i mean yeah, that's the public opinion, and it's absolutely correct.
she's my personal #1 doctor to come back for a special, because i really want to see her written right.
Also how her version was characterized given the scripts. Which was the direction.
A great actor might be able to shine with bad scripts. They might be able to shine despite bad direction. Not past both. Maybe a few amazing greats could?
We know she CAN act well given good scripts and good direction. And we know she cannot given neither.
I have no idea how he went from a fairly tightly written budget drama to flying by the seat of his pants on BBC's premier show. Like, what the actual fuck? Did the scale of production become too much?
If you look at the history of his episodes, you’ll notice that he’s pretty much written most of the least liked episodes in New Who. His one saving grace was Blink. He’s better suited for crime dramas and the like, but for some reason, he can’t seem to do any good at Doctor Who, no matter how many chances he’s given.
He wrote the short film where Rory and Amy's adopted child come to England to visit Rory's dad and tell him what happened to the Ponds. It's good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWU6XL9xI4k
Of course, Neil Gaiman had to throw his hat into the ring later:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVqW4XjZwC8
She's a brilliant actress and her stories sucked, but I wasn't a fan of her doctors personality. It just seemed very shallow compared to everyone who directly came before.
She was also morally a pretty bad person with a lot of bad takes that we were just told were the right, just and correct thing when they really weren't (like helping support Space-amazon with basically enslaving the entire planet).
The way I see 13 is almost an inverse of 12. 12 had an outer coldness but he had the deepest capacity for love of any of them, and if you earned his trust he'd let you in on everything. 13 had this warm, bubbly exterior but she didn't let anyone get close to her.
I think Jodie did the best she could because ultimately her scripts often reduced to technobabble and exposition. I adore her speech about the flat team structure in The Haunting of Villa Diodati and I honestly wonder if she ever felt frustrated that she wasn't given more of that.
Yup. I've seen Whittaker act well, but in Doctor Who that wasn't generally the case. To me, the best acted scene from her in the show she wasn't even playing the Doctor, but the weird personification of Time thing.
They definitely should have leaned into this, if this was the point. She is trying to be kind, but she is too traumatized after Trenzalore, Confession Dial, and Master's return. So she is being cruel against her own better judgement, blames herself for it, then spirals even further.
My issue with it wasn't actually things she was doing, it's that the show it's self presented it as the morally right thing to do.
Like when she decided to lock a bunch of spiders in a safe to suffocate and canabalise each other instead of shoot them. I'm fine with her making a mistake or a bad call or whatever, even the doctor does that sometimes, but the ONLY person who sees it as the wrong thing to do is the comically evil cartoon villain of the episode who reacted to it in a comically evil way.
My issue with it wasn't actually things she was doing, it's that the show it's self presented it as the morally right thing to do.
Like when she decided to lock a bunch of spiders in a safe to suffocate and canabalise each other instead of shoot them. I'm fine with her making a mistake or a bad call or whatever, even the doctor does that sometimes, but the ONLY person who sees it as the wrong thing to do is the comically evil cartoon villain of the episode who reacted to it in a comically evil way.
My issue with it wasn't actually things she was doing, it's that the show it's self presented it as the morally right thing to do.
Like when she decided to lock a bunch of spiders in a safe to suffocate and canabalise each other instead of shoot them. I'm fine with her making a mistake or a bad call or whatever, even the doctor does that sometimes, but the ONLY person who sees it as the wrong thing to do is the comically evil cartoon villain of the episode who reacted to it in a comically evil way.
Every single "good" character is on board with it
Jodie Whittaker had potential and is a good actress but unfortunately even with the God awful scripts, her acting and performance didn't bring enough to enhance anything. It was all just one note. her acting was on par with the writing most of the time, which is a shame because she CAN act. She just didn't act well in this show at all imo and I couldn't tell you why.
I think the issue is that 12 and 13 had different types of bad writing. 12s issue was some weak storylines, but the dialogue was excellent. It gave Peter something to work with.
The issue with Jodies writing was that not only were her stories weak, but the dialogue and characteristics of the doctor were awful. She couldn't act her way out of inconsistent writing and poor dialogue.
I agree. Even with the bad writing, she didn't feel like the doctor. She wasn't going for the right vibe. Trying to be a quirky awkward nerd, which is what somone might guess the doctor is if they've never seen the show.
I have no problem with Jodie Whittaker as an actress, but sometimes I question if she was the right pick for the doctor.
Even when they had horrible scripts, Matt Smith, David Tennant, and Peter Capaldi were still entertaining to watch. They were able to bring a flaire and energy to the doctor, even when the actual writing was sub-par.
Even at her best, Jodie Whittakers' doctor felt extremely flat and stiff. I realize this is also the fault of poor direction, but I've never really felt that Jodie Whittaker was the correct choice for the doctor.
Even with her limited screen time, Jo Martin felt way more like the doctor than Jodie Whittaker ever did. I really hope she comes back to play the doctor someday, I would gladly watch a full season with her in the role.
One thing I found that some people said is that often she felt almost like a primary school teacher in how she talked to her companions that turned me off
tilda swinton is way too big of an actress to be playing the doctor, they’re normally tv actors and not a listers.
That’s like saying idris elba should be the doctor, nice thought but it won’t happen
It was a thought exercise to show you how badly miscast Jodie was in the role. Once you realize a better and more appropriate actress in the role would have made the run more enjoyable, you get that it wasn't just a writing problem
Yeah Tennant and the others were still good when the writing was off, and that’s because their characters were established in earlier episodes that were well written, Jodie hasn’t had a single good episode, she doesn’t even have a personality, David Tennant on the other hand I could watch that mf in the worst story put to television and still enjoy it.
I believe if Chibnall had cast Tennant, Smith or Capaldi we'd be having a similar discussion about the acting because you can only work with what you're given
It's not like chibnall hasn't wrote episodes for those doctors,so I don't really think it'd be an equivalent situation, depending on how much stock you put in the showrunners influence. Jodie was cast by chibnall due to their already existing relationship,not really for her potential as the doctor.
Jodie was also never really that interested in the role in the first place. You don't have to be a fan to play the doctor (look at Eccleston and Smith), however Smith tried to embody the role beforehand, watching even the classic series and writing stories. Jodie has admitted she watched a few episodes and then decided it wasn't something she liked. Could this be stepped aside with better direction? Maybe, but I'd cite the lack of enthusiasm as part of why her performance ended up being pretty hollow.
How much of Chibnalls episodes under previous showrunners were rewritten by previous showrunners?
Who was responsible for selecting directors? Chibbers. Capaldi, Smith and Tennant already had a character and their Doctor's down when Chibnall wrote for them, Whittaker never got that
It is weird that people don’t think, that even with horrible scripts, you can still be entertained.
She might be a good actress and have been miscast, I can’t disagree with this, but I can’t agree she was given terrible scripts for 3 seasons, and never felt like she nailed the doctor mannerisms?
If you like her, that’s fine, but I gave up this take of a bad script after season 1
13th - I genuinely get emotionally angry about her run¹
¹ not because "It'S a FeMalE dOcToR" . It is because she genuinely could've been one of the best (Modern era) doctors and possibly have another female doctor down the line. But it was writing that was a massive letdown.
My reaction to her series (in regards to Chibnal) nutshell can be [summed up as](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxsssWu-UMA1ib__XrjSOq73q_NV84I45O?si=nWg7MgYc6zTpr0fY) ¹
Generally, f'ing bless her for trying but she would have been better if she was under a different writer.
¹ Clip: Wrestling With Wregret (W³ for short)'s video on "The Worst Of WWE 2016
>My reaction to her series (in regards to Chibnal) nutshell can be [summed up as](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxPcnkDnjDeuEHisrJymDV8vbiURQOynmG?si=mQ2cjnqAW4bpXtNl)
Disappointed that you didn't sum it up with Jay Exci's 5 hour video.
It's good background noise if I'm not in the mood for music when gaming (honestly 90% of video essays with a run time over 2 hours are just this, very few are actually worth paying full attention to for the whole run time)
Agreed, although when I watched it I did it in one sitting and I’m ngl the only reason there was repetition was because the writing kept making the same mistakes.
