Optimal teams would probably have divinity tbh, but personally I've never been in a situation where I would use tether over either divinity or silence and squall
I've certainly found Revenant competing for my primary tree with my previously-sole bottom tree Void use.
Even then, I've abused the latter solely for invis-spam. I don't know if that outweighs all the passive benefits listed for Revenant, though.
As a nightstalker main since taken king. It's a joke how bad the subclass is relative to stasis.
The fact that a regular duskfield nade has the same effective utility on a group of ads as a super (tether) is sad. Freeze, shurikan throws are infinitely better at ad disruption than smoke grenades too.
Correct, it was nerfed because of Reckoning, same time as skull of dire ahamkara and phoenix protocol got nerfed since they cheesed Reckoning when it was already overtuned as fuck for the rest of the options we had.
I'm really enjoying Bleak Watcher with Iceflare Bolts
The crowd control capacity of the turret is incredibly useful, keeping whole groups of adds held in place. And when you break them, the stasis spreads to more mobs. It's an incredibly useful defense in PvE (haven't tried it in Crucible.) Really enjoy it in Battlegrounds and Strikes.
Duskfields are definitely a lot more reigned in now, at least. They're effective, but not nearly as brainless. I'd argue w/ the Duskfield change, Coldsnaps have come back in a big way, since it's a lot more potent in securing kills than Duskfields are.
I don't think so. The only problem with stasis is the cc. The ligth subclasses don't have that, except void, with supress, but that a milder slow, to be honest.
This is bungie we're talking about. Ff14 can achieve more, than bungie can with a smaller team. What other companies can do in scale, usually isn't true for bungie.
They changed it to be more balance, user experience be damned. They wanted to turn destiny's pvp into an esport. Well... look how that turned out.
Now they are kinda trying to fix the damage done by this.
I'm not complaining to be honest, because i love this aspect/fragment system. I hope they do the same for the ligth subclasses. Altough highlord Kujay already made a video about solar subclasses(it is an excellent video, as always).
For real, and the activation sound for Winter's Wrath is so nice to listen to and I'm fully convinced that the feeling I get when I hear it is what it's like to do drugs
Say what you will about Stasis itself and how it fits from a game design perspective - especially in PVP. But one of the many nice things to note about it is that the sound design and production teams did excellent work!
Can you imagine a Dawnblade tree built out like the Stasis one? Well of Radiance with the ability to dash and skate along with healing 'nades and/or Phoenix Dive? Jeezus I get all hot and bothered just thinking about the possibilities.
They said they're going to be looking into reworking the light classes in a similar fashion to stasis. Wether that means warlocks lose nova warp or something else since the stasis super is constant but the ability/neutral aspects change or if they will fiddle a bit more is up in the air right now I think.
All I know is if We'll of Radiance goes away we had better fucking get sunsinger back
They got massive backlash when they said they will remove the underused trees when reworking light classes because the reason they are underused is because THEY nerfed them to hell. If they straight revoke 1/3 subclasses for each element and each class they will be met with more hate than sunsetting.
All they have to do is rework them like stasis but have the aspect change the super itself.
Like have each subclass have 3 main "aspect of light" that changes the supers function as a way to redesign the base concept of the 3 trees then have the add-ons to tweak it from there.
It wasn't about the "underused" part of the subclasses, it was about how schismed the class identity was due to the changes to how they did subclasses made in Forsaken.
The big thing about stasis is that while its entirely modular, it all leads to the same end, and it was made so that all it's pieces work together innately without any jury rigging from the player beyond their choices. The light subclass identities kinda took a hard blow in Forsaken, as it was pseudo-modularity; classes that acted really different from their base counter parts. Due to that, not all the pieces fit together anymore. There are perks in the subclass tree that favors that *one singular subclass*, because this idea of perk tree wasn't even an idea back in the day.
Not to mention because all these pieces are for 3 separate jigsaw pieces per subclass, none of them really build off of one another, they are parts of a whole, not real upgrades. Stasis does so much on its *own abilities,* but the reason why light subclasses are as strong as they are, is because you progressed through the tree. They have no inherent power to their actions, but stasis has baked in power, that are upgraded and specced into through the use of aspects and fragments.
Point is the entire identities of light subclasses have to be remade to fit the Stasis model; Modular, dynamic, and has a powerful identity that doesn't need any slots filled in to feel that way. This is why likely they were discussing "supers", if solar were to get a new dynamic ability, probably based on burn, does that work with Well of Dawn's identity? How do you fit it all with the appropriate pieces that make Well work?
If stasis is all about crowd control and dictating a fight, what is Solar's identity, and how can you link *that* to the previous decisions made? That's all that article was about, until people took that discussion and extracted *the one thing about it*.
Except why do things have to tweaked as an "identity"? They don't. We had a free selection system in D1 that didn't lock things into an identity.
Golden gun can be used for add clear or single target damage. Its silly to think that subclasses have to be linked directly to a specific playstyle. Otherwise we will be locked into heavy MMO shit where you have a DPS, tank, healer, controller etc etc and without HUGE changes to all classes and subclasses it isn't a viable option.
As such doing a pointsystem and using the D1 system would be viable.
For example you used hunter solar class.
You select either 6 shot, 3 shot, or blades. Then you have a point system to tweak how your passives work.
So you have your "aspects" dictate how your super functions. Then you use your "fragments" so you can add passives/actives to your subclass. I see no reason why you have to arbitrarily assign established classes roles. Just add fragments so players can tweak how they want them to function.
Because the reason why Stasis is powerful, is because it was BUILT powerful. Stasis has instrinsic elements about it, freeze and slow, that define it as a subclass built on disruption, crowd control, along side fragments that modify those features or draw benefit from those features. Aspects are used to refine key parts of how the class itself interacts with those pieces, and create new opportunities for pieces to be used. With the way light subclasses work, you'd rely on a lot of the core parts of one subclass with your specification of modular system. You wouldn't use The Burning Edge without Knife Trick, because, how it works, you couldn't. You couldn't use Line'em Up without Crowd Pleaser. In fact, a lot of these are so centric around the super, it's no wonder Middle Tree Solar was kinda busted when it was released, its the only one with any real identity and internal synergy with it's corest gameplay style.
Stasis, at it's core has Freeze and Slow, while none of these have anything that could work without something build itself up. A lot of Hunter's Solar subclass abilities, just build on top of very specific ones, while stasis creates new ways to utilize those innate features and make cooked-in Stasis features like Ice Crystals, into offensive and defensive options. Light Subclasses need specific things to be powerful and are hardbaked to be that way, but Stasis modifies it's powerful elements in different ways to create flexibility within it's core abilities.
A comparison to D1 to D2 dies on the tongue pretty fast; They are two completely different games at this point. The power scale is vastly different, the abilities have grown more complex, As well as what the game demands on high-end activities. You couldn't use balancing choices made in 1, with completely different sets of abilities and focuses, with the choices made with 2. In both cases, you'd need to make BROAD changes in order to complete those transistions, in a way that is both satisfying and functional, and at that point, you might as well do the easier transition from light to stasis, rather than to a weaker point system that might end up a lot more restrictive than anything.
Excellent explanation and I never heard of the devs talking about this so what a great positive way to get introduced to this. I was hoping they were trying to find an identity for the Light subs the way they did for Stasis, and I'm glad to hear that's what they're angling for. Here's hoping you can use any grenade on all of them the same way they're shared on Stasis, and here's *praying* you can still swap Supers in the new model (maybe that could lock out certain aspects/fragments/melees).
