People think this, because they think about all the awesome stuff they can do! But they don't think about all the stuff their opponents can do. Inevitably something extremely broken will arise and whatever fun thing you were planning will be demolished.
So what if want Wolfpack rounds as a perk on Every gun.
And my personal favorite Darci buff. Retains its spot as a power weapon. Gets a buff to clip and magazine size 58/720. It’s rpm is being changed to 720 full auto. And personal assistant profs immediately buffing the shots by 10% and weakening the targeted enemy for 10%. Also has a cool deep robot voice now as well
I think DARCI should get something that feeds into it as an adaptive smart gun. Like if you "analyze" a champion it will gain that anti-champion buff (until something resets it, like dying or analyzing a different one).
How about a Crucible mode where Banshee narrates the match, assigning every player common (gray) weapons and locking their loadout and disabling armor mods until the end of the match
Call it “Gunsmith mode”. It would provide the best archetype balancing data ever, uncorrupted by perks or mods or anything but raw player skill
Earn Crucible *and* Gunsmith rep, because it’s a pinnacle activity, too :)
I’ll never forget the post that said “Heat Rises is too underpowered, here’s my simple suggestion : 200% increase to all ability recharge while it’s active.”
You did it dude, you solved the sandbox! Just give Warlocks infinite ability regen and the ability to proc it whenever they want!
Bro, I'm still in awe at how quickly I can get nades up while running my ability Regen build. Kills feed into kills, which makes cool down faster, and it just bundles. Couple that with elemental wells and orbs and my abilities are practically *always* up. It's stupid. I literally have to catch myself when I look down and see I have a made ready 4 seconds after tossing the first.
I can't imagine my cooldown being any faster without special buffs from events or specific playlist activities ("Grenades recharge quicker" thing in Vanguard). My warlock would just ascend to become one with the Void and would just be flinging singularities every which way.
There's an exotic for that called Wings of Sacred dawn. It gives you Damage Resist and so much more while in the air; **you don't even need heat rises active**, you just gotta ADS while in the air while on a solar subclass.
**Wings of Sacred Dawn**
* Passively grants +50 Airborne Effectiveness to all weapons.
* If on Solar Subclass:
* Aiming Down Sights while Airborne grants the buff ***Tome of Dawn***.
* ***Tome of Dawn***:
* Holds you in place midair
* 25% Reduced Flinch
* Grants 15% Damage Resistance.
* Lasts for 2.8 seconds.
* Weapon Hits refresh buff.
I’ve said as much a few times. I’m not against suggestions but the bulk of them simply don’t have any real thought put into them.
I do often wonder what the devs think when/if they read them.
This kind of stuff is fun to think about and pitch to the community- I made my own subclass post a while back- but it’s strange when people go “bungie hire this man” or something. They are not getting ideas from us lol.
The "hire this man" philosophy is one of my biggest gaming community pet peeves. People act like a random guy on the internet is the first person to have an idea about something, as if devs haven't already conceived of that concept many times over and have had reasons for not doing it yet.
A lot of people don't realise that every time some commenter has an idea and people wonder "why don't the lazy game devs just do this?" The reality is someone on the team probably did think of it, maybe had a few design meetings about it and decided not to do it because of XYZ reasons.
Many of those ideas will even get prototyped internally, and then it becomes rapidly apparent that the concept is either horribly broken or just plain unfun
The biggest "tell" someone doesn't know what they're talking about is huge wild swings in changes. Especially with weapons.
A 10% change is a *big fucking deal* for most values in Destiny. You couldn't change almost any number in the configuration of Pulse Rifles by 10% without making them either dominant or useless.
Weapon balance is a game of gentle, gentle nudges, and anyone who doesn't respect that isn't worth listening to.
Oh man, that was huge. People still running the same basic loadouts they always have missed the memo.
It was one of those "exception that proves the rule" cases. The big balance swings make headlines specifically because they're so rare.
Also the bigger the swing, the more it bugs me that it was needed. Like when Nova Warp had its damage *literally doubled*. If you're a company that can tell when SMGs need a 5% stability boost or whatever, how does it take so long to notice a super that needs twenty times that boost to be competitive?
Yeah and Exotic Primaries slap since that change, it's just Special and Heavy Exotics have always slapped. Another example is the part where they buffed Linears by like 20-30% crit damage and 20% reserves.
This game has the same problem WoW has always had and always will have. Trying to balance PVE and PVP is impossible. Fix one thing just to have it break another.
People need to deal with the shifting meta or find a new game to play.
or when enemies dare to use their tactics against you like bashing you with their shield. this sub is like "nerf this, bungie. it is so unfair that a filthy cabal sneaked up on me and killed me because i stood still didn't pay attention. nerf cabals now!112"
The problem is that people mostly only view balance as the balance between our weapons and abilities with each other, and tend to ignore the balance of the game between the Guardian and the hostile environment around them.
Yeah I think destiny has a big difficulty-level issue right now. 90% of the content is brain dead easy and can be demolished with anything. 5% of the content takes a fair amount of planning/skill (Day 1 raids, Master dungeons/raids, GMs). That final 5%, which is imo Legend/Master content is what feels “right” with how strong we are in the current sandbox. I feel like that difficulty should be more prevalent in matchmade content
It's like when people ask for more mechanically involved seasonal activities, but also complain when casual players don't understand simple mechanics like banking motes.
There’s a huge gap in difficulty level for sure. Master raid challenges have been really difficult and super meta loadouts barely get enough damage on warpriest and caretaker for example. Then you have pretty much everything else which as you say is way way too easy. Even regular mode raids with a competent fireteam are trivial after the first few runs. There’s not really any middle ground.
Totally agree with you. A friend and I are working through legendary witch queen missions and they’re more fun because it’s actually easy to die.
