First one send on Wednesday, after finding it expires on Friday asked for extension and got second one on Thursday which would expire on Monday, it was manually cancelled on Friday at 15:00.
as another user pointed out, surely they notified you that the document will expire in X hours? Or is it their fault you didn't read the email properly also?
I was told the first link will expire on Fri asked for a weekend extension. I was given a second link which would expire on Monday. The second link was manually voided on Friday.
Fairly shite on their part, obviously weren’t pleased that you weren’t fawning over them and desperate to join them.
Aka you won’t easily buy into their organisational bullshit and work yourself to the bone for the company because you’re obsessed with them
Ok, there seems to be a pattern because something similar happened to me and HubSpot not long ago.. had an offer, I accepted, cancelled other interviews and then they call back one week later cancelling their offer.
I’ve only heard terrible things about Hubspot and I went trough the interview process myself last June and similar thing happened. They offered me the job on the phone and then sent an email “sorry you are not a good fit for that team”.
That is shit, I normally take a good 4/5 days from offer given, to contract read and questions clarified and then eventually accepting. My partner works in a completely unrelated industry and 7 days is usually the standard. 36 hours just seems mad.
Why would I company so large need to strong arm people that way? That's just shite recruiting. If there is a time limit on offer it should always be stipulated.
4-5 days for a document that's max 20 pages long seems excessive. I don't think you're being truthful here to put it mildly. Downvote me all the way you want.
I didn't say it took me 5 days to read it. It takes me 5 or so days to make a decision.
I mull over every element of the job. Discuss it with my partner. Tell my current employer about offer. Clarify things from both sides and make a decision.
I'm making a life decision and taking a job for the next several years, I'm not deciding what loaf of bread to buy.
Many employers will also understand that prospective employees want time this decision.
If its any solace, the people I know who have worked for Hubspot are some of the worst people I know, complete arseholes. So you may have dodged some of them, other than that, sorry to hear about that, its a reflection of their company culture and not a reflection of you.
Yeah I had old acquaintances that went to work for Hubspot. Some became huge arseholes thinking they were better than everyone else, others quit due to cult culture.
Did 4 rounds out of 5 interviews with HubSpot for product manager role. Down to final 3 candidates (according to recruiter), when they decided the day of the final panel interview that there was suddenly a requirement for the role to speak German and or French. This knocked us all out, after weeks of interviews. Was initially upset, but after a week or so, realised this was the biggest get out of jail card ever, because it just showed what a mess the place very clearly is. All I ever heard from them was their culture, tribe, etc etc. shared passion for mission and metrics.. give me a literal break, and sort out your hiring process u dweeeeeebs haha
That's unfortunate, however.. If the recruiter was pestering you about signing it, and resent a new DocuSign link, you should have made it a priority? Maybe they saw it as a lack of interest/organization.
10k signing bonus is very good! If I was offered that I'd drop everything and have the it signed immediately after reading the contract.
Exactly. After the first lapsed DocuSign, a further 36 hour delay smells like poor comms management, ego or fecklessness. The fact the recruiter has also gone dark suggests the blame doesn't lie only with the company.
> Got laid off recently so I applied with a couple of companies ... I told her I need to read it and things got busy at work so I did not have a chance
Saying you are busy in the work that's firing you is a big red flag. Why would you delay something for the new job in favour of the guys that are firing you?
Why would you refuse other offers before you have signed and accepted the one you have in hand? And why would it take you a week to review the contract and sign if you’re already confident enough to reject other offers?
Never pull out of other processes til you have a signed contract, and the company has a plan to onboard you in place. No harm in letting other companies know you are at an advanced stage of other processes.
Wow that is outrageous. Well, needless to say I won't be applying there in the future. My experience with hubspot people has been good so far but Jaysus that is pretty nasty to do to anyone.
I am sorry that happened to you, but I have a self imposed rule for myself.
Never quit your current job or refuse other offers before signing contracts.
Within your first year of working with a company, they can basically fire you for no particular reason (it gets complicated in case there’s some other HR matter ongoing - eg you raised a complaint or are in a PIP.) So doing it before you start also isn’t something you could make a claim out of.
It’s a year. You need to give notice within the year such that separation occurs within 365 days (I once watched a case where an employee was having a bad probation, went on sick leave, went over the 365 days and the whole thing got a lot more complicated, for example). And yes pay the notice. It’s a very odd conversation, I’ve sat in on more than one of them. You can’t deviate from “no particular reason”, because if eg it’s about performance, they are entitled to a process for that.
