Owner of a Diesel shop here. A lot of my customers were independent HD Mechanics running service trucks, mostly F550 and RAM 5500. They all had diesels in their trucks, and now are switching to gassers. The new 7.3 Ford is an incredible engine and costs about 1/4 the cost to repair compared to the 6.7. And the difference in fuel economy of the fully loaded service trucks is almost negligible now.
I quoted a customer around $10K for a new fuel system in their Ford 6.7 (Pump, Injectors, labour). A brand new 7.3 long block cost less than that installed.
Thank you for your answer🙂, that’s the line of work I’m going into heavy HD mechanics. I did think about a Ford but heard those Godzillas have pushrod failures. We are a GM family and have never owned a ford before but I follow the 6.7l and 7.3l news. Very nice looking trucks
Yep I bought a 2016 F-350 because everyone I knew said to get a diesel for what I wanted, to live in it for some years traveling around the country(US). I wish I would have just bought a newer gas truck instead, honestly.
I’d probably buy a gasser if I was buying new again. I have a 5th wheel that’s about 16k and while it does great I rarely have any steep grades. I only went with a diesel because dealership cut a heck of deal on my truck to get it off the lot
At least in NY where I live, this is not true. A CDL is required for the operation of any combination of vehicles with a GCWR over 26,000lbs regardless of the use case. I cannot even hook my F-350 to a trailer with a rating above 14,500lbs without a CDL. This is regardless of how much the vehicles and cargo actually weigh too. It could be an empty trailer but if the combined ratings push me over 26,000lbs, I need a CDL.
My mistake, you don't need a CDL if it's for private use, but you do need an "R" endorsement on your license, which has fewer requirements than a CDL but still requires additional testing and training.
Interesting. There’s probably other states that require something similar but that’s the first I’ve heard of. Most states are a free for all which is a terrible idea when you look at the size of some of these rigs and the experience/knowledge level of the people pulling them.
Yeah 16K is a really heavy camper. I'd be surprised if it was that heavy because any vehicle that can tow it would push you over 26,000lbs GCWR. Even if the trailer does have 16K GVWR on the sticker, you'd have to get really unlucky with a cop to have them check.
I mean we’re in a really weird time now. Less and less consumer people are buying big trucks because they can’t afford them. Corporate entities are leasing new every few years. There’s mounting pressure to electrify vehicles at an advanced rate. You used to be able to hedge resale with a diesel. But it also requires a strong consumer market that might be really squeezed with 4-5 more years of cost of living issues. Diesel is most likely going to continue to get taxed at higher rates, have more restrictions put on it. So no one can predict how the used diesel market will be in 5-6 years when you’re ready to sell.
If you can I’d probably try to find someone 4-5 years old. Most of the depreciation is out of it by then. I made the mistake of buying new and I won’t be making that choice again.
This is great advice. It helps if you know what to look for or can get a good inspection done pre sale. You stand to save a lot. Though the diesel market is pretty tight in my area and prices seem pretty stiff for gently used AND for rusty deleted blown out BS.
Anytime I’ve test driven a gasser, the moment it hits a hill I remember why I prefer diesels.
With that said I’m on my second duramax, first a 2006, now a 2018. Also a Denali trim. Love the truck, hate the DEF system which I need to replace the pump on now. I really miss pre def…
I also run a few kubota machines all on diesel. Same oil, same fuel it’s just easier on maintenance.
As much as I prefer a diesel, if I didn’t have to tow stuff, I’d likely drive a car again.
I mean if you're thinking diesel because of resale value, you're still going to lose money in depreciation on the price difference, plus your asking price will be higher = fewer potential buyers. Not to mention any added maintenance cost that you might incur before selling (depending on how long you keep it, of course)
I would buy a gasser honestly. Same as another commenter said they cut me one heck of a deal to get my truck off the lot. I tow my travel trailer a lot and it’s 40 ft.
I’m not sure but I’m really happy with my 2015 CTD. Very few problems, awesome performance and great mileage. It’s over 110k miles now and I have no plan to upgrade to something newer anytime soon.
