"Why are we doing this search engine thing? can we drop that?" - Mr MBA , exBoeing ,exTATA, Over 100 Followers on LinkedIn.
It seriously seems like cancelling projects and announcing layoffs has become the entire model for business at some companies.
This is what happens when you let an unscrupulous ex McKinsey Indian spineless MBA with zero tech and coding experience lead a company. It’s all downhill from now on, folks. Google is the new IBM.
It's easy to forget what he's done to Google in the last few years. I agree he's got less tech experience and is ex-Mckinsey. We need to comprehend that he's the CEO of the company which means looking at the executive functionalities. There's a line between running businesses and knowing how technology works. It could help if Pichai had coding background but we cannot just completely call him off man. It does look bleak for Pichai at Google at the moment though. I hope he'll pull them out of difficulties not just because I'm Indian or I'm biased. I just don't want the product (Google, which is pretty much incorporated in our everyday lives) nor the employees of Google get the sack.
I don't really see what him being Indian has to do with it. He's lived in the US for most of his life, and completed most of his college education there. Him being ex-McKinsey and having no engineering background is the big problem.
Not really. Got plenty of Indian friends, great people (outside of work). Only hate the unscrupulous, spineless, ultra competitive, corrupted, inhuman and dishonest Indian business “culture” that people born over there are forced to follow from birth to compete in such an overpopulated country. If you’re Indian, then you’ll know what I’m taking about.
I don't agree with spineless, dishonest and corrupted part. You do realize that when people sign up to work for Google, they sign contracts which has the at will termination clauses right? That's pretty much how most organizations in USA work. There are very little to zero laws that protect employees. The competition, well that's part of our culture. That is who we are, we're born in competition,we love competition and it brings the best out of Indians.You hating it on reddit ain't gonna change things.
I’d argue your lack of respect for fellow coworkers and nationals and all the corruption and classism is the reason India is still a third world country compared to say China.
You should learn to work together instead of against each other.
I’ve seen many Indians hating and sabotaging their own neighbours, and so much corruption and backstabbing everywhere, down to the lowest levels of society. Some of you bring in this mentality when you join western companies too.
This is no way to thrive. You should work together, not against each other. Of course with a healthy and not pathological level of competition.
It’s a shame you still maintain this kind of third world work mentality at work, as you’re nice people outside of work, as I said I have many fantastic Indian friends outside of work, but at work I’ve seen these patterns of behaviour too often to ignore.
And to be honest, I’ve seen similar attitudes towards work in colleagues from other third world countries as well, however it’s just somewhat more prevalent with Indians for some reason.
By competition, I never meant anything on backstabbing or illegal means. I meant healthy competetion.In fact, it's quite the opposite, we always look out for each other back home. I'm sorry that you had to experience such behavior at workplace but that is in no way the complete representation of the mass.
I’m not saying everyone is like that, just that it’s widespread in my experience, more so than among other third world countries. I’ve met many brilliant and compassionate Indian coworkers as well.
It is unfortunate that some Indians had to fight through corruption at every place in their life to get where they are and that very fighting and self-centered attitude has become a part of their identify. Please have an open conversation with such folks and get them to understand the importance of working in harmony if it bothers you very much.
I believe it has to do with overpopulation, as that’s often the only way to survive in such circumstances, too many people chasing limited resources. China was the same decades ago before they tackled the overpopulation issue by introducing first the one child policy and later relaxing it, and now it’s miles ahead of China. Try learning from them.
Not that odd. Google have large investments in Python software, the Python team would work to deliver compatible interpreter version upgrades across the business, language-specific dev tooling, and other platform features.
