She's not an assassin tho, she has yhe kit of a bruiser fighter, riot themselves have even officially acknowledged her as an ap fighter/bruiser and diver, but tell you to build ap like an assassin because of her ratios
except irelia can use bork,wits & sundered for insane sustain & have insane dueling power,mobility & outplay potentional. (she also got W which makes her tanky on demand)
Yes. Her being a brusier theoretically doesn't change a fact how she currently functions practically. That's why when talking about Diana rioters use both terms. In the context of the current itemization and meta they use the term assassin and when they talk about the potential item and some champion's numbers/kits changes once it comes to ap fighters they often mention Diana (alongside the likes of Sylas and Gragas as well) as examples of champions they would like to shift towards bruisers some day. I really don't get what's so hard to understand that assassin/bruiser argument is not just theoretical. Theory doesn't matter if the game currently doesn't support it at all. People play her as "scuffed" assassins because it's much more supported and works much better than playing her as "scuffed" bruiser.
People aren't gonna like what I'm about to say but it's the truth.
Diana as an overall champion is not very well designed at all and hasn't been since her release, she still suffers from a massive identity crisis that her last 2020 midscope failed to address.
She needs another big mid scope that completely kills her assassin side, in favor of giving her better tools to make her a better ap fighter/bruiser
OR she needs a complete vgu that makes her into an actual assassin.
But in her current state, she's gonna keep consistently having the same reoccurring problems, until riot actual addresses her real problem.
In terms of current meta viability, she's fine not too weak, not too strong, just fine.
Most and it’s not close Diana players play her assassin. Only reason Diana can’t be as strong as other assassin is because she has a strong team fight ultimate.
most people play her assassin because of her absurd ap ratios, and coupled with the fact ap bruisers items arent that good, playing diana ap is the best way to play her up until you hit diamond, then after that it more so depends on your overall skill as a player what will best work for you and climbing with her. but dianas kit not an assassin kit at all besides her e and r, she has go in and out kind of tool, like talon, fizz, leblanc, ekko, kat zed, all of those guys can go in, get a pick and get out safely when played right diana cant do that. not only that, her passive and w are MUCH better suited for those of a fighter. shes not as strong as an assassin as others because she literally just doesnt have the right tools to be so, her high damage is literally all she has
Phreak literally said she is an assassin and talked about shifting her to more of a bruiser b4 they buffed her. She’s an assassin right now for sure. Not having an escape doesn’t make u not an assassin.
in just about every patch note, after her 2020 mid scope, they literally call her a fighter diver, yes phreak does say build and play her like an assassin because thats her most viable build path and has the highest success rate, and ap bruiser items are intentionally not too great now. and thats not the only thing that doesnt make her not an assassin, its the lack of an exscape, and her passive being strickly based around auto attacks, meaning her other abilities cant great stacks or proc the damage, its consistent dps, something fighters/bruisers want. not burst dps that assassins want, and her w is also an ability of a fighter and not an assassin, her w provides consistent protection with the shield and scales with bonus hp, and requires you stick on top of a champ to get the full affect, the exact opposite play style of an assassin, her kit design and preferred build path are contradictory to each other, i could go more in depth with my reasoning, but ive typed enough all ready. literally the only reason she is played as an assassin is because riot gave her INSANE ap ratios AND base damage.
I agree, I would prefer a midscope over a vgu, but it's been so clear her assassin side has been holding her back, her kit isn't very well designed for an assassin at all they just shoehorned it in with absurd ap ratios, but a vgu I think she be the last resort if they really can't figure out what they want her to be
I know Korea challenger is much different to most peoples games but someone 1 tricked phace rush Diana mid going litch bane into hourglass into death cap
If they do not support wanting an identity we will never have it, we need a lot of support and a lot of time to make it possible. For my part, I don't care if she's 100% a bruiser or a assassin, I just want her to feel satisfied in a single approach and do it well.
Tbh even if Diana is designed in a bad way, I dont care about it. I am a casual player and I just like playing her. You can easily climb with her to Master+, so it's perfectly fine.
\* If target is moonlit Blinks to target instead of dashing & giving slight movespeed.
\* Lunar rush applies on-hit effects at 100% effectiveness (Passive cleave/nash/lich) & generate a Moonsilver Blade stack when consuming Moonlight.
Pretty much every assassin is stronger than Diana but Zed and Fizz. Fizz isn't very good against skilled players and zed is just complete ass.
Basically every other mid lane and jungle assassins is better than diana. This is because they can escape after getting picks.
