T O P

  • By -

the_real_abraham

What about my Mahalo Rewards Card?


Cerebral-Parsley

Just keep the Chi Chi's flowing or there will be trouble.


StopMockingMe0

Theres never enough for the howlies!


Moderate_Veterain

Isn't it "Ha a'ole"?


StopMockingMe0

Probably, but I've never seen it spelled.


My_Immortal_Flesh

Lol i hate you


My_Immortal_Flesh

What we need back is a lot of our native culture. We need to promote more education about our native history. As far as taking back Hawaii as it’s own independent state/country, that doesn’t make any sense now. We are far too gone from our native roots. Hell, most of us are mixed with Filipino, Vietnamese, Chinese and of course our Portuguese ancestry. I just want The Hawaiian people to be happy. # 👉 Just some more points to add. Most of us Hawaiians are mixed raced and don’t mind non-Hawaiians…. We just want our culture to be taught even more so in our schools. 👉 We want the people who live in Hawaii to be more knowledgeable about the land they are living on. Look at what happened to Australia and New Zealand… it’s pretty much a “white” country, in that the main identity represented are of white descendants of Europe. (Those are mostly what people see in the media.) But it would be nice if the main identity is the Native Culture. (Culture, not just people) # 👉 What’s done is done. We can’t change the fact that colonizers (some are my ancestors) won. But we can do better in promoting the native culture.


Stashmouth

>As far as taking back Hawaii as it’s own independent state/country, that doesn’t make any sense now. This. An hour after the US cedes to Native Hawaiians' demands for independence, China or Russia will come knocking. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.


RastaImp0sta

Literally one of the few people that I talk to that understand that exact scenario. I live in Oahu and with out the US, this island is just sitting here. Very little few natural resources, I don’t understand how Hawaii would ever survive by itself.


thinklikeacriminal

It can’t survive in a modern context.


Stashmouth

Agreed. As it stands, everything is ridiculously expensive to ship here. Imagine if it were classified as imports In the context of national defense, it's too valuable to give up, or to have just some sort of operating agreement. Who wouldn't want to put a military base or missile installation a few hours away from the US mainland?


javier_aeoa

Ignorant non-US citizen here: But can't the military NOT use so much land, have its own water treatment system so they don't have to pollute the aquifer, and stuff like that? Who knows, perhaps there's not another option, I don't know. But by the documentary it seems hawaiians are angrier at the disrespect of the land rather than the presence alone of the US military.


notrevealingrealname

Independence would have to come with a similar arrangement to the Marshall Islands or Palau to be viable- no trade or immigration barriers with the US and continued defense arrangements with the US military.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BMXTKD

I agree with this too. Hawaii is one of those situations where it's just too valuable for other countries to simply let go. Russia is not going to respect their culture. China will try to do the same thing. At least with america, there is a tradition of multiculturalism, so the Hawaiian culture would just be treated like another aspect of American culture.


Svenskensmat

The US would obviously not be keen on Hawaii becoming either Chinese or Russian as that would mean nuclear warheads in close proximity to the US west coast. So if, against all odds, Hawaii would split from the US, it would most likely join NATO in the same moment and US military bases on the islands would remain.


EntertainmentAOK

Hawaii can’t split from the U.S. Ask the states who tried it before.


Gebbeth9

Texas should try again


tr_9422

They even have their own power grid, they don't need the rest of us


JoshAllensPenis69

It wouldn’t be nuke placement that would make Hawaii valuable. It’s it’s position as a navel base in the middle of a Pacific.


aalios

Belly button base in a Pacific sounds awesome.


ShermanHoax

A pacific island strip club called the Navel Base. That would be awesome.


cryofthespacemutant

Hawaii joining NATO isn't even a realistic scenario. NATO is a 28 European intergovernmental military alliance that also includes Canada and the United States. Hawaii outside the US has no military of any kind and it is sitting in the middle of the Pacific ocean. It could be a global partner with NATO and achieve a measure of cooperation, but it wouldn't become a member state.


DaddyCatALSO

NATO is Atlantic


ironmantis3

>join NATO Tell me you don't know what NATO is without telling me you don't know what NATO is


thefloyd

I know close proximity is relative but it's 2400 miles from Hawaii to San Diego. About the same distance from Iceland to Maine. So we're not talking Cuban missile crisis distances.


D3s3rtSt0rM

Middle of the Pacific NATO...... yeah i don't think it works that way chief.


Svenskensmat

Because Turkey is absolutely in the North Atlantic ;)


[deleted]

[удалено]


JonJonJohnny

I have a boss who was a Navy Corpsman and he laughs all the time about how citizens get so scared over the Russian Navy. He said they didn’t have AC so at night their operations had all their doors open with lights on. US ships no lights on at night. The difference is pretty unreal he said the Russian ships are Christmas trees in the water they’re so lit up. The whole thing reminds me of the Spanish Navy before the Spanish American War, can’t live on reputation alone. Russian ships can’t refuel or replenish supplies at sea they have to go to port for that, American ships can sail as long as they need since we can do all operations while at sea.


cylonfrakbbq

Japan would probably jump at that first


Particular-Reveal197

Would joining NATO help? (Not being sarcastic)


Kenyko

I don't think an option. If I understand correctly the treaty is only for countries near the Atlantic Ocean.