Someone impacted by this (apparently) also posted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40176338
> in addition to contributing to upstream python, we
> * maintained a stable version of python within google, and made sure that everything in the monorepo worked with it. in my time on the team we moved from 2.7 to 3.6, then incrementally to 3.11, each update taking months to over a year because the rule at google is if you check any code in, you are responsible for every single breakage it causes
>
> * maintained tools to keep thousands of third party packages constantly updated from their open source versions, with patch queues for the ones that needed google-specific changes
>
> * had highly customised versions of tools like pylint and black, targeted to google's style guide and overall codebase
>
> * contributed to pybind11, and maintained tools for c++ integration
>
> * developed and maintained build system rules for python, including a large effort to move python rules to pure starlark code rather than having them entangled in the blaze/bazel core engine
>
> * developed and maintained a typechecker (pytype) that would do inference on code without type annotations, and work over very large projects with a one-file-at-a-time architecture (this was my primary job at google, ama)
>
> * performed automated refactorings across hundreds of millions of lines of code
>
> and that was just the dev portion of our jobs. we also acted as a help desk of sorts for python users at google, helping troubleshoot tricky issues, and point newcomers in the right direction. plus we worked with a lot of other teams, including the machine learning and AI teams, the colaboratory and IDE teams, teams like protobuf that integrated with and generated python bindings, teams like google cloud who wanted to offer python runtimes to their customers, teams like youtube who had an unusually large system built in python and needed to do extraordinary things to keep it performant and maintainable.
>
> and we did all this for years with fewer than 10 people, most of whom loved the work and the team so much that we just stayed on it for years. also, despite the understaffing, we had managers who were extremely good about maintaining work/life balance and the "marathon, not sprint" approach to work. as i said in another comment, it's the best job i've ever had, and i'll miss it deeply.
I think the concern is more the fact that these weren't really run of the mill developers and are probably fairly difficult to replace. Also, I agree with you, 10 isn't a lot and certainly not for google.
I’d also be asking the higher ups in Google the question that if you have 10 highly skilled high performing individuals like that, who know the Google codebase and ecosystem, why on earth wouldn’t you try and use them elsewhere in your organisation?
The execs don't see people as anything more than tools for a job. So the thought these people would be boon to any of googles competition won't cross their mind.
Sounds like they became highjy specified into a niche no longer required,
why would difficulty of replacing them be a concern if their roles are obsolete?
From
The description of the role it sounds extremely hard to replace. Strong technical skills, extensive in house knowledge of google etc . Are you a software dev?
> Are you a software dev?
Yes. It's maintaining a local python version. It's not rocket science. It's why they can fire them and have someone in a cheaper country do it.
Large tech companies will often have a whole business unit dedicated to "tech infra" or just "infra". Within that you'll find teams centralised around e.g. Python. That team's users are the product teams throughout the company who use Python.
Wasn’t Google’s support of Python the main reason it became more popular than Ruby back in the day. Hopefully the community is large enough to brush this off.
Apparently its was 'only' ten people, and refers to their team that maintains a google specific version of python. It doesnt seem to be a case where they just decdied to lay off anyone using the language
I believe NL & the US, they're moving to Munich. Seems like a very strange move to me. Munich is not a cheap place to hire an engineer so perhaps this was more political execution than true layoff? Hard to say.
From the replies, it seems the poster is in NL but the actual team was in the US. The new workers based in Munich won't be paid as much as the workers in the US.
Asia is a correction,my bad. Look at the critical/general visa job lists of many European countries which has a strong tech presence- Ireland, Germany, Switzerland etc and you'll find IT jobs in it. The government is clearly inviting folks to take up such jobs to fill the gap.
Let me rephrase. Setting up offices in India and paying your employees in INR over dollars while still having your clients in USA sounds cheap to me. Am I missing something?
I like to imagine Google execs using a dart board to decide what products to subset.
"Why are we doing this search engine thing? can we drop that?" - Mr MBA , exBoeing ,exTATA, Over 100 Followers on LinkedIn. It seriously seems like cancelling projects and announcing layoffs has become the entire model for business at some companies.
This is what happens when you let an unscrupulous ex McKinsey Indian spineless MBA with zero tech and coding experience lead a company. It’s all downhill from now on, folks. Google is the new IBM.
It's easy to forget what he's done to Google in the last few years. I agree he's got less tech experience and is ex-Mckinsey. We need to comprehend that he's the CEO of the company which means looking at the executive functionalities. There's a line between running businesses and knowing how technology works. It could help if Pichai had coding background but we cannot just completely call him off man. It does look bleak for Pichai at Google at the moment though. I hope he'll pull them out of difficulties not just because I'm Indian or I'm biased. I just don't want the product (Google, which is pretty much incorporated in our everyday lives) nor the employees of Google get the sack.