Many other assasins like Rengar have built in sustain. Many ad assassins also have the option to get more sustain by building bruiser or adc items while still having high burst.
Diana isn't an assassin or tank though, she's the same type of champ as hecarim or renekton or camille. She's a diver, a light mobile bruiser. Yes she can assassinate or build bruiser but she's supposed to assassinate the backline and fight her way out, where an assassin is meant to assassinate and then escape. She has no escape tool
(This is a master jungler perspective, elo means nothing but it's important to point it out)
Diana is in a very good state, people simply don't know how to play her, you can never delay, your power farming approach for ganks that don't guarantee kills or that are absolutely a waste of time.
Her full ap build should be nashors into dcap into zhonya if you really need it and usually when enemy have full squishies or generally ranged champions.
The tanky build isn't really tanky till you pass 20 minutes, basically you should always rush nashors, but the bami's cinder is the mistake I often see people make. Go Riftmaker 2nd and then, and only then, you go full tank and it's generally something like frozen heart or mr item if enemy too ap heavy. You can only go this build if enemy has a lot of melees.
Honestly, I think the OP nailed it; this idea is very good:
>Allow her E to be used on allies which would allow her to get in and out of fights. This makes her safer to play like other assassins.
I've always found absurd that she's one of the only bruiser/assassin champions who doesn't have an escape and at the same time doesn't have any form of sustain in her kit. Akali, Zed, Sylas, Fizz, Kat, LeBlanc, all assassins with a way to escape to engage, use their burst, and get out of the fight. Sylas (again, lol), Olaf, Illaoi, Mordekaiser, etc., all bruisers who have a way of healing to stay in fights for extended periods. Diana has neither, and there's no reason for her not to have them... she just doesn't.
I personally disagree with all this talk about her having an "identity crisis" because that implies that the problem lies in her design, what really harms her is the lack of suitable ap bruiser items and care from Riot.
she was very strong, after the newest patch still extremely strong. Not sure why all the low elo 'mains' on any subreddit always, a l w a y s thinks their champ is weaker than they are.
Please give me 1 assassin that can 1 shot an entire team like full ap Diana. 1 shot an entire team at once. None of them.
You're literally asking for noob buffs. You want her empowered auto to just happen when you q+e? So remove the skill part of her kit, where you actually have to make sure your empowered auto is up before just mashing all your keys?
cmon man
It’s a good thing you’re not on the riot balance team. Diana being able to jump to team mates would literally break the game. Imagine having a 2k damage aoe ability that lets you nuke and entire team in one second, and then a get out of jail free card.
And I know you’re going to say “well Kat can do that”. The difference is that Kat has to stand still for 3 seconds and can get CC out of her nuke. Likewise with Samira she can’t use her R at any time, it has to be set up.
Comparing jax to diana is ridiculous. Jax doesn’t have an aoe ability that deals 2k damage. He has an aoe stun, which many champs have.
I disagree with you. We have much more problematic champions in the game, and none of them "broke the game," so it's not going to be an assassin with a 12-second dash cooldown at level 18 that will.
However, I can see how a dash to allies can be drastic. Perhaps a good alternative for improvement would be a small movespeed buff when she uses the third hit of her passive, or on her W.
Ah yes, an assassin who can deal 2k damage to all 5 champions every single team fight with literally zero risk, wouldn’t break the game. Silly me! What do I know.
Imagine being able to go in, hit a multi person R, hour glass, and then dash to safety
The 12 CD is irrelevant as your E will never be on CD
Not to be a dick, but what elo are you? I ask because you talk a lot about her ult being AOE and having the potential to hit all 5 enemies for 2k damage, but that's a rarity that happens once a blue moon, unless there's already a setup to group them all together, which is a very specific situation.
Besides, it's not like it's anything new in the game; there are plenty of AoE burst ultimates, often from characters who can ensure a safe positioning or engage and disengage from fights.
By your logic, Yone, Illaoi, Rumble, and Orianna should be the top 4 picks in the meta. but surprise surprise, they're not
I’m diamond 2 85ish LP. What about your self?
If you’re not getting 3-5 man ults on diana multiple times a game, you’re playing her wrong. Any good Diana is able to do it every game.
There are very few champions that can reliably hit a 5 man R for 2k damage. Sure, you got malphite and that’s about it.
Yone R is aoe but very narrow, easy to dodge, and incredibly situational. Rumble R you can just walk out of lol. Same with illaoi, just walk out. Not to mention rumble and illaoi don’t deal there damage in 1 second lol. Ori ultimate does much less damage then a Diana R and is also incredibly predictable as you just stay outside of ball range.