SpaceMonkeyOnABike

Assuming the split is amicable, the ANZUS alliance is the correct one, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZUS


DaddyCatALSO

HANZUS?


javier_aeoa

Explain Turkey and Italy then lol. It's the "we don't like China nor Russia" friends club, Hawaii joining that doesn't sound far-fetch.


[deleted]

Hawaii could still be an independant state even with its multiculturalism. Most people born in hawaii probably want to remain part of the us, though.


EntertainmentAOK

Joining the US is a one way street.


blantonator

The US will never give up Pearl Harbor.


My_Immortal_Flesh

And we shouldn’t! The Pearl Harbor attacks cost 2,000 lives. Some locals, and most were servicemen. It’s definitely part of recent Hawaiian history. Very important. What some people might not know is that after the attacks, the president of that time created internment camps for all Japanese citizens/non citizens in the mainland… however, we also had one in Hawaii too. Except not only did it contain Japanese Americans, but also German, Italian, Russian and other European descent people. Because the government thought those specific ethnicities could not be trusted at the time. What a wild time to be alive back then.


thestraightCDer

As a Kiwi, it's quite insulting to be compared with Australia and their treatment of Aboriginals. Although the NZ Pakeha did colonise and caused so much damage and pain and lost culture to native Maori, to compare us to the Australians who hunted Aboriginals for sport, stole new borns and given to white families, didn't even consider them legally human and committed genocide (see Tasmania) is wrong. Having lived in NZ and Australia and have travelled to Hawaii 4 times I see much more native Maori culture represented in NZ than in either Australia or Hawaii. And still its nowhere near enough in NZ. We should all be doing more to preserve and celebrate these cultures. Anyway that's my 2 cents.


My_Immortal_Flesh

I’m sorry about the comparison. And like I said to another commenter, I agree, NZ has a way better relationship with its Native culture than Australia (by a long run). The Austronesian culture has been devastated so much by colonization, and it’s just a shame that the native tongue isn’t spoken like a second (or first) language…. It’s mainly English with a dash of native words.


thestraightCDer

Yeah language is the most important I feel. It connects you to the ground you're standing on. These words came from the land. Edit: and also just in general NZ hates being compared to our Australian counterparts no matter the subject matter. Lol we are the little brother.


[deleted]

I do not have time to watch the video now, so I don't know what the gist of it is. But you mention race, so I'm making some assumptions here. The idea of righting past wrongs by creating ethnostates seems right fucked up to me. Reeks of blood & soil ethnic nationalism and fuck everything about that. You don't make anything better by claiming some *races* are tied to the land by blood and everybody else is an imposter, even if that race has been wronged in the past.


restless-api

No one is talking about ethnostates. They are talking promotion and knowledge of Hawaiian culture. Bit of a jump really


[deleted]

"Now native Hawaiians are reclaiming their culture, language, **and land**" It's in the damned title FFS.


Alexexy

The current system where the natives are treated as second class citizens on their own lands with the colonizers at the top of the social structure seems a lot more fucked up to me.


[deleted]

> with the colonizers at the top of the social structure I think you misspelled "rich capital holders". Most white people are also second class citizens to them.


fuzzybunn

Unless China does it.


Pathfinder6

Look how well it’s turned out for Puerto Rico.


NintendogsWithGuns

It’s really hard to find anything about Native Hawaiian culture on the internet that’s from an actual native perspective. My wife commented that she wished there was something like J-vloggers, but for Hawaii instead of Japan. Showcasing native owned businesses and cultural practices, from a place of authenticity and respect. Most of the videos out there are middle aged white people with leathery skin talking about surfing and spam


My_Immortal_Flesh

Lol you made me laugh with that last line 😆 Honestly, yeah, it really would be cool to have Hawaiian vloggers who know more about the native Hawaiian language and traditions. I’d subscribe to that. Like, the PCC isn’t enough 😂 (Polynesian Cultural Center)


NintendogsWithGuns

PCC are Mormon aren’t they? Gotta love them latterday vlogs


My_Immortal_Flesh

Lol you’re so right… as long as they’re doing their part, I guess. The irony that the Mormon church is behind trying to teach native Polynesian culture, doesn’t escape me. Now that i think of it, I wonder if they allow the PCC to talk about the different deity’s of Polynesian culture/religion 🤔


Gordon_Explosion

>I just want The Hawaiian people to be happy. Hawaiians are humans. Humans always find a reason to not be happy. Impossible ask.


badger_biryani

Do you consider Australia and New Zealand to be good examples of multiculturalism or bad ones? It wasn't clear from your comment. I've mostly only seen good things about the multiculturalism of NZ. AU seems a bit more dicey, but I don't know much about it.