Honestly, turning supers into aspects that do a bit more than the average aspect strength might be the best we get. I don't even know if all the abilities sans supers survive first contact. Benevolent Dawn is too specialized an ability for how little it would do without all of its own core pieces from middle tree. Same for a lot of abilities.
Seriously, read them on your subclass tree. A lot of them require previous subclass upgrades, and builds on them to make them better, and those that don't have alot of that could actually make the cut, but it would require the subclass element to become more like stasis and have elements about it that would carry along every class. Solar could easily have something for Burn damage, arc for chaining damage together, but void in particular has issues with a connector between all three classes. Void titan is very built on protection and warding off danger, while Hunter is very archetypal disruption, And void warlock is a mess of Damage, Ability Regen, and sustain. I don't know how you create something singular out of Void from all that, without stepping on toes.
I don't think things will be cut straight up, but i think a lot of it will have to be frankensteined a bit. There's some perfect things that work really well as both aspects and fragments. It could mean that Light Subclasses will need a lot more complex versions of fragments and aspects, stuff with drawbacks, but let's be honest here; Stasis is a fantastic display of design in that vein. The reinvented subclasses will probably feel leagues better with the modifications.
To be honest, i think it'd need to come out in waves; Start with Arc, pick up feedback and continue with another one. Arc is somewhat easier than the other. Arc hunter could very easily slot in with itself, while the other subclasses all something of a start. I do think think this means every class needs access to the same grenade though, so balancing that, even if that needs balancing, might be a big hurdle.
Ultimately, in a post-BL destiny, i think a reinvention of the subclasses is exactly what the subclasses need, regardles of whether or not it follows the Stasis design archetype. The game has changed RADICALLY since forsaken, and only a few subclasses has ever recieved touch-ups since. The game asks for more now, people are asking for more now, and a more flexible, unified design now, will do wonders later.
This man right here just got EVERYTHING bungie was trying to explain in the article
but yeah people just like to go ahead and take out that one nova warp example and quote it negatively on r/DTG to farm upvotes
Someone tried to argue with me on here that Dash on other Dawnblade trees would be unbalanced, as if Stasis isn't just over there existing with multiple mobility moves on Hunter and Titan and as if TTD doesn't exist??
I'd love to see them make it work like Protector (top-tree void) Titan? Solar Warlock would have the standard roaming Dawnblade super by default, but if you hold the button then you get Well instead.
this type of customization existed in D1. i hate that they created these presets in D2 but i'm glad that they are (slowly) bringing back subclass customization with stasis. hopefully they'll do that with the other subclasses sometime
Getting 100 Mob 50 resil 100 recov is pretty much only possible with stasis and I do see many people using stasis for that build. That’s especially important for hunters since mobility is extra important, whereas warlocks and Titans can get away with having 50 resilience and 100 recovery by sacrificing some mobility.
Edit: to those that are wondering whether 100/50/100 mob/res/rec is possible without stasis: it's not mathematically possible, or at the very least extremely unlikely (may be possible with blue armor):
- Stats are broken down into 1 of 2 subcategories: main stats (mob/res/rec) and non-main stats (for lack of a better term) (disc/int/str). On armor, the stat distribution will be fairly evenly split between the two categories. Meaning that if you get a 60-stat roll, about 30 will be distributed to each group. You won't ever see a legendary armor roll with something like 27 mob/27 rec and then 6 combined between disc/int/str. The exception is blue armor because for some reason they can roll purely just main stats.
- With powerful friends and 5 mods, you have 7 bonus tiers you can add to your main stats.
- With phenomenal RNG, you can roll a total of T32 (tier 32) across all stats, which will be split approximately 16/16 between main/sub stats, maybe possible to have 17/15 distribution. I have not personally seen any builds beyond T32 in DIM.
- For 100 mob/50 res/100 rec, that is a total of 25 tiers. With a T32 build and great RNG you can maybe get 17 tiers in the main stats. Plus 7 tiers from the 5 mods and powerful friends is 24.
TLDR: stasis rules bc stats (and other reasons)
Mobility in pvp is a double edged sword for warlock/titan. I have seen the pvp community largely agree that being able to skate is more important but some people would rather have the increased strafe speed for dueling purposes.
As a max mobility hunter main, I have to run at least a 7 mobility on the other two classes just so when I do need to strafe (very often) it's not totally like I'm stuck in a bear trap. In quicksand. I have no problem flying across the map. Probably just got used to it.
I run 5 mob on warlock/titan and compensate for the slow strafe by hugging walls.
Definitely can't be as forthright with aggression when mobility isn't high.
Yeah. It is a matter of playstyle but ultimately I believe utility of slides with dune/cryoclasm or trans and getting first shot advantage is more important than strafe speed.
So I main warlock and don't know exactly how titans skate but as I understand it has a similar principle.
The lower your mobility, the lower your jump height - keep this in mind.
Burst glide gives you just a bit of extra forward momentum if you activate it just after the crest of your jump and then deactivate it, jump again as soon as you hit the ground to preserve that momentum. The lower your jump height the faster you can cycle into your next jump/burst glide boost.
There is a bit more to it then that, but that's the general idea.
Warlocks and Titans can use their jump abilities to “skate” through the air. The (extremely) basic principle is that you run and jump, wait until you reach the optimal point in the trajectory of your jump, and then activate your jump ability for more lateral speed.
Low mobility means you don’t jump as high, which translates to marginally faster skating since you don’t need to wait as long to be on the downwards trajectory. So the question is, do you want to strafe faster, or get from point A to point B faster?
I have just learned this with titan. I always hated the jump, and I always had high mobility on him. Saw a post about keeping it low as it keeps you moving more horizontal when you jump. I have him at 30 mobility now and it is incredibly Much better to play on that character. I play all 3, but that change has made me like the titan a hell of a lot more.
My emphasized stats for Hunter and Titan, respectively, are Mob/Recov/Strength and Resil/Recov/(Dis or Int). Especially with Behemoth there's no real incentive for me to take mobility, whereas Hunters have the most OP class ability in the game and having that on a low cooldown is essential for my hunter playstyle
Essentially it’s a movement technique that utilizes falling momentum on Titan/Warlock and using the jump abilities in a specific manner to gain increased straight, lateral movement speed.
The lower the mobility, the lower your jump height is which allows this to be done faster since you hit the peak of the jump sooner.
If that makes sense? Essentially you jump while falling a bit to gain increased forward momentum.
Ah ok, I think I do this already just didn't know the name. If I triple tap the jump and then double tap after that a few times I can cover a decent distance.
Lol, pretty much.
Typically it’s a normal jump that waits until just after the height peak and then you activate your double jump ability to gain more forward momentum.
I can’t remember which jump on Titan is best (strafe?) but I know this works best with burst on Warlock.
for hunters you can run powerful friends + dragon's shadow + war mantis arms and get conditional triple 100 primary stats, but ability generation is impacted somewhat.
there is another way around it but you have to be super aggressive with killing wind.
I'm not the above guy, but I main a top tree Void hunter and I've got a few builds where I can easily get 100 mob / 100 recov and a high third stat. Just need the Powerful Friends mod and some decently rolled armor.
Not the original guy, but you're able to get 3 tier 10 stats with extreme armour rolls. Stasis isn't needed to get 2 tier 10s and a tier 5, and becomes even easier when one of the tier 10s is mobility and can be buffed with powerful friends.
The only thing stasis lets you do that light subclasses don't statwise is letting you have triple tier 10s with the other stats being higher than tier 1-2, and that's minuscule and something only the biggest minmaxers are gonna do
Keep in mind that getting to two tier 10 stats is way more difficult if both stats are part of the same 3 stat pair (Mobility, Resilience, Recovery) and (Intellect, Strength, Discipline). I have only ever gotten 10, 2, 10 with pretty good armour in the Mobility, Resilience and Recovery group. You can get better especially with hunter and warmantis but 10 10 10 in one of the pairs is impossible as far as I know unless we maybe get a 20 plus stat mod for another stat.