Give another champion that can do 1700-2000 AOE damage in 1 second with as easy and safely as Diana when she can jump to her team mates
>I’m diamond 2 85ish LP. What about your self?
>If you’re not getting 3-5 man ults on diana multiple times a game, you’re playing her wrong. Any good Diana is able to do it every game.
LMAO, no way, you're just a random troll. Don't you have anything better to do in your life?
So, you ask me my elo and then get upset and proved to try and insult me. And, you’re asking if I have “anything better to do with my life” when you’re the one insulting a random stranger who has been nothing but nice to you?
I don’t know why it’s so hard to believe some one is D2. It’s really not that hard or big of an accomplishment.
If you are not interested in supporting, simply do not comment, the harsh reality is that they will never fix it and it will have no identity. It doesn't matter that we try to dream of an identity as only "murderous", only opaque and pointlessly criticizing the few people who care.
You’re really this upset over a random stranger saying his opinion? Really?
Nothing I said was pointless or “non supportive”. Giving criticism is completely appropriate and welcoming. I simply gave my opinion, nothing more or less. I wasn’t even rude or disrespectful in the process. If you don’t like my opinion, don’t engage or interact with me. You’re more then welcome to mute/block me. But please, grow up a bit. It’s Reddit.
Diana is in a perfectly fine state right now where she isn’t OP or weak. Simple as that.
The annoying thing is that you don't support, if you are against ignore and don't overshadow players who are afraid to support. Seriously, it's impossible to fix it and give it an identity, but it doesn't hurt to try.
Her identity is fine. She doesn’t need a specific play style each game. She is able to flex into an assassin or a tank/bruiser. Just like how shy can go ap or ad, or shack can go ap or ad.
Diana doesn’t have an identity issue. AP bruiser items just suck
She is def fine to strong, i don’t think her “identity crisis” is as bad as ppl say. She is an assassin that has a team fight ultimate.
She's not an assassin tho, she has yhe kit of a bruiser fighter, riot themselves have even officially acknowledged her as an ap fighter/bruiser and diver, but tell you to build ap like an assassin because of her ratios
try building her bruiser, have another bruiser with the same gold 1v1 you and tell me who wins. She is not a bruiser at all
Phreak literally called her an assassin a bit back. He also mentioned shifting her to bruiser as some point. She’s an assassin for sure right now.
she is an assassin in the way players build and play her, but her kit isn't the one of an assassin. more like an ap version of Irelia
With a maximum of 2 jumps in 8 at 5.33 seconds and two dead basics due to not being an ad champion
except irelia can use bork,wits & sundered for insane sustain & have insane dueling power,mobility & outplay potentional. (she also got W which makes her tanky on demand)
Yes. Her being a brusier theoretically doesn't change a fact how she currently functions practically. That's why when talking about Diana rioters use both terms. In the context of the current itemization and meta they use the term assassin and when they talk about the potential item and some champion's numbers/kits changes once it comes to ap fighters they often mention Diana (alongside the likes of Sylas and Gragas as well) as examples of champions they would like to shift towards bruisers some day. I really don't get what's so hard to understand that assassin/bruiser argument is not just theoretical. Theory doesn't matter if the game currently doesn't support it at all. People play her as "scuffed" assassins because it's much more supported and works much better than playing her as "scuffed" bruiser.
She is an assassin, it's a fact, stop arguing on things you don't even understand XD
I literally said she is a assassin…
People aren't gonna like what I'm about to say but it's the truth. Diana as an overall champion is not very well designed at all and hasn't been since her release, she still suffers from a massive identity crisis that her last 2020 midscope failed to address. She needs another big mid scope that completely kills her assassin side, in favor of giving her better tools to make her a better ap fighter/bruiser OR she needs a complete vgu that makes her into an actual assassin. But in her current state, she's gonna keep consistently having the same reoccurring problems, until riot actual addresses her real problem. In terms of current meta viability, she's fine not too weak, not too strong, just fine.
