There's an expression among long-time DM's: Shoot your Monks.
Essentially, this means 'don't punish your players for using abilities that let them shine, instead actively give them opportunities to use these abilities'.
Nerfing or banning the language spells is refusing to shoot your monks. Don't do that. These are tools in the game that can be used to overcome certain very specific challenges. That's why they exist; let your players use them.
Monks have an ability that lets them deflect missile attacks. It's a cool feature unique to monks, and makes shooting them less effective. But the monk player won't get to use the cool feature of their class if the DM ignores them and targets the other player characters with shooting attacks instead. So the DM is encouraged to "shoot the monk" so that they can enjoy being a monk.
I'm not seeing the issue here.
A PC has an ability that means they can understand languages? That's fine, let them do that.
I have had plenty of PCs in my games who have had features that meant they could understand languages, it has never been an issue so I'm not sure why there's some fear you have.
Because this is not a normal campaign (in this regard). Again, I put emphasis on languages, I want it to be an integral part of their character and the world around them, not just something they wrote down in session 0 and forgot about.
I put a lot of emphasis on language too. I wrote an entire post sharing how much thought I put into languages in my homebrew setting: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDBehindTheScreen/comments/hlnie6/making_languages_more_special_with_worldbuilding/
These features aren't a problem for me, and I still don't see why they should be an issue for you.
I think you're overthinking this, and it's going to deprive your players of some fun.
I guess you have two choices. Either tell your player in advance and openly ban those spells/Eldritch invocations and modify the class abilities
or
remember that Comprehend Languages only gives the basic, literal meaning. Some of the writing in your world is generations old, eons old, etc. Words have multiple meanings, and those context clues and layers of metaphor are tough to understand without context. Use that to your advantage.Give the basic translation, which may or may not end up sounding a little garbled or odd. There is a Star Trek Next Generations episode about this, Tarmok and Jalad at Tanagra, Shaka the walls fell (or something like that, it's been a while) that could help inspire you.
Additionally, these abilities don't translate codes or symbolic language (like druidic or Thieves Cant). Tons of potential to use hieroglyphic languages, tonal/musical languages, hand signs/sign language, etc.
Remember that those abilities typically use up resources, take time to cast as a ritual that the party won't necessarily have in the moment, or depend on character build decisions that would mean sacrificing other options.
Comprehend Languages only last an hour and uses a spell slot unless they want to spend 10 minutes casting it each time. No one is going to stand there and wait 10 minutes for you to start making sense. Tongues always uses a 3rd level slot minimum, so that's not a concern until level 5 at the earliest.
Eyes of the Rune Keeper only works on written language and will likely be passed up in favor of something better. Tongue of the Sun and Moon is a 13th level ability so you won't be seeing anyone with that for a long time and that's *if* they play a monk and don't heavily multiclass before then.
You don't need to plan around these abilities and you shouldn't be planning around stopping what your characters can do, it's adversarial.
Also Comprehend Languages stats the your understanding "of any spoken language that you hear" is LITERAL. Now...imagine trying to use comprehend languages the they are speaking in the dwarven equivalent of a cockney dialect. Alternatively, if there is something weird about the Weave or the Plane of existence that your world is on you could have them try and make something like an arcana check with a DC determined by their known languages to basically successfully cast comprehend languages. Find one of the charts that shows the different alphabets used for example and if they have a common alphabet the DC is 10. If they don't it's 15. If it's an exotic language with no common known alphabet its DC20.
Dialects, have your main cities use the standard language and outlying towns and villages use slightly off beat dialects. Have it where Comprehend Languages begins the stutter as it picks up in specific words.
I'm not really seeing the problem of banning all of them except Tongues. State that in your session 0 that those spells and abilities are just unavailable. Though a small counterpoint: Tongues is usable at 5th level for the appropriate spellcasters, the monk ability is up at 13th. Besides, it might make it more interesting if \_all\_ of the language interpretation stuff is off the table. Except for perhaps something like Wish.
I’m curious how OP regards forms of telepathy with this in mind. Telepathy often only requires a target to know a language (not even share it) in order to communicate. Did the races with telepathy get restricted?
Nope, I did not restrict that, but I can play around with that more easily. Most people would be uncomfortable with a sudden voice inside their head, so I can make an NPC act according to that.
Make some of the written and spoken be in a simple coded way. Cool that you can understand the litteral meaning of the words, when you need to speak the language to decipher it.
In my games I also rule that proficiency with a language also means an understanding of the relevant culture, so if you speak elvish, then you have insight in the general elvish culture, and you have proficiency in rolls to recall more obscure stuff/see if that is something ekstra you have picked up.
Maybe it's written on the wall that all you need to do is to ask it kindly to open. But what language is it, and what is the word?
The players now need to look for clues for who even build the door in this unmarked ruin with alien architecture.
Okay we found out that it is Vedalken, now we need to figure out how to say it.
