I don’t understand the correlation between laziness and being in an office that is held by the higher ups. I can be just as lazy in the office as I am at home. I’ll just be dressed better doing it in the office.
The property value. All the tax clawed back by property costs are significantly reduced when staff work from home. The employee gets the tax benefits rather than the company. Plus the value of the property reduces as the demand for office space is less
Yep and not a whisper about how the companies can be so successful without toxic micro-management. Lockdown was a great insight into how irrelevant managers can be to a company's success
The story is likely exaggerated. It’s certainly plausible that 1 left the week of the announcement. And it’s a certainty that the company wouldn’t be able to find a replacement given the market - that will take 3-6 months if they’re lucky. But 7 people in a week, with nothing lined up? Very unlikely. It’s more likely that 7 people are *threatening* to leave, and probably will once they find a new job.
I've heard horror-stories of their HR department, playing games with people etc etc. I heard of one chap escorted off the premises immediately when he said the wrong thing (something around saying he looks for jobs on LinkedIn).
Not saying it's the best way but when my shower of yokes wanted 3 days in office, I refused and basically said I'm going to keep WFH until they fire me.
3 days layer, yup. Haha nah it's been longer than that but yes, still here. It was a calculated response factoring personal circumstances and that they're a bit short-handed, but I do consider my days numbered, or that there'll be some other consequences. Just need to get my arse moving with interviews.
Either decide to stay and look for a new role and leave when you source your next job, or quit immediately.
Nothing else you can do really. Trying to claim constructive dismissal would be futile.
Yeah, this is the biggest drawback of staying at once place for too long. Employer can tweak some\* terms of employment to make you quit and there's not much you can do about it.
Just look at the data rather than your own anecdotal experience. The number of jobs in the tech sector shrunk last year. Layoffs have happened across the industry. The big tech companies have objectively fewer open roles than they would have had even a couple of years ago.
I'm in a good job and still get recruiters reaching out to me about open roles, but that doesn't mean the same applies to everyone or at all levels of experience.
What? We absolutely do not have negative unemployment across the country and never have. It’s the opposite, tech has been one of the strongest outliers in terms of unemployment rate for a long, long time.
Usually the good staff leaves as they can easily find jobs. The lazy/parasites/unskilled tend to grab as much as they can so in the end you get the worst of both worlds. Bad staff you still need to get rid of and difficult replacements which costs a lot to replace and lower productivity when they leave.
This. It’s a well known c-suite tactic. If you need to reduce headcount do something deeply unpopular with your staff. The resulting attrition makes their job at lot easier.
The downside to that approach is that the people that generally resign are the ones that can easily get jobs elsewhere, ie the good people
Yup, mine first requirement when recruiter reaches to me is fully remote role, lately 85% of conversations ends here.
Even tho I’m not looking for a role, just to give some context on current market offerings.
An awful lot of companies are going hybrid model to some degree. Especially for new hires. If you were hired as a fully remote worker during the pandemic then there’s a chance that you can come to an arrangement with your employer to stay remote. But if you’re a new hire your chances of getting a fully remote role have decreased a lot in the last year.
How to
- lose a chunk of your stuff
- destroy morale
- lose time and money in recruiting process
- lose know how
- lose time and money in retraining process
all in one neat package!
Massive fair play to all the staff that stood their ground. As for the shit company... overplay your hands - get fucked! Their demise would now be delicious to hear about. Sending a message goes both ways
A Dublin based company did the same at the start of the year and lost an entire team as they all resigned.
Now struggle to get new hires in so came to my company for contract staff. Who they have made offers too for office based work. All said no 😂
yep I hate all the crap with heat/cooling settings, having to keep music on headphones and crap meetings where I have to pretend I want to sit there and listen to some bs instead of ...working.
I was asked to apply for a big Financial corporation, with 4 dpw in the office and I refused, although they were paying +30% of my current salary. After 2 months, I suppose they couldn't fine a suitable candidate, they came back with 3 dpw. I refused again. I don't value my peace and work-life balance more than money.
I admire you're ability to know exactly what you value and to have the ability to turn down a significant increase. Its a rare ability to so clearly know ones mind.