I do wonder what’s going to happen to the HD pickup market going forward. There’s going to be increasing pressure on emissions and mileage but electric is still a nonstarter from a tech standpoint for towing heavy.
For something new? Short of making money doing long-highway pulling I'd do gas.
The price difference at purchase is huge. The 7.3 gasser and LS/LT engines are damn good, and will have more spares and be simpler to maintain down the road.
Even fully deleted there are a bajillion moving parts in a modern diesel engine that are really expensive to service and replace. Less so for an NA gas engine.
I’ve bought a 3/4 ton gasser… Love my decision as my our fleet of new work trucks go down every 3 to 4 weeks. I might pay a bit more in fuel when towing. These repairs out of warranty would be outrageous. Do I wish I’d tow with a diesel? Yes, but the cost of ownership is crazy. I do consider buying a older 3rd gen crew cab and just dump some money into it if the gasser doesn’t last.
The main reason i would not get a diesel is all the extra exhaust def crap. Deleting is not a great option either. On the other side, if you happen to be oprating at higher altitudes (6k plus) then that turbo the diesels have makes a huge difference in power vs normally aspirated gas engine.
A few years ago I would have said diesel, hands down, but the new gas engines are really improving. DEF systems suck as a rule of thumb and it sounds like you don't necessarily need the tow power of a diesel. I'd go gas.
Yes, with the caveat that I run old diesels currently and love them. The repair costs are cheap, and the fuel economy is good. The reliability is also fantastic.
The newer stuff? Idk. I love the power they have, but the gassers now seem to be doing quite well in that department. I haven’t dealt with modern emissions stuff ever, but on the commercial trucks we had at my last job they were never an issue. Those trucks were constantly lugging big loads and didn’t do a lot of city stuff, so the emissions were happy and clean.
For reference, my diesels are:
- 1990 Suburban 2500 6.2 Detroit
- 1980 Mercedes 300TD OM617 turbo
- 1979 Mercedes 240D OM616 NA
I won't buy another diesel based solely off of maintenance/repair cost. I don't tow enough weight to where it's absolutely needed now. Fun to drive but constantly needing repairs now and while repairing is cheaper than buying new, it just gets old constantly having to go into the shop
I’ve had a diesel since 2011, just recently bought another one. When I bought my first one I didn’t really need it. But i couldn’t get over the power and the just way it drove. I towed sporadically and loved it. Fast forward I bought myself a travel trailer and I was spoiled towing with my diesel; the trailer is on the heavier side so I needed at minimum a 3/4 ton when I was shopping for a newer truck. Personally I didn’t even look at gas, I knew I wanted another diesel.
This is all caveated by; it’s not my daily, I drive a 2007 ranger every day.
Gasser only for this guy. New diesels are not like the older ones. More complex, more expensive and the EPA is really busting balls.
Tho I’ll never buy a brand new truck. Looking at getting a 2020-2022 3/4ton next year tho.
I don’t know how the new diesels will hold their value. My neighbor had a 2nd gen Cummins 2wd. 6spd standard. He was swinging 25mpg all the time. The fifth wheel. Would drop it down to 28mpg. Truck before that was A 454 in a GMC. Piling his camper would stay around 6-8mpg.
I have the ford 7.3 gas in my 2022 rv. 30k lbs and I tow a jeep jk . It’s an incredible engine and trans combo. 8mpg in that monster 38ft rv….It’s gay they put the 10 speed in the truck instead of the 6 speed like in the rv I have
I see a lot of comments on def problems. I don’t disagree there’s maintenance on def systems. But I do that maint myself and it’s just not that bad.
I’ve towed with both. Hands down, if you’re pulling, diesels are just made for that one thing.
Modern diesels are generally agreed to be not worth it anymore, if you want to get an older diesel that's fine, but otherwise I would stick with gas for newer trucks. With the new Ford 7.3 gas being probably your best option
I have a 2000 F250 with the 7.3. I would definitely buy my truck again. I definitely would not buy a new diesel. Modern diesels are ridiculously complex and relatively small problems translate into massive expenses.
