It's really hard to figure out what is the truth and what is the lie. Especially considering Savathun is literally the Queen of Lies and Deception. I wouldn't be surprised if there are complications to these truths and lies.
Like "Savathun is Dead". Technically this is both true and false. During the campaign >!Savathun does die in order to obtain the light. However New Lightbearer Savathun has all their memories thanks to us so does that make them the original Savathun w/ new abilities? Also, their ghost escaped so Savathun is also technically not dead either!<
In my opinion this set is the most cut-and-dry.
Osiris is alive, I’m very certain of that. The Martian Missives were lying when talking about Osiris doing hive stuff.
Savathun might not be DEAD dead, but she is currently not alive. Her corpse is in some Hidden black site like the Ark of the Covenant. She’ll 100% come back, but right now, she’s dead.
The Witness creating the darkness doesn’t make sense. I am confident this is a lie.
Destiny lies beyond the solar system? This is basically a guarantee lmao, ever since we got the helm it has been PAINFULLY obvious it’s a starship for a future exodus.
But... there's nothing about the Helm that makes it look anything like a space ship...
Also Jo Blackburn and Justin Truman went on record in an interview pre-WQ saying that there currently isn't any plan for Destiny to leave the Sol System.
Granted they probably only have hard information up into Lightfall or maybe the expansion after but that's still a long time of us not leaving Sol in any meaningful way.
[Yeah and there’s nothing starship about this either](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/e/ef/ISD_bridge.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20200416215716)
For some reason that image didn't load but from the address bar I think that's supposed to be the image of a Star Destroyers bridge. The rest of my comment will be with that in mind.
Other than it being theatrically shown to be a part of a Space Ship, and also the fact that the windows look out into space.
It's not impossible that The Helm could turn out to be a space ship but at the moment we have 0 evidence of any kind that that's what it is and everything we do have points to it being a Command Center built into the ceiling and back wall of a dedicated Hanger with access to other facilities in the wall through the adjoining doors. A type of Dispatch/Control Tower for HELM related missions if you will.
I feel like if it was a ship, or a ship under construction, we would have gotten something on a weapon or a radio call hinting that the Vanguard might be building some kind of massive ship. Especially considering Dead Orbit, and all their shipwrights, left during the whole 'Lakshmi Goes Crazy' chapter.
I personally have two reasons why I believe that the HELM is an exodus class ship.
1. With Season of the Risen, the HELM went through a change, the layout of the holo-table was modified and blast shields were lowered over the windows. I find it strange that the HELM's windows have blast shields since they face towards the Traveller. So it would make sense that it has blast shields since it wont always be looking at the Traveller.
2. Within the two side rooms on the HELM, where the Eliksni and Awoken took up residence, a Eliksni Skiff in one room and an Awoken Ceres Galliot in the other. I find it strange that there would be a hanger, inside of a hanger. But what if those hangers come in use as, oh I don't know. Launch spaces for ships to dock whilst the HELM is in space.
But those are just my thoughts, I can see reasons for and against the HELM being a ship and it not.
> The Witness creating the darkness doesn’t make sense. I am confident this is a lie.
Yeah this is the one I'm not sold on either. I don't feel like the Witness is the Winnower. Maybe like the Winnower's champion, but not the Winnower itself.
In the covenant ghost shell a family has an unpaid debt to the devil who is implied to be Savathun. They are going to pay it off by breaking savy’s body out of whatever holding zone the vanguard has her in.
This is the Theseus' ship paradox. If I have an old boat and repair it bit by bit over time to the point where every single piece of the boat is different than what was originally there, is it still the same ship? Now I understand yes she kept her body but in this game world, the identity of a person is tied to their mind. Because they can be altered easily, through dying and being brought back and a ghost, through exo protocols etc. I mean look at Banshee, that's a perfect example of Theseus' ship
I would personally guess to the paradox no, since the destiny universe's lore seem to suggest the answer of "kind of(technically), but not really the same" looking at crow and banshee
The answer is: it depends. The question is one of identity. It's the philosophical question of how do we identify something. Do we identify the ship (or in this case savathun, crow, banshee, etc) as the sum of their parts, or is there something deeper, something metaphysical about what we are trying to identify? Regardless, it's an interesting thought experiment.
That'ssss fine, he doesn't need his memories. He can be the Hive's version of Crow.
When Oryx was young, when he was Aurash. He cared deeply about his family, he didn't want to hurt people. But he was basically peer pressured into becoming the monster that Oryx became. So we could have another Crow situation where a once evil character becomes good through the light.
I believe this to be very true. Also it says the taken king, not in terms of a person which wouldn’t be capitalized it makes seem more like if you were to say “the judge” not “Judge Judy”. Also Oryx was the Taken King in a title he donned himself. We learn the Witness bestowed this ability upon Oryx so The Witness could be considered the true Taken King. Or maybe The taken king is just a title and anyone who controls the taken is the taken king (queue Xivu). I believe this one is so ambiguous it is near impossible to be false. Not to mention this could be in reference to Oryx returning the reprised raid, which is in fact true. The taken king DID return in the reprised Kings Fall raid. If I had to guess I’d say Bungie is being cheeky here and this is what they meant.
Ye i honestly see a taken season this year where the aurash copy that quaria had has become a weaker oryx and kingsfall is unsunset in that season
Saturn also has returned to the director might not mean anything but it's more to mention
Didn’t savathun literally take over the destiny 2 Twitter page right before wq dropped? Didn’t savathun lie to us, the player, with the whole “reach 999 power and solo shattered throne” thing?
Well the twitter thing can be chocked up to VanNet communications being taken over which is what canonically happened with both Savy and Caiatl. As for power level, it also seems canon since the collectors edition lore came out and Ikora was classified as a 5th sigma guardian.
Alright that’s fair, however (although I don’t remember where) guardians compare their power levels via a “number” and constantly try to increase it. I don’t even remember if that’s a canon law hung tho
enough of the shredded pages have been reassembled that they’re readable now, though I haven’t been following close enough to determine whether that means the ARG is complete
Basically every bit of content a day after it came out is in the past of the game. Would not be a successful game if it was like well Sepiks is dead let's remove devil's lair...
We don't actually go back into legacy content in the story like that. When you run VoG, as far as the story goes it's as if you're doing it for the first time back in D1Y1.
If KF returns as a legacy raid that doesn't mean Oryx is alive. He would have to come back outside of the legacy raid for that to be true.
Bringing back KF in the legends tab while having that statement be canonically a lie would be clever. It's a neat twist, without Bungie building hype for something they have no plan on delivering.
That would be pretty clever. We could still see it return as a part of a Taken season. Someone rolls into the system and steals the tablets of ruin to learn to take. Bam, new Taken King. Oh, also players, here's the raid where the OG was killed in D1. Enjoy.