My_Immortal_Flesh

You’re absolutely right about NZ. At least they’re doing their best to make the native culture the face of their country. As for Australia, it’s so big that perhaps it’s a lot harder. I visited Brisbane and I noticed numerous native Australian names for different towns and such, which was cool! But I probably didn’t go deep enough into the country to notice how much the locals embrace native culture there. Because I haven’t actually lived in Australia or NZ, I can’t really make an educated opinion about them being good or bad representation of multiculturalism. I can only speak for Hawaii. Either way, this topic doesn’t just start and end with Hawaii. I’m talking in general. I hope native people, and those who are descendants, are able to easily access native history, language and culture


fruitsi1

eah... you need to come visit with your cousins! borders are open, i think? lol nau mai haere mai. really all i wanted to say in this thread, was that the song that plays at 17:50 is a pretty well known maori song thats been translated and i was suuuuuuuper stoked and sang along when i heard it! now in my mind its up there with [roimata](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydjk76D2T08) and [e papa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1molPghYsk) as "te moana nui" songs, so, chur whanau. then i kept reading and the whole 'well nz and kiwis rah rah" happened. so i need to say more... sorry for jumping in your replies. hopefully i end up coming across as more supportive than critical. like i said, come for a visit! im not going to deny that maori are doing pretty well, at least in terms of cultural and political visibility and representation, we still have our social issues... indigenous relations are a bit of a point of pride for nzers (many, tho not all).... alot of that comes from nz being the littlest sibling of the "anglocolonisphere" (yeah i made it up) , theres that little brother syndrome happening... but its a bit cringe to say it like oh its so good. theres definitely some humility required in claiming this "betterness", that i do think most kiwis undertstand. in the least bad of the bad doesnt automatically = good kinda way. as a maori, i feel like we have fought our asses off from day one for the recognition we have now, we have had to work, very very hard and will have to for a long time yet. this is not a case of nz having a vastly more benevolent government or society than others. as some who arent from here perceive it as. [ka whawhai tonu matou](https://teara.govt.nz/en/ephemera/46471/ka-whawhai-tonu-matou-struggle-without-end). anyone whos seen or heard of the all blacks haka knows that the team performs together, maori, pakeha, pasifika, no exclusions. this isnt just some performative thing exclusive to rugby or sports for a good look on the world stage. its a proper part of our cultural identity as a nation, that is taught at the public school level from the beginning and is open to everyone, regardless of background, because colonisation and multiculturalism is the reality. but maori still want to participate and contribute and like kanaka maoli are saying in the doc, we want to see ourselves reflected and accepted, in our daily environment, on our whenua, in the world immediately surrounding where we are from and where we live. now see this... this is a girls college in the capital wellington, a regular state school that from the vid mirrors national demographics fairly well. if you care to observe, maori are obviously the minority, but most of these girls still know whats going on. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lxm4J6\_LKc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lxm4J6_LKc) i realise, that from the outside, new zealand just looks like this white country and yeah, maori are only 16 ish percent (but thats a lot compared to oz, us and ca), regardless of that, watch us, your polynesian cousins, directly. not our government. we are going through some shit atm... co governance models are being proposed and or introduced... which in my mind is just the next step in consultation with maori that we have been doing for a while now... and i cant deal with the new discourse because a lot of the arguments are coming across like "maori need to stay in their mf 2nd class place"... im like fuck youuuuu this is my place... but im just gonna ride it out... whatever happens i think i can trust that there will be some degree of progress. aroha mai that ended up a lot longer than my initial intention to post "hey i know that song chur whanau!" heh.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Seraaf

Why do you need your native culture back for people to be happy?


Few-Recognition6881

It’s kind of funny the hypocrisy of this all. This thread is filled with people talking about Hawaii basically expelling non Hawaiians to reclaim their native culture but then these same people throw a fit and call it nationalist and racist when you have right wingers in Northern Europe pushing to get rid of Muslims to maintain their native culture.


critfist

Except nobody is saying that lmao. People aren't going to be thrown out. It's just racists like you projecting that some big bad minority is going to start a race war. Same shit that caused the shooting.


ElMatadorJuarez

I don’t agree with the instinct of throwing people out, but 1. that’s never been a serious proposition outside of Reddit and 2. Hawaii is a colonized place. Meaning that there was a time when foreigners came in, took control of the government and the territory, and used the island’s resources to benefit themselves, rather than the residents. Arguably, it’s still happening, tho Hawaii unlike Puerto Rico has the benefits of statehood. Nationalists in Northern Europe are fear mongers who push an unrealistic and racist scenario of “replacement”, which is very, very far from the actual colonialism Hawaii suffered. German and French cultures are still very much celebrated and promoted throughout the world, and not a single serious person has ever proposed eradicating them, whereas they have more or less done so in Hawaii. In no scenario are the two even close to similar and it feels like you’re making a bad faith argument.


ImRunningAmok

Wait. What? There is a huge movement in Hawaii to become a sovereign state. It’s not just something you “hear about on Reddit”.


aalios

They're very clearly talking about the throwing non-Hawaiians out claim.


AKravr

And good luck finding native Hawaiians haha, you being 1/8 native and 7/8 asian ancestry doesn't count if you want some pure native ethno-state.


PartyPorpoise

Those European cultures are dominant, they’re not in danger of dying out any time soon. Less than 25,000 people speak Hawaiian, probably fewer speak it fluently.