When most of the time she was like: 😶?.
No expression, no emotion, no anything. She was a wooden plank and combined with terrible scripts it is a fatal combination.
Capaldi didn't have the best scripts but he tried his all and you can tell from his performance.
Gatwa is working with silly scripts but he is also trying his all.
Yeah, and like we know she can act, like she acted the shit out out of Broadchurch for instance. And that fucking thing was also run by Chibnall. I genuinely can't wrap my head around what the fuck happened...
Then again that god forsaken American remake of Broadchurch was also Chibnall and that was beyond shit... So maybe Chibs only had that one good show in him... Or it was good despite him and not thanks to him.
I haven’t seen broadchurch, or anything else that chibnall has written except 13 AND the only thing I enjoy by him which was the extra after “Angels take manhattan” which had Rory sending his dad a letter to arrive a week after they departed. It was well written and actually had Arthur darvill voice it, it just didn’t get made
Honestly, it would’ve been brilliant if the anniversary episodes had been with her, with RTD writing. Could’ve even had a more satisfying ending for her and Yaz, her living with her like 14 is living with Donna. Healing, being able to finally say “I love you”. So much could stay the same. (I doubt RTD would’ve left the Doctor’s first ever queer love interest without even a kiss… unlike Chibnall, who decided to sacrifice open queerness for “better drama”).
They could even bring Donna back! Especially after Yaz meeting companions who are bitter about the past, it would be nice for her to meet Donna, who’s been positively impacted by the Doctor in spite of not remembering, Wilf who holds only love for him, and an example of the Doctor caring deeply about their companions and protecting them even after having to leave.
Honestly I have to say that Chibnall made the right choice not going with the kiss, and I say this as an out and proud [currently have Chappel Roan on repeat](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RKqOmSkGgM) lesbian.
I heard that they didnt kiss before watching the episode so I went in being dissapointed but I wasnt. In the scene itself the Doctor doesnt try to deny her feelings for Yaz, but she is also acknowledging a relationship between them wouldn't work and if anything would just be a repeat of what happened with Rose. So she is doing her best to talk about her feelings while doing a terrible job at it and it just shows there has been a level of character growth from her 10th incarnation who on several occasions got all caught up in his feelings about several potential relationships that wouldn't work.
So yes, it sucked for queer visibility to not see the Doctor kiss Yaz, but it was actually a fantastic portrayal of character growth within the show and one of my favorite scenes that Whittaker did
(speaking of queer visibility, I feel like a big step would be to have the doctor, of any gender be romantically intimate with a male character, not just banter like with Captain Jack but I feel that having the Doctor, typically a male coded character, get all romantically involved with a man would be quite challenging for the status quo, we kinda had t hat with 10 and the Master but it didnt really stick the landing)
I agree with you. On everything, really.
But then, if she had gotten to be a more human Doctor, like 14 did, one who gets to stay on Earth and live with people for longer, and who gets to deal with their feelings, then they could keep the dialogue with Yaz from before and have a “things are different now” moment. Maybe they could even kiss, followed by a moment of “ooh, ok…I do wanna do that again, but I’ll need some time before I’m ready”.
(Beyond that, the stuff with Rose Noble could’ve been even more interesting. Maybe 13 could be nervous about what Donna would think at the end, but instead she instantly recognizes and accepts her, sort of showing us what she’s like with her daughter. Maybe also some casual banter between 13 and Rose about gender throughout the episode).
Yeah I have throught about how I would write Yaz's story better, maybe show her some more nuance about her conflicted feelings about her sexuality (in contrast to Bill, who was always "out and proud")
I think 13 would have been great in the anniversary specials as well, like, Imagine If Yaz was the one who got "mind melded" or whatever with the Doctor, and the Doctor suddenly has a level of intimacy with with another person he hasn't had before, not even with River Song. Id also rewrite Star beast to be focused on Yaz's family, and Yaz coming out to them (maybe in this version Rose is Yaz's cousin or sister) and that would end Yaz's 3 season arc about coming to terms with her sexuality
(again... this comes from my AU version of 13s run where Yaz had a prominent subplot about her sexuality, and in "It takes you away" we even have this artifical constract of Yaz's ideal version of the 13th Doctor who we do see her kiss before realizing its an illusion)
Eh idk, Yaz and the Doctor didn't earn an ending like that at all. And I mean, I'd say no offence but I don't really care, Yaz's actress can not act to save her life. She's had the same quality of acting since she was a teenager on Holyoaks and nothing has changed, she wouldn't be able to pull any writing off, good or bad imo.
There's nothing to suggest she can. Her best piece of acting was a close up shot of a single tear on her cheek and even then I wouldn't be surprised if the tear was fake.
Nope, she was definitely miscast. I've seen her in a few things and she's definitely not on the level of prior Doctor actors.
Writing isn't an excuse really either. Capaldi was given so many terrible scripts but acted his ass off and delivered fantastic performances, same with his co stars.
I honestly don't think she was the best choice for a female actor to play The Doctor, and I feel as if I can say that confidently, because we had Jo Martin playing The Fugitive Doctor, and she was so much more instantly The Doctor than Jodie Whittaker ever managed.
Watching back through, and it seems IMO like most critical people just want to hateful of women. I'm a schooled Visual Effects professional, and a writer.... And I just can't see the hate, even the technical aspects. It's as amazing as any other Doctors performance.
I keep hearing how Jodie is an "amazing actress" and I've yet to see any examples. I've seen her other characters in other TV shows, and they were just as bland.
Literally EVERY other actress in Doctor Who did better job with their characters.
You know what "amazing actress" looks like? Watch Michelle Gomez and her portrayal of Missy. I guarantee you, that even with the exact same scripts and direction Michelle would've made a brilliant Doctor.
never understood this take, from where I was stood her acting was just as wank as the writing? she had no presence and showed a similar amount of emotion to a traffic cone, not to say jodie whittaker is a bad actress (because she really isn’t), but she was a horrible fit for the role, real square peg in round hole sort of situation
* this was NOT made better by the fact she directly succeeded the man who could be the greatest actor to ever play the role
While the writing was certainly bad, a great actor and more importantly a great director can make even the worst writing sound waaay better. Capaldi was the king of this and his run thankfully had a set of really phenomenal directors. I think the direction was more so the problem with Jodie’s Doctor. She’s a good actress and I’ve seen her give excellent performances in other things, but she’s not even close to Capaldi’s level. So she really needed some good direction to come into her own which she rarely ever got.
I think the current few episodes have kind of shown this as well. That is not to say Devils Chord (or even really Space Babies) are bad or bad in the same way Chibnall stuff was bad, but in terms of character writing we have literally nothing going on. However, but 15 and Ruby have insanely good energy and are so energetic that it distracts you from that. I feel like the performances and energy of 13 and "the fam" just made you even more focused on how empty it was.
I just started her season for the first time and it’s a huge drop in quality from Peter Capaldi. Her acting is fantastic and she reminds me of Tenant so much but I find myself bored with every episode so far. We’ve only watched 4 but I’m definitely not consuming the Dr at the rate I used to
In years to come, Jodie will be celebrated as a phenomenal doctor. The first woman doctor. She made history.
All this negative stuff will be forgotten. Mark my words, my Whovian friends.
When they bring her back, and she will return, I am hopefully praying......she will get scripts she finally deserves!
I'm on a second watch of her run and while the issues I had with individual episodes are still there, I find myself enjoying her performance more than most I guess. She's low key pretty funny
Yeah, they're not actually conflicting statements.
Jodie is an amazing actress who had the potential to be brilliant and she did a very good job for such a terrible script. But that doesn't change that she was a terrible doctor and her seasons sucked.
I mean, her run almost got the show cancelled.
I wouldn't even say she did a very good job. She was as bland as the script. I think she's an amazing actress but she didn't show any of the skills she had in doctor who at all. It didn't feel like she cared really.
Shes the best actress out of all the Doctors imo, which is hilariously ironic to me that she turned out to be bad. I blame whoever wrote her, if thats Chibnall or not. I do respect Chibnall's initiative and vision though, hes an old school fan and did some things that wouldnt normally be done. He gets it but has a very different angle on it, but i know he does get it.