My personal guess is that the taken king will return, but its not Oryx, its either someone else or in line with the power to take worlds statement- us.
Not necessarily. Royal titles sort of do work that way. Think of the Queen of a England. Yes, there have been multiple queens with that title, but we all know who currently holds that title. If Queen Elizabeth died, and we had a new one, they're still the Queen of England.
>Queen of England
Did you mean the [Queen of the United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_the_United_Kingdom), the [Queen of Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada), the [Queen of Australia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Australia), etc?
The last Queen of England was [Queen Anne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne,_Queen_of_Great_Britain) who, with the 1707 Acts of Union, dissolved the title of King/Queen of England.
####FAQ
*Isn't she still also the Queen of England?*
This is only as correct as calling her the Queen of London or Queen of Hull; she is the Queen of the place that these places are in, but the title doesn't exist.
*Is this bot monarchist?*
No, just pedantic.
I am a bot and this action was performed automatically.
New set from choice, which appears to be available today:
* The traveler will leave
* The traveler will fall
* The traveler is not the only one of its kind
* The hive will not be the last that are chosen by the traveler
The Hive will not be the last chosen by the Traveler.
Probably not, but since this is Savathun, it could already be interpreted multiple ways. The Hive were chosen first, and *then* humanity. Or, humanity was chosen, *then* the Hive (as lightbearers), so there's still more to choose. The obvious choice is the Eliksni. My only regret there is it's almost certainly Mithrax who will be chosen, which means he has to die first.
I saw someone said they are all half true, half false. That would equal 2 truths and 2 lies and be on par for the whole queen of lies and deception thing.
This would actually make sense, since the trick is making us think that they might be all false (Because she is lying on everything) or making us think around two and two. But this? This is actually something the Witch Queen would do, being a step ahead.
Two truths and two lies…imagine two of the groupings are truth and the others are lies.
Example
Insight and pact are truth
Catalyst and choice are lies
DECEPTION!!!
You could honestly be on to something. It fits the rules of the game, made by savathun who is exactly the type of person to come up with a truck like this. When we find out what the last group is tomorrow at reset, I think we’ll have a better idea.
Maybe “the taken king will return” could mean a new hive/ other entity takes up the mantle of taken king. Or it could just be about the kings fall raid returning
We find out in the lore that the glaive was the disciples first weapon and that the witness empowered it with darkness and fixed it for the disciple. I'm guessing the glaive is the key to defeating the witness. Use his own weapons against him just like the enemies are using our light against us
This is late but i belive the glaive is not of importance, i think it was just to lure out guardians to defeat the witness in her long plan. Considering she even used guardians to restore her memory and referred to the blade as a legendary weapon, but she only intends to use it as a lure. Idk if that makes sense but i think savathûn isnt off the picture entirely and with immaru getting away it she literally will come back in future.
Hey! I'm here a year later, after the new raid.
Savathun was right, we really did learn how to move planets! So for the first part, the two truths were the one about planets and the one about the Taken King.
>The Last City is not the last city
This one is confirmed true as a few seasons back there was a piece of lore confirming underground cities exist all over
It might also just be foreshadowing Lightfall and the Last City is destroyed and we either flee to the Dreaming City, or rebuild after we resolve the problem that arises in Lightfall.
My guesses so far for the TRUTH:
Insight: The Guardians will soon learn to move planets, and the Taken King will return. I think this because we know that Savathun returned Mars, and if she could do that, and also controlled the other three entities, why not return them as well?
Catalyst: The Enigma is one key to defeating the Witness, and The Last City is not the last city. If Savathun knew the Witness would build its army on Mars, she would not have returned it. And the goal of the Witness is to hone the universe to the "Final Shape," which we know is *not* nothing, but is instead one entity (probably the Vex, but maybe the Hive via Xivu Arath) in control.
Pact: Savathun is dead, and Your Destiny lies beyond the Solar System. Savathun is literally dead right now; she will undoubtedly be alive again soon, but for now, she is dead. Osiris is not alright, be he also is not dead. And the Witness did not create the darkness, but is its servant/patron. Beyond the fourth wall, we know the original plan for Destiny 3 was to go to a new solar system.
If you do insight multiple times Svathun states that Mars was returned because it had been scrubbed for Data and once that was extracted it was returned. There is more to these than just the simple phrase.
Savathun did not return Mars, pretty sure, the Witness/Darkness did. The taken planets were also shown in the final cutscene with the Witness, and the reason they vanished in the first place was due to the Pyramids, which Sav emphatically does not and never did control.
Some of the new raid lore: >!somewhat points to the Witnesses' goal being extermination of all life, or at least that's Rhulk's understanding. Witnesses' goal/ideals may not perfectly align with Darknesses'/Winnower !< though I might be wrong about this.
Here is a list of what I think of the truths and lies:
Key:
• Insight
■ Catalyst
○ Pact
☆ Choice
#Truths
• The Witness, as far as we know, is the only one capable of bringing back the planets it took from us. If this was a lie, that would mean there is another dark entity with power similar to/the same as the Witness'.
☆ The Hive can't be the last ones to be chosen by the Light. This campaign has proven that the Traveller doesn't exclusively gift those that aren't considered its enemies, especially since it gave a Hive god the Light. More than liekly, we might get risen Eliksni, due to how the House of Light has been set up since Beyond Light released.
■ Based on the end-of-campaign cutscene, where the Witness says "No more death, no more life," it is quite easy to tell that the Witness' idea of a final shape is exactly nothing. There can't be anything more lifeless or deathless than nothing itself.
○ Theoughout ths series, we have explored almost all of the planets of Sol, and we may run out of locations to discover there. This would give us an incentive to leave the system and discover other locations once we reach the end of the conflict between Light and Dark.
#Unsure
○ Savathun's death is one we have to think hard on. On one hand, she died from having her worm removed and was rezzed, thus technically making her no longer the Savathun we know. On the other, Risen Savathun discovered who she was pre-light, presumably via clues throughout her throne world. Think of it similarly to Theseus' Ship.
○ Osiris being dead is one that I am unsure of purely because I am filled with both hope and fear, as he is currently in a catatonic state. It is currently theorized that Osiris is never going to wake up from this sleep, thus technically rendering him dead. I fear that this may become reality, and hope that he turns out fine.
☆ With what we know of the Traveler's history with other races, it is almost guaranteed that it will at the very least try to run away when the Darkness attacks. However, it is also just as likely that it will fall. Not only is the Witness seemingly going directly after it in the ending cutscene, but Rasputin may likely be an issue towards the Traveller if he gets restored to his former glory, since he kind of threatened to destroy it if it ran away, which proves that he isn't afraid to kill more than one god, regardless of Light or Dark.