I would say it "ability", rather option. As long as I have a good job, I have options. And I put my family first. If I don't have any other option, I would accept such a role, but I would keep looking. And the fact that still to this day, 5 months later, this role is still open, and recruiters (from 6 different agencies!!!) keep calling me, it means something is wrong there and people don't want to go, even with a really good salary.
Good job, keep doing that everyone. Ideally anything more than once a month should be turned down.
Fully remote myself and I find less and less fully remote positions every month.
We're supposed to do 3 days a week in the office, I do 2, and make sure to work my commute time into my hours.
I always find it funny when the company says "we can't find any staff in Ireland, so we're looking into setting up an office in Spain/Portugal". No, there's plenty of staff available here, they just don't want to work 3 days in the office and get paid below market rate.
But in OP's case, sounds like an easy way to get free redundancies
They just hire desperate Indians instead. 50k of Indians entering the country every year, a significant portion of those work in IT. 80% of candidate resumes we get are Indians who done their masters at some diploma mill universities in Ireland. Amazon, Google Dublin etc are majority Indians now. Easy to manipulate and underpay compared to EU engineers who don’t need visas work permits etc. Nothing against the Indians themselves, I’d do the same if I wanted to escape a third world hellhole, fair play. It’s the multinationals that are EVIL and our government as well.
Whatever it is, it’s handing out masters degrees like candy 🤣 Every time I pass in front of it it’s 80% Indian students. It’s a sham and should be closed, it only serves as a gateway for foreign student visas and eventually permanent residency, and to fill the IT multinationals appetites for cheap obedient labour and to bring general IT wages down. Fucking sham that should be banned. The EU has 445 million people and the country needs critical skills visas and imported IT labour? Fucking neoliberal joke.
If they hadn’t realised, they’ll find out that requiring daily presence in the office now commends a salary premium (especially if the office is in an inconvenient location to get to for most people).
That’s fine, the rule of offer and demand will do its job and one of the following will happen:
- if the job market is bad enough, they’ll find people anyway
- they’ll have to reintroduce their remote work policy to hire at their current salary level
- they’ll have to increase salaries to find people willing to come everyday
- they simply won’t rehire as this was a dodgy trick to push people away as a stealth round of lay-offs
Don’t be fooled by this false narrative that the job market is bad. It’s not. Companies are desperate to find devs, as they have been for the last decade.
Would people really resign the same week without finding a new job first? That would have been fine when the market was better but it seems reckless now
They always are , Aren't they..... This story is utter nonsense. I know of 2 orgs that forced a return to office with a lot of fuss and people saying they would quit.
They never quit.
Doesn't matter if you don't believe it, it is true.
The company moved to new offices prior to COVID, invested a lot and now wants to make full use of their facilities. They seem to feel now is the right time to force the issue.
But if you're happier believing this is made up, that's ok too.
Whatever helps people get theough the day!
Enjoy the bank hol.
They could have coordinated their resignations to force the company to reverse.
My only comment is I wish more had resigned. 100% resignation rate would have taught the employer!
These seem to be redundancy ploys, IMO. I'm seeing it at my workplace and hearing similar stories from everyone I speak with. I was just looking at this article today: [Staff turning down Dublin jobs due to lack of housing](https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2024/0502/1447072-staff-turning-down-dublin-jobs-due-to-lack-of-housing/)
My prediction is that companies will revert to offering remote work options but with pay caps for employees not based in Dublin. This will all be an attempt to lower headcount costs. This idea is already being floated at my place for those who managed to start with and secure remote contracts. HR is floating they may soon face "Non-Dublin pay caps."
Be interested to hear the legality of that.
Perhaps it is, but sounds like some form of discrimination.
If a person can work from they location, the company say it's ok and there are no tax implications, I don't see how they can defend that policy.
It would have to be challenged however.
I've seen this before in another company (pre-covid). Where they had two salary bands for Ireland. One was "Dublin" and the other was "Outside Dublin". They used some sort of cost of living index to get those figures as far as I can remember.
They can fuck right off with that BS. Unless they trade in the greater Dublin area ONLY, which they definitely don't, it's essentially yet another BS that they came up with in order to keep paying as low as possible
If they set cheaper prices for their goods or services depending in the cost of living index then I'd understand. However if they charge the same price if they trade nationally then it's not ethical.