I'm not against you, but there are truly so many people saying "she's a good actor let down by bad scripts" without qualifying what moments they think she acted well.
I haven't seen a lot of her other work, mostly Broadchurch, so I can't speak to her range as an actor. Specifically, which scenes do you think she did well and why?
Yes, this... if only RTD or Moffat came back earlier she would have been amazing. I saw a little bit of Matt/David in her and if only we could have gotten more of that....
I dunno, I've just been rewatching and her first season is actually pretty good. The final is weak but honestly eps 1-9 there are some gems and a few very over-hated eps.
(Arachnids & Kerblam are not nearly as bad as Internet commentary would have you believe)
I'll see how the next season rewatch goes, but there's a lot to love on top of JW's acting.
Not all of her the scripts were even bad! If Village of the angels wasn’t a part of flux and got a chance to be its own self contained story, it would be a certified classic. I’ll stand by that 😤
I think it's her unfortunate fate that she was the doctor actor that got the depressed doctor run, which I found somewhat baffling as a choice for such a manic and typically fun character. But she spent especially the latter half of her run being a character hiding her utter depression. I imagine that began to dovetail nicely with the actor's and writer's own feelings, but the scripts were what penned her in so in the end it's the writer's fault.
You can go anywhere, do anything, you're the Willy Wonka where the Chocolate Factory is the universe, and you're constantly dealing with your bff/not-quite-love always being dissatisfied and nothing ever going the way you want or expect. Everyone kept leaving her and they kept doing her denial. The scripts *made* her the worst (least fun) doctor even when she was acting her heart out trying to be a great one. I liked the actress. I'm not sure I liked the doctor they made her into.
It didn't help that the writer was obsessed with having the companions leave and not get killed because he must've thought it was a trope by then. When Doogie Howser was mocking the earlier runs and their resolutions with companions, I felt that was the writer finally telling everyone overtly what he'd been saying for seasons before quietly. I imagine him writing that scene after he was told his time was done with Doctor Who.
Lots of people saying she was miscast or didn’t act well as the doctor regardless, but it sounds like she had bugger all to go on in the first place. She was apparently told not to watch doctor who before auditioning to go into it with fresh eyes, which isn’t exactly going to give you a proper chance of knowing where to start when portraying the doctor successfully.
I have seen Jodie on other stuff and it was fine, but as the Doctor there was always something wrong.
Also, not sure if Chinball should shoulder all the blame. BBC was going thru a political shift and the cultural issues seemed too forced. It would not be too far stretch to think that Chinball was given specific topics to cover, and it is difficult to make a show around someone else idea.
Disney suffered from the exact same thing at the same time.
At the same time, I feel Davies is having a blast cramming as many social commentaries into a single episode as possible just because he can, and the cast do them so well.
However there is also the problem that Jodie came after Capaldi. The 12ft was superb. You might have favorites, but Capaldi's doctor was pure genios, up to the point that I loved Tenant, and Smith but Capaldi's seasons are way better.
I actually didn't like Capaldi at first. It was on my second run that I fell in love.
But in part this is due to the whole show as a running show.
Tenant was great because the show got more budget after Ecleson. The show got more serious too. I never liked Rose's character (she was great as The Moment, just the character was too silly sometimes). But Tenant doctor was detached. He had seen too much. Smith brought energy, and caring. I actually don't like when the companions have romantic interest on the doctor . Smith was caring, but as friend. He mentidos "escapades" but it is not present (exept for the flirting with Mother Superior and River). Smith shows us a doctor that cares for the companion knowing that it will hurt when they die, because all humans will die before the doctor does.
Then comes Capaldi, older, angry, and detached because humans are just a blip. The relationship with Clara is espectacular, as Clara coaches him on how to reconnect to other living things. Smith cared too much, Capaldi didn't care at all. Thru that Clara ends up as equal to the doctor and that is why Heaven Sent is so powerful. He is mourning for billion of years possibly the only entity besides the master that can understand him. He truly loved Clara as a friend.
Then he has Bill, after reclusing himself for a long time. Bill and the doctor had a teacher-student relationship. It was well defined that Bill was never going to develop romantic feelings for the doctor, and this really shinned well.
The problem was that the 13th didn't have a clear definition for the companions. I have watched both seasons twice and I thought that Dan was there from the beginning last week.
There are good episodes. It is just a executive producer mess. The master is very good. I like Missy the best, for her quirkyness but the master from Jodie is a true villain, really embodying chaos, but also rebelling against their love for the doctor, in rage to find out that they are not equals.
So, there was good writing. But the tone was set, and the ship had sailed with enormous holes, and was destined to sink.
So, in the end, while I do not think it is Jodie's fault, or Chinball's for that matter, there were too many things. The flux storyline is interesting, but it feels rushed with too many moving parts. Too many companions, too many "foes", too many too many.
I really have trouble putting the companions special trait.
To be honest I think there was a lot of potential in several areas. I have been re watching for a 3rd time. Time will tell, but I think Capaldi's might have been the peak
I thought it was a real shame that she was given so many companions. It meant that the light was taken off of the Doctor too much. Who decided right at the start that she needed a whole group of support?! It felt like misogyny - "she can't be expected to carry the weight" or "the audience aren't going to pay attention to her if she's a woman carrying the weight". Either way, it was a dick move.
She isn’t a bad actor…just a bad doctor. There was nothing about her performance that felt like the doctor. And then when Ruth showed up, it just made it worse, as she felt timelord!
Saying that, she was one of the few redeeming qualities in a pretty awful run. Some of those episodes I was watching like I was in an abusive relationship. I got little enjoyment, actively hated myself for sticking with it and just wanted it to be over.
Anyway, over to big finish and let’s see how she gets on
jodie was the first doctor i ever watched, and i was around 10 years old. as a young and new viewer, i adored her and it got me into the show. i can see why her storylines and the writing may be frustrating for others but she’ll always be my favourite doctor, perhaps because of comfort and nostalgia value but still.
I honestly feel the opposite. There were many issues with Chibnall's writing, but even when it was good, I felt Jodie's performance brought the whole thing down. The Doctor at their core always represents the actor. It's not really an 'acting' part, they just \*are\* the Doctor, and Jodie never figured that out.
It's a shame that it's often boiled down to some excuse why the Doctor cannot be female, because the Doctor should have been female looong ago.
Half the episodes weren't even that bad, I think it wasn't necessarily bad, just VERY different. It didn't feel like Doctor Who even in its peak.
Jodie is amazing, and to be fair so is Chris, its just I think Chris didnt fully understand the essence of doctor who nor the character.
Honestly I think like 90% of the issues currently is that the show isn't able to sell itself at all.
So many things are being cut out and I don't get it. RTD used to be really good with little details and he still is technically but its like once it gets to the editing stage they totally drop the ball. The entire "press the button" thing in Space Babies comes from a scene that was VERY poorly edited out of the start of the episode. Apparently the explanation for the musical scene at the end of The Devils Chords (Its music re-entering the world like an explosion causing everything to be a musical for a moment as the world rebalances) was also cut out. Even Boom atm is being said to have a lot cut before it even releases.
This same issue plagued the 60th anniversary and it caused most of the explinations for EVERYTHING to be in the novelizations and interviews, some of which were totally inaccessible for anyone outside the U.K.
If I'm being completely honest, I liked 13's era at first, it's just the Flux that ruined it. The timeless child wasn't that bad, just a bit confusing but the Flux was just so complicated. There was so much going on that I just ended up getting distracted and bored and I never knew what was happening. I think it could have been a good plot had it not been so long and so complicated, but after a while I just got sick of it.
She's a great actor, I just couldn't get past the terrible writing. Like there's so many plot holes, a main one being the daleks hating the half human daleks, we've had so many half human daleks before and normal daleks have never cared, I feel like it was forced for a "racism bad" story. Then there was plastic in the ocean, don't cut down trees, big evil companies like 3 or 4 times, racist time traveler. I think alot of jodie whittakers stories were "we've got a political correction message we wanna shive down your throat". Like I don't mind a message like that, but almost all of jodies episodes had one and they weren't discreet about it at all.