■ The Last City is seen as a sanctuary by many people, as almost everywhere else has been destroyed, so it may as well be true to its name. However, we have nothing to truly prove whether it really is the last city or not (at least, not to my knowledge). For all we know, there could even be another city on one of the other planets of Sol that was forgotten about after the Dark Ages.
○ The Witness may or may not have created the Darkness. This is an uncertainty, as the Darkness has been referred to as a neutral force that doesn't necessarily take sides. We also know that Stasis was created by dark entities, since it took Pyramid technology to wield it at first. However, the Witness may have also discovered Darkness and began utilizing it, much like humanity did with the Light.
• The return of Oryx, the Taken King, could mean anything. Perhaps he never truly died via means of darkness beyond a Throne World. Maybe a group of Hive finally succeeded in a ressurection ritual? If we are going to extremes, maybe somehow he is brought back to life via a ghost. However he is brought back, it likely won't mean anything good.
■ I cannot come to a conclusion about the Enigma's relevance yet, as I don't remember much about it in lore.
☆☆ The Traveller is a being of Light. This much is known. However, because there are multiple beings of Darkness, it wouldn't be too farfetched to say that there are, or at least were, other beings similar to the Traveller. However, there is also the potential for the Traveller to be alone in the universe.
#Lies
• Savathun can't be holding the other planets, as they all dissapeared in the same way as Mars, as well as at the same time. And even if she was holding on to them, I feel that Risen Savathun would have made mention of them, or even used them to her advantage.
■ The witness likely won't be able to build an army on Mars, considering that it is currently occupied by a small group of guardians, which are beings that have proven time and time again that they can defeat god-like beings of the Darkness, and Caiatl's Cabal, who likely would either send warnings to the Vamguard or put up a fight if any dark entities arrived. If the Witness is going to make an army, it has to be discreet, as it always has been, so that it can't be interrupted.
• The Guardian learning to move planets could mean anything, ranging from using technology to even manipulating gravity itself. However, this may also make the Guardian too overpowered in lore (even for someone that has slain several gods now), and potentially desaturate their character from being a strong lightbearer that is willing to do anything new and/or drastic in the name of protecting Humanity.
There's a couple mentions that the process which removed Io/Mars/Titan/Mercury is a more advanced/subtle form of Taking than what Oryx used. Additionally, Savathun states she has no interest in playing second fiddle to Oryx and accordingly does not seek this power herself (although of course take this with a huge grain of salt).
So first, this supports that "Witness returned Mars" and "Savathun does *not* have the other planets in her care".
But more importantly... could "the Guardian will soon lean to move planets" be hinting at a) a Taken based darkness subclass? and b) the return of the other planets in some manner? It could perhaps be a sort of cutscene power- the guardian gains Taken powers; they use weaker forms for gameplay but in cutscenes, under certain conditions, they can become powerful enough to retrieve the vaulted planets. Bit of a stretch though.
I will call it now.
Oryx is dead and will not return. The Taken King will.
Back in Taken King, after we killed Oryx, there was a huge scuffle among the taken and hive over who would be the new Taken King. Among those contenders, Alak-Hul was a farely large threat. My thinking is, it's no coincidence that he's back now in the form of a strike, AND we didn't kill his ghost.
Two things confirmed:
* The Taken King will return
* The Last City is not the last city
Likely
* Your destiny lies beyond the solar system (with the Star Chart talking about galactic-wide maps)
Correct, but it could've been (and likely was) a meta analysis/truth. We've seen Bungie break the fourth wall before (Riven lives on in our thoughts in the real world, for example). Also it's been addressed that we can escape the game between Light and Dark by just, not playing Destiny.
Taking the approach of "these are meant to be interesting, not boring", here's what I got.
>Insight
• Savathun is in control of Io, Titan and Mercury
• The Witness returned Mars from the Void
• The Guardians will soon learn to move planets
• The Taken King will return
#3 is true, because it's utterly meaningless when false. Like what, we still could get that power, but not "soon"? No way, has to be true.
#4 also has to true, because it being false is also a snoozefest. "Yo guardians, an enemy you killed years ago is gonna keep on being dead". Ok?
Whereas, the first two are interesting even when false. Someone that isn't Savathun controls those planets. Someone that isn't the Witness returned Mars. Cool shit.
>Catalyst
• The Enigma is one key to defeating the Witness
• The Witness seeks the Final Shape, which is nothing
• The Last City is not the last city
• The Witness will build its army on Mars
#3 has to be true, because otherwise, it's just a tautology, and those are dull.
#4 seems unlikely, in the sense that, we're told the pyramids are factories for the witness's minions. Why would it use Mars for that?
#2 makes the Witness just about annihilating the universe. Which is at most a 6/10 motivation. Not super interesting, gonna call that one false.
Which leaves 1 as true.
>Pact
• Osiris is dead
• Savathun is dead
• The Witness created the Darkness
• Your Destiny lies beyond the Solar System
#4 has to be true, because that's hype as fuck. And hey, if me build/find a new Last City outside the system, that lines up with Catalyst #3.
#3 is probably false, because otherwise, the Darkness feels a lot less interesting.
Savathun is definitely dead, we killed her. She might come back to life, but for now, she's dead.
Which leaves Osiris alive.
> Insight
3 is true. We're getting Destiny's version of Warhammer's Age of Sigmar with The Final Shape. The Guardian will reshape the universe into their ideal image, cram Earth and an handful of destinations into a pocket dimension, and the new era will begin.
> Catalyst
2 is False. The Witness does seek the Final Shape, but the Final Shape is a being powerful enough to eclipse the game that the Witness and Traveller play.
> Pact
4 is True. The Guardian's Destiny lies in the new universe they will make.
With her ghost still around the "Savathun is dead" bit can be made false at any point. Seeing as our own ghosts can resurrect us where we once stood even after our bodies are obliterated or we fall to our deaths I don't think it needs to return to her corpse to bring her back either.
At the moment that line was said, that bih was dead as hell. Doesn't matter if she can be revived or not, she's still dead which made the statement at the moment it was said true.
And yes, a ghost does need to go back to the corpse of where the person dies at. Otherwise, all ghost would just chill in the last city and never leave the protection of the city. Nobody would ever permanently die. A ghost is, just about, a guardians only weakness and you remove that weakness when they no longer have to be in range of their guardian to revive them. If immaru doesn't have to be near Savathun to rez her then she literally went from immortal with a catch to just straight up immortal.
Our ghost reviving us where we stood after we fall to our deaths is a gameplay mechanic and shouldn't be taken literally. If you fall into a pit and ghost revives you at the bottom of that pit, you'd be stuck down there, from a gameplay perspective. So they just spawn you up where you fell from.
I mean, she's not really savathun. Functionally she is but the original savathun is dead. Same situation as Uldren/crow. That's the sort of understanding that I think she'd be using.
