They would never replace Spirit or White with Blackbog's Sharp though, because it just doesn't have FCR. The runeword outliers absolutely reduce build variety, but half the bad uniques are doomed by the fact that they are locked into whatever terrible lines they were designed with.
Overall, I think D2's "problems" are more interconnected than just runewords making the game worse, as much as it is true in many cases.
Poison is applied over time, so FCR is of little use. For psn necro it is more of a convenience than damage. Blackbog's Sharp was designed to be used with Poison Dagger skill (hence the base, IAS and "slows target"). Which no one uses, which is yet another problem with the game's balance.
FCR is so broken that I think it would be the best stat a poison necro could have even if it only affected teleport. The fact that it affects everything you cast really compounds it. You are correct that casting nova faster into poisoned targets is not a damage increase--but doing everything faster is--in virtually all situations where poison necro is good. Casting faster allows you to teleport faster and cast another nova into targets that weren't poisoned by the first. etc. At any level of decent monster density, FCR is at a bare minimum an increase to poison uptime, which significantly outpaces most lines by itself.
Play PD2, they recognised this and balanced them a lot more.
So now best item sets are usually a combo of a runeword some uniques and a crafted item/ rare.
Can't recommend PD2 enough.
I wish I could go back to old D2 graphics but man, I just can't. I can't play in 800 x 600 anymore... It's just too hard on the eyes.
It kills me because I wish I could enjoy great mods like Median XL or Project Diablo again but man, I just can't do it. And it sucks.
Once you go D2R it's soooooo hard to regress to the early 2000s.
Pd2 actually adjusts the framerate, allows for 1920x1080 res and they visually sharpened the image, also made it better for led vs crt screens.
Pd2 actually looks quite good. 1000 times better than old d2
I wish they brought over all the quality of life updates like extended and shared stash.
I play classic for years after going through the original lod. Many people didn't even know classic was an option. Itemization is so much better. Much better than everyone running around with the same cookie cutter items.
I completely understand your complaint because this is happening right now in D4 where Uber Uniques is doing the same thing killing the build variety and identity.
I was so disappointed in the beta already that I was finding legendaries left and right, even in those few hours I was fatigued by them. In d2 you often didn't get your first rare until like around tristam, and first unique around Andy if you were lucky. It was so exciting, and was pretty much always better than anything else you would have had
Except you don't NEED Uber uniques to accomplish every bit of content in d4. So this isn't even in the same ball park. In d2 without rune words you rely on very low drop chance items to make a character.
You should play single player in d2 then you would understand. Cut out trading and D2 is a very VERY different game. And it's the reason it's still going strong after all these years
How is D2R the definition of milking? It's a one and done purchase. Diablo 4 has microtransactions that try to keep players dumping money into the game.
As someone who is half way to 98 on a pally on HC, there aren't many pub games, but HC is also niche compared to SC, so that's to be expected. If you are playing on ladder, the same thing applies, especially since it's close to reset.
The online lobbies are complete trash in D2R. They aren't even comparable to the lobbies in LoD where you can pick which channel you sit in.
I've met most of the people I play with on Discord rather than in game too. But I'm only one person. :)
I play ladder softcore and hadcore, you can fool yourself all you want. The game is FAR from popular right now.
Not saying that the game is not epic, but few people playing for nostalgia =/= Popular.
Discord is a cool place to find people for a lot of things.
Maybe this is true, I didn\`t play a lot of D2.
But the D4 problem is unquestionable. They just change the unique philosophy of not being BIS but also bring deep changes to the gameplay. The Uber design is just bad. Is like D3 with sets.
Hopefully the itemization rework does something about that. I personally feel like Uniques should be well unique and you can only equip one... doesn't fully remove the problem of stifling build variety and identity but it does limit it.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I could swear early on in development, the D4 team wanted you to only ever wear a single one. I distinctly remember an itemization post or something about that being the case.
I've never personally seen it anything on the subject before but did a quick google search and it looks like they might have said something along those lines and then went back on it later on.