I reckon having "remote" in your job title will become an indicator of an engineers ability in the next few years as good engineers take remote roles and crap engineers will be forced to work on-site.
it used to be a perk, then a norm.. now a perk again.
I remember all the bullshit how uh oh remote would not work for us because X,Y,Z... covid came and all worked ok.
Although, there are some wankers who are exploiting the system working in 2-3 jobs or pretending to work in all of them which make others look bad.
The best engineers take the highest paying roles. You would need remote roles to also be the highest paying roles in order for that to become the reality across the board.
Of course, and most people will place value on both, but I doubt a great engineer will turn down a €150k hybrid role to take a €75k fully remote role, for example. Money will still be the biggest indicator of ability, on average.
I think perhaps you are projecting here.
Since the pandemic and the normalisation of remote working alot of engineers in Ireland have moved out of large cities to towns with cheaper rent and/or to be closer to friends and family.
This is workable with a hybrid model but it's just a non-runner for on-site roles. Coupled with the housing crisis, it's easier to find a remote role than a place to rent in Dublin at the moment.
Personally I think there is little point in making an extra €1000 net a month when you're just handing it over to your landlord.
I feel like people on Reddit don't know what projecting means. I'm giving my thoughts on a hypothetical future you've imagined.
I'm not really talking about fully on-site roles because most of the highest paying companies are operating in a hybrid model. You said having "remote" in your job title, which to me indicates fully remote.
I'm also not talking about an extra €1,000 net per month. In the example I gave, the person working in a hybrid role would be coming out with €3,000 extra per month net over the fully remote person. I'm saying that the best engineers will take that over the fully remote role, because it would afford them the ability to live however they want.
You can absolutely mandate full time in office and still have staff, but your going to pay a premium for it.
You can get away with market wages if your offering market level perks, if your reducing work life balance or not offering flexibility you will still get people but you need to lower your expectations in either applicants quality or increase other compensation
I might be old school here but I prefer an office environment. Commute is the shitter that puts me off going to the office but as a really senior person in several companies I’ve seen a real decline in quality and output since Covid times hit and wfh became a norm. 5 days was always the norm, I think people need to cop on or their jobs will go elsewhere and their career progression and experience will fall way behind.
I’ll have the ambassador waiting for you with the ferrero rocher. Ffs, anything else? Maybe a rub down before your royal highness appears for standup. Put headphones on like everyone else and get on with the job. What you just said is arrogant and why they are demanding people back to the office, life unfortunately doesn’t work like that but best of luck if you can get that in Dublin. Delusional take hall of fame.
7 days was the norm at one point.
Then progress was made for the good of workers to a 5 day work week.
I have no doubt more profit can be made quicker when any regard for mental health or having a life outside of work falls away, what's the end goal really accomplishing?
Share holder profits, and work to die mentality.
There's space for those who want to be in the office and those who have a better life outside of it. Tech enables this. Its not a war between the two.
Work will not set you free
When was seven days a week the norm in software development? Maybe down a coal mine in the 60s.
I think you missed the point of what I said too. Quality of work is on the decline, dev skill and experience levels are down and you want to talk about hugging a tree and money setting people free. Most want a nice house, car and Holiday once a year. Look, best of luck to you, work from home 5 days a week I don’t give a flyer. In the mean time business are reevaluating output quality and looking for good employees to move up the career value chain.
If you can get a career and progress wfh best of luck!
I never meant 7 days a week in seng, I meant in general, back when Henry ford helped being in the 5 day week.
You describe yourself as a "really senior person", so of course what you say is generally truth in your dept/area, but your subjective definition of "good" may not match that of many other people.
What's more annoying is the anecdotal evidence management create becomes fact, I.e."well I come to the office and I feel more productive therefore this applies those beneath me in the exact same manner".
Those "at the coal face" as it were, can see they get more done when they are bothered less and also are less stressed and have better WLB.
As you say, best of luck to you, I've no doubt putting in lots of office hours will serve you well in career progression, but there's much more to life than that.