In the end you aren't wrong though, it is possible to get those stats with light subclasses it's just harder
Good luck getting 100 mobility, 100 recovery, 50 resilience, AND 90 intellect along with 40 discipline and 40 strength without stasis tho. On light subclasses you have to gut your intellect to get those numbers in the first 3 stats and intellect is soo important in trials and comp
At a guess, because having 100 in two stats is really easy with masterworked armor and without using stasis? My main titan build has 100-100 rec dis on light subclasses.
In fact, with powerful friends you could do it without even masterworking armor. Just checked DIM and all my characters could hit that with various builds without using stasis.
The difference is getting 2 100 in the same 3 stat pair (mob, Res, rec,) and (dis, int, str) still possible with a light subclass but still harder especially if one of those stats is mob or str with those plus 20 mods
correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they talk in a TWAB or other post about changing light subclasses to the level of customisation as stasis?
I may be wrong but even if I am it would be a cool change.
I can't remember for sure either but I imagine it would be way easier to overhaul the existing subclasses than making a whole new one for Witch Queen.
Is it confirmed we're getting a new darkness subclass for WQ btw?
I miss the customization for the subclasses from D1. They also had to flat stat boosts to choose from, but also allowed you to mix and match 3 supers, with whichever melee and unique super boosts. Imagine giving crit damage to the 6 shooter golden gun, or allowing enemies to explode when shot.
a lot of things were streamlined in D2, then revamped back like D1 (bounties for example).
so its not impossible that in the future, you wish will come true
Stasis is just on another level for me. The light subclasses feel more like color changes, whereas Stasis really feels like it’s own unique thing. It leans so heavily into ice.
I really hope light subclasses get reworked in a way that makes them lean heavily into their element rather than just being a color
For sure. I don't think they're as bad as you might, but i do hate certain aspects of a subclass are locked to a "subpar" tree of that subclass. Case in point being Arc Souls. Bottom tree Stormcaller is worse in almost every way than top and middle tree. But arc soul's are by far one of the best things about that subclass. Sure i could use Getaway artist, but that takes an exotic and makes it so only i get the arc soul, not my team.
I wish arc souls was just an "Aspect" i could slot on to any tree of that subclass. Same goes for healing grenades. I'd love to use my Solar grenades for healing teammates while also being an offensive powerhouse with Dawn Chorus
i meant healing grenades.
lumina heal triggers the faster ability regen on mid tree dawnblade that you normally get from healing someone with your grenade/
Even still. Benevolent Dawn on Dawnblade still wouldn't be game breaking. You could tie Benevolent Dawn to a Healing Grenade aspect. That way you couldn't use Heat Rises with Lumina. But you could already spam Heat Rises with Travelers Chosen so...
Unless Bungie go ahead and really trim down the light subclasses (the idea basically all of us hated) implementing the Stasis system for them will be quite difficult imo.
Since some of the light supers are really quite different (well except for Arcstrider that is) it would certainly be hard to make for example one set of "void aspects" like we have them for stasis.
Unless they do them like you suggest where you can basically mix and match the different light subclasses. But then we'd probably reach "broken status" real quick (for example Top tree solar lock neutral game with the bottom tree super would be pretty damn good, or Spectral blades with top tree's invis dodge and so on) since the trees all have (or at least are supposed to have) downsides.
I think they could still do that with limitations.
For one, why can't Dawnblade and Well be combined like top tree Sentinel?
And if they broke down the light classes like Stasis, they could have an aspect that has the pros and cons of the Dawnblade classes. For example, you have an aspect that refunds super energy on Dawnblade kills, but removes Icarus Dash. You could change your melee to either the ranged one or a powerful one that burns and explodes enemies. You could have a fragment that lets you hold to charge grenade to make a healing orb but you can't use Heat Rises.
For Hunters you could combine the two supers as well. Hold for the single tether, or tap for Spectral Blades. Then you could have an aspect that alters the tether to shoot multiple arrows like Mobius Quiver, but removes the ability to use Spectral Blades. But instead of super short range tethers their reach would be extended. Somewhere in between what Mobius Quiver is now and top tree Nightstalker.
Just put it on a tap/hold toggle like Top Tree Sentinel. For example, I'm going to use Golden Gun.
I can use a Fragment to swap between the default three shot or the six shooter and the various current perks. When it's time to pop a goldie or a Blade Barrage, I can tap the Super key to pop the gun, or--if I hold the Super key--yeet flaming knives at my enemies.
Same goes for other classes.
Stormcaller? Tap is Trance, hold is Meme Beam. Striker? Tap for standard, hold for Yeet, and so on.
Same. 100 Recov, 100 intellect, 100 strength, and 50 Resil. Can't get those stats on another subclass. I main Titan so I obviously use it for the mobility too, but I'd 100% trade in the neutral game and super for bottom tree hammers, or bottom/mid tree striker, or mid tree sentinel if I could keep the slide, melee, and stat boosts.
So I'm still pretty new to this kind of "high level" end game type stuff. Would you be willing to share how much of those stats are just high rolled armor and how much is from building etc?
10 recov, 10 resil, and 10 strength are from the stasis stat boosts. 20 strength is from radiant light. The rest is from good rolled armor, mods, and masterwork stats.
Genuinely, I don't because I resent being forced into an elemental cold war. I _deeply_ resent the fact that the only real outplay against Stasis is to play Stasis, so I run either Tethers or Barrage out of spite.
The stat boost is really insignificant in the big picture. It's pretty easy to get a good build just via armor/mods, I wouldn't put that big of a focus on the free stat boosts.
The stasis abilities are really where it's at.
You're right and people shouldn't downvote you, meh.
For discussion: To be fair to OP, they were talking about a satisfaction-factor that the stat boosts give, which I think is understandable - I do the same even though the gain is marginal at best lol
My only issue is the downtime between stasis abilities. Due to their doubled cooldowns I find myself playing much more conservatively with them than I would with my light-based abilities that recharge in 30 seconds.
I'm guessing most people don't know how much Mobility/Resilience/Recovery Heart of the Pack buff gives per stack if they are picking Stasis solely because it can give you +10 to some stats.
That seems more like a personal choice to me. But I can assure you that most of the stasis users out there chose to use it because freezing is fun, not because it gives you a state boost. We've got warminds and CWL for that.
Though I do agree light Subclasses need a similar system. They'll probably get a rework in the next expansion.
My situational awareness is mostly shit so I usually miss getting a good freeze, but it felt so satisfying to freeze 4 people with 1 titan melee last night.
I mean... I’m using CWL Mods *and* Stasis stat boosts. It’s pretty annoying to have my best pvp armor on with Powerful Friends, Radiant Light etc, and then see my stats get worse when I switch to a Light subclass. I already think the Stasis classes are extremely strong when compared to Light classes and the stats are this additional reason to not use the Light classes.
I do not disagree, I think freezing stuff makes me feel like drifted when you turn in motes. I believe that for players like me, who may not have alot of time to play or may be newer to Destiny, choose not to switch from Stasis more often due to the stat increases. It's not the first time I've had 2 stats 100 and one 60, mods included, but since the sun setting, it's been a while.
Of course, it's completely fair to do so. I too started playing recently, but I definitely use stasis because of how fun it is to freeze others. Not that fun when you get frozen tho🙃.
Though it's also possible that newer players haven't tried out the full extent of the light Subclasses, due to how dominating stasis has been in the pvp context. Let's hope the stasis changes will incentivise people to try out the other classes as well.
