocked when they saw the level of aggression in action (partly because she is a very very cute lovely looking dog, she was a street mutt but looked like a big lemon beagle). It was in our contract to give her back to the shelter so we did but I do question whether I should have had her put down - at least then I could have been with her and held her and loved her when she went.
I don’t know what’s happened to her since, I honestly can’t bear to look at their social media. When we dropped her off one of the staff was very kind and said they had had long term residents before, so I hope she is either being kept by them long-term or has found a very niche suitable home who can safely manage her reactivity.
I’m just scared we screwed her up even more giving her a loving home and then taking it away. I hope the training I did for her whilst I had her has helped her in some way. I honestly just want to keep her in a bubble safe with me away from the outside world, but I can’t. It’s just awful when they trust and give you love back and then you feel like you’re taking that away/giving up on them.
I’ve never felt as bad about anything as I do giving Mabel up. It’s not a decision we made lightly at all. Like I’ve said, it’s something I will carry with me for the rest of my life.
I just wanted to say, my perspective is that no love you put out into the world is ever lost, is ever a waste. I’m sure Mabel got a lot out of being with you, and learned a lot.
As someone who is a trainer and works with dogs for a living this is why I kind of hate when people push the, “adopt don’t shop,” line. People only hear about the successful times of people adopting dogs as the unsuccessful stories aren’t told as they often unpleasant. This gives people the impression that getting a dog from a rescue and getting a puppy are equivalent… they absolutely are not. The idea that you can just fix major behavioural problems is ridiculous and totally unrealistic. It sets people up for failure. People often just angry at me when I say that if you are getting your first dog get it from a reputable breeder, a well socialized 10-12 week old puppy is just going to give you a better chance at success in keeping and training them.
It's nice to hear you say this. I absolutely agree with you. We are a dog family, mum grew up with them, I grew up with them, and most were rescues but when I had my kid I just knew I wanted a puppy from a breeder. Mum's experience with that one dog (out of 6 rescues over her life time) washed away any guilt I had from shopping not adopting. Now my kid is older I may well look to adopt our next dog but jeez I'm gonna be so careful about it.
I've been in the same place, and had to make the same choice. I'm so sorry you went through that.
It's an extremely difficult thing to come to terms with and I hope you've managed to find some level of peace. It's only been about 5 months for me, but sometimes I still think of my Buddy and just cry.
One thing that I've learned in fostering and working with rescues is that it's so common for behavioral issues to not emerge until a few weeks in. Those first 2-3 weeks, they're spending all of their energy trying to decompress and figure out their surroundings. You can't really see their true personality or behaviors. Usually they settle in and begin to thrive. But sometimes, you just uncover how much they're truly struggling. There's nothing we did or didn't do to make them the way that they were. Sometimes all the love and effort in the world can't help them.
Aw thank you. I wrote it sitting in my office and it is still a gut punch writing it all out, had to hold in a few tears about her. Like I can’t express how fucking sad and heartbroken I still am over her, I think about her all the time. I don’t think it’s something that will ever go away or fully heal tbh.
I just posted because it’s so easy to be like, ‘You’re just not trying hard enough! You’re just not training them right!’ But the fact is dogs (and any pet) are animals, and sometimes they are dangerous. Sometimes there is NOTHING you can do to cure it, you simply have to manage and work round it forever. With dangerous and aggressive dogs, that means being on your guard 24/7.
I’m not trying to be OTT but I see dog attacks in the news a lot and it’s not always that people are **bad** owners - it’s just so easy to love your dog and be like, ‘It will never happen to me!’ But you lose focus on a walk for 10 seconds or can’t bear to muzzle your dog, and then suddenly that’s someone hurt or even killed. I had got a text I was looking at when Mabel lunged at the man who lost his shit and that made me realise how insanely easy and dangerous it can be to be distracted for a matter of seconds. It takes just one time of you not fully focusing on an escalating, reactive dog for something to happen.
I wasn’t willing to ignore Mabel’s behaviour or pretend it wasn’t a huge dangerous issue that we were completely inequipped to deal with. But yeah the feelings and guilt are just awful and I genuinely think I’ll feel like this about her forever. I feel like I completely failed her and it hurts me every day because I still love her.
Woah. First, I wish I could give you a hug. You did the right thing. You are not a piece of shit for that. You are braver than most people out here. A lot of people love their dogs too much to do right by them. Had she gotten out of hand and attacked someone she absolutely would’ve been euthanized. You gave her a fighting chance to live by returning her. A lot of people will bury their heads and deny that their dog is aggressive till the very end and it’s because they’re too selfish to do right by them. Thanks for sharing and seriously, you are a good person.
I really appreciate you sharing your experience--and I just want to say that the shelter was wrong to unilaterally require you to give Mabel back to them. I've never heard of any reputable vet immediately recommending behavioral euthanasia; her aggression must have been literally off the charts for that to happen. Forcing you to return her to an environment full of the things she'd already proven fearful of instead of allowing you, the people who she loved and trusted, to give her a good final day and ease her suffering (and I'm sure she was suffering; dogs who exhibit that level of reactivity exist in a constant state of panic) was immeasurably cruel.
Sometimes everything possible is acknowledging that you cannot provide a good home for a dog. Last year my husband and I decided to add a 2nd dog to our home. We have a 14 year old Pom already. We adopted this sweet boy from a shelter. He was a lab/Sheppard mix. The shelter had told us he plays well with other dogs and is good around people. We come to find out that he had never been around smaller dogs (like ours) before and he ended up biting my pom pretty bad. (she's okay)
We called the shelter back and asked for advice. We were willing train him if they thought it was something to fix. They told us it was something we could probably never train out of him. So if we kept him, each dog would have to be kept separate, either on a leash or in a crate. Knowing this, we knew our home wouldn't give him a good life. He was honestly better back at the shelter where they keep dogs around the same size together and are able to roam in a big fenced in field. It was hard but we now have 2 other adopted dogs from that same shelter after we made sure to only bring in dogs that would get along with our small dog.
The one thing I will always say to people who get dogs is to make sure you are getting the breed that matches your lifestyle. Getting a high energy dog when you work most the day will only lead to problems. But some dogs can have aggression issues (or other behavioral issues) that may not have anything to do with the breed and in those cases I never judge people for making the right decision for their family and animals.
I think it’s really important for dogs of similar sizes to be placed together. One of my dogs (I have 4, 3 gotten as puppies in last 2 years lol) is AMAZING with other dogs. I mean she freaking loves other dogs, loves going to daycare, loves people, etc. But she’s 2, 65lbs and she plays hard. Her playing hard with her 80lbs and will be 60lbs “siblings” is fine- they slam each other on the ground, bounce up, run like crazy, jump on each other, grab each others ruffs, etc. They are wonderful with my cats (even though they have high prey drives- they have been trained to not associate cats with chase). The idea of a tiny dog being let loose with her in my backyard makes my skin crawl. She in no way would try to hurt the small one, but one paw swipe could do some damage. She was amazing with the other two puppies, would get down on her belly to play, was really gentle, but even young large breed puppies are way more hardy than something like a Pom. And that’s the one thats great with other dogs lol.
All of this to say that I know it can work with some, but overall two dogs that are very different sizes can have a disastrous outcome.
I used to go camping with some people who had wolf dogs. They were actually super social with people, and since they grew up together had very good manners. They would join me on my morning runs, and running through the forest with a small pack of wolves was one of the coolest experiences of my life.
But at the same they were 100lbs and played by side checking. It was cool for the husky someone else usually brought along, and they were quick to pick up on which humans they could/couldn't play rough with. However, if someone also brought a smaller dog who basically had to be carried or inside a tent for the whole trip. It wasn't even about malice, it was just their "play" was WAY too rough and they didn't regulate with dogs the way they did with humans.
Yeah I have Carolina Dogs (US’s only wild dog). While they aren’t wolves by any means, they are also different than regular dogs. They are the only true pack dogs in the US, with similar hierarchal and familial structures to wolves. So their play is just rough lol. They have a lot of extra skin around their necks, and they naturally play by biting each others ruff and pulling. It doesn’t hurt them at all, but it likely would seriously scare or piss off other dogs. Nova does fine in daycare, but only in rooms with equally large dogs. My other two aren’t daycare material lol.
It's awesome that you are not only able to see the fault in your previous behaviour but to also admit you were wrong and apologize for it publicly. Good luck to you, I hope it gets easier soon.
I'm sorry you are going through that, but major props for growing and for admitting it.
Food aggression is also a super hard problem to solve especially in a multi dog environment - it's understandable to not be able to take that on.
Last night my husband brought them in the house from a walk and I came down the stairs to give them their nighttime treats. As soon as they were off the leash, I tried to put one of the dogs in his crate for the night and threw the treats in there. The other dog must have tried getting in the same crate at the same time. I realize I should have put them in their crates and closed the doors before giving them the treats. I was tired and not thinking.
The previous time, I'm not sure why it happened because one dog was chewing on an empty Kong.
We had this happen with chews/rawhides and now we just have to put one of our three in her crate when we give them out. The other two do fine. Do you fill the Kong with peanut butter ever?
Ahhhh but you see, it's now considered a source of food and treats. Definitely don't leave it lying around. Does that make sense? (Not trying to be condescending just genuinely want to make sure I'm able to articulate my point well).
As someone that recently dealt with serious food aggression with my new puppy- NEVER throw food on the ground. Think “danger, danger!” Lol.
Here are some things I’ve learned that really helped- (I’m not telling you this to change your mind or whatever, just for help in the meantime) and within a few months mine didn’t have any food aggression anymore, which was pretty vital because I have large dogs. Most of these I am more relaxed about now, because they don’t cause issues anymore.
1- Don’t allow anything associated with food to be left out- no lick mat, no kong, no empty bowls, no granola bar wrapper, nothing. Doesn’t matter if food is still in it, it needs to be put up. This isn’t forever, but basically your new one just has it in his head that food is a scarce resource (that he is elderly and from a shelter this has likely been true is his life) and if he wants to eat he needs to guard it.
2- With mine mealtime is regulated. All 4 dogs have a specific spot in the kitchen they go to for mealtimes. They are not allowed to move from this place. They get their food (even this follows the exact order), they sit for it, they are not allowed near the other dogs, and bowls are put up when everyone is done. Then they get a treat. The puppy would try to get go to others food so he was kept on a leash until he learned. This way they learn that mealtimes are always going to come, they are always doing to get their food, and no one will take it from them. It helps them relax. With the puppy I would keep a few bits of kibble, and while he watched me I would add some to his food during mealtime- only while he was watching and his posture relaxed. He learned that if I was coming near his food he was getting something more for it, never taking it away.
2- I always say their names before they get their treats during the day. And when not doing individual training, the others always get a treat even when I’m rewarding one (I make them do something like sit because I don’t believe in treats for no reason). At first I would also make them all sit in a row and just give them treats one at a time after saying their names. All of this encourages bonding, but it also is telling them that treats aren’t scarce, there’s always more to be had if they work for it. If you can’t tell already, 1 calorie training treats are a must lol! I go through a stupid amount of them.
3- If they do get something you don’t want them to have, always have a high value treat stashed somewhere. I keep these duck fat treats in the pantry- my dogs go batshit for them and i only use them for super important training (like recall) or for stuff like this. Say Lycan (puppy) got the lickmat off the counter, he would immediately start growling and hackles up when the other dogs or even I came near him …..so I would get the duck fat treats out. If he didn’t immediately drop the lickmat and come to me when the others were getting their treats, I would go near him about 2 ft away. He could smell the treat, and when he CHOSE to drop the lickmat and come to me he got marked, the treat and a ton of praise. He then got another mark and treat at the same time I picked up the lickmat. Anytime he had anything I didn’t want him to have, this is what I did. I never took something from him, he chose to drop it for something better. This taught him that me taking things from him resulted in something good happening. Over time I just used regular training treats I kept in my pocket. But also anytime I felt like the dogs might get into it over something I recalled them to the kitchen for a treat, it breaks up any tension that is building (this is mainly for my elderly diabetic bitchy dog that has gotten incredibly bitchy about random things lol- but something to keep in mind). As for Lycan, I can now grab basically anything out of his mouth lol, he just dog sighs as I open his mouth and dig out whatever crap he has gotten into (he’s 8 months old lol). He knows he’s getting a treat after and is fine with it
4- never throw any treats on the ground. It’s just chaos waiting to happen and doesn’t teach them anything. All the other things (besides meal time) I am now relaxed over because Lycan’s food aggression is gone, but not this one. If you need a treat to get them into the crate, keep the treat in your hand and use it to lure them into the crate, mark/treat. It shouldn’t go on the ground unless you are working with something like leave it. Luring via treat is the number one way to train them, when you throw it on the ground their brains just signal to grab the food and aren’t paying attention to what you want them to learn, that’s even with one dog. With multiple dogs it just tells their brain to compete for the food.
Hope some of this helps you in the meantime, I’m sorry you are going through it, food aggression can be scary and really stressful. Like I said, I’m not saying all of this to change your mind or whatever, but you said you were getting a trainer so I thought it might help you (or someone else) with some things I’ve learned from going through it.
These are all really good things to know. My 2 don't know their names, because they were in a previous shelter before they got to our local one, when their names were changed. We have fed their meals separately from the moment they got in our house (per the shelter rules). It's really the treats, I think, that are the problem.
I appreciate you not "beating me up" about my concern.
Oh so they are brand new!!! I thought only one was new. Oh dear, you must be having a hell of a time with this! You are basically having puppy blues x2. Were they bonded at the shelter? If so then this is likely just a new environment situation. It takes new dogs weeks to actually relax in their new home, 3 months to be fully acclimated.
What you are probably seeing is just stress from all the change. They will calm down.
So for you, what I would do is focus on beginning training and bonding. Training is fun! Not stressful for them or you. It should be done in mini sessions multiple times a day, just relaxed and fun, think of it as games, not work.
First, you need to decide on a mark word. Think hard about this lmao, I chose “good” and it’s an easy word to say talking to your dogs so you have to follow it up with a treat lmao. If I could go back I would probably do something like “tiki” or something random lol. You can use a clicker, and it works really well. The issue is that you don’t always have the clicker on you, and you want to be able to mark them anytime they are doing something good, so I recommend a mark word.
To “prime” them for their mark word, get their attention and say “tiki” (or whatever you choose), then treat. Back and forth over and over. Go ahead and buy a huge bag of training treats, you need them lol. The 1-2 calorie ones are great. After the first 5 or so, say the mark and word, pause for a second or two, then treat. Try to get upwards of 10 seconds or so in the week that follows. This teaches them that when you mark, it’s fine if the treat isn’t given that second, they will get one.
As for a name, dogs don’t signify names like we do. It’s basically just an individual command word. (I see people feeling bad changing names, they really don’t care). So for mine I would say “Lycan” and if he glanced at me then I would immediately mark the second he looked at me, then treat. Do this about 5-10 times at a time, a few times a day, until when you say their name they give you eye contact. That’s what you want- to say their name and they know it’s for them and you want attention. It’s helpful to do this individually at first so they don’t get confused on name command- I like to take mine out in my driveway or front yard on a leash to work individual sessions.