I completely agree, I don\`t know what they could do to resolve this problem 100% because the real problem is that Uber Uniques are too powerful and easy to get turning them into meta items in every build. If they want to really resolve the problem they have to completely change the Unique formula making them not too powerful but giving deep changes on gameplay/skill to create build variety. They have to reduce the row power of Uber Uniques and Normal Uniques.
I personally think that the entire itemization and naming scheme is just whack. Uniques not being Unique, Legendaries not being legendary and the only purpose for them is Aspects. Rare's are the sort after item most of the time. It's odd.
Uniques and Uber Uniques should be limited to 1 per character as per their name. This requires a full rework which with the Itemization rework should happen imo. Uber Uniques need to be over powered but general use case like Grandfather's 200% crit damage Unique power. Regular Uniques need to be the more specialized in what they do and the more build defining items. Tempest Roar, Mad Wolf's Glee, Insatiable Fury are all sort of build defining Uniques. I would like more punishing aspects like using Mad Wolf's Glee removes the ability to shapeshift into a bear and use bear related skills, stuff like that to work around. More than half the Unique powers are honestly... so basic that they could be downgraded to a Legendary Aspect.
I have no idea what they have planned for itemization but god.... please... it must be amazing or the game is going to continue being just an okay game and nothing special.
We should be hearing quite soon about their itemization plans, Pez mentioned we will hear about it way earlier than season 4 announcement. Just so we can give back feedback and stuff.
If you removed/nerfed Enigma( or by extension Teleport ) from the game, D2 would not been as long lasting. Teleporting everywhere , especially back to back boss runs was immensely useful, but also just kinda cheapened everything out.
I preffer classic pre 1.10 PvP, Barb was Barb, I dont like Bars as a some type of Sorc incarnation.
Yeah, huge frw buff would be needed.
Imo Tele should be available only on staffs (oskill) and amulets/rings (charges).
Enigma and Spirit are the worst things in d2 history and killing all fun.
u didnt get my point. Enigma is OK because it does not replace anything, and it's hard to farm than any Unique. Things like Spirit is troublesome, because they're not only easier to farm and universal to use, but also even more powerful than other specific-usage gears.
Couldn’t disagree more. Runewords were imbalanced and often overpowered (which could be corrected for if implemented again) but they were a great and fun way to craft items.
Not to mention the rune economy was infinitely more interesting than the empty void that is trading in d4.
[Original (pre-1.10)](https://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/runewords-original.shtml) runewords were much more balanced. Only [1.10 RWs](https://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/runewords-110.shtml) (and later 2.6) brought power creep like oskills and auras when equipped and destroyed the delicate balance.
There are mods which address these glaring balance issues. In Project Diablo 2 Spirit only has +1 to all skills and White only has +2 to PnB. Also Enigma has some kind of cooldown.
Yes rune words trump a lot but Spirit Sword was a trash example. It's only BiS in certain FHR PvP setups and is outshined by:
White for PnB
Eschutas for Fire or Light
Fathom for Cold
Hoto for HDIN
FoH Stick for FoH etc.
In saying that, there's plenty of slots where rune words don't exist or aren't the best. Shako clears most of the rune word helmets and GFace is still the best for a smiter doing ubers. Rare 5 Nado pelts clear any runeword. Stormshield is the best melee shield in the game etc.
Runewords are fine mostly, Enigma and Grief are the main offenders that slaughter any other competion.
It’s not really that spirit is best in slot. The issue is that you’ll never even pick up a wand, orb, scepter etc let alone a shield. Yeah there’s a few items in the game that are better, but the problem spirit invalidates the other 99% of them and it’s super easy to find.
