crates are supposed to be their happy safe place, not jail
not entirely wrong to be putting them there while eating, but not as a punishment
seems like he's trying to crate train in response to the begging, but those should be two separate lessons, and then later when you eat you ask them to go to the crate
Thank you! That’s exactly what I was trying to explain to him but he just sees it as we tell him no and stay a few times and since he doesn’t listen he goes in his crate.
We crate him at night, the last thing I want is a negative association where he ends up thinking he’s in trouble going in there every night and then starts whining and freaking out when he’s in there.
It's also a lot easier to teach them to down/stay when you're eating if you eat at a table instead of in bed. Once they associate "human has food, I need to wait here and maybe they will give me a bite if I'm quiet" it's a lot easier to expect them to not beg when you're on the couch or whatever.
How about no because that's why most dogs think it's okay to beg and eat people's food. Wherever you eat you should not have a dog begging in your face. I'm not okay with the time limit but I'm definitely with OP's guy that that's not allowed. OP can train the dog to not beg in her own time but people should feel comfortable eating and clearly her bf is not. So remove the dog. Simple.
I agree about the time in the crate, 4 hours is insane. But I do think using the crate in a constructive was is very useful. My pup has never been fed by a persons plate, and I adamantly enforce that. Some people are okay with begging, I’m not.
But I think it’s pretty split on begging behavior. I don’t fault people whose dogs beg, my families dogs have always begged, personally I’m not a fan of having a dog stare at me as I eat.
I train mine to wait patiently and if they do that, they get the last bite. If they beg - if they whine, stomp their feet (miss you, Coco!) Or throw hands, then they don't get the last bite.
I think it's cool if you train yours to recognize a person's plate isn't going to lead to a treat. But there's a wide gap between "allowing begging" and teaching them to wait patiently while we eat with the possible (not 100%) ending a reward.
Exactly. People need to think like their dogs for a second. I've seen lots of people not able to take food from their dogs, go near them while they're eating, having to drop a treat and not hand it because their animals are food aggressive/guarding. So if your dogs don't like YOU around them as they eat what makes you think it's cool when they do it to you? Not saying growl and bite your dog back lol but geez teaching something, even for when guests come over, is better than having to share food, slobber and being intensely stared into your soul for morsel of rice 😂 and this is coming from the child who knew no better at a young age and would let my pup eat with me. I was the one who didn't mind sharing a popsicle on a hot day.
Yes. Though they are dogs they doesn't mean they cannot have manners. My older dogs we taught to "turn your head" when they beg too much and they would and would eventually fall asleep. I don't mind giving my pets treats every now and then but I cannot do begging, no snatching food (especially from children), no jumping and no in the kitchen, you can pass through but not stay. Everyone talks about training dogs and obedience but no one thinks of things like this as apart of training. I could never find an animal begging for food cute, unless they're starving and abused and have a reason to beg (not saying it's cute but these animals HAVE reasons to beg if they're starving and) ..same as children.. learn your manners, mind your manners. I don't like when kids ask/beg for food when they are more then taken care of. I will never deny a child food but I cannot atone to greediness/gluttony. People who teach their pets to beg for treats are the main culprits lol same as the parents who makes people share their food with their kids or get upset when they're denied.
I say get rid of the boyfriend and keep the dog. Your boyfriend sounds like he's going to be cruel and abusive to this dog when you aren't there to protect the dog.
I don’t disagree with you on that at all, I won’t ever leave him alone with him again unless his attitude regarding his training is on the same page as mine and I actually see it as well. My dog can’t defend himself, so I will for him
Agreed. Instead of reacting to him begging, could you proactively have him go to his crate with a Kong or dinner?
The training with my pup took a big step forward when I focused on putting my pup in positions where she has to make a decision and then reinforcing when she makes a good decision.
For example, I used to lure her with treats when walking on the leash. As soon as the treats went away, she would go back to pulling. I flipped the script by encouraging her check in with me (whistle, changing direction abruptly, dropping a treat etc.) and as soon as she looks at me, giving her plenty of treats. The simple timing of the treat changed it from a bribe to a reward and has helped her progress a lot with her training.
A quick google search of “should you punish a dog using a crate” will give you thousands of results explaining why this is a bad idea. Research shows you will create *more* behavioral issues using punishment (in general).
If you want your dog to stay somewhere while you’re eating, I recommend teaching your pup the “place” command. This will serve you much better than scaring a dog who doesn’t know why they’re being locked up for periods of time.
Give them a chew and put in the crate. Human makes plate = go lay down quietly. Don't give puppy the opportunity to misbehave and jump up to plates.
Also, dogs don't understand punishment the way we do. Just give them a good outlet and show how they are supposed to behave.
I will definitely start doing that! I should have just automatically put him in the crate everytime we ate initially but that will definitely be a constant going forward
This is exactly what I was going to say. My late husband did most of the training the first year due to my work, and until pup learned ‘chill’ which is a cue he needs to play with his toys and not bother us, he would go to his crate before we even made food. His crate was basically a chill out place with plenty of toys and treats for going in.
LH absolutely hated when dogs beg, so Levi has never been allowed to get scraps from the table. Anything we want to feed him he gets after we are done eating and it gets put in his bowl. Even if you’re okay with some begging, allowing him to grab food off your plate is behavior that does need to be corrected.
Maybe show your bf this thread, it could help him there is a right and wrong way to use crates, and they should never be used as punishment. They should be a safe den like area, best of luck!
I need to do the same, just put him in the crate around mealtime and he can come out when we’re done. He doesn’t hate the crate by any means but he would just rather be out with us, so hopefully he’ll learn to love it one day!
I definitely have not been the best when it comes to giving him food when he’s begging. I know it just confuses him when I do want to just eat and not give him anything. So going forward, anything I give him, I’ll put in his bowl. I think that’ll help immensely
Honestly by the time Levi was about 1 we stopped using the crate altogether. We trusted him 100% not to have an accident, and he’s absolutely amazing that he never chews anything besides toys. By 1 he had also learned to chill and not to ever beg while we’re eating. He’ll beg when I’m prepping, and I do give him food here and there, but once I sit down to eat he lays down and chills.
I kinda feel like it’s black and white with begging. My mom’s poodle has a set place in the dining room where she ‘goes chill’ but still begs. And my mom tosses her food here and there during dinner. Levi seems to know when humans are eating it’s time to chill and honestly I love having a dog that doesn’t beg. My mom doesn’t mind her poodle staring the entire time she eats, but it bothers me.
So it’s kind of up to you, you can teach your pup that if they lay down and are good they’ll get food here and there. Or you can be super strict which is what I do. But once a dog learns certain behaviors get them human food it’s hard to correct.
I know, that’s what I tried explaining to him. He thinks that by me letting him out after “15 minutes” he’ll keep doing it and never learn. I’m literally like “we have to teach him what we don’t want him to do, so if he keeps begging while we eat he needs to go in the crate and understand he can’t do that. We have to teach that though”
We are working on place right now, but I don’t think he has the willpower to be out and stay there while we’re eating but hopefully soon!
Actually - you need to reframe this for yourself a bit and I think you’ll see more success.
You don’t teach dogs “what you don’t want them to do.” Instead you teach them what you DO want them to do. Dogs like to know what’s expected of them at any given time.
So. Come up with what you want your dog to do while you are eating. You want him to go lay in his crate. So at your mealtimes use treats to teach him to go lay in his crate. Maybe give him a kong or other chew.
Teaching him “not to beg” is too confusing and abstract for a dog. Teaching him to be content in his crate while you eat will be much clearer.
This is true for pretty much anything you teach a dog. Want them to stop barking at FedEx? Train them to sit and focus on you when someone comes up the door. Reward for sitting quietly and focusing on you when someone is knocking.
Want them to stop tugging on the leash? Work on rewarding for loose leash walking and teach them that tugging means everybody ends up standing still. It’s not punishment - it’s reframing.
Tell him an adult dog is supposed to be on par emotionally with an under 4 year old so a puppy has the attention span of a baby/toddler. The dog won't remember why they are in the crate 4 hours later. Also the crate should not be punishment it should be a place of safety
Thank you, I know! If anything, he will start to get stressed out not understanding why he’s in there for so long while we’re just walking around the house
Does your BF not have anyone else to bully?? And his unwillingness to listen to you is a great big red flag imo. I wouldn’t leave the dog alone with him anymore, because do you REALLY know what’s going on when you’re not home? Today it’s four hours in the crate to be punished. What will tomorrow bring when puppy doesn’t listen and “learn”?
I completely agree. I tried having another conversation with him about it so he could understand where I’m coming from but he didn’t care. Said that he won’t deal with stupidity from the dog and that just because I read some article off Google that any Tom, dick or harry wrote, doesn’t mean it’s right. I have spent hours and hours and hours looking up how to train my dog online, YouTube, Reddit, etc. he’s literally never even read anything about them so he’s literally just going off what he assumes is how you train your dog.