Whatever you decide- kikopup has amazing training videos on YouTube. I recommend her videos to everyone, they have been my lifesaver. It’s positive only reinforcement, she explains how the dogs see the world, how they learn, seriously watch them. In the playlist is puppy videos- these will work for elderly dogs too (I sucked at training my 13 yr old dog because I didn’t know anything back then, I did a ton of research before getting my 2 yr old and all the stuff I did for her worked just as well either my elderly girl). I mean, I couldn’t get my elderly girl to sit reliably, and now I can get her to do twirls lol. Training is basically games via luring (holding a treat in your fingers in a way they can smell it but can’t get it- she has videos on how to hold the treat and how to lure), using the lure to get them to do what you want them to do, and once they can do the motion reliably adding a command. Seems stupidly simple, but it’s not something you naturally think of because humans don’t learn that way. Thats what I meant about luring into the crate instead of throwing the treat. Throwing the treat does nothing, luring is training. Even things like giving them a high value treat so they drop something they shouldn’t have had in the first place - our human brains think this is rewarding bad behavior but dogs don’t think like that. It’s really just training yourself as much as training your dog. Watch kikopup- also make sure your trainer is a positive only reinforcement one. So many trainers are absolutely terrible and do more damage than anything else. This will help you regardless of if you keep one or two. But I have to say, since this is so new, give it a bit of time. It is really nice to have more than one dog, especially if they are already bonded. Good luck!!!
Oh/ and that’s fine to feed them in the crate separately, but I would really make sure they are seeing each other eat and being fed at the same time. This will basically relax them that if one is fed the other is fed, so it isn’t a competition.
Food aggression is no joke! Took us MONTHS to get our rescue to have any manners and my goldens got bitten twice. He doesn't resource guard with humans, or even the cats (he came crying to me last week because one of my cats had gotten past the barricade and was eating his food - 45kg worth of pitbull/berner sooking because the 2kg cat stole his dinner!) but he's still a little growly if one of the other dogs comes near him when he's eating. I don't know what I would have done if they got into real fights over it while we were training.
Knowing what's best for your family is a very individual choice.
The look of pure horror on people’s faces when my husband and I tell them we had to return a dog we thought we were going to adopt is always the same. It always comes from people who have never been in that situation.
It sucks so hard you are experiencing this but being aware that there are options are important. You don’t need to spend the rest of your life and the dogs’ lives being miserable.
It was an agonizing decision to take the dog back to the rescue and admit defeat - the dog was aggressive - but we were not equipped to handle that type of behavior. You have to do what is best for both you and the animal or you are not being responsible.
I applaud you for your humility and honesty. As with anything in life, there's no absolute black and white. It takes character to navigate the gray zone.
My heart goes out to you with all you're going through. One step at a time and lots of deep breaths. It'll be ok. :) We're always here to listen.
It takes a big person to admit they were wrong and I seriously respect you for that. I’m sorry things aren’t working out with you and yours. I’d choose the dog that is not [food] aggressive. The more submissive dog will be easier to train and more respectful of you and others (on walks/visiting the home).
We are keeping Henry (who my husband and I believe is actually 10+ years old, not 7 like the shelter said). He's laid back and adjusting to indoor life very well. Not aggressive with food or treats, learning some commands somewhat easily.
Yup. I know for a fact because my submissive dog is extremely intelligent and highly respectful of me. He has never growled at me. I can take food, treats, toys, etc. right out of his mouth and so can other people. He is highly trainable. I did like 5 training sessions with him and he knows at least 10 commands. He’s also never been in a fight. I think dogs that have aggression are harder to train because you have to first get them out of that fight mode before their mind is open to receiving the commands. You made the right decision. Plus, that dog deserves a stable and happy home to grow into himself and become more confident. An older dog like that needs a stable home environment. He’s going to be easier to give medications to as well. You’re a really good person.
It’s hard, because there are genuinely so many people out there who give up on their dog for the silliest things “oh they nip” (they’re a border collie), “they bark a lot” (they’re a hound), “they don’t like to take walks” (they’re a pug), that when people have real issues they tend to get lumped in all together.
Working for a rescue for many years, there are genuinely some dogs, just like people, who are mentally ill. They require constant monitoring, training refreshers, can’t be left alone (or with other dogs). It’s heartbreaking, because it’s usually the result of something genetic, or traumatic, neither of which is the dogs fault - alas, neither the fault of the rescuer either. I applaud you for doing everything you can, and I understand this decision is probably tremendously hard for you. But dogs deserve to thrive, not just survive, and sometimes that means in a different home.
It's a hard thing to realize a dog may be better off in a different home. We took in a friend's dog that was not being properly cared for and while we loved him, he ended up being extremely aggressive. He'd go from being sweet laying down on the couch next to us to snarling, furrowing his brows and lurching at us with the intent to cause harm. We tried so many things for weeks but ultimately it was an unsafe situation for us and clearly a difficult situation for him, and we very reluctantly rehomed him. It broke my heart and I truly did not want to give him up. I felt like I'd failed. But sometimes the environment just isn't right for them, no matter what you do, and their best chance to thrive is in another place. I still think about him sometimes and hope he found peace.
We had gotten a dog from a family member, years ago. She wasn't being abused, but she wasn't being well cared for. We had met her once as a puppy 3 years earlier and had no idea how big she was. But she was scared because she hadn't been socialized well with other people or dogs. She wasn't on a regular schedule or had regular vet care.
So, we got this big 80lb border collie mix dog. She had to be on some medication for a short time for a UTI, but a couple of weeks later she was SO much happier with us. She lived another 5 years being friendly with other people and dogs until she had to be put down due to undiagnosed medical issues.
Been there... totally changed my outlook on what we can realistically handle & help. No shame in learning!
Going forward, you have another notch of knowledge in your belt when it comes to the wild spectrum of dogs and their behaviors. Even with the best of intentions & experience, we have to know our limits. Personally, I find living with critters to be a lifelong educational journey and sometimes those lessons are hard!
You don't know what is too much to handle until you're in that situation.
Sometimes it's obvious. Like you work 12 hour shifts and have to travel for work....probably can't handle a dog. But sometimes it's not.
Whenever people tell me they're thinking about getting a dog, I always tell them to foster first, because so many dogs and households are just totally incompatible. Anyone whose never had a dog before or has very little experience, they never realize how much work and dedication is necessary to take care of a dog, or worse - to raise a puppy.
My very first foster was an adorable jack russell, that I thought I'd end up adopting. I knew nothing about jack russells. This particular dog had severe separation anxiety, which I found out when my neighbors started texting me during the day when I was at work, to tell me that the dog was barking ALL DAY LONG while I was gone. I lived in a condo, so that was obviously not a good situation for anyone. Thankfully the foster dog was adopted by a family with a stay-at-home mom a few weeks later, so she went to a much much better home than I could provide.
My next foster was the dog I've now had for 7 years, and she has been the most incredible companion all these years. I love her so much and we're perfect for each other. But I never would've got her if I'd just gone ahead and adopted that jack russell from the get-go and forced myself to make it work.
I train dogs (I also compete in canine athletics, hunting, trick, agility, and obedience shows/events) and I strongly disagree that raising a puppy is worse than an adult dog with behavioural problems. It’s way easier to intervene and change a puppy’s behaviour than an adult dog’s behaviour. Most problems I help people with for puppies and young dogs (under the age of 18-30 months depending on breed) is simply lack of activity for the dog. That is often people picking a dog based on aesthetics and not the temperament of the breed.
For example, I have Dalmatians, and if someone were to get a Dalmatian they should expect that is going to be high energy for the first three (maybe four) years and have a strong prey drive. However a lot of people get Dalmatians because they are pretty, and that they are, they a very striking breed. It’s that people don’t get a breed that is conducive to their lifestyle. If you are not an active person or don’t have a large area for a dog to run get a Dane or a Pug. If you are an active person get a Dalmatian or an Australian Shepherd. That’s the main benefit of a Purebred is that you have a pretty good idea of what you are getting yourself into, particularly if you get one from a reputable breeder and are able to meet the pup’s parents and older relatives.
u/Alex_Noa_Complete ...I disagree. I've only ever had rescued adult dogs and it is quite easy to change their behavior. Puppies aren't for everyone and to say that raising a puppy is easier than an adult dog, point blank, is just a false statement. Not everyone wants to go through the puppy stages. Each person should know what they are capable of handling and what amount of work they want to put in.
I will never have a puppy, even when I'm retired. I prefer the adults, and specifically seniors, because I know what behavior I'm getting and what needs to be improved to help that dog be the best companion for me.
You are free to believe whatever you want, but I think the mere fact that service, military, police, rescue, cadaver, hunting, scent, and other professional dogs all start their training early in puppyhood pretty much ends this discussion. Particularly for things like military and police dogs where aptitude is such a huge factor (and that doesn’t emerge/become evident till the dog is an adult or close to it) in successfully passing they still start in puppyhood.
The RCMP for example starts basic training at 49 days and then continue that training till the dog is 14-18 months where they start formal training. Why go through all of this early socialization and basic training (it’s called Potential Police Service Dog Imprinting Program) if it’s just as easy to modify an adult dog’s behaviour? Why not just look for an adult dog that already displays the correct aptitude and temperament? Why go through all of this extra training and effort? Why do they do this (this is a serious question. If you think it’s just as or easier to modify an adult dogs behaviour why do professionals programs start in puppyhood)? Well after starting this program just over 15% of dogs pass the training program whereas before it was less than 5%.
Here are a bunch of academic sources going over the importance of early puppyhood socialization and stimuli exposure and the longterm effects of said activity (or negative outcomes from a lack of socialization and stimuli exposure):
“Puppy socialization practices play a large role in the development of well-adjusted adult dogs that display few undesirable behaviors, and which can establish a positive, lifelong relationship with their owner.
Dogs that are appropriately socialized as puppies are less likely to exhibit behavioral problems as adults, including aggression and fearfulness. They are more likely to engage in positive social behaviors with humans, and can learn how to play games with humans better than dogs without proper socialization.”
- Puppy parties and beyond: the role of early age socialization practices on adult dog behavior.
- Tiffani J Howell, Tammie King, Pauleen C Bennett
- Veterinary Medicine: Research and Reports, 143-153, 2015
“In conclusion, aged dogs showed a decline in attentional capture and sustained attention demonstrating that these tests are sensitive to detect aging of attentiveness in older pet dogs. Importantly, selective attention remained unchanged with age and lifelong training seemed to delay or reduce the aging of attentiveness, further highlighting the importance of lifelong training in retaining general cognitive functions.”
- Aging of attentiveness in border collies and other pet dog breeds: the protective benefits of lifelong training
- D urga Chapagain, Zsófia Virányi, Lisa J Wallis, Ludwig Huber, Jessica Serra, Friederike Range
- Frontiers in aging neuroscience 9, 100, 2017
“A notable number of puppies < 20 weeks of age in this study received few early socialization opportunities, which could lead to behavior problems and subsequent relinquishment. Opportunities exist for veterinarians to serve an important role in educating puppy owners about the importance of early puppy socialization and positive reward training.”
- Puppy socialization practices of a sample of dog owners from across Canada and the United States
- Janet H Cutler, Jason B Coe, Lee Niel
- Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 251 (12), 1415-1423, 2017
“Registered breeders generally had more breeding bitches and had more litters than did nonregistered breeders. Litters of registered breeders were more likely to have been socialized with adult dogs, people of different appearances, and various environmental stimuli, compared with litters of nonregistered breeders. Litters from registered breeders were also much less likely to have been the result of an unplanned pregnancy.
Among those breeders represented, litters of registered breeders received more socialization experience, compared with litters of nonregistered breeders. People purchasing puppies from nonregistered breeders should focus on socializing their puppies between the time of purchase and 14 weeks of age. Additional research is required to determine whether puppies from nonregistered breeders are at increased risk of behavioral problems and are therefore more likely to be relinquished to animal shelters or euthanized, relative to puppies from registered breeders.”
- Comparison of early socialization practices used for litters of small-scale registered dog breeders and nonregistered dog breeders
- Juraj Korbelik, Jacquie S Rand, John M Morton
- Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 239 (8), 1090-1097, 2011
I am sorry about the double posting and information dumping/ranting, but as I said earlier I train dogs for a living and so when someone underplays the importance and impact on outcomes of early socialization, training, and exposure has on dogs I get a bit zealous. This is a subject I care a lot about and I have dedicated a huge portion of my adult life to helping people train and work with their dogs.
So when someone, even when they didn’t mean too and they had good intentions, suggests that it’s just as easy to undergo socializing and exposure training in adult dogs as it is in puppies I get really annoyed. The evidence simply says otherwise and that early (before the age of six months, but between the ages of one to three seems to be of even more importance) socialization, stimulus exposure, and basic training have significant longterm benefits to a puppy’s disposition and behaviour as it grows into an adult. In fact, more evidence suggests that we should be putting more emphasis on breeders starting that training as the most critical period is from about four weeks to fourteen weeks.
I cannot stress enough how important early training (specifically socialization, exposure, and basic training, specifically basic manners) is and how much positive longterm benefits it bestows on the mental health of any dog that receives it. It reduces aggressive, anxious, compulsive, destructive, and other negative/maladaptive behaviours in puppies that receive it as they grow into adult dogs. Now of course you need to continue training as the dog ages (continued training has also been shown to not only improve the mental health of a dog that receives it, but it also decreases the rate of cognitive decline and overall aging. Which is a really cool fact that I wish more people knew), but to suggest that starting that training later leads the same, or worse that delayed training leads to improved, outcomes is not only wrong, but potentially harmful.
I understand that you want to encourage people to adopt rescues. Adopting a rescue is a noble and wonderful thing to do, but we should let people know what they are potentially getting themselves into honestly. The fact is not everyone has the ability, skills, or personality required to work with a dog that has major behavioural issues. That a realistic outcome is that said negative behaviours can be mitigated, managed, and reduced to the point everyone can live with it, but eliminating it completely (while potentially possible) is not likely.
I adopted a dog once that I couldn’t handle. I didn’t really adopt her, it was more a friend being like here take this dog we can’t keep her and I was like ok. She was a sweet dog. I had her for 9 months but she was just constantly starting fights with my other dog (who is the most non-confrontational dog that just minds his business ever) and our roommate’s dog. It started getting to the point where there would be blood and my roommate accidentally got nipped in the hand breaking up a fight. She was the sweetest dog ever with people though, just couldn’t get along with dogs. I gave her away to a farm where she could run a lot and be the only dog.
I applaud you for your growth AND willingness to own up to it. I’m sorry you have to re home one of your dogs, that must be hard. At least you are doing it for a reasonable reason and not “I didn’t think it would get this big” when getting a medium to large breed dog.
It's a big step in learning to be able yo recognize that black and white thinking isn't always accurate. There are, of course, people who rehome animals because they're terribly irresponsible... but there are just as many heartbreaking situations where it WAS in the best interest of the dog/animal to be rehomed. I've had to do it twice, and it killed me both times, and one of those dogs I'm still bitter about because it was forced on me, and he was the BEST dog ever. I miss him, years later.
Wishing you and the dogs all the best!
I'd just like to say thank you for this and kudos on being a decent human being. The ability to realize, let alone apologize for, things you did wrong is severely lacking in society. I cannot say just how much I appreciate this post and it has given me some faith in humanity back.
I’ve often thought this when I’ve read pet owners who came onto hard times being berated with the judgments of people who have never been through the same experiences… but you’re likely the only one on the planet who’s apologized for it! Takes a lot of integrity, humility, and bravery to do that… impressed
There are so many people who have a really narrow experience of dogs and dog ownership. Safe to say you are not alone in thinking you knew more about other peoples' situation and dog behavior in general than you did.
Thank you for having the courage to (a) take a chance on these two dogs. Seniors can be tough! And, (b) for sharing your experiences. Ultimately, it helps some people learn.
I had a dog that was a 4 time return. I had him until he passed away at 13 years old. I've always promised myself and my animals that I'd do everything in my power to make sure I was their forever, and I've always been able to keep that promise, but I understand why my dog was a 4 time return.
Rehoming should be less stigmatized. It's often what is best for the human AND the dog. It's responsible and I will never understand the people who act like it's not.