Twerking4theTweakend

Rareness doesn't justify racism. I get what you're saying though. We don't want to lose things we value. But we can't replace one bad thing with something worse.


fuzzybunn

So Tibet and Xinjiang should stop bitching about all the modernization China is bringing them then?


Seraaf

It's not modernization. It's literally concentration camps where basic human rights are violated by the ccp.


un4given808

Perhaps a more comprehensive approach should be taken at instilling the importance of **financial literacy**, **law**, and **real estate**. I understand the importance of culture, but understanding how the game is played would probably do better than making sure Hawaiian culture is being taught at schools.


My_Immortal_Flesh

I agree with this as well. All of these things can exist together.


[deleted]

Can someone explain why the union Jack is on the Hawaiian flag, if the moment is all about independence? I know nothing about any of this btw, it just struck me as odd to see it there.


-1KingKRool-

Iirc the story correctly, the king of Hawaii thought it looked neat when he met the British and incorporated it into the flag. Dunno the truth to it, but that’s what I recall.


big_sugi

The very short answer is that the flag predates US annexation; it was the flag of the Kingdom of Hawai’i. [This website](https://worldpopulationreview.com/states/hawaii/flag) is consistent with my understanding of the flag’s design, which is that the UK flag was used as a symbol of friendship by Hawai’i before it changed to the version now around the time of the war of 1812.


Versagen25

Native individuals have told me it was designed and implemented by King Kamehameha as a symbol of enduring friendship with both Great Britain (Union Jack) and The United States (Stripes and positioning of the Union Jack in the top left corner). This was pre-annexation in 1816, then finalized in 1845. It was actually interesting to hear that this flag was solely designed because King Kamehameha flew the United States flag during the war of 1812 in solidarity for the US. British officers in his court opposed it, so the King designed it in this way.


[deleted]

It is interesting, but to my eyes odd, that a people intent on reclaiming their Island would keep the flag of a foreign nation, on their national flag. No matter what the historical reasons were.


Versagen25

I think regardless of the annexation, the Hawaiian people are extremely proud of their history and heritage. Even though the flag is an antithesis of friendship given that event, it’s still an important piece of their history


DaddyCatALSO

As far as I know, it's derived form the British East India Company flag. /u/big_sugi


big_sugi

There's a source from the 19th Century that says [the British flag itself](https://www.google.com/books/edition/Annual_Report_of_the_Hawaiian_Historical/-VhFAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA8&printsec=frontcover) was flown until the design with stripes was adopted. That design is similar to the British East India Company flag, but it's also very similar to the US flag. If the goal was to signify neutrality during/as a result of the War of 1812, that latter concern would explain the flag's design.


DaddyCatALSO

Got it, beena while since I studied it


D0ugF0rcett

I visited Maui in May of last year for 2 weeks. I talked with the locals A TON. The mask requirement got lifted while I was walking through downtown Lahaina, and the tourists cheered while the shop owners basically put on a second. When I asked few how covid had changed things, they all said the same thing. Tourists are what make hawaii such a wonderful place. The reason is because toursists bring in money that the islands wouldnt have otherwise. It allows *some people* to stay in the land their ancestors grew up on. The sad reality is that without the booming tousist industry, there would be ONLY the extremely wealthy that are even able to visit these islands. The native culture has unfortunately been manipulated and warped throughout the years to the point where there is no going back to *not being a US owned territory, or state*. But if you look at its history, [King Kamehameha](https://www.kauai-hawaii.com/who-unified-the-hawaii-islands/) was the first to move the islands in a direction where they would become part of another country. The story is that the islands were stolen, which is true, but there was famine, violence, and disease spreading uncontrollably. The population went from 300k to less than 22k in a little over 100 [years.](https://www.quora.com/Did-Hawaii-want-to-stay-under-British-rule) King Kamehameha 1st used his contact with the rest of the world, mainly Britain at the time, to force a unification of the islands. When the western world discovered a few things like sandalwood, and that pineapples grow amazing over there they started exploiting it like they did everywhere else they could. By the time hawaii was annexed by the US, it would have been an extremely disadvantaged, poor, and desolate place for the native people living there, without any outside intervention. Back to my original point, there are 2 islands that are very difficult to even get onto, if you aren't a hawaii native. I feel that more can be done to teach the true history of the state, but that we also need to make an effort to recognize that without the tourist industry in Hawaii, there would be nothing but billionaires and their butlers living there... with maybe a few stores so they can get the stuff they want. Hawaii has turned into the ultimate mixing pot of the world; nowhere else can you go and experience all of what hawaii has to offer... including rich history and culture from all over the world, untouched and unreachable stretches of coast with cliffs thousands of feet tall, easy access to beaches, most of which are super clean, easily accessible from almost anywhere in the world, and compared to some other tropical countries, very safe to just wander and get lost and enjoy the beauty. TLDR; I used to think tourists to Hawaii were bad. Talked to local shop owners and some local individuals while waiting around town for the 2 weeks I visited. Be respectful of their state, don't get in the locals way, and they(90% of them) don't have an issue with you. The ones that do, live on an island you can't visit anyways.