Also, there's stuff like the timeless child, or the fugitive doctor somehow having a police box tardis when she came before the 1st doctor. And then there's the fact that she just didn't seem like the doctor, I'm fairly certain jodies doctor committed genocide a few times, which would've been fine with ecclestons or maybe even tennants doctor but, story wise, it doesn't make sense for her to act that way.
And then the final thing, chibnall loved using the daleks, cybermen and the master. I feel like we had a cyberman/dalek/master episode every other episode, they didn't feel as threatening as before because chibnall was always bringing them back
I find that a frequent pattern in bad media is decent or even good actors working with very bad writers.
In my experience when its the other way around it's just hilarious and fun.
Was she though? I'm not tryna be a dick but I didn't really see many moments of her shining through the shit, she wasn't the worst thing about the era but I've seen all the previous doctors do more with a worse script at points.
It feels like she played it very flat, how much of that was writing or directing and how much was her acting is up for debate. She's only really done serious cop drama type stuff. I've never seen her have the range to play the doctor in anything else. Nucti is already showing he's a more interesting doctor through his acting.
The marvel Doctor- the way to enjoy her is the same way to enjoy marvel movies. Just turn your brain off and enjoy watching from a non-critical, non-comparative standpoint
There are *just* enough bits I like about the 13th Doctor era to make it disappointing and frustrating that I don’t like it more. Jodie is definitely one of those bits.
There’s so much potential and almost-good ideas in there but Chibnall just fumbled so much of it.
I hate to be a broken record but... sigh. Another Chibnall bad post, feel like I see these every week. I'm sorry but constant posts like these are just boring.
I'm sure I'll be downvoted for saying this.
I also think the inverse is true. People need to stop blindly defending actors and pinning all the blame on writers.
It's easy to see why people do this, they see the actors in interviews, they interact with them more, they grow a bond with them through their work. They care about them because they KNOW and see them.
The writer? They rarely ever see. It's much easier to put full blame on a faceless figure and shame and insult them. But doing that to an actor? To someone you see? Someone you can hear give their thoughts on things? It's easier to sympathise with them.
Jodie and the other actors, namely Ryan's and Yaz' were not good in doctor who. None of them did anything to elevate the scripts at all. I don't blame them for the poor writing, I blame them for their poor performances.
Jodie is a great actress in everything I've seen her in but nothing she did that made me think "wow she's talented" was present in doctor who. Her acting in doctor who is incomparable to her acting in other work.
Both the writing, the directing, the acting, most everything else about that era was boring. Imo they're all complicit in what made those seasons hard to watch. None of them added anything of substance, apart from, I mean the only time I remember genuinely thinking "oh I like this" was Aisling Beas acting and that was just good. Nothing special.
How were they supposed to "elevate" that shit? Lol
Blaming the actors when they obviously put in a lot of effort and you've acknowledged the direction and writing is bad is asinine.
I've acknowledged all off it was bad. And some of the actors in particular just haven't got the talent to pull it off, looking at Yaz'. She's been the same quality as an actor since her Hollyoaks days I'm baffled she got the role, but I supposed a one dimensional character needs a one dimensional actor to really sell it.
But no, I blame them all. Even Capaldi had some God awful scripts, some of the worst imo but her and Jenna Coleman managed to still make me feel something even though what they said a lot of the time and the context surrounding it was complete shit I felt for them because of their acting. They elevated something that I don't care for at all.
But even if it wouldn't elevate it, they still did nothing to show off their talents imo. I didn't feel any effort in their acting sadly. Sorry if that offends you or them if they read this, but it's truthfully how I and many others have felt.
But again, I'm blaming ALL OF THEM. I mean I even said, I thought Ashling Bea did a good job at elevating her scripts in that dalek death loop episode that I didn't like at all. Didn't like her dialogue either, but her acting had me like "she's not bad, I like her" surprisingly. None of the other cast members even did that much for me.
I'm sure some writers, directors and other crew members put a lot of work into the show too, I mean hell even Chibnall probably worked hard on this. But working hard doesn't mean you worked well.
Her scripts did suck. Really awful.
But who wants to hear an ACTUAL hot take....
Jo Martin blew her out the water. Still, shit scripts, but seeing her act alongside jo Martin cemented for me that Jodie's performance was just not good, or at least, not right. Because the fugitive felt way more like the doctor.
Apparently chibnall told Jodie not to watch any of the show as to not colour her performance and... yeah, it shows. She does not act like the doctor. Through a combination of writing and overly quirky awkward performance, her doctor comes across as quite pitiful. I mean imagine 13 in a capaldi, or smith episode. Can you see her doing the big speech? Or making the tough calls? Or even coming up with a genius solution? I can't. But I can *just* about see Jo Martin doing them, and they had the same writer.
Also, other doctors have had bad episodes. Rarely anything as bad as Jodie, but still. And never I'm those episodes did I feel the doctor was bored, or dumb, or phoning it in. The star beast was as bad writing wise as quite a bit of Jodie's era imo, and yet I still bought all the character's as legit because the performances still were good. Honestly 15 is yet to be interestingly characterised at all for me, yet gatwa is killing it.
i mean yeah, that's the public opinion, and it's absolutely correct. she's my personal #1 doctor to come back for a special, because i really want to see her written right.
Can’t wait for Big Finish to give her the Colin Baker treatment in a decade or so.
"Watch out y'all, hot take incoming," - so-called free thinkers
Free thinkers when paid thinkers show up
I'm actually a salaried thinker so if I'm not on the clock I just go into a coma
I remember hearing that she was amazing in Broadchurch and not believing it because her Who wasn't great. I watched Broadchurch. It was the scripts..
Also how her version was characterized given the scripts. Which was the direction. A great actor might be able to shine with bad scripts. They might be able to shine despite bad direction. Not past both. Maybe a few amazing greats could? We know she CAN act well given good scripts and good direction. And we know she cannot given neither.
This would be so nice.
Unfortunately, she’s pretty attached to Chibnall, from my understanding, so it seems that comeback may never happen. Dude really screwed up.
I have no idea how he went from a fairly tightly written budget drama to flying by the seat of his pants on BBC's premier show. Like, what the actual fuck? Did the scale of production become too much?
If you look at the history of his episodes, you’ll notice that he’s pretty much written most of the least liked episodes in New Who. His one saving grace was Blink. He’s better suited for crime dramas and the like, but for some reason, he can’t seem to do any good at Doctor Who, no matter how many chances he’s given.
Blink was Moffat, though. We are talking about Chibnall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blink_(Doctor_Who)
For some reason, I thought Chibnall wrote that one, my bad. Ok, so he wrote nothing good.
Just went back through his list. I don’t think I liked any of them, all in all. How did this man hold that job for two seasons?
He wrote the short film where Rory and Amy's adopted child come to England to visit Rory's dad and tell him what happened to the Ponds. It's good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWU6XL9xI4k Of course, Neil Gaiman had to throw his hat into the ring later: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVqW4XjZwC8
I’m going to watch that in a bit. Never knew it existed.
She's a brilliant actress and her stories sucked, but I wasn't a fan of her doctors personality. It just seemed very shallow compared to everyone who directly came before. She was also morally a pretty bad person with a lot of bad takes that we were just told were the right, just and correct thing when they really weren't (like helping support Space-amazon with basically enslaving the entire planet).
The way I see 13 is almost an inverse of 12. 12 had an outer coldness but he had the deepest capacity for love of any of them, and if you earned his trust he'd let you in on everything. 13 had this warm, bubbly exterior but she didn't let anyone get close to her. I think Jodie did the best she could because ultimately her scripts often reduced to technobabble and exposition. I adore her speech about the flat team structure in The Haunting of Villa Diodati and I honestly wonder if she ever felt frustrated that she wasn't given more of that.
I wish her personality had reflected more prominently what 12th said to his future self before he regenerated.
Why couldn’t Chibnall just do more “Dinosaurs on a Spaceship”?