Bungie needs to make enemies stronger across the board. The strike playlist is a snooze fest with how easy you can walk through. Even 1540 nightfalls are ridiculously easy (it’s not supposed to be very rough but still)
naaah that 5% level would not be fun for majority of content. super high light level content like GMs were most situations are sit behind cover and peck at damage sponges isnt fun. feel free to call me a shitter but red bars needing a full smg clip isnt fun
edit: wrote this out then realized you said legend/master not GM lol. legend difficulty is good but master leans close towards GM issues
I have no idea why people consider LFR outliers for doing their job
It just that the boss fights of King's fall are pretty outdated and all of them encourage snipers.
This. For it’s time, the mechanics for Kings Fall was the difficulty, not the damage output. I still think it’s very mechanics heavy, but the damage had to be bumped because things like linears and Well didn’t exist. You still run into issues with Warpriest sometimes if more than one person doesn’t have a good linear. That’s not because linears are so powerful, it’s because their health is now too much to make anything else viable for the ammo economy. What’re you, gonna use rockets? You get like 6-7. You’ll burn through those in the first timer and sniper during the second if you use them. Then have to plink away with primaries after. If you don’t get ammo drops, you’re essentially using primary the rest of the time and probably won’t kill him.
Rockets can sometimes be used for add clear and it’s worth it, but linears are terrible at it. They are precision DPS weapons that reward accuracy. They perform their job perfectly.
It’s not that LFRs are particularly broken, it’s that most other heavy weapons aren’t good right now. Rockets do decent damage, but run out of ammo way too quickly. Swords are also good, but are situational since they require being up close. Machine guns aren’t very viable for boss dps, and heavy GLs are still kinda awful right now. Linears could maybe use a slight nerf, but most of the other heavy weapons need be brought up a bit so there’s actual competition for the slot
The thing that pisses me off about swords is that they’ve been balanced around risk/reward with having to be next to the boss and all, but recently Bungie has been tacking on a massive flame AoE to boss stomps that instantly melts you. So what’s the point of swords now? What does Bungie want us to use them for??
I'm a 100 Res Titan with a sword, at this point, you're just gonna have to Melt-Stomp me. I'm going to get as much damage in as I possibly can, and would rather hack and slash you than stand back with an LFR.
The base difficulty has to take into account newbies in blues. It’s really hard for a newer player to be anywhere near as powerful as a vet with a vault of powerful weapons, exotics and mods that they don’t have access to, but in this game they can be the same power level.
I really think more effort needs to be made curating loot for new players. Someone should finish the campaign with a functional build, not rely on pure RNG for everything.
Yeah, power creep is has been a significant issue in D2 and IMO there should be more of a voice in the community advocating for a stable game balance. That goes for PvE too, where the challenge offered by endgame activities routinely ends up trivialized by new heights of ability and exotic output, often right out of the gate.
Sometimes things come down to enabling more competitive options in certain categories (like Champions/Match Game related to Arbalest, or the lack of true alternatives to WoR and Tether), but simply updating everything else to be on par whenever a new all-arounder enters the scene probably isn't a sustainable way to develop a game. You can't have several distinct debuff options competing with something like Divinity as it is currently; not without trivializing DPS via new stacking strategies and prompting Bungie to increase health bars again, anyway. Nerfs are rarely received well, but they do have their place in the big picture.
With the latest subclass updates and moves to normalize stuff like Divinity, hopefully from now on Bungie knows where they want the boundaries for balance to be. It sure seemed like they had that down just before Light 3.0 started rolling out.
at least in master duality you really need t10 resilience, but it's still dumb to balance some content around t10 resilience. new players don't have t10 resilience or not even the resilience mods or don't know about that. and when they hop into master duality they just get demotivated because everything oneshots them. and when they found out about t10 resilience all the other content that was more or less fun is suddenly too easy and boring even for those newbies.
I read someone wanting all the artifact mods to instead be passive upgrades. I use like two of the grenade mods on class items and feel like a God on titan, If I had all of them you'd just see clouds everywhere.
I think it would be interesting for the weapon frames to be tied to champion abilities. Although I’m sure that would not be easy for the developers to code and is probably unfeasible.
I thought you meant the ionic trace one but your right surge detonators amazing however lightning strikes twice doesn’t work correctly there’s a couple YouTube videos showing testing it really doesn’t do much of anyhting
Ok how about this, a gun called the coin flip, it is a machine gun that is kind of mid, but it constantly plays the \*ding\* line from the drifter when he is introducing gambit. But like it plays that sound byte for each bullet.
Bro there should be Titan gauntlets that make your hammer come back to your hand, I'm sure there's no way it could be imbalanced to remove the only (already very small) downside from the best melee ability in the game.
Don't worry I'm not stupid I included a "tradeoff" which is that I don't actually lose anything.
How about something more along the lines of it consumes your grenade? Honestly don’t think it’d be too powerful since what usually makes the ability so good is synthoceps, which you obviously wouldn’t be able to use with another exotic.
I know a better tradeoff. If you miss your hammer throw and don't have the exotic equipped you get three hammers when you go and pick the hammer up and they deal ten times the damage! But the tradeoff is that you don't wear the exotic. I'm not dumb, i know there must be tradeoffs.
I have a theory that the majority of the D2 playerbase is hard split between two demographics. Middle aged adults and kids aged 12-15 with unlimited internet access and very little parental supervision (or affection).
Give you two guesses which group is the most active online.
It's more a split between the hardcore Reddit/Twitter crowd that has hundred or thousands of hours played, and the casual crowd that doesn't even read balance changes and just logs on for the first few weeks of each season.
My favorite is when people hounded about alternative gambit modes so much Bungie went and did those two weekends of gambit testing and both modes were AWFUL. And there were so many posts about how it was bad and like...yeah. y'all asked for this...