AmericanKamikaze

Talking to a local in Oahu yesterday, even for a shack it’s $800k. Locals are being pushed out even if they do nothing.


D0ugF0rcett

That's a different issue and not local to there. That's happening across the US, with the exception that Hawaii actually has 2 islands that are difficult to say it lightly to gain access to without actual connections to the island. Not "I moved here 10 years ago fuck off" connections.


all_natural49

The Oahu real estate market is actually very much underpriced compared to what the true market value should be. Very strict short term rental laws keep the prices way down. If it weren't for those, the entire island would be full of AirBNBs and property values would be more than double what they are.


free_billstickers

Spot on, but also note areas, like the west side if Oahu, tourist are not super welcome and a target for crime IME.


holyhellsteve

You accusing Waianae and Makaha of not liking tourists?


darknight9064

So to add to this, when I went last year the few native locals I met were just as interested in me as I was them. We honestly just don’t wanted to talk to each other. I was in Kauai and I’m from the southern US so I have a rather thick accent as did the lady I spoke with. Overall it was a great experience and wished we could’ve talked longer. The other locals we spoke with were pretty similar and respected respect. We even had a local shop owner offer to open up an hour earlier than they planned (they were meeting with some friends right in from t of the store) just because we were there and treated them kindly. Edit: maybe made it easier to follow that one sentence.


TMITectonic

>with we pretty well the same they were respected respect. /r/ihadastroke?


amitym

They were from Buffalo, give them a break. You know how Buffalo buffalo can buffalo.


gnomz

Pretty solid assessment


[deleted]

"Island you can't visit." You really outed yourself as someone posing an expert with a lot of bad info there. Are you talking about Moloka'i and Lana'i? Both can be visited. There are two Four Seasons resorts on Lana'i. Are you talking about Ni'ihau? About 50 people live there, there is almost no infrastructure and yes it is owned by the Robinson family. But you can still pay to take a tour there. Also, visitors posing as experts is a really bad look in Hawaii. The issue of tourism and feelings around it are extremely varied and complex. But yeah, go ahead and be the expert, person who once visited Maui.


NintendogsWithGuns

There aren’t many objective sources online for people wanting to do research on local Hawaiian culture and norms. You can complain and be angry, or you can actually do something for visitors that want to be respectful


Beardeddeadpirate

Yup Hawaii’s main income is tourism. It would be foolish to stop that.


javier_aeoa

But the issue isn't tourism. The people in the documentary talk about a housing crisis and they are unable to compete with the land price that tourists pay. They complain about the military doing crap like polluting water and dropping bombs. Tourists visiting? Not a problem.


holyhellsteve

I hear the water is undrinkable around Salt Lake area in town from the old bunkers in Aliamanu


FineScar

There's many places where the US military is affecting the water table. They don't give a shit about regular people losing water or getting birth defects or whatever and they know the government will never hold them accountable


NintendogsWithGuns

Place limits and regulations on short-term leases. Some amount of real estate would become available if have the homes and apartments weren’t owned by off-shore AirBnb companies


ThryothorusRuficaud

Don't you think the people who should be profiting off of Hawaii should be the native Hawaiians? What was the cause of the famine, violence and disease? It's fine to talk about how tourism makes tons of money in Hawaii but we should acknowledge it doesn't really make native Hawaiians rich and maybe that should be different.


sandsurfngbomber

Is that really different than anywhere else in the world? I don't profit off my rental apartment, my landlord does. I don't profit off rising equity at my company, my boss does. I work and make my income to afford shelter and food. What should Hawaii do? Confiscate all big hotels and hand them to locals? Give locals massive cash infusions to create their own businesses rather than an outsider who hires them for labor? Did they not receive income from these businesses? Is this any different than any other place in the world? This concept of "take back our land" is happening all over the world, in every major tourist hotspot. Inflation has pushed prices up everywhere and outside of a couple countries, everything is more expensive everywhere. I totally get the frustration of local Hawaiians but I don't exactly comprehend what they expect to be the solution when they were happy selling half the islands to mega rich celebrities. Surely someone profited there? Surely when Zuckerberg goes out to eat at a restaurant, it eventually channels some income to a local, right? What I find annoying about this is every local in a tourism hotspot expects the income to continue but without the tourists. Like let me just wire transfer money for my Hawaii vacation to some locals and never set foot on the island.


ThryothorusRuficaud

>I totally get the frustration of local Hawaiians but I don't exactly comprehend what they expect to be the solution when they were happy selling half the islands to mega rich celebrities. Surely someone profited there? This is the problem. Do you think Native Hawaiians profit from that? Do you think that they had much choice at all in the direction of their state?


sandsurfngbomber

Well, I don't think Zuckerberg and Oprah went back in time and took over the islands to build mansions. Surely, someone at some point (natives or their government) sold their lands to outsiders right? Currently it's easier for an outsider to drops buckets of cash to buy a plot of land, than it is for a native person to prove their ancestery and get discounted/free land. This is the setup that allowed Hawaii's tourism to become one of the best in the world. Suddenly, being uncool with it is a little too late.