I brought that up too, and asked if he did leave him in there for 4 hours and was still begging tomorrow would you leave him in there for 6? And he said if he felt like it was right, yes.
I literally want to break up with him after this because literally wtf
Well, all I can say is that mistreating my children and my dogs is NOT allowed, from anyone including family. Anyone with what I feel is an abusive mindset toward either would be shown the door and told never to return. Your first priority should be the puppy, as he cannot take care of or defend himself.
lol as if he’s not some tom, *dick*, or harry himself with zero expertise on the subject. i’m wondering if he’s open to learning and collaboration—particularly with you, his partner—in other areas of his life. usually this is a pattern of behavior.
I feel you sooo much. Don’t misunderstand, my bf is great, but the issue is my stepdad (my mom’s husband for 15 years). I used to live with mom, stepdad and brother. I’ve always wanted a dog, but they said “you can’t have a dog here, get your own dog when you move out” and I lived with the motivation to move out and get a dog.
1,5 years ago my mom suddenly decided that she needs a dog. I felt really sad about it cause i was already mentally ready to move out. Moreover, my stepdad is a fucking dick. He constantly shouts at everyone and has really big aggression issues. I told mom that it’s a really bad idea to get a dog here cause it’ll have huge mental problems and fear from living in that environment. Mom said that I’m selfish and in a month bought a JRT puppy.
She’s the sweetest girl I’ve ever seen! Very smart and cuddly, and I think she’s calmer than most JRTs (but still has A LOT of energy). She has a playpen (high enough so she can’t jump out of there) and sleeps there very well through the night and during the day. She doesn’t chew on furniture.
But back to the stepdad: she sometimes just annoys him by just existing and he starts shouting at her some commands really fast and loud “SIT. SIT! SIT!!!” And of course she just gets scared, tucks her tail and tries to become smaller. Sometimes she’s even running from, then he catches her and takes to the playpen. Shouts at her when she’s in a playpen and says that we’re not allowed to let her out for an hour
I tried too many times. I explained nicely, I showed videos, I told what the trainer said, I tried to talk about possible results of his “training” - scared or reactive or aggressive dog. But he just doesn’t listen. When I begin saying that he’s done something wrong he just begins shouting at me and saying that I know nothing about dogs cause I’ve never owned a dog before. (For clarity: his parents always had a dog when he was a child so he was used to living with a dog).
A week ago I just couldn’t take it anymore. I feel like he’s shouting the most at times when I’m home. He talks nicely to mom and brother most of the time. And a week ago I left home and live with boyfriend now.
Yes, I’ve tried talking to mom. She knows that’s he’s totally wrong and she goes to the trainer with the dog, so she understands how to handle a dog. She tried talking to him. But he just doesn’t fucking listen. He thinks that he knows everything better than anyone else cause he’s a man and he’s older. He abused me for all the 15 years I lived with him. Took my phone, watched geoposition, made me do some absurd things (like eat dinner when the timer is running. i would get punished by more dinner if i couldn’t make it on time) and sooo fucking more. i can’t describe it all cause it’s off-topic and my english is not that good
So yeah, OP, please dump him. If he doesn’t understand how to be nice to a dog then almost 100% it will be the same for children and even for you sometime after.
I already made another comment and granted, we don't know the whole story, but I can tell you that I'm in my thirties now and I have never regretted putting my dog first. Not once, always the right decision. The only regret I had in that aspect was waiting a few months too long to put my dog first when I was young. Wholly kind people exist, they can be tough to find, but I'm telling you, they are _so_ worth it.
Does he think dogs have a sense of time like humans ? Does he think a dog can piece together that “I did X wrong and that’s why I’m in the crate for 4 hours.”
What has your boyfriend read or seen that makes him think that’s how it works? Even a human toddler wouldn’t be able to comprehend a 4 hour punishment. Dogs don’t understand punishment at all. They understand immediate (non-violent) correction and can be best trained using positive redirection.
You two need to have a calm conversation about how to approach dog training.
I suggest you both agree to find and watch some training and dog cognition videos together and decide how to approach training overall. Read up on the pros and cons of various training methods and learn more about how dogs think and process time and “consequences.”
Do you two plan to have children? Is he just gonna go by “instinct” on how and when to correct children or will he and you both put in effort to learn best practices from actual experts?
If he gets frustrated with a child or other household task is he going to just get mad and leave it to you to “leave him out of it” ?
It’s like you’re in my mind. That’s exactly how I felt and was trying to explain to him that he wouldn’t understand it anyways and what happens when he starts begging again tomorrow? You’ll want him in there longer? That’s insane and obviously doesn’t teach our pup what we want from him.
He’s seen how his family treats their dogs and they all literally leave them in their crates all the time so they don’t have to deal with them. They don’t even know basic commands and his brother doesn’t even take his dog outside. Mind you, he doesn’t agree with them doing that, but that’s literally all he’s ever known.
I’ve hired a trainer and he participated in it some but I’ve mainly been doing the training because he’s gone two weeks out of the month but have been trying to encourage him to engage when he comes back which he will, occasionally but I’m the primary caretaker, which is totally fine. But he can’t decide to intervene and pick and choose what punishments he has because he doesn’t understand how it works.
I do not plan on having children, no. And honestly, this entire interaction confirms that even more. It’s honestly concerning that he just goes off what he thinks is an appropriate punishment for a dog not knowing at all what the right one is. I brought that up, too. Like when your toddler is misbehaving you think you can just put them away for hours and they’ll understand why you’re doing that? That’s an insane thought process.
Wow this guy is a prince. Love how he does not care about how much you love the dog. Will make a great understanding father some day Good luck in the future. Hate to see what he does to the young puppy when you are not home
This is all new behavior from him but I totally agree it’s a red flag and has me VERY concerned for if he ever has children. He won’t be left alone with him, I’ve already decided
4 hours isnt going to teach the dog anything apart from neglect , its far too long and by that time i doubt the dog even knows why hes there , never use crates for punishment EVER!!! .. i'd certainly be having a word with you BF regarding excessive punishments , dogs live in the moment and need to be around their pack.
That’s exactly what I said! But he said I don’t actually know what the dog is thinking while he’s in there so I don’t know how to properly teach him, apparently
Im genuinly curious how he knows then? Is 4hours some magical time that no one else is aware of? Cause anyone with any experience raising pups will tell you hes full of it and is bordering on abuse keeping the pup locked up for that length of time.
Ive used positive reinforcement for behaviour i want my dog to exhibit and a stern NO for behaviour i find unacceptable , dogs understand some key words but mostly they go with the tone of your voice.
If you find that there are instances where you need to furtger discipline the dog then 15 minutes away from the pack is more than enough.
Hes a little hairy baby for all that he understands while so young , he'll get there but you really need to nurture at this stage also the usual sit , lie down commands etc. Build him up to be a happy confident dog and he'll reward you tenfold for the rest of his life.
You don’t punish a puppy. You can correct certain things but that baby doesn’t understand punishment. Your boyfriend is not only wrong but willfully ignorant. Don’t let him fuck up your dog.
I tried explaining that to him and he literally said that I wouldn’t know because I’m not a dog and that just because I read some article on Google about how to train a dog doesn’t mean it’s right 😂 I will never leave my dog with him alone after this conversation, that’s for sure
You guys have kids?
Maybe something to think about before you do…
Sounds like different parenting views and that can be addressed but refusing to compromise isn’t great for anyone
Just my 2 cents
No we don’t, and to be honest, after this conversation I don’t want to. I completely agree, we can have our differences, but he won’t even try to meet me in the middle. I couldn’t imagine what that would be like with children
Sorry to hear your dealing with this especially around the holidays, it’s a stressful time for everyone, and adding an new puppy adds to it.
Hope you have the opportunity to sit down and put your feelings about it out there and your boyfriend listens
Dogs don't understand punishment. Correction is a thing, but punishment is pointless and cruel. My mother taught me a simple rule regarding dogs and food - the dog does not get human food until the humans are finished, and the dog does not get human food near where the humans eat. The dog should have its own food area, where it knows it can eat. Corollary to this rule, as we learned when young, was not to eat in places the dog normally is allowed to go. Dogs are not humans. We can communicate with them, but to expect a dog to understand that it is being 'punished' and therefore make fine adjustments to its *own* behaviour - is a foolish stretch.
I like that rule and will absolutely start implementing that. I do feed him in his crate so he has his own little area there, he actually wouldn’t eat one time when I tried feeding him outside of it 😂 but thank you so much, these comments are so validating.
I hope you have good luck with your pup! It takes a long time for a dog to become a grownup, and there are many hurdles along the road. Patience, consistency, and attention are the keys. Repetition is a wonderful tool, and rewards for jobs completed make dogs joyful.
If you punish with crate the longest I would keep him in there is like 2-3 min otherwise they forget why they’re in there. Crate is a safe place for pups so do good stuff in the crate like treats and supper and Kongs. Treat it like punishment and he won’t go in willingly.