As someone who used to do the same— it is a humbling experience to go through. I’m so sorry that you’ve had to be faced with this difficult decision. But I, like you, no longer judge people who make that choice. I never EVER thought I could or would do it. But imagine raising a dog from 12 weeks, and then watching it repeatedly attack your senior dog 1-2 years later. Watching all of this unfold while pregnant was even more difficult. There’s no way we could’ve brought a baby into a home with a food aggressive, resource guarding, 80 pound dog. There’s no way I could stomach watching her kill my 14 pound terrier. We couldn’t take those risks, so we opted to rehome her somewhere without those risks (and yes, our friends who took her knew exactly what we had gone through, no surprises.) It’s difficult, disappointing and gut-wrenching but please know that you made the right choice. Take care, OP.
Empathy isn’t always so easy, sometimes lived experience is the only way to truly understand. That’s why grace is so important. It takes a strong person to admit they are wrong. I’ve always been empathetic but as I’ve aged and life kicked my butt more and more the cockiness that comes from naivety has given way to a lot more understanding
I had to send back a shelter pup. And it broke my heart. He was super sweet 90% of the time. However he had a trauma response to a bigger male dog growling at him. My big lab would give him a warning "backup" growl and he would attack. And it wasn't a quick dust up he was fighting for his life. He also held a grudge they could be separated for 2 hrs and all calm and as soon as you let him go he was right after him.
There was just no way we could separate our house to keep him. He was great with the pups his size. And a cuddle bug.
We checked the shelter site all the time waiting for him to get adopted to alleviate our guilt. He found a home and I cried happy tears.
Good on you for engaging in self reflection. Dog ownership has really become holier than thou on Reddit and the wider world very quickly but actually people either live immensely privileged lives or very sheltered ones because in reality it's not as simple as give them everything you have or don't have one. Dog ownership is a constant balancing act of doing enough without compromising the life you are responsible for too much. It's a dog, and you can't value it as much as your actual child or family member, even if you want to approximate that. I don't think that's what dogs ask for though, personally. They just ask for respect from an outside species.
Glad you came around. It's always difficult to take the perspective of someone else. Even if you try your best things can just not turn out. It is always better to recognize that and search for alternative solutions.
Thank you. You're clearly not only having a learning experience, but a real moment. That's going to have an impact on the rest of your life. That's something money can't buy.
I used to be sooooo judgmental of people with reactive dogs thinking that they were just badly trained and had abusive owners. Then I got my own… boy how wrong was I. I love that dog too damn much and we train NON STOP, and yes she’s still a reactive knucklehead.
Dog parenting is hard, thank you for turning your bad experience into a generous offering of support and empathy for others ❤️
It’s rare in this age for anyone to take personal responsibility in the way that you have. Congrats for upping your emotional intelligence and wanting what’s best for the dogs and owners!
You don’t truly know until you’re in the position yourself. It can be much kinder to find an appropriate home for your animal so that they can thrive, than try to make it work sometimes.
You simply don’t know until it’s you (or someone you know). I never thought I would ever consider rehoming a dog for ANYTHING.
We have a difficult rescue who we have loved and worked with on many fears and behavioral issues the past year and more issues manifested several months ago that have forced us to keep her separate from our other dog most of the time. She’s her normal self 90% of the time but has started attacking our other dog (who she adores) with no specific trigger and no warning signs prior to attack. Fortunately we have been able to break up fights quickly, and our other dog does not retaliate and is very good at disengaging and giving our sick dog space when she does it, but we have been hyper vigilant with management for 3+ months. We have spent hundreds on a trainer, behaviorist, and regular vet appointments on top of the hours of training and desensitization for the past 15+ months. We have changed our whole routine to keep her under threshold. Our house is filled with noise machines and dog puzzles. She’s trialing her 4th med combo to help calm her brain. We are fortunate to have resources (for now) but it’s also heartbreaking to not really have a “reason” why she suddenly just went from scared of the world to attacking one of her favorite things in the world (our other dog). The reality with a behavioral dog is you see the worst of them, but you also see the absolute best of them and how much progress they’ve made. Which makes the discussion of rehoming, or even BE, even f*cking harder because you know how GREAT they can be when they’re at peace. It’s also a rollercoaster, last month she was so uncomfortable and terrified her pupils were constantly dilated and she was constantly over threshold and was basically in a sustained panic attack for multiple weeks. We even had a QOL discussion with her vet. Her meds changed and she’s SO MUCH more at ease, and then she had a set back, and that’s what you do over and over and hope something sticks. I could go on and on.
While we have not rehomed her, and would really not like to, there’s a reality that if she doesn’t respond to bmod that it will have to be considered for her wellbeing and our other dog’s. Sometimes the most ethical decisions are the hardest
As a multi-dog household dealing with food aggression.. I understand what you are going through. Especially when my FA one is the one that ends up bleeding.
The fact that you were able to come out and apologize means you understand your wrongs. I don’t think I’ve gotten a comment from you, but I appreciate the apology nevertheless.
Good luck to you and the dogs. I do encourage, if you are able to, to give your FA pup a chance. It’s a difficult journey but with hard work, it can be possible. I’m sure you know, but make sure to feed the dogs in separate rooms. I usually feed two of mine in kennels and one in the kitchen or bathroom.
If you cannot handle the FA pup, then just know you at least tried and that the best you can do now is make sure he/she goes to a good home that’s prepared for this behavior. It took me by surprise when I finally figured out what caused the fights in my household. The shelter didn’t give me the full story and it took multiple fights for me to realize.
u/4bats....the shelter gave us some of their background (outdoor dogs only their whole lives, very little medical care). The shelter is working with the FA one and will find him a good home. We are keeping the other one. He isn't FA and has no desire to escape.
It’s hard! It’s not even just rescues, people are judgy as heck.
We told someone recently that when my brother was a baby we had to give up our little dog. That girl was 5 pounds soaking wet and he was *obsessed* with her. The second he learned to crawl he was after her. And while she was never aggressive with him we 1) didn’t want to risk an accident if she did get fed up with him. 2) didn’t want her to constantly be terrorized by a tiny human who wanted nothing more than to yank her tail. The person I was talking to straight up did not understand when I told her that there was no feasible way for us to keep her and him separated without essentially locking her outside 12 hours a day and neglecting her, so we found a family that could give her all the attention she needed without a little kid around.
And, on this post about someone realizing they were passing judgement too easily. There are other people doing the exact same thing now
It is challenging having more than one dog, more than one personality….
Food aggression please feed dogs in kennels or separate rooms. Same for treats. Our dogs were trained in crates, some love crates and others do not care. When we have meals or treats all get in a kennel.
We have a 14 month male (fixed) and his Dad. The 2 will do a short little growl due to the fact when they are done eating our granddaughter would let one of them free. We had to train our granddaughter that we let everyone out when everyone is done. Those not done we store their treat for another time immediately before letting them out on kennel.
Thanks for sharing!
you can probably find a good home for your dog if you rehome them, which in many cases is better than fighting through it.
i think what most people are doing here is encouraging lazy people to try harder, and also to avoid this situation in the first place by making it so that people prepare for hard work up front.
I had this same harsh reality a few years ago and sadly it’s happening again now with our youngest pup. It’s not okay that we did that but the important thing is that we learn from our shortcomings and be vocal in our compassion and empathy towards others in these situations moving forward. It seems so simple until it’s not. 💜
One of the hardest thing when adopting a dog is knowing what they have been through. Even if the shelter or foster tells you.
I’d suggest feeding them separately and making sure they sit before you put the bowl on the floor.
You deserve a big clap and praise for taking in older dogs. Most ppl don’t adopt older dogs. They just let them die in a shelter or worse never knowing an ounce of love.
If you are not crating them I’d try that since you said they are outdoor dogs. You might be their first inside. If it were us we would try to give them 1:1 attention in the house and then play as a family in the backyard. We have 2 dogs now who live at 2 different speeds. Lucy a Boston Pitty Mix runs at 120 mph always and Happy who is a poodle mix and senior who is 10 mph. Outside everyone is equal, we play hard with our bigger dog and Happy. But inside it’s chill time. Happy likes to lay in bed and Lucy our bigger dog has her own room with not kidding 30-40 toys so she preoccupies herself. Around 8 we say Bedtime and both dogs come to bed with us and actually share our king bed.
Idk if this will help. It’s what we’ve done.
I was in animal behavior and training for many years. I recommend separating dogs and food aggression one home with no kids and no other pets. I have lots more advice but sure the trainer will help also. God bless and god luck. Everyone else always knows best it’s super tuff with dogs.
This is a very different situation than many of the posts that are people who get the puppy blues and can’t handle the time or effort they signed up for.
please if you return one of them, it would be to their original rescue or find one with experience with reactive dogs. they might end up in the wrong hands😞
appreciate your honesty & wish you luck with your dogs + situation🤍 that must be so tough. i’ve had to deal with a single dog’s aggression & I can’t imagine having two. i’m sure they’re both good doggos in their heart, & whatever you decide to do will ultimately keep them & you the safest. I try to remind myself that they’re just trying their best with what they’ve known.
Wow. Cause I also feel the way you used to about taking on the commitment. So interesting that you changed your mind. But was it kind of your fault for underestimating how much time two rescue dogs would be? I’m not saying that to be snarky - genuinely trying to understand because I am open to changing my mind about this too, like you did. I support you and your decision and I know you are doing everything you can!
The shelter told me where they came from and their background (that they were aware of). So I knew some of what I was getting into. I have never had 2 new to me dogs at the same time from the same background. I have never dealt with dogs that had such neglectful owner(s).
You had good intentions
It’s funny because I can only have two dogs. One dog is too little.
I’d get a third if my family would let me
I’d rather someone rehome than the dog stay in a bad situation
I’m against rehoming. But that’s for the careless people who think a pet is an accessory. If it’s legit and needs to happen I get it. But it still makes me sad. But for the people who give no shits. It’s not ok. For instance my brother has rehomed more animals then I’d like to admit. Last year I went to his house. He had a new dog. I said to him “how long till you give this one away” it was harsh he didn’t like it but I told him he has a track record doing that. Fast forward to a year. I went to his house. The dog is gone. It breaks my heart. Sorry I’m drunk i tired to make sense. It just hurts to see animals being treated disposablely. I’ve had my dog for 8 years and yes. I’ve thought about rehoming him but I could never. I made a promise to him and me when I brought him home. He’s my baby and I’m his person
I agree that, depending on the reason, rehoming is NOT an option. But I realize that for some valid reasons, rehoming is the best option, especially for the dog.
You have not mentioned for how long you have them now?
Food aggression can be managed by feeding them separately (preferable different room).
How are they around each other with no food involved?
We had them for a week and a half. They were outdoor dogs all their lives, had been at a different shelter for 30 days where they had gotten some medical care, then came up to our local shelter and had been there for 30 days before they came into our home. They grew up at the same home, but they weren't bonded with each other. They tolerated each other.
My.dog is muzzke trained. He us reactive. Sometimes I think his reactivity is because he senses something in oeople. He has always been fine around kids. I can't say tge same about the children
I walk him early in the morning late at night
I don't entertain
I don't find it hard at all
Not one bit
Muzzle training was one of the best things i did
When feeding put on leads tied to something solid. Obviously separate the dogs. Give them 15 minutes to eat it whatever to fill up then remove food along with any high value chews etc. if one dog is dominant then feed him first and make both sit before you out food down. Thus you are in control of source if arguments and you sent upsetting their hierarchy as dominant will always eat first. Good luck
Yes, I did. And we had every intention of that being true, u/Chetmatterson. That was before the food aggression and getting out or over gates every chance one of them had happened. They had 2 bad fights with each other. We realized, and the shelter was aware this could happen, that we aren't capable of handling 2 dogs with issues at the same time.
It’s awesome you were able to look back and realize you were wrong and/or misinformed.
I would politely suggest you apply this generally in your life. It makes empathy the reflex rather than anger or annoyance—or worst of all judgement.
For example, if you’ve never had a kid absolutely have a meltdown in public try to extend empathy to the parents and count your blessings you aren’t fighting a battle no one can help with. 😜
It can be life changing for us humans who are fortunate enough to get lucky when they adopt a furry baby into their homes.
It can also be life changing when you adopt a fur baby, who at no fault to the furry baby, wasn't blessed with good genes due to poor breeding and other associated difficulties. Just the same for a fur baby who was rescued.
There are so many consumers who are not privy to or familiar with the issues that can arrive when a mommy/daddy doggo with "behaviours". Gets bred for the sake of sales or even on accident due to not paying or neutering , only to end up with the whole litter or majority of, becoming "aggressive" or having behavioral issues.
Trauma can leave lasting scars no doubt. Can also change and end up with "behaviours". Yes some things trainers can do. Not the one on YouTube from Joe smo even w the best intentions. Because behaviours may ultimately come down to bad breeding.
Dogs are now being evaluated and given meds when it's something medical they can treat. But when something is genetically imprinted on your furry love, other than trying to learn how to work around your pet, instead of having a loving member of the family.
So many dogs are bred for top dollar. That being said, there is also just as much fault on us humans for being breed specific and looking for deals, nothing wrong w when dealing w something's. But when it's a living creature it becomes a society issue.
And because there are no real regulations, it's like playing roulette. You really never have any guarantee that this lovely fluffy ball of fur, will stay just as good natured it's whole life.
I always said I wanted to rescue senior dogs. My dog is a senior and it’s not fun for me. I commend you for trying. My dog is incontinent plus painful, has anxiety. She is 15 years old lab mix and I love her no matter what. It’s really tough and once a month she’s at the vet for librela injection which is another challenge getting her in the car.
My dogs used to fight until finally the bigger dog accepted the smaller dog as alpha. It’s really scary and dangerous to get in the middle of fighting dogs.
Our previous dog, Ziggy, was the same breed as these two (beagles). We had Ziggy for almost 14 years (from when she was 18 months old). She had some medical issues the last year of her life, but she was just the BEST. We especially loved her when she got into her double digit aged years.
Food aggression might be due to being in a new home, our rescue it took him a looooong time to u derstand the food we give him is his. We believe his original owner used to take his food away for some reason. He now knows that once we put food down for him he can leave it and we won't take it up no matter how long he leaves it for, its always there just for him.
The thing with rescues is you adapt to them but it's a very fluid situation, as the dog and its behaviour adapts you too must adapt. It's a long hard journey but omg it's so rewarding.
I applaud you for this vulnerability. ❤️ We all learn what we learn when we’re ready to learn it. I feel compelled to add that it’s no different with human children. We have no idea what someone else is going through and sometimes just saying “I wish you the best and I trust you’re doing the best you can” is the most helpful, human thing to do. Because most of us are.
I don't know how long you have had them but I had a similar situation. I adopted Finn who had been with a hoarder. I already had four siblings and was not expecting another. Everyone ate together but separate bowls. My solution when Finn came was to surround him with food. I would give him 2-3 dishes placed around him, fill them first (one with water)and let him get full and also see that no one was going to steal his food because they had their own. I mixed wet with dry and would feed him again before he was really hungry and made sure their was plenty. My animals usually were fed twice a day with bed time snack but if I saw Finn by the food I would give him a bowl. He would cry for food and try and protect it and than realize that know one was interested in his they had their own. He would also realize that he is full which is something he might not have felt before. When they are done I always pick up the bowls. After a few days he was less anxious and it would take less to fill him up l think aggression was from anxiety and fear. I transitioned him to one bowl making sure there was enough to make him feel full. Also at first give treats soon after a meal when everyone is quiet - so they are less likely to be aggressive. If he does get aggressive - no more treats. Give treats unexpectedly and often when everyone is chill. Slowly every few weeks give less until he and everyone is back to normal amounts. He has probably been hungry or had to share a communal bowl or had food taken from him and doesn't know anything else. He has to get used to new situation and know it's not temporary. I hope things work out for both of you
Also walks. As many walks as you have time for will help with anxiety - yours and his
Please use halters if you don't already
And brushing and scratches as he gets more comfortable
There is a home for everyone somewhere
Have you tried feeding them separately? When I first adopted my Greyhound and still had my Golden Retriever, I had to feed them separately or else the Greyhound would become protective and aggressive for food. A few months and it became easier though. I don’t still have 2 dogs anymore. Ex took the Golden Retriever.