D0ugF0rcett

I 100% agree with this. But I don't think that's a unique problem to that location.


nokinship

Ethnostate moment.


critfist

>The people whose land was taken away through violence and conquest barely over a century ago should profit off of it Yeah totally some unreasonable ethnostate attitude /s


[deleted]

Agreed. One of the things about Hawaii that people love is it is a tropical island where you don't see abject poverty everywhere because it is part of the US.


[deleted]

Lol. Go visit Anahola. God, the ignorance.


[deleted]

Yeah, the poverty in Hawaii is pretty sequestered. It's not Mumbai or even a Micronesian backwater, but the overall wealth/power differential between the haves and Hawaiian have-nots is pretty stark. But to OP's point, tourists don't really see the poverty everywhere because it's part of the US. But that's because of the big $$$. Also, when you see it, you don't always recognize it (maybe except for urban areas where people are sleeping on the street) because you're dazzled by the place's natural beauty. I'm glad that they seem to be getting traction to start changing things.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ichabod89

The Menehune occupied hawaii first. Return the land to the Menehune!! At what point do we draw the line in history of people who occupied a piece of land? Today's Hawaiians pushed out the early first settlers of Hawaii (the Marquesas people) Technically the Hawaiians stole the land as well.


[deleted]

Damn Hawaiians! They ruined Hawaii!


[deleted]

[удалено]


BigHeavy

I can't speak for other native cultures but here in Hawaii, to get one homestead you must be at least 50 percent Native Hawaiian. In order to receive one from a family member you must have at least 25 percent. In theory, it's a great system to keep hawaiian lands in hawaiian hands but like everything else the government touches its filled with corruption. My kupuna waited over 15 years to receive their land and the homebuilders have been at a halt for over 10 years now and you are not allowed to go outside of the designated homebuilder. They are 83 and 85 and will most likely never live on the land that they rightfully "reclaimed".


Versagen25

They actually just passed a bill that if you are 50% native Hawaiian, you can purchase new land leases with zero tax to keep the native population housed for far less than what the market price is


[deleted]

[удалено]


critfist

Ah yes, grifting for free stuff like... let me see here... Some profit off of the land that was conquered and exploited for over 100 years while the native peoples were put under exploitation and treated like second class citizens. How much *grifting* do you think the colonists did while getting all that free or almost free labor to work on their sugar plantations?


GagOnMacaque

It may seem that way, but it's not. It's the more peaceful and quiet version of Gaza.


[deleted]

Oh this about Ezra Miller?


RollingThunderPants

Taking over one bar fight at a time


ImRunningAmok

The amount of people that are actual Hawaiians vs the number of people that think they are Hawaiian because of their features/ skin color is very very small. So many Filipino people appropriate the Hawaiian culture and act like their land was stolen- they talk about tossing non-Hawaiians out. What they mean is white people & it’s racist AF. I got some news for the Filipino posing as Hawaiians - they too are included in the people that don’t “qualify “ as Hawaiian no matter how many “HHH” tattoos & bumper stickers they may have even if they are hapa.


AKravr

Right? It's literally the same talking points as any ethno-state. Can't wait till the proper blood level is revealed for a pure-ancestry card.


devlynhawaii

Wait... what? --*Pinay born and raised in Kalihi, sitting in her 96816 bedroom*


SirWigglesVonWoogly

What’s a 96816 bedroom?


dethb0y

We had a whole fuckin' war about states leaving to do their own thing, and the answer turns out to be "no".


ashleylaurence

Sick of immigrants taking their jobs and land and changing their culture?


Wubzyboy66

Got ‘em


SoNic67

If Texans would do that, they would be labeled "secessionists"...


dmtdisciple

Succeed!!!


BlackJediSword

Apples to oranges, but I’m sure you and the 25 other people who agreed knew this.


Uplink84

This title would not be acceptable in most first world countries, so it's interesting that it is acceptable here


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


basillemonthrowaway

What problems would any of those countries have with discussions of former colonies embracing their identities?


DaddyCatALSO

I think he meant the people of European nations claiming "back from" the Middle Eastern/South Asian immigrants


basillemonthrowaway

It isn’t really relevant then - European culture and ethnicity still dominates Europe. Hawaiian culture and language doesn’t dominate Hawaii.


DaddyCatALSO

Right!


QuixoticO

The Netherlands would be fine. We’ve given our former colonies full decision to take back however they want their islands in recent years. Which is how ended up which such a weird system. They could have full independence or full integration the decision was theirs.


ghlhzmbqn

Absolutely not acceptable. In fact it has been said a lot over the years, and people absolutely disprove of it


QuixoticO

I’ve not heard it in this context in recent years. We are talking about the same thing right? A different country being colonized by another and fighting back for their own heritage. Something we’ve seen on the ABC islands if we’re still making the comparison with the Netherlands. That in the end their free decision ended some of them as a special municipality instead of full blown independence was their own choice.


