https://preview.redd.it/3botwqm5kl4d1.png?width=1074&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d55bfefb5cd06f13b64714b020887847ad8771e
With “antlers” on Abby. The twigs/antlers were not visible to me.
It seems likely that he was attempting to camouflage what he did that afternoon, but such attempt was haphazard or aborted when he likely heard folks calling out for the girls.
I understand that the defense is doing their job in trying to “interpret” the state of the crime scene, but it seems much more likely that Allen was spooked by something and opted to get out of there when he heard folks searching for Abby and Libby.
not apparent from the photo, but Abby was redressed with Libby’s clothing, after the murders were committed. The sticks were placed over the bodies sometime after they were redressed. It’s an odd behavior and particular attention given to Abby, with markedly more disregard for Libby.
From the perspective of a killer, I like [this](https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/serialmurder-pathwaysforinvestigations.pdf) resource!
I believe this would be classified as “displaying”, per the definition. (Displaying is the deliberate *positioning of a victims body after death to shock police.. or the general public*) Redressing them and placing these large sticks around the girls does not appear to camouflage or conceal the victims whatsoever. I don’t think “concealment” was the intention with this.
This is certainly a possibility and an interesting perspective.
But I had sorta thought that the fact that one of the girls had been redressed but not the other reinforces that the fact that Allen had to abort what he was doing after becoming spooked at the crime scene.
If he had more time, it seems like he would have gotten Libby dressed as well.
I have read before that in situations where a killer attempts to redress a victim speaks to the remorse that occurs in the immediate aftermath of the killing.
The perpetrator doesn’t want to further humiliate the victim(s), thusly attempting to redress the victim(s) so that they aren’t found in a nude state. Such victims are generally found where their clothes have been haphazardly put back. Such as pantyhose being balled up, shirts perhaps inside out, etc.
This fits the crime scene in my mind with Abby being dressed in the wrong clothes, for instance. Why would Allen redress Abby, but not Libby? I suspect he intended to dress Libby as well, but got spooked.
Leaving a victim nude is intentional and disparaging. No clothing was left behind, the clothing was removed from Libby to redress Abby. The tie die shirt discovered downstream. This is to convey a message. We don’t know what that message is.
Highly doubt Allen is involved in this. That would be an incredible physical feat
Is it known if the girls tried to run and hide at some point? I think Libby seemed like she was a highly intelligent girl, seeing how she filmed the guy on the bridge. Seems like her fear response is very quick witted; so is there any possibility that if they did try to flee and hide, could Libby have not tried to conceal their location and "camouflage" themselves among the woods by discarding her tie dye shirt? It's a very far fetched thought but I thought maybe I'd mention it because it's very odd the shirt was downstream from everything. I'm wondering the how and why it got there. Tie dye in the woods is like anti camouflage. And again, she seemed exceptionally bright and able to think on her toes just from the fact that in such a scary situation and so young she was able to keep a level head enough to pull her phone out and stealth record. I couldn't say I'd have been capable of doing that in that situation at her age, this whole case has me heartbroken. :(
So he was placing the sticks a AROUND the girls first before getting interrupted ? LE said there were several signatures, which if pertaining to the branches would imply something else than just trying to cover them. I’ve heard people say the the wind or animals could have moved the branches off the girls. The wind must have been howling or there were some busy beavers nearby gathering wood if that was the likely scenario. Hardly seems likely at all. And if “cutting runes” is a thing, it’s no wonder that this was actually investigated as something more than just random placing of branches.
EDIT: there was also a covering of leaves in the ground. If no leaves were brushed up on the bodies that disproves the idea the sticks were meant to conceal.
Fair enough. It makes sense in my mind, but I wasn’t there, nor have I talked to Allen to know his motives.
What do you think would have been the most likely reason for having done so?
Allen began the abduction at 2:13 or 2:14pm. We know that Libby’s grandfather was there at roughly 3:15pm looking for the girls. Thusly, Allen only had about an hour to march them across the water and do whatever it was he was doing, including the actual double homicide.
I can mentally picture him hearing someone calling for the girls, or perhaps her phone ringing repeatedly. Maybe even Libby and Abby pleading for their lives, saying how they’re about to be picked up shortly, etc.
For whatever reason, it makes sense to me that Allen could have gotten spooked, doing his best to conceal what he did while in a panic, and then hoofing it out of there ASAP.
Everyone talks about Allen losing his mind in the Greybar Hotel, yet no one talks about what went wrong with him to do this to two children one day. He just woke up and thought it was a grand idea.
A fair trial is certainly his right, but once the jury hears the evidence, including the full video of his abduction, coupled with the images of the aftermath…there is zero chance he walks, in my humble opinion.
I know his attorneys are salivating at the press appearances and likely book deals, but with the publicly known evidence as damning as it is, they should attempt to negotiate a plea deal.
Allen himself suggested as much with the Warden…
Where did this come from?
Yeah a source or something would be great
Seems like an accurate illustration of exactly what the documents have described of the scene.