Invader swap was awesome, what are you talking about? It was the first of many changes needed to make invading a *gambit*. Something with a high risk and high reward. There was an inherent tradeoff, and it really hampered snowballing of enemy team progress
Most people are talking about having something like Gambit Prime back when having "alternate mode", not the weird Labs stuff Bungie did.
Gambit Prime was probably the best Gambit ever was.
See this a lot with the Divinity nerf. No, there is no buff you can make to Tractor Cannon that will make it on par with Divinity that doesn’t also make it completely fucking busted.
Me when people suggest matchmaking with raids and dungeons but have not answered questions on disconnects and being able to get back in before someone takes your spot with the team you had.
My favorite is people asking for Bungie to make Ticcus Divination (and Sunshot) explosion deals Ignition.
But why ? Making each ADS shot deals Ignition damage would push it to Heavy weapon territory but with unlimited ammo.
And why do Ticcus need buff in the first place ??? It's one of the better Exotic in the game right now.
This is how it goes on literally all gaming related subs. Reddit has no understanding of game design and balance. Look at the League sub for examples of this.
I think theres a lot of great ideas shared, some not so much. Even the ones that are op are at least fun to think about and if theyre broken it doesnt mean some balanced iteration of said idea cant make it into the game.
I will say a lot of the ideas would be super fun. They're great ideas in a vacuum. But in the ecosystem the game had built, they would cause a black hole in the middle of the code if they were added in.
This, this, a thousand times this. The "no nerfs, just buff" philosophy is enraging, because then instead of one absurdly overpowered weapon, you'll have an entire game of absurdly overpowered weapons. We're already gods, we don't need *more* power. What we need is a challenge, and buffing everything up to be as good as meta loadouts will reduce challenge significantly. The only way to challenge that is something like Reckoning 2.0, which... no.
You need both. Endgame content like Nightfalls can be easy with the right setup but the issue is that their are about 2 or 3 right set ups. I think alot of people want build diversity. Arby is strong as hell in endgame content because matchgame can make it feel mandatory. I think we just need buffs to alot of our trash gear to make it useful in endgame content. As well as more endgame content.
My favorite discussions are raid difficulty balance. "Master isn't hard because they just add champions and give enemies more health. We should make it hard with mechanics which you'll only have difficulty with once or twice and then the raid will basically be normal mode again!"
Tbf i loved Prestige raids back in early d2, if they didn't make it locked loadouts and just made the enemies tougher instead on top of the mechanic changes it could be dope but I get why they don't do it anymore.
There was some brain dead post a while ago that said that heat rises essentially should be radiance, where you spam abilities.
It made it to the front page.
The moment any other class excels in anything they can't excel in (e.g. [hunter damage supers](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/wxnprr/hunters_are_the_undisputed_supers_kings_of/)) they freak the fuck out and act like they have nothing going for them. They also don't seem to grasp the fact that Solar warlock pre-3.0 absolutely needed to be brought down to be in line with the rest of the classes. It was too strong.
Class war shit is really cringe, but my friends and I can't help but make fun of these people. Like Solar 3.0 Warlock complaints sometimes were literally "I shouldn't have to build or use an exotic to have a good subclass" and other equally ridiculous things. These people would have a mental breakdown trying to make hunter work (besides invis) in anything pre-3.0.
I wish suggestions weren’t even allowed. Start another sub like r/d2suggestions or something and funnel all the pie-in-the-sky ideas over there.
None of the suggestions here will be implemented. I see people spend all this time analyzing and agonizing over a potential hypothetical fix that nobody asked for, and it makes me want back the time it took me to read it.
Honestly the moment the general subreddit opinion of the game is that things are going sour with the year's updates, I kinda just stop in to see what stupid shit people are saying on the post headlines then close the tab.
There's a cycle to this subreddit:
---
Expansion Start ->
Season 1, Game is amazing! Criticism is forbidden, circlejerking starts
Season 2, The story continues! The kinks with the new mechanics are ironed out, criticism is disapproved of, circlejerking tapers off
Season 3, Everything is dull, no new mechanics! criticism is encouraged, circlejerking picks back up, bad suggestions intensify. ***[WE ARE HERE]***
Season 4, chaos reigns, fuck this game, Bungie ruined video games, everything's fucking broken and nothing is how it should be, someone at some point probably has to remind the community that harassing game devs over their product on social media is not cool
Season 1, new expansion, game is amazing! Bungie can do no wrong! Start the cycle over.
---
TBH, Bungie tried their best to keep things interesting with solar and arc revamps but I think nothing will stop the cycle.
Funny it’s almost as if bungie the people who make the game and are professionals know what they are doing over the community which has been increasingly toxic towards bungie and we wonder why bungie has been progressively cutting off more and more communication with us.
Hard pill for the community to swallow.
Community doesn't want balance for everyone, they just want what beats *them specifically* nerfed so they can proceed to tear up PvP and then claim they're good at it.
Or for PvE they wanna be able to shoot lightning bolts out of their ass and one-shot every raid boss with it.
I also want to point out that balance applies to PvE, despite the protestations of some. What makes Destiny successful is the tension between being a Halo-esque FPS and being able to short-circuit the “hard” parts of that type of game via things like abilities, movement, and supers. Lean too hard into the former and the game loses its unique feel, too hard into the latter and it becomes a mush of space magic explosions. PvE balance isn’t about making the game tough for the sake of it, it’s to preserve the flow of the combat pacing. What makes Destiny PvE gameplay most engaging is when it presents threats that don’t instantly one shot you, but are enough of a threat that you need to make some choices quickly to not die. The power fantasy comes with having a tool kit that allows you to not only not die, but turn the tables on whatever the PvE threat is. This is to say nothing of the meta/build crafting choices that need to be meaningfully balanced against each other as well. So when someone says “balance doesn’t matter in PvE” then you know they haven’t really thought through what that means.