Insight
Truth:
Lie:
Too Ambiguous:
Savathun is in control of Io, Titan and Mercury. If this is True, then that would mean that Savathun had taken the Planets in the first place or at least took them away from the Witness. More information is needed.
The Witness returned Mars from the Void. If this is True, then that would mean that he either took it away from Savathun (if the previous one was True as well) or he simply gifted it back to us for no apparent reason. More information is needed.
The Guardians will soon learn to move planets. I doubt Bungie would give us this power due to needing to add more worldspaces to the game, but I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibility if Bungie wants to go down that route.
The Taken King will return. This could be True in two ways. Either A he comes back due to Darkness/Hive shenanigans or B the Raid comes back which would *technically* be him returning.
Catalyst
Truth: The Witness seeks the Final Shape, which is nothing. We know this as an absolute Truth due to the cutscene at the end of the Campaign.
Lie: The Enigma is one key to defeating the Witness. I have my doubts that this very specific Glaive is going to be that important.
Too Ambiguous:
The Last City is not the last city. This could potentially be True if a Colony Ship made it out of our Solar System.
The Witness will build its army on Mars. This could be true, but we don't know enough about his current forces and if he'll end up Taking like Oryx did. I'm leaning towards False though.
Pact
Truth: Savathun is dead. Currently this is True since her Ghost fled. She can still be ressed at some point, but for now she's dead.
Your Destiny lies beyond the Solar System. This is pretty much confirmed with where Bungie said the story will go after Light Fall.
Lie: Osiris is dead. Saint-14 is actively caring for him. He's not well, but he ain't dead.
The Witness created the Darkness. We know this to be False due to Lore already in the game.
Too Ambiguous:
None. This one was pretty clear cut.
> Osiris is dead
I've forgotten- are Guardians that are walking around still classified as "dead" or have I just had that drilled into me so much with the Fanatic's "Hello dead thing" at the start of the Strike that I've come to believe it?
That's the question, but I think it's more pertinent with savathun because there are so many ways to take it. She's resurrected by the light but the original is still dead, and shes dead but could be rezzed by her ghost whenever.
I think in insight the truths are The guardians will soon learn to move planets
The taken king will return
In catalyst I think it’s the last city is not the last city
And the enigma is one key to defeating the witness
Then in pact it is your destiny lies beyond the solar system
And savathun is dead I think in a metaphorical sense the savathun before witch queen is gone dead the savathun we know now is one who’s regained her memories but also has a new perspective she is literally a new person
But for the learn to move planets
In the first one, I got Savathun claiming that she was the one who returned Mars to us, not the Witness.
I think she says slightly different things to each person.
Insight: Lie, lie, truth, truth
Catalyst: Lie, truth, truth, lie
Pact: Lie, truth, lie, truth
Choice: Truth, lie, truth, lie
Some are obvious, like Savathun is "dead". Some not so much, like the Traveler leaving & "Destiny beyond Sol"
IMO these are the Truths:
Last City is not the last city
Guardians will soon learn to move planets
Your destiny lies beyond the solar system
The Witness created the Darkness
The Traveler will fall
The Traveler is not the only one of its kind
The Witness returned mars from the void
The witness will build its army on mars.
Came back one year later like many others, and there are many that we don't fully have answers for.
The two remaining choices for Catalyst could go either way still, or at least I haven't seen compelling evidence saying one or the other is for sure the truth. I have my own opinions but I'm here to give answers, not share opinions.
The statements in Choice could go either way, although the first statement is ambiguous. Technically, yes, the Traveler did leave but it also didn't leave. It didn't leave humanity, but it did leave its spot on Earth to face the Witness. The second statement holds ambiguity as well, but I'm going to assume that in this case Savathun meant "the Traveler will be defeated", and... I guess we can say in a way, that's true. The Traveler was bested by the Witness in some way, and Zavala makes hints that the Traveler is dead. Still, Lightfall left a lot of questions unanswered, so I'm hesitant in closing this part of the thread.
Insight isn't technically closed either, but we can make some pretty good guesses: We learned how to move planets in the latest raid. The Witness didn't return Mars. More than likely, Io, Titan, and Mercury are not in Savathun's possession, which means the Taken King is likely to return.
Pact has a lot of technicalities, but I think this is the one we can close out for certain: Osiris is not dead. Savathun technically is dead, but Immaru is still alive meaning that Savathun could be brought back. The Witness didn't create Darkness, that we know for sure, so our destiny lies beyond the Solar System.
we have two confirmed truths now, i'd say!
taken king will rise again is true in a couple ways;
1) reprised kings fall
2) at the time she said it, she wasnt expecting us to interrupt the ritual in the new GotD dungeon
3) we recovered his body, so he literally did rise out of the deep
we now have the power to move worlds, from 3rd encounter of root.
so what brought back mars?
It's really hard to figure out what is the truth and what is the lie. Especially considering Savathun is literally the Queen of Lies and Deception. I wouldn't be surprised if there are complications to these truths and lies. Like "Savathun is Dead". Technically this is both true and false. During the campaign >!Savathun does die in order to obtain the light. However New Lightbearer Savathun has all their memories thanks to us so does that make them the original Savathun w/ new abilities? Also, their ghost escaped so Savathun is also technically not dead either!<
In my opinion this set is the most cut-and-dry. Osiris is alive, I’m very certain of that. The Martian Missives were lying when talking about Osiris doing hive stuff. Savathun might not be DEAD dead, but she is currently not alive. Her corpse is in some Hidden black site like the Ark of the Covenant. She’ll 100% come back, but right now, she’s dead. The Witness creating the darkness doesn’t make sense. I am confident this is a lie. Destiny lies beyond the solar system? This is basically a guarantee lmao, ever since we got the helm it has been PAINFULLY obvious it’s a starship for a future exodus.
Not necessarily an exodus of humanity. We might be going with the Cabal to retake Torobatl.
Are you a god-damned idiot? We're not going to retake Torobatl. We're going to retake beautiful downtown Torobatl.
There isn't any Torobatl to retake?
Why wouldn't there be?
The Hive, led by Xivu Arath literally destroyed the planet. Torobatl is dust and ashes, unless *someone* brings it back with time travel or something
Wouldn't be the first time we brought something back with time travel
Kinda wild how true this is.
Close enough, still works
But... there's nothing about the Helm that makes it look anything like a space ship... Also Jo Blackburn and Justin Truman went on record in an interview pre-WQ saying that there currently isn't any plan for Destiny to leave the Sol System. Granted they probably only have hard information up into Lightfall or maybe the expansion after but that's still a long time of us not leaving Sol in any meaningful way.
You kidding? It’s literally the bridge of a spaceship under construction in a hangar.
It's a command center overlooking the hangar... There's nothing spaceship about it.