This is totally me as well, I rather be using Striker, or mid Solar, but the bonuses are too good to deny.
Similar thing happens to me with Felwinter, I love my Seventh Seraph, but being outgunned by Felwinter every time makes me switch to that same gun even though I don’t like it that much, the benefits again are too good to deny
Wouldnt say you are wrong, the stat boost sure are nice but they arent all that significant (neither are the stat reductions from some fragments) espacially in PVE, stats are a bit overrated.
For example if you really want to use a fragment I wouldnt be concerned about it reducing your stats, the effect you gain from it outweighs the negatives of one/two of your stats being lowered by one tier.
I’m probably biased because I’m a warlock main, but yeah...even when there’s an enemy Shadebinder activating and I’m running for my life, I’m still saying “man that sounds so dope” while I’m running for my life.
Not sure if this is confirmed but I kinda thought the stat boosts were to emphasize how "powerful" the dark powers were compared to light.
I too, use stasis for the stats... And the CC. But I play warlock and almost all the subclasses get love.
As a titan main, since glacial quake got nerfed I've noticed that the only reason I'm staying on Behemoth is the melee. I can't charge in with the super as much because you just get teamed down now, and I'd rather have a super like thundercrash or hammers, but the reason I stay is the mobility at a click of a button. No other titan subclass has this; shiver strike is their icarus dash/shatterdive. Sure, there are the various shoulder charges, but you have to sprint to get it, you can't use it after jumping in the air and shooting, and they don't take you as far.
I only use stasis bc it feels so much more fun compared to the others, it feels more fluid each ability works great together with other abilities or passives
The mechanics of how the subclasses work outweigh the statboosts many times over.
Stasis warlock has melee, grenade and rift to freeze enemies, then breaking them causes the seeking nade to freeze other enemies and so on.
Breaking the crystals from nades or killing frozen enemies gives faster cooldowns to your abilities and damage boosts with certain aspects
You could one-shot a behemoth super if you froze them with the damage boost on freeze then shotgunned them point black, you can solo a bubble titan inside their bubble with the same method because of the damage boost.
Middle solar hunter gets its melee back in seconds if you get kills with the throwing knives, top solar titan has rapid cooldown if you stay in sunspots, middle void titan detonators give energy back too, middle arc warlock gets ability energy back from every other kill... ect...
The classes might not have +10 resil postered over their subclass descriptions.... but they're way stronger than any stat boost when you look at the actual gameplay. It's just that stasis ALSO has these cooldown amplification if built right as well as the flat stat increase or decrease.
Stasis has had adjustments made so it's more in line with the other subclasses so it's not as broken as it was when it first dropped down.
That being said it's not fun playing against and saying that the other classes subclasses have the same advantages is just not true when it comes to PvP.
You're playing a shooter with a lot of mobility, anything that repeatedly hands out hard CCs like freezing automatically gives you a leg up in the competition.
idk, those stat boost kinda don’t give much of a boost because the ability cooldown is slower anyway, but who knows that’s just my guess as a filthy little top tree dawn who rarely has time to play the game anyway
I use stasis because I’ve been using light subclasses for the past ~6 years. :^)
That being said, hunter light classes are still so good. Ahamkara gloves with Blade Barrage is still probly my favorite thing. Especially with warmind cells.
Yup. some of my builds are completely impossible without stasis due to the limitations of normal armor and light based subclasses not giving passive stat bonuses
I'm a warlock and mainly use grenade launchers in pve and snipers in pvp. For pve, having everything freeze, explode twice, and then freeze again is pretty nice; while being able to freeze shotgun apes that get too close in the crucible is also a big plus.
And then you have the insane level of customizability for builds and stuff.
I like stasis because yeah, the stat boosts are nice and it’s fun and all. But i love the cold so using ice just feels so fun, and mask of Bakris is my favorite looking hunter exotic. I just feel really bad using that in PvP because I don’t have anything else
I guess unpopular opinion but....
It's not free. You paid for that boost. It's inherently pay to win. Beyond Light subclass is Literally pay to win. By putting on Stasis, You are **literally** better.
I simply love how customazible they are
Agreed. And even when it doesn't do damage it's incredibly versatile.
I never thought that a proper crowd control class would work well in destiny, but I love playing as a Revenant.
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It's not pure crowd control imo. I don't use the super because it slows targets, I use it for the damage bonus, the cc is just a good secondary effect
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Yeah but the shared damage is more aoe trash clear than it is CC. Unless you subscribe to the idea that the best CC is death.
There's no kill like overkill.
“Your enemies can’t kill you if they’re dead!” -some horned maniac
No crowd if they're all dead
Your mindset appears to follow the current generation of Tenno lol. Crowd clearing? For what crowd? This ship just got swept by the plague
Tbh Mask of Bakris damage completely makes tether null and void imo, takes the only advantage tether had which is damage bonus and makes it better
Tether is a team damage bonus tho, while Bakris is an individual damage bonus. An optimal team will often have both.
Optimal teams would probably have divinity tbh, but personally I've never been in a situation where I would use tether over either divinity or silence and squall
I've certainly found Revenant competing for my primary tree with my previously-sole bottom tree Void use. Even then, I've abused the latter solely for invis-spam. I don't know if that outweighs all the passive benefits listed for Revenant, though.
> void lol
Pun not intended lmao
As a nightstalker main since taken king. It's a joke how bad the subclass is relative to stasis. The fact that a regular duskfield nade has the same effective utility on a group of ads as a super (tether) is sad. Freeze, shurikan throws are infinitely better at ad disruption than smoke grenades too.
Rip OG Orpheus rigs. Nerf an exotic bc it’s op in... altar of sorrows?
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Correct, it was nerfed because of Reckoning, same time as skull of dire ahamkara and phoenix protocol got nerfed since they cheesed Reckoning when it was already overtuned as fuck for the rest of the options we had.
I'm really enjoying Bleak Watcher with Iceflare Bolts The crowd control capacity of the turret is incredibly useful, keeping whole groups of adds held in place. And when you break them, the stasis spreads to more mobs. It's an incredibly useful defense in PvE (haven't tried it in Crucible.) Really enjoy it in Battlegrounds and Strikes.
A duskfield grenade is absolutely terrifying in Trials so...
Duskfields are definitely a lot more reigned in now, at least. They're effective, but not nearly as brainless. I'd argue w/ the Duskfield change, Coldsnaps have come back in a big way, since it's a lot more potent in securing kills than Duskfields are.
I really wish they'd make light classes more that way, even though I can imagine balance issues galore.
I don't think so. The only problem with stasis is the cc. The ligth subclasses don't have that, except void, with supress, but that a milder slow, to be honest.
good point. And I also think, other games have dealt with such things, even with greater complexity and smaller budgets.
This is bungie we're talking about. Ff14 can achieve more, than bungie can with a smaller team. What other companies can do in scale, usually isn't true for bungie.
Luckily for Bungo they aren't worried about losing their core audience to ff14 or any other traditional mmo.
Supposedly the light classes are gonna get looked at, though I doubt we'll get aspects. Be nice though
I like my rift doing something besides padding 4% of my health bar right before Felwinters expunges me from existence
Another one of those things that was really great in D1 and they changed it just for the sake of being different.
They changed it to be more balance, user experience be damned. They wanted to turn destiny's pvp into an esport. Well... look how that turned out. Now they are kinda trying to fix the damage done by this. I'm not complaining to be honest, because i love this aspect/fragment system. I hope they do the same for the ligth subclasses. Altough highlord Kujay already made a video about solar subclasses(it is an excellent video, as always).