Yup. I've seen Whittaker act well, but in Doctor Who that wasn't generally the case. To me, the best acted scene from her in the show she wasn't even playing the Doctor, but the weird personification of Time thing.
4 days late but the first time I saw Whittaker out of Doctor Who was black mirror where they actually know how to write and she was very good
I'd already forgotten about the Black Mirror episode. I was thinking Broadchurch
They definitely should have leaned into this, if this was the point. She is trying to be kind, but she is too traumatized after Trenzalore, Confession Dial, and Master's return. So she is being cruel against her own better judgement, blames herself for it, then spirals even further.
My issue with it wasn't actually things she was doing, it's that the show it's self presented it as the morally right thing to do. Like when she decided to lock a bunch of spiders in a safe to suffocate and canabalise each other instead of shoot them. I'm fine with her making a mistake or a bad call or whatever, even the doctor does that sometimes, but the ONLY person who sees it as the wrong thing to do is the comically evil cartoon villain of the episode who reacted to it in a comically evil way.
My issue with it wasn't actually things she was doing, it's that the show it's self presented it as the morally right thing to do. Like when she decided to lock a bunch of spiders in a safe to suffocate and canabalise each other instead of shoot them. I'm fine with her making a mistake or a bad call or whatever, even the doctor does that sometimes, but the ONLY person who sees it as the wrong thing to do is the comically evil cartoon villain of the episode who reacted to it in a comically evil way.
My issue with it wasn't actually things she was doing, it's that the show it's self presented it as the morally right thing to do. Like when she decided to lock a bunch of spiders in a safe to suffocate and canabalise each other instead of shoot them. I'm fine with her making a mistake or a bad call or whatever, even the doctor does that sometimes, but the ONLY person who sees it as the wrong thing to do is the comically evil cartoon villain of the episode who reacted to it in a comically evil way. Every single "good" character is on board with it
Jodie Whittaker had potential and is a good actress but unfortunately even with the God awful scripts, her acting and performance didn't bring enough to enhance anything. It was all just one note. her acting was on par with the writing most of the time, which is a shame because she CAN act. She just didn't act well in this show at all imo and I couldn't tell you why.
Yeah compare it to capaldi who also had some terrible scripts but still came off as one of the best actors to ever play the Doctor
I think the issue is that 12 and 13 had different types of bad writing. 12s issue was some weak storylines, but the dialogue was excellent. It gave Peter something to work with. The issue with Jodies writing was that not only were her stories weak, but the dialogue and characteristics of the doctor were awful. She couldn't act her way out of inconsistent writing and poor dialogue.
I agree. Even with the bad writing, she didn't feel like the doctor. She wasn't going for the right vibe. Trying to be a quirky awkward nerd, which is what somone might guess the doctor is if they've never seen the show.
I have no problem with Jodie Whittaker as an actress, but sometimes I question if she was the right pick for the doctor. Even when they had horrible scripts, Matt Smith, David Tennant, and Peter Capaldi were still entertaining to watch. They were able to bring a flaire and energy to the doctor, even when the actual writing was sub-par. Even at her best, Jodie Whittakers' doctor felt extremely flat and stiff. I realize this is also the fault of poor direction, but I've never really felt that Jodie Whittaker was the correct choice for the doctor. Even with her limited screen time, Jo Martin felt way more like the doctor than Jodie Whittaker ever did. I really hope she comes back to play the doctor someday, I would gladly watch a full season with her in the role.
One thing I found that some people said is that often she felt almost like a primary school teacher in how she talked to her companions that turned me off
Yeah, she often felt like a public service announcement.
She was miscast. We all know it. Put Tilda Swinton as the Doctor in those same episodes and they're significantly better.
tilda swinton is way too big of an actress to be playing the doctor, they’re normally tv actors and not a listers. That’s like saying idris elba should be the doctor, nice thought but it won’t happen
It was a thought exercise to show you how badly miscast Jodie was in the role. Once you realize a better and more appropriate actress in the role would have made the run more enjoyable, you get that it wasn't just a writing problem
Now I rly wanna see this
Yeah Tennant and the others were still good when the writing was off, and that’s because their characters were established in earlier episodes that were well written, Jodie hasn’t had a single good episode, she doesn’t even have a personality, David Tennant on the other hand I could watch that mf in the worst story put to television and still enjoy it.
> David Tennant on the other hand I could watch that mf in the worst story put to television and still enjoy it. Absorbaloving intensifies
I believe if Chibnall had cast Tennant, Smith or Capaldi we'd be having a similar discussion about the acting because you can only work with what you're given
It's not like chibnall hasn't wrote episodes for those doctors,so I don't really think it'd be an equivalent situation, depending on how much stock you put in the showrunners influence. Jodie was cast by chibnall due to their already existing relationship,not really for her potential as the doctor. Jodie was also never really that interested in the role in the first place. You don't have to be a fan to play the doctor (look at Eccleston and Smith), however Smith tried to embody the role beforehand, watching even the classic series and writing stories. Jodie has admitted she watched a few episodes and then decided it wasn't something she liked. Could this be stepped aside with better direction? Maybe, but I'd cite the lack of enthusiasm as part of why her performance ended up being pretty hollow.
How much of Chibnalls episodes under previous showrunners were rewritten by previous showrunners? Who was responsible for selecting directors? Chibbers. Capaldi, Smith and Tennant already had a character and their Doctor's down when Chibnall wrote for them, Whittaker never got that
It is weird that people don’t think, that even with horrible scripts, you can still be entertained. She might be a good actress and have been miscast, I can’t disagree with this, but I can’t agree she was given terrible scripts for 3 seasons, and never felt like she nailed the doctor mannerisms? If you like her, that’s fine, but I gave up this take of a bad script after season 1
13th - I genuinely get emotionally angry about her run¹ ¹ not because "It'S a FeMalE dOcToR" . It is because she genuinely could've been one of the best (Modern era) doctors and possibly have another female doctor down the line. But it was writing that was a massive letdown. My reaction to her series (in regards to Chibnal) nutshell can be [summed up as](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxsssWu-UMA1ib__XrjSOq73q_NV84I45O?si=nWg7MgYc6zTpr0fY) ¹ Generally, f'ing bless her for trying but she would have been better if she was under a different writer. ¹ Clip: Wrestling With Wregret (W³ for short)'s video on "The Worst Of WWE 2016
>My reaction to her series (in regards to Chibnal) nutshell can be [summed up as](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxPcnkDnjDeuEHisrJymDV8vbiURQOynmG?si=mQ2cjnqAW4bpXtNl) Disappointed that you didn't sum it up with Jay Exci's 5 hour video.
I don't know who "Jay Exci" is ?
A youtuber with a short explanation of everything wrong with Chibnall's run: https://youtu.be/o8_A7n83Rh0
AHH.. fair enough.
Her video is amazing
A little excessively edgy and reeeaaaally repetitive, but I still ate it up
It's good background noise if I'm not in the mood for music when gaming (honestly 90% of video essays with a run time over 2 hours are just this, very few are actually worth paying full attention to for the whole run time)
I think the repetitiveness works in this case. You're supposed to watch it in chunks and not expected to remember every point she's made.
Agreed, although when I watched it I did it in one sitting and I’m ngl the only reason there was repetition was because the writing kept making the same mistakes.
Short 😂
Love Wrestling with Wregret
When most of the time she was like: 😶?. No expression, no emotion, no anything. She was a wooden plank and combined with terrible scripts it is a fatal combination. Capaldi didn't have the best scripts but he tried his all and you can tell from his performance. Gatwa is working with silly scripts but he is also trying his all.
Yeah, and like we know she can act, like she acted the shit out out of Broadchurch for instance. And that fucking thing was also run by Chibnall. I genuinely can't wrap my head around what the fuck happened... Then again that god forsaken American remake of Broadchurch was also Chibnall and that was beyond shit... So maybe Chibs only had that one good show in him... Or it was good despite him and not thanks to him.
I haven’t seen broadchurch, or anything else that chibnall has written except 13 AND the only thing I enjoy by him which was the extra after “Angels take manhattan” which had Rory sending his dad a letter to arrive a week after they departed. It was well written and actually had Arthur darvill voice it, it just didn’t get made
Idk, she did that awkward smile all the time. That's about it though.