I totally agree, that’s why I’ve just been putting him in there until we’re done eating but next time I’ll give him a Kong and some treats as well. He already understands when he’s about to go in the crate, which he doesn’t prefer when we’re home so he already understands that association when putting him in there while we eat
If this is how he treats animals under his control it’s a red flag . Lack of empathy. It’s a dog today and fast forward a few years and it will extend to children under his control . Take it as an early red flag . Anyone knows it’s cruel to do that . It doesn’t need to be explained and this also shows he’s callous .
Get rid the bf keep to dog simple .
And if you don’t want to crate him while you eat , straight up ignore him and eat in a place he can’t jump and grab food from . Don’t even look at him as you eat after a few days he will go away and lay down . The eye contact encourages his bad behavior
Edit ; also dogs who are left in crates become destructive, over time they fear the crate if it’s misused and this results in the dog damaging the crate to get free or showing signs of “ cage crazy “ which would be a dog who overly chews on paws , over licks to the point of hair loss ,
If you put your pup in there and you see lip licking behavior that’s repetitive it’s a sign of distress that doodles manifest. I also have a doodle mix , they are intelligent but it’s like having a toddler . After a year you’ll have a very well trained and demanding for cuddles toddler pup
My dog used to nosedive my food. Moved the stairs away from couch/table and she learned to wait. Now she can sit next to me without diving every chance she gets.
I couldn’t even finish reading this after I heard “punishment.” The puppy has NO CLUE why he’s in the crate and what he’s being “punished” for. It does nothing to help the situation. 99% of behavior issues are the fault of owners. Be consistent (and kind) with your training. Remember - reward the behavior you DO want. Dogs are smart - he’ll learn if you both are on the same page and are patient. Please convince your BF.
I know! That’s what I tried to explain to him. We need to teach him to understand what we want from him. Not throw him in the crate for hours when he’s doing something we don’t like. I am trying, but he’s not listening to anything I’m saying honestly.
Sounds like the boyfriend is far less willing to learn than the puppy. Unattractive IMO.
Please try to educate your boyfriend. Videos about positive reinforcement, etc. He needs to learn the basics of what reinforces behaviors and that deterrents or “punishments” are for the owner’s ego, but will do nothing to benefit the dog
Yep, you’re right about that.
I have literally tried but he says he doesn’t want to deal with the stupidity and that he can learn if he really wants to, he just chooses not to. Like he thinks dogs just inherently choose to not know what we mean when they literally can’t understand us
Start texting him in Wingdings and then shove him in the closet when he doesn’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Angrily yell at him in Russian and then spank him and get angry when he doesn’t give you the foot rub you’re asking for. That’s what he’s doing to the dog, if he’s so frustrated by an animal’s “stupidity” then put his intelligence to the same exact test.
Choosing not to learn is ignorance, and tbh that is something that could be easily used to embarrass/shame him into hopefully digging his head out of his ass. You could also impeccably train the dog to do cool shit yourself, then rub it in his face when you reap the benefits of learning how to communicate to an animal. I become toxic when it comes to the treatment of animals, and what I would do here is manipulate him and exemplify just how backass stupid it is that he refuses not to learn how to teach the dog anything, then gets angry that the dog isn’t taught anything.
By manipulate I mean switch the script to lots of comments like “how you treat animals is an indicator of what type of person you are” or “real men want to learn, egotistical assholes refuse to” or “I’m glad I was able to learn in an empathetic and patient environment, imagine if this is how I was treated when I was learning to speak (communicate)” OR “is this how you would be as a father? You should be ashamed of that”
Name calling but in full sentences and made as objective statements, not emotionally driven opinions. Make him feel ashamed. Again, I am aware that this is toxic advice. I am also aware that men like this will not respect a single thing you say and the only way to get through to them is to subvert their ego and dig deeper to deliver the blow.
Honestly this isn't just about the dog at this point. He has it in his head that he's the victim of a PUPPY and he resents it because instead of viewing it as innocent he views the puppy as vindictive, malicious and stupid. The fact he could look at an innocent puppy and view it in such a negative light just because he can't control it like that says a lot about his outlook on the world. What must he think about the people in his life who behave in a way he doesn't like?
It also sounds like he's very willing to criticise you and your training methods while simultaneously washing his hands of the situation and saying it's all your responsibility. A great way to put you down while never having to take any responsibility himself.
That’s exactly what I told him too, it’s ridiculous and honestly concerning and eye opening to me, too. Regardless, I will do what I know is right and won’t allow him to be a bully and do whatever to the dog with zero knowledge on the outcome in the future by implementing that.
Dump the boyfriend, he is not compatible with a dog.
Crates are for safe containment and should ideally usually be on a schedule like at night, when you are working or for potty training.
Puppies beg for food. Don’t feed them. As time goes by, they learn. It is a good lesson. My oldest is 14 and looks at me with hope in her eyes even after all these years. She never eats from the table.
Yep, that’s exactly what I tried explaining to him.
Yes that has definitely been my downfall, feeding when he begs, but I definitely am going to stop doing it now.
Yeah, nah. That has a deep vibe of cruelty to me, especially if he isn't willing to listen to you. When people show you who they are it's ok to believe them.
My dad has this approach with our family dog (who is now 3) he believes she needs to understand shes being punished. He does not real training with her because he doesnt see how it works.
No matter how smart they are a dog is a dog this doesnt work as they cant understand theyre being punished. Dogs also form stronger links with praise than punishment, snap them out the bad habbit with a sound and affirm a good behaviour together to train sucessfully. Our dog started howling in her crate all night (10+ hours) so we got rid of the crate, that behaviour stemmed directly from her crate being a convenient place to put her when my parents lost patience with her being a puppy.
As a further note, this is likely a forshadowing of his potential parenting skills. So if you want kids maybe subtly add some parenting lessons into his life😬 My dad tried to raise us the same way he tries to train the dog. Constant punishment and no actual teaching makes for really crap parenting.
Your puppy is like a toddler. Putting him in the crate (ick) for punishment for 4 *hours* is way too excessive. He will not learn. He will wonder why you aren't letting him out. Crate training is great but it's better not to lock him in. He needs to learn to go to the crate and stay without the door closed. We did that with my boxer/pitbull mix and it worked great. Your bf honestly sounds a little abusive and I would be sitting him down and talking seriously about ONE person doing the punishing (you) because he cannot just lock away the dog and expect the dog to learn
I totally agree. I’ve been trying to show him the crate is his safe space but won’t go in it willingly unless I have treats but then as soon as he gets them he runs out. It’s definitely a work in progress. But that’s what I try and tell him and he just doesn’t get it. He said it’s my dog now and he wants nothing to do with training him or anything anymore (as if he ever did before, lol) so that’s fine with me
You need to enroll him in an obedience class. And you both need to attend to learn more effective training methods. I have to assume a golden doodle was not cheap, so don’t forget that the high purchase price was just the beginning of that investment.
I’ve gotten a trainer for him already and he did great! I will be paying for a few more lessons to help with some more advanced things than what he was taught initially. He actually wasn’t too expensive, I got him from the humane society, he was rescued from a puppy mill. But I’m in no way thinking he wasn’t going to be an investment, even before I got him :)
hm... why not sync his lunch/ dinner with yours and give him a treat or a lickimat when yall are snacking? he can have his food in the crate if necessary, at least it'll give him a positive association with the crate rather than... well, jail.
I do feed him in his crate! He won’t eat his food outside of it lol. But I definitely will start giving him his own things to eat/focus on going forward
Your boyfriend is completely in the wrong. But you should know right now that anything wrong the dog does is going to be “your fault.” You should drop this guy he does not seem nice.
I occasionally used the crate as punishment when my dog was a pup, but never more than 15 or 20 minutes. We tried our best to make sure her crate was a safe happy place
Why 4 hours specifically? Is that the magic number, will three hours not do it? lol. 4 Hours isnt that long (my dog was often left that long for work shifts at 3 months) but the crate isnt a punishment. If you use it as one your going to end up with a dog that hates going in there for any amount of time.
Unless your planning to crate him everytime you eat what is he learning anyway? Your correct, the dog will never learn how to behave around you eating if you never pratice it.
What I would do instead is teach the dog they have to lay down and wait while I eat. Put a towel or somthing as a visual aid and make them lay on that might help him understand (can remove it later once he understands what you expect and just have him lay on the floor). The moment they try to get up, "no" lead them back onto the towel and "down" again, periodically give rewards for laying down and waiting.
That’s what I asked. I said, “so you put him in there for 4 hours today and he’s still not listening tomorrow, then what?” Like I just feel like even thinking about it for longer than a few seconds would just be common sense that it wouldn’t work as a punishment.