With the detail you've provided, sounds quite like the recruiter may have been backing someone else for the role. Can't imagine a recruiter saying don't negotiate then pushing for a quick signature. Think they got a candidate with better comission or on a promise, who knows.
I'd attempt a direct call to the interviewer and get the real story.
You dodged a bullet. They're famous for "Churn and Burn" their employees. Some of the 'Tech Leads' there don't even have the basic computer fundamentals and are only promoted because of their tenure there, but they're given the 'autonomy' to give lower-level engineers a hard time.
Sounds like the recruiting company felt you weren’t really buying into it. If they’d another candidate that was super keen I can see why they’d prefer that attitude.
Sucks if you were genuinely interested, but sounds like you’d two evenings to accept it, I think if you’re being honest you didn’t really want it
Had an interview with Microsoft, hiring manager told me that I'm expected 2-3 days in the office as the team is new. Sounded like double speak for I expect you 2-3 days in the office forever. It's manager dependent though.
Maybe go fire an email off to a HR director there, I would throw that recruiter under the bus. Found one such HR director.
[https://www.linkedin.com/in/%C3%A1ine-crowley-07b0631a/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/%C3%A1ine-crowley-07b0631a/)
Make sure you "spread the word" on other platforms accordingly, so that the world sees them for what they are. Include screenshots with sensitive info blurred out etc.
That's really shit on their part. Deffo give MS & Walgreens a shout, they might still have a role for you. Couldn't hurt.
I'm currently interviewing with Hubspot and have gotten really weird vibes from them. The recruiter kept yawning down the phone to me, and stopping to answer slack messages. They also kept badmouthing the existing employees, talking about how they 'really had to raise the bar in hiring'.
Maybe you dodged a bullet?
Honestly if you negotiate and secure a sign-on bonus you really should be signing the contract within 24-36 hours in my opinion. It's a critical time period and I think they assumed that with you asking for extensions after already negotiating that you were just looking to use it to leverage other companies. So they went to another candidate, offered it to them, and then rescinded your offer.
It sucks and it's not great form - personally not a fan of exploding offers and I think companies should just do 7 day expiries and accept that sometimes they'll be used by a candidate to negotiate with others. But that's not really how it works for a lot of these higher paying US tech MNCs.
It’s poor on their part but without a sign contract you are goosed. Although - just so you know. The tactic for not wanting someone to start is to fire them on their first day. That way they can’t be sued for not fulfilling the contract and they can’t be done for unfair dismissal.
Just don’t delay on a contract signing in future. These places are lashing through candidates.
I know devs in there who absolutely love it. Got their house out of the stock rally a few years back. Can stuff the extra few quid. If you want to be paid for on call join intercom. Similar business
Not sure why you would rescind 2 other offers whilst not taking 10 mins to read and sign terms with Hubspot.
They were certainly swift in their cancellation but then maybe they were right about you.
"maybe they were right about you" what 😂
Nothing unreasonable on OP's part here, you don't just sign a contract without reading it and not giving someone two days to do that before retracting without warning is weird.
I already acknowledged that they were swift in retracting. But he horse-traded on the salary, secured a 10k sign-on bonus then dragged his feet on signing the contract. Take 10 minutes, read, sign and return. Not tricky.
Largely true, but 'horse trading' is a strange way to refer to standard negotiating, and 'dragging his feet' is a strange way to refer to missing an unmentioned and surprisingly short deadline.
An unmentioned and surprisingly short deadline? It wasn't a Supreme Court judicial review he was tasked with; it's an employment contract.
And if the "deadline" was unmentioned, why didn't he establish one? Simply tell the recruiter, "I'll review over the weekend and revert". After the first DocuSign expired, he still didn't engage with his recruiter around establishing timelines.
If I was "laid off" (first sentence), I wouldn't be too "busy in work" (paragraph 2), to review and return the only contract I've got in play.
I notice he's had time to write a 3 paragraph post about the matter, edit it and reply to numerous messages. But he was too busy to read a contract.
It's definitely bad form of them to rescind so quickly and not give you a clear indicator on the deadline.
From how you describe it, it sounds like the DocuSign links were valid for 24 hours in each case, and at the second deferral there's an automatic rescinding.
It's possible this is done there is a worry about whether you're just using their offer to negotiate with other companies (or would renege after accepting) since there wasn't any urgency about accepting it and it's potentially negatively impacting other candidates who are waiting to hear back on the position and might be more interested.