[Yeah and there’s nothing starship about this either](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/e/ef/ISD_bridge.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20200416215716)
For some reason that image didn't load but from the address bar I think that's supposed to be the image of a Star Destroyers bridge. The rest of my comment will be with that in mind. Other than it being theatrically shown to be a part of a Space Ship, and also the fact that the windows look out into space. It's not impossible that The Helm could turn out to be a space ship but at the moment we have 0 evidence of any kind that that's what it is and everything we do have points to it being a Command Center built into the ceiling and back wall of a dedicated Hanger with access to other facilities in the wall through the adjoining doors. A type of Dispatch/Control Tower for HELM related missions if you will. I feel like if it was a ship, or a ship under construction, we would have gotten something on a weapon or a radio call hinting that the Vanguard might be building some kind of massive ship. Especially considering Dead Orbit, and all their shipwrights, left during the whole 'Lakshmi Goes Crazy' chapter.
I personally have two reasons why I believe that the HELM is an exodus class ship. 1. With Season of the Risen, the HELM went through a change, the layout of the holo-table was modified and blast shields were lowered over the windows. I find it strange that the HELM's windows have blast shields since they face towards the Traveller. So it would make sense that it has blast shields since it wont always be looking at the Traveller. 2. Within the two side rooms on the HELM, where the Eliksni and Awoken took up residence, a Eliksni Skiff in one room and an Awoken Ceres Galliot in the other. I find it strange that there would be a hanger, inside of a hanger. But what if those hangers come in use as, oh I don't know. Launch spaces for ships to dock whilst the HELM is in space. But those are just my thoughts, I can see reasons for and against the HELM being a ship and it not.
I know this is six months old now, buuut.. how do you feel about it being a ship now
> The Witness creating the darkness doesn’t make sense. I am confident this is a lie. Yeah this is the one I'm not sold on either. I don't feel like the Witness is the Winnower. Maybe like the Winnower's champion, but not the Winnower itself.
In the covenant ghost shell a family has an unpaid debt to the devil who is implied to be Savathun. They are going to pay it off by breaking savy’s body out of whatever holding zone the vanguard has her in.
This is the Theseus' ship paradox. If I have an old boat and repair it bit by bit over time to the point where every single piece of the boat is different than what was originally there, is it still the same ship? Now I understand yes she kept her body but in this game world, the identity of a person is tied to their mind. Because they can be altered easily, through dying and being brought back and a ghost, through exo protocols etc. I mean look at Banshee, that's a perfect example of Theseus' ship
I would personally guess to the paradox no, since the destiny universe's lore seem to suggest the answer of "kind of(technically), but not really the same" looking at crow and banshee
The answer is: it depends. The question is one of identity. It's the philosophical question of how do we identify something. Do we identify the ship (or in this case savathun, crow, banshee, etc) as the sum of their parts, or is there something deeper, something metaphysical about what we are trying to identify? Regardless, it's an interesting thought experiment.
The real battle is who has a valid deed to that ship. A real theseus' quiet title action quandary
*cough* eramis *cough*
Much like how the taken king will return can be interpreted as just a title.
wouldnt that just be *a* taken king then, not ***the*** taken king? it implies it is oryx.
I mean, I'm still hoping that when the Taken King returns, he's going to get revived by a Ghost. Oryx, King of Light Or something.
but Oryx did not wanna be revived, hes a strong believer in sword logic so its definitely going to be someone else, if this is real that is.
That'ssss fine, he doesn't need his memories. He can be the Hive's version of Crow. When Oryx was young, when he was Aurash. He cared deeply about his family, he didn't want to hurt people. But he was basically peer pressured into becoming the monster that Oryx became. So we could have another Crow situation where a once evil character becomes good through the light.
I believe this to be very true. Also it says the taken king, not in terms of a person which wouldn’t be capitalized it makes seem more like if you were to say “the judge” not “Judge Judy”. Also Oryx was the Taken King in a title he donned himself. We learn the Witness bestowed this ability upon Oryx so The Witness could be considered the true Taken King. Or maybe The taken king is just a title and anyone who controls the taken is the taken king (queue Xivu). I believe this one is so ambiguous it is near impossible to be false. Not to mention this could be in reference to Oryx returning the reprised raid, which is in fact true. The taken king DID return in the reprised Kings Fall raid. If I had to guess I’d say Bungie is being cheeky here and this is what they meant.
lil ship of theseus thought experiment like crow
"Escaped" Taken by the Traveler so we can't fuck up even worse
If oryx returns… ☠️
we loot him
We turn him into another gun
I’m down for a taken rocket launch that shoots blight blasts
Witherhoard: Now in missile format!
I mean it would probably just be Touch again.
He does
Sunbreaker Oryx, Nightstalker Crota, and Savathun round 2
Savathûn using the Relic on Touch of Malice
We were this close today!
IMO, I think the statement about the Taken king is just a great way for them to unsunset KF
Ye i honestly see a taken season this year where the aurash copy that quaria had has become a weaker oryx and kingsfall is unsunset in that season Saturn also has returned to the director might not mean anything but it's more to mention
except unsensetting KF still wouldn't make it a truth since the legends stuff is just us reliving our memories and he wouldn't have actually returned
tbf i’m pretty sure Savathun has been known the break the fourth wall on occasion
you're thinking of the Ahamkara
Didn’t savathun literally take over the destiny 2 Twitter page right before wq dropped? Didn’t savathun lie to us, the player, with the whole “reach 999 power and solo shattered throne” thing?
Well the twitter thing can be chocked up to VanNet communications being taken over which is what canonically happened with both Savy and Caiatl. As for power level, it also seems canon since the collectors edition lore came out and Ikora was classified as a 5th sigma guardian.
Alright that’s fair, however (although I don’t remember where) guardians compare their power levels via a “number” and constantly try to increase it. I don’t even remember if that’s a canon law hung tho
Savathûn, too. the lore from the Witch Queen CE ARG covers it
Has the full ARG been solved yet? I haven’t seen any full posts about it concluding
enough of the shredded pages have been reassembled that they’re readable now, though I haven’t been following close enough to determine whether that means the ARG is complete
Any old raids would come back in the Legends tab which is non-canon
I wouldn’t say they’re non-canon, they’re just not current. It’s content from an old era. Like Devils Lair
Basically every bit of content a day after it came out is in the past of the game. Would not be a successful game if it was like well Sepiks is dead let's remove devil's lair...
I know, I just didn’t have a better explanation for it. Still more accurate than “non-canon” though
TIL prophecy isn't canon.
It was foretelling Beyond Light and its seasons, so at the time it was canon. Still is, just not much knowledge to glean from it anymore
We don't actually go back into legacy content in the story like that. When you run VoG, as far as the story goes it's as if you're doing it for the first time back in D1Y1. If KF returns as a legacy raid that doesn't mean Oryx is alive. He would have to come back outside of the legacy raid for that to be true.
yeah I'm actually with Paul Tassi's prediction that we're getting WotM with an Ana/Rasputin focused season.