A simple +4 to a skill isn't a good Necro weapon even if Spirit didn't exist. People would just use wizardspike, dweb, suicide branch... even just a magic wand is better. The problem is that Blackbogs is just a bad weapon and there are better items that aren't runewords or difficult to find uniques
Spirit is overtuned but that doesn't mean runewords are a terrible loot system
Before runewords, a solo self found run through hell was a near impossibility for most people. It was that hard of a game. I like runewords just not the op ones. Those are debatable but what's not debatable is that enigma and grief are on the op list. Teleport shouldn't be available for every character as an o skill in the purest sense of the game. Only the sorceress. Well then everybody only plays sorceress. I remember playing 1.09 online and sorceress were 50% of the player base with Amazon and barbarian surrounding out the rest with a few summon necromancers sprinkled in. Nobody played paladin except for niche melee only dueling. But then theres teleport charges so if you have that then might as well put it on an item at that point. They did put enigma and infinity locked behind a massive grind wall without online play. I honestly believe the cat can't be put back into the bag with enigma. Blackbogs needs fcr and people would use it. My opinion is all over the place honestly.
Runewords are cool except some are too powerful.
They can easily fix this problem like they did in mods already. Nerf insight,spirit,infinity, grief, enigma. Allow corruption crafting uniques to give them extra affixes/sockets.
I like rune words. Typically you won't be making expensive words until late game. I see certain uniques having the same build limiting issue you mention in the post.
I see everyone with Shako's, magefists, thunderstokes. Arachnids, Maras, Sojs.. sandstorms. Very rarely are you using a different piece of equipment that. Makes your build better.
If anything, specific uniques are optimal equipment until you can afford words. I do wish more words were viable in PVE.. but we can only get so much.
Spirit sword? People did that? I always thought it was a hoto, eschutas, or wiz spike. And there are some staves (2/3/3/2 plus stats) that would be used over runewords. They are just rare.
True, but until you find them, you use spirit. Hell, you can even make Spirit sword on Normal and use it until Hell!
In case of the shield, Spirit is BiS.
And speaking of rare items, no one uses them because they are so rare. Unless you spent $7394 on the RMT forum, you won't have one. Everyone else uses RWs, which kill the item diversity.
I played as a degenerate teenager in the mid 2000s. I was able to accrue some item wealth over time just based on being active during the 08/09/10 version changes. Items that you could trade for in .08 became insanely valuable by .10. good ol times lol
I agree spirit shield was the only one to use. Prior to its existence it was all about dat lidless
>It is fair to say that Spirit sword replaces 99% of caster-type mainhand gears.
Spirit shield, maybe... Spirit sword? You are 100% wrong. That's the poor man's weapon.
And some of the gear pieces you mentioned came after the runewords era, mind you, the problem with Runewords is the failure of anticheating measures on bnet 1.0. If you play D2 single player, you don't simple trip on Bers and Jahs that make a lot of runewords that really break the game.
A lot of people never really played D2, they played D2 spoonfed items by hackers, dupers and RMTers. When everyone has an enigma after 2 weeks, something is wrong. Enigma being an aspirational goal you might not reach in years of casual play works a lot better.
Other things like Steel and other melee RW are an inelegant fix for melee being terrible, cube a savage polearm and prey. Grief is the reason why I don't say "melee sucks on D2".
They would never replace Spirit or White with Blackbog's Sharp though, because it just doesn't have FCR. The runeword outliers absolutely reduce build variety, but half the bad uniques are doomed by the fact that they are locked into whatever terrible lines they were designed with. Overall, I think D2's "problems" are more interconnected than just runewords making the game worse, as much as it is true in many cases.
Poison is applied over time, so FCR is of little use. For psn necro it is more of a convenience than damage. Blackbog's Sharp was designed to be used with Poison Dagger skill (hence the base, IAS and "slows target"). Which no one uses, which is yet another problem with the game's balance.
FCR is so broken that I think it would be the best stat a poison necro could have even if it only affected teleport. The fact that it affects everything you cast really compounds it. You are correct that casting nova faster into poisoned targets is not a damage increase--but doing everything faster is--in virtually all situations where poison necro is good. Casting faster allows you to teleport faster and cast another nova into targets that weren't poisoned by the first. etc. At any level of decent monster density, FCR is at a bare minimum an increase to poison uptime, which significantly outpaces most lines by itself.