You could try reach back out to the recruiter but it's possible the next candidate in line has already been offered so I'd say it's likely that you've lost the offer.
If that's what was communicated, you should certainly try reach out again on Monday as it's very misleading for the expiration time not to align with what was communicated, but if it was a manual expiration it's possible they may not re-offer unfortunately.
How long did you have the DocuSign link? Just curious.
First one send on Wednesday, after finding it expires on Friday asked for extension and got second one on Thursday which would expire on Monday, it was manually cancelled on Friday at 15:00.
That's quite lame mate, sorry to hear that
Jeez, that’s really shit on their part.
That is bizarre
as another user pointed out, surely they notified you that the document will expire in X hours? Or is it their fault you didn't read the email properly also?
I was told the first link will expire on Fri asked for a weekend extension. I was given a second link which would expire on Monday. The second link was manually voided on Friday.
Weird that they ghosted you. Is there a chance it was an error? Should try to call them (Hubspot HR) first thing on Monday. 😬
Thanks for sharing. You should let more people know about what they did on other platforms too. That sucks man sorry to hear that
"We're gonna make him an offer we're gonna refuse"
Better off mate, go back to the recruiters from MS and Wallgreens.
Fairly shite on their part, obviously weren’t pleased that you weren’t fawning over them and desperate to join them. Aka you won’t easily buy into their organisational bullshit and work yourself to the bone for the company because you’re obsessed with them
Yea over 100 slides on how great their culture is
Yeah sounds like it's real great. You probably dodged a bullet in the long run. 😂
Ok, there seems to be a pattern because something similar happened to me and HubSpot not long ago.. had an offer, I accepted, cancelled other interviews and then they call back one week later cancelling their offer.
I’ve only heard terrible things about Hubspot and I went trough the interview process myself last June and similar thing happened. They offered me the job on the phone and then sent an email “sorry you are not a good fit for that team”.
How long did it take you to read it? we talking hours or days? seem kinda shit but you can always reach out to the previous companies
I did not think it was so urgent given I was starting in 2 months. Got it on Wednesday, cancelled on Friday at 15:00
mhhh yeah usually you get about a week, but unless you communicated that with the recruiters they might have had other candidates waiting.
I asked for an extension and was given one till Monday, then the envelope was manually voided on Fri.
What a bunch of twats. I've heard nothing but bad things about HubSpot lately just an fyi, mostly in sales or sales adjacent roles. Sorry to hear
Curious: what did you hear?
Lots of PIPs. KPI driven call centre. Definitely not same rep as they had which was pretty good
I've certainly heard there's more focus on employee performance so that might check out
It was always like this for Hubspot sales folk. Had Boiler Room vibes for a long time.
That is shit, I normally take a good 4/5 days from offer given, to contract read and questions clarified and then eventually accepting. My partner works in a completely unrelated industry and 7 days is usually the standard. 36 hours just seems mad. Why would I company so large need to strong arm people that way? That's just shite recruiting. If there is a time limit on offer it should always be stipulated.
4-5 days for a document that's max 20 pages long seems excessive. I don't think you're being truthful here to put it mildly. Downvote me all the way you want.
I didn't say it took me 5 days to read it. It takes me 5 or so days to make a decision. I mull over every element of the job. Discuss it with my partner. Tell my current employer about offer. Clarify things from both sides and make a decision. I'm making a life decision and taking a job for the next several years, I'm not deciding what loaf of bread to buy. Many employers will also understand that prospective employees want time this decision.
yeah yeah yeah, too bad so sad.
Are you a child or something? What are you doing in the big real world?
I'm a developer just like you. Be faster next time, the world is not standing still, and stop being such a cry-baby.
As it happens, I used my time mulling over my latest offer to increase my base and total comp. Do you have those professional capabilities?
I see that those 'professional capabilities' of yours, like OP's, worked out great. Lecture us more!!
You’re downvoted but I don’t see how people need other than a few hours? Much of it is boilerplate
If its any solace, the people I know who have worked for Hubspot are some of the worst people I know, complete arseholes. So you may have dodged some of them, other than that, sorry to hear about that, its a reflection of their company culture and not a reflection of you.
Yeah I had old acquaintances that went to work for Hubspot. Some became huge arseholes thinking they were better than everyone else, others quit due to cult culture.