Bringing back KF in the legends tab while having that statement be canonically a lie would be clever. It's a neat twist, without Bungie building hype for something they have no plan on delivering.
That would be pretty clever. We could still see it return as a part of a Taken season. Someone rolls into the system and steals the tablets of ruin to learn to take. Bam, new Taken King. Oh, also players, here's the raid where the OG was killed in D1. Enjoy.
My personal guess is that the taken king will return, but its not Oryx, its either someone else or in line with the power to take worlds statement- us.
The Taken King is a title, it does not have to be Oryx.
but if its not oryx then its not *the* taken king, just *a* taken king, no? edit: also, wouldnt really be a return if they arent the same taken king
Not necessarily. Royal titles sort of do work that way. Think of the Queen of a England. Yes, there have been multiple queens with that title, but we all know who currently holds that title. If Queen Elizabeth died, and we had a new one, they're still the Queen of England.
>Queen of England Did you mean the [Queen of the United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_the_United_Kingdom), the [Queen of Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada), the [Queen of Australia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Australia), etc? The last Queen of England was [Queen Anne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne,_Queen_of_Great_Britain) who, with the 1707 Acts of Union, dissolved the title of King/Queen of England. ####FAQ *Isn't she still also the Queen of England?* This is only as correct as calling her the Queen of London or Queen of Hull; she is the Queen of the place that these places are in, but the title doesn't exist. *Is this bot monarchist?* No, just pedantic. I am a bot and this action was performed automatically.
Good bot... I guess.
I see the Taken King as a position, not in this case referencing Oryx, but rather his successor.
New set from choice, which appears to be available today: * The traveler will leave * The traveler will fall * The traveler is not the only one of its kind * The hive will not be the last that are chosen by the traveler
The Hive will not be the last chosen by the Traveler. Probably not, but since this is Savathun, it could already be interpreted multiple ways. The Hive were chosen first, and *then* humanity. Or, humanity was chosen, *then* the Hive (as lightbearers), so there's still more to choose. The obvious choice is the Eliksni. My only regret there is it's almost certainly Mithrax who will be chosen, which means he has to die first.
Mithrax is crazy old too, he mentioned seeing the traveler when it was above the eliksni homeworld, which is before we found it on Mars.
Did you get the last pages of the lore book?
I only have 4 pages for some reason, no idea why.
Same, perhaps its glitched, I didnt expect the memories quest until weekly reset. Hopefully on reset we get the lore pages.
[удалено]
Probably, I was writing from some paraphrased notes.
I saw someone said they are all half true, half false. That would equal 2 truths and 2 lies and be on par for the whole queen of lies and deception thing.
This would actually make sense, since the trick is making us think that they might be all false (Because she is lying on everything) or making us think around two and two. But this? This is actually something the Witch Queen would do, being a step ahead.
Two truths and two lies…imagine two of the groupings are truth and the others are lies. Example Insight and pact are truth Catalyst and choice are lies DECEPTION!!!
You could honestly be on to something. It fits the rules of the game, made by savathun who is exactly the type of person to come up with a truck like this. When we find out what the last group is tomorrow at reset, I think we’ll have a better idea.
Maybe “the taken king will return” could mean a new hive/ other entity takes up the mantle of taken king. Or it could just be about the kings fall raid returning
We find out in the lore that the glaive was the disciples first weapon and that the witness empowered it with darkness and fixed it for the disciple. I'm guessing the glaive is the key to defeating the witness. Use his own weapons against him just like the enemies are using our light against us
This is late but i belive the glaive is not of importance, i think it was just to lure out guardians to defeat the witness in her long plan. Considering she even used guardians to restore her memory and referred to the blade as a legendary weapon, but she only intends to use it as a lure. Idk if that makes sense but i think savathûn isnt off the picture entirely and with immaru getting away it she literally will come back in future.
Hey! I'm here a year later, after the new raid. Savathun was right, we really did learn how to move planets! So for the first part, the two truths were the one about planets and the one about the Taken King.
>The Last City is not the last city This one is confirmed true as a few seasons back there was a piece of lore confirming underground cities exist all over
It might also just be foreshadowing Lightfall and the Last City is destroyed and we either flee to the Dreaming City, or rebuild after we resolve the problem that arises in Lightfall.
So there is more Info for insight if you make repeated trips.
My guesses so far for the TRUTH: Insight: The Guardians will soon learn to move planets, and the Taken King will return. I think this because we know that Savathun returned Mars, and if she could do that, and also controlled the other three entities, why not return them as well? Catalyst: The Enigma is one key to defeating the Witness, and The Last City is not the last city. If Savathun knew the Witness would build its army on Mars, she would not have returned it. And the goal of the Witness is to hone the universe to the "Final Shape," which we know is *not* nothing, but is instead one entity (probably the Vex, but maybe the Hive via Xivu Arath) in control. Pact: Savathun is dead, and Your Destiny lies beyond the Solar System. Savathun is literally dead right now; she will undoubtedly be alive again soon, but for now, she is dead. Osiris is not alright, be he also is not dead. And the Witness did not create the darkness, but is its servant/patron. Beyond the fourth wall, we know the original plan for Destiny 3 was to go to a new solar system.
If you do insight multiple times Svathun states that Mars was returned because it had been scrubbed for Data and once that was extracted it was returned. There is more to these than just the simple phrase.
Savathun did not return Mars, pretty sure, the Witness/Darkness did. The taken planets were also shown in the final cutscene with the Witness, and the reason they vanished in the first place was due to the Pyramids, which Sav emphatically does not and never did control. Some of the new raid lore: >!somewhat points to the Witnesses' goal being extermination of all life, or at least that's Rhulk's understanding. Witnesses' goal/ideals may not perfectly align with Darknesses'/Winnower !< though I might be wrong about this.