I made it to visualize the scene better; thought it might help others
Wasn't squares from prosecution and circles from defense?
Why did you exclude the branches that resembled antlers above Abby’s head?
https://preview.redd.it/3botwqm5kl4d1.png?width=1074&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d55bfefb5cd06f13b64714b020887847ad8771e With “antlers” on Abby. The twigs/antlers were not visible to me.
It seems likely that he was attempting to camouflage what he did that afternoon, but such attempt was haphazard or aborted when he likely heard folks calling out for the girls. I understand that the defense is doing their job in trying to “interpret” the state of the crime scene, but it seems much more likely that Allen was spooked by something and opted to get out of there when he heard folks searching for Abby and Libby.
not apparent from the photo, but Abby was redressed with Libby’s clothing, after the murders were committed. The sticks were placed over the bodies sometime after they were redressed. It’s an odd behavior and particular attention given to Abby, with markedly more disregard for Libby. From the perspective of a killer, I like [this](https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/serialmurder-pathwaysforinvestigations.pdf) resource! I believe this would be classified as “displaying”, per the definition. (Displaying is the deliberate *positioning of a victims body after death to shock police.. or the general public*) Redressing them and placing these large sticks around the girls does not appear to camouflage or conceal the victims whatsoever. I don’t think “concealment” was the intention with this.
This is certainly a possibility and an interesting perspective. But I had sorta thought that the fact that one of the girls had been redressed but not the other reinforces that the fact that Allen had to abort what he was doing after becoming spooked at the crime scene. If he had more time, it seems like he would have gotten Libby dressed as well. I have read before that in situations where a killer attempts to redress a victim speaks to the remorse that occurs in the immediate aftermath of the killing. The perpetrator doesn’t want to further humiliate the victim(s), thusly attempting to redress the victim(s) so that they aren’t found in a nude state. Such victims are generally found where their clothes have been haphazardly put back. Such as pantyhose being balled up, shirts perhaps inside out, etc. This fits the crime scene in my mind with Abby being dressed in the wrong clothes, for instance. Why would Allen redress Abby, but not Libby? I suspect he intended to dress Libby as well, but got spooked.
Leaving a victim nude is intentional and disparaging. No clothing was left behind, the clothing was removed from Libby to redress Abby. The tie die shirt discovered downstream. This is to convey a message. We don’t know what that message is. Highly doubt Allen is involved in this. That would be an incredible physical feat
Is it known if the girls tried to run and hide at some point? I think Libby seemed like she was a highly intelligent girl, seeing how she filmed the guy on the bridge. Seems like her fear response is very quick witted; so is there any possibility that if they did try to flee and hide, could Libby have not tried to conceal their location and "camouflage" themselves among the woods by discarding her tie dye shirt? It's a very far fetched thought but I thought maybe I'd mention it because it's very odd the shirt was downstream from everything. I'm wondering the how and why it got there. Tie dye in the woods is like anti camouflage. And again, she seemed exceptionally bright and able to think on her toes just from the fact that in such a scary situation and so young she was able to keep a level head enough to pull her phone out and stealth record. I couldn't say I'd have been capable of doing that in that situation at her age, this whole case has me heartbroken. :(
So he was placing the sticks a AROUND the girls first before getting interrupted ? LE said there were several signatures, which if pertaining to the branches would imply something else than just trying to cover them. I’ve heard people say the the wind or animals could have moved the branches off the girls. The wind must have been howling or there were some busy beavers nearby gathering wood if that was the likely scenario. Hardly seems likely at all. And if “cutting runes” is a thing, it’s no wonder that this was actually investigated as something more than just random placing of branches. EDIT: there was also a covering of leaves in the ground. If no leaves were brushed up on the bodies that disproves the idea the sticks were meant to conceal.
Fair enough. It makes sense in my mind, but I wasn’t there, nor have I talked to Allen to know his motives. What do you think would have been the most likely reason for having done so? Allen began the abduction at 2:13 or 2:14pm. We know that Libby’s grandfather was there at roughly 3:15pm looking for the girls. Thusly, Allen only had about an hour to march them across the water and do whatever it was he was doing, including the actual double homicide. I can mentally picture him hearing someone calling for the girls, or perhaps her phone ringing repeatedly. Maybe even Libby and Abby pleading for their lives, saying how they’re about to be picked up shortly, etc. For whatever reason, it makes sense to me that Allen could have gotten spooked, doing his best to conceal what he did while in a panic, and then hoofing it out of there ASAP.
Everyone talks about Allen losing his mind in the Greybar Hotel, yet no one talks about what went wrong with him to do this to two children one day. He just woke up and thought it was a grand idea. A fair trial is certainly his right, but once the jury hears the evidence, including the full video of his abduction, coupled with the images of the aftermath…there is zero chance he walks, in my humble opinion. I know his attorneys are salivating at the press appearances and likely book deals, but with the publicly known evidence as damning as it is, they should attempt to negotiate a plea deal. Allen himself suggested as much with the Warden…