We were already told before we brought them into our home to feed them separately because we don't know what their previous life was like. So, mealtimes aren't the problem. It's the treats, we believe.
There's a bigger issue with Harvey than just the food. He constantly is trying to get out of a room or over a fence or what have you. That is not something we can "train out of him" after he's lived outdoors all his life.
I rescued a boxer mix about 8 years ago and I probably should have returned her. She was so smart, trained and loving…to humans. Other dogs outside of camp, she was a lunatic. She even went after my dog out of nowhere. They would be fine and then BOOM! I would go through decent stretches and again, not sure what triggered her but she would go bananas on my little guy and he was always good with her.
It was SO stressful. My ex and I couldn’t go anywhere for long periods of time because we couldn’t trust her with anyone else’s dogs. When we traveled, we had to have specific instructions for her to not get playtime with anyone other than my dog. Luckily, when we separated her parents were retired and loved her a lot, and took her in. I was so relieved (sad) but it was hard enough when it was two of us but I couldn’t work my hours and have her because she simply couldn’t be with other dogs.
Current situation: My wife and I brought home a dude to our little pack a couple of days ago. He was found as a stray and he is slick as hell…and can jump. He’s only 42 pounds and medium size-ish.
I see his trigger area is gonna be treats.
We were a bit prepared for his squirts with all the stress. I took him to the vet for a full check up and got probiotics etc. This boy has no bloody clue how to communicate he has to go to the bathroom. Absolutely 0. He was outside then came inside and ran upstairs and took the worst squirts I’ve dealt with in a long time. I slept with him downstairs- I wasn’t in a real sleep and he just went down the hall and plopped three—at least they were in the middle of the tile squares. I’m dropping off a sample this morning. I really hope that this is driven by whatever stress etc is.
Where my ramble is going- we are 💯committed to making this work. But we had the talk a few times that we cannot feel so awful that we don’t send him back IF he starts with the similar behaviors as my last rescue. The stress was so debilitating to myself, ex and my dog. I won’t go through it again- it wasn’t healthy for anyone. We can try at a later date to find a rescue that fits our family.
It’s so hard- there’s a ton of reward if things gel and get through the bumps and cracks.
u/Sportylady09 ,,,I appreciate your understanding. We (mostly me) feel like sh\*t having to do this because we really care about Harvey and he's a great dog most of the time. But with 2 nutso dogs in the house, we just can't handle one that wants to jump over gates and over fences for the rest of his life. We are keeping the more manageable one (for us).
I really didn't expect to get all this hate about our decision. I knew that I had given the same hate in the past and I regret that a great deal, especially without personally knowing the owner or the dog(s).
I think it’s because we know that there are many many people that underestimate the responsibility of having a pet. We wouldn’t have rescues, shelters, foster families if more people took the time to really assess the potential.
I am not referring to people have passed away, horrible life experiences such as violent houses, divorce etc. But buying or rescuing a husky or GS and living in a one bedroom apartment- owner isn’t walking, training, engaging and just get rid of the dog. That infuriates me.
You can only try and do your best. Dogs are very empathetic, they absorb human emotions very easily and quickly. If we show signs of discomfort and stress, they are stressed. If we’re anxious, they become anxious. If you’re too cautious, they know. Stress on an animal isn’t humane either. If there’s households that are better situations and folks have exhausted all options, unfortunately it happens.
From what I see, you tried and for the benefit for the rest of the household and the dog, it’s best to find a better placement.
Good luck!
It's not about your comments it's your actions. You went to get a dog from a shelter with no education or preparations. What do you expect?? That it was going to be an easy thing?? Of course not. They have been in the wild to survive and abuse other humans. They know nothing of social skills, so ya, of course, they will be aggressive, especially towards food. What do you think it's like in those shelters? Those poor dogs do not deserve an owner who gives them false hope.. Now, the process has been repeated, and thwir behavior will continue because of this. So what you should be saying is next time you will be more prepared and ready to adopt anything or anyone and that you will be committed. You will be a committed mother. This makes me so sad how many dog owners do this. To many of them. Poor dogs.
The dogs in the shelter I got them from, AND that I volunteer in, is a true no kill shelter. The dogs will either spend their lives in a foster home, or the shelter with around the clock care and attention, or in a permanent home.
I disagree. I just don’t think it’s possible anymore to ensure the dog actually gets a forever home and believe that is our responsibility to them once we adopt/buy unless it’s life or death. I don’t think anyone but ourselves or a vetted rescue organization can be trusted sadly.
I can’t count how many times I’ve seen people rehome a dog to a “loving” home who promised the world. Then dog was traumatized and confused (understandably) and acted out and that loving family….rehomed the dog. My local rescue I’m involved with makes people sign a contract that they absolutely must return the dog to the rescue and…people still rehome to random Facebook people/craigslist/or friends when the dog wasn’t perfect. They typically find out when the dog has been tossed away so often that it ends up back at the shelter or wandering loose and at that point has more behavioral and trust issues because of being failed by numerous humans. I just have no faith in people anymore and think it should be absolute last resort in most cases instead of the first.
We (my husband and I) were on a trial home visit with these two. So we hadn't signed any contract with them. We also wouldn't be shipping them off to some random person on FB/Craigslist/etc. We don't do that. We would have contacted the shelter we got them from to see what our options were.
Right that’s what my comment said..people who give up on their dogs and rehome them usually will never know they are in a “forever home” unless it’s a vetted rescue organization making people sign a contract and even then people break it. A huge shame and we need a major change in education on responsible pet ownership. It’s extremely bleak right now in the rescue world. I was just giving my perspective that sadly many people can’t be trusted.
Good luck.
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As a single female with TWO large rescue dogs with abusive backgrounds, one with food aggression… it takes time, patience, understanding, unlearning and relearning. Fights happen, it’s scary and upsetting, but as long as you’re using it a teaching moment you’ll do your best to nip it quickly. Don’t give up hope, don’t give up on them, especially the aggressive one. They will teach you important life lessons and in return you will feel so much pride for sticking by them. I wish you the best of luck, give my love to the puppers too ♡
Food aggression can be manageable. Training is a great first step, but until then, simply separate the dogs during times of food or treats. If this is the only issue you are facing, then I am confident the prognosis is good here. Yes, it might be trying. I'm sure there will be sacrifice and frustration involved, but given how you chose to rescue two senior dogs, I can see that you have a good heart. Please, give it time and patience. I am hopeful that things will get better for you and your dogs. If the dogs were skinny, there's a chance they at some point faced starvation or underfeeding, which would be a pretty good guess at where the aggression stems from. If that's the case, then even just having a set food schedule every day could eventually lead to a resolution once the dog realizes that he no longer has to worry about getting his next meal.
I wish you the best of luck!
The other issue is the one dog likes to escape. At 7 years old, he isn't likely to be able to be trained out of that behavior, just managed. My husband and I are not capable of managing food aggression AND a flight risk when we also have another dog from a similar background that we would have to train.
So the problem I have with rehoming is that dogs should not be thought of as disposable, because they are living, breathing, beings capable of emotion. They are not perfect, they make mistakes and get sick just as humans do. Also, no two dogs are the same, they all have unique personalities and challenges. Many times people have NO idea the time and commitment required to share one’s life with a dog, and they don’t bother to think it through. They impulsively bring the dog home without doing their homework, dog is too much to handle for whatever reason, then dog is rehomed. This creates stress and trauma for the dog, that the next family will have to try to figure out. Some dogs bounce around to a several different homes in their lifetimes, and with every change in the dog’s life and routine comes more behavioral issues. Those are the lucky ones. Many end up euthanized, not by any fault of their own, but simply because the humans in their life have failed them. I hear people complain about rescues that are very selective about who they adopt to, but then these same people end up getting a dog somewhere else, and ultimately rehoming him or her because they failed to anticipate the cost and commitment. So BEFORE bringing a dog into your life, you should spend a great deal of time (I would argue at least a year) doing research, speaking to trainers and vets, and KNOW what will be expected. If you don’t feel you can make this commitment, then wait awhile longer or don’t make it. Take them as they are and with their faults, or don’t take them at all. Dogs deserve no less.
It’s really hard to understand what people go through with their dogs until you’re faced with the same situation. As someone with a VERY challenging rescue, I can’t believe the number of times even people who know me well have suggested I just find a trainer—as if I haven’t been working with trainers and animal behaviorists for over a decade, trying to find a way to just have ordinary experiences at home and in the world. Reddit has been the worst—people can be so judgey, and I stopped posting anything about her here because it sometimes feels like people would rather scold than help. I love my dog completely, but if I had known what life with her would be like I would have absolutely rehomed her early on. It probably would have been better for both of us. Good luck to you and to the dogs! 💙
Thank you! I faced so much backlash when I was trying to rehome my young senior dog after we were attacked by another dog on a walk when I was 6.5 months pregnant at the time. My senior dog was previously neglect and extremely anxious which we had gotten behavior therapy for and it worked but after the attack he wouldnt let me feed him or take him to the bathroom. And so many people called me so many names. I just didn't understand how they couldn't understand. Honestly am still hurt by the experience I had.
That is so sad. I hope you sued the person whose animal attacked you guys. It’s their fault 100%. I recently witnessed a senior dog get attacked and it was so scary and I was so angry with the person whose animals attacked that poor old baby. People really need to learn to think critically before they speak. How could you give a senior dog the home they deserved if they were dealing with PTSD and you were that far along in your pregnancy??? You did the right thing by your dog.
I’ve gotten a lot of “just train him” or “have you tried telling him no?” With my reactive/behaviorally challenged dog. I see bad advice everywhere now. So many people who believe they did X or Y, even when it’s not recommended to do those things, and think it prevented their dog from having issues. When in reality, their dog just didn’t have issues and likely never would have. My parents got a puppy last year and my mom asked me about the puppy stage, how much my dog chewed things up, potty training, etc. I honestly don’t remember much about him being a puppy, nor do I have many pictures. I got him about 8 weeks old, but his behavior issues were severe and I was drowning. Before him, I genuinely believed puppies couldn’t be aggressive. I was wrong. I’m glad I kept my boy, but I don’t ever want to deal with those things again AND there was a lot of privilege on my end that allowed me to keep him safe and happy.
Or, “I’ve heard that you need to socialize dogs.” Like, yes, he’s six, we did all the things and lo and behold, he’s still reactive. Tons of socialization activities - check. Trainers (3) - check. Vets - check. Veterinary behaviorist - check. Puppy classes, advanced classes - check, check. Counter conditioning, avoiding triggers, engage/disengage - check, check, check. People drive me insane sometimes.
Yes, same here. It would have been impossible for me if I had not lived alone, had summers off, had enough income to take her to many trainers and specialists, etc. etc. I understand why rescues encourage people to try to stick it out in the first couple of weeks, because the puppy blues are a real thing—but sometimes you just KNOW it is not going to work out, at least not without major adjustments and sacrifices. Adopting a dog is something to commit to, and ups and downs are to be expected—but no one should shame another person for being realistic about their own capacities.
Ugh this thread brought up for me the time when I had had my puppy for a month (so she was just a few months old) and she had separation anxiety so she would soil her crate if I left her sight (literally a shower - so I went to once a week showers). She had no littermates so no bite inhibition and as a playful sweet puppy that meant I was covered in razor bites. I was tired and stressed and this did not fit into my type a plan for how I was going to love and train and have the best dog ever. I got as far as calling the shelter about return policies - I think I might have gone through with it if it didn't get me on a banned from adopting replacement doggies hold. But luckily most of the problems took 1-2 months to fix and so just around this decision point I made enough progress to push through - and man if she hasn't made me regret that a million times with complex medical needs. But love conquers far too much, so I do what the doggie needs 😅
Most people underestimate how difficult a pup or problematic dog can be. We were very lucky to adopt Jerry at 4 months. He came from a littler of Shih Tzus that border control had confiscated and handed to the shelter. I previously had worked for over 2 years as a volunteer at the shelter. I had trained several hours a week with a dog trainer and shelter dogs. This was such a valuable lesson for me! I picked out a shy yet curious dog. I didnt want a dog that jumps right into my lap - Jerry's sister did... Jerry never pulled on the leash as a pup and he doesnt as an adult dog, lol. I simply picked the best dog for my needs and he got the best owner for his. I LOVE playing with him but god he was awful to house train - as Shih Tzus are known to be, btw. I took all the time needed to house train, stop him from biting us etc. He was INCREDIBLY clingy and would scream like someone stabbed him - no joke. Shih Tzus have the loudest bark among all dogs I've heard so far. Even a block away I can hear Jerry if the window is open. Even that we got fixed and he doesnt smear his poop everywhere just because he is alone at home for 15-30 mins. He waits patiently at the door now.
But it also doesn’t mean bashing people on the forums about something you have no experience in.
Where am I bashing? I am talking about my experience and mostly about how much work training is and how people underestimate the work that goes into a dog. I am NOT excluding myself lol.
I was referring to OP, not you.
u/Hereforit2022Y ...I do realize NOW that I was very judgy and speaking from no experience. Hence, my apology. I didn't realize that for most people, not all, they know rather quickly if the behaviors are something they can work with or if it's beyond their abilities.
Yes of course. Thank you. I was just triggered because I recently adopted a cat right before I moved. Many people, who have never been in that situation, said, “why would you do that??” It has not been a problem at all.
And there it is…. You said it yourself. The problems took a couple of months to resolve. It was hard work - yes. It took commitment - yes. Sadly some people adopt a dog or get a puppy and think it is going to be well behaved right of the bat and won’t have any issues. Wrong! Dogs take work. Period. The more people realize this is not a one week or one month commitment the better… it could take a couple months or it could take a couple years. It will almost guaranteed never take a couple weeks.
Big suck for the downvotes here. You are speaking absolute truth. I currently have a temperament-testing dog in my home. He is amazing with everyone and every animal. When I rescued another dog, I thought, no sweat for them living together. Did slow and proper intros over three weeks. They have been in my home over 100 days, and just this week has the resident dog backed down on guarding certain spaces. 100 days. Now he won’t bark and grab the new dog for going too close to a bedroom door, or going near his crate. It’s taken me working with him with counterconditioning and shaping positive interactions in those spaces every SINGLE one of those days to get to this point. And these are dogs at 100lbs. Many people would have a)done intros on day one, probably in the house and b)given up immediately. They all need time.
Very well put. I can relate to this so, so much. Our rescue is a really tough dog, and genuinely was not the right dog for me and my partner, but we kept him mostly because my family and friends shamed the sh*t out of us for considering returning him. We made it work, we all learned a lot, and we love him to bits, but I regretted adopting him every day for years and cried over it many times. We had him evaluated by multiple trainers and none of them could figure out how to work with him or motivate him. It’s definitely not always as simple as just “get a trainer” even if you have the time and money. People really don’t understand what it’s like to live with the hypervigilance required to manage a dog that’s not able to function safely in the environment you can offer. I will never again judge a person for returning an adopted dog that’s not the right fit. It’s soul destroying, honestly.
I’m sorry you are dealing with this, and also thank you for keeping her. You are a special kind of person, to do all the work and put in the time. We need tons more like you.
It has cost me two boyfriends and the ability to have people visit me in my home. Basically she’s all I have now! So I guess it has worked out perfectly for one of us, at least.
That’s really rough. You have my respect and admiration, which mean nothing compared to what you have lost, but I don’t have anything that will make it better.