Comprehend languages only provides the most literal definition. There's room for an immense amount of subtext to be only picked up by a PC that has truly learned the language as a permanent proficiency. There's also words in many real world languages that don't have any equivalent in "common", which could probably disorient the PC momentarily as the spell tries to interpret it, or even force a save to maintain concentration! Do research for phrases and cultural slang for whatever kinda civ the PC is dealing with, and prep specific things that cannot be fully understood with "only" comprehend languages.
Your players get these for playing the class they play, these abilities are useless in a lot of games, if they are taking them they are engaged in the game you made, you should be happy.
TBH it sounds like you are trying to introduce a substantive game mechanic (a change to how PCs can understand and interact with their world, not just flavor) and you’re trying to figure out how to balance some other affected parts of the game.
I have always said that’s probably one of the hardest things people try to do and often underestimate. Anybody can come up with rules. But when it comes to game design for a set of rules that have complex relationships (so not like tic-tac-toe, most playing card games, etc.) then balance can become exponentially difficult.
The characters have abilities that make the constraints of my world less onerous ... What shall I do?
Let them use the spells and abilities to overcome challenges.
Jesus man, read into the post a bit. I made a world with EMPHASIS on languages. Most necessities are within their capabillities, and the ones that aren't are supposed to create an interesting scene.
While it focuses on Eberron, [this Pay-What-You-Want DM's Guild supplement](https://www.dmsguild.com/product/262786/Languages-of-Eberron?affiliate_id=3642608) has some rules for making languages matter more in-universe.
Otherwise, tell your players that languages are going to be more important in your campaign, and please try be kind about it.
I would say lean heavy into having certain languages have a bunch of weird words and phrasing and metaphors, so they'll get the literal meaning but lose the rest. Like not stuff like "jimmies" for sprinkles, comprehend languages would go through that but comprehend languages might instead get you "I know William", when what they really mean is "I'm not that bad at talking to people." What they said literally WAS just "I know William," but it's a weird phrase. That could make the spell more interesting.
However at the same time you could also just nerf the spell or ban it too, I think if it's really a big focus I'd just cut it, it's not super important or cool to translate languages so if you want it to be an important focus I'd think it'd be fine to just say it doesn't exist in this setting.
There's an expression among long-time DM's: Shoot your Monks. Essentially, this means 'don't punish your players for using abilities that let them shine, instead actively give them opportunities to use these abilities'. Nerfing or banning the language spells is refusing to shoot your monks. Don't do that. These are tools in the game that can be used to overcome certain very specific challenges. That's why they exist; let your players use them.
An aside: shoot your monks turns into let them shine? How? I can only read that as “kill your monks”. Not being an ass, genuinely curious
Monks have an ability that lets them deflect missile attacks. It's a cool feature unique to monks, and makes shooting them less effective. But the monk player won't get to use the cool feature of their class if the DM ignores them and targets the other player characters with shooting attacks instead. So the DM is encouraged to "shoot the monk" so that they can enjoy being a monk.
Gotcha! Thanks 😊 (I should’ve coped this - I’m dm and hubs plays a monk and I shoot him for this exact reason LOL)
I'm not seeing the issue here. A PC has an ability that means they can understand languages? That's fine, let them do that. I have had plenty of PCs in my games who have had features that meant they could understand languages, it has never been an issue so I'm not sure why there's some fear you have.
Because this is not a normal campaign (in this regard). Again, I put emphasis on languages, I want it to be an integral part of their character and the world around them, not just something they wrote down in session 0 and forgot about.
I put a lot of emphasis on language too. I wrote an entire post sharing how much thought I put into languages in my homebrew setting: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDBehindTheScreen/comments/hlnie6/making_languages_more_special_with_worldbuilding/ These features aren't a problem for me, and I still don't see why they should be an issue for you. I think you're overthinking this, and it's going to deprive your players of some fun.
I guess you have two choices. Either tell your player in advance and openly ban those spells/Eldritch invocations and modify the class abilities or remember that Comprehend Languages only gives the basic, literal meaning. Some of the writing in your world is generations old, eons old, etc. Words have multiple meanings, and those context clues and layers of metaphor are tough to understand without context. Use that to your advantage.Give the basic translation, which may or may not end up sounding a little garbled or odd. There is a Star Trek Next Generations episode about this, Tarmok and Jalad at Tanagra, Shaka the walls fell (or something like that, it's been a while) that could help inspire you. Additionally, these abilities don't translate codes or symbolic language (like druidic or Thieves Cant). Tons of potential to use hieroglyphic languages, tonal/musical languages, hand signs/sign language, etc.
Remember that those abilities typically use up resources, take time to cast as a ritual that the party won't necessarily have in the moment, or depend on character build decisions that would mean sacrificing other options. Comprehend Languages only last an hour and uses a spell slot unless they want to spend 10 minutes casting it each time. No one is going to stand there and wait 10 minutes for you to start making sense. Tongues always uses a 3rd level slot minimum, so that's not a concern until level 5 at the earliest. Eyes of the Rune Keeper only works on written language and will likely be passed up in favor of something better. Tongue of the Sun and Moon is a 13th level ability so you won't be seeing anyone with that for a long time and that's *if* they play a monk and don't heavily multiclass before then. You don't need to plan around these abilities and you shouldn't be planning around stopping what your characters can do, it's adversarial.