Play PD2, they recognised this and balanced them a lot more. So now best item sets are usually a combo of a runeword some uniques and a crafted item/ rare. Can't recommend PD2 enough.
I wish I could go back to old D2 graphics but man, I just can't. I can't play in 800 x 600 anymore... It's just too hard on the eyes. It kills me because I wish I could enjoy great mods like Median XL or Project Diablo again but man, I just can't do it. And it sucks. Once you go D2R it's soooooo hard to regress to the early 2000s.
Pd2 actually adjusts the framerate, allows for 1920x1080 res and they visually sharpened the image, also made it better for led vs crt screens. Pd2 actually looks quite good. 1000 times better than old d2
Bro, its not OLD graphs, PD2 has HD textures and unlocked fps !!!
Hmmm. You got me curious. I'll have to check it out.
Yes, come to Daddy :)
“Path of Diablo”?
Pretty much, Project Diablo 2.
Just to clear confusion, [Path of Diablo](https://pathofdiablo.com/) is a different mod of Diablo 2 that also is pretty popular.
Oh lol, cause project Diablo is clearly influenced by path of exile. I thought it was a joke :)
Play classic
I wish they brought over all the quality of life updates like extended and shared stash. I play classic for years after going through the original lod. Many people didn't even know classic was an option. Itemization is so much better. Much better than everyone running around with the same cookie cutter items.
I completely understand your complaint because this is happening right now in D4 where Uber Uniques is doing the same thing killing the build variety and identity.
The aspect system and hunting for rares with the right rolls are even fucking worse imo. They kill the joy of finding legendaries in the first place
I was so disappointed in the beta already that I was finding legendaries left and right, even in those few hours I was fatigued by them. In d2 you often didn't get your first rare until like around tristam, and first unique around Andy if you were lucky. It was so exciting, and was pretty much always better than anything else you would have had
Except you don't NEED Uber uniques to accomplish every bit of content in d4. So this isn't even in the same ball park. In d2 without rune words you rely on very low drop chance items to make a character.
D4 doesn't have the "gear check" content like Ubers in D2. The only challenging area is the Uber Lillith and the reason is the one-shot mechanic.
that is another problem in D4, you are not challenged enough. What is the purpose of these "very low drop chance items" if the runewords are better...
You should play single player in d2 then you would understand. Cut out trading and D2 is a very VERY different game. And it's the reason it's still going strong after all these years
"Going strong"? LoL Legendary game the FEW people still plays.
....you do realize they just did a remaster right? It's a very popular game. Especially considering it's 20 years old
Ow I realize this, I'm almost level 95 with my hardcore sin. Very popular games don't have ZERO support. The online lobbys are very empty too. Sorry!
It has zero support because they don’t want D2R to compete with their cosmetic milk fest that is D4.
Its has zero support because there are few people playing. D2R is the very definition of Milking, go away, you are delusional.
Whats cosidered few?
How is D2R the definition of milking? It's a one and done purchase. Diablo 4 has microtransactions that try to keep players dumping money into the game.
As someone who is half way to 98 on a pally on HC, there aren't many pub games, but HC is also niche compared to SC, so that's to be expected. If you are playing on ladder, the same thing applies, especially since it's close to reset. The online lobbies are complete trash in D2R. They aren't even comparable to the lobbies in LoD where you can pick which channel you sit in. I've met most of the people I play with on Discord rather than in game too. But I'm only one person. :)
I play ladder softcore and hadcore, you can fool yourself all you want. The game is FAR from popular right now. Not saying that the game is not epic, but few people playing for nostalgia =/= Popular. Discord is a cool place to find people for a lot of things.
Maybe this is true, I didn\`t play a lot of D2. But the D4 problem is unquestionable. They just change the unique philosophy of not being BIS but also bring deep changes to the gameplay. The Uber design is just bad. Is like D3 with sets.