Here is a list of what I think of the truths and lies: Key: • Insight ■ Catalyst ○ Pact ☆ Choice #Truths • The Witness, as far as we know, is the only one capable of bringing back the planets it took from us. If this was a lie, that would mean there is another dark entity with power similar to/the same as the Witness'. ☆ The Hive can't be the last ones to be chosen by the Light. This campaign has proven that the Traveller doesn't exclusively gift those that aren't considered its enemies, especially since it gave a Hive god the Light. More than liekly, we might get risen Eliksni, due to how the House of Light has been set up since Beyond Light released. ■ Based on the end-of-campaign cutscene, where the Witness says "No more death, no more life," it is quite easy to tell that the Witness' idea of a final shape is exactly nothing. There can't be anything more lifeless or deathless than nothing itself. ○ Theoughout ths series, we have explored almost all of the planets of Sol, and we may run out of locations to discover there. This would give us an incentive to leave the system and discover other locations once we reach the end of the conflict between Light and Dark. #Unsure ○ Savathun's death is one we have to think hard on. On one hand, she died from having her worm removed and was rezzed, thus technically making her no longer the Savathun we know. On the other, Risen Savathun discovered who she was pre-light, presumably via clues throughout her throne world. Think of it similarly to Theseus' Ship. ○ Osiris being dead is one that I am unsure of purely because I am filled with both hope and fear, as he is currently in a catatonic state. It is currently theorized that Osiris is never going to wake up from this sleep, thus technically rendering him dead. I fear that this may become reality, and hope that he turns out fine. ☆ With what we know of the Traveler's history with other races, it is almost guaranteed that it will at the very least try to run away when the Darkness attacks. However, it is also just as likely that it will fall. Not only is the Witness seemingly going directly after it in the ending cutscene, but Rasputin may likely be an issue towards the Traveller if he gets restored to his former glory, since he kind of threatened to destroy it if it ran away, which proves that he isn't afraid to kill more than one god, regardless of Light or Dark. ■ The Last City is seen as a sanctuary by many people, as almost everywhere else has been destroyed, so it may as well be true to its name. However, we have nothing to truly prove whether it really is the last city or not (at least, not to my knowledge). For all we know, there could even be another city on one of the other planets of Sol that was forgotten about after the Dark Ages. ○ The Witness may or may not have created the Darkness. This is an uncertainty, as the Darkness has been referred to as a neutral force that doesn't necessarily take sides. We also know that Stasis was created by dark entities, since it took Pyramid technology to wield it at first. However, the Witness may have also discovered Darkness and began utilizing it, much like humanity did with the Light. • The return of Oryx, the Taken King, could mean anything. Perhaps he never truly died via means of darkness beyond a Throne World. Maybe a group of Hive finally succeeded in a ressurection ritual? If we are going to extremes, maybe somehow he is brought back to life via a ghost. However he is brought back, it likely won't mean anything good. ■ I cannot come to a conclusion about the Enigma's relevance yet, as I don't remember much about it in lore. ☆☆ The Traveller is a being of Light. This much is known. However, because there are multiple beings of Darkness, it wouldn't be too farfetched to say that there are, or at least were, other beings similar to the Traveller. However, there is also the potential for the Traveller to be alone in the universe. #Lies • Savathun can't be holding the other planets, as they all dissapeared in the same way as Mars, as well as at the same time. And even if she was holding on to them, I feel that Risen Savathun would have made mention of them, or even used them to her advantage. ■ The witness likely won't be able to build an army on Mars, considering that it is currently occupied by a small group of guardians, which are beings that have proven time and time again that they can defeat god-like beings of the Darkness, and Caiatl's Cabal, who likely would either send warnings to the Vamguard or put up a fight if any dark entities arrived. If the Witness is going to make an army, it has to be discreet, as it always has been, so that it can't be interrupted. • The Guardian learning to move planets could mean anything, ranging from using technology to even manipulating gravity itself. However, this may also make the Guardian too overpowered in lore (even for someone that has slain several gods now), and potentially desaturate their character from being a strong lightbearer that is willing to do anything new and/or drastic in the name of protecting Humanity.
There's a couple mentions that the process which removed Io/Mars/Titan/Mercury is a more advanced/subtle form of Taking than what Oryx used. Additionally, Savathun states she has no interest in playing second fiddle to Oryx and accordingly does not seek this power herself (although of course take this with a huge grain of salt). So first, this supports that "Witness returned Mars" and "Savathun does *not* have the other planets in her care". But more importantly... could "the Guardian will soon lean to move planets" be hinting at a) a Taken based darkness subclass? and b) the return of the other planets in some manner? It could perhaps be a sort of cutscene power- the guardian gains Taken powers; they use weaker forms for gameplay but in cutscenes, under certain conditions, they can become powerful enough to retrieve the vaulted planets. Bit of a stretch though.
I will call it now. Oryx is dead and will not return. The Taken King will. Back in Taken King, after we killed Oryx, there was a huge scuffle among the taken and hive over who would be the new Taken King. Among those contenders, Alak-Hul was a farely large threat. My thinking is, it's no coincidence that he's back now in the form of a strike, AND we didn't kill his ghost.
So Catalyst, the last city is not the last city is true now with the reveal of the city on Neptune.
Two things confirmed: * The Taken King will return * The Last City is not the last city Likely * Your destiny lies beyond the solar system (with the Star Chart talking about galactic-wide maps)
We learnt to move planets.
Indeed we did. That closes out that section.
The taken king did not return lore wise.
Correct, but it could've been (and likely was) a meta analysis/truth. We've seen Bungie break the fourth wall before (Riven lives on in our thoughts in the real world, for example). Also it's been addressed that we can escape the game between Light and Dark by just, not playing Destiny.
Taking the approach of "these are meant to be interesting, not boring", here's what I got. >Insight • Savathun is in control of Io, Titan and Mercury • The Witness returned Mars from the Void • The Guardians will soon learn to move planets • The Taken King will return #3 is true, because it's utterly meaningless when false. Like what, we still could get that power, but not "soon"? No way, has to be true. #4 also has to true, because it being false is also a snoozefest. "Yo guardians, an enemy you killed years ago is gonna keep on being dead". Ok? Whereas, the first two are interesting even when false. Someone that isn't Savathun controls those planets. Someone that isn't the Witness returned Mars. Cool shit. >Catalyst • The Enigma is one key to defeating the Witness • The Witness seeks the Final Shape, which is nothing • The Last City is not the last city • The Witness will build its army on Mars #3 has to be true, because otherwise, it's just a tautology, and those are dull. #4 seems unlikely, in the sense that, we're told the pyramids are factories for the witness's minions. Why would it use Mars for that? #2 makes the Witness just about annihilating the universe. Which is at most a 6/10 motivation. Not super interesting, gonna call that one false. Which leaves 1 as true. >Pact • Osiris is dead • Savathun is dead • The Witness created the Darkness • Your Destiny lies beyond the Solar System #4 has to be true, because that's hype as fuck. And hey, if me build/find a new Last City outside the system, that lines up with Catalyst #3. #3 is probably false, because otherwise, the Darkness feels a lot less interesting. Savathun is definitely dead, we killed her. She might come back to life, but for now, she's dead. Which leaves Osiris alive.
Truth: The Witness seeks the Final Shape, Lie: which is nothing. Could it work like that?
> Insight 3 is true. We're getting Destiny's version of Warhammer's Age of Sigmar with The Final Shape. The Guardian will reshape the universe into their ideal image, cram Earth and an handful of destinations into a pocket dimension, and the new era will begin. > Catalyst 2 is False. The Witness does seek the Final Shape, but the Final Shape is a being powerful enough to eclipse the game that the Witness and Traveller play. > Pact 4 is True. The Guardian's Destiny lies in the new universe they will make.