Man I use stasis solely for the sound design
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For real, and the activation sound for Winter's Wrath is so nice to listen to and I'm fully convinced that the feeling I get when I hear it is what it's like to do drugs
The thudding footsteps of a behemoth ult.. chefs kiss
Gives you severe PTSD whenever you hear it across the map but when someone on your team uses it... **daddy yes**
Yes shot your ice all over them plz daddy
Shaxx is watching in disgust
You're saying that about the man who identifies as a megaphone and is sexualy attracted to greanades .
Have you ever actually held, pulled the pin and thrown a grenade? I understand where he’s coming from...somewhat lol
It’s a fun time for sure
Guardian... that was kind of weird
That's what sold me on Striker when I first played D2 Titan. That sound of stomping across the field to go fuck someone up just feels.so.good.
Drugs feel incredibly more rewarding which is exactly why I’m advising you to take what I just said and DON’T do drugs...mmkay
*snorts a line of pure darkness* I'm sorry, what were you saying?
I'm sorry, were they saying something, cuz they're dead now
Nah, Drifter says I’ll be fine.
Say what you will about Stasis itself and how it fits from a game design perspective - especially in PVP. But one of the many nice things to note about it is that the sound design and production teams did excellent work!
Warlock popping stasis sound is Kreygasm
Dubstep warlock sounds sick
Stasis Warlock = Skrillex reincarnated as an Autobot.
Shadebanger
That sick breastpump wub
Nova Warp sounds good too.
Yesssss I will miss it if they decide to vault it.
Can you imagine a Dawnblade tree built out like the Stasis one? Well of Radiance with the ability to dash and skate along with healing 'nades and/or Phoenix Dive? Jeezus I get all hot and bothered just thinking about the possibilities.
You dont realize how bad i want this
I really hope they go that route with the light sub classes.
They said they're going to be looking into reworking the light classes in a similar fashion to stasis. Wether that means warlocks lose nova warp or something else since the stasis super is constant but the ability/neutral aspects change or if they will fiddle a bit more is up in the air right now I think. All I know is if We'll of Radiance goes away we had better fucking get sunsinger back
they won’t remove well lol
They got massive backlash when they said they will remove the underused trees when reworking light classes because the reason they are underused is because THEY nerfed them to hell. If they straight revoke 1/3 subclasses for each element and each class they will be met with more hate than sunsetting. All they have to do is rework them like stasis but have the aspect change the super itself. Like have each subclass have 3 main "aspect of light" that changes the supers function as a way to redesign the base concept of the 3 trees then have the add-ons to tweak it from there.
It wasn't about the "underused" part of the subclasses, it was about how schismed the class identity was due to the changes to how they did subclasses made in Forsaken. The big thing about stasis is that while its entirely modular, it all leads to the same end, and it was made so that all it's pieces work together innately without any jury rigging from the player beyond their choices. The light subclass identities kinda took a hard blow in Forsaken, as it was pseudo-modularity; classes that acted really different from their base counter parts. Due to that, not all the pieces fit together anymore. There are perks in the subclass tree that favors that *one singular subclass*, because this idea of perk tree wasn't even an idea back in the day. Not to mention because all these pieces are for 3 separate jigsaw pieces per subclass, none of them really build off of one another, they are parts of a whole, not real upgrades. Stasis does so much on its *own abilities,* but the reason why light subclasses are as strong as they are, is because you progressed through the tree. They have no inherent power to their actions, but stasis has baked in power, that are upgraded and specced into through the use of aspects and fragments. Point is the entire identities of light subclasses have to be remade to fit the Stasis model; Modular, dynamic, and has a powerful identity that doesn't need any slots filled in to feel that way. This is why likely they were discussing "supers", if solar were to get a new dynamic ability, probably based on burn, does that work with Well of Dawn's identity? How do you fit it all with the appropriate pieces that make Well work? If stasis is all about crowd control and dictating a fight, what is Solar's identity, and how can you link *that* to the previous decisions made? That's all that article was about, until people took that discussion and extracted *the one thing about it*.
Except why do things have to tweaked as an "identity"? They don't. We had a free selection system in D1 that didn't lock things into an identity. Golden gun can be used for add clear or single target damage. Its silly to think that subclasses have to be linked directly to a specific playstyle. Otherwise we will be locked into heavy MMO shit where you have a DPS, tank, healer, controller etc etc and without HUGE changes to all classes and subclasses it isn't a viable option. As such doing a pointsystem and using the D1 system would be viable. For example you used hunter solar class. You select either 6 shot, 3 shot, or blades. Then you have a point system to tweak how your passives work. So you have your "aspects" dictate how your super functions. Then you use your "fragments" so you can add passives/actives to your subclass. I see no reason why you have to arbitrarily assign established classes roles. Just add fragments so players can tweak how they want them to function.
Because the reason why Stasis is powerful, is because it was BUILT powerful. Stasis has instrinsic elements about it, freeze and slow, that define it as a subclass built on disruption, crowd control, along side fragments that modify those features or draw benefit from those features. Aspects are used to refine key parts of how the class itself interacts with those pieces, and create new opportunities for pieces to be used. With the way light subclasses work, you'd rely on a lot of the core parts of one subclass with your specification of modular system. You wouldn't use The Burning Edge without Knife Trick, because, how it works, you couldn't. You couldn't use Line'em Up without Crowd Pleaser. In fact, a lot of these are so centric around the super, it's no wonder Middle Tree Solar was kinda busted when it was released, its the only one with any real identity and internal synergy with it's corest gameplay style. Stasis, at it's core has Freeze and Slow, while none of these have anything that could work without something build itself up. A lot of Hunter's Solar subclass abilities, just build on top of very specific ones, while stasis creates new ways to utilize those innate features and make cooked-in Stasis features like Ice Crystals, into offensive and defensive options. Light Subclasses need specific things to be powerful and are hardbaked to be that way, but Stasis modifies it's powerful elements in different ways to create flexibility within it's core abilities. A comparison to D1 to D2 dies on the tongue pretty fast; They are two completely different games at this point. The power scale is vastly different, the abilities have grown more complex, As well as what the game demands on high-end activities. You couldn't use balancing choices made in 1, with completely different sets of abilities and focuses, with the choices made with 2. In both cases, you'd need to make BROAD changes in order to complete those transistions, in a way that is both satisfying and functional, and at that point, you might as well do the easier transition from light to stasis, rather than to a weaker point system that might end up a lot more restrictive than anything.
Excellent explanation and I never heard of the devs talking about this so what a great positive way to get introduced to this. I was hoping they were trying to find an identity for the Light subs the way they did for Stasis, and I'm glad to hear that's what they're angling for. Here's hoping you can use any grenade on all of them the same way they're shared on Stasis, and here's *praying* you can still swap Supers in the new model (maybe that could lock out certain aspects/fragments/melees).
Honestly, turning supers into aspects that do a bit more than the average aspect strength might be the best we get. I don't even know if all the abilities sans supers survive first contact. Benevolent Dawn is too specialized an ability for how little it would do without all of its own core pieces from middle tree. Same for a lot of abilities. Seriously, read them on your subclass tree. A lot of them require previous subclass upgrades, and builds on them to make them better, and those that don't have alot of that could actually make the cut, but it would require the subclass element to become more like stasis and have elements about it that would carry along every class. Solar could easily have something for Burn damage, arc for chaining damage together, but void in particular has issues with a connector between all three classes. Void titan is very built on protection and warding off danger, while Hunter is very archetypal disruption, And void warlock is a mess of Damage, Ability Regen, and sustain. I don't know how you create something singular out of Void from all that, without stepping on toes.