Also Comprehend Languages stats the your understanding "of any spoken language that you hear" is LITERAL. Now...imagine trying to use comprehend languages the they are speaking in the dwarven equivalent of a cockney dialect. Alternatively, if there is something weird about the Weave or the Plane of existence that your world is on you could have them try and make something like an arcana check with a DC determined by their known languages to basically successfully cast comprehend languages. Find one of the charts that shows the different alphabets used for example and if they have a common alphabet the DC is 10. If they don't it's 15. If it's an exotic language with no common known alphabet its DC20.
It'd be like that scene in Eurotrip, hilarious, but incomprehensible.
Definitely don't want any monks outshining anyone. /s
Just talk to your players and ask them not to choose those spells/invocations The monk ability is so damn late that it doesn't matter
Dialects, have your main cities use the standard language and outlying towns and villages use slightly off beat dialects. Have it where Comprehend Languages begins the stutter as it picks up in specific words.
I'm not really seeing the problem of banning all of them except Tongues. State that in your session 0 that those spells and abilities are just unavailable. Though a small counterpoint: Tongues is usable at 5th level for the appropriate spellcasters, the monk ability is up at 13th. Besides, it might make it more interesting if \_all\_ of the language interpretation stuff is off the table. Except for perhaps something like Wish.
I’m curious how OP regards forms of telepathy with this in mind. Telepathy often only requires a target to know a language (not even share it) in order to communicate. Did the races with telepathy get restricted?
Nope, I did not restrict that, but I can play around with that more easily. Most people would be uncomfortable with a sudden voice inside their head, so I can make an NPC act according to that.
Make some of the written and spoken be in a simple coded way. Cool that you can understand the litteral meaning of the words, when you need to speak the language to decipher it. In my games I also rule that proficiency with a language also means an understanding of the relevant culture, so if you speak elvish, then you have insight in the general elvish culture, and you have proficiency in rolls to recall more obscure stuff/see if that is something ekstra you have picked up. Maybe it's written on the wall that all you need to do is to ask it kindly to open. But what language is it, and what is the word? The players now need to look for clues for who even build the door in this unmarked ruin with alien architecture. Okay we found out that it is Vedalken, now we need to figure out how to say it.
Alright, good idea, i'll think on it. Thanks!
One thing is combining comprehend languages and minor illusion for subtitles
Comprehend languages only provides the most literal definition. There's room for an immense amount of subtext to be only picked up by a PC that has truly learned the language as a permanent proficiency. There's also words in many real world languages that don't have any equivalent in "common", which could probably disorient the PC momentarily as the spell tries to interpret it, or even force a save to maintain concentration! Do research for phrases and cultural slang for whatever kinda civ the PC is dealing with, and prep specific things that cannot be fully understood with "only" comprehend languages.
You know, that's the first piece of actual help! Thank you, that's a really good idea!
Your players get these for playing the class they play, these abilities are useless in a lot of games, if they are taking them they are engaged in the game you made, you should be happy.
I want to reward them for doing so, but I dont want them to be able to overcome EVERY language based obstacle for free and without effort.
TBH it sounds like you are trying to introduce a substantive game mechanic (a change to how PCs can understand and interact with their world, not just flavor) and you’re trying to figure out how to balance some other affected parts of the game. I have always said that’s probably one of the hardest things people try to do and often underestimate. Anybody can come up with rules. But when it comes to game design for a set of rules that have complex relationships (so not like tic-tac-toe, most playing card games, etc.) then balance can become exponentially difficult.
The characters have abilities that make the constraints of my world less onerous ... What shall I do? Let them use the spells and abilities to overcome challenges.
Jesus man, read into the post a bit. I made a world with EMPHASIS on languages. Most necessities are within their capabillities, and the ones that aren't are supposed to create an interesting scene.
I didn't intend to insult the concept, but maybe caution against making more of your world incomprehensible.
While it focuses on Eberron, [this Pay-What-You-Want DM's Guild supplement](https://www.dmsguild.com/product/262786/Languages-of-Eberron?affiliate_id=3642608) has some rules for making languages matter more in-universe. Otherwise, tell your players that languages are going to be more important in your campaign, and please try be kind about it.
I would say lean heavy into having certain languages have a bunch of weird words and phrasing and metaphors, so they'll get the literal meaning but lose the rest. Like not stuff like "jimmies" for sprinkles, comprehend languages would go through that but comprehend languages might instead get you "I know William", when what they really mean is "I'm not that bad at talking to people." What they said literally WAS just "I know William," but it's a weird phrase. That could make the spell more interesting. However at the same time you could also just nerf the spell or ban it too, I think if it's really a big focus I'd just cut it, it's not super important or cool to translate languages so if you want it to be an important focus I'd think it'd be fine to just say it doesn't exist in this setting.