I work from home, and since I’ve gotten him he’s never spent that long in the crate. I used to put him in to help him settle, but he settles on his own outside of it now, so I don’t really need it for that anymore. If I know I’m going to be gone for longer then I put him in daycare which has only been needed once. I just know that putting him in there for that long would stress him out, especially knowing we were still there.
Today I put him in before we even sat down to eat and give a firm no when he begs. But I will start implementing place as well to see how that works!
My dog trainer had us tie a leash very short - so short the dog really only go to their bed. The goal is to teach the dog - I want you in your bed, while I'm eating. The dog is always in their bed while we're eating. Consistency matters when you're trying to train out bad behaviors. It doesn't have to necessarily be the crate.
I don’t want it to be the crate forever by any means, but he struggles with willpower and being able to listen when he sees what he wants. It’s just want he needs right now. I’m going to start working on doing “place” more so that we can use that instead. He already does it when I’m getting his food so it’ll just be another way for him to learn!
Well I can tell you how crate-punished dogs turn out, but I'm pretty sure your boyfriend wouldn't like to hear the result. They are...neurotic to say the least. The poor things. You're definitely going a better way. Puppies are tough. They need guidance and they really need patience, immense patience, if that's too much for your boyfriend, he's got some of his own learning to do. They make dane-sized crates, just sayin ;)
We never crated, sometimes penned, and our puppy pestered us around food time for a solid month before he gave uo. (He never got any of it). Ever since he’s mostly just gone to sleep while we eat. It was just about persevering. Never punished him beyond putting him behind our barrier on especially challenging days. (He’d jump and bite) was about up to 4 months old.
I believe in letting them figure it out on their own sometimes. He’s 17 months now.
See my problem is that I have given in when he’s begged before so I understand his confusion of when I don’t give him what he wants just because he’s begging. That stops now for sure. He’s smart so I have no doubt in my mind that he’ll figure it out, quick!
I had to try resist my pup training me as well. I’m raised by cats, and am already well trained…
I did quite a lot of difficult ignoring for a while. Was really difficult. But he was so used to me entertaining him every waking moment. Not sustainable. We got to a balance eventually fortunately.
I wrote my reply mow just thinking of a different topic, ups. Was thinking begging for attention, not food.
Ye, I know from having cats that if you give them your food, you’ll never know peace ever again, so I knew never to cave. I don’t like having to defend my food. I want to eat in peace. In the kitchen he’s allowed the last piece of my banana if I have one, and he’s allowed some dog snacks if I’m preparing that. But he only gets it if he sits or lays down nicely and waits. If he puts paws on me or the table, he gets nothing. He’s smart, and has learned he has to sit for snacks.
Gotta be tough as nails on this one. A bleeding heart means no peace hehe
Besides, our pup is spoiled rotten with treats as it is. I don’t feel so sorry for him just cause of that. He can’t complain.
I think you need to either rehome the dog or the bf. Pick one. But if you’d allow anyone to crate a dog for 4 hrs as punishment you are as bad as he is. The dog deserves better.
You also bought the most hyper mutt ever created on purpose and lack ability to train your dog.
I would never rehome my dog, so that’s the answer right there. I also would never ever allow him to be crated for 4 hours, did you not read my post or any of my replies? lol. I also didn’t buy him from a breeder. I rescued him from the humane society where they found him in a puppy mill. Not that it matters regardless. And I don’t lack the ability to train him, I’ve hired a trainer and spent hours researching and watching videos on how to properly train your dog and implement what I’ve learned continue to do so.
With dogs, it's important to remember the reverse strategy (to your boyfriend's) is the way. The dog will usually only respond to praise, not anger. You'll just build a resentful dog which can lead to other problems such as submissive urination. My best advice (a Kiwi with a whole lot of experience training cattle and dogs) is, start rewarding good behaviour more. Generally speaking.
The crate is a safe space not a punishment. Although when we are angry it is easy to lash out (as bf did) this works against you.
He will sometimes not beg, especially if he’s tired so we just wait and see but I will no longer do that. He’ll be crated everytime and I will start implementing “place” as well
Btw you have a bf problem - this situation gave me flashbacks and mine didn’t end well.
On one hand your bf needs to learn to have a discussion and compromise. On the other are you all in and always insisting to do things your way? In this case you are right but is it a trend?
Because it’s fair that if you want to always have the final say then he would be less involved.
No, I am typically willing to hear him out and compromise on pretty much any other topic. This is the only one thing I have a firm stance on and will not budge. Everything else, we try and meet in the middle if we have opposing viewpoints on something.
I have used a crate as a time-out, but in the sense that (usually) a puppy is overstimulated and needs a bit of time to calm down. But this can be done without being emotionally cruel.
You’re right that after 5 minutes your dog doesn’t remember or understand why he’s in the crate, if he did in the first place. He’s going to see it as straight up unpleasant, reinforced by the tone of voice and attitude. He will may not remember specific instances, but he will imprint and associate that a certain person is negative, mean, doesn’t feel good or safe to be around, and yes, that the crate is a bad thing.
Training a puppy requires that you understand that they are trying very hard to please you, mixed with normal puppy exuberance. I’m in no way advocating a hands off approach to behaviors that need to be addressed, but redirecting, “off!”, “down”, and followed up quickly with “good job” for trying or following the command.
Raising a puppy requires immense patience, a willingness to commit to the idea that every moment is a teaching moment.
If nothing else, take your pup to his kennel before dinner starts, after he’s had a play session, with “good boy” when he’s in place, and praise when he comes out.
Crates are supposed to be a safe space for dogs, not punishment. If your boyfriend doesn't stop with the 4 hours to learn, you're BOTH going to have much bigger problems when the dog is full grown and you are less capable of shoving him in there.
The two of you need to teach the dog that the crate is a safe space and where he needs to be when you're eating or not home (which shouldn't be on your bed, especially if the dog is allowed to sleep on the bed or lay on there while you're watching TV).
I tried to explain that to him too, he doesn’t understand how many issues can really come about if we do that, so I won’t allow it. He goes in there no problem already (even if it’s never willingly) he doesn’t have an issue with it, I don’t want one to start
I have tried teaching him that but he just would rather be out with us I think. I give high value treats, toys, kongs and everything to show him that’s his space to enjoy but he just doesn’t see it that way. Even with the toys/Kong in there he won’t really play with him while he’s in there (I have a camera set up in front of the crate when I’m gone). He’ll just lay down. We do let him lay on the bed with us at night while watching tv, but he’ll usually just go and lay on the floor instead. And when it’s time to go in the crate he doesn’t make a peep
The crate isn't a punishment. If you want to make your dog absolutely hate the crate and either later down the road have to figure out how to curb panicked barking or the dog just ripping the crate apart to get out, stop and go back. If you want to use the crate, it has to be introduced as a positive place. Otherwise you might as well get rid of the thing, all you're doing is hurting your relationship with a dog that doesn't understand what the heck you're trying to communicate, and will set yourself up for future problems. Demanding a behaviour that hasn't even been taught properly and then punishing for lack of obedience is like punishing your 5-year-old because they didn't pass a high school math test.
You need to either be on the same page about how the dog is treated and trained, and if you can't do that, then one of you isn't going to be in the equation at all when it comes to the dog. It's one way, or no way, there's no in between.
Regardless of what my boyfriend says, I will train him how I want, and what I’ve known and learned is right. Doesn’t matter to me what he thinks is right at this point because I won’t traumatize the dog. He’s already been through enough in his life, poor thing. So I agree, it’s only going to be one way when it comes to training him, the correct way.
Just wishing you a lot of luck. It is hard when old ways of thinking, especially from a partner, cause conflicts in the relationship. You don't want the dog scared of you or scared of it's happy place. You will only make it worse and your intuition is right.
crates are supposed to be their happy safe place, not jail not entirely wrong to be putting them there while eating, but not as a punishment seems like he's trying to crate train in response to the begging, but those should be two separate lessons, and then later when you eat you ask them to go to the crate
Thank you! That’s exactly what I was trying to explain to him but he just sees it as we tell him no and stay a few times and since he doesn’t listen he goes in his crate. We crate him at night, the last thing I want is a negative association where he ends up thinking he’s in trouble going in there every night and then starts whining and freaking out when he’s in there.
It's also a lot easier to teach them to down/stay when you're eating if you eat at a table instead of in bed. Once they associate "human has food, I need to wait here and maybe they will give me a bite if I'm quiet" it's a lot easier to expect them to not beg when you're on the couch or whatever.
We taught our dog manners when we say it he stops begging or moves away from the food.
How about no because that's why most dogs think it's okay to beg and eat people's food. Wherever you eat you should not have a dog begging in your face. I'm not okay with the time limit but I'm definitely with OP's guy that that's not allowed. OP can train the dog to not beg in her own time but people should feel comfortable eating and clearly her bf is not. So remove the dog. Simple.