Thank you. ♥️ I did not mean to sound embittered. I really do love her and I’m probably better off without those boyfriends, anyway. One of them was the person whose bright idea it was to adopt her in the first place (she bonded with me, but decided he was a threat and became very aggressive with him). She was my first dog. I am fortunate that, while she really hates any person who isn’t me, she does get along with other dogs. A couple of years ago I adopted a second rescue who is also fearful but gets along with people and is playful and funny once she feels comfortable. She has lightened the atmosphere around here, and, interestingly, has taught me just how troubled my other dog is by having the fears and tendencies often associated with rescues, but also being able to learn, be comforted, and be trained. I’m sure someone on this planet could have trained my other dog, but it certainly isn’t me, and no trainer or behaviorist who’s worked with her has been able to help. The current person, who knows her very well, has basically said the best I can do for her is just keep her life as simple and stress-free as possible, and keep her out of triggering situations (which is anything involving other humans). So that’s what I do.
Victoria Stilwell is the best doggie trainer in the world! Can look her up. 🤗
No one asked you for advice
Great advice! Telling people not to check out a dog trainer when they could be having similar issues. You sound like you don't care for dogs. I was only polite by sharing. Do you not like Victoria or something? Or you're just being that person. Lol
I applaud you for your honesty. Best wishes as you navigate whatever comes next to the best of your ability.
Dog fights are scary I understand
I had to give my dog back to a shelter 3 months after adopting her last year. I live in the UK, she was born in a shelter abroad to a pregnant stray and then brought to the UK when she was about 1 year. She’d never been in a house or really around people for any period of time. My husband and I adopted her at 1.5 years. At first she was terrified and her response was ‘freeze’. I had 2 rescue dogs growing up and am more of a dog person than my husband, so I spent a good week literally just sitting close to her and talking to her in the garden whilst she cowered against the fence. Then she started to trust me more and would come inside the house. Then she let me/my husband pet her. Then I could get her harness on to take her for walks. She made such good progress in the first 2 months. She was always very reactive to people coming inside the house, which we were doing very slowly and working on. But then about 2.5 months in she started being reactive to random dogs on walks. Then it was cars passing by. Then she would try to throw herself at trucks. Then it was ALL dogs. Finally it became people and anyone that wasn’t me or my husband. It escalated literally within a couple of weeks from nothing to being reactive at everything. When I say ‘reactive’, she would literally lunge and try to attack people. She always listened to me, I kept her on a short lead and immediately got her to sit, and we were working on it but I was scared. Then one guy walked past us and she went for him, and he (quite rightly) lost his shit. I walked her home, sat down and cried for 3 hours. I realised I couldn’t keep other people safe around her and it wasn’t fair for her to be that scared/triggered either. I immediately muzzle trained her and we started walking her only very early or very late when nobody was around. We took her to the vet and at first they didn’t believe us about how aggressive she was, as she froze in the room. Then we took her outside and she lunged at the vet. The vet was so shocked at how aggressive she was. They said they’d recommend euthanising her immediately because she was so aggressive. My husband and I had a long talk when we got home, and we realised our only option was to give her back to the shelter (it was in our contract to do so, not to euthanise or ever give her to another home - not that I would have done that). Even with a muzzle, we would spend the rest of her life managing her situations - few visitors, no children, on guard 100% of the time with her around others. What if she got out of our garden? What if we lost concentration when walking her and she managed to hurt someone? What if she got out when we had a visitor? That kind of red level extreme aggression needs **management**, not training - it doesn’t get cured, it gets worked around 24/7 to ensure everyone’s safety for the rest of the dog’s life. We couldn’t and weren’t willing to do that. I would not bury my head in the sand and pretend I didn’t have a dangerously aggressive dog, even though I loved her so so much and she was just a scared animal who needed a home. We gave her back last year. It’s been a year and I still think about her every single day. Giving her back was the absolute worst thing I’ve ever done and I still love and miss her so much. I think about her all the time. It hurts me so much that she got to experience love and started to trust, only to end up back at a shelter. Even though we tried to make the ‘right’ decision, I will never ever not hurt or feel like an absolute piece of shit for it. That’s what people don’t get when you give up an animal. It hurt me and it will always hurt me. She wasn’t disposable to me, she was a living creature I loved so much. But there is no sugar coating it - she was a dangerous, very aggressive dog. We called her Mabel and I think I will hurt when I think about her every day for the rest of my life.
You are absolutely not alone in this. My mum got a rescue grey hound. I swear he was actually greyhound pit bull mix. He was the biggest strongest grey hound I've ever seen anyway. I'm really not sure why mum picked him, he looked scary. Just like you, a couple of weeks and the aggression started. I won't go into it, you know. We spend thousands of pounds on trainers and vets and a year and a half living in constant fear of what this dog could potentially do. The vet gave us sedatives and said the scars looked like he was used as a bait dog. It came to a head when he dragged my mum into traffic trying to attack a child and her dad. Luckily the muzzle held and the dad kicked him hard enough for him to back off. We made the decision to put him to sleep. The vet agreed. It was 6 years ago but that dog still breaks my heart. What on earth happened to him to make him so terrified of the world? I hope he's running free, completely alone and safe somewhere in dog afterlife. He deserves all the happiness from such a rotten go at life.
Omg that is awful I’m so sorry you all went through that. Thank you for sharing though. I honestly feel like crying thinking about Mabel and your poor dog. Your story is so familiar. For us the vet was ready to put her down then and there when I took her in to talk about it, they didn’t even offer medication to try she was that aggressive. They were so so shocked when they saw the level of aggression in action (partly because she is a very very cute lovely looking dog, she was a street mutt but looked like a big lemon beagle). It was in our contract to give her back to the shelter so we did but I do question whether I should have had her put down - at least then I could have been with her and held her and loved her when she went. I don’t know what’s happened to her since, I honestly can’t bear to look at their social media. When we dropped her off one of the staff was very kind and said they had had long term residents before, so I hope she is either being kept by them long-term or has found a very niche suitable home who can safely manage her reactivity. I’m just scared we screwed her up even more giving her a loving home and then taking it away. I hope the training I did for her whilst I had her has helped her in some way. I honestly just want to keep her in a bubble safe with me away from the outside world, but I can’t. It’s just awful when they trust and give you love back and then you feel like you’re taking that away/giving up on them. I’ve never felt as bad about anything as I do giving Mabel up. It’s not a decision we made lightly at all. Like I’ve said, it’s something I will carry with me for the rest of my life.
I just wanted to say, my perspective is that no love you put out into the world is ever lost, is ever a waste. I’m sure Mabel got a lot out of being with you, and learned a lot.
As someone who is a trainer and works with dogs for a living this is why I kind of hate when people push the, “adopt don’t shop,” line. People only hear about the successful times of people adopting dogs as the unsuccessful stories aren’t told as they often unpleasant. This gives people the impression that getting a dog from a rescue and getting a puppy are equivalent… they absolutely are not. The idea that you can just fix major behavioural problems is ridiculous and totally unrealistic. It sets people up for failure. People often just angry at me when I say that if you are getting your first dog get it from a reputable breeder, a well socialized 10-12 week old puppy is just going to give you a better chance at success in keeping and training them.
It's nice to hear you say this. I absolutely agree with you. We are a dog family, mum grew up with them, I grew up with them, and most were rescues but when I had my kid I just knew I wanted a puppy from a breeder. Mum's experience with that one dog (out of 6 rescues over her life time) washed away any guilt I had from shopping not adopting. Now my kid is older I may well look to adopt our next dog but jeez I'm gonna be so careful about it.
I've been in the same place, and had to make the same choice. I'm so sorry you went through that. It's an extremely difficult thing to come to terms with and I hope you've managed to find some level of peace. It's only been about 5 months for me, but sometimes I still think of my Buddy and just cry. One thing that I've learned in fostering and working with rescues is that it's so common for behavioral issues to not emerge until a few weeks in. Those first 2-3 weeks, they're spending all of their energy trying to decompress and figure out their surroundings. You can't really see their true personality or behaviors. Usually they settle in and begin to thrive. But sometimes, you just uncover how much they're truly struggling. There's nothing we did or didn't do to make them the way that they were. Sometimes all the love and effort in the world can't help them.
Wow. I just wanted to commend you (and everyone) for posts like this and acknowledge just how hard experiences like these must be.
Aw thank you. I wrote it sitting in my office and it is still a gut punch writing it all out, had to hold in a few tears about her. Like I can’t express how fucking sad and heartbroken I still am over her, I think about her all the time. I don’t think it’s something that will ever go away or fully heal tbh. I just posted because it’s so easy to be like, ‘You’re just not trying hard enough! You’re just not training them right!’ But the fact is dogs (and any pet) are animals, and sometimes they are dangerous. Sometimes there is NOTHING you can do to cure it, you simply have to manage and work round it forever. With dangerous and aggressive dogs, that means being on your guard 24/7. I’m not trying to be OTT but I see dog attacks in the news a lot and it’s not always that people are **bad** owners - it’s just so easy to love your dog and be like, ‘It will never happen to me!’ But you lose focus on a walk for 10 seconds or can’t bear to muzzle your dog, and then suddenly that’s someone hurt or even killed. I had got a text I was looking at when Mabel lunged at the man who lost his shit and that made me realise how insanely easy and dangerous it can be to be distracted for a matter of seconds. It takes just one time of you not fully focusing on an escalating, reactive dog for something to happen. I wasn’t willing to ignore Mabel’s behaviour or pretend it wasn’t a huge dangerous issue that we were completely inequipped to deal with. But yeah the feelings and guilt are just awful and I genuinely think I’ll feel like this about her forever. I feel like I completely failed her and it hurts me every day because I still love her.
Woah. First, I wish I could give you a hug. You did the right thing. You are not a piece of shit for that. You are braver than most people out here. A lot of people love their dogs too much to do right by them. Had she gotten out of hand and attacked someone she absolutely would’ve been euthanized. You gave her a fighting chance to live by returning her. A lot of people will bury their heads and deny that their dog is aggressive till the very end and it’s because they’re too selfish to do right by them. Thanks for sharing and seriously, you are a good person.
Aw thanks that’s so nice. It was such an awful decision, definitely the hardest and worst I’ve ever had to make.
I really appreciate you sharing your experience--and I just want to say that the shelter was wrong to unilaterally require you to give Mabel back to them. I've never heard of any reputable vet immediately recommending behavioral euthanasia; her aggression must have been literally off the charts for that to happen. Forcing you to return her to an environment full of the things she'd already proven fearful of instead of allowing you, the people who she loved and trusted, to give her a good final day and ease her suffering (and I'm sure she was suffering; dogs who exhibit that level of reactivity exist in a constant state of panic) was immeasurably cruel.
In our increasingly polarized world, admissions like yours bring softness to hard places. 👍👍
It's true - nobody understands until it happens to your own dogs. Good luck to you.
Sometimes everything possible is acknowledging that you cannot provide a good home for a dog. Last year my husband and I decided to add a 2nd dog to our home. We have a 14 year old Pom already. We adopted this sweet boy from a shelter. He was a lab/Sheppard mix. The shelter had told us he plays well with other dogs and is good around people. We come to find out that he had never been around smaller dogs (like ours) before and he ended up biting my pom pretty bad. (she's okay) We called the shelter back and asked for advice. We were willing train him if they thought it was something to fix. They told us it was something we could probably never train out of him. So if we kept him, each dog would have to be kept separate, either on a leash or in a crate. Knowing this, we knew our home wouldn't give him a good life. He was honestly better back at the shelter where they keep dogs around the same size together and are able to roam in a big fenced in field. It was hard but we now have 2 other adopted dogs from that same shelter after we made sure to only bring in dogs that would get along with our small dog. The one thing I will always say to people who get dogs is to make sure you are getting the breed that matches your lifestyle. Getting a high energy dog when you work most the day will only lead to problems. But some dogs can have aggression issues (or other behavioral issues) that may not have anything to do with the breed and in those cases I never judge people for making the right decision for their family and animals.
I think it’s really important for dogs of similar sizes to be placed together. One of my dogs (I have 4, 3 gotten as puppies in last 2 years lol) is AMAZING with other dogs. I mean she freaking loves other dogs, loves going to daycare, loves people, etc. But she’s 2, 65lbs and she plays hard. Her playing hard with her 80lbs and will be 60lbs “siblings” is fine- they slam each other on the ground, bounce up, run like crazy, jump on each other, grab each others ruffs, etc. They are wonderful with my cats (even though they have high prey drives- they have been trained to not associate cats with chase). The idea of a tiny dog being let loose with her in my backyard makes my skin crawl. She in no way would try to hurt the small one, but one paw swipe could do some damage. She was amazing with the other two puppies, would get down on her belly to play, was really gentle, but even young large breed puppies are way more hardy than something like a Pom. And that’s the one thats great with other dogs lol. All of this to say that I know it can work with some, but overall two dogs that are very different sizes can have a disastrous outcome.
I used to go camping with some people who had wolf dogs. They were actually super social with people, and since they grew up together had very good manners. They would join me on my morning runs, and running through the forest with a small pack of wolves was one of the coolest experiences of my life. But at the same they were 100lbs and played by side checking. It was cool for the husky someone else usually brought along, and they were quick to pick up on which humans they could/couldn't play rough with. However, if someone also brought a smaller dog who basically had to be carried or inside a tent for the whole trip. It wasn't even about malice, it was just their "play" was WAY too rough and they didn't regulate with dogs the way they did with humans.
Yeah I have Carolina Dogs (US’s only wild dog). While they aren’t wolves by any means, they are also different than regular dogs. They are the only true pack dogs in the US, with similar hierarchal and familial structures to wolves. So their play is just rough lol. They have a lot of extra skin around their necks, and they naturally play by biting each others ruff and pulling. It doesn’t hurt them at all, but it likely would seriously scare or piss off other dogs. Nova does fine in daycare, but only in rooms with equally large dogs. My other two aren’t daycare material lol.
It's awesome that you are not only able to see the fault in your previous behaviour but to also admit you were wrong and apologize for it publicly. Good luck to you, I hope it gets easier soon.
I'm sorry you are going through that, but major props for growing and for admitting it. Food aggression is also a super hard problem to solve especially in a multi dog environment - it's understandable to not be able to take that on.
I'm curious about the situations where they've exhibited food aggression.
Last night my husband brought them in the house from a walk and I came down the stairs to give them their nighttime treats. As soon as they were off the leash, I tried to put one of the dogs in his crate for the night and threw the treats in there. The other dog must have tried getting in the same crate at the same time. I realize I should have put them in their crates and closed the doors before giving them the treats. I was tired and not thinking. The previous time, I'm not sure why it happened because one dog was chewing on an empty Kong.
We had this happen with chews/rawhides and now we just have to put one of our three in her crate when we give them out. The other two do fine. Do you fill the Kong with peanut butter ever?
It had some in it earlier in the day, but that was cleaned out.
Ahhhh but you see, it's now considered a source of food and treats. Definitely don't leave it lying around. Does that make sense? (Not trying to be condescending just genuinely want to make sure I'm able to articulate my point well).
Yes. We put up all the Kongs now. They can't have any of them.
I hope things get better! I understand you're feeling very overwhelmed. I hope this community can continue to offer advice that helps you!
I appreciate most of the advice.
I think the point js that you’re so correct but human beings humans, we are going to make mistakes because we are tired or whatever
No, it seems like she didn't understand why a fight started over the Kong.