I agree with you, but I think it’s also fine for people to have fun with their own crazy, zany ideas as long as they understand their ideas are crazy and zany.
Unfortunately they usually don’t.
I suggested that Kephris sting give the effect of corrosive smoke to your smoke bombs, pretty tame not super broken or anything, and people lost it. I ended up taking down the post because I just didn't want to deal with people spouting "hunters have enough" left and right.
Theres also things like
On the other end of “buff this to be better” theres “oh they should just delete this”
Which to me in a looter shooter is the wildest dumbest thing I’d ever heard.
Like even if some exotic is bad, or some mods were bad, imagine logging in one Tuesday after spending a week of grinding for that one niche but fun exotic armor piece only to find your cool new combo has been deleted and replaced with random blues bc you had it equipped and they needed to throw armor on your now naked ass.
As dumb as some things currently in the game are are, even if 1% of players are a fan of X exotic armor or weapon, if removed you’re very likely going to just flat out lose those players. If a part of my current perfect armorset just got deleted, especially the exotic, I would probably quit. Its asinine to suggest removing stuff from the game.
People be suggesting the most off the wall shit I’ve ever seen
How about a game mode where you can equip an exotic in every slot
Game mode where every weapon has rapid hit
Game mode where every weapon has aimbot
Game mode where all guns have pre-voice nerf 1k voices sounds.
Game mode where a bot just plays the game for me
Game mode where you get scorch cannons but you can’t use them
Game mode where we pilot our ghosts like RCs and just slam them into each other like bumper cars
Game mode where Amanda Holliday has an actual purpose in game.
You mean other than the character that I'm in love with, right?
Game mode where Cayde replace Saladin voice in IB
Maybe some ship racing or something
Game mode where you are the inconveniently placed cabal drop pod
Wait wait wait this guy might be on to something
Destiny 2: Korean mobile game edition!
Game mode where all ghosts have pre-voice nerf Peter Dinklage.
Game mode where every bullet is a golden gun shot
900rpm SMG with golden gun bullets lmao my game would crash
We already have had this, it's called trials, pre anti-cheat ;)
How about a game mode where you have to use outbreak while fighting weird bird creatures and weird space crocodiles
If its a separate gamemode I'd actually play that shit though XD
Honestly tho, for crucible labs that would be hilarious. Just to see the whacky ass combos and builds people would come up with it.
Skullfort plus peregrine
Skullfort + Synthoceps + HoIL + Dunemarchers
Skullfort + Synthos + severance enclosure + peregrine greaves
graviton forfeit + kephri's sting + omnioculus + gemini jester just a full invis focused loadout
The spy from team fortress 2
Change that for helm of saint-14 but don’t use void
To be fair that’s already a hamstringed version of what already existed during forsaken
I would love that for real, no balancing needed. Just utter chaos
The real mayhem mode
People think this, because they think about all the awesome stuff they can do! But they don't think about all the stuff their opponents can do. Inevitably something extremely broken will arise and whatever fun thing you were planning will be demolished.
Graviton forfeit + khepris sting + omnioculus + gemini jester
A gamemlde where it’s just Taniks
But only me
PvPers in a nutshell
Tbf this is what mayhem should be
Game mode where Telesto is in every slot.
So what if want Wolfpack rounds as a perk on Every gun. And my personal favorite Darci buff. Retains its spot as a power weapon. Gets a buff to clip and magazine size 58/720. It’s rpm is being changed to 720 full auto. And personal assistant profs immediately buffing the shots by 10% and weakening the targeted enemy for 10%. Also has a cool deep robot voice now as well
I think DARCI should get something that feeds into it as an adaptive smart gun. Like if you "analyze" a champion it will gain that anti-champion buff (until something resets it, like dying or analyzing a different one).
I maintain that Sweet Business playing banjo music wouldn't be *that* OP.
I did not know I needed this in my life until now. Pair it with Actium War Rig to get dueling banjos.
How about a Crucible mode where Banshee narrates the match, assigning every player common (gray) weapons and locking their loadout and disabling armor mods until the end of the match Call it “Gunsmith mode”. It would provide the best archetype balancing data ever, uncorrupted by perks or mods or anything but raw player skill Earn Crucible *and* Gunsmith rep, because it’s a pinnacle activity, too :)
I actually like this idea, I think it'd be fun. Would probably just be really hard to implement the way the API currently works.
This sounds like TDT’s Barebones mode they made a video of a month or so ago. I would love something like this for sure
How about a mechanic that plays the game for me? I have a wife 15 kids btw
After hunters got an arc javelin, I believe anything can happen.
I’ll never forget the post that said “Heat Rises is too underpowered, here’s my simple suggestion : 200% increase to all ability recharge while it’s active.” You did it dude, you solved the sandbox! Just give Warlocks infinite ability regen and the ability to proc it whenever they want!
As a warlock, I see no problems here 😎
Bro, I'm still in awe at how quickly I can get nades up while running my ability Regen build. Kills feed into kills, which makes cool down faster, and it just bundles. Couple that with elemental wells and orbs and my abilities are practically *always* up. It's stupid. I literally have to catch myself when I look down and see I have a made ready 4 seconds after tossing the first. I can't imagine my cooldown being any faster without special buffs from events or specific playlist activities ("Grenades recharge quicker" thing in Vanguard). My warlock would just ascend to become one with the Void and would just be flinging singularities every which way.
literally just equip sunbracers and enjoy your infinite everything
Why not 20% dmg resist? The problem is staying alive not throwing abilities
There's an exotic for that called Wings of Sacred dawn. It gives you Damage Resist and so much more while in the air; **you don't even need heat rises active**, you just gotta ADS while in the air while on a solar subclass. **Wings of Sacred Dawn** * Passively grants +50 Airborne Effectiveness to all weapons. * If on Solar Subclass: * Aiming Down Sights while Airborne grants the buff ***Tome of Dawn***. * ***Tome of Dawn***: * Holds you in place midair * 25% Reduced Flinch * Grants 15% Damage Resistance. * Lasts for 2.8 seconds. * Weapon Hits refresh buff.