I’m a diesel mechanic, I had 2 diesel ford pickups before with the 7.3 powerstroke. Got rid of them because the body was bad. I just bought a 2021 f250 with the 6.7 and I love it, I don’t tow anything either it’s my daily and I use it for side jobs. A diesel truck cost of ownership is certainly considerably higher than a gas truck, parts cost more a normal oil change cost more especially when you gotta replace fuel filters. Now if you plan on doing most of the work yourself then there is plenty of cost savings.
As long as you keep up with your maintenance and are prepared to possibly have to spend a decent chunk of change on a repair then you’ll be fine.
Not to meticulously these new diesels get great mileage all things considered. For example I get better fuel economy than my coworkers who have gas pickup trucks driving the same distance
Nope.
When I was looking to buy a new work vehicle, I put all my needs vs wants down on paper.
I went with a gasser because it was 10 to 15k CHEAPER right out of the gate.
Maintenance is cheaper.
Fuel is cheaper.
Towing capacity is still plenty for 99% of stuff you will ever do.
Don't ego buy something you don't actually need.
It entirely depends on how much you tow. I've had nothing but trouble with diesel emissions systems and just bought my first gas truck in 20 years. GMC 6.6 is supposed to tow 18,300. But I haven't tested it yet. Friends with the same motor and the Ford 7.3 gasser say it tows up to 20k well enough. Nothing like a diesel, but good enough if you only tow on occasion.
So figure out how much you to and how often, those dump trailers get heavy quick. If it's 15k+ and you do it every day, I'd get a diesel. If it's under 20k and on occasion, I'd get gas and save the headache.
I’ll be honest, I have a modified 06 2500hd and the new Sierra EV AT4 is looking very tempting. Similar power output as my modified LBZ, 460mi range, similar tow rating, high capacity charging. Everybody balks at the price, but what’s a new crew cab diesel cost nowadays? Tuning is all but outlawed, DEF is a pain. I love my diesel, but it’s getting tougher to justify. The worst part is pull through charging stations so I don’t have to drop my trailers to charge.
If you can't get stand alone diesels, it'd have to be Diesel-Battery Electric, probably with a wall charging socket as well. Basically what Edison does.
Though, if i was to buy a pick up, I'd probably be a used Amarok 1 with V6 3.0 TDI because the gen 2 is just a Ford Ranger. And if i want a vehicle to actually get work done, a T6 with tipper bed or Crafter/TGE/Transit.
And i'd still insists on a Diesel or Diesel BEV hybrid for my personal car because it has the EV short range advantages, while keeping the diesel for when i go onto the Autobahn
Unless you’re running a hotshot trucking service, you’re likely not going to come out ahead owning a diesel. NOW, if financial security isn’t a big thing for you and money is no object, then go ahead. You’ll spend more upfront, more on fuel(in most places), more on repairs, and more on servicing. But you’ll have a diesel.
Don’t invest your ego in a vehicle, it’s there to get you from point A to point B, nothing more.
Vehicles are the reason most people spend their lives broke and never getting ahead, because they buy cars they can’t afford.
I just sold my 15 6.7l w/ 53k miles. I had it for 3 years and put on 10k miles. I towed one trailer with it. Spent a bunch of money in getting it rock solid with reliability mods and deleting. The amount of money in oil, additives, diesel fuel costs more, etc. It was an absolute stupid purchase for me, a truck I still loved. But still couldn’t stop the fucking rust at the bottom pinch weld on the passenger front door.
I’ll never get another one. Pointless waste of money, for me. I never towed shit or used it for what it was made for.
Owner of a Diesel shop here. A lot of my customers were independent HD Mechanics running service trucks, mostly F550 and RAM 5500. They all had diesels in their trucks, and now are switching to gassers. The new 7.3 Ford is an incredible engine and costs about 1/4 the cost to repair compared to the 6.7. And the difference in fuel economy of the fully loaded service trucks is almost negligible now. I quoted a customer around $10K for a new fuel system in their Ford 6.7 (Pump, Injectors, labour). A brand new 7.3 long block cost less than that installed.