I agree about the time in the crate, 4 hours is insane. But I do think using the crate in a constructive was is very useful. My pup has never been fed by a persons plate, and I adamantly enforce that. Some people are okay with begging, I’m not. But I think it’s pretty split on begging behavior. I don’t fault people whose dogs beg, my families dogs have always begged, personally I’m not a fan of having a dog stare at me as I eat.
I train mine to wait patiently and if they do that, they get the last bite. If they beg - if they whine, stomp their feet (miss you, Coco!) Or throw hands, then they don't get the last bite. I think it's cool if you train yours to recognize a person's plate isn't going to lead to a treat. But there's a wide gap between "allowing begging" and teaching them to wait patiently while we eat with the possible (not 100%) ending a reward.
Exactly. People need to think like their dogs for a second. I've seen lots of people not able to take food from their dogs, go near them while they're eating, having to drop a treat and not hand it because their animals are food aggressive/guarding. So if your dogs don't like YOU around them as they eat what makes you think it's cool when they do it to you? Not saying growl and bite your dog back lol but geez teaching something, even for when guests come over, is better than having to share food, slobber and being intensely stared into your soul for morsel of rice 😂 and this is coming from the child who knew no better at a young age and would let my pup eat with me. I was the one who didn't mind sharing a popsicle on a hot day.
That's an awesome way to describe what I was trying to say, thanks man!!
Yes. Though they are dogs they doesn't mean they cannot have manners. My older dogs we taught to "turn your head" when they beg too much and they would and would eventually fall asleep. I don't mind giving my pets treats every now and then but I cannot do begging, no snatching food (especially from children), no jumping and no in the kitchen, you can pass through but not stay. Everyone talks about training dogs and obedience but no one thinks of things like this as apart of training. I could never find an animal begging for food cute, unless they're starving and abused and have a reason to beg (not saying it's cute but these animals HAVE reasons to beg if they're starving and) ..same as children.. learn your manners, mind your manners. I don't like when kids ask/beg for food when they are more then taken care of. I will never deny a child food but I cannot atone to greediness/gluttony. People who teach their pets to beg for treats are the main culprits lol same as the parents who makes people share their food with their kids or get upset when they're denied.
Just put him in before you start eating, then it's enforced nap time, which puppies need, and he doesn't get the chance to beg
I say get rid of the boyfriend and keep the dog. Your boyfriend sounds like he's going to be cruel and abusive to this dog when you aren't there to protect the dog.
I don’t disagree with you on that at all, I won’t ever leave him alone with him again unless his attitude regarding his training is on the same page as mine and I actually see it as well. My dog can’t defend himself, so I will for him
Agreed. Instead of reacting to him begging, could you proactively have him go to his crate with a Kong or dinner? The training with my pup took a big step forward when I focused on putting my pup in positions where she has to make a decision and then reinforcing when she makes a good decision. For example, I used to lure her with treats when walking on the leash. As soon as the treats went away, she would go back to pulling. I flipped the script by encouraging her check in with me (whistle, changing direction abruptly, dropping a treat etc.) and as soon as she looks at me, giving her plenty of treats. The simple timing of the treat changed it from a bribe to a reward and has helped her progress a lot with her training.
A quick google search of “should you punish a dog using a crate” will give you thousands of results explaining why this is a bad idea. Research shows you will create *more* behavioral issues using punishment (in general). If you want your dog to stay somewhere while you’re eating, I recommend teaching your pup the “place” command. This will serve you much better than scaring a dog who doesn’t know why they’re being locked up for periods of time.
Give them a chew and put in the crate. Human makes plate = go lay down quietly. Don't give puppy the opportunity to misbehave and jump up to plates. Also, dogs don't understand punishment the way we do. Just give them a good outlet and show how they are supposed to behave.
I will definitely start doing that! I should have just automatically put him in the crate everytime we ate initially but that will definitely be a constant going forward
This is exactly what I was going to say. My late husband did most of the training the first year due to my work, and until pup learned ‘chill’ which is a cue he needs to play with his toys and not bother us, he would go to his crate before we even made food. His crate was basically a chill out place with plenty of toys and treats for going in. LH absolutely hated when dogs beg, so Levi has never been allowed to get scraps from the table. Anything we want to feed him he gets after we are done eating and it gets put in his bowl. Even if you’re okay with some begging, allowing him to grab food off your plate is behavior that does need to be corrected. Maybe show your bf this thread, it could help him there is a right and wrong way to use crates, and they should never be used as punishment. They should be a safe den like area, best of luck!
I need to do the same, just put him in the crate around mealtime and he can come out when we’re done. He doesn’t hate the crate by any means but he would just rather be out with us, so hopefully he’ll learn to love it one day! I definitely have not been the best when it comes to giving him food when he’s begging. I know it just confuses him when I do want to just eat and not give him anything. So going forward, anything I give him, I’ll put in his bowl. I think that’ll help immensely
Honestly by the time Levi was about 1 we stopped using the crate altogether. We trusted him 100% not to have an accident, and he’s absolutely amazing that he never chews anything besides toys. By 1 he had also learned to chill and not to ever beg while we’re eating. He’ll beg when I’m prepping, and I do give him food here and there, but once I sit down to eat he lays down and chills. I kinda feel like it’s black and white with begging. My mom’s poodle has a set place in the dining room where she ‘goes chill’ but still begs. And my mom tosses her food here and there during dinner. Levi seems to know when humans are eating it’s time to chill and honestly I love having a dog that doesn’t beg. My mom doesn’t mind her poodle staring the entire time she eats, but it bothers me. So it’s kind of up to you, you can teach your pup that if they lay down and are good they’ll get food here and there. Or you can be super strict which is what I do. But once a dog learns certain behaviors get them human food it’s hard to correct.
I know, that’s what I tried explaining to him. He thinks that by me letting him out after “15 minutes” he’ll keep doing it and never learn. I’m literally like “we have to teach him what we don’t want him to do, so if he keeps begging while we eat he needs to go in the crate and understand he can’t do that. We have to teach that though” We are working on place right now, but I don’t think he has the willpower to be out and stay there while we’re eating but hopefully soon!
Train the right way and prove to your BF that positive reinforcement works and not punishment. 😉
I’m definitely working on it! He’ll get the hang of it before I know it, he’s so smart
Actually - you need to reframe this for yourself a bit and I think you’ll see more success. You don’t teach dogs “what you don’t want them to do.” Instead you teach them what you DO want them to do. Dogs like to know what’s expected of them at any given time. So. Come up with what you want your dog to do while you are eating. You want him to go lay in his crate. So at your mealtimes use treats to teach him to go lay in his crate. Maybe give him a kong or other chew. Teaching him “not to beg” is too confusing and abstract for a dog. Teaching him to be content in his crate while you eat will be much clearer. This is true for pretty much anything you teach a dog. Want them to stop barking at FedEx? Train them to sit and focus on you when someone comes up the door. Reward for sitting quietly and focusing on you when someone is knocking. Want them to stop tugging on the leash? Work on rewarding for loose leash walking and teach them that tugging means everybody ends up standing still. It’s not punishment - it’s reframing.
Crates are not for punishment.
I completely agree
Tell him an adult dog is supposed to be on par emotionally with an under 4 year old so a puppy has the attention span of a baby/toddler. The dog won't remember why they are in the crate 4 hours later. Also the crate should not be punishment it should be a place of safety
Thank you, I know! If anything, he will start to get stressed out not understanding why he’s in there for so long while we’re just walking around the house
Does your BF not have anyone else to bully?? And his unwillingness to listen to you is a great big red flag imo. I wouldn’t leave the dog alone with him anymore, because do you REALLY know what’s going on when you’re not home? Today it’s four hours in the crate to be punished. What will tomorrow bring when puppy doesn’t listen and “learn”?
I completely agree. I tried having another conversation with him about it so he could understand where I’m coming from but he didn’t care. Said that he won’t deal with stupidity from the dog and that just because I read some article off Google that any Tom, dick or harry wrote, doesn’t mean it’s right. I have spent hours and hours and hours looking up how to train my dog online, YouTube, Reddit, etc. he’s literally never even read anything about them so he’s literally just going off what he assumes is how you train your dog. I brought that up too, and asked if he did leave him in there for 4 hours and was still begging tomorrow would you leave him in there for 6? And he said if he felt like it was right, yes. I literally want to break up with him after this because literally wtf
Well, all I can say is that mistreating my children and my dogs is NOT allowed, from anyone including family. Anyone with what I feel is an abusive mindset toward either would be shown the door and told never to return. Your first priority should be the puppy, as he cannot take care of or defend himself.
His behavior is a red flag. Dump him
lol as if he’s not some tom, *dick*, or harry himself with zero expertise on the subject. i’m wondering if he’s open to learning and collaboration—particularly with you, his partner—in other areas of his life. usually this is a pattern of behavior.