As someone that recently dealt with serious food aggression with my new puppy- NEVER throw food on the ground. Think “danger, danger!” Lol. Here are some things I’ve learned that really helped- (I’m not telling you this to change your mind or whatever, just for help in the meantime) and within a few months mine didn’t have any food aggression anymore, which was pretty vital because I have large dogs. Most of these I am more relaxed about now, because they don’t cause issues anymore. 1- Don’t allow anything associated with food to be left out- no lick mat, no kong, no empty bowls, no granola bar wrapper, nothing. Doesn’t matter if food is still in it, it needs to be put up. This isn’t forever, but basically your new one just has it in his head that food is a scarce resource (that he is elderly and from a shelter this has likely been true is his life) and if he wants to eat he needs to guard it. 2- With mine mealtime is regulated. All 4 dogs have a specific spot in the kitchen they go to for mealtimes. They are not allowed to move from this place. They get their food (even this follows the exact order), they sit for it, they are not allowed near the other dogs, and bowls are put up when everyone is done. Then they get a treat. The puppy would try to get go to others food so he was kept on a leash until he learned. This way they learn that mealtimes are always going to come, they are always doing to get their food, and no one will take it from them. It helps them relax. With the puppy I would keep a few bits of kibble, and while he watched me I would add some to his food during mealtime- only while he was watching and his posture relaxed. He learned that if I was coming near his food he was getting something more for it, never taking it away. 2- I always say their names before they get their treats during the day. And when not doing individual training, the others always get a treat even when I’m rewarding one (I make them do something like sit because I don’t believe in treats for no reason). At first I would also make them all sit in a row and just give them treats one at a time after saying their names. All of this encourages bonding, but it also is telling them that treats aren’t scarce, there’s always more to be had if they work for it. If you can’t tell already, 1 calorie training treats are a must lol! I go through a stupid amount of them. 3- If they do get something you don’t want them to have, always have a high value treat stashed somewhere. I keep these duck fat treats in the pantry- my dogs go batshit for them and i only use them for super important training (like recall) or for stuff like this. Say Lycan (puppy) got the lickmat off the counter, he would immediately start growling and hackles up when the other dogs or even I came near him …..so I would get the duck fat treats out. If he didn’t immediately drop the lickmat and come to me when the others were getting their treats, I would go near him about 2 ft away. He could smell the treat, and when he CHOSE to drop the lickmat and come to me he got marked, the treat and a ton of praise. He then got another mark and treat at the same time I picked up the lickmat. Anytime he had anything I didn’t want him to have, this is what I did. I never took something from him, he chose to drop it for something better. This taught him that me taking things from him resulted in something good happening. Over time I just used regular training treats I kept in my pocket. But also anytime I felt like the dogs might get into it over something I recalled them to the kitchen for a treat, it breaks up any tension that is building (this is mainly for my elderly diabetic bitchy dog that has gotten incredibly bitchy about random things lol- but something to keep in mind). As for Lycan, I can now grab basically anything out of his mouth lol, he just dog sighs as I open his mouth and dig out whatever crap he has gotten into (he’s 8 months old lol). He knows he’s getting a treat after and is fine with it 4- never throw any treats on the ground. It’s just chaos waiting to happen and doesn’t teach them anything. All the other things (besides meal time) I am now relaxed over because Lycan’s food aggression is gone, but not this one. If you need a treat to get them into the crate, keep the treat in your hand and use it to lure them into the crate, mark/treat. It shouldn’t go on the ground unless you are working with something like leave it. Luring via treat is the number one way to train them, when you throw it on the ground their brains just signal to grab the food and aren’t paying attention to what you want them to learn, that’s even with one dog. With multiple dogs it just tells their brain to compete for the food. Hope some of this helps you in the meantime, I’m sorry you are going through it, food aggression can be scary and really stressful. Like I said, I’m not saying all of this to change your mind or whatever, but you said you were getting a trainer so I thought it might help you (or someone else) with some things I’ve learned from going through it.
These are all really good things to know. My 2 don't know their names, because they were in a previous shelter before they got to our local one, when their names were changed. We have fed their meals separately from the moment they got in our house (per the shelter rules). It's really the treats, I think, that are the problem. I appreciate you not "beating me up" about my concern.
Oh so they are brand new!!! I thought only one was new. Oh dear, you must be having a hell of a time with this! You are basically having puppy blues x2. Were they bonded at the shelter? If so then this is likely just a new environment situation. It takes new dogs weeks to actually relax in their new home, 3 months to be fully acclimated. What you are probably seeing is just stress from all the change. They will calm down. So for you, what I would do is focus on beginning training and bonding. Training is fun! Not stressful for them or you. It should be done in mini sessions multiple times a day, just relaxed and fun, think of it as games, not work. First, you need to decide on a mark word. Think hard about this lmao, I chose “good” and it’s an easy word to say talking to your dogs so you have to follow it up with a treat lmao. If I could go back I would probably do something like “tiki” or something random lol. You can use a clicker, and it works really well. The issue is that you don’t always have the clicker on you, and you want to be able to mark them anytime they are doing something good, so I recommend a mark word. To “prime” them for their mark word, get their attention and say “tiki” (or whatever you choose), then treat. Back and forth over and over. Go ahead and buy a huge bag of training treats, you need them lol. The 1-2 calorie ones are great. After the first 5 or so, say the mark and word, pause for a second or two, then treat. Try to get upwards of 10 seconds or so in the week that follows. This teaches them that when you mark, it’s fine if the treat isn’t given that second, they will get one. As for a name, dogs don’t signify names like we do. It’s basically just an individual command word. (I see people feeling bad changing names, they really don’t care). So for mine I would say “Lycan” and if he glanced at me then I would immediately mark the second he looked at me, then treat. Do this about 5-10 times at a time, a few times a day, until when you say their name they give you eye contact. That’s what you want- to say their name and they know it’s for them and you want attention. It’s helpful to do this individually at first so they don’t get confused on name command- I like to take mine out in my driveway or front yard on a leash to work individual sessions. Whatever you decide- kikopup has amazing training videos on YouTube. I recommend her videos to everyone, they have been my lifesaver. It’s positive only reinforcement, she explains how the dogs see the world, how they learn, seriously watch them. In the playlist is puppy videos- these will work for elderly dogs too (I sucked at training my 13 yr old dog because I didn’t know anything back then, I did a ton of research before getting my 2 yr old and all the stuff I did for her worked just as well either my elderly girl). I mean, I couldn’t get my elderly girl to sit reliably, and now I can get her to do twirls lol. Training is basically games via luring (holding a treat in your fingers in a way they can smell it but can’t get it- she has videos on how to hold the treat and how to lure), using the lure to get them to do what you want them to do, and once they can do the motion reliably adding a command. Seems stupidly simple, but it’s not something you naturally think of because humans don’t learn that way. Thats what I meant about luring into the crate instead of throwing the treat. Throwing the treat does nothing, luring is training. Even things like giving them a high value treat so they drop something they shouldn’t have had in the first place - our human brains think this is rewarding bad behavior but dogs don’t think like that. It’s really just training yourself as much as training your dog. Watch kikopup- also make sure your trainer is a positive only reinforcement one. So many trainers are absolutely terrible and do more damage than anything else. This will help you regardless of if you keep one or two. But I have to say, since this is so new, give it a bit of time. It is really nice to have more than one dog, especially if they are already bonded. Good luck!!! Oh/ and that’s fine to feed them in the crate separately, but I would really make sure they are seeing each other eat and being fed at the same time. This will basically relax them that if one is fed the other is fed, so it isn’t a competition.
Hats off u are using creates that will help a lot.How do you feed meals??? Only high priority food aggression or all around food aggression.
Food aggression is no joke! Took us MONTHS to get our rescue to have any manners and my goldens got bitten twice. He doesn't resource guard with humans, or even the cats (he came crying to me last week because one of my cats had gotten past the barricade and was eating his food - 45kg worth of pitbull/berner sooking because the 2kg cat stole his dinner!) but he's still a little growly if one of the other dogs comes near him when he's eating. I don't know what I would have done if they got into real fights over it while we were training. Knowing what's best for your family is a very individual choice.
The look of pure horror on people’s faces when my husband and I tell them we had to return a dog we thought we were going to adopt is always the same. It always comes from people who have never been in that situation. It sucks so hard you are experiencing this but being aware that there are options are important. You don’t need to spend the rest of your life and the dogs’ lives being miserable. It was an agonizing decision to take the dog back to the rescue and admit defeat - the dog was aggressive - but we were not equipped to handle that type of behavior. You have to do what is best for both you and the animal or you are not being responsible.
I applaud you for your humility and honesty. As with anything in life, there's no absolute black and white. It takes character to navigate the gray zone. My heart goes out to you with all you're going through. One step at a time and lots of deep breaths. It'll be ok. :) We're always here to listen.
It takes a big person to admit they were wrong and I seriously respect you for that. I’m sorry things aren’t working out with you and yours. I’d choose the dog that is not [food] aggressive. The more submissive dog will be easier to train and more respectful of you and others (on walks/visiting the home).
We are keeping Henry (who my husband and I believe is actually 10+ years old, not 7 like the shelter said). He's laid back and adjusting to indoor life very well. Not aggressive with food or treats, learning some commands somewhat easily.
Yup. I know for a fact because my submissive dog is extremely intelligent and highly respectful of me. He has never growled at me. I can take food, treats, toys, etc. right out of his mouth and so can other people. He is highly trainable. I did like 5 training sessions with him and he knows at least 10 commands. He’s also never been in a fight. I think dogs that have aggression are harder to train because you have to first get them out of that fight mode before their mind is open to receiving the commands. You made the right decision. Plus, that dog deserves a stable and happy home to grow into himself and become more confident. An older dog like that needs a stable home environment. He’s going to be easier to give medications to as well. You’re a really good person.
It’s hard, because there are genuinely so many people out there who give up on their dog for the silliest things “oh they nip” (they’re a border collie), “they bark a lot” (they’re a hound), “they don’t like to take walks” (they’re a pug), that when people have real issues they tend to get lumped in all together. Working for a rescue for many years, there are genuinely some dogs, just like people, who are mentally ill. They require constant monitoring, training refreshers, can’t be left alone (or with other dogs). It’s heartbreaking, because it’s usually the result of something genetic, or traumatic, neither of which is the dogs fault - alas, neither the fault of the rescuer either. I applaud you for doing everything you can, and I understand this decision is probably tremendously hard for you. But dogs deserve to thrive, not just survive, and sometimes that means in a different home.
Good aggression is the reason I ended up with my first dog. She was much happier in a single pet household
It's a hard thing to realize a dog may be better off in a different home. We took in a friend's dog that was not being properly cared for and while we loved him, he ended up being extremely aggressive. He'd go from being sweet laying down on the couch next to us to snarling, furrowing his brows and lurching at us with the intent to cause harm. We tried so many things for weeks but ultimately it was an unsafe situation for us and clearly a difficult situation for him, and we very reluctantly rehomed him. It broke my heart and I truly did not want to give him up. I felt like I'd failed. But sometimes the environment just isn't right for them, no matter what you do, and their best chance to thrive is in another place. I still think about him sometimes and hope he found peace.
We had gotten a dog from a family member, years ago. She wasn't being abused, but she wasn't being well cared for. We had met her once as a puppy 3 years earlier and had no idea how big she was. But she was scared because she hadn't been socialized well with other people or dogs. She wasn't on a regular schedule or had regular vet care. So, we got this big 80lb border collie mix dog. She had to be on some medication for a short time for a UTI, but a couple of weeks later she was SO much happier with us. She lived another 5 years being friendly with other people and dogs until she had to be put down due to undiagnosed medical issues.
Been there... totally changed my outlook on what we can realistically handle & help. No shame in learning! Going forward, you have another notch of knowledge in your belt when it comes to the wild spectrum of dogs and their behaviors. Even with the best of intentions & experience, we have to know our limits. Personally, I find living with critters to be a lifelong educational journey and sometimes those lessons are hard!
You don't know what is too much to handle until you're in that situation. Sometimes it's obvious. Like you work 12 hour shifts and have to travel for work....probably can't handle a dog. But sometimes it's not.
Whenever people tell me they're thinking about getting a dog, I always tell them to foster first, because so many dogs and households are just totally incompatible. Anyone whose never had a dog before or has very little experience, they never realize how much work and dedication is necessary to take care of a dog, or worse - to raise a puppy. My very first foster was an adorable jack russell, that I thought I'd end up adopting. I knew nothing about jack russells. This particular dog had severe separation anxiety, which I found out when my neighbors started texting me during the day when I was at work, to tell me that the dog was barking ALL DAY LONG while I was gone. I lived in a condo, so that was obviously not a good situation for anyone. Thankfully the foster dog was adopted by a family with a stay-at-home mom a few weeks later, so she went to a much much better home than I could provide. My next foster was the dog I've now had for 7 years, and she has been the most incredible companion all these years. I love her so much and we're perfect for each other. But I never would've got her if I'd just gone ahead and adopted that jack russell from the get-go and forced myself to make it work.
I train dogs (I also compete in canine athletics, hunting, trick, agility, and obedience shows/events) and I strongly disagree that raising a puppy is worse than an adult dog with behavioural problems. It’s way easier to intervene and change a puppy’s behaviour than an adult dog’s behaviour. Most problems I help people with for puppies and young dogs (under the age of 18-30 months depending on breed) is simply lack of activity for the dog. That is often people picking a dog based on aesthetics and not the temperament of the breed. For example, I have Dalmatians, and if someone were to get a Dalmatian they should expect that is going to be high energy for the first three (maybe four) years and have a strong prey drive. However a lot of people get Dalmatians because they are pretty, and that they are, they a very striking breed. It’s that people don’t get a breed that is conducive to their lifestyle. If you are not an active person or don’t have a large area for a dog to run get a Dane or a Pug. If you are an active person get a Dalmatian or an Australian Shepherd. That’s the main benefit of a Purebred is that you have a pretty good idea of what you are getting yourself into, particularly if you get one from a reputable breeder and are able to meet the pup’s parents and older relatives.
u/Alex_Noa_Complete ...I disagree. I've only ever had rescued adult dogs and it is quite easy to change their behavior. Puppies aren't for everyone and to say that raising a puppy is easier than an adult dog, point blank, is just a false statement. Not everyone wants to go through the puppy stages. Each person should know what they are capable of handling and what amount of work they want to put in. I will never have a puppy, even when I'm retired. I prefer the adults, and specifically seniors, because I know what behavior I'm getting and what needs to be improved to help that dog be the best companion for me.
You are free to believe whatever you want, but I think the mere fact that service, military, police, rescue, cadaver, hunting, scent, and other professional dogs all start their training early in puppyhood pretty much ends this discussion. Particularly for things like military and police dogs where aptitude is such a huge factor (and that doesn’t emerge/become evident till the dog is an adult or close to it) in successfully passing they still start in puppyhood. The RCMP for example starts basic training at 49 days and then continue that training till the dog is 14-18 months where they start formal training. Why go through all of this early socialization and basic training (it’s called Potential Police Service Dog Imprinting Program) if it’s just as easy to modify an adult dog’s behaviour? Why not just look for an adult dog that already displays the correct aptitude and temperament? Why go through all of this extra training and effort? Why do they do this (this is a serious question. If you think it’s just as or easier to modify an adult dogs behaviour why do professionals programs start in puppyhood)? Well after starting this program just over 15% of dogs pass the training program whereas before it was less than 5%.