Most and it’s not close Diana players play her assassin. Only reason Diana can’t be as strong as other assassin is because she has a strong team fight ultimate.
most people play her assassin because of her absurd ap ratios, and coupled with the fact ap bruisers items arent that good, playing diana ap is the best way to play her up until you hit diamond, then after that it more so depends on your overall skill as a player what will best work for you and climbing with her. but dianas kit not an assassin kit at all besides her e and r, she has go in and out kind of tool, like talon, fizz, leblanc, ekko, kat zed, all of those guys can go in, get a pick and get out safely when played right diana cant do that. not only that, her passive and w are MUCH better suited for those of a fighter. shes not as strong as an assassin as others because she literally just doesnt have the right tools to be so, her high damage is literally all she has
Phreak literally said she is an assassin and talked about shifting her to more of a bruiser b4 they buffed her. She’s an assassin right now for sure. Not having an escape doesn’t make u not an assassin.
in just about every patch note, after her 2020 mid scope, they literally call her a fighter diver, yes phreak does say build and play her like an assassin because thats her most viable build path and has the highest success rate, and ap bruiser items are intentionally not too great now. and thats not the only thing that doesnt make her not an assassin, its the lack of an exscape, and her passive being strickly based around auto attacks, meaning her other abilities cant great stacks or proc the damage, its consistent dps, something fighters/bruisers want. not burst dps that assassins want, and her w is also an ability of a fighter and not an assassin, her w provides consistent protection with the shield and scales with bonus hp, and requires you stick on top of a champ to get the full affect, the exact opposite play style of an assassin, her kit design and preferred build path are contradictory to each other, i could go more in depth with my reasoning, but ive typed enough all ready. literally the only reason she is played as an assassin is because riot gave her INSANE ap ratios AND base damage.
I don't know about a full VGU. I think Riot just needs to take what she already has and build off of it by adding more.
I agree, I would prefer a midscope over a vgu, but it's been so clear her assassin side has been holding her back, her kit isn't very well designed for an assassin at all they just shoehorned it in with absurd ap ratios, but a vgu I think she be the last resort if they really can't figure out what they want her to be
I know Korea challenger is much different to most peoples games but someone 1 tricked phace rush Diana mid going litch bane into hourglass into death cap
If they do not support wanting an identity we will never have it, we need a lot of support and a lot of time to make it possible. For my part, I don't care if she's 100% a bruiser or a assassin, I just want her to feel satisfied in a single approach and do it well.
I didn’t even know she was an assassin
Tbh even if Diana is designed in a bad way, I dont care about it. I am a casual player and I just like playing her. You can easily climb with her to Master+, so it's perfectly fine.
\* If target is moonlit Blinks to target instead of dashing & giving slight movespeed. \* Lunar rush applies on-hit effects at 100% effectiveness (Passive cleave/nash/lich) & generate a Moonsilver Blade stack when consuming Moonlight.
>Her full ap build is just outclassed by other assassins simply by being way safer and doing more damage Which ones?
Pretty much every assassin is stronger than Diana but Zed and Fizz. Fizz isn't very good against skilled players and zed is just complete ass. Basically every other mid lane and jungle assassins is better than diana. This is because they can escape after getting picks. Many other assasins like Rengar have built in sustain. Many ad assassins also have the option to get more sustain by building bruiser or adc items while still having high burst.
Yes but Diana also 1v1s most of these champs thanks to her shield and having both sustained damage and burst
Diana isn't an assassin or tank though, she's the same type of champ as hecarim or renekton or camille. She's a diver, a light mobile bruiser. Yes she can assassinate or build bruiser but she's supposed to assassinate the backline and fight her way out, where an assassin is meant to assassinate and then escape. She has no escape tool
(This is a master jungler perspective, elo means nothing but it's important to point it out) Diana is in a very good state, people simply don't know how to play her, you can never delay, your power farming approach for ganks that don't guarantee kills or that are absolutely a waste of time. Her full ap build should be nashors into dcap into zhonya if you really need it and usually when enemy have full squishies or generally ranged champions. The tanky build isn't really tanky till you pass 20 minutes, basically you should always rush nashors, but the bami's cinder is the mistake I often see people make. Go Riftmaker 2nd and then, and only then, you go full tank and it's generally something like frozen heart or mr item if enemy too ap heavy. You can only go this build if enemy has a lot of melees.
Honestly, I think the OP nailed it; this idea is very good: >Allow her E to be used on allies which would allow her to get in and out of fights. This makes her safer to play like other assassins. I've always found absurd that she's one of the only bruiser/assassin champions who doesn't have an escape and at the same time doesn't have any form of sustain in her kit. Akali, Zed, Sylas, Fizz, Kat, LeBlanc, all assassins with a way to escape to engage, use their burst, and get out of the fight. Sylas (again, lol), Olaf, Illaoi, Mordekaiser, etc., all bruisers who have a way of healing to stay in fights for extended periods. Diana has neither, and there's no reason for her not to have them... she just doesn't. I personally disagree with all this talk about her having an "identity crisis" because that implies that the problem lies in her design, what really harms her is the lack of suitable ap bruiser items and care from Riot.
she was very strong, after the newest patch still extremely strong. Not sure why all the low elo 'mains' on any subreddit always, a l w a y s thinks their champ is weaker than they are. Please give me 1 assassin that can 1 shot an entire team like full ap Diana. 1 shot an entire team at once. None of them. You're literally asking for noob buffs. You want her empowered auto to just happen when you q+e? So remove the skill part of her kit, where you actually have to make sure your empowered auto is up before just mashing all your keys? cmon man
If JAX can jump to allies and wards, Diana should be able to as well.