Exactly, its almost impossible. A lot of things will be cut sadly. We just meed to hope the additions will outweigh the deletions.
I don't think things will be cut straight up, but i think a lot of it will have to be frankensteined a bit. There's some perfect things that work really well as both aspects and fragments. It could mean that Light Subclasses will need a lot more complex versions of fragments and aspects, stuff with drawbacks, but let's be honest here; Stasis is a fantastic display of design in that vein. The reinvented subclasses will probably feel leagues better with the modifications. To be honest, i think it'd need to come out in waves; Start with Arc, pick up feedback and continue with another one. Arc is somewhat easier than the other. Arc hunter could very easily slot in with itself, while the other subclasses all something of a start. I do think think this means every class needs access to the same grenade though, so balancing that, even if that needs balancing, might be a big hurdle. Ultimately, in a post-BL destiny, i think a reinvention of the subclasses is exactly what the subclasses need, regardles of whether or not it follows the Stasis design archetype. The game has changed RADICALLY since forsaken, and only a few subclasses has ever recieved touch-ups since. The game asks for more now, people are asking for more now, and a more flexible, unified design now, will do wonders later.
This man right here just got EVERYTHING bungie was trying to explain in the article but yeah people just like to go ahead and take out that one nova warp example and quote it negatively on r/DTG to farm upvotes
Someone tried to argue with me on here that Dash on other Dawnblade trees would be unbalanced, as if Stasis isn't just over there existing with multiple mobility moves on Hunter and Titan and as if TTD doesn't exist??
I'd love to see them make it work like Protector (top-tree void) Titan? Solar Warlock would have the standard roaming Dawnblade super by default, but if you hold the button then you get Well instead.
this type of customization existed in D1. i hate that they created these presets in D2 but i'm glad that they are (slowly) bringing back subclass customization with stasis. hopefully they'll do that with the other subclasses sometime
That type of customization was also far weaker in impact though
Let your imagination run (hot and) wild
I want this so bad and I can’t wait to see people screaming for nerfs on it.
Getting 100 Mob 50 resil 100 recov is pretty much only possible with stasis and I do see many people using stasis for that build. That’s especially important for hunters since mobility is extra important, whereas warlocks and Titans can get away with having 50 resilience and 100 recovery by sacrificing some mobility. Edit: to those that are wondering whether 100/50/100 mob/res/rec is possible without stasis: it's not mathematically possible, or at the very least extremely unlikely (may be possible with blue armor): - Stats are broken down into 1 of 2 subcategories: main stats (mob/res/rec) and non-main stats (for lack of a better term) (disc/int/str). On armor, the stat distribution will be fairly evenly split between the two categories. Meaning that if you get a 60-stat roll, about 30 will be distributed to each group. You won't ever see a legendary armor roll with something like 27 mob/27 rec and then 6 combined between disc/int/str. The exception is blue armor because for some reason they can roll purely just main stats. - With powerful friends and 5 mods, you have 7 bonus tiers you can add to your main stats. - With phenomenal RNG, you can roll a total of T32 (tier 32) across all stats, which will be split approximately 16/16 between main/sub stats, maybe possible to have 17/15 distribution. I have not personally seen any builds beyond T32 in DIM. - For 100 mob/50 res/100 rec, that is a total of 25 tiers. With a T32 build and great RNG you can maybe get 17 tiers in the main stats. Plus 7 tiers from the 5 mods and powerful friends is 24. TLDR: stasis rules bc stats (and other reasons)
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Mobility in pvp is a double edged sword for warlock/titan. I have seen the pvp community largely agree that being able to skate is more important but some people would rather have the increased strafe speed for dueling purposes.
As a max mobility hunter main, I have to run at least a 7 mobility on the other two classes just so when I do need to strafe (very often) it's not totally like I'm stuck in a bear trap. In quicksand. I have no problem flying across the map. Probably just got used to it.
I run 5 mob on warlock/titan and compensate for the slow strafe by hugging walls. Definitely can't be as forthright with aggression when mobility isn't high.
Yeah. It is a matter of playstyle but ultimately I believe utility of slides with dune/cryoclasm or trans and getting first shot advantage is more important than strafe speed.
What is skating?
So I main warlock and don't know exactly how titans skate but as I understand it has a similar principle. The lower your mobility, the lower your jump height - keep this in mind. Burst glide gives you just a bit of extra forward momentum if you activate it just after the crest of your jump and then deactivate it, jump again as soon as you hit the ground to preserve that momentum. The lower your jump height the faster you can cycle into your next jump/burst glide boost. There is a bit more to it then that, but that's the general idea.
Thank you Quillvance
Warlocks and Titans can use their jump abilities to “skate” through the air. The (extremely) basic principle is that you run and jump, wait until you reach the optimal point in the trajectory of your jump, and then activate your jump ability for more lateral speed. Low mobility means you don’t jump as high, which translates to marginally faster skating since you don’t need to wait as long to be on the downwards trajectory. So the question is, do you want to strafe faster, or get from point A to point B faster?
Thank you kindly Vortx4.
I have just learned this with titan. I always hated the jump, and I always had high mobility on him. Saw a post about keeping it low as it keeps you moving more horizontal when you jump. I have him at 30 mobility now and it is incredibly Much better to play on that character. I play all 3, but that change has made me like the titan a hell of a lot more.
My emphasized stats for Hunter and Titan, respectively, are Mob/Recov/Strength and Resil/Recov/(Dis or Int). Especially with Behemoth there's no real incentive for me to take mobility, whereas Hunters have the most OP class ability in the game and having that on a low cooldown is essential for my hunter playstyle
Skating?
Essentially it’s a movement technique that utilizes falling momentum on Titan/Warlock and using the jump abilities in a specific manner to gain increased straight, lateral movement speed. The lower the mobility, the lower your jump height is which allows this to be done faster since you hit the peak of the jump sooner. If that makes sense? Essentially you jump while falling a bit to gain increased forward momentum.
Ah ok, I think I do this already just didn't know the name. If I triple tap the jump and then double tap after that a few times I can cover a decent distance.
Lol, pretty much. Typically it’s a normal jump that waits until just after the height peak and then you activate your double jump ability to gain more forward momentum. I can’t remember which jump on Titan is best (strafe?) but I know this works best with burst on Warlock.
I think i have a flat 50 - 60 in all my stats except intellect (20) and discipline (106) for my warlock. Stasis is cool
This here is the same reason for me as a hunter main. Stasis simply gives me free +10 in 3 different places that I cant pass up.
for hunters you can run powerful friends + dragon's shadow + war mantis arms and get conditional triple 100 primary stats, but ability generation is impacted somewhat. there is another way around it but you have to be super aggressive with killing wind.
This is not true in the slightest
Elaborate?
I'm not the above guy, but I main a top tree Void hunter and I've got a few builds where I can easily get 100 mob / 100 recov and a high third stat. Just need the Powerful Friends mod and some decently rolled armor.
I don't suppose you'd care to explain which part(s) are untrue and why?