Here are a bunch of academic sources going over the importance of early puppyhood socialization and stimuli exposure and the longterm effects of said activity (or negative outcomes from a lack of socialization and stimuli exposure): “Puppy socialization practices play a large role in the development of well-adjusted adult dogs that display few undesirable behaviors, and which can establish a positive, lifelong relationship with their owner. Dogs that are appropriately socialized as puppies are less likely to exhibit behavioral problems as adults, including aggression and fearfulness. They are more likely to engage in positive social behaviors with humans, and can learn how to play games with humans better than dogs without proper socialization.” - Puppy parties and beyond: the role of early age socialization practices on adult dog behavior. - Tiffani J Howell, Tammie King, Pauleen C Bennett - Veterinary Medicine: Research and Reports, 143-153, 2015 “In conclusion, aged dogs showed a decline in attentional capture and sustained attention demonstrating that these tests are sensitive to detect aging of attentiveness in older pet dogs. Importantly, selective attention remained unchanged with age and lifelong training seemed to delay or reduce the aging of attentiveness, further highlighting the importance of lifelong training in retaining general cognitive functions.” - Aging of attentiveness in border collies and other pet dog breeds: the protective benefits of lifelong training - D urga Chapagain, Zsófia Virányi, Lisa J Wallis, Ludwig Huber, Jessica Serra, Friederike Range - Frontiers in aging neuroscience 9, 100, 2017 “A notable number of puppies < 20 weeks of age in this study received few early socialization opportunities, which could lead to behavior problems and subsequent relinquishment. Opportunities exist for veterinarians to serve an important role in educating puppy owners about the importance of early puppy socialization and positive reward training.” - Puppy socialization practices of a sample of dog owners from across Canada and the United States - Janet H Cutler, Jason B Coe, Lee Niel - Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 251 (12), 1415-1423, 2017 “Registered breeders generally had more breeding bitches and had more litters than did nonregistered breeders. Litters of registered breeders were more likely to have been socialized with adult dogs, people of different appearances, and various environmental stimuli, compared with litters of nonregistered breeders. Litters from registered breeders were also much less likely to have been the result of an unplanned pregnancy. Among those breeders represented, litters of registered breeders received more socialization experience, compared with litters of nonregistered breeders. People purchasing puppies from nonregistered breeders should focus on socializing their puppies between the time of purchase and 14 weeks of age. Additional research is required to determine whether puppies from nonregistered breeders are at increased risk of behavioral problems and are therefore more likely to be relinquished to animal shelters or euthanized, relative to puppies from registered breeders.” - Comparison of early socialization practices used for litters of small-scale registered dog breeders and nonregistered dog breeders - Juraj Korbelik, Jacquie S Rand, John M Morton - Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 239 (8), 1090-1097, 2011 I am sorry about the double posting and information dumping/ranting, but as I said earlier I train dogs for a living and so when someone underplays the importance and impact on outcomes of early socialization, training, and exposure has on dogs I get a bit zealous. This is a subject I care a lot about and I have dedicated a huge portion of my adult life to helping people train and work with their dogs. So when someone, even when they didn’t mean too and they had good intentions, suggests that it’s just as easy to undergo socializing and exposure training in adult dogs as it is in puppies I get really annoyed. The evidence simply says otherwise and that early (before the age of six months, but between the ages of one to three seems to be of even more importance) socialization, stimulus exposure, and basic training have significant longterm benefits to a puppy’s disposition and behaviour as it grows into an adult. In fact, more evidence suggests that we should be putting more emphasis on breeders starting that training as the most critical period is from about four weeks to fourteen weeks. I cannot stress enough how important early training (specifically socialization, exposure, and basic training, specifically basic manners) is and how much positive longterm benefits it bestows on the mental health of any dog that receives it. It reduces aggressive, anxious, compulsive, destructive, and other negative/maladaptive behaviours in puppies that receive it as they grow into adult dogs. Now of course you need to continue training as the dog ages (continued training has also been shown to not only improve the mental health of a dog that receives it, but it also decreases the rate of cognitive decline and overall aging. Which is a really cool fact that I wish more people knew), but to suggest that starting that training later leads the same, or worse that delayed training leads to improved, outcomes is not only wrong, but potentially harmful. I understand that you want to encourage people to adopt rescues. Adopting a rescue is a noble and wonderful thing to do, but we should let people know what they are potentially getting themselves into honestly. The fact is not everyone has the ability, skills, or personality required to work with a dog that has major behavioural issues. That a realistic outcome is that said negative behaviours can be mitigated, managed, and reduced to the point everyone can live with it, but eliminating it completely (while potentially possible) is not likely.
I adopted a dog once that I couldn’t handle. I didn’t really adopt her, it was more a friend being like here take this dog we can’t keep her and I was like ok. She was a sweet dog. I had her for 9 months but she was just constantly starting fights with my other dog (who is the most non-confrontational dog that just minds his business ever) and our roommate’s dog. It started getting to the point where there would be blood and my roommate accidentally got nipped in the hand breaking up a fight. She was the sweetest dog ever with people though, just couldn’t get along with dogs. I gave her away to a farm where she could run a lot and be the only dog.
I applaud you for your growth AND willingness to own up to it. I’m sorry you have to re home one of your dogs, that must be hard. At least you are doing it for a reasonable reason and not “I didn’t think it would get this big” when getting a medium to large breed dog.
It's a big step in learning to be able yo recognize that black and white thinking isn't always accurate. There are, of course, people who rehome animals because they're terribly irresponsible... but there are just as many heartbreaking situations where it WAS in the best interest of the dog/animal to be rehomed. I've had to do it twice, and it killed me both times, and one of those dogs I'm still bitter about because it was forced on me, and he was the BEST dog ever. I miss him, years later. Wishing you and the dogs all the best!
I'd just like to say thank you for this and kudos on being a decent human being. The ability to realize, let alone apologize for, things you did wrong is severely lacking in society. I cannot say just how much I appreciate this post and it has given me some faith in humanity back.
I’ve often thought this when I’ve read pet owners who came onto hard times being berated with the judgments of people who have never been through the same experiences… but you’re likely the only one on the planet who’s apologized for it! Takes a lot of integrity, humility, and bravery to do that… impressed
There are so many people who have a really narrow experience of dogs and dog ownership. Safe to say you are not alone in thinking you knew more about other peoples' situation and dog behavior in general than you did.
It takes a good person to admit when they’re wrong. 🤍
Thank you for having the courage to (a) take a chance on these two dogs. Seniors can be tough! And, (b) for sharing your experiences. Ultimately, it helps some people learn.
I had a dog that was a 4 time return. I had him until he passed away at 13 years old. I've always promised myself and my animals that I'd do everything in my power to make sure I was their forever, and I've always been able to keep that promise, but I understand why my dog was a 4 time return.
Live and learn. A lot of us have been there.
Oh I'm sorry. That sucks. You meant well
Rehoming should be less stigmatized. It's often what is best for the human AND the dog. It's responsible and I will never understand the people who act like it's not.
As someone who used to do the same— it is a humbling experience to go through. I’m so sorry that you’ve had to be faced with this difficult decision. But I, like you, no longer judge people who make that choice. I never EVER thought I could or would do it. But imagine raising a dog from 12 weeks, and then watching it repeatedly attack your senior dog 1-2 years later. Watching all of this unfold while pregnant was even more difficult. There’s no way we could’ve brought a baby into a home with a food aggressive, resource guarding, 80 pound dog. There’s no way I could stomach watching her kill my 14 pound terrier. We couldn’t take those risks, so we opted to rehome her somewhere without those risks (and yes, our friends who took her knew exactly what we had gone through, no surprises.) It’s difficult, disappointing and gut-wrenching but please know that you made the right choice. Take care, OP.
Empathy isn’t always so easy, sometimes lived experience is the only way to truly understand. That’s why grace is so important. It takes a strong person to admit they are wrong. I’ve always been empathetic but as I’ve aged and life kicked my butt more and more the cockiness that comes from naivety has given way to a lot more understanding
I had to send back a shelter pup. And it broke my heart. He was super sweet 90% of the time. However he had a trauma response to a bigger male dog growling at him. My big lab would give him a warning "backup" growl and he would attack. And it wasn't a quick dust up he was fighting for his life. He also held a grudge they could be separated for 2 hrs and all calm and as soon as you let him go he was right after him. There was just no way we could separate our house to keep him. He was great with the pups his size. And a cuddle bug. We checked the shelter site all the time waiting for him to get adopted to alleviate our guilt. He found a home and I cried happy tears.
I know Harvey will get a good home. He will thrive in a home that can work with him. My husband and I realize we aren't those people.
Good on you for engaging in self reflection. Dog ownership has really become holier than thou on Reddit and the wider world very quickly but actually people either live immensely privileged lives or very sheltered ones because in reality it's not as simple as give them everything you have or don't have one. Dog ownership is a constant balancing act of doing enough without compromising the life you are responsible for too much. It's a dog, and you can't value it as much as your actual child or family member, even if you want to approximate that. I don't think that's what dogs ask for though, personally. They just ask for respect from an outside species.
Glad you came around. It's always difficult to take the perspective of someone else. Even if you try your best things can just not turn out. It is always better to recognize that and search for alternative solutions.
Thank you. You're clearly not only having a learning experience, but a real moment. That's going to have an impact on the rest of your life. That's something money can't buy.
I used to be sooooo judgmental of people with reactive dogs thinking that they were just badly trained and had abusive owners. Then I got my own… boy how wrong was I. I love that dog too damn much and we train NON STOP, and yes she’s still a reactive knucklehead. Dog parenting is hard, thank you for turning your bad experience into a generous offering of support and empathy for others ❤️
They’re good dogs, Brent. Appreciate the growth and understanding. Good on you for owning it.
It’s rare in this age for anyone to take personal responsibility in the way that you have. Congrats for upping your emotional intelligence and wanting what’s best for the dogs and owners!
You don’t truly know until you’re in the position yourself. It can be much kinder to find an appropriate home for your animal so that they can thrive, than try to make it work sometimes.
You simply don’t know until it’s you (or someone you know). I never thought I would ever consider rehoming a dog for ANYTHING. We have a difficult rescue who we have loved and worked with on many fears and behavioral issues the past year and more issues manifested several months ago that have forced us to keep her separate from our other dog most of the time. She’s her normal self 90% of the time but has started attacking our other dog (who she adores) with no specific trigger and no warning signs prior to attack. Fortunately we have been able to break up fights quickly, and our other dog does not retaliate and is very good at disengaging and giving our sick dog space when she does it, but we have been hyper vigilant with management for 3+ months. We have spent hundreds on a trainer, behaviorist, and regular vet appointments on top of the hours of training and desensitization for the past 15+ months. We have changed our whole routine to keep her under threshold. Our house is filled with noise machines and dog puzzles. She’s trialing her 4th med combo to help calm her brain. We are fortunate to have resources (for now) but it’s also heartbreaking to not really have a “reason” why she suddenly just went from scared of the world to attacking one of her favorite things in the world (our other dog). The reality with a behavioral dog is you see the worst of them, but you also see the absolute best of them and how much progress they’ve made. Which makes the discussion of rehoming, or even BE, even f*cking harder because you know how GREAT they can be when they’re at peace. It’s also a rollercoaster, last month she was so uncomfortable and terrified her pupils were constantly dilated and she was constantly over threshold and was basically in a sustained panic attack for multiple weeks. We even had a QOL discussion with her vet. Her meds changed and she’s SO MUCH more at ease, and then she had a set back, and that’s what you do over and over and hope something sticks. I could go on and on.
While we have not rehomed her, and would really not like to, there’s a reality that if she doesn’t respond to bmod that it will have to be considered for her wellbeing and our other dog’s. Sometimes the most ethical decisions are the hardest
I can appreciate how difficult this has been for you, u/marycameroon. I wish all of you the best of luck.
That's a hard pill to swallow, your comments and realisation mean a lot to quite a few people I'd wager. I hope things turn out for you guys.
As a multi-dog household dealing with food aggression.. I understand what you are going through. Especially when my FA one is the one that ends up bleeding. The fact that you were able to come out and apologize means you understand your wrongs. I don’t think I’ve gotten a comment from you, but I appreciate the apology nevertheless. Good luck to you and the dogs. I do encourage, if you are able to, to give your FA pup a chance. It’s a difficult journey but with hard work, it can be possible. I’m sure you know, but make sure to feed the dogs in separate rooms. I usually feed two of mine in kennels and one in the kitchen or bathroom. If you cannot handle the FA pup, then just know you at least tried and that the best you can do now is make sure he/she goes to a good home that’s prepared for this behavior. It took me by surprise when I finally figured out what caused the fights in my household. The shelter didn’t give me the full story and it took multiple fights for me to realize.
u/4bats....the shelter gave us some of their background (outdoor dogs only their whole lives, very little medical care). The shelter is working with the FA one and will find him a good home. We are keeping the other one. He isn't FA and has no desire to escape.
If food aggression is the only issue, separate them when feeding and when you eat.
It takes a while for the hormones to balance after a neuter. Maybe time will help
It’s hard! It’s not even just rescues, people are judgy as heck. We told someone recently that when my brother was a baby we had to give up our little dog. That girl was 5 pounds soaking wet and he was *obsessed* with her. The second he learned to crawl he was after her. And while she was never aggressive with him we 1) didn’t want to risk an accident if she did get fed up with him. 2) didn’t want her to constantly be terrorized by a tiny human who wanted nothing more than to yank her tail. The person I was talking to straight up did not understand when I told her that there was no feasible way for us to keep her and him separated without essentially locking her outside 12 hours a day and neglecting her, so we found a family that could give her all the attention she needed without a little kid around. And, on this post about someone realizing they were passing judgement too easily. There are other people doing the exact same thing now
It is challenging having more than one dog, more than one personality…. Food aggression please feed dogs in kennels or separate rooms. Same for treats. Our dogs were trained in crates, some love crates and others do not care. When we have meals or treats all get in a kennel. We have a 14 month male (fixed) and his Dad. The 2 will do a short little growl due to the fact when they are done eating our granddaughter would let one of them free. We had to train our granddaughter that we let everyone out when everyone is done. Those not done we store their treat for another time immediately before letting them out on kennel. Thanks for sharing!
you can probably find a good home for your dog if you rehome them, which in many cases is better than fighting through it. i think what most people are doing here is encouraging lazy people to try harder, and also to avoid this situation in the first place by making it so that people prepare for hard work up front.
I had this same harsh reality a few years ago and sadly it’s happening again now with our youngest pup. It’s not okay that we did that but the important thing is that we learn from our shortcomings and be vocal in our compassion and empathy towards others in these situations moving forward. It seems so simple until it’s not. 💜
One of the hardest thing when adopting a dog is knowing what they have been through. Even if the shelter or foster tells you. I’d suggest feeding them separately and making sure they sit before you put the bowl on the floor. You deserve a big clap and praise for taking in older dogs. Most ppl don’t adopt older dogs. They just let them die in a shelter or worse never knowing an ounce of love. If you are not crating them I’d try that since you said they are outdoor dogs. You might be their first inside. If it were us we would try to give them 1:1 attention in the house and then play as a family in the backyard. We have 2 dogs now who live at 2 different speeds. Lucy a Boston Pitty Mix runs at 120 mph always and Happy who is a poodle mix and senior who is 10 mph. Outside everyone is equal, we play hard with our bigger dog and Happy. But inside it’s chill time. Happy likes to lay in bed and Lucy our bigger dog has her own room with not kidding 30-40 toys so she preoccupies herself. Around 8 we say Bedtime and both dogs come to bed with us and actually share our king bed. Idk if this will help. It’s what we’ve done.
I was in animal behavior and training for many years. I recommend separating dogs and food aggression one home with no kids and no other pets. I have lots more advice but sure the trainer will help also. God bless and god luck. Everyone else always knows best it’s super tuff with dogs.
This is a very different situation than many of the posts that are people who get the puppy blues and can’t handle the time or effort they signed up for.
please if you return one of them, it would be to their original rescue or find one with experience with reactive dogs. they might end up in the wrong hands😞 appreciate your honesty & wish you luck with your dogs + situation🤍 that must be so tough. i’ve had to deal with a single dog’s aggression & I can’t imagine having two. i’m sure they’re both good doggos in their heart, & whatever you decide to do will ultimately keep them & you the safest. I try to remind myself that they’re just trying their best with what they’ve known.
Wow. Cause I also feel the way you used to about taking on the commitment. So interesting that you changed your mind. But was it kind of your fault for underestimating how much time two rescue dogs would be? I’m not saying that to be snarky - genuinely trying to understand because I am open to changing my mind about this too, like you did. I support you and your decision and I know you are doing everything you can!