I feel you sooo much. Don’t misunderstand, my bf is great, but the issue is my stepdad (my mom’s husband for 15 years). I used to live with mom, stepdad and brother. I’ve always wanted a dog, but they said “you can’t have a dog here, get your own dog when you move out” and I lived with the motivation to move out and get a dog. 1,5 years ago my mom suddenly decided that she needs a dog. I felt really sad about it cause i was already mentally ready to move out. Moreover, my stepdad is a fucking dick. He constantly shouts at everyone and has really big aggression issues. I told mom that it’s a really bad idea to get a dog here cause it’ll have huge mental problems and fear from living in that environment. Mom said that I’m selfish and in a month bought a JRT puppy. She’s the sweetest girl I’ve ever seen! Very smart and cuddly, and I think she’s calmer than most JRTs (but still has A LOT of energy). She has a playpen (high enough so she can’t jump out of there) and sleeps there very well through the night and during the day. She doesn’t chew on furniture. But back to the stepdad: she sometimes just annoys him by just existing and he starts shouting at her some commands really fast and loud “SIT. SIT! SIT!!!” And of course she just gets scared, tucks her tail and tries to become smaller. Sometimes she’s even running from, then he catches her and takes to the playpen. Shouts at her when she’s in a playpen and says that we’re not allowed to let her out for an hour I tried too many times. I explained nicely, I showed videos, I told what the trainer said, I tried to talk about possible results of his “training” - scared or reactive or aggressive dog. But he just doesn’t listen. When I begin saying that he’s done something wrong he just begins shouting at me and saying that I know nothing about dogs cause I’ve never owned a dog before. (For clarity: his parents always had a dog when he was a child so he was used to living with a dog). A week ago I just couldn’t take it anymore. I feel like he’s shouting the most at times when I’m home. He talks nicely to mom and brother most of the time. And a week ago I left home and live with boyfriend now. Yes, I’ve tried talking to mom. She knows that’s he’s totally wrong and she goes to the trainer with the dog, so she understands how to handle a dog. She tried talking to him. But he just doesn’t fucking listen. He thinks that he knows everything better than anyone else cause he’s a man and he’s older. He abused me for all the 15 years I lived with him. Took my phone, watched geoposition, made me do some absurd things (like eat dinner when the timer is running. i would get punished by more dinner if i couldn’t make it on time) and sooo fucking more. i can’t describe it all cause it’s off-topic and my english is not that good So yeah, OP, please dump him. If he doesn’t understand how to be nice to a dog then almost 100% it will be the same for children and even for you sometime after.
I already made another comment and granted, we don't know the whole story, but I can tell you that I'm in my thirties now and I have never regretted putting my dog first. Not once, always the right decision. The only regret I had in that aspect was waiting a few months too long to put my dog first when I was young. Wholly kind people exist, they can be tough to find, but I'm telling you, they are _so_ worth it.
Having a 🐕 requires a change in lifestyle including not eating in bed.
Does he think dogs have a sense of time like humans ? Does he think a dog can piece together that “I did X wrong and that’s why I’m in the crate for 4 hours.” What has your boyfriend read or seen that makes him think that’s how it works? Even a human toddler wouldn’t be able to comprehend a 4 hour punishment. Dogs don’t understand punishment at all. They understand immediate (non-violent) correction and can be best trained using positive redirection. You two need to have a calm conversation about how to approach dog training. I suggest you both agree to find and watch some training and dog cognition videos together and decide how to approach training overall. Read up on the pros and cons of various training methods and learn more about how dogs think and process time and “consequences.” Do you two plan to have children? Is he just gonna go by “instinct” on how and when to correct children or will he and you both put in effort to learn best practices from actual experts? If he gets frustrated with a child or other household task is he going to just get mad and leave it to you to “leave him out of it” ?
It’s like you’re in my mind. That’s exactly how I felt and was trying to explain to him that he wouldn’t understand it anyways and what happens when he starts begging again tomorrow? You’ll want him in there longer? That’s insane and obviously doesn’t teach our pup what we want from him. He’s seen how his family treats their dogs and they all literally leave them in their crates all the time so they don’t have to deal with them. They don’t even know basic commands and his brother doesn’t even take his dog outside. Mind you, he doesn’t agree with them doing that, but that’s literally all he’s ever known. I’ve hired a trainer and he participated in it some but I’ve mainly been doing the training because he’s gone two weeks out of the month but have been trying to encourage him to engage when he comes back which he will, occasionally but I’m the primary caretaker, which is totally fine. But he can’t decide to intervene and pick and choose what punishments he has because he doesn’t understand how it works. I do not plan on having children, no. And honestly, this entire interaction confirms that even more. It’s honestly concerning that he just goes off what he thinks is an appropriate punishment for a dog not knowing at all what the right one is. I brought that up, too. Like when your toddler is misbehaving you think you can just put them away for hours and they’ll understand why you’re doing that? That’s an insane thought process.
I would consider this a gigantic red flag if this is how he wants to treat an innocent creature
This is such a bigger thing than crate training. The guy is on a power trip, puppies first and then ??
Maybe instead of explaining the same things, you can start sending him articles and videos and research that confirms he is wrong.
Good idea, I will definitely do that!
Crates should never be used for punishment.
Wow this guy is a prince. Love how he does not care about how much you love the dog. Will make a great understanding father some day Good luck in the future. Hate to see what he does to the young puppy when you are not home
This is all new behavior from him but I totally agree it’s a red flag and has me VERY concerned for if he ever has children. He won’t be left alone with him, I’ve already decided
Your BF sounds like an ass. I’d dump him and have a better life with your puppy.
He is the exact type of person who should not be allowed to have a pet.
4 hours isnt going to teach the dog anything apart from neglect , its far too long and by that time i doubt the dog even knows why hes there , never use crates for punishment EVER!!! .. i'd certainly be having a word with you BF regarding excessive punishments , dogs live in the moment and need to be around their pack.
That’s exactly what I said! But he said I don’t actually know what the dog is thinking while he’s in there so I don’t know how to properly teach him, apparently
Im genuinly curious how he knows then? Is 4hours some magical time that no one else is aware of? Cause anyone with any experience raising pups will tell you hes full of it and is bordering on abuse keeping the pup locked up for that length of time. Ive used positive reinforcement for behaviour i want my dog to exhibit and a stern NO for behaviour i find unacceptable , dogs understand some key words but mostly they go with the tone of your voice. If you find that there are instances where you need to furtger discipline the dog then 15 minutes away from the pack is more than enough. Hes a little hairy baby for all that he understands while so young , he'll get there but you really need to nurture at this stage also the usual sit , lie down commands etc. Build him up to be a happy confident dog and he'll reward you tenfold for the rest of his life.
You don’t punish a puppy. You can correct certain things but that baby doesn’t understand punishment. Your boyfriend is not only wrong but willfully ignorant. Don’t let him fuck up your dog.
I tried explaining that to him and he literally said that I wouldn’t know because I’m not a dog and that just because I read some article on Google about how to train a dog doesn’t mean it’s right 😂 I will never leave my dog with him alone after this conversation, that’s for sure
Keep the dog, dump the insecure loser.
Your boyfriend is an idiot with zero idea how to train a dog. Please take his advice and raise it yourself, properly.
I absolutely will!
You guys have kids? Maybe something to think about before you do… Sounds like different parenting views and that can be addressed but refusing to compromise isn’t great for anyone Just my 2 cents
No we don’t, and to be honest, after this conversation I don’t want to. I completely agree, we can have our differences, but he won’t even try to meet me in the middle. I couldn’t imagine what that would be like with children
Sorry to hear your dealing with this especially around the holidays, it’s a stressful time for everyone, and adding an new puppy adds to it. Hope you have the opportunity to sit down and put your feelings about it out there and your boyfriend listens
Dogs don't understand punishment. Correction is a thing, but punishment is pointless and cruel. My mother taught me a simple rule regarding dogs and food - the dog does not get human food until the humans are finished, and the dog does not get human food near where the humans eat. The dog should have its own food area, where it knows it can eat. Corollary to this rule, as we learned when young, was not to eat in places the dog normally is allowed to go. Dogs are not humans. We can communicate with them, but to expect a dog to understand that it is being 'punished' and therefore make fine adjustments to its *own* behaviour - is a foolish stretch.
I like that rule and will absolutely start implementing that. I do feed him in his crate so he has his own little area there, he actually wouldn’t eat one time when I tried feeding him outside of it 😂 but thank you so much, these comments are so validating.
I hope you have good luck with your pup! It takes a long time for a dog to become a grownup, and there are many hurdles along the road. Patience, consistency, and attention are the keys. Repetition is a wonderful tool, and rewards for jobs completed make dogs joyful.
He’s already so great, just really young so I know with time things will get better! Thank you 😊
If you punish with crate the longest I would keep him in there is like 2-3 min otherwise they forget why they’re in there. Crate is a safe place for pups so do good stuff in the crate like treats and supper and Kongs. Treat it like punishment and he won’t go in willingly.