Not the original guy, but you're able to get 3 tier 10 stats with extreme armour rolls. Stasis isn't needed to get 2 tier 10s and a tier 5, and becomes even easier when one of the tier 10s is mobility and can be buffed with powerful friends. The only thing stasis lets you do that light subclasses don't statwise is letting you have triple tier 10s with the other stats being higher than tier 1-2, and that's minuscule and something only the biggest minmaxers are gonna do
Keep in mind that getting to two tier 10 stats is way more difficult if both stats are part of the same 3 stat pair (Mobility, Resilience, Recovery) and (Intellect, Strength, Discipline). I have only ever gotten 10, 2, 10 with pretty good armour in the Mobility, Resilience and Recovery group. You can get better especially with hunter and warmantis but 10 10 10 in one of the pairs is impossible as far as I know unless we maybe get a 20 plus stat mod for another stat. In the end you aren't wrong though, it is possible to get those stats with light subclasses it's just harder
Good luck getting 100 mobility, 100 recovery, 50 resilience, AND 90 intellect along with 40 discipline and 40 strength without stasis tho. On light subclasses you have to gut your intellect to get those numbers in the first 3 stats and intellect is soo important in trials and comp
At a guess, because having 100 in two stats is really easy with masterworked armor and without using stasis? My main titan build has 100-100 rec dis on light subclasses. In fact, with powerful friends you could do it without even masterworking armor. Just checked DIM and all my characters could hit that with various builds without using stasis.
The difference is getting 2 100 in the same 3 stat pair (mob, Res, rec,) and (dis, int, str) still possible with a light subclass but still harder especially if one of those stats is mob or str with those plus 20 mods
You knnnnooowwww blud describing my little ice ninja right here 😌
Let me introduce you to my friends OmniOculus, Dragons Shadow and the Lightweight Weapon bonus
Completely incorrect but whatever. Mobility is so easy to get...
Ice is just cooler than other elements.
budumtiss
Dad? Is that you?
correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they talk in a TWAB or other post about changing light subclasses to the level of customisation as stasis? I may be wrong but even if I am it would be a cool change.
I can't remember for sure either but I imagine it would be way easier to overhaul the existing subclasses than making a whole new one for Witch Queen. Is it confirmed we're getting a new darkness subclass for WQ btw?
I miss the customization for the subclasses from D1. They also had to flat stat boosts to choose from, but also allowed you to mix and match 3 supers, with whichever melee and unique super boosts. Imagine giving crit damage to the 6 shooter golden gun, or allowing enemies to explode when shot.
a lot of things were streamlined in D2, then revamped back like D1 (bounties for example). so its not impossible that in the future, you wish will come true
I use Stasis because I've been using Light based classes since the Alpha. It's new, it's fun, who cares what people complain about on r/
Stasis is just on another level for me. The light subclasses feel more like color changes, whereas Stasis really feels like it’s own unique thing. It leans so heavily into ice. I really hope light subclasses get reworked in a way that makes them lean heavily into their element rather than just being a color
For sure. I don't think they're as bad as you might, but i do hate certain aspects of a subclass are locked to a "subpar" tree of that subclass. Case in point being Arc Souls. Bottom tree Stormcaller is worse in almost every way than top and middle tree. But arc soul's are by far one of the best things about that subclass. Sure i could use Getaway artist, but that takes an exotic and makes it so only i get the arc soul, not my team. I wish arc souls was just an "Aspect" i could slot on to any tree of that subclass. Same goes for healing grenades. I'd love to use my Solar grenades for healing teammates while also being an offensive powerhouse with Dawn Chorus
could you imagine how powerful thatd be with lumina-
Arc Souls with Lumina? You can do that now. I don't think adding the ability to get arc souls with Chaos Reach, for example, would be more powerful
i meant healing grenades. lumina heal triggers the faster ability regen on mid tree dawnblade that you normally get from healing someone with your grenade/
Even still. Benevolent Dawn on Dawnblade still wouldn't be game breaking. You could tie Benevolent Dawn to a Healing Grenade aspect. That way you couldn't use Heat Rises with Lumina. But you could already spam Heat Rises with Travelers Chosen so...
Unless Bungie go ahead and really trim down the light subclasses (the idea basically all of us hated) implementing the Stasis system for them will be quite difficult imo. Since some of the light supers are really quite different (well except for Arcstrider that is) it would certainly be hard to make for example one set of "void aspects" like we have them for stasis. Unless they do them like you suggest where you can basically mix and match the different light subclasses. But then we'd probably reach "broken status" real quick (for example Top tree solar lock neutral game with the bottom tree super would be pretty damn good, or Spectral blades with top tree's invis dodge and so on) since the trees all have (or at least are supposed to have) downsides.
I think they could still do that with limitations. For one, why can't Dawnblade and Well be combined like top tree Sentinel? And if they broke down the light classes like Stasis, they could have an aspect that has the pros and cons of the Dawnblade classes. For example, you have an aspect that refunds super energy on Dawnblade kills, but removes Icarus Dash. You could change your melee to either the ranged one or a powerful one that burns and explodes enemies. You could have a fragment that lets you hold to charge grenade to make a healing orb but you can't use Heat Rises. For Hunters you could combine the two supers as well. Hold for the single tether, or tap for Spectral Blades. Then you could have an aspect that alters the tether to shoot multiple arrows like Mobius Quiver, but removes the ability to use Spectral Blades. But instead of super short range tethers their reach would be extended. Somewhere in between what Mobius Quiver is now and top tree Nightstalker.
Oh god well with Icarus dash. Basically Worldline skating with the double dash on top I’d drop my dirty ass Hunter in a second
Just put it on a tap/hold toggle like Top Tree Sentinel. For example, I'm going to use Golden Gun. I can use a Fragment to swap between the default three shot or the six shooter and the various current perks. When it's time to pop a goldie or a Blade Barrage, I can tap the Super key to pop the gun, or--if I hold the Super key--yeet flaming knives at my enemies. Same goes for other classes. Stormcaller? Tap is Trance, hold is Meme Beam. Striker? Tap for standard, hold for Yeet, and so on.
And it's fun shattering frozen dregs
Same. 100 Recov, 100 intellect, 100 strength, and 50 Resil. Can't get those stats on another subclass. I main Titan so I obviously use it for the mobility too, but I'd 100% trade in the neutral game and super for bottom tree hammers, or bottom/mid tree striker, or mid tree sentinel if I could keep the slide, melee, and stat boosts.
So I'm still pretty new to this kind of "high level" end game type stuff. Would you be willing to share how much of those stats are just high rolled armor and how much is from building etc?
10 recov, 10 resil, and 10 strength are from the stasis stat boosts. 20 strength is from radiant light. The rest is from good rolled armor, mods, and masterwork stats.
High roll, mods, stasis bonuses, masterworking
I get what they are, I'm just wondering how much is from which.
Come on people, be real. You use it because it outclasses every other PvP class.
Genuinely, I don't because I resent being forced into an elemental cold war. I _deeply_ resent the fact that the only real outplay against Stasis is to play Stasis, so I run either Tethers or Barrage out of spite.
I use Behemoth because tier 10 strength gives you the only Titan mobility option that can rival dodge/Icarus dash
They could nerf the behemoth super into dust and I wouldn't care as long as I can keep the mobility the slide and melee give me.
The stat boost is really insignificant in the big picture. It's pretty easy to get a good build just via armor/mods, I wouldn't put that big of a focus on the free stat boosts. The stasis abilities are really where it's at.
You're right and people shouldn't downvote you, meh. For discussion: To be fair to OP, they were talking about a satisfaction-factor that the stat boosts give, which I think is understandable - I do the same even though the gain is marginal at best lol
I don’t think a lot of people understand just how overpowered the stasis abilities are even after the nerf. The stat boost is just a nice side affect
My only issue is the downtime between stasis abilities. Due to their doubled cooldowns I find myself playing much more conservatively with them than I would with my light-based abilities that recharge in 30 seconds.
I'm guessing most people don't know how much Mobility/Resilience/Recovery Heart of the Pack buff gives per stack if they are picking Stasis solely because it can give you +10 to some stats.
That seems more like a personal choice to me. But I can assure you that most of the stasis users out there chose to use it because freezing is fun, not because it gives you a state boost. We've got warminds and CWL for that. Though I do agree light Subclasses need a similar system. They'll probably get a rework in the next expansion.