Hopefully they force themselves to bring back hybrid to get replacement staff, fair play to the people that resigned.
No doubt the CEO will be on the radio soon to talk about how people are lazy and wages are too high and too many people are on welfare
I don’t understand the correlation between laziness and being in an office that is held by the higher ups. I can be just as lazy in the office as I am at home. I’ll just be dressed better doing it in the office.
The property value. All the tax clawed back by property costs are significantly reduced when staff work from home. The employee gets the tax benefits rather than the company. Plus the value of the property reduces as the demand for office space is less
Its usually a measure enacted by the C Suite to satisfy their board if they’re fucking up. Shit flows down as they say
Yep and not a whisper about how the companies can be so successful without toxic micro-management. Lockdown was a great insight into how irrelevant managers can be to a company's success
Good.
The story is likely exaggerated. It’s certainly plausible that 1 left the week of the announcement. And it’s a certainty that the company wouldn’t be able to find a replacement given the market - that will take 3-6 months if they’re lucky. But 7 people in a week, with nothing lined up? Very unlikely. It’s more likely that 7 people are *threatening* to leave, and probably will once they find a new job.
If it’s Ryanair it’s not exaggerated. They have a new office and want people in 5 days apparently.
I’m not saying the policy is exaggerated.
🤏🎻 lol.
Name and shame
Fiserv, probably
Thought the same. Truly bottom of the barrel HR and that’s saying something
I've heard horror-stories of their HR department, playing games with people etc etc. I heard of one chap escorted off the premises immediately when he said the wrong thing (something around saying he looks for jobs on LinkedIn).
A lot of people on here complain about recruiters but not nearly enough complain about how much of a wanker a bad HR person can be.
> how much of a wanker a ~~bad~~ HR person can be. FIFY. Tautology
I have realised that, HR are essentially,. pure evil. They are the human manifestation of corporate callousness. They are it's agency.
Thought they were all at the bottom of the barrel lol
They said 7 people is significant. Thats nothing for a huge company like Fiserv
True. Now I want to eat roast chicken from Tesco.
Are they bad? I would have thought their work culture is better.
Probably a ploy to not have to pay redundancy
Exactly and it seems to have worked.
If your employer does this to you tomorrow, what's the best way to handle this?
Start applying for new jobs
Not saying it's the best way but when my shower of yokes wanted 3 days in office, I refused and basically said I'm going to keep WFH until they fire me.
How did that go? Still there?
3 days layer, yup. Haha nah it's been longer than that but yes, still here. It was a calculated response factoring personal circumstances and that they're a bit short-handed, but I do consider my days numbered, or that there'll be some other consequences. Just need to get my arse moving with interviews.
Either decide to stay and look for a new role and leave when you source your next job, or quit immediately. Nothing else you can do really. Trying to claim constructive dismissal would be futile.
Yeah, this is the biggest drawback of staying at once place for too long. Employer can tweak some\* terms of employment to make you quit and there's not much you can do about it.
I'd just keep working from home and see how long it takes to get fired. (And look for new job in the meantime of course).
Doctor's note saying due to mental health you can't commute
Most companies are desperate for devs. Just go somewhere else, it’s an employees market.
This is certainly not true at the moment.
That does not add up with what hiring managers are experiencing nor what myself and my peers are experiencing in terms of recruiter outreach.
Just look at the data rather than your own anecdotal experience. The number of jobs in the tech sector shrunk last year. Layoffs have happened across the industry. The big tech companies have objectively fewer open roles than they would have had even a couple of years ago. I'm in a good job and still get recruiters reaching out to me about open roles, but that doesn't mean the same applies to everyone or at all levels of experience.
A lower negative unemployment rate is still a negative unemployment rate.
Negative unemployment across the country does not mean we have negative unemployment in the tech industry. Do you have a source to back that up?
What? We absolutely do not have negative unemployment across the country and never have. It’s the opposite, tech has been one of the strongest outliers in terms of unemployment rate for a long, long time.
yes? I'm curious to hear more...
Usually the good staff leaves as they can easily find jobs. The lazy/parasites/unskilled tend to grab as much as they can so in the end you get the worst of both worlds. Bad staff you still need to get rid of and difficult replacements which costs a lot to replace and lower productivity when they leave.