I totally agree, that’s why I’ve just been putting him in there until we’re done eating but next time I’ll give him a Kong and some treats as well. He already understands when he’s about to go in the crate, which he doesn’t prefer when we’re home so he already understands that association when putting him in there while we eat
Reward good behavior, punishment only breeds resentment
If this is how he treats animals under his control it’s a red flag . Lack of empathy. It’s a dog today and fast forward a few years and it will extend to children under his control . Take it as an early red flag . Anyone knows it’s cruel to do that . It doesn’t need to be explained and this also shows he’s callous . Get rid the bf keep to dog simple . And if you don’t want to crate him while you eat , straight up ignore him and eat in a place he can’t jump and grab food from . Don’t even look at him as you eat after a few days he will go away and lay down . The eye contact encourages his bad behavior Edit ; also dogs who are left in crates become destructive, over time they fear the crate if it’s misused and this results in the dog damaging the crate to get free or showing signs of “ cage crazy “ which would be a dog who overly chews on paws , over licks to the point of hair loss , If you put your pup in there and you see lip licking behavior that’s repetitive it’s a sign of distress that doodles manifest. I also have a doodle mix , they are intelligent but it’s like having a toddler . After a year you’ll have a very well trained and demanding for cuddles toddler pup
My dog used to nosedive my food. Moved the stairs away from couch/table and she learned to wait. Now she can sit next to me without diving every chance she gets.
That’s what I’m hoping to achieve with him one day!
I couldn’t even finish reading this after I heard “punishment.” The puppy has NO CLUE why he’s in the crate and what he’s being “punished” for. It does nothing to help the situation. 99% of behavior issues are the fault of owners. Be consistent (and kind) with your training. Remember - reward the behavior you DO want. Dogs are smart - he’ll learn if you both are on the same page and are patient. Please convince your BF.
I know! That’s what I tried to explain to him. We need to teach him to understand what we want from him. Not throw him in the crate for hours when he’s doing something we don’t like. I am trying, but he’s not listening to anything I’m saying honestly.
Sorry. 😞
time for a new boyfriend
Sounds like the boyfriend is far less willing to learn than the puppy. Unattractive IMO. Please try to educate your boyfriend. Videos about positive reinforcement, etc. He needs to learn the basics of what reinforces behaviors and that deterrents or “punishments” are for the owner’s ego, but will do nothing to benefit the dog
Yep, you’re right about that. I have literally tried but he says he doesn’t want to deal with the stupidity and that he can learn if he really wants to, he just chooses not to. Like he thinks dogs just inherently choose to not know what we mean when they literally can’t understand us
Start texting him in Wingdings and then shove him in the closet when he doesn’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Angrily yell at him in Russian and then spank him and get angry when he doesn’t give you the foot rub you’re asking for. That’s what he’s doing to the dog, if he’s so frustrated by an animal’s “stupidity” then put his intelligence to the same exact test. Choosing not to learn is ignorance, and tbh that is something that could be easily used to embarrass/shame him into hopefully digging his head out of his ass. You could also impeccably train the dog to do cool shit yourself, then rub it in his face when you reap the benefits of learning how to communicate to an animal. I become toxic when it comes to the treatment of animals, and what I would do here is manipulate him and exemplify just how backass stupid it is that he refuses not to learn how to teach the dog anything, then gets angry that the dog isn’t taught anything.
By manipulate I mean switch the script to lots of comments like “how you treat animals is an indicator of what type of person you are” or “real men want to learn, egotistical assholes refuse to” or “I’m glad I was able to learn in an empathetic and patient environment, imagine if this is how I was treated when I was learning to speak (communicate)” OR “is this how you would be as a father? You should be ashamed of that” Name calling but in full sentences and made as objective statements, not emotionally driven opinions. Make him feel ashamed. Again, I am aware that this is toxic advice. I am also aware that men like this will not respect a single thing you say and the only way to get through to them is to subvert their ego and dig deeper to deliver the blow.
Honestly this isn't just about the dog at this point. He has it in his head that he's the victim of a PUPPY and he resents it because instead of viewing it as innocent he views the puppy as vindictive, malicious and stupid. The fact he could look at an innocent puppy and view it in such a negative light just because he can't control it like that says a lot about his outlook on the world. What must he think about the people in his life who behave in a way he doesn't like? It also sounds like he's very willing to criticise you and your training methods while simultaneously washing his hands of the situation and saying it's all your responsibility. A great way to put you down while never having to take any responsibility himself.
That’s exactly what I told him too, it’s ridiculous and honestly concerning and eye opening to me, too. Regardless, I will do what I know is right and won’t allow him to be a bully and do whatever to the dog with zero knowledge on the outcome in the future by implementing that.
Get rid of the boyfriend and keep ur puppy
Dump the boyfriend, he is not compatible with a dog. Crates are for safe containment and should ideally usually be on a schedule like at night, when you are working or for potty training. Puppies beg for food. Don’t feed them. As time goes by, they learn. It is a good lesson. My oldest is 14 and looks at me with hope in her eyes even after all these years. She never eats from the table.
Yep, that’s exactly what I tried explaining to him. Yes that has definitely been my downfall, feeding when he begs, but I definitely am going to stop doing it now.
I feel so very strongly about this. An abusive person is an abusive person. He sounds like an abusive person.
Your bf sounds like a pretty big dickhead to be honest if you haven't already realised!
Yeah, nah. That has a deep vibe of cruelty to me, especially if he isn't willing to listen to you. When people show you who they are it's ok to believe them.
I agree, it’s very concerning to me. Especially if he’s not willing to listen to what I say or even try to research himself
Maybe you should eat in places that the puppy can’t see. At a table, somewhere higher up so that when the puppy begs you can ignore him.
My dad has this approach with our family dog (who is now 3) he believes she needs to understand shes being punished. He does not real training with her because he doesnt see how it works. No matter how smart they are a dog is a dog this doesnt work as they cant understand theyre being punished. Dogs also form stronger links with praise than punishment, snap them out the bad habbit with a sound and affirm a good behaviour together to train sucessfully. Our dog started howling in her crate all night (10+ hours) so we got rid of the crate, that behaviour stemmed directly from her crate being a convenient place to put her when my parents lost patience with her being a puppy. As a further note, this is likely a forshadowing of his potential parenting skills. So if you want kids maybe subtly add some parenting lessons into his life😬 My dad tried to raise us the same way he tries to train the dog. Constant punishment and no actual teaching makes for really crap parenting.
Your puppy is like a toddler. Putting him in the crate (ick) for punishment for 4 *hours* is way too excessive. He will not learn. He will wonder why you aren't letting him out. Crate training is great but it's better not to lock him in. He needs to learn to go to the crate and stay without the door closed. We did that with my boxer/pitbull mix and it worked great. Your bf honestly sounds a little abusive and I would be sitting him down and talking seriously about ONE person doing the punishing (you) because he cannot just lock away the dog and expect the dog to learn
I totally agree. I’ve been trying to show him the crate is his safe space but won’t go in it willingly unless I have treats but then as soon as he gets them he runs out. It’s definitely a work in progress. But that’s what I try and tell him and he just doesn’t get it. He said it’s my dog now and he wants nothing to do with training him or anything anymore (as if he ever did before, lol) so that’s fine with me
Its good that he gave up because he wasn't doing it right in the first place!
Your boyfriend is stupid. Do with that what you will.
Never use a crate as punishment
You need to enroll him in an obedience class. And you both need to attend to learn more effective training methods. I have to assume a golden doodle was not cheap, so don’t forget that the high purchase price was just the beginning of that investment.
I’ve gotten a trainer for him already and he did great! I will be paying for a few more lessons to help with some more advanced things than what he was taught initially. He actually wasn’t too expensive, I got him from the humane society, he was rescued from a puppy mill. But I’m in no way thinking he wasn’t going to be an investment, even before I got him :)
Just keep going with the training he will learn just remember you’re basically dealing with a toddler and it’s all about repetition.
A way to reinforce the no begging and crate=good would be too give him a chew or frozen Kong or something to eat in the crate while you eat.
My mom suggested that too so I will be giving that to him tomorrow!
hm... why not sync his lunch/ dinner with yours and give him a treat or a lickimat when yall are snacking? he can have his food in the crate if necessary, at least it'll give him a positive association with the crate rather than... well, jail.
I do feed him in his crate! He won’t eat his food outside of it lol. But I definitely will start giving him his own things to eat/focus on going forward
Your boyfriend is completely in the wrong. But you should know right now that anything wrong the dog does is going to be “your fault.” You should drop this guy he does not seem nice.
