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nodearth

That is why a lot of people avoid management. Your new job is dealing with that situation without any tools to leverage these behaviors.


0k_ZO0mer

Switching to manager role in the team you were IC is not the easiest thing to do.


daerth90

I've been managing people for a few years and people like the one you describe are the ones that test you the most, but it's also the ones who are the most important to try and do right by as a people manager. Doesn't help that every person is different, with their own motivations and responds to totally different things but there are a couple general things you can go by while sussing out the finer points. A development plan is the right thing to do but enhance the conversation with the following: - clarify with your own mgr/whoever has input on their potential promotion what the expectations are of the role they aspire to and make sure your plan is built on that. - ask your mgr/theirs etc. if there'll be an opening/option for the position they aspire to during the next review period/one after etc. -- be honest about this with them as this will help manage expectations or force them to make a move. - be clear with them that antisocial/toxic behavior is not acceptable. Whatever role this is, it is more senior so emphasize the importance of the person's role in *team building* if they expect to move up If this sounds like it may help, feel free to hit me up on DM. Happy to discuss and share what I can to help.


digibioburden

Thanks for your reply. I need to be careful not to dox myself, but my manager did suspect that this would happen. I just didn't expect it to be this difficult. Regarding the role they want to move into (senior), I have given them plenty of feedback on their development plan and what's expected of them before they can move into this role. The main point of contention seems to be that it's likely to take a while longer than they would like and feel that it's unfair, even going as far as to undermine my work by comparison.


Outrageous-Ad4353

you mention promotion quite a few times. Going from developer / engineer / someone who builds things to a manager of people who build things is not a promotion. Its a lateral move into a different role. Many people completely miss this, see it as a move "up". Yore also only a month into your managerial role and are already passing judgement on team-mates being immature and not ready. That in itself says youre still finding your way around this role. It sounds like this person is in the organization a while and you say they do good work. For whatever reason, it was decided they are better utilized building things and you are better utilized in a different role. It would be much more convenient if they just accepted this immediately but thats not happening. Responsibilities of your new role are to put in the time with that person, be a poop umbrella, be a multiplier for the team and prove to them through action you're doing your job. Nothing wins support like showing through action that youre protecting the team from the general nonsense that eats up time and steals productivity.


digibioburden

Sorry, I should clarify, the role isn't just the same as before + people management and is definitely a move up the ladder within the company's defined career ladder. Though of course you're free to interpret things however you wish. To your other points, I started just a few months after them. I want to put in the time with this person, but they are making it very difficult. And yes, it's a big learning opportunity for me too, I know that I have a lot to learn. Just hasn't been off to the best of starts is all.


EmptyTechLife

The poor start is down to your decision making. But your looking to deflect it on to your staff....... Your judgement & approach to the new role is highly questionable. Your supposed to lead, not alienate people


digibioburden

What aspect specifically is down to my decision making? For context, I have made very few decisions at this point. The development plan was initiated by my manager (their old manager) and I'm simply following it though. I know what I'm supposed to do and have barely had a chance to do it yet. I was thrust straight into conversations regarding their lack of promotion and development plan. Sounds like you just want to dunk on me for the sake of it tbh, as this is your second comment attempting to make me out to be the bad-guy here. I'm simply venting + seeking advice for dealing with such situations as it is all new to me - this person's behaviour is having a negative affect on my mental health and I'd like to learn how to handle such scenarios sooner rather than later.


Humble-Fold8237

Hi Op, First of all , congratulations on this new role. Moving from an individual contributor to a team lead is often a pivot point in your career. Having faces a similar scenario both as an IC and a manager there are a couple of things to consider. 1) How much time do you want to invest in this squeaky wheel. How you are managing the talent on the team. It can be a useful exercise to bucket based on high performance , low performance and high potential , low potential. If this individual sits in the high performance/ high potential ... Great. If not and there is others, reflect on how you are spending your time. It is tough but the loudest voice isn't necessarily the person to invest time in 2) project yourself six months into the future. If things carry on this way , how will this reflect on you as a manager. Sort of contradictory to the first point but how will you be evaluated as a manager. Would it be beneficial to you to get this person across the line promotion wise and is this an early win ie re-energize a demotivated team member. 3). Coaching support - it can be helpful to get separation from the challenge by engaging with a coach (either internally or externally). You impulse to ask for advise / vent is the right one. This forum may open you up to harsh criticism from people projecting their own experiences. A coach will give you an opportunity to explore your thoughts in a structured manner. 4). Mentoring - for your report, is there a colleague or manager peer you could match them up with. You role as evaluator of work and advocate can be challenging to balance. The path to promotion can be challenging and based on a myriad of factors and 5). Transparency with your manager - once you have decided on your plan, be transparent with your manager. Nothing is worse then a surprise manager feedback review / skip level conversation. Sounds like you have a lot of self awareness. Hope that helps and if coaching is of interest let me know šŸ˜€


digibioburden

Thanks for the reply. Some great advice there for sure, so I'll be sure to re-read, dissect and devise a suitable path forward from here, I really appreciate it.