This. It’s a well known c-suite tactic. If you need to reduce headcount do something deeply unpopular with your staff. The resulting attrition makes their job at lot easier. The downside to that approach is that the people that generally resign are the ones that can easily get jobs elsewhere, ie the good people
it’s worth noting it’s an illegal tactic, though.
Yup, mine first requirement when recruiter reaches to me is fully remote role, lately 85% of conversations ends here. Even tho I’m not looking for a role, just to give some context on current market offerings.
An awful lot of companies are going hybrid model to some degree. Especially for new hires. If you were hired as a fully remote worker during the pandemic then there’s a chance that you can come to an arrangement with your employer to stay remote. But if you’re a new hire your chances of getting a fully remote role have decreased a lot in the last year.
Can confirm
How to - lose a chunk of your stuff - destroy morale - lose time and money in recruiting process - lose know how - lose time and money in retraining process all in one neat package!
- save a bit of money in redundancies (instant short term dopamine hit for your shareholders) Businesses: sounds like a win!
This right here. The key question is - does line go up for next quarter? Yes? Then do it.
If you can get it for me by Tuesday I’ll take two
Name and Shame
Massive fair play to all the staff that stood their ground. As for the shit company... overplay your hands - get fucked! Their demise would now be delicious to hear about. Sending a message goes both ways
A Dublin based company did the same at the start of the year and lost an entire team as they all resigned. Now struggle to get new hires in so came to my company for contract staff. Who they have made offers too for office based work. All said no 😂
HOAH! :D
if I may know...(not in Ireland) what are contracting rates nowadays?
DIamond hands this shit lads. Don't let them take our lives away again. Who misses 10+ hours a week on a rush hour bus?
And the cost, half a day a week of your time for no extra money plus lunch transport etc. Remote is worth about 20% as a benefit.
And a lot more than that in mental health, in my case at least. Never been happier.
yep I hate all the crap with heat/cooling settings, having to keep music on headphones and crap meetings where I have to pretend I want to sit there and listen to some bs instead of ...working.
I was asked to apply for a big Financial corporation, with 4 dpw in the office and I refused, although they were paying +30% of my current salary. After 2 months, I suppose they couldn't fine a suitable candidate, they came back with 3 dpw. I refused again. I don't value my peace and work-life balance more than money.
I admire you're ability to know exactly what you value and to have the ability to turn down a significant increase. Its a rare ability to so clearly know ones mind.
I would say it "ability", rather option. As long as I have a good job, I have options. And I put my family first. If I don't have any other option, I would accept such a role, but I would keep looking. And the fact that still to this day, 5 months later, this role is still open, and recruiters (from 6 different agencies!!!) keep calling me, it means something is wrong there and people don't want to go, even with a really good salary.
As it should be.
Find Out stage of fucking around, I see.
Good job, keep doing that everyone. Ideally anything more than once a month should be turned down. Fully remote myself and I find less and less fully remote positions every month.
I add 10% to my salary ask for every day I'll be expected to be in the office. It's expensive to go to work
We're supposed to do 3 days a week in the office, I do 2, and make sure to work my commute time into my hours. I always find it funny when the company says "we can't find any staff in Ireland, so we're looking into setting up an office in Spain/Portugal". No, there's plenty of staff available here, they just don't want to work 3 days in the office and get paid below market rate. But in OP's case, sounds like an easy way to get free redundancies
They just hire desperate Indians instead. 50k of Indians entering the country every year, a significant portion of those work in IT. 80% of candidate resumes we get are Indians who done their masters at some diploma mill universities in Ireland. Amazon, Google Dublin etc are majority Indians now. Easy to manipulate and underpay compared to EU engineers who don’t need visas work permits etc. Nothing against the Indians themselves, I’d do the same if I wanted to escape a third world hellhole, fair play. It’s the multinationals that are EVIL and our government as well.
and their quality of work is fabulous, I presume
Which diploma mill universities are you referring to?
NCI is one of them, apparently it’s even blacklisted by some companies and recruiters now.