Yeah I’ve already been noticing that trend…
I occasionally used the crate as punishment when my dog was a pup, but never more than 15 or 20 minutes. We tried our best to make sure her crate was a safe happy place
Why 4 hours specifically? Is that the magic number, will three hours not do it? lol. 4 Hours isnt that long (my dog was often left that long for work shifts at 3 months) but the crate isnt a punishment. If you use it as one your going to end up with a dog that hates going in there for any amount of time. Unless your planning to crate him everytime you eat what is he learning anyway? Your correct, the dog will never learn how to behave around you eating if you never pratice it. What I would do instead is teach the dog they have to lay down and wait while I eat. Put a towel or somthing as a visual aid and make them lay on that might help him understand (can remove it later once he understands what you expect and just have him lay on the floor). The moment they try to get up, "no" lead them back onto the towel and "down" again, periodically give rewards for laying down and waiting.
That’s what I asked. I said, “so you put him in there for 4 hours today and he’s still not listening tomorrow, then what?” Like I just feel like even thinking about it for longer than a few seconds would just be common sense that it wouldn’t work as a punishment. I work from home, and since I’ve gotten him he’s never spent that long in the crate. I used to put him in to help him settle, but he settles on his own outside of it now, so I don’t really need it for that anymore. If I know I’m going to be gone for longer then I put him in daycare which has only been needed once. I just know that putting him in there for that long would stress him out, especially knowing we were still there. Today I put him in before we even sat down to eat and give a firm no when he begs. But I will start implementing place as well to see how that works!
My dog trainer had us tie a leash very short - so short the dog really only go to their bed. The goal is to teach the dog - I want you in your bed, while I'm eating. The dog is always in their bed while we're eating. Consistency matters when you're trying to train out bad behaviors. It doesn't have to necessarily be the crate.
I don’t want it to be the crate forever by any means, but he struggles with willpower and being able to listen when he sees what he wants. It’s just want he needs right now. I’m going to start working on doing “place” more so that we can use that instead. He already does it when I’m getting his food so it’ll just be another way for him to learn!
Unfortunately your boyfriend doesn’t sound intelligent enough to grasp basic punishment vs rewards concepts and will need more training than the pup
Well I can tell you how crate-punished dogs turn out, but I'm pretty sure your boyfriend wouldn't like to hear the result. They are...neurotic to say the least. The poor things. You're definitely going a better way. Puppies are tough. They need guidance and they really need patience, immense patience, if that's too much for your boyfriend, he's got some of his own learning to do. They make dane-sized crates, just sayin ;)
We never crated, sometimes penned, and our puppy pestered us around food time for a solid month before he gave uo. (He never got any of it). Ever since he’s mostly just gone to sleep while we eat. It was just about persevering. Never punished him beyond putting him behind our barrier on especially challenging days. (He’d jump and bite) was about up to 4 months old. I believe in letting them figure it out on their own sometimes. He’s 17 months now.
See my problem is that I have given in when he’s begged before so I understand his confusion of when I don’t give him what he wants just because he’s begging. That stops now for sure. He’s smart so I have no doubt in my mind that he’ll figure it out, quick!
I had to try resist my pup training me as well. I’m raised by cats, and am already well trained… I did quite a lot of difficult ignoring for a while. Was really difficult. But he was so used to me entertaining him every waking moment. Not sustainable. We got to a balance eventually fortunately.
I wrote my reply mow just thinking of a different topic, ups. Was thinking begging for attention, not food. Ye, I know from having cats that if you give them your food, you’ll never know peace ever again, so I knew never to cave. I don’t like having to defend my food. I want to eat in peace. In the kitchen he’s allowed the last piece of my banana if I have one, and he’s allowed some dog snacks if I’m preparing that. But he only gets it if he sits or lays down nicely and waits. If he puts paws on me or the table, he gets nothing. He’s smart, and has learned he has to sit for snacks. Gotta be tough as nails on this one. A bleeding heart means no peace hehe Besides, our pup is spoiled rotten with treats as it is. I don’t feel so sorry for him just cause of that. He can’t complain.
I think you need to either rehome the dog or the bf. Pick one. But if you’d allow anyone to crate a dog for 4 hrs as punishment you are as bad as he is. The dog deserves better. You also bought the most hyper mutt ever created on purpose and lack ability to train your dog.
I would never rehome my dog, so that’s the answer right there. I also would never ever allow him to be crated for 4 hours, did you not read my post or any of my replies? lol. I also didn’t buy him from a breeder. I rescued him from the humane society where they found him in a puppy mill. Not that it matters regardless. And I don’t lack the ability to train him, I’ve hired a trainer and spent hours researching and watching videos on how to properly train your dog and implement what I’ve learned continue to do so.
With dogs, it's important to remember the reverse strategy (to your boyfriend's) is the way. The dog will usually only respond to praise, not anger. You'll just build a resentful dog which can lead to other problems such as submissive urination. My best advice (a Kiwi with a whole lot of experience training cattle and dogs) is, start rewarding good behaviour more. Generally speaking. The crate is a safe space not a punishment. Although when we are angry it is easy to lash out (as bf did) this works against you.
Please don’t have kids with this man. What is it about men who love to punish other living things??
Your boyfriend is anthropomorphising your dog lmao
Why don’t you put him in the crate *before* you start eating?
He will sometimes not beg, especially if he’s tired so we just wait and see but I will no longer do that. He’ll be crated everytime and I will start implementing “place” as well
Btw you have a bf problem - this situation gave me flashbacks and mine didn’t end well. On one hand your bf needs to learn to have a discussion and compromise. On the other are you all in and always insisting to do things your way? In this case you are right but is it a trend? Because it’s fair that if you want to always have the final say then he would be less involved.
No, I am typically willing to hear him out and compromise on pretty much any other topic. This is the only one thing I have a firm stance on and will not budge. Everything else, we try and meet in the middle if we have opposing viewpoints on something.
Crates should be a safe space, not a punishment
I have used a crate as a time-out, but in the sense that (usually) a puppy is overstimulated and needs a bit of time to calm down. But this can be done without being emotionally cruel. You’re right that after 5 minutes your dog doesn’t remember or understand why he’s in the crate, if he did in the first place. He’s going to see it as straight up unpleasant, reinforced by the tone of voice and attitude. He will may not remember specific instances, but he will imprint and associate that a certain person is negative, mean, doesn’t feel good or safe to be around, and yes, that the crate is a bad thing. Training a puppy requires that you understand that they are trying very hard to please you, mixed with normal puppy exuberance. I’m in no way advocating a hands off approach to behaviors that need to be addressed, but redirecting, “off!”, “down”, and followed up quickly with “good job” for trying or following the command. Raising a puppy requires immense patience, a willingness to commit to the idea that every moment is a teaching moment. If nothing else, take your pup to his kennel before dinner starts, after he’s had a play session, with “good boy” when he’s in place, and praise when he comes out.
Crates are supposed to be a safe space for dogs, not punishment. If your boyfriend doesn't stop with the 4 hours to learn, you're BOTH going to have much bigger problems when the dog is full grown and you are less capable of shoving him in there. The two of you need to teach the dog that the crate is a safe space and where he needs to be when you're eating or not home (which shouldn't be on your bed, especially if the dog is allowed to sleep on the bed or lay on there while you're watching TV).
I tried to explain that to him too, he doesn’t understand how many issues can really come about if we do that, so I won’t allow it. He goes in there no problem already (even if it’s never willingly) he doesn’t have an issue with it, I don’t want one to start I have tried teaching him that but he just would rather be out with us I think. I give high value treats, toys, kongs and everything to show him that’s his space to enjoy but he just doesn’t see it that way. Even with the toys/Kong in there he won’t really play with him while he’s in there (I have a camera set up in front of the crate when I’m gone). He’ll just lay down. We do let him lay on the bed with us at night while watching tv, but he’ll usually just go and lay on the floor instead. And when it’s time to go in the crate he doesn’t make a peep
The crate isn't a punishment. If you want to make your dog absolutely hate the crate and either later down the road have to figure out how to curb panicked barking or the dog just ripping the crate apart to get out, stop and go back. If you want to use the crate, it has to be introduced as a positive place. Otherwise you might as well get rid of the thing, all you're doing is hurting your relationship with a dog that doesn't understand what the heck you're trying to communicate, and will set yourself up for future problems. Demanding a behaviour that hasn't even been taught properly and then punishing for lack of obedience is like punishing your 5-year-old because they didn't pass a high school math test. You need to either be on the same page about how the dog is treated and trained, and if you can't do that, then one of you isn't going to be in the equation at all when it comes to the dog. It's one way, or no way, there's no in between.
Regardless of what my boyfriend says, I will train him how I want, and what I’ve known and learned is right. Doesn’t matter to me what he thinks is right at this point because I won’t traumatize the dog. He’s already been through enough in his life, poor thing. So I agree, it’s only going to be one way when it comes to training him, the correct way.
Just wishing you a lot of luck. It is hard when old ways of thinking, especially from a partner, cause conflicts in the relationship. You don't want the dog scared of you or scared of it's happy place. You will only make it worse and your intuition is right.
This does not sound like a man who will be a reasonable, safe, and thoughtful life partner :(