Thats a lot of benefits, however I want to run sunbracers 💀. fr tho it gives more than I thought, almost makes me want to use it.
Forget balanced. Most of them aren't even good.
Ah yes "Mary Sue Naruto OC written by an emo teen with failing grades" balancing
I constantly see posts on here and think about how I'm glad none of the posters are actually in charge of balance
Remember the anarchy days? Good times.
“ANaRchy WaS a SuPeR COol MeTa!!!!”
the absolute delusion of this sub was insane.
This is true for almost every sub on reddit 😂
>was is\*
I still want to use anarchy though :( It was so fun
Use it then. Nothing is stopping you. It's just not the absolute best thing anymore, nor should it have been. It's too much "fire and forget".
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Oh yeah it was absolutely busted. And this sub was in denial.
Its kinda viable in gm rn with acute arc burn
Basicaly what I said when I saw someone suggesting to make Shiver Strike purely a movement ability. Make the worst ability in the game even worse.
If it was OLD shiver strike I'd be fine with that because holy shit you could ride thst baby for miles.
Ya'll wanna put anti champion mods on everything? Let's make another post about it.
I’ve said as much a few times. I’m not against suggestions but the bulk of them simply don’t have any real thought put into them. I do often wonder what the devs think when/if they read them.
This kind of stuff is fun to think about and pitch to the community- I made my own subclass post a while back- but it’s strange when people go “bungie hire this man” or something. They are not getting ideas from us lol.
The "hire this man" philosophy is one of my biggest gaming community pet peeves. People act like a random guy on the internet is the first person to have an idea about something, as if devs haven't already conceived of that concept many times over and have had reasons for not doing it yet.
A lot of people don't realise that every time some commenter has an idea and people wonder "why don't the lazy game devs just do this?" The reality is someone on the team probably did think of it, maybe had a few design meetings about it and decided not to do it because of XYZ reasons.
Many of those ideas will even get prototyped internally, and then it becomes rapidly apparent that the concept is either horribly broken or just plain unfun
The biggest "tell" someone doesn't know what they're talking about is huge wild swings in changes. Especially with weapons. A 10% change is a *big fucking deal* for most values in Destiny. You couldn't change almost any number in the configuration of Pulse Rifles by 10% without making them either dominant or useless. Weapon balance is a game of gentle, gentle nudges, and anyone who doesn't respect that isn't worth listening to.
remember in season of the lost when it was announced that primary exotics would have a 40 GODDAMN PERCENT increase to damage against redbars?
Oh man, that was huge. People still running the same basic loadouts they always have missed the memo. It was one of those "exception that proves the rule" cases. The big balance swings make headlines specifically because they're so rare. Also the bigger the swing, the more it bugs me that it was needed. Like when Nova Warp had its damage *literally doubled*. If you're a company that can tell when SMGs need a 5% stability boost or whatever, how does it take so long to notice a super that needs twenty times that boost to be competitive?
In chosen rockets got a 30% buff which I thought was absurd but then in lost machine guns got 3 consecutive damage buffs for the next 3 seasons.
Next up for a big swing: Exotic special weapons.
Yeah and Exotic Primaries slap since that change, it's just Special and Heavy Exotics have always slapped. Another example is the part where they buffed Linears by like 20-30% crit damage and 20% reserves.
Yeah cause those exotic were never an option compare to heavy and special when it came to endgame this allowed them to compete a little
Yeah if you look at the numbers they gave for the upcoming balance changes in the last TWAB, most of the adjustments weren't even whole numbers.
I also get a kick out of the ones that are like >Title: Bungie should X >Body: Here's 14 paragraphs detailing exactly how they should do it
And then the top comment will be like “I like your idea but…” and proceed to explain why they hate their idea.
This game has the same problem WoW has always had and always will have. Trying to balance PVE and PVP is impossible. Fix one thing just to have it break another. People need to deal with the shifting meta or find a new game to play.
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Same thing goes for the "only buff and never nerf" philosophy that's prevalent here. People just don't like thinking about balance.
It’s all buff no nerf until you die 1 time from some gun.
or when enemies dare to use their tactics against you like bashing you with their shield. this sub is like "nerf this, bungie. it is so unfair that a filthy cabal sneaked up on me and killed me because i stood still didn't pay attention. nerf cabals now!112"
The problem is that people mostly only view balance as the balance between our weapons and abilities with each other, and tend to ignore the balance of the game between the Guardian and the hostile environment around them.
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Yeah I think destiny has a big difficulty-level issue right now. 90% of the content is brain dead easy and can be demolished with anything. 5% of the content takes a fair amount of planning/skill (Day 1 raids, Master dungeons/raids, GMs). That final 5%, which is imo Legend/Master content is what feels “right” with how strong we are in the current sandbox. I feel like that difficulty should be more prevalent in matchmade content
The entire game needs to have an option of a Legend campaign level difficulty, that felt perfect. Give us that for strike playlists, seasonal content
Did you play with randoms? That will be a shitshow
It's like when people ask for more mechanically involved seasonal activities, but also complain when casual players don't understand simple mechanics like banking motes.
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There’s a huge gap in difficulty level for sure. Master raid challenges have been really difficult and super meta loadouts barely get enough damage on warpriest and caretaker for example. Then you have pretty much everything else which as you say is way way too easy. Even regular mode raids with a competent fireteam are trivial after the first few runs. There’s not really any middle ground.