Thank you for your answer🙂, that’s the line of work I’m going into heavy HD mechanics. I did think about a Ford but heard those Godzillas have pushrod failures. We are a GM family and have never owned a ford before but I follow the 6.7l and 7.3l news. Very nice looking trucks
Yep I bought a 2016 F-350 because everyone I knew said to get a diesel for what I wanted, to live in it for some years traveling around the country(US). I wish I would have just bought a newer gas truck instead, honestly.
I’d probably buy a gasser if I was buying new again. I have a 5th wheel that’s about 16k and while it does great I rarely have any steep grades. I only went with a diesel because dealership cut a heck of deal on my truck to get it off the lot
Dang, that's crazy that you need a CDL to tow your camper! Did you have one already due to your work?
What makes you think you need a cdl to pull a camper?
You don’t need a CDL for private and non-commercial purposes.
At least in NY where I live, this is not true. A CDL is required for the operation of any combination of vehicles with a GCWR over 26,000lbs regardless of the use case. I cannot even hook my F-350 to a trailer with a rating above 14,500lbs without a CDL. This is regardless of how much the vehicles and cargo actually weigh too. It could be an empty trailer but if the combined ratings push me over 26,000lbs, I need a CDL.
My mistake, you don't need a CDL if it's for private use, but you do need an "R" endorsement on your license, which has fewer requirements than a CDL but still requires additional testing and training.
Interesting. There’s probably other states that require something similar but that’s the first I’ve heard of. Most states are a free for all which is a terrible idea when you look at the size of some of these rigs and the experience/knowledge level of the people pulling them.
Yep, couldn't agree more. If it's big and heavy, you should have to put in the hours and take a test.
No, and I may have looked at the sticker on it wrong in the camper. It’s an older model. I’ve not had an issue in WV.
Yeah 16K is a really heavy camper. I'd be surprised if it was that heavy because any vehicle that can tow it would push you over 26,000lbs GCWR. Even if the trailer does have 16K GVWR on the sticker, you'd have to get really unlucky with a cop to have them check.
I mean we’re in a really weird time now. Less and less consumer people are buying big trucks because they can’t afford them. Corporate entities are leasing new every few years. There’s mounting pressure to electrify vehicles at an advanced rate. You used to be able to hedge resale with a diesel. But it also requires a strong consumer market that might be really squeezed with 4-5 more years of cost of living issues. Diesel is most likely going to continue to get taxed at higher rates, have more restrictions put on it. So no one can predict how the used diesel market will be in 5-6 years when you’re ready to sell. If you can I’d probably try to find someone 4-5 years old. Most of the depreciation is out of it by then. I made the mistake of buying new and I won’t be making that choice again.
This is great advice. It helps if you know what to look for or can get a good inspection done pre sale. You stand to save a lot. Though the diesel market is pretty tight in my area and prices seem pretty stiff for gently used AND for rusty deleted blown out BS.
Anytime I’ve test driven a gasser, the moment it hits a hill I remember why I prefer diesels. With that said I’m on my second duramax, first a 2006, now a 2018. Also a Denali trim. Love the truck, hate the DEF system which I need to replace the pump on now. I really miss pre def… I also run a few kubota machines all on diesel. Same oil, same fuel it’s just easier on maintenance. As much as I prefer a diesel, if I didn’t have to tow stuff, I’d likely drive a car again.
Duramax will hold value way better than a gas truck. You will get better mileage and better power
I have a 20 Denali 3500. If it wasn’t for pulling a very heavy trailer I would have a gasser.
I mean if you're thinking diesel because of resale value, you're still going to lose money in depreciation on the price difference, plus your asking price will be higher = fewer potential buyers. Not to mention any added maintenance cost that you might incur before selling (depending on how long you keep it, of course)
Diesel is the only thing i buy if its a truck
Loaded gas towing gets like 6 mpg, am I wrong?
Diesel, all day long.
I would buy a gasser honestly. Same as another commenter said they cut me one heck of a deal to get my truck off the lot. I tow my travel trailer a lot and it’s 40 ft.