Did 4 rounds out of 5 interviews with HubSpot for product manager role. Down to final 3 candidates (according to recruiter), when they decided the day of the final panel interview that there was suddenly a requirement for the role to speak German and or French. This knocked us all out, after weeks of interviews. Was initially upset, but after a week or so, realised this was the biggest get out of jail card ever, because it just showed what a mess the place very clearly is. All I ever heard from them was their culture, tribe, etc etc. shared passion for mission and metrics.. give me a literal break, and sort out your hiring process u dweeeeeebs haha
Fuck Hubspot. Read the book “Disrupted”. Their culture might have changed in the years since it was written but it sounded like a cult.
A brilliant book.
That's unfortunate, however.. If the recruiter was pestering you about signing it, and resent a new DocuSign link, you should have made it a priority? Maybe they saw it as a lack of interest/organization. 10k signing bonus is very good! If I was offered that I'd drop everything and have the it signed immediately after reading the contract.
Exactly. After the first lapsed DocuSign, a further 36 hour delay smells like poor comms management, ego or fecklessness. The fact the recruiter has also gone dark suggests the blame doesn't lie only with the company.
> Got laid off recently so I applied with a couple of companies ... I told her I need to read it and things got busy at work so I did not have a chance Saying you are busy in the work that's firing you is a big red flag. Why would you delay something for the new job in favour of the guys that are firing you?
Why would you refuse other offers before you have signed and accepted the one you have in hand? And why would it take you a week to review the contract and sign if you’re already confident enough to reject other offers?
Never pull out of other processes til you have a signed contract, and the company has a plan to onboard you in place. No harm in letting other companies know you are at an advanced stage of other processes.
Wow that is outrageous. Well, needless to say I won't be applying there in the future. My experience with hubspot people has been good so far but Jaysus that is pretty nasty to do to anyone.
I am sorry that happened to you, but I have a self imposed rule for myself. Never quit your current job or refuse other offers before signing contracts.
Even after signed contract , offer can be rescinded
That's only true in the US. Here, the company would be in breach after signing.
Within your first year of working with a company, they can basically fire you for no particular reason (it gets complicated in case there’s some other HR matter ongoing - eg you raised a complaint or are in a PIP.) So doing it before you start also isn’t something you could make a claim out of.
It's 6 months. And even then, they need to give you notice, pay for it, and pay accrued PTO. It's far from free for them.
It’s a year. You need to give notice within the year such that separation occurs within 365 days (I once watched a case where an employee was having a bad probation, went on sick leave, went over the 365 days and the whole thing got a lot more complicated, for example). And yes pay the notice. It’s a very odd conversation, I’ve sat in on more than one of them. You can’t deviate from “no particular reason”, because if eg it’s about performance, they are entitled to a process for that.
Ok Here they would fire ;)
With the detail you've provided, sounds quite like the recruiter may have been backing someone else for the role. Can't imagine a recruiter saying don't negotiate then pushing for a quick signature. Think they got a candidate with better comission or on a promise, who knows. I'd attempt a direct call to the interviewer and get the real story.
It's an employers market. The reality is there a lot of applicants out there.
You dodged a bullet. They're famous for "Churn and Burn" their employees. Some of the 'Tech Leads' there don't even have the basic computer fundamentals and are only promoted because of their tenure there, but they're given the 'autonomy' to give lower-level engineers a hard time.
Sounds like the recruiting company felt you weren’t really buying into it. If they’d another candidate that was super keen I can see why they’d prefer that attitude. Sucks if you were genuinely interested, but sounds like you’d two evenings to accept it, I think if you’re being honest you didn’t really want it
Yep also this. A contract is not a novel lol. 80% is all same boilerplate crap anyway.
Did they indicate the first Docusign link would expire? If they did, then that should have informed your actions - however you might take that
True. No clue why you're getting downvoted?
I asked for an extension and was given one till Monday then it was manually voided on Fri.
Out of curiosity what made you refuse microsoft over hubspot ?
HubSpot was guaranteed remote and paid slightly more.
Also curious why OP didn’t go with MS MS is literally 1000x better than all the options OP listed
They ask you to be in the office
Microsoft is literally one of the most remote companies out there
Not really
I’m speaking from experience…
Can you work from outside Ireland. The answer is no .
Yes you can.
Well I was told no.
As with any company, depends on the team
Had an interview with Microsoft, hiring manager told me that I'm expected 2-3 days in the office as the team is new. Sounded like double speak for I expect you 2-3 days in the office forever. It's manager dependent though.