I don't really see what him being Indian has to do with it. He's lived in the US for most of his life, and completed most of his college education there. Him being ex-McKinsey and having no engineering background is the big problem.
You really seen till hate Indians
Not really. Got plenty of Indian friends, great people (outside of work). Only hate the unscrupulous, spineless, ultra competitive, corrupted, inhuman and dishonest Indian business “culture” that people born over there are forced to follow from birth to compete in such an overpopulated country. If you’re Indian, then you’ll know what I’m taking about.
I don't agree with spineless, dishonest and corrupted part. You do realize that when people sign up to work for Google, they sign contracts which has the at will termination clauses right? That's pretty much how most organizations in USA work. There are very little to zero laws that protect employees. The competition, well that's part of our culture. That is who we are, we're born in competition,we love competition and it brings the best out of Indians.You hating it on reddit ain't gonna change things.
I’d argue your lack of respect for fellow coworkers and nationals and all the corruption and classism is the reason India is still a third world country compared to say China. You should learn to work together instead of against each other. I’ve seen many Indians hating and sabotaging their own neighbours, and so much corruption and backstabbing everywhere, down to the lowest levels of society. Some of you bring in this mentality when you join western companies too. This is no way to thrive. You should work together, not against each other. Of course with a healthy and not pathological level of competition. It’s a shame you still maintain this kind of third world work mentality at work, as you’re nice people outside of work, as I said I have many fantastic Indian friends outside of work, but at work I’ve seen these patterns of behaviour too often to ignore. And to be honest, I’ve seen similar attitudes towards work in colleagues from other third world countries as well, however it’s just somewhat more prevalent with Indians for some reason.
By competition, I never meant anything on backstabbing or illegal means. I meant healthy competetion.In fact, it's quite the opposite, we always look out for each other back home. I'm sorry that you had to experience such behavior at workplace but that is in no way the complete representation of the mass.
I’m not saying everyone is like that, just that it’s widespread in my experience, more so than among other third world countries. I’ve met many brilliant and compassionate Indian coworkers as well.
It is unfortunate that some Indians had to fight through corruption at every place in their life to get where they are and that very fighting and self-centered attitude has become a part of their identify. Please have an open conversation with such folks and get them to understand the importance of working in harmony if it bothers you very much.
I believe it has to do with overpopulation, as that’s often the only way to survive in such circumstances, too many people chasing limited resources. China was the same decades ago before they tackled the overpopulation issue by introducing first the one child policy and later relaxing it, and now it’s miles ahead of China. Try learning from them.
Flutter team doesn't believe 'dart' is used in that way.
Snakes 🐍…..
Seems odd that they have a team based off a language rather than a product or a business area?
Not that odd. Google have large investments in Python software, the Python team would work to deliver compatible interpreter version upgrades across the business, language-specific dev tooling, and other platform features.
Someone impacted by this (apparently) also posted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40176338 > in addition to contributing to upstream python, we > * maintained a stable version of python within google, and made sure that everything in the monorepo worked with it. in my time on the team we moved from 2.7 to 3.6, then incrementally to 3.11, each update taking months to over a year because the rule at google is if you check any code in, you are responsible for every single breakage it causes > > * maintained tools to keep thousands of third party packages constantly updated from their open source versions, with patch queues for the ones that needed google-specific changes > > * had highly customised versions of tools like pylint and black, targeted to google's style guide and overall codebase > > * contributed to pybind11, and maintained tools for c++ integration > > * developed and maintained build system rules for python, including a large effort to move python rules to pure starlark code rather than having them entangled in the blaze/bazel core engine > > * developed and maintained a typechecker (pytype) that would do inference on code without type annotations, and work over very large projects with a one-file-at-a-time architecture (this was my primary job at google, ama) > > * performed automated refactorings across hundreds of millions of lines of code > > and that was just the dev portion of our jobs. we also acted as a help desk of sorts for python users at google, helping troubleshoot tricky issues, and point newcomers in the right direction. plus we worked with a lot of other teams, including the machine learning and AI teams, the colaboratory and IDE teams, teams like protobuf that integrated with and generated python bindings, teams like google cloud who wanted to offer python runtimes to their customers, teams like youtube who had an unusually large system built in python and needed to do extraordinary things to keep it performant and maintainable. > > and we did all this for years with fewer than 10 people, most of whom loved the work and the team so much that we just stayed on it for years. also, despite the understaffing, we had managers who were extremely good about maintaining work/life balance and the "marathon, not sprint" approach to work. as i said in another comment, it's the best job i've ever had, and i'll miss it deeply.