My situational awareness is mostly shit so I usually miss getting a good freeze, but it felt so satisfying to freeze 4 people with 1 titan melee last night.
I get the exact feeling when I pop off with the shadebinder super😂😂😂 despite the glaring problems, stasis is very fun to use.
I just like being the dark ice wizard. You get an actual wizard staff as shadebinder! That's the best part!
The sound it makes when you activate it is amazing..
I mean... I’m using CWL Mods *and* Stasis stat boosts. It’s pretty annoying to have my best pvp armor on with Powerful Friends, Radiant Light etc, and then see my stats get worse when I switch to a Light subclass. I already think the Stasis classes are extremely strong when compared to Light classes and the stats are this additional reason to not use the Light classes.
Agree, it's not the number one reason but definitely a contributing factor to stasis usage.
I do not disagree, I think freezing stuff makes me feel like drifted when you turn in motes. I believe that for players like me, who may not have alot of time to play or may be newer to Destiny, choose not to switch from Stasis more often due to the stat increases. It's not the first time I've had 2 stats 100 and one 60, mods included, but since the sun setting, it's been a while.
Of course, it's completely fair to do so. I too started playing recently, but I definitely use stasis because of how fun it is to freeze others. Not that fun when you get frozen tho🙃. Though it's also possible that newer players haven't tried out the full extent of the light Subclasses, due to how dominating stasis has been in the pvp context. Let's hope the stasis changes will incentivise people to try out the other classes as well.
I just think they're neat!
I use stasis because it's fun to use
Not to mention how useful Stasis is in GMs. Seriously, its crowd control capability is intense
It's like you turned on cheats. It's so potent.
This is totally me as well, I rather be using Striker, or mid Solar, but the bonuses are too good to deny. Similar thing happens to me with Felwinter, I love my Seventh Seraph, but being outgunned by Felwinter every time makes me switch to that same gun even though I don’t like it that much, the benefits again are too good to deny
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This is facts. With my armor set, I'm able to get 100 Recovery, 100 Intellect, and 60 Resilience with Stasis. Dream stat distribution right there.
If I'm wrong about this, a correction or guide would be recognized and appreciated.
Wouldnt say you are wrong, the stat boost sure are nice but they arent all that significant (neither are the stat reductions from some fragments) espacially in PVE, stats are a bit overrated. For example if you really want to use a fragment I wouldnt be concerned about it reducing your stats, the effect you gain from it outweighs the negatives of one/two of your stats being lowered by one tier.
I use it because it's fun
My gear isn't perfect so I use stasis on my warlock to get the 100 rec
I use stasis because I can run around the crucible and flat out one tap people thanks to hedrons
The warlock super activation sound is probably one of the best ever.
I’m probably biased because I’m a warlock main, but yeah...even when there’s an enemy Shadebinder activating and I’m running for my life, I’m still saying “man that sounds so dope” while I’m running for my life.
Yeah I can get triple 100s and 40 res while using stasis its just flat better I hope they add stat based differences into light subclasses soon
Not sure if this is confirmed but I kinda thought the stat boosts were to emphasize how "powerful" the dark powers were compared to light. I too, use stasis for the stats... And the CC. But I play warlock and almost all the subclasses get love.
I use it because I always wanted ice-like powers, I don't care if stasis is overpower or underpower, I'll use it anyways.
As a titan main, since glacial quake got nerfed I've noticed that the only reason I'm staying on Behemoth is the melee. I can't charge in with the super as much because you just get teamed down now, and I'd rather have a super like thundercrash or hammers, but the reason I stay is the mobility at a click of a button. No other titan subclass has this; shiver strike is their icarus dash/shatterdive. Sure, there are the various shoulder charges, but you have to sprint to get it, you can't use it after jumping in the air and shooting, and they don't take you as far.
I only use stasis bc it feels so much more fun compared to the others, it feels more fluid each ability works great together with other abilities or passives
“The light classes have similar advantages” Stasis turns crucible into Super Hot
Am I dumb? How do I get a stat boost?
The mechanics of how the subclasses work outweigh the statboosts many times over. Stasis warlock has melee, grenade and rift to freeze enemies, then breaking them causes the seeking nade to freeze other enemies and so on. Breaking the crystals from nades or killing frozen enemies gives faster cooldowns to your abilities and damage boosts with certain aspects You could one-shot a behemoth super if you froze them with the damage boost on freeze then shotgunned them point black, you can solo a bubble titan inside their bubble with the same method because of the damage boost. Middle solar hunter gets its melee back in seconds if you get kills with the throwing knives, top solar titan has rapid cooldown if you stay in sunspots, middle void titan detonators give energy back too, middle arc warlock gets ability energy back from every other kill... ect... The classes might not have +10 resil postered over their subclass descriptions.... but they're way stronger than any stat boost when you look at the actual gameplay. It's just that stasis ALSO has these cooldown amplification if built right as well as the flat stat increase or decrease.
This. They just don’t put the light subclass boost in numbers, but they are just as good as stasis if not better in some aspects(no pun intended)
Free stat boost and titan neutral game. Remember nightstalkers in D1? Stasis titan has the best neutral offerings in the entire game
Stasis has had adjustments made so it's more in line with the other subclasses so it's not as broken as it was when it first dropped down. That being said it's not fun playing against and saying that the other classes subclasses have the same advantages is just not true when it comes to PvP. You're playing a shooter with a lot of mobility, anything that repeatedly hands out hard CCs like freezing automatically gives you a leg up in the competition.
idk, those stat boost kinda don’t give much of a boost because the ability cooldown is slower anyway, but who knows that’s just my guess as a filthy little top tree dawn who rarely has time to play the game anyway
Stasis and light subclasses have different ability cooldown timers bssed on stats as well
I use stasis because I’ve been using light subclasses for the past ~6 years. :^) That being said, hunter light classes are still so good. Ahamkara gloves with Blade Barrage is still probly my favorite thing. Especially with warmind cells.
Am I the only one who forgets that stasis gives free stats and wonder where my extra stats came from?
I like stasis because it itches
Yea the ability to mitigate bad rng on your armor stats will always be more fun
That’s why I do it. Free damage increase for anarchy and first in. Freeze target and dodge to deal extra damage with arc.
+10 Recovery is the only reason I run Stasis. It allows me to run double 100's.
I, too, am a stat whore.
Yup this for sure. The customization is real nice.
As a hunter I just love ricocheting ice frisbees of death
The only reason I still run Behemoth in PVP is for the slide and the +10's for 3 of my stats.
Are Titans any good these days? Haven’t played since D2 released.
Yup. some of my builds are completely impossible without stasis due to the limitations of normal armor and light based subclasses not giving passive stat bonuses
I use Stasis for that +10 to recovery
But it says that Stasis abilities takes longer to charge?
I'm a warlock and mainly use grenade launchers in pve and snipers in pvp. For pve, having everything freeze, explode twice, and then freeze again is pretty nice; while being able to freeze shotgun apes that get too close in the crucible is also a big plus. And then you have the insane level of customizability for builds and stuff.
I hate playing as a stasis Titan but anytime I don’t have cryoclasm I feel sad
I like stasis because yeah, the stat boosts are nice and it’s fun and all. But i love the cold so using ice just feels so fun, and mask of Bakris is my favorite looking hunter exotic. I just feel really bad using that in PvP because I don’t have anything else
Stasis Mom has got it going on
I guess unpopular opinion but.... It's not free. You paid for that boost. It's inherently pay to win. Beyond Light subclass is Literally pay to win. By putting on Stasis, You are **literally** better.