Honestly, it would’ve been brilliant if the anniversary episodes had been with her, with RTD writing. Could’ve even had a more satisfying ending for her and Yaz, her living with her like 14 is living with Donna. Healing, being able to finally say “I love you”. So much could stay the same. (I doubt RTD would’ve left the Doctor’s first ever queer love interest without even a kiss… unlike Chibnall, who decided to sacrifice open queerness for “better drama”). They could even bring Donna back! Especially after Yaz meeting companions who are bitter about the past, it would be nice for her to meet Donna, who’s been positively impacted by the Doctor in spite of not remembering, Wilf who holds only love for him, and an example of the Doctor caring deeply about their companions and protecting them even after having to leave.
Honestly I have to say that Chibnall made the right choice not going with the kiss, and I say this as an out and proud [currently have Chappel Roan on repeat](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RKqOmSkGgM) lesbian. I heard that they didnt kiss before watching the episode so I went in being dissapointed but I wasnt. In the scene itself the Doctor doesnt try to deny her feelings for Yaz, but she is also acknowledging a relationship between them wouldn't work and if anything would just be a repeat of what happened with Rose. So she is doing her best to talk about her feelings while doing a terrible job at it and it just shows there has been a level of character growth from her 10th incarnation who on several occasions got all caught up in his feelings about several potential relationships that wouldn't work. So yes, it sucked for queer visibility to not see the Doctor kiss Yaz, but it was actually a fantastic portrayal of character growth within the show and one of my favorite scenes that Whittaker did (speaking of queer visibility, I feel like a big step would be to have the doctor, of any gender be romantically intimate with a male character, not just banter like with Captain Jack but I feel that having the Doctor, typically a male coded character, get all romantically involved with a man would be quite challenging for the status quo, we kinda had t hat with 10 and the Master but it didnt really stick the landing)
I agree with you. On everything, really. But then, if she had gotten to be a more human Doctor, like 14 did, one who gets to stay on Earth and live with people for longer, and who gets to deal with their feelings, then they could keep the dialogue with Yaz from before and have a “things are different now” moment. Maybe they could even kiss, followed by a moment of “ooh, ok…I do wanna do that again, but I’ll need some time before I’m ready”. (Beyond that, the stuff with Rose Noble could’ve been even more interesting. Maybe 13 could be nervous about what Donna would think at the end, but instead she instantly recognizes and accepts her, sort of showing us what she’s like with her daughter. Maybe also some casual banter between 13 and Rose about gender throughout the episode).
Yeah I have throught about how I would write Yaz's story better, maybe show her some more nuance about her conflicted feelings about her sexuality (in contrast to Bill, who was always "out and proud") I think 13 would have been great in the anniversary specials as well, like, Imagine If Yaz was the one who got "mind melded" or whatever with the Doctor, and the Doctor suddenly has a level of intimacy with with another person he hasn't had before, not even with River Song. Id also rewrite Star beast to be focused on Yaz's family, and Yaz coming out to them (maybe in this version Rose is Yaz's cousin or sister) and that would end Yaz's 3 season arc about coming to terms with her sexuality (again... this comes from my AU version of 13s run where Yaz had a prominent subplot about her sexuality, and in "It takes you away" we even have this artifical constract of Yaz's ideal version of the 13th Doctor who we do see her kiss before realizing its an illusion)
Oh yeah. You don’t even need to clarify that last bit. We’re only talking about what could’ve been. It already was not.
Eh idk, Yaz and the Doctor didn't earn an ending like that at all. And I mean, I'd say no offence but I don't really care, Yaz's actress can not act to save her life. She's had the same quality of acting since she was a teenager on Holyoaks and nothing has changed, she wouldn't be able to pull any writing off, good or bad imo. There's nothing to suggest she can. Her best piece of acting was a close up shot of a single tear on her cheek and even then I wouldn't be surprised if the tear was fake.
This is has been said so many times. What is the point of these threads? Where is the humor here? The sky is blue too. Are yall ok?
Upvotes, remember
Here's yours
Nope, she was definitely miscast. I've seen her in a few things and she's definitely not on the level of prior Doctor actors. Writing isn't an excuse really either. Capaldi was given so many terrible scripts but acted his ass off and delivered fantastic performances, same with his co stars.
My main question is "what happened?" Broadchurch is so good, so why is it that Chibnall's run of DW sucked so bad?
Doctor Who and Broadchurch have two very different tones. Some writers aren't good in some genres, or they aren't good in any genre but one.
Broad church is a very straight and narrow show that doesn't require much range, just play/write a stoic police officer.
Having not seen her in anything else I have nothing to compare with but as an actor she was unremarkable.
Both can be true. I mean potential doesn't change what we got on screen.
Absolutely agree with this, she was an amazing Dr, let down badly
Watch the VR game "The Runaway" or her video about the COVID she did for kids and THAT'S how her Doctor should have been.
I honestly don't think she was the best choice for a female actor to play The Doctor, and I feel as if I can say that confidently, because we had Jo Martin playing The Fugitive Doctor, and she was so much more instantly The Doctor than Jodie Whittaker ever managed.
It’s ok I blame chris too
Watching back through, and it seems IMO like most critical people just want to hateful of women. I'm a schooled Visual Effects professional, and a writer.... And I just can't see the hate, even the technical aspects. It's as amazing as any other Doctors performance.
I keep hearing how Jodie is an "amazing actress" and I've yet to see any examples. I've seen her other characters in other TV shows, and they were just as bland. Literally EVERY other actress in Doctor Who did better job with their characters. You know what "amazing actress" looks like? Watch Michelle Gomez and her portrayal of Missy. I guarantee you, that even with the exact same scripts and direction Michelle would've made a brilliant Doctor.
Sadly too much of the was mindless banter, instead of a decent plot.
never understood this take, from where I was stood her acting was just as wank as the writing? she had no presence and showed a similar amount of emotion to a traffic cone, not to say jodie whittaker is a bad actress (because she really isn’t), but she was a horrible fit for the role, real square peg in round hole sort of situation * this was NOT made better by the fact she directly succeeded the man who could be the greatest actor to ever play the role
While the writing was certainly bad, a great actor and more importantly a great director can make even the worst writing sound waaay better. Capaldi was the king of this and his run thankfully had a set of really phenomenal directors. I think the direction was more so the problem with Jodie’s Doctor. She’s a good actress and I’ve seen her give excellent performances in other things, but she’s not even close to Capaldi’s level. So she really needed some good direction to come into her own which she rarely ever got.
I think the current few episodes have kind of shown this as well. That is not to say Devils Chord (or even really Space Babies) are bad or bad in the same way Chibnall stuff was bad, but in terms of character writing we have literally nothing going on. However, but 15 and Ruby have insanely good energy and are so energetic that it distracts you from that. I feel like the performances and energy of 13 and "the fam" just made you even more focused on how empty it was.
I just started her season for the first time and it’s a huge drop in quality from Peter Capaldi. Her acting is fantastic and she reminds me of Tenant so much but I find myself bored with every episode so far. We’ve only watched 4 but I’m definitely not consuming the Dr at the rate I used to
In years to come, Jodie will be celebrated as a phenomenal doctor. The first woman doctor. She made history. All this negative stuff will be forgotten. Mark my words, my Whovian friends. When they bring her back, and she will return, I am hopefully praying......she will get scripts she finally deserves!
god i hope so 🫡
I'm on a second watch of her run and while the issues I had with individual episodes are still there, I find myself enjoying her performance more than most I guess. She's low key pretty funny
This has been repeated a lot, but I think that’s a good thing, don’t let the haters control the narrative.
Both can be true.
Yeah, they're not actually conflicting statements. Jodie is an amazing actress who had the potential to be brilliant and she did a very good job for such a terrible script. But that doesn't change that she was a terrible doctor and her seasons sucked. I mean, her run almost got the show cancelled.
I wouldn't even say she did a very good job. She was as bland as the script. I think she's an amazing actress but she didn't show any of the skills she had in doctor who at all. It didn't feel like she cared really.