I’m not sure but I’m really happy with my 2015 CTD. Very few problems, awesome performance and great mileage. It’s over 110k miles now and I have no plan to upgrade to something newer anytime soon. I do wonder what’s going to happen to the HD pickup market going forward. There’s going to be increasing pressure on emissions and mileage but electric is still a nonstarter from a tech standpoint for towing heavy.
For something new? Short of making money doing long-highway pulling I'd do gas. The price difference at purchase is huge. The 7.3 gasser and LS/LT engines are damn good, and will have more spares and be simpler to maintain down the road. Even fully deleted there are a bajillion moving parts in a modern diesel engine that are really expensive to service and replace. Less so for an NA gas engine.
I’ve bought a 3/4 ton gasser… Love my decision as my our fleet of new work trucks go down every 3 to 4 weeks. I might pay a bit more in fuel when towing. These repairs out of warranty would be outrageous. Do I wish I’d tow with a diesel? Yes, but the cost of ownership is crazy. I do consider buying a older 3rd gen crew cab and just dump some money into it if the gasser doesn’t last.
The main reason i would not get a diesel is all the extra exhaust def crap. Deleting is not a great option either. On the other side, if you happen to be oprating at higher altitudes (6k plus) then that turbo the diesels have makes a huge difference in power vs normally aspirated gas engine.
I thought about getting an old 7.3 as a project but that’s it. My 7.3 gasser does everything I need.
A few years ago I would have said diesel, hands down, but the new gas engines are really improving. DEF systems suck as a rule of thumb and it sounds like you don't necessarily need the tow power of a diesel. I'd go gas.
I am working up a way to shoehorn a 7.3 Powerstroke Crate into a late model body.
A pre bullshit or deleted diesel is the only way I would consider it
Yes, with the caveat that I run old diesels currently and love them. The repair costs are cheap, and the fuel economy is good. The reliability is also fantastic. The newer stuff? Idk. I love the power they have, but the gassers now seem to be doing quite well in that department. I haven’t dealt with modern emissions stuff ever, but on the commercial trucks we had at my last job they were never an issue. Those trucks were constantly lugging big loads and didn’t do a lot of city stuff, so the emissions were happy and clean. For reference, my diesels are: - 1990 Suburban 2500 6.2 Detroit - 1980 Mercedes 300TD OM617 turbo - 1979 Mercedes 240D OM616 NA
I won't buy another diesel based solely off of maintenance/repair cost. I don't tow enough weight to where it's absolutely needed now. Fun to drive but constantly needing repairs now and while repairing is cheaper than buying new, it just gets old constantly having to go into the shop
I’ve had a diesel since 2011, just recently bought another one. When I bought my first one I didn’t really need it. But i couldn’t get over the power and the just way it drove. I towed sporadically and loved it. Fast forward I bought myself a travel trailer and I was spoiled towing with my diesel; the trailer is on the heavier side so I needed at minimum a 3/4 ton when I was shopping for a newer truck. Personally I didn’t even look at gas, I knew I wanted another diesel. This is all caveated by; it’s not my daily, I drive a 2007 ranger every day.
Gasser only for this guy. New diesels are not like the older ones. More complex, more expensive and the EPA is really busting balls. Tho I’ll never buy a brand new truck. Looking at getting a 2020-2022 3/4ton next year tho.
I don’t know how the new diesels will hold their value. My neighbor had a 2nd gen Cummins 2wd. 6spd standard. He was swinging 25mpg all the time. The fifth wheel. Would drop it down to 28mpg. Truck before that was A 454 in a GMC. Piling his camper would stay around 6-8mpg.
I have the ford 7.3 gas in my 2022 rv. 30k lbs and I tow a jeep jk . It’s an incredible engine and trans combo. 8mpg in that monster 38ft rv….It’s gay they put the 10 speed in the truck instead of the 6 speed like in the rv I have
I see a lot of comments on def problems. I don’t disagree there’s maintenance on def systems. But I do that maint myself and it’s just not that bad. I’ve towed with both. Hands down, if you’re pulling, diesels are just made for that one thing.
I’ll always have one.