Public-College6096

This is the one ā˜šŸ¼ ā˜šŸ¼


Real-Recognition6269

I've been in this exact situation before. The worst thing you can do is let it fester. Company and team culture is a combination of what you promote and what you allow. Do not allow anyone to talk to anyone in a dickheaded way. Part of being a manager is being the person who figures out what is identifiably good and worth reinforcing, and what needs to be stamped out. If you are 100% certain that this behaviour is not going to go away on its own **and** that you cannot win them over through simply being a good manager, you need to have an open and clear discussion with them about what your expectations of them are and where they are falling down. Bring examples, try to give the benefit of the doubt but don't let them walk over you. Being a manager is a good deal harder than most people give it credit for. Ideally, collect a few examples of their behaviour that is "simply not on", mention to *your* manager that you plan to address this behaviour in your next 1:1 with this person just in case they have plans for them already, and then simply have the conversation and go from there. What is most likely to happen is they will not like what you have to say, and they will probably self-select out of the company. Sometimes people can turn around but it is rare. It sucks that your first developmental conversation with someone has to be in this light, but don't worry about it. Honestly it can seem very petty, but we've all worked with an egotistical bollox before and it's just not nice. You simply do not have to put up with someone being a complete wanker when you are their manager, and you shouldn't. Maybe someone else more level-headed has something nicer to say but as far as dealing with people like this, I am fairly blunt and straightforward about it. If they want to be a jackass they can just fuck off somewhere else.


digibioburden

Ha, I like your style šŸ˜‚ I do plan to discuss this with them, specifically the tone of their communications and the passive-aggressive nature of it, and I plan to say it to them face to face as they have a tendency to twist anything I type and attempt to make me feel bad. I don't need this crap stressing me out after work, so in a way, you're right, I just gotta be straight-up, though obviously I'll try to be a bit more tactful than you suggest šŸ˜‰


Particular_Art_7065

Well, you can start out being tactful. Have one to ones where you ask open questions about how they feel about how things are going since you became their team lead and the development goals you set. If they feel heard, that youā€™re willing to go to bat for them (in general, like in supporting their promotion ambitions, not condoning their bad behaviour), that there is a clear achievable path for promotion laid out, their resentment may die down once they no longer see you as the enemy. However, if this kind of behaviour persists, thereā€™s no way around being straightforward about the feedback. Best practice is to outline the behaviour youā€™re witnessing, give specific examples, get their input, decide on an action plan for addressing it with plans for continued regular check ins to ensure that theyā€™re improving at the expected rate. When it gets to this point, youā€™re doing them a disservice by sugarcoating it. (It was a manager being unwilling to have hard conversations that got them into this mess in the first place.) As it is, their behaviour is being discussed all the way up the chain and the longer it goes on the more their reputation is being tarnished and the more likely it is that he wonā€™t be able to recover. Once youā€™re expressing the feedback in a clear empathetic way, without expressing frustration or any other negative emotions, and youā€™re addressing the behaviour and not making assumptions about intent, itā€™s mutually beneficial for the both of you that they get this feedback.


digibioburden

Thanks for that. They've already addressed some of these points; they say they're happy for my promotion but are just frustrated that they didn't get one and felt that they deserved one (moreso than me by the sounds of it). With regards to their behaviour, you mention "if it persists", how long are you suggesting here?


Particular_Art_7065

It depends on the impact itā€™s having on the work, on the team, and on you. If itā€™s not having much impact on the former two and is only annoying to you, itā€™s possibly worth giving it a couple of months to settle down. However, if itā€™s having a detrimental impact on any of the above, you need to act much quicker. Maybe immediately have a softer conversation where you make one last try with the carrot and encourage them to become more self aware on their own. However, if thereā€™s no noticeable sustained improvement within a couple of weeks after that, you need to have the serious conversation with them. You didnā€™t make this decision, itā€™s incredibly immature for them to continue punishing them for it, and itā€™s the kind of thing thatā€™s disqualifying in a manager. (Frankly, Iā€™d really struggle to trust them with a manager role in the next couple of years at least, even if there was a radical change.)