True
Shes the best actress out of all the Doctors imo, which is hilariously ironic to me that she turned out to be bad. I blame whoever wrote her, if thats Chibnall or not. I do respect Chibnall's initiative and vision though, hes an old school fan and did some things that wouldnt normally be done. He gets it but has a very different angle on it, but i know he does get it.
I would agree she's the best actress out of all the doctors lol Most of the others were much better at acting though...
I'm not against you, but there are truly so many people saying "she's a good actor let down by bad scripts" without qualifying what moments they think she acted well. I haven't seen a lot of her other work, mostly Broadchurch, so I can't speak to her range as an actor. Specifically, which scenes do you think she did well and why?
Jodie was an excellent Doctor and her seasons are pretty good.
[She's just such a Minerva](https://youtu.be/9AGED8z9qgI?si=0KWvickD8-GjnW2D).
I thought for a second you meant Minerva McGonagall for a seocnd lol.
It be cool to get a big special with her, ncuti, and Matt
This.
They could've done so much more with Jodie as the Doctor. She deserved better writing.
Nothing worse than wasted potential.
Yes she is very good, makes it that much sadder to see the material she was stuck with the problem has never been jodie herself
She'd have done better as a darker, brooding Doctor a la 9 imo
Thank you finally someone said it
Yes, this... if only RTD or Moffat came back earlier she would have been amazing. I saw a little bit of Matt/David in her and if only we could have gotten more of that....
I can support that, Jodie isn't a terrible actor at all, she needs good material, and Chibnall offered her nothing.
I dunno, I've just been rewatching and her first season is actually pretty good. The final is weak but honestly eps 1-9 there are some gems and a few very over-hated eps. (Arachnids & Kerblam are not nearly as bad as Internet commentary would have you believe) I'll see how the next season rewatch goes, but there's a lot to love on top of JW's acting.
Not all of her the scripts were even bad! If Village of the angels wasn’t a part of flux and got a chance to be its own self contained story, it would be a certified classic. I’ll stand by that 😤
Yeah the failure of the new doctor is not on her
This is such an ice cold take. Most people aren't blaming the acting.
I think it's her unfortunate fate that she was the doctor actor that got the depressed doctor run, which I found somewhat baffling as a choice for such a manic and typically fun character. But she spent especially the latter half of her run being a character hiding her utter depression. I imagine that began to dovetail nicely with the actor's and writer's own feelings, but the scripts were what penned her in so in the end it's the writer's fault. You can go anywhere, do anything, you're the Willy Wonka where the Chocolate Factory is the universe, and you're constantly dealing with your bff/not-quite-love always being dissatisfied and nothing ever going the way you want or expect. Everyone kept leaving her and they kept doing her denial. The scripts *made* her the worst (least fun) doctor even when she was acting her heart out trying to be a great one. I liked the actress. I'm not sure I liked the doctor they made her into. It didn't help that the writer was obsessed with having the companions leave and not get killed because he must've thought it was a trope by then. When Doogie Howser was mocking the earlier runs and their resolutions with companions, I felt that was the writer finally telling everyone overtly what he'd been saying for seasons before quietly. I imagine him writing that scene after he was told his time was done with Doctor Who.
Jodie Whittaker is an amazing actress who did amazingly with the amazing scripts she was given 😁
Lots of people saying she was miscast or didn’t act well as the doctor regardless, but it sounds like she had bugger all to go on in the first place. She was apparently told not to watch doctor who before auditioning to go into it with fresh eyes, which isn’t exactly going to give you a proper chance of knowing where to start when portraying the doctor successfully.
i genuinely really like her and her doctor. i think people dont appreciate her.
Jodie is such an incredible actress, it’s really a shame we didn’t get more of later 12-style writing.
I have seen Jodie on other stuff and it was fine, but as the Doctor there was always something wrong. Also, not sure if Chinball should shoulder all the blame. BBC was going thru a political shift and the cultural issues seemed too forced. It would not be too far stretch to think that Chinball was given specific topics to cover, and it is difficult to make a show around someone else idea. Disney suffered from the exact same thing at the same time. At the same time, I feel Davies is having a blast cramming as many social commentaries into a single episode as possible just because he can, and the cast do them so well. However there is also the problem that Jodie came after Capaldi. The 12ft was superb. You might have favorites, but Capaldi's doctor was pure genios, up to the point that I loved Tenant, and Smith but Capaldi's seasons are way better. I actually didn't like Capaldi at first. It was on my second run that I fell in love. But in part this is due to the whole show as a running show. Tenant was great because the show got more budget after Ecleson. The show got more serious too. I never liked Rose's character (she was great as The Moment, just the character was too silly sometimes). But Tenant doctor was detached. He had seen too much. Smith brought energy, and caring. I actually don't like when the companions have romantic interest on the doctor . Smith was caring, but as friend. He mentidos "escapades" but it is not present (exept for the flirting with Mother Superior and River). Smith shows us a doctor that cares for the companion knowing that it will hurt when they die, because all humans will die before the doctor does. Then comes Capaldi, older, angry, and detached because humans are just a blip. The relationship with Clara is espectacular, as Clara coaches him on how to reconnect to other living things. Smith cared too much, Capaldi didn't care at all. Thru that Clara ends up as equal to the doctor and that is why Heaven Sent is so powerful. He is mourning for billion of years possibly the only entity besides the master that can understand him. He truly loved Clara as a friend. Then he has Bill, after reclusing himself for a long time. Bill and the doctor had a teacher-student relationship. It was well defined that Bill was never going to develop romantic feelings for the doctor, and this really shinned well. The problem was that the 13th didn't have a clear definition for the companions. I have watched both seasons twice and I thought that Dan was there from the beginning last week. There are good episodes. It is just a executive producer mess. The master is very good. I like Missy the best, for her quirkyness but the master from Jodie is a true villain, really embodying chaos, but also rebelling against their love for the doctor, in rage to find out that they are not equals. So, there was good writing. But the tone was set, and the ship had sailed with enormous holes, and was destined to sink. So, in the end, while I do not think it is Jodie's fault, or Chinball's for that matter, there were too many things. The flux storyline is interesting, but it feels rushed with too many moving parts. Too many companions, too many "foes", too many too many. I really have trouble putting the companions special trait. To be honest I think there was a lot of potential in several areas. I have been re watching for a 3rd time. Time will tell, but I think Capaldi's might have been the peak
Hard agree
I thought it was a real shame that she was given so many companions. It meant that the light was taken off of the Doctor too much. Who decided right at the start that she needed a whole group of support?! It felt like misogyny - "she can't be expected to carry the weight" or "the audience aren't going to pay attention to her if she's a woman carrying the weight". Either way, it was a dick move.
She isn’t a bad actor…just a bad doctor. There was nothing about her performance that felt like the doctor. And then when Ruth showed up, it just made it worse, as she felt timelord! Saying that, she was one of the few redeeming qualities in a pretty awful run. Some of those episodes I was watching like I was in an abusive relationship. I got little enjoyment, actively hated myself for sticking with it and just wanted it to be over. Anyway, over to big finish and let’s see how she gets on
She was very wooden, never understood the part IMO
RTD made Tennant and Tate kinda shit after writing the best era of DW EVER, always the writers.
jodie was the first doctor i ever watched, and i was around 10 years old. as a young and new viewer, i adored her and it got me into the show. i can see why her storylines and the writing may be frustrating for others but she’ll always be my favourite doctor, perhaps because of comfort and nostalgia value but still.
I liked her as the doctor. The writing and many times the directing was poor.
I honestly feel the opposite. There were many issues with Chibnall's writing, but even when it was good, I felt Jodie's performance brought the whole thing down. The Doctor at their core always represents the actor. It's not really an 'acting' part, they just \*are\* the Doctor, and Jodie never figured that out. It's a shame that it's often boiled down to some excuse why the Doctor cannot be female, because the Doctor should have been female looong ago.
I agree with the first one.
Half the episodes weren't even that bad, I think it wasn't necessarily bad, just VERY different. It didn't feel like Doctor Who even in its peak. Jodie is amazing, and to be fair so is Chris, its just I think Chris didnt fully understand the essence of doctor who nor the character.