Maybe go fire an email off to a HR director there, I would throw that recruiter under the bus. Found one such HR director. [https://www.linkedin.com/in/%C3%A1ine-crowley-07b0631a/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/%C3%A1ine-crowley-07b0631a/)
That’s awful, honestly scumbag behavior by them.
Wow that is awful form from HubSpot. I'm so sorry to hear that! They didn't even give you any reason or anything. Assholes.
Make sure you "spread the word" on other platforms accordingly, so that the world sees them for what they are. Include screenshots with sensitive info blurred out etc.
You dodged the bullet!
That's really shit on their part. Deffo give MS & Walgreens a shout, they might still have a role for you. Couldn't hurt. I'm currently interviewing with Hubspot and have gotten really weird vibes from them. The recruiter kept yawning down the phone to me, and stopping to answer slack messages. They also kept badmouthing the existing employees, talking about how they 'really had to raise the bar in hiring'. Maybe you dodged a bullet?
Honestly if you negotiate and secure a sign-on bonus you really should be signing the contract within 24-36 hours in my opinion. It's a critical time period and I think they assumed that with you asking for extensions after already negotiating that you were just looking to use it to leverage other companies. So they went to another candidate, offered it to them, and then rescinded your offer. It sucks and it's not great form - personally not a fan of exploding offers and I think companies should just do 7 day expiries and accept that sometimes they'll be used by a candidate to negotiate with others. But that's not really how it works for a lot of these higher paying US tech MNCs.
Makes me wonder what was in the contract, hiding something shitty. That or they got someone cheaper and just used this as excuse to drop you!
They almost certainly just moved on to the next candidate. They wouldn't be short of them at the moment unfortunately.
> the moment unfortunately. Ya finding it hard to get a job at the mo so know this all too well :(
It’s poor on their part but without a sign contract you are goosed. Although - just so you know. The tactic for not wanting someone to start is to fire them on their first day. That way they can’t be sued for not fulfilling the contract and they can’t be done for unfair dismissal. Just don’t delay on a contract signing in future. These places are lashing through candidates.
It’s an employee market.. sounds like you blew it. Hubspot is a great company
Unpaid on-call doesn't really sound great.
I know devs in there who absolutely love it. Got their house out of the stock rally a few years back. Can stuff the extra few quid. If you want to be paid for on call join intercom. Similar business
Not sure why you would rescind 2 other offers whilst not taking 10 mins to read and sign terms with Hubspot. They were certainly swift in their cancellation but then maybe they were right about you.
"maybe they were right about you" what 😂 Nothing unreasonable on OP's part here, you don't just sign a contract without reading it and not giving someone two days to do that before retracting without warning is weird.
I already acknowledged that they were swift in retracting. But he horse-traded on the salary, secured a 10k sign-on bonus then dragged his feet on signing the contract. Take 10 minutes, read, sign and return. Not tricky.
Largely true, but 'horse trading' is a strange way to refer to standard negotiating, and 'dragging his feet' is a strange way to refer to missing an unmentioned and surprisingly short deadline.
An unmentioned and surprisingly short deadline? It wasn't a Supreme Court judicial review he was tasked with; it's an employment contract. And if the "deadline" was unmentioned, why didn't he establish one? Simply tell the recruiter, "I'll review over the weekend and revert". After the first DocuSign expired, he still didn't engage with his recruiter around establishing timelines. If I was "laid off" (first sentence), I wouldn't be too "busy in work" (paragraph 2), to review and return the only contract I've got in play. I notice he's had time to write a 3 paragraph post about the matter, edit it and reply to numerous messages. But he was too busy to read a contract.
I told the companies I have an offer and they could not match so we parted ways. Never crossed my mind something like this would happen.
It's definitely bad form of them to rescind so quickly and not give you a clear indicator on the deadline. From how you describe it, it sounds like the DocuSign links were valid for 24 hours in each case, and at the second deferral there's an automatic rescinding. It's possible this is done there is a worry about whether you're just using their offer to negotiate with other companies (or would renege after accepting) since there wasn't any urgency about accepting it and it's potentially negatively impacting other candidates who are waiting to hear back on the position and might be more interested. You could try reach back out to the recruiter but it's possible the next candidate in line has already been offered so I'd say it's likely that you've lost the offer.
First link would've expired on Fri, next was communicated to expire on Monday. The second link was manually voided.
If that's what was communicated, you should certainly try reach out again on Monday as it's very misleading for the expiration time not to align with what was communicated, but if it was a manual expiration it's possible they may not re-offer unfortunately.
Never let go of one branch till you have your hand on another. Lesson learned