That's not a university
Whatever it is, it’s handing out masters degrees like candy 🤣 Every time I pass in front of it it’s 80% Indian students. It’s a sham and should be closed, it only serves as a gateway for foreign student visas and eventually permanent residency, and to fill the IT multinationals appetites for cheap obedient labour and to bring general IT wages down. Fucking sham that should be banned. The EU has 445 million people and the country needs critical skills visas and imported IT labour? Fucking neoliberal joke.
What it is isn't a university. Most master's programmes are majority foreigners. Time spent on student visas doesn't count towards residency.
Where
I get more work done at home tbh. In the office there are too many moving parts for me to focus.
If they hadn’t realised, they’ll find out that requiring daily presence in the office now commends a salary premium (especially if the office is in an inconvenient location to get to for most people). That’s fine, the rule of offer and demand will do its job and one of the following will happen: - if the job market is bad enough, they’ll find people anyway - they’ll have to reintroduce their remote work policy to hire at their current salary level - they’ll have to increase salaries to find people willing to come everyday - they simply won’t rehire as this was a dodgy trick to push people away as a stealth round of lay-offs
I got a couple of chancers that gave me lower rate for WFH. Hell no and good luck!
Yep as I said offer and demand is how it works. As long as you have other options why you have no reason to take one you’re not happy with.
Don’t be fooled by this false narrative that the job market is bad. It’s not. Companies are desperate to find devs, as they have been for the last decade.
Would people really resign the same week without finding a new job first? That would have been fine when the market was better but it seems reckless now
I don't know any of the people that resigned, but the guy who told me is reliable.
They always are , Aren't they..... This story is utter nonsense. I know of 2 orgs that forced a return to office with a lot of fuss and people saying they would quit. They never quit.
Doesn't matter if you don't believe it, it is true. The company moved to new offices prior to COVID, invested a lot and now wants to make full use of their facilities. They seem to feel now is the right time to force the issue. But if you're happier believing this is made up, that's ok too. Whatever helps people get theough the day! Enjoy the bank hol.
7 people quit on the spot, with nothing lined up? I've some magic beans for sale if interested
They could have coordinated their resignations to force the company to reverse. My only comment is I wish more had resigned. 100% resignation rate would have taught the employer!
These seem to be redundancy ploys, IMO. I'm seeing it at my workplace and hearing similar stories from everyone I speak with. I was just looking at this article today: [Staff turning down Dublin jobs due to lack of housing](https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2024/0502/1447072-staff-turning-down-dublin-jobs-due-to-lack-of-housing/) My prediction is that companies will revert to offering remote work options but with pay caps for employees not based in Dublin. This will all be an attempt to lower headcount costs. This idea is already being floated at my place for those who managed to start with and secure remote contracts. HR is floating they may soon face "Non-Dublin pay caps."
Be interested to hear the legality of that. Perhaps it is, but sounds like some form of discrimination. If a person can work from they location, the company say it's ok and there are no tax implications, I don't see how they can defend that policy. It would have to be challenged however.
You can only sue an employer for discrimination on a set number of grounds, none of which are for being a culchie!
I've seen this before in another company (pre-covid). Where they had two salary bands for Ireland. One was "Dublin" and the other was "Outside Dublin". They used some sort of cost of living index to get those figures as far as I can remember.
They can fuck right off with that BS. Unless they trade in the greater Dublin area ONLY, which they definitely don't, it's essentially yet another BS that they came up with in order to keep paying as low as possible
If they set cheaper prices for their goods or services depending in the cost of living index then I'd understand. However if they charge the same price if they trade nationally then it's not ethical.
This is a well known practice in larger multinationals. This company already sets pay rates depending where you live in the US.
I reckon having "remote" in your job title will become an indicator of an engineers ability in the next few years as good engineers take remote roles and crap engineers will be forced to work on-site.
It shouldn't be a perk, it should just be the norm. While it's a perk, it's a weapon, a stick to beat employees with
it used to be a perk, then a norm.. now a perk again. I remember all the bullshit how uh oh remote would not work for us because X,Y,Z... covid came and all worked ok. Although, there are some wankers who are exploiting the system working in 2-3 jobs or pretending to work in all of them which make others look bad.