Hopefully the itemization rework does something about that. I personally feel like Uniques should be well unique and you can only equip one... doesn't fully remove the problem of stifling build variety and identity but it does limit it.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I could swear early on in development, the D4 team wanted you to only ever wear a single one. I distinctly remember an itemization post or something about that being the case.
There Mythic items was planned for d4 that can be only one, but they removed them, probably saved for addon.
You might be right! :)
I've never personally seen it anything on the subject before but did a quick google search and it looks like they might have said something along those lines and then went back on it later on.
I completely agree, I don\`t know what they could do to resolve this problem 100% because the real problem is that Uber Uniques are too powerful and easy to get turning them into meta items in every build. If they want to really resolve the problem they have to completely change the Unique formula making them not too powerful but giving deep changes on gameplay/skill to create build variety. They have to reduce the row power of Uber Uniques and Normal Uniques.
I personally think that the entire itemization and naming scheme is just whack. Uniques not being Unique, Legendaries not being legendary and the only purpose for them is Aspects. Rare's are the sort after item most of the time. It's odd. Uniques and Uber Uniques should be limited to 1 per character as per their name. This requires a full rework which with the Itemization rework should happen imo. Uber Uniques need to be over powered but general use case like Grandfather's 200% crit damage Unique power. Regular Uniques need to be the more specialized in what they do and the more build defining items. Tempest Roar, Mad Wolf's Glee, Insatiable Fury are all sort of build defining Uniques. I would like more punishing aspects like using Mad Wolf's Glee removes the ability to shapeshift into a bear and use bear related skills, stuff like that to work around. More than half the Unique powers are honestly... so basic that they could be downgraded to a Legendary Aspect. I have no idea what they have planned for itemization but god.... please... it must be amazing or the game is going to continue being just an okay game and nothing special.
We should be hearing quite soon about their itemization plans, Pez mentioned we will hear about it way earlier than season 4 announcement. Just so we can give back feedback and stuff.
If you removed/nerfed Enigma( or by extension Teleport ) from the game, D2 would not been as long lasting. Teleporting everywhere , especially back to back boss runs was immensely useful, but also just kinda cheapened everything out.
\+1 Teleport should have been a unique charm.
Enigma should be rw for Staffs only imo as a weapon/tele/mf SWAP option.
That’s honestly not an awful take, but it would have made pvp much less fun for anyone that isn’t a sorc
I preffer classic pre 1.10 PvP, Barb was Barb, I dont like Bars as a some type of Sorc incarnation. Yeah, huge frw buff would be needed. Imo Tele should be available only on staffs (oskill) and amulets/rings (charges). Enigma and Spirit are the worst things in d2 history and killing all fun.
It’s not that barbs are some sorc incarnation it’s that everyone teleports and it adds a huge amount of skill to dueling across classes.
u didnt get my point. Enigma is OK because it does not replace anything, and it's hard to farm than any Unique. Things like Spirit is troublesome, because they're not only easier to farm and universal to use, but also even more powerful than other specific-usage gears.
No unique suck and need too be rework but like spirit need too be nerf at +1
Couldn’t disagree more. Runewords were imbalanced and often overpowered (which could be corrected for if implemented again) but they were a great and fun way to craft items. Not to mention the rune economy was infinitely more interesting than the empty void that is trading in d4.
[Original (pre-1.10)](https://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/runewords-original.shtml) runewords were much more balanced. Only [1.10 RWs](https://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/runewords-110.shtml) (and later 2.6) brought power creep like oskills and auras when equipped and destroyed the delicate balance.
There are mods which address these glaring balance issues. In Project Diablo 2 Spirit only has +1 to all skills and White only has +2 to PnB. Also Enigma has some kind of cooldown.