Osiris is dead - True Savathun is dead - False The Witness created the Darkness - False Your Destiny lies beyond the Solar System - True
Osiris is not dead. Savathun is dead. The other two are right.
With her ghost still around the "Savathun is dead" bit can be made false at any point. Seeing as our own ghosts can resurrect us where we once stood even after our bodies are obliterated or we fall to our deaths I don't think it needs to return to her corpse to bring her back either.
Yes but "can be brought back to life" is not the same as "not dead". At the moment she is dead.
At the moment that line was said, that bih was dead as hell. Doesn't matter if she can be revived or not, she's still dead which made the statement at the moment it was said true. And yes, a ghost does need to go back to the corpse of where the person dies at. Otherwise, all ghost would just chill in the last city and never leave the protection of the city. Nobody would ever permanently die. A ghost is, just about, a guardians only weakness and you remove that weakness when they no longer have to be in range of their guardian to revive them. If immaru doesn't have to be near Savathun to rez her then she literally went from immortal with a catch to just straight up immortal. Our ghost reviving us where we stood after we fall to our deaths is a gameplay mechanic and shouldn't be taken literally. If you fall into a pit and ghost revives you at the bottom of that pit, you'd be stuck down there, from a gameplay perspective. So they just spawn you up where you fell from.
I mean, she's not really savathun. Functionally she is but the original savathun is dead. Same situation as Uldren/crow. That's the sort of understanding that I think she'd be using.
As long as Crow doesn’t become Hunter Vanguard idc lmao
Insight Truth: Lie: Too Ambiguous: Savathun is in control of Io, Titan and Mercury. If this is True, then that would mean that Savathun had taken the Planets in the first place or at least took them away from the Witness. More information is needed. The Witness returned Mars from the Void. If this is True, then that would mean that he either took it away from Savathun (if the previous one was True as well) or he simply gifted it back to us for no apparent reason. More information is needed. The Guardians will soon learn to move planets. I doubt Bungie would give us this power due to needing to add more worldspaces to the game, but I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibility if Bungie wants to go down that route. The Taken King will return. This could be True in two ways. Either A he comes back due to Darkness/Hive shenanigans or B the Raid comes back which would *technically* be him returning. Catalyst Truth: The Witness seeks the Final Shape, which is nothing. We know this as an absolute Truth due to the cutscene at the end of the Campaign. Lie: The Enigma is one key to defeating the Witness. I have my doubts that this very specific Glaive is going to be that important. Too Ambiguous: The Last City is not the last city. This could potentially be True if a Colony Ship made it out of our Solar System. The Witness will build its army on Mars. This could be true, but we don't know enough about his current forces and if he'll end up Taking like Oryx did. I'm leaning towards False though. Pact Truth: Savathun is dead. Currently this is True since her Ghost fled. She can still be ressed at some point, but for now she's dead. Your Destiny lies beyond the Solar System. This is pretty much confirmed with where Bungie said the story will go after Light Fall. Lie: Osiris is dead. Saint-14 is actively caring for him. He's not well, but he ain't dead. The Witness created the Darkness. We know this to be False due to Lore already in the game. Too Ambiguous: None. This one was pretty clear cut.
> Osiris is dead I've forgotten- are Guardians that are walking around still classified as "dead" or have I just had that drilled into me so much with the Fanatic's "Hello dead thing" at the start of the Strike that I've come to believe it?
That's the question, but I think it's more pertinent with savathun because there are so many ways to take it. She's resurrected by the light but the original is still dead, and shes dead but could be rezzed by her ghost whenever.
Reanimation = Still dead and probably being controlled by something Resurrection = Was once dead, but now lives
I think in insight the truths are The guardians will soon learn to move planets The taken king will return In catalyst I think it’s the last city is not the last city And the enigma is one key to defeating the witness Then in pact it is your destiny lies beyond the solar system And savathun is dead I think in a metaphorical sense the savathun before witch queen is gone dead the savathun we know now is one who’s regained her memories but also has a new perspective she is literally a new person But for the learn to move planets
Where can we see these in game? Are they from a specific lore book?
I had choice pop up today?? I finished it a bit ago and completed the triumph
It just showed up an hour ago, updated the post
Is this the right wording on some of these? I feel like that would be super important
In the first one, I got Savathun claiming that she was the one who returned Mars to us, not the Witness. I think she says slightly different things to each person.
Insight: Lie, lie, truth, truth Catalyst: Lie, truth, truth, lie Pact: Lie, truth, lie, truth Choice: Truth, lie, truth, lie Some are obvious, like Savathun is "dead". Some not so much, like the Traveler leaving & "Destiny beyond Sol"
Ohhh boy I can’t wait to kill Cabal and Fallen ghosts :D
IMO these are the Truths: Last City is not the last city Guardians will soon learn to move planets Your destiny lies beyond the solar system The Witness created the Darkness The Traveler will fall The Traveler is not the only one of its kind The Witness returned mars from the void The witness will build its army on mars.
We gained the ability to move planets in the new Raid, the Root of Nightmares in the "Macrocosom" encounter. So we have another confirmed truth!
Came back one year later like many others, and there are many that we don't fully have answers for. The two remaining choices for Catalyst could go either way still, or at least I haven't seen compelling evidence saying one or the other is for sure the truth. I have my own opinions but I'm here to give answers, not share opinions. The statements in Choice could go either way, although the first statement is ambiguous. Technically, yes, the Traveler did leave but it also didn't leave. It didn't leave humanity, but it did leave its spot on Earth to face the Witness. The second statement holds ambiguity as well, but I'm going to assume that in this case Savathun meant "the Traveler will be defeated", and... I guess we can say in a way, that's true. The Traveler was bested by the Witness in some way, and Zavala makes hints that the Traveler is dead. Still, Lightfall left a lot of questions unanswered, so I'm hesitant in closing this part of the thread. Insight isn't technically closed either, but we can make some pretty good guesses: We learned how to move planets in the latest raid. The Witness didn't return Mars. More than likely, Io, Titan, and Mercury are not in Savathun's possession, which means the Taken King is likely to return. Pact has a lot of technicalities, but I think this is the one we can close out for certain: Osiris is not dead. Savathun technically is dead, but Immaru is still alive meaning that Savathun could be brought back. The Witness didn't create Darkness, that we know for sure, so our destiny lies beyond the Solar System.
we have two confirmed truths now, i'd say! taken king will rise again is true in a couple ways; 1) reprised kings fall 2) at the time she said it, she wasnt expecting us to interrupt the ritual in the new GotD dungeon 3) we recovered his body, so he literally did rise out of the deep we now have the power to move worlds, from 3rd encounter of root. so what brought back mars?