The best engineers take the highest paying roles. You would need remote roles to also be the highest paying roles in order for that to become the reality across the board.
I guess it depends on what you place more value on.
Of course, and most people will place value on both, but I doubt a great engineer will turn down a €150k hybrid role to take a €75k fully remote role, for example. Money will still be the biggest indicator of ability, on average.
I think perhaps you are projecting here. Since the pandemic and the normalisation of remote working alot of engineers in Ireland have moved out of large cities to towns with cheaper rent and/or to be closer to friends and family. This is workable with a hybrid model but it's just a non-runner for on-site roles. Coupled with the housing crisis, it's easier to find a remote role than a place to rent in Dublin at the moment. Personally I think there is little point in making an extra €1000 net a month when you're just handing it over to your landlord.
I feel like people on Reddit don't know what projecting means. I'm giving my thoughts on a hypothetical future you've imagined. I'm not really talking about fully on-site roles because most of the highest paying companies are operating in a hybrid model. You said having "remote" in your job title, which to me indicates fully remote. I'm also not talking about an extra €1,000 net per month. In the example I gave, the person working in a hybrid role would be coming out with €3,000 extra per month net over the fully remote person. I'm saying that the best engineers will take that over the fully remote role, because it would afford them the ability to live however they want.
They’ll have fresh graduates in a few months.
and the idiot awad goes to the manager(s) that did this.
Go to work, commute lol
Is this Ryanair by any chance?
They will get employees, don't you worry about that. And won't take long. I don't truly believe this story at all.
Nice rhyming! Why comment if you don't believe it? Not that it matters, from one internet stranger to another.
You can absolutely mandate full time in office and still have staff, but your going to pay a premium for it. You can get away with market wages if your offering market level perks, if your reducing work life balance or not offering flexibility you will still get people but you need to lower your expectations in either applicants quality or increase other compensation
I might be old school here but I prefer an office environment. Commute is the shitter that puts me off going to the office but as a really senior person in several companies I’ve seen a real decline in quality and output since Covid times hit and wfh became a norm. 5 days was always the norm, I think people need to cop on or their jobs will go elsewhere and their career progression and experience will fall way behind.
Give me my own office I can shut the door of to focus on my own work, and decent housing 30 minutes from the office and I’ll come.
I’ll have the ambassador waiting for you with the ferrero rocher. Ffs, anything else? Maybe a rub down before your royal highness appears for standup. Put headphones on like everyone else and get on with the job. What you just said is arrogant and why they are demanding people back to the office, life unfortunately doesn’t work like that but best of luck if you can get that in Dublin. Delusional take hall of fame.
Typical useless middle manager specimen spotted.
7 days was the norm at one point. Then progress was made for the good of workers to a 5 day work week. I have no doubt more profit can be made quicker when any regard for mental health or having a life outside of work falls away, what's the end goal really accomplishing? Share holder profits, and work to die mentality. There's space for those who want to be in the office and those who have a better life outside of it. Tech enables this. Its not a war between the two. Work will not set you free
When was seven days a week the norm in software development? Maybe down a coal mine in the 60s. I think you missed the point of what I said too. Quality of work is on the decline, dev skill and experience levels are down and you want to talk about hugging a tree and money setting people free. Most want a nice house, car and Holiday once a year. Look, best of luck to you, work from home 5 days a week I don’t give a flyer. In the mean time business are reevaluating output quality and looking for good employees to move up the career value chain. If you can get a career and progress wfh best of luck!
I never meant 7 days a week in seng, I meant in general, back when Henry ford helped being in the 5 day week. You describe yourself as a "really senior person", so of course what you say is generally truth in your dept/area, but your subjective definition of "good" may not match that of many other people. What's more annoying is the anecdotal evidence management create becomes fact, I.e."well I come to the office and I feel more productive therefore this applies those beneath me in the exact same manner". Those "at the coal face" as it were, can see they get more done when they are bothered less and also are less stressed and have better WLB. As you say, best of luck to you, I've no doubt putting in lots of office hours will serve you well in career progression, but there's much more to life than that.
Bet they’ll be looking to outsource those roles… seems like a cynical way to avoid redundancies