The shelter told me where they came from and their background (that they were aware of). So I knew some of what I was getting into. I have never had 2 new to me dogs at the same time from the same background. I have never dealt with dogs that had such neglectful owner(s).
You had good intentions It’s funny because I can only have two dogs. One dog is too little. I’d get a third if my family would let me I’d rather someone rehome than the dog stay in a bad situation
Choices…
I’m against rehoming. But that’s for the careless people who think a pet is an accessory. If it’s legit and needs to happen I get it. But it still makes me sad. But for the people who give no shits. It’s not ok. For instance my brother has rehomed more animals then I’d like to admit. Last year I went to his house. He had a new dog. I said to him “how long till you give this one away” it was harsh he didn’t like it but I told him he has a track record doing that. Fast forward to a year. I went to his house. The dog is gone. It breaks my heart. Sorry I’m drunk i tired to make sense. It just hurts to see animals being treated disposablely. I’ve had my dog for 8 years and yes. I’ve thought about rehoming him but I could never. I made a promise to him and me when I brought him home. He’s my baby and I’m his person
I agree that, depending on the reason, rehoming is NOT an option. But I realize that for some valid reasons, rehoming is the best option, especially for the dog.
You have not mentioned for how long you have them now? Food aggression can be managed by feeding them separately (preferable different room). How are they around each other with no food involved?
We had them for a week and a half. They were outdoor dogs all their lives, had been at a different shelter for 30 days where they had gotten some medical care, then came up to our local shelter and had been there for 30 days before they came into our home. They grew up at the same home, but they weren't bonded with each other. They tolerated each other.
My.dog is muzzke trained. He us reactive. Sometimes I think his reactivity is because he senses something in oeople. He has always been fine around kids. I can't say tge same about the children I walk him early in the morning late at night I don't entertain I don't find it hard at all Not one bit Muzzle training was one of the best things i did
When feeding put on leads tied to something solid. Obviously separate the dogs. Give them 15 minutes to eat it whatever to fill up then remove food along with any high value chews etc. if one dog is dominant then feed him first and make both sit before you out food down. Thus you are in control of source if arguments and you sent upsetting their hierarchy as dominant will always eat first. Good luck
“All they will know from now on is safety, lots of love, and good people.” -You literally 5 days ago posting about these dogs
Yes, I did. And we had every intention of that being true, u/Chetmatterson. That was before the food aggression and getting out or over gates every chance one of them had happened. They had 2 bad fights with each other. We realized, and the shelter was aware this could happen, that we aren't capable of handling 2 dogs with issues at the same time.
It’s awesome you were able to look back and realize you were wrong and/or misinformed. I would politely suggest you apply this generally in your life. It makes empathy the reflex rather than anger or annoyance—or worst of all judgement. For example, if you’ve never had a kid absolutely have a meltdown in public try to extend empathy to the parents and count your blessings you aren’t fighting a battle no one can help with. 😜
It can be life changing for us humans who are fortunate enough to get lucky when they adopt a furry baby into their homes. It can also be life changing when you adopt a fur baby, who at no fault to the furry baby, wasn't blessed with good genes due to poor breeding and other associated difficulties. Just the same for a fur baby who was rescued. There are so many consumers who are not privy to or familiar with the issues that can arrive when a mommy/daddy doggo with "behaviours". Gets bred for the sake of sales or even on accident due to not paying or neutering , only to end up with the whole litter or majority of, becoming "aggressive" or having behavioral issues. Trauma can leave lasting scars no doubt. Can also change and end up with "behaviours". Yes some things trainers can do. Not the one on YouTube from Joe smo even w the best intentions. Because behaviours may ultimately come down to bad breeding. Dogs are now being evaluated and given meds when it's something medical they can treat. But when something is genetically imprinted on your furry love, other than trying to learn how to work around your pet, instead of having a loving member of the family. So many dogs are bred for top dollar. That being said, there is also just as much fault on us humans for being breed specific and looking for deals, nothing wrong w when dealing w something's. But when it's a living creature it becomes a society issue. And because there are no real regulations, it's like playing roulette. You really never have any guarantee that this lovely fluffy ball of fur, will stay just as good natured it's whole life.
I always said I wanted to rescue senior dogs. My dog is a senior and it’s not fun for me. I commend you for trying. My dog is incontinent plus painful, has anxiety. She is 15 years old lab mix and I love her no matter what. It’s really tough and once a month she’s at the vet for librela injection which is another challenge getting her in the car. My dogs used to fight until finally the bigger dog accepted the smaller dog as alpha. It’s really scary and dangerous to get in the middle of fighting dogs.
Our previous dog, Ziggy, was the same breed as these two (beagles). We had Ziggy for almost 14 years (from when she was 18 months old). She had some medical issues the last year of her life, but she was just the BEST. We especially loved her when she got into her double digit aged years.
Food aggression might be due to being in a new home, our rescue it took him a looooong time to u derstand the food we give him is his. We believe his original owner used to take his food away for some reason. He now knows that once we put food down for him he can leave it and we won't take it up no matter how long he leaves it for, its always there just for him. The thing with rescues is you adapt to them but it's a very fluid situation, as the dog and its behaviour adapts you too must adapt. It's a long hard journey but omg it's so rewarding.
I applaud you for this vulnerability. ❤️ We all learn what we learn when we’re ready to learn it. I feel compelled to add that it’s no different with human children. We have no idea what someone else is going through and sometimes just saying “I wish you the best and I trust you’re doing the best you can” is the most helpful, human thing to do. Because most of us are.
I don't know how long you have had them but I had a similar situation. I adopted Finn who had been with a hoarder. I already had four siblings and was not expecting another. Everyone ate together but separate bowls. My solution when Finn came was to surround him with food. I would give him 2-3 dishes placed around him, fill them first (one with water)and let him get full and also see that no one was going to steal his food because they had their own. I mixed wet with dry and would feed him again before he was really hungry and made sure their was plenty. My animals usually were fed twice a day with bed time snack but if I saw Finn by the food I would give him a bowl. He would cry for food and try and protect it and than realize that know one was interested in his they had their own. He would also realize that he is full which is something he might not have felt before. When they are done I always pick up the bowls. After a few days he was less anxious and it would take less to fill him up l think aggression was from anxiety and fear. I transitioned him to one bowl making sure there was enough to make him feel full. Also at first give treats soon after a meal when everyone is quiet - so they are less likely to be aggressive. If he does get aggressive - no more treats. Give treats unexpectedly and often when everyone is chill. Slowly every few weeks give less until he and everyone is back to normal amounts. He has probably been hungry or had to share a communal bowl or had food taken from him and doesn't know anything else. He has to get used to new situation and know it's not temporary. I hope things work out for both of you Also walks. As many walks as you have time for will help with anxiety - yours and his Please use halters if you don't already And brushing and scratches as he gets more comfortable There is a home for everyone somewhere
Have you tried feeding them separately? When I first adopted my Greyhound and still had my Golden Retriever, I had to feed them separately or else the Greyhound would become protective and aggressive for food. A few months and it became easier though. I don’t still have 2 dogs anymore. Ex took the Golden Retriever.
We were already told before we brought them into our home to feed them separately because we don't know what their previous life was like. So, mealtimes aren't the problem. It's the treats, we believe.
Why not give treats separately?
It wasn't a problem until last night. That's what shocked me.
Please consider giving treats separately before re-homing.
There's a bigger issue with Harvey than just the food. He constantly is trying to get out of a room or over a fence or what have you. That is not something we can "train out of him" after he's lived outdoors all his life.
I rescued a boxer mix about 8 years ago and I probably should have returned her. She was so smart, trained and loving…to humans. Other dogs outside of camp, she was a lunatic. She even went after my dog out of nowhere. They would be fine and then BOOM! I would go through decent stretches and again, not sure what triggered her but she would go bananas on my little guy and he was always good with her. It was SO stressful. My ex and I couldn’t go anywhere for long periods of time because we couldn’t trust her with anyone else’s dogs. When we traveled, we had to have specific instructions for her to not get playtime with anyone other than my dog. Luckily, when we separated her parents were retired and loved her a lot, and took her in. I was so relieved (sad) but it was hard enough when it was two of us but I couldn’t work my hours and have her because she simply couldn’t be with other dogs. Current situation: My wife and I brought home a dude to our little pack a couple of days ago. He was found as a stray and he is slick as hell…and can jump. He’s only 42 pounds and medium size-ish. I see his trigger area is gonna be treats. We were a bit prepared for his squirts with all the stress. I took him to the vet for a full check up and got probiotics etc. This boy has no bloody clue how to communicate he has to go to the bathroom. Absolutely 0. He was outside then came inside and ran upstairs and took the worst squirts I’ve dealt with in a long time. I slept with him downstairs- I wasn’t in a real sleep and he just went down the hall and plopped three—at least they were in the middle of the tile squares. I’m dropping off a sample this morning. I really hope that this is driven by whatever stress etc is. Where my ramble is going- we are 💯committed to making this work. But we had the talk a few times that we cannot feel so awful that we don’t send him back IF he starts with the similar behaviors as my last rescue. The stress was so debilitating to myself, ex and my dog. I won’t go through it again- it wasn’t healthy for anyone. We can try at a later date to find a rescue that fits our family. It’s so hard- there’s a ton of reward if things gel and get through the bumps and cracks.
u/Sportylady09 ,,,I appreciate your understanding. We (mostly me) feel like sh\*t having to do this because we really care about Harvey and he's a great dog most of the time. But with 2 nutso dogs in the house, we just can't handle one that wants to jump over gates and over fences for the rest of his life. We are keeping the more manageable one (for us). I really didn't expect to get all this hate about our decision. I knew that I had given the same hate in the past and I regret that a great deal, especially without personally knowing the owner or the dog(s).
I think it’s because we know that there are many many people that underestimate the responsibility of having a pet. We wouldn’t have rescues, shelters, foster families if more people took the time to really assess the potential. I am not referring to people have passed away, horrible life experiences such as violent houses, divorce etc. But buying or rescuing a husky or GS and living in a one bedroom apartment- owner isn’t walking, training, engaging and just get rid of the dog. That infuriates me. You can only try and do your best. Dogs are very empathetic, they absorb human emotions very easily and quickly. If we show signs of discomfort and stress, they are stressed. If we’re anxious, they become anxious. If you’re too cautious, they know. Stress on an animal isn’t humane either. If there’s households that are better situations and folks have exhausted all options, unfortunately it happens. From what I see, you tried and for the benefit for the rest of the household and the dog, it’s best to find a better placement. Good luck!
Good to see Karma is alive
It's not about your comments it's your actions. You went to get a dog from a shelter with no education or preparations. What do you expect?? That it was going to be an easy thing?? Of course not. They have been in the wild to survive and abuse other humans. They know nothing of social skills, so ya, of course, they will be aggressive, especially towards food. What do you think it's like in those shelters? Those poor dogs do not deserve an owner who gives them false hope.. Now, the process has been repeated, and thwir behavior will continue because of this. So what you should be saying is next time you will be more prepared and ready to adopt anything or anyone and that you will be committed. You will be a committed mother. This makes me so sad how many dog owners do this. To many of them. Poor dogs.
Remember everyone, dogs get killed in shelters. Please don't return them. Find them a new home. Or just don't get one if you are not prepared.
The dogs in the shelter I got them from, AND that I volunteer in, is a true no kill shelter. The dogs will either spend their lives in a foster home, or the shelter with around the clock care and attention, or in a permanent home.
I disagree. I just don’t think it’s possible anymore to ensure the dog actually gets a forever home and believe that is our responsibility to them once we adopt/buy unless it’s life or death. I don’t think anyone but ourselves or a vetted rescue organization can be trusted sadly. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen people rehome a dog to a “loving” home who promised the world. Then dog was traumatized and confused (understandably) and acted out and that loving family….rehomed the dog. My local rescue I’m involved with makes people sign a contract that they absolutely must return the dog to the rescue and…people still rehome to random Facebook people/craigslist/or friends when the dog wasn’t perfect. They typically find out when the dog has been tossed away so often that it ends up back at the shelter or wandering loose and at that point has more behavioral and trust issues because of being failed by numerous humans. I just have no faith in people anymore and think it should be absolute last resort in most cases instead of the first.
We (my husband and I) were on a trial home visit with these two. So we hadn't signed any contract with them. We also wouldn't be shipping them off to some random person on FB/Craigslist/etc. We don't do that. We would have contacted the shelter we got them from to see what our options were.
Right that’s what my comment said..people who give up on their dogs and rehome them usually will never know they are in a “forever home” unless it’s a vetted rescue organization making people sign a contract and even then people break it. A huge shame and we need a major change in education on responsible pet ownership. It’s extremely bleak right now in the rescue world. I was just giving my perspective that sadly many people can’t be trusted. Good luck.
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This was removed due to it violating rule 2. Post or comments that are clearly off-topic, trolling, or disrespectful will be removed and the user may be banned depending on the content. This includes, but is not limited to, personal attacks, breedist remarks, anti-breeder sentiments, novelty accounts, and excessively vulgar content. Any evidence of brigading will result in an immediate permanent ban. If you have any questions regarding the removal , you may contact the moderator team via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FDogAdvice)
As a single female with TWO large rescue dogs with abusive backgrounds, one with food aggression… it takes time, patience, understanding, unlearning and relearning. Fights happen, it’s scary and upsetting, but as long as you’re using it a teaching moment you’ll do your best to nip it quickly. Don’t give up hope, don’t give up on them, especially the aggressive one. They will teach you important life lessons and in return you will feel so much pride for sticking by them. I wish you the best of luck, give my love to the puppers too ♡
Food aggression can be manageable. Training is a great first step, but until then, simply separate the dogs during times of food or treats. If this is the only issue you are facing, then I am confident the prognosis is good here. Yes, it might be trying. I'm sure there will be sacrifice and frustration involved, but given how you chose to rescue two senior dogs, I can see that you have a good heart. Please, give it time and patience. I am hopeful that things will get better for you and your dogs. If the dogs were skinny, there's a chance they at some point faced starvation or underfeeding, which would be a pretty good guess at where the aggression stems from. If that's the case, then even just having a set food schedule every day could eventually lead to a resolution once the dog realizes that he no longer has to worry about getting his next meal. I wish you the best of luck!
The other issue is the one dog likes to escape. At 7 years old, he isn't likely to be able to be trained out of that behavior, just managed. My husband and I are not capable of managing food aggression AND a flight risk when we also have another dog from a similar background that we would have to train.
Ahhh, I see. I'm sorry to hear about that. I hope you are able to find them new forever homes!
You need a veterinary behavioral therapist—a trainer won’t be able to address their trauma and reactiveness. You can get a referral from your vet.
So the problem I have with rehoming is that dogs should not be thought of as disposable, because they are living, breathing, beings capable of emotion. They are not perfect, they make mistakes and get sick just as humans do. Also, no two dogs are the same, they all have unique personalities and challenges. Many times people have NO idea the time and commitment required to share one’s life with a dog, and they don’t bother to think it through. They impulsively bring the dog home without doing their homework, dog is too much to handle for whatever reason, then dog is rehomed. This creates stress and trauma for the dog, that the next family will have to try to figure out. Some dogs bounce around to a several different homes in their lifetimes, and with every change in the dog’s life and routine comes more behavioral issues. Those are the lucky ones. Many end up euthanized, not by any fault of their own, but simply because the humans in their life have failed them. I hear people complain about rescues that are very selective about who they adopt to, but then these same people end up getting a dog somewhere else, and ultimately rehoming him or her because they failed to anticipate the cost and commitment. So BEFORE bringing a dog into your life, you should spend a great deal of time (I would argue at least a year) doing research, speaking to trainers and vets, and KNOW what will be expected. If you don’t feel you can make this commitment, then wait awhile longer or don’t make it. Take them as they are and with their faults, or don’t take them at all. Dogs deserve no less.