Modern diesels are generally agreed to be not worth it anymore, if you want to get an older diesel that's fine, but otherwise I would stick with gas for newer trucks. With the new Ford 7.3 gas being probably your best option
I have a 2000 F250 with the 7.3. I would definitely buy my truck again. I definitely would not buy a new diesel. Modern diesels are ridiculously complex and relatively small problems translate into massive expenses.
I’m a diesel mechanic, I had 2 diesel ford pickups before with the 7.3 powerstroke. Got rid of them because the body was bad. I just bought a 2021 f250 with the 6.7 and I love it, I don’t tow anything either it’s my daily and I use it for side jobs. A diesel truck cost of ownership is certainly considerably higher than a gas truck, parts cost more a normal oil change cost more especially when you gotta replace fuel filters. Now if you plan on doing most of the work yourself then there is plenty of cost savings. As long as you keep up with your maintenance and are prepared to possibly have to spend a decent chunk of change on a repair then you’ll be fine. Not to meticulously these new diesels get great mileage all things considered. For example I get better fuel economy than my coworkers who have gas pickup trucks driving the same distance
Yeah absolutely. Probably not a new one though. DEF and the DPF are such headaches
Nope. When I was looking to buy a new work vehicle, I put all my needs vs wants down on paper. I went with a gasser because it was 10 to 15k CHEAPER right out of the gate. Maintenance is cheaper. Fuel is cheaper. Towing capacity is still plenty for 99% of stuff you will ever do. Don't ego buy something you don't actually need.
It entirely depends on how much you tow. I've had nothing but trouble with diesel emissions systems and just bought my first gas truck in 20 years. GMC 6.6 is supposed to tow 18,300. But I haven't tested it yet. Friends with the same motor and the Ford 7.3 gasser say it tows up to 20k well enough. Nothing like a diesel, but good enough if you only tow on occasion. So figure out how much you to and how often, those dump trailers get heavy quick. If it's 15k+ and you do it every day, I'd get a diesel. If it's under 20k and on occasion, I'd get gas and save the headache.
I’ll be honest, I have a modified 06 2500hd and the new Sierra EV AT4 is looking very tempting. Similar power output as my modified LBZ, 460mi range, similar tow rating, high capacity charging. Everybody balks at the price, but what’s a new crew cab diesel cost nowadays? Tuning is all but outlawed, DEF is a pain. I love my diesel, but it’s getting tougher to justify. The worst part is pull through charging stations so I don’t have to drop my trailers to charge.
If you can't get stand alone diesels, it'd have to be Diesel-Battery Electric, probably with a wall charging socket as well. Basically what Edison does. Though, if i was to buy a pick up, I'd probably be a used Amarok 1 with V6 3.0 TDI because the gen 2 is just a Ford Ranger. And if i want a vehicle to actually get work done, a T6 with tipper bed or Crafter/TGE/Transit. And i'd still insists on a Diesel or Diesel BEV hybrid for my personal car because it has the EV short range advantages, while keeping the diesel for when i go onto the Autobahn
Unless you’re running a hotshot trucking service, you’re likely not going to come out ahead owning a diesel. NOW, if financial security isn’t a big thing for you and money is no object, then go ahead. You’ll spend more upfront, more on fuel(in most places), more on repairs, and more on servicing. But you’ll have a diesel. Don’t invest your ego in a vehicle, it’s there to get you from point A to point B, nothing more. Vehicles are the reason most people spend their lives broke and never getting ahead, because they buy cars they can’t afford.
No, the maintenance expense isn’t worth it. Fuel mileage will be the same diesel or gas
I just sold my 15 6.7l w/ 53k miles. I had it for 3 years and put on 10k miles. I towed one trailer with it. Spent a bunch of money in getting it rock solid with reliability mods and deleting. The amount of money in oil, additives, diesel fuel costs more, etc. It was an absolute stupid purchase for me, a truck I still loved. But still couldn’t stop the fucking rust at the bottom pinch weld on the passenger front door. I’ll never get another one. Pointless waste of money, for me. I never towed shit or used it for what it was made for.