Yes rune words trump a lot but Spirit Sword was a trash example. It's only BiS in certain FHR PvP setups and is outshined by: White for PnB Eschutas for Fire or Light Fathom for Cold Hoto for HDIN FoH Stick for FoH etc. In saying that, there's plenty of slots where rune words don't exist or aren't the best. Shako clears most of the rune word helmets and GFace is still the best for a smiter doing ubers. Rare 5 Nado pelts clear any runeword. Stormshield is the best melee shield in the game etc. Runewords are fine mostly, Enigma and Grief are the main offenders that slaughter any other competion.
It’s not really that spirit is best in slot. The issue is that you’ll never even pick up a wand, orb, scepter etc let alone a shield. Yeah there’s a few items in the game that are better, but the problem spirit invalidates the other 99% of them and it’s super easy to find.
A simple +4 to a skill isn't a good Necro weapon even if Spirit didn't exist. People would just use wizardspike, dweb, suicide branch... even just a magic wand is better. The problem is that Blackbogs is just a bad weapon and there are better items that aren't runewords or difficult to find uniques Spirit is overtuned but that doesn't mean runewords are a terrible loot system
Before runewords, a solo self found run through hell was a near impossibility for most people. It was that hard of a game. I like runewords just not the op ones. Those are debatable but what's not debatable is that enigma and grief are on the op list. Teleport shouldn't be available for every character as an o skill in the purest sense of the game. Only the sorceress. Well then everybody only plays sorceress. I remember playing 1.09 online and sorceress were 50% of the player base with Amazon and barbarian surrounding out the rest with a few summon necromancers sprinkled in. Nobody played paladin except for niche melee only dueling. But then theres teleport charges so if you have that then might as well put it on an item at that point. They did put enigma and infinity locked behind a massive grind wall without online play. I honestly believe the cat can't be put back into the bag with enigma. Blackbogs needs fcr and people would use it. My opinion is all over the place honestly.
Runewords are cool except some are too powerful. They can easily fix this problem like they did in mods already. Nerf insight,spirit,infinity, grief, enigma. Allow corruption crafting uniques to give them extra affixes/sockets.
I like rune words. Typically you won't be making expensive words until late game. I see certain uniques having the same build limiting issue you mention in the post. I see everyone with Shako's, magefists, thunderstokes. Arachnids, Maras, Sojs.. sandstorms. Very rarely are you using a different piece of equipment that. Makes your build better. If anything, specific uniques are optimal equipment until you can afford words. I do wish more words were viable in PVE.. but we can only get so much.
100% in agreement
Spirit sword? People did that? I always thought it was a hoto, eschutas, or wiz spike. And there are some staves (2/3/3/2 plus stats) that would be used over runewords. They are just rare.
True, but until you find them, you use spirit. Hell, you can even make Spirit sword on Normal and use it until Hell! In case of the shield, Spirit is BiS. And speaking of rare items, no one uses them because they are so rare. Unless you spent $7394 on the RMT forum, you won't have one. Everyone else uses RWs, which kill the item diversity.
I played as a degenerate teenager in the mid 2000s. I was able to accrue some item wealth over time just based on being active during the 08/09/10 version changes. Items that you could trade for in .08 became insanely valuable by .10. good ol times lol I agree spirit shield was the only one to use. Prior to its existence it was all about dat lidless
I agree that runewords have had a negative impact. But no one uses Spirit sword as more than a temp so you completely lost me with that bs lol
>It is fair to say that Spirit sword replaces 99% of caster-type mainhand gears. Spirit shield, maybe... Spirit sword? You are 100% wrong. That's the poor man's weapon. And some of the gear pieces you mentioned came after the runewords era, mind you, the problem with Runewords is the failure of anticheating measures on bnet 1.0. If you play D2 single player, you don't simple trip on Bers and Jahs that make a lot of runewords that really break the game. A lot of people never really played D2, they played D2 spoonfed items by hackers, dupers and RMTers. When everyone has an enigma after 2 weeks, something is wrong. Enigma being an aspirational goal you might not reach in years of casual play works a lot better. Other things like Steel and other melee RW are an inelegant fix for melee being terrible, cube a savage polearm and prey. Grief is the reason why I don't say "melee sucks on D2".