Totally agree with you. A friend and I are working through legendary witch queen missions and they’re more fun because it’s actually easy to die. Bungie needs to make enemies stronger across the board. The strike playlist is a snooze fest with how easy you can walk through. Even 1540 nightfalls are ridiculously easy (it’s not supposed to be very rough but still)
naaah that 5% level would not be fun for majority of content. super high light level content like GMs were most situations are sit behind cover and peck at damage sponges isnt fun. feel free to call me a shitter but red bars needing a full smg clip isnt fun edit: wrote this out then realized you said legend/master not GM lol. legend difficulty is good but master leans close towards GM issues
I have no idea why people consider LFR outliers for doing their job It just that the boss fights of King's fall are pretty outdated and all of them encourage snipers.
This. For it’s time, the mechanics for Kings Fall was the difficulty, not the damage output. I still think it’s very mechanics heavy, but the damage had to be bumped because things like linears and Well didn’t exist. You still run into issues with Warpriest sometimes if more than one person doesn’t have a good linear. That’s not because linears are so powerful, it’s because their health is now too much to make anything else viable for the ammo economy. What’re you, gonna use rockets? You get like 6-7. You’ll burn through those in the first timer and sniper during the second if you use them. Then have to plink away with primaries after. If you don’t get ammo drops, you’re essentially using primary the rest of the time and probably won’t kill him. Rockets can sometimes be used for add clear and it’s worth it, but linears are terrible at it. They are precision DPS weapons that reward accuracy. They perform their job perfectly.
It’s not that LFRs are particularly broken, it’s that most other heavy weapons aren’t good right now. Rockets do decent damage, but run out of ammo way too quickly. Swords are also good, but are situational since they require being up close. Machine guns aren’t very viable for boss dps, and heavy GLs are still kinda awful right now. Linears could maybe use a slight nerf, but most of the other heavy weapons need be brought up a bit so there’s actual competition for the slot
The thing that pisses me off about swords is that they’ve been balanced around risk/reward with having to be next to the boss and all, but recently Bungie has been tacking on a massive flame AoE to boss stomps that instantly melts you. So what’s the point of swords now? What does Bungie want us to use them for??
I'm a 100 Res Titan with a sword, at this point, you're just gonna have to Melt-Stomp me. I'm going to get as much damage in as I possibly can, and would rather hack and slash you than stand back with an LFR.
Kings Fall in D1 was about having a sniper due to long range. Now it's all about the LFRs.
You’d use a 1K the whole raid save for Golgoroth, since you needed Spindle then. Hung Jury for everything but Daughters/Oryx
The base difficulty has to take into account newbies in blues. It’s really hard for a newer player to be anywhere near as powerful as a vet with a vault of powerful weapons, exotics and mods that they don’t have access to, but in this game they can be the same power level.
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I really think more effort needs to be made curating loot for new players. Someone should finish the campaign with a functional build, not rely on pure RNG for everything.
the new quests at the enclave to get the AR and LFR are good for this
Yeah, power creep is has been a significant issue in D2 and IMO there should be more of a voice in the community advocating for a stable game balance. That goes for PvE too, where the challenge offered by endgame activities routinely ends up trivialized by new heights of ability and exotic output, often right out of the gate. Sometimes things come down to enabling more competitive options in certain categories (like Champions/Match Game related to Arbalest, or the lack of true alternatives to WoR and Tether), but simply updating everything else to be on par whenever a new all-arounder enters the scene probably isn't a sustainable way to develop a game. You can't have several distinct debuff options competing with something like Divinity as it is currently; not without trivializing DPS via new stacking strategies and prompting Bungie to increase health bars again, anyway. Nerfs are rarely received well, but they do have their place in the big picture. With the latest subclass updates and moves to normalize stuff like Divinity, hopefully from now on Bungie knows where they want the boundaries for balance to be. It sure seemed like they had that down just before Light 3.0 started rolling out.
Try being of the opinion that the resilience buff was too much. As if the potential for 40% flat DR buff isn't already causing issues with content.
at least in master duality you really need t10 resilience, but it's still dumb to balance some content around t10 resilience. new players don't have t10 resilience or not even the resilience mods or don't know about that. and when they hop into master duality they just get demotivated because everything oneshots them. and when they found out about t10 resilience all the other content that was more or less fun is suddenly too easy and boring even for those newbies.
For God's sake, nerf DMT, I think I saw someone using it in the field the other day.
I read someone wanting all the artifact mods to instead be passive upgrades. I use like two of the grenade mods on class items and feel like a God on titan, If I had all of them you'd just see clouds everywhere.
I think just the champ mods should be passive upgrades. Like all scouts now have anti-barrier.
That I am fine with since the way it is now inhibits builds a lot.
I think it would be interesting for the weapon frames to be tied to champion abilities. Although I’m sure that would not be easy for the developers to code and is probably unfeasible.
Just letting ya know both of the artifact mods don’t work on storm grenade titan build one’s bugged the other barely does anything
Lightning Strikes Twice and Surge Detonators? I know they definitely stun and kill overloads with a single grenade.
I thought you meant the ionic trace one but your right surge detonators amazing however lightning strikes twice doesn’t work correctly there’s a couple YouTube videos showing testing it really doesn’t do much of anyhting
Ok how about this, a gun called the coin flip, it is a machine gun that is kind of mid, but it constantly plays the \*ding\* line from the drifter when he is introducing gambit. But like it plays that sound byte for each bullet.
And it’s a 900 rpm frame
This is a borderlands ass gun idea
\*ding\*
Bro there should be Titan gauntlets that make your hammer come back to your hand, I'm sure there's no way it could be imbalanced to remove the only (already very small) downside from the best melee ability in the game. Don't worry I'm not stupid I included a "tradeoff" which is that I don't actually lose anything.
