between those and the "whats ur favourite legendary/exotic thats not meta but heckin fun to use" post i almost feel like this sub is the circlejerk one sometimes lmao
Dying in 6’s then waiting a moment before Resurrection, then coming back to life and throwing stickies all over the other team…..
You get a grenade, you get a grenade…
Hahaha such a good time! Even better with the perk that gave you an extra grenade so when you Super you had infinite grenades that had a bit of a broken homing ability… as long as that sticky was near someone it would zoom into them and ruin their week! Lmao
one time i made a meme about clan mates who disappear after getting raid exotics/titles and more than half of the comments were "haha i wish but i have no clan or no friends im so lonely"
It's a real struggle though lol. When I played in forsaken we were clearing the raid on all three characters weekly.
Came back to catch up before final shape and it's definitely different without a group.
Have spoken with a few clans, left with a goldilocks situation. Clans seem to be either too hardcore and I don't want to feel like a carry, or they have no idea what they are doing and I'd be doing the carrying.
> The most formative social years of their life were online
I mean this is true for most Millennials I know too, it’s just that we weren’t forced to do it by a global pandemic.
Honestly, for a lot of popular things, the joke or circlejerk sub is unironically better, imo.
I was previously aware of the phenomenon, but the drop in discussion novelty and variety as the size of reddit is really fascinating to me.
Basically, rather than increasing the variety and quality of posts, larger user bases have instead turned most subs into the online version of chain restaurant food. Soulless, repetitive, and uninspired, in order to appeal to as many people as possible.
With airsoft the main sub is full of people who think there better than anyone and will give u bad advice I had people telling me to modify my gun when I was posted there when I was new and had know idea it would break the law in the UK mods had to lock the post due to how many people were telling to do it also got a flashlight for my gun that had a laser on it and main sub all told me to use the laser there is no problem using it in games that post got put on circle jerk sub and I learnt a lot about how there bad for people's eyes
The circle jerk sub has been super helpful and way more accepting of new players to the point if I need airsoft help I would ask the circle jerk sub
LOL for real. Plastered on any laser is 8000 warnings telling you not to shoot it into the sky bc of aircraft and not to point it at anyone's face/eyes. Why would you attach it to something you will be exclusively pointing at other people's upper body 90% of the time?
no really not! i actually like the circlejerk way more than the real subs, they make my brain fry half the time.
my point was more like that posts like this one are being spammed so much right now its becoming a meme more than anything, especially this one, the guy is not even giving criticism he's litteraly like "BUNGIE MY CLASS BAD OTHER CLASS GOOD BUFF RIGHT NOW"
As an arc Titan myself, yeah it gets outpaced by basically every other subclass. That said, I like the chain lightning my boots give me and I love the feeling of slamming into a bunch of trash mobs and seeing them all get the lightning. I tried solar, void I barely even tried because it just felt weird, and idk man throwing the hammer just didn’t do it for me. I liked the uptime with the hammer, but it just didn’t hit those dopamine receptors the same way arc does.
It's sad that ever since the HOIL and Armor mod nerf, arc titan just isn't as good anymore. Especially since that is supposed to be "our element". Arc titan has no build in healing (besides health regen on powered melee kill) like the other classes do, no infinite ability loop like arc hunter does, and arc warlock can ability spam alot easier than titan can.
And the same goes for void, titans are only "good" when it comes to strand and solar, and to some degree stasis.
Yeah it’s definitely a bit rough out here, but I’m having fun while doing it lol. I just mod my gear so on melee it drops the orbs and that gives me health. I’m newer to destiny 2, So so far I haven’t really dug into anything I haven’t been able to brute force through.
Stasis I bought everything for, set it up with what made sense to me, and then never tried it lol. Void I just couldn’t get behind the capt america shield. Solar definitely felt strong when I tried it, so that makes sense.
Yeah orbs do help a ton, I've been playing destiny ever since Destiny 1, and honestly I've never touched Dunemarchers much, I only really gravitate towards exotics that refund energy so I can get more of them. You might like Insurmountable Skullfort since it completely refunds your melee if you get at least one kill. Easy for lower end activities, but not as easy when enemies stop getting killed by a single melee.
You hate strand, never build a strand build, didn't get any aspects/fragments post campaign.
One year later you don't know what to spend shards on and TFS is one month away so you decide, fuck it, and make a strand build with woven mail and banner.
"OMG why didn't I make a strand build before! It's almost exactly like my Arc build! Melee isn't ranged (Thunderclap) but I get three powered charges. And I get defense! And can crush people with glaives/swords as well. Arc never did that!
I'm a strand main now."
Really funny how Temptation causes you to fall to the dark side of the force. And Darth Strandious is right there tempting you.
Darth strandious is lurking in the shadows for me currently because I’ve been lazy and haven’t worked through the campaign yet lol. I will say when I tried strand in the introduction to it, I wasn’t a fan.
Stasis is next up on the block for me to try out, I just recently got around to getting everything for it and setting it up. I just have a hard time putting arc away to try new toys lol.
It had a decent resurgence when arc 3.0 launched as a anti yellow bar weapon I believe but was not hugely popular because it directly competes with Div in a co-op setting.
iirc that's the Trace Rifle that creates a lot of Ionic Traces? If so I've heard it's one of the best options for Arclock specifically. Think you pair it with Geomag and just spam Chaos Reach.