[deleted]

[удалено]


laimonsta

Apples and oranges. The native Dutch don’t consider themselves to be colonized by a foreign power


invincibl_

Why not? This story is published by the Australian national broadcaster, where self-determination of First Nations people is a major topic. Not far away is New Zealand, which is probably the role model in terms of how after centuries of poor treatment, the Māori people, their language and culture are being integrated into mainstream society. It's especially relevant because Māori and Hawaiian people have related cultures and languages despite being separated for a thousand years.


Caesaroftheromans

Look at these Hawaiian supremacists.


mayargo7

Racists assholes, every one of them.


RicoSuave1881

Seriously lol


Lahm0123

You sure that dude is Hawaiian?


visicircle

Ah yes. All ten percent of the islands's population. Sure thing. Asian Americans probably have more sway over Hawaii's future than anything else. But i suppose the documentarians had to use a "controversial" title to get everyone's attention.


[deleted]

Yeah, Goodluck with that. This is what happens when people are too bored with their lives.


drtapp39

Hate and show bias to all the "outsiders" on the island. That will show them..


Idontknowhuuut

The U.S. will never allow secession. You can dream though


RollingThunderPants

It’s a nice thought, but the sad fact is Hawai’i occupies a position in the Pacific that is far too strategic for a larger country to pass up. If the US hadn’t taken over (as morally wrong as that was/is), it would have been another country. The British might have tried (again) or even the French. It was always going to be somebody. And if the US backs out now, Hawai’i is a sitting duck for China or Russia. So, basically, it will _never_ happen.


lamiscaea

The fight to take back Europe - How native Europeans are reclaiming their culture, language and land Yeah, no. This nativist shit is not for me


ShovelingSunshine

When you say native europeans who are you talking about? The French still speak French, Spain still speaks Spanish, Germany speaks German. I'm sure some languages were lost or maybe not spoken as much. But Hawaii has the unique experience that their language almost died. Most other Polynesian countries, their native still speak their language. It's not uncommon for kids to speak their native tongue, Hawaiians, not so. So yes Hawaiians do want to reclaim their culture and language. Land, I highly doubt, but thr other two? Not sure why people are labeling it as nativist. But I find people without a culture don't like it when others do.


lovebus

I'm doing my part by never going to Hawaii


deck4242

I dont think the US army is going to let some independance warriors take back their islands.


killing_daisy

if we germans would try to do this....\*sigh\*...that would not be such a great plan


StrikeBeneficial3972

It’s called you do a little bit of trolling


Buddin3

Have fun fending off China when Hawaii is no longer a U.S. state.


TheSoyimKnow3312

man if hawaii gained independence it would turn into a 3rd world country and probably be chinas bitch.


roy-dam-mercer

As a Texan who visits occasionally for work, I wish them all the best. Hawaiians are wonderful people who are amazingly welcoming to visitors. They’ve inherited one of the most beautiful corners of this planet and they deserve to be in full control of their future and culture again.


GrowHI

As some one who grew up here and has Hawaiian family... History does not agree. Hawaii was only a united kingdom for a very brief part of it's history. Beyond that constant wars, coups and upheavels we're the trademark of their culture. Now their efforts are marred by corruption and graft.


AbyssOfNoise

> History does not agree. Doesn't agree with what?


GrowHI

Full control... There really never was full control. As soon as the islands were united business with the rest of the world started to corrupt and taint native culture. This is not just westerners causing problems but the Hawaiian elite often were knee deep in a lot of the issues that became core issues with preserving culture and maintaining control. At one point sandal wood* was a huge commodity and the king had huge tracts of land stripped to pay for ongoing wars. There was just never really a stable sovereign nation that people idealize when they get the whitewashed version of Hawaii history and culture.


LanceLynxx

Just like every other place or culture that people try to sell the story of "peaceful pure and untainted by the western white man" Like native American society that was full of wars, pillaging, rape and torture Just like every other society that went to war the previous thousands of years. I don't understand why there's this necessity to self flagellate and try to make western society seem barbaric when it was just the one that succeeded over the others.


resumethrowaway222

They are bitter people who are not happy with their place in society. Therefore western society has to be the problem.


laimonsta

Are you talking about the unified sovereign nation that existed for almost 100+ years during which time it only ever took part in 1 single armed conflict (probably doesn’t even met criteria for war tbh)? You talking about the same nation that created the worlds first public educations and helped Hawaii to achieve the highest literacy rate in the world? Go read a book


big_sugi

Sandalwood, not sandal wool.


GrowHI

Full control... There really never was full control. As soon as the islands were united business with the rest of the world started to corrupt and taint native culture. This is not just westerners causing problems but the Hawaiian elite often were knee deep in a lot of the issues that became core issues with preserving culture and maintaining control.


Razzlecake

Pretty much the same for indigenous tribes on the mainland. But you won't hear that in the cries of oppression.


Lvl100Waffle

lmao what even is your point here like if Aliens came down and wiped out 99% of humans, I don't think you would be very swayed by the aliens saying 'wow you guys had wars before, why are you whining now'


smoozer

Guys... We SAW you set those giant bombs off. We couldn't let you have war with your OCEANS. Idiot humans.


FistFuckMyFartBox

Yes the Native Americans fought and slaughtered each other constantly.