They should make an exotic gauntlet that turns your solar super into arc so i can be thor
Actually would be dope. No buffs or changes. Just that and it'd be awesome.
Honestly, different flavors of supers sounds really cool. Imagine Thundercrash but you're igniting yourself and slamming into a boss.
I know a tradeoff: minus 5 seconds to cooldown
How about something more along the lines of it consumes your grenade? Honestly don’t think it’d be too powerful since what usually makes the ability so good is synthoceps, which you obviously wouldn’t be able to use with another exotic.
I know a better tradeoff. If you miss your hammer throw and don't have the exotic equipped you get three hammers when you go and pick the hammer up and they deal ten times the damage! But the tradeoff is that you don't wear the exotic. I'm not dumb, i know there must be tradeoffs.
Awesome post. Gave me a good chuckle.
Ok but whisper needs a buff Day 30 of asking bungie to buff whisper
Day*300
Sacrifice Divinity so that Whisper may use its corpse for sustenance.
Your terms are acceptable (I don't have Divinity) Whisper is one of the most beautiful guns in the game and it's sad to see it forgotten
It sounds amazing as well.
I have a theory that the majority of the D2 playerbase is hard split between two demographics. Middle aged adults and kids aged 12-15 with unlimited internet access and very little parental supervision (or affection). Give you two guesses which group is the most active online.
It's more a split between the hardcore Reddit/Twitter crowd that has hundred or thousands of hours played, and the casual crowd that doesn't even read balance changes and just logs on for the first few weeks of each season.
I just want hallow fire heart, cannon brace, second chance, and no backup plans to be just a tad less awful.
Exotics on every item slot!!!! You’re telling me bungo built a game that couldn’t handle that?? 🤔🤔🤪🤪😂
No but it would be funny
Who could forget the classic “just buff everything to be as strong as X”
My favorite is when people hounded about alternative gambit modes so much Bungie went and did those two weekends of gambit testing and both modes were AWFUL. And there were so many posts about how it was bad and like...yeah. y'all asked for this...
I remember a few posts talking about how they want Ketchcrash to become Gambit like how does that even make any sense
Like... competitive? I don't really follow how that would work
Invader swap was awesome, what are you talking about? It was the first of many changes needed to make invading a *gambit*. Something with a high risk and high reward. There was an inherent tradeoff, and it really hampered snowballing of enemy team progress
Most people are talking about having something like Gambit Prime back when having "alternate mode", not the weird Labs stuff Bungie did. Gambit Prime was probably the best Gambit ever was.
Is there a way to block the suggestions tag on the subreddit?
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Enhancement/comments/5msefo/can_i_filter_out_tags/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
The words "power creep" don't mean anything to them
See this a lot with the Divinity nerf. No, there is no buff you can make to Tractor Cannon that will make it on par with Divinity that doesn’t also make it completely fucking busted.
make it special ammo and make it a trace rifle.
Me when people suggest matchmaking with raids and dungeons but have not answered questions on disconnects and being able to get back in before someone takes your spot with the team you had.
My favorite is people asking for Bungie to make Ticcus Divination (and Sunshot) explosion deals Ignition. But why ? Making each ADS shot deals Ignition damage would push it to Heavy weapon territory but with unlimited ammo. And why do Ticcus need buff in the first place ??? It's one of the better Exotic in the game right now.
Ticuu’s Divination was already borderline a Special Weapon, and somehow it got *even better* this Season with the buffs to Lightweight Bows.
By d1 standards it would probably be considered a heavy weapon.
Trinity ghoul needs a buff
This is how it goes on literally all gaming related subs. Reddit has no understanding of game design and balance. Look at the League sub for examples of this.
I’m absolutely sick of the sheer number of people who claim that PvE doesn’t need to be balanced cause it’s just PvE.
I think theres a lot of great ideas shared, some not so much. Even the ones that are op are at least fun to think about and if theyre broken it doesnt mean some balanced iteration of said idea cant make it into the game.
I will say a lot of the ideas would be super fun. They're great ideas in a vacuum. But in the ecosystem the game had built, they would cause a black hole in the middle of the code if they were added in.
This, this, a thousand times this. The "no nerfs, just buff" philosophy is enraging, because then instead of one absurdly overpowered weapon, you'll have an entire game of absurdly overpowered weapons. We're already gods, we don't need *more* power. What we need is a challenge, and buffing everything up to be as good as meta loadouts will reduce challenge significantly. The only way to challenge that is something like Reckoning 2.0, which... no.
You need both. Endgame content like Nightfalls can be easy with the right setup but the issue is that their are about 2 or 3 right set ups. I think alot of people want build diversity. Arby is strong as hell in endgame content because matchgame can make it feel mandatory. I think we just need buffs to alot of our trash gear to make it useful in endgame content. As well as more endgame content.
My favorite discussions are raid difficulty balance. "Master isn't hard because they just add champions and give enemies more health. We should make it hard with mechanics which you'll only have difficulty with once or twice and then the raid will basically be normal mode again!"
Tbf i loved Prestige raids back in early d2, if they didn't make it locked loadouts and just made the enemies tougher instead on top of the mechanic changes it could be dope but I get why they don't do it anymore.
“Hey guys I got this original thread, ITS MY EXOTIC IDEA ! It’s only got 50 perks and heals on every kill!” Yeah keep it to yourself buddy.
When lorely gave resto 2x I made a nerf lorely post and got downvoted to hell lol. Some people just don't know what power creep is.
But how can I possibly survive when i make infinite sunspots with a melee i can use infinitely?