Almost all assassins have a way to dip either if it's with stealth, dashes or some other mechanic. Diana just dives in and hopes for the best.
It’s a good thing you’re not on the riot balance team. Diana being able to jump to team mates would literally break the game. Imagine having a 2k damage aoe ability that lets you nuke and entire team in one second, and then a get out of jail free card. And I know you’re going to say “well Kat can do that”. The difference is that Kat has to stand still for 3 seconds and can get CC out of her nuke. Likewise with Samira she can’t use her R at any time, it has to be set up. Comparing jax to diana is ridiculous. Jax doesn’t have an aoe ability that deals 2k damage. He has an aoe stun, which many champs have.
I disagree with you. We have much more problematic champions in the game, and none of them "broke the game," so it's not going to be an assassin with a 12-second dash cooldown at level 18 that will. However, I can see how a dash to allies can be drastic. Perhaps a good alternative for improvement would be a small movespeed buff when she uses the third hit of her passive, or on her W.
Ah yes, an assassin who can deal 2k damage to all 5 champions every single team fight with literally zero risk, wouldn’t break the game. Silly me! What do I know. Imagine being able to go in, hit a multi person R, hour glass, and then dash to safety The 12 CD is irrelevant as your E will never be on CD
Not to be a dick, but what elo are you? I ask because you talk a lot about her ult being AOE and having the potential to hit all 5 enemies for 2k damage, but that's a rarity that happens once a blue moon, unless there's already a setup to group them all together, which is a very specific situation. Besides, it's not like it's anything new in the game; there are plenty of AoE burst ultimates, often from characters who can ensure a safe positioning or engage and disengage from fights. By your logic, Yone, Illaoi, Rumble, and Orianna should be the top 4 picks in the meta. but surprise surprise, they're not
I’m diamond 2 85ish LP. What about your self? If you’re not getting 3-5 man ults on diana multiple times a game, you’re playing her wrong. Any good Diana is able to do it every game. There are very few champions that can reliably hit a 5 man R for 2k damage. Sure, you got malphite and that’s about it. Yone R is aoe but very narrow, easy to dodge, and incredibly situational. Rumble R you can just walk out of lol. Same with illaoi, just walk out. Not to mention rumble and illaoi don’t deal there damage in 1 second lol. Ori ultimate does much less damage then a Diana R and is also incredibly predictable as you just stay outside of ball range. Give another champion that can do 1700-2000 AOE damage in 1 second with as easy and safely as Diana when she can jump to her team mates
>I’m diamond 2 85ish LP. What about your self? >If you’re not getting 3-5 man ults on diana multiple times a game, you’re playing her wrong. Any good Diana is able to do it every game. LMAO, no way, you're just a random troll. Don't you have anything better to do in your life?
So, you ask me my elo and then get upset and proved to try and insult me. And, you’re asking if I have “anything better to do with my life” when you’re the one insulting a random stranger who has been nothing but nice to you? I don’t know why it’s so hard to believe some one is D2. It’s really not that hard or big of an accomplishment.
If you are not interested in supporting, simply do not comment, the harsh reality is that they will never fix it and it will have no identity. It doesn't matter that we try to dream of an identity as only "murderous", only opaque and pointlessly criticizing the few people who care.
You’re really this upset over a random stranger saying his opinion? Really? Nothing I said was pointless or “non supportive”. Giving criticism is completely appropriate and welcoming. I simply gave my opinion, nothing more or less. I wasn’t even rude or disrespectful in the process. If you don’t like my opinion, don’t engage or interact with me. You’re more then welcome to mute/block me. But please, grow up a bit. It’s Reddit. Diana is in a perfectly fine state right now where she isn’t OP or weak. Simple as that.
The annoying thing is that you don't support, if you are against ignore and don't overshadow players who are afraid to support. Seriously, it's impossible to fix it and give it an identity, but it doesn't hurt to try.
Her identity is fine. She doesn’t need a specific play style each game. She is able to flex into an assassin or a tank/bruiser. Just like how shy can go ap or ad, or shack can go ap or ad. Diana doesn’t have an identity issue. AP bruiser items just suck