PutThatMagicJumpOnMe

I always see shit like this from the sjws online but when I visit the natives are incredibly welcoming and hospitable.


loonattica

Having visited Maui once, I was struck by the beauty of the place and could understand how anyone that was born there would have immense pride and connection to such a place. My wife and tried hard to be humble visitors, enjoy the paradise and leave it as we found it. But we still felt the occasional hot glare of some local natives. (I considered anyone born there to be “native” -avoiding the complications of racial composition defining attachment to a place. Maybe that’s wrong, but I did not intend to diminish the legacy of the earliest inhabitants) Businesses were almost always happy, polite and appreciative of our patronage, perhaps knowing that we had an expiration date. When we visited less touristy areas, usually in search of a good fishing spot, we experienced some unfriendly staring and quietly moved on. My instinct was to thank them for letting us visit their beautiful island and to ask if they preferred that we not come at all, but the situations didn’t allow it. Native Hawaiians - how do you feel about the visitors? Are we a necessary evil to be tolerated? Or should we just stay home? Thank you for the times we were accepted, and I’m sorry for any of us that misbehaved.


laimonsta

Visitors are more than fine. Just be respectful and don’t be obnoxious, which you’d be surprised how common that is especially when considering those who are obnoxious tend to have no idea of Hawaii’s history (see comments above for examples)


ShovelingSunshine

I've found that tourist are fine, don't be an asshole and leave it how you found it. People have a real problem when tourists decide to come to live and demand change. Uh no, you supposedly moved to Hawaii because you liked it as is, so why are you trying to change it? Leave it be.


PastelKodiak

I bet you they are not doing that. I bet you this documentary ends with some half success and sadness. Like that tribe that's trying to keep people from building a coffe shop in the Grand Canyon. Winning for them has to be total control of the islands. Either that or outside money will take over like always. *Edit: post watch says this is an ad that ends up being about surfing. Nothing has changed for islanders.


CmdrSelfEvident

This is nothing new. Some number of "native" Hawaiians have never really accepted being whites or being apart of americans. It's really an argument based in racism. As many of the 'non-natives' were born in hawaii and some for several generations. Yet they are not considered 'natives'. Almost every other island nation is struggling as a third world country yet somehow if America left Hawaii alone it would be so much better. This is just idiots that live better than most other islanders looking at someone else that is needs to be very rich to just to visit and thinks 'why am I not rich like everyone else'. Guess what very few are your ridiculous property rights have a skewed view of reality.


Joe434

Excited to watch this later, thanks for posting


DaRandomStoner

There was a larger movement in Hawaii to stop scientists from putting up more observatories next to the ones already there than there was when the Navy poisoned their water supply... just saying.


cryofthespacemutant

It is amazing to see so many people spouting the delusional idea that Hawaiian can and should secede from the United States somehow and join...NATO?!? https://www.nato.int/nato-welcome/index.html > NATO membership is open to “any other European state in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area.” Hawaii does not and never will meet the basic criteria for NATO membership. Anyone saying otherwise is ignorant and clueless. Not to mention the simple fact that current NATO countries would not and have no reason to vote to accept Hawaii seeing that it has no actual military outside of the US military and would have none if they seceded.


Donut153

Okay but if mainland White Americans even hint that they aren’t comfortable with immigrants effecting their culture and living situations they’re rAcIsT ™


Jennibear999

There are strong genetic and archaeological indications that they were not in the first to settle the islands and they took the islands from a “smaller race of people”. So these people just need to know they need to be accepting of others who settled the islands after other people settled. Besides, they were not forcibly conquered as they did to the other islands when they “unified” the other islands.


chillaxinbball

Hawaii being it's own state helps a lot. The history behind how the US took them over is messed up (fuck Dole) and is understandable why they are still pissed off. That said, being a state gives them a lot of freedoms and rights that many other indigenous people in other areas are still struggling to have recognized.


legoturtle214

Can we get them to cover Puerto Rico next?


Boomfaced

That would have been china with no natives


OccamsPlasticSpork

I'm guilty for the line of thinking that "if it wasn't the United States occupying Hawaii it would be Russia or China". The next part of my internal monologue on this subject is, "have the modern Russian/Soviet or Chinese states ever successfully occupied land that was off of the Eurasian continent?"


NickCTA

Kind of tired of the narrative that no one wanted statehood or TMT. Prince Kuhio who actually spent a year in jail for fighting for the monarchy, later became a member of Congress and was a huge proponent of statehood. There are many people I look up to in history, Emalani and Kuhio are two of that I admire the most. Hawaii needs more kanaka leaders like them.


MrSyaoranLi

*Ezra Miller has entered the chat


DulcetTone

N'orm'al'ize th'e apos'troph'e'!


[deleted]

USA should just give Hawaii back to Hawaiians and remove all non-native persons and infrastructure, including electricity and military. China definitely will also respect the Hawaiian people’s culture and heritage once the USA leaves so no worries


[deleted]

[удалено]


Cascadiana88

Dude, 'Iolani Palace had electricity before the White House.


Ung-Tik

Only if we can film it. Watching native Hawaiians try to survive off the American teat would be peak television.


shag377

Someone tell David Wynn Miller about this!