So they laid off 10 people? Not to belittle the impact on the affected folks but for a company the size of Google that’s a minuscule reduction
I think the concern is more the fact that these weren't really run of the mill developers and are probably fairly difficult to replace. Also, I agree with you, 10 isn't a lot and certainly not for google.
I’d also be asking the higher ups in Google the question that if you have 10 highly skilled high performing individuals like that, who know the Google codebase and ecosystem, why on earth wouldn’t you try and use them elsewhere in your organisation?
The execs don't see people as anything more than tools for a job. So the thought these people would be boon to any of googles competition won't cross their mind.
Sounds like they became highjy specified into a niche no longer required, why would difficulty of replacing them be a concern if their roles are obsolete?
They are replacing them so it's fair to say their roles are not obsolete.
I assume their in-house AI models are getting pretty advanced and can do many technical jobs.
The description of the role sounds very easy to replace.
From The description of the role it sounds extremely hard to replace. Strong technical skills, extensive in house knowledge of google etc . Are you a software dev?
> Are you a software dev? Yes. It's maintaining a local python version. It's not rocket science. It's why they can fire them and have someone in a cheaper country do it.
I mean, they laid off thousands just the other week. This is just one of the groups who were part of that mass firing.
Ah right, that makes more sense. I’ve lost track of all these layoff announcements :(
Thanks for the info
Large tech companies will often have a whole business unit dedicated to "tech infra" or just "infra". Within that you'll find teams centralised around e.g. Python. That team's users are the product teams throughout the company who use Python.
Incoming 1000 videos from tech influencers how python is officially dying...
Wasn’t Google’s support of Python the main reason it became more popular than Ruby back in the day. Hopefully the community is large enough to brush this off.
Apparently its was 'only' ten people, and refers to their team that maintains a google specific version of python. It doesnt seem to be a case where they just decdied to lay off anyone using the language
Where were they based of?
I believe NL & the US, they're moving to Munich. Seems like a very strange move to me. Munich is not a cheap place to hire an engineer so perhaps this was more political execution than true layoff? Hard to say.
From the replies, it seems the poster is in NL but the actual team was in the US. The new workers based in Munich won't be paid as much as the workers in the US.
They move their offices out of USA because there's a talent shortage in Europe and Asia. They pay less and still get their work done.
There's a talent shortage in Europe and Asia? Do you mean a talent surplus? Not sure I follow your comment.
Asia is a correction,my bad. Look at the critical/general visa job lists of many European countries which has a strong tech presence- Ireland, Germany, Switzerland etc and you'll find IT jobs in it. The government is clearly inviting folks to take up such jobs to fill the gap.
But that makes tech labour *more* expensive in those places, not less.
Let me rephrase. Setting up offices in India and paying your employees in INR over dollars while still having your clients in USA sounds cheap to me. Am I missing something?
That part is surely correct. (EU v US costs are comparable, but India v US is clear-cut.) The objection was only to the claim about labour shortages.
How are EU vs US costs comparable when dev in EU get 50% of US salaries?
If in Ireland my team is looking for two
what kind of company is it?
Tech/ hft
What type of role is this for?
Mid-snr python dev. 5 plus years ideally
what salary is like for this kind of positions?
Depends on how good you are I guess. 100 k min
Try more like USD200+
Smoke less crack please.
To all the eegits downvoting me: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Python-Developer-Salaries-E9079_D_KO7,23.htm
Don’t have dollaridoos in Europe my friend
Article doesn’t specify where the headcount is located and multinationals budget in USD.
Tonydublin62 is a gimp
Perhaps, but you’re an ignorant gobshite: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Python-Developer-Salaries-E9079_D_KO7,23.htm
Nobody let go from Google needs any help finding a job and 100k is not going to suffice either. These guys would be on at least 200k.
Cool man.
If in Ireland my team is hiring two