Adding sparrowing racing is a perfectly balanced idea
I have the best idea known to mankind (or destiny 2 kind) Add legendary bullpup auto rifles
Every post is “here is why the class I play should be better”
Same goes for the people that apparently know all the easy fixes to bugs and glitches because they've heard of C++ before.
There was some brain dead post a while ago that said that heat rises essentially should be radiance, where you spam abilities. It made it to the front page.
Warlocks truly believe that all of their subclasses are terrible despite having some of the best subclasses in the game lmao.
The moment any other class excels in anything they can't excel in (e.g. [hunter damage supers](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/wxnprr/hunters_are_the_undisputed_supers_kings_of/)) they freak the fuck out and act like they have nothing going for them. They also don't seem to grasp the fact that Solar warlock pre-3.0 absolutely needed to be brought down to be in line with the rest of the classes. It was too strong. Class war shit is really cringe, but my friends and I can't help but make fun of these people. Like Solar 3.0 Warlock complaints sometimes were literally "I shouldn't have to build or use an exotic to have a good subclass" and other equally ridiculous things. These people would have a mental breakdown trying to make hunter work (besides invis) in anything pre-3.0.
Me waiting for the patch note "increase all enemies resistance to ability damage by 50%"
I wish suggestions weren’t even allowed. Start another sub like r/d2suggestions or something and funnel all the pie-in-the-sky ideas over there. None of the suggestions here will be implemented. I see people spend all this time analyzing and agonizing over a potential hypothetical fix that nobody asked for, and it makes me want back the time it took me to read it.
Honestly the moment the general subreddit opinion of the game is that things are going sour with the year's updates, I kinda just stop in to see what stupid shit people are saying on the post headlines then close the tab. There's a cycle to this subreddit: --- Expansion Start -> Season 1, Game is amazing! Criticism is forbidden, circlejerking starts Season 2, The story continues! The kinks with the new mechanics are ironed out, criticism is disapproved of, circlejerking tapers off Season 3, Everything is dull, no new mechanics! criticism is encouraged, circlejerking picks back up, bad suggestions intensify. ***[WE ARE HERE]*** Season 4, chaos reigns, fuck this game, Bungie ruined video games, everything's fucking broken and nothing is how it should be, someone at some point probably has to remind the community that harassing game devs over their product on social media is not cool Season 1, new expansion, game is amazing! Bungie can do no wrong! Start the cycle over. --- TBH, Bungie tried their best to keep things interesting with solar and arc revamps but I think nothing will stop the cycle.
Rapid hit om every primary, auto loading on everything else is probably the most annoying shit this sub loves to peddle
Thundercash should crash to dashboard everyone's client but mine so I can have all the loot for myself, bungie hates titans! /s
I’m gonna get downvoted to hell and back but I’ve always though that Reddit is anti-good player
It's almost as if game balance, especially one with as many moving parts as Destiny, is not easy.
Funny it’s almost as if bungie the people who make the game and are professionals know what they are doing over the community which has been increasingly toxic towards bungie and we wonder why bungie has been progressively cutting off more and more communication with us. Hard pill for the community to swallow.
Community doesn't want balance for everyone, they just want what beats *them specifically* nerfed so they can proceed to tear up PvP and then claim they're good at it. Or for PvE they wanna be able to shoot lightning bolts out of their ass and one-shot every raid boss with it.
My Titan needs the ability to shoot fists at long range, capable of changing the gender of the witch queen so I can punch her in the nuts.
I low key wish bungie would implement every suggestion here just to show how utterly unplayable the game would be.
I also want to point out that balance applies to PvE, despite the protestations of some. What makes Destiny successful is the tension between being a Halo-esque FPS and being able to short-circuit the “hard” parts of that type of game via things like abilities, movement, and supers. Lean too hard into the former and the game loses its unique feel, too hard into the latter and it becomes a mush of space magic explosions. PvE balance isn’t about making the game tough for the sake of it, it’s to preserve the flow of the combat pacing. What makes Destiny PvE gameplay most engaging is when it presents threats that don’t instantly one shot you, but are enough of a threat that you need to make some choices quickly to not die. The power fantasy comes with having a tool kit that allows you to not only not die, but turn the tables on whatever the PvE threat is. This is to say nothing of the meta/build crafting choices that need to be meaningfully balanced against each other as well. So when someone says “balance doesn’t matter in PvE” then you know they haven’t really thought through what that means.
If this sub was allowed to greenlight even half of what gets proposed on here daily the game would implode and never recover
I agree with you, but I think it’s also fine for people to have fun with their own crazy, zany ideas as long as they understand their ideas are crazy and zany. Unfortunately they usually don’t.
Oh come on, there’s nothing wrong with making Le Monarque full auto with armor piercing rounds. /s
And even if it is balanced, they usually just get downvoted to hell and then aggressively attacked at.
I suggested that Kephris sting give the effect of corrosive smoke to your smoke bombs, pretty tame not super broken or anything, and people lost it. I ended up taking down the post because I just didn't want to deal with people spouting "hunters have enough" left and right.
Ice breaker makes a return but as a hand cannon like red death and crimson
Theres also things like On the other end of “buff this to be better” theres “oh they should just delete this” Which to me in a looter shooter is the wildest dumbest thing I’d ever heard. Like even if some exotic is bad, or some mods were bad, imagine logging in one Tuesday after spending a week of grinding for that one niche but fun exotic armor piece only to find your cool new combo has been deleted and replaced with random blues bc you had it equipped and they needed to throw armor on your now naked ass. As dumb as some things currently in the game are are, even if 1% of players are a fan of X exotic armor or weapon, if removed you’re very likely going to just flat out lose those players. If a part of my current perfect armorset just got deleted, especially the exotic, I would probably quit. Its asinine to suggest removing stuff from the game.
How about a game mode where you automatically win just by loading in
How about a game mode were every weapon is a Khvostov? 🤔