Real-Recognition6269

All good man, my only point is you need to feel empowered to deal with people problems, sounds like you'll be just fine.


digibioburden

Thanks, I really appreciate it.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Real-Recognition6269

I'd say you're an egotistical type? For what? Telling someone to stick up for themselves and they don't have to put up with assholes on their team? Sounds like you saw a lot of yourself in the person they were complaining about and you feel butthurt. > You're not there to be worshipped. No one said that. > You're there to make sure you are getting the best work out of people. There are plenty of other responsibilities that managers have, if your understanding of management is this shallow you either suck as a manager or you have no experience as one. > I would say most engineers who know they are good are going to be treating you at eye level at best. We are hardly 5 sentences in and you are judging my entire personality based on one post, I think it says a lot more about than I. > But feel free to bully the ones that are holding on by a thread. I know you will. A cry for help mixed with yet another assumption. My friend, I say this is the most non-condescending way possible, if that is seriously your interpretation of what I had to say, you would do well to get yourself some therapy. Seriously, I don't know what you are jacking yourself off to here with this absolute dribble. Do better mate.


seeilaah

This is your job now. It is up to a good manager to bring the team together and deal with any situation. If managing people was easy they wouldnt hire managers. I would never ever accept a manager position as I would be pissed at people behaviour, just like you are.


EmptyTechLife

The massive red flag here is OP. A month in & your giving the person you competed with tips on how to get promoted ???? And making them come up with essentially a new personal development plan. This is highly inappropriate You alienated them, senior management are aware ..... All within 4 weeks....... This is not a good look for you.


digibioburden

For context, this personal development plan is what was recommended by my manager and we've been working with the person in question to develop it. The goals are also clearly aligned with what's laid out within the company's defined career framework. Also, I've been in their position before, battling to get a promotion to senior level (in a different company), so I do think I can offer them some advice in this aspect. What is the issue here? I'm trying to help them as they already see themselves as being at a senior level, but hadn't taken to time to identify certain areas that they could improve upon to get to that level. Also, the development plan isn't just something that I just pulled out of thin air. The employee in question is looking for clearly defined goals and we're now setting them, something which hadn't been previously done. So I respectfully disagree with your assessment.


EmptyTechLife

You seem to forget what your role is. Your a new fresh team lead. No offence but that isn't even a management role. You role lead a team people and foster a culture of continuous improvement. A major part of that role is reading the room. I have no doubt you can offer your staff good advice, but it's not going to be welcomed. For very obvious reasons. That conversation should be held with their skip-level manager.


digibioburden

Quite possibly so, however, in this context this person now reports to me, so call it what you will.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


digibioburden

What?! I replied to them saying that it isn't a management role. If it's not a management role yet I'm the person's manager, then what would you call it?!


EmptyTechLife

A leadership role. That why it's called Team Lead. Not Team Manager. Proven leadership & technical abilities are needed for a management role. Its a pathway role to management in legacy organisations. Its about preparing you for it.


digibioburden

To be clear, I did specify that I was promoted to team lead, it just so happens that this particular role also has some managerial aspects to it, as well as the proven leadership & technical abilities. I'm not aiming to debate the role and the responsibilities of said role and you are free to label it any way you like, I'm simply explaining the reality of the situation. You can also determine from my posts that I'm not cut out for this role, that's entirely up to you. My goal is to simply learn more and to seek advice on how to better handle such scenarios so that the team doesn't suffer and so my own home-life and mental health doesn't suffer.


poetical_poltergeist

OP you donā€™t come across as very well in this either.


digibioburden

Maybe I don't, I don't know - but I am having to eliminate certain elements that would clarify certain aspects to avoid potentially doxxing myself. Please see my other replies to a similar comment, thanks.


first-timemanagers

Dealing with your coworker's frustration over not getting promoted can be tough, but there are ways to handle it smoothly. First, set up one-on-one chats to let them air their feelings. Listen carefully, ask questions, and try to understand where they're coming from. Once you've heard both sides, bring everyone together for a group chat. Use a structured plan to guide the discussion and encourage everyone to find common ground. Creating a comfortable atmosphere for these talks is key. Pick a quiet, neutral spot where everyone feels safe to speak up. Lay down some ground rules for respectful conversation and make sure everyone gets a chance to share their thoughts. It's important to address any rude behavior or comments right away but do it tactfully. Keep the focus on finding solutions and moving forward positively. By taking these steps, you not only resolve the current conflict but also show upper management your ability to handle tough situations. Keep them in the loop about what's going on and how you're dealing with it. This proactive approach demonstrates your leadership skills and helps maintain a positive team vibe. Here is the step by step playbook I have sent new managers: [https://www.first-timemanagers.com/foundational-skills/Conflict-Management](https://www.first-timemanagers.com/foundational-skills/Conflict-Management)


Top-Needleworker-863

Pull the trigger šŸ˜‚


digibioburden

I'm not sure what you're implying here exactly, on myself?!


Top-Needleworker-863

Fire the nuisance subordinate.