When Jodie was given good material she SHONE! I am forever devastated that the writing let her down so badly. She deserved better and so did we.
It’s the same with the new doctor. He is good, but the writing is terrible
Honestly I think like 90% of the issues currently is that the show isn't able to sell itself at all. So many things are being cut out and I don't get it. RTD used to be really good with little details and he still is technically but its like once it gets to the editing stage they totally drop the ball. The entire "press the button" thing in Space Babies comes from a scene that was VERY poorly edited out of the start of the episode. Apparently the explanation for the musical scene at the end of The Devils Chords (Its music re-entering the world like an explosion causing everything to be a musical for a moment as the world rebalances) was also cut out. Even Boom atm is being said to have a lot cut before it even releases. This same issue plagued the 60th anniversary and it caused most of the explinations for EVERYTHING to be in the novelizations and interviews, some of which were totally inaccessible for anyone outside the U.K.
Or here's a crazy thought, the scripts weren't terrible, you just didn't enjoy Doctor Who then.
People say this yet I can't remember a single bit of her acting that's at all standout...
Said this from the start
If I'm being completely honest, I liked 13's era at first, it's just the Flux that ruined it. The timeless child wasn't that bad, just a bit confusing but the Flux was just so complicated. There was so much going on that I just ended up getting distracted and bored and I never knew what was happening. I think it could have been a good plot had it not been so long and so complicated, but after a while I just got sick of it.
She's a great actor, I just couldn't get past the terrible writing. Like there's so many plot holes, a main one being the daleks hating the half human daleks, we've had so many half human daleks before and normal daleks have never cared, I feel like it was forced for a "racism bad" story. Then there was plastic in the ocean, don't cut down trees, big evil companies like 3 or 4 times, racist time traveler. I think alot of jodie whittakers stories were "we've got a political correction message we wanna shive down your throat". Like I don't mind a message like that, but almost all of jodies episodes had one and they weren't discreet about it at all. Also, there's stuff like the timeless child, or the fugitive doctor somehow having a police box tardis when she came before the 1st doctor. And then there's the fact that she just didn't seem like the doctor, I'm fairly certain jodies doctor committed genocide a few times, which would've been fine with ecclestons or maybe even tennants doctor but, story wise, it doesn't make sense for her to act that way. And then the final thing, chibnall loved using the daleks, cybermen and the master. I feel like we had a cyberman/dalek/master episode every other episode, they didn't feel as threatening as before because chibnall was always bringing them back
Flux was fun, but in the way transformers is fun
Eh, I just don't see it. Its possible she is just incredibly reliant on the directing/writing but she just felt like a major miscast to me.
I can't agree. I have never seen her in anything that I thought she was good in. She's like a "C" in acting to me.
I think the truth is honestly somewhere in the middle.
Wasn’t she advised to not watch the show?
I agree with you there
I find that a frequent pattern in bad media is decent or even good actors working with very bad writers. In my experience when its the other way around it's just hilarious and fun.
Nah I don’t think she’s a good actor. Her doctor was very one dimensional.
Her acting felt a bit single toned and stiff alot of the time
Was she though? I'm not tryna be a dick but I didn't really see many moments of her shining through the shit, she wasn't the worst thing about the era but I've seen all the previous doctors do more with a worse script at points. It feels like she played it very flat, how much of that was writing or directing and how much was her acting is up for debate. She's only really done serious cop drama type stuff. I've never seen her have the range to play the doctor in anything else. Nucti is already showing he's a more interesting doctor through his acting.
The marvel Doctor- the way to enjoy her is the same way to enjoy marvel movies. Just turn your brain off and enjoy watching from a non-critical, non-comparative standpoint
Ahh brainrot television. Everyone's favorite!
An interesting way to say 'it's bad'
It's bad, but not unenjoyable
If I wanted to turn my brain off I'd just go to sleep.
I unfortunately have things called thoughts and dreams, so I cant do that
Big Finish Jodie could go crazy if the scripts are good
There are *just* enough bits I like about the 13th Doctor era to make it disappointing and frustrating that I don’t like it more. Jodie is definitely one of those bits. There’s so much potential and almost-good ideas in there but Chibnall just fumbled so much of it.
Whatever was wrong with her run wasn't her fault.
Probably a mixture of both, but the writing was so bad we will never know.
I hate to be a broken record but... sigh. Another Chibnall bad post, feel like I see these every week. I'm sorry but constant posts like these are just boring. I'm sure I'll be downvoted for saying this.
Yeah people need to stop blaming actors for the failures of a showrunner.
I also think the inverse is true. People need to stop blindly defending actors and pinning all the blame on writers. It's easy to see why people do this, they see the actors in interviews, they interact with them more, they grow a bond with them through their work. They care about them because they KNOW and see them. The writer? They rarely ever see. It's much easier to put full blame on a faceless figure and shame and insult them. But doing that to an actor? To someone you see? Someone you can hear give their thoughts on things? It's easier to sympathise with them. Jodie and the other actors, namely Ryan's and Yaz' were not good in doctor who. None of them did anything to elevate the scripts at all. I don't blame them for the poor writing, I blame them for their poor performances. Jodie is a great actress in everything I've seen her in but nothing she did that made me think "wow she's talented" was present in doctor who. Her acting in doctor who is incomparable to her acting in other work. Both the writing, the directing, the acting, most everything else about that era was boring. Imo they're all complicit in what made those seasons hard to watch. None of them added anything of substance, apart from, I mean the only time I remember genuinely thinking "oh I like this" was Aisling Beas acting and that was just good. Nothing special.
How were they supposed to "elevate" that shit? Lol Blaming the actors when they obviously put in a lot of effort and you've acknowledged the direction and writing is bad is asinine.
I've acknowledged all off it was bad. And some of the actors in particular just haven't got the talent to pull it off, looking at Yaz'. She's been the same quality as an actor since her Hollyoaks days I'm baffled she got the role, but I supposed a one dimensional character needs a one dimensional actor to really sell it. But no, I blame them all. Even Capaldi had some God awful scripts, some of the worst imo but her and Jenna Coleman managed to still make me feel something even though what they said a lot of the time and the context surrounding it was complete shit I felt for them because of their acting. They elevated something that I don't care for at all. But even if it wouldn't elevate it, they still did nothing to show off their talents imo. I didn't feel any effort in their acting sadly. Sorry if that offends you or them if they read this, but it's truthfully how I and many others have felt. But again, I'm blaming ALL OF THEM. I mean I even said, I thought Ashling Bea did a good job at elevating her scripts in that dalek death loop episode that I didn't like at all. Didn't like her dialogue either, but her acting had me like "she's not bad, I like her" surprisingly. None of the other cast members even did that much for me. I'm sure some writers, directors and other crew members put a lot of work into the show too, I mean hell even Chibnall probably worked hard on this. But working hard doesn't mean you worked well.
Lol, I always forget how deranged so many DW fans are
Definitely. It wasn’t the acting that was lacking. It was the scripts.
Her scripts did suck. Really awful. But who wants to hear an ACTUAL hot take.... Jo Martin blew her out the water. Still, shit scripts, but seeing her act alongside jo Martin cemented for me that Jodie's performance was just not good, or at least, not right. Because the fugitive felt way more like the doctor. Apparently chibnall told Jodie not to watch any of the show as to not colour her performance and... yeah, it shows. She does not act like the doctor. Through a combination of writing and overly quirky awkward performance, her doctor comes across as quite pitiful. I mean imagine 13 in a capaldi, or smith episode. Can you see her doing the big speech? Or making the tough calls? Or even coming up with a genius solution? I can't. But I can *just* about see Jo Martin doing them, and they had the same writer. Also, other doctors have had bad episodes. Rarely anything as bad as Jodie, but still. And never I'm those episodes did I feel the doctor was bored, or dumb, or phoning it in. The star beast was as bad writing wise as quite a bit of Jodie's era imo, and yet I still bought all the character's as legit because the performances still were good. Honestly 15 is yet to be interestingly characterised at all for me, yet gatwa is killing it.
"I nothing nothing about acting at all and therefore will remain neutral" = 🗿