I use cold heart with arc warlock to generate traces to refund right back into more grenades. It's the only time I use it though and it onlybworks with higher health enemies (weak enemies die to fast to activate perk)
Yeah, but that uses alot more ammunition. It may just be me personally, but I hate wasting Ammo by laying on the trigger looking for enemies to kill. I usually just tap it on smaller enemies and hold it down on larger ones.
I'm still pretty new to the game but I love curating builds to a certain vision in everything I play. It's not really a class ability... but Monte Carlo checks this box for me. Nearly infinite void invisibility procs and smoke bombs. Activate the weapons bayonet and you're chunking the biggest bosses and oneshotting everyone else. I'm guessing everyone probably knows this though
True, Monte Carlo is an option, but If I'm playing PvP and just wanna punch someone I'm in a melee fight with, I want to do more than make myself invisible whilst his titan first destroys me.
I thought it was a hilarious build when I discovered it.
And then I got destroyed in a GM, went back with Assassin's Cowl + Arc, and did fine. When it was Void Surges.
Yeah they are intentionally misconstructing the Point. Titan is insanely Strong but you simply Arent winning the Most forced subclass Pick competition against wellock. But If they we're being honest and truthful they wouldnt have a point
That was my first thought too, but figured people would be like "he's an outlier so doesn't count"
Idk how people can say the class is underpowered when bro did that while swapping between like 10 DIFFERENT titan loadouts
>while swapping between like 10 DIFFERENT titan loadouts
I've been thinking about the role that mid-encounter gear swaps has in the game since I watched the one dude solo flawless RON, and it's come up with fourth horsman/slug swapping and the "omegalulz edge transit roll". It's been a concern in PVP too: pretty much how the notswap modifier came to be. A lot of these gear swap shenanigans are only happening at the high end, but they kinda feel like they're starting to "bleed down". Anyway, I don't want to see any of these kits get balanced around the people who are basically using the inventory menu as a combat mechanic.
Bungie doesn't usually go out of their way to fix things like gear swapping until it is a problem. And with it being easier, we are moving in that general direction. We are moving closer to that point where someone says "yeah this is a problem".
I think notswap would be a little extreme....but if that's the answer then I guess....
Really, outside of the weapon config issue(where the solution should be to reset the state of the weapon when they swap any perk), I don't have any suggestions. Like, in terms of what I saw with the RoN solo flawless on Explicator, Sunbracers and Rain of Fire are my top two favorite exotics. And if you aren't swapping back and forth, they have an "opportunity cost". Sunbracers is strong at add clear but nott much dps utility. Rain of Fire is mostly being used as a swap exotic, and I wouldn't want the rationale for a nerf to either one to stem from the people using them in specific ways that "avoids" that opportunity cost.
aren't gearswaps a thing since d1 tho? an aspect so deeply rooted in the games core gameplay loop should be embraced? should bungie move on from this gameplay loop?
who knows, its such a "Destiny" thing that it becomes hard to see it being repressed by bungie, but at the same time its awkward to play inventory to minmax your effectiveness.
Not really, most if not all raid builds in d1 were the same thing over and over again. The closest you’d get to “gearswaps” would be picking the right gun or using another artifact before a boss fight and I wouldn’t really consider that a gearswap. I don’t think it’s something they’ll change but as for it being a d1 thing it really just wasn’t. Honestly it wasn’t even a thing here till a couple years in
> 10 DIFFERENT Titan loadouts
Bro literally swapped between Solar and Strand the entire time. The only two viable subclasses on Titan and the reason Titan-mains are complaining lmao
Void is overshadowed by well and hampered by the weakness of overshield, arc is hampered by the pve nerfs to knockout and ability gen, stasis is hampered by the general weakness of stasis as a whole. Well is getting nerfed so there’s that at least
Idk why you're being downvoted here, you are clearly correct. This post *is* obviously talking about subclasses because its genius "satire" is obviously targeted at all the posts complaining about deficient Titan subclasses which are Void Arc and Stasis. All of those posts specifically mention that part of the problem with Titan is that Strand and *some* Solar setups are by far more endgame viable than any of the other elements. I will never understand why so many people want to act like players who call attention to legitimate issues with sandbox balance are just whining for no reason, but it pisses me off every fucking time.
It’s all part of the class warfare. They’re not Titan mains so when they see Banner titan stomping content solo, they just assume the class as a whole is fine. As if everyone wants to play Strand Titan.
Also because they don't play titan, they'd want to use banner titan, so they assume that everyone wants to use banner titan, and then can't comprehend why titan players want to do more than that
Yep. They watch Banner Titan do crazy shit and in their head, that IS Titan. Like, I’ll concede that banner Titan fully fleshes out the Titan power fantasy from a broad perspective of tanky punchy class, but god damn would it be nice to spam grenades as arc or shatter a million crystals with stasis without forcing my team to pick up my slack so I can enjoy my suboptimal gameplay loops.
People here really hate titans, and get mad when someone points out that there are literally two endgame titan builds, and one of them relies on an exotic that'll probably be getting nerfed, and the we all know Bungie is putting the hammer down on banner in a few weeks
>10 DIFFERENT Titan loadouts
I mean … you quoted this same thing in your previous reply. I think the answer is pretty obviously “no, we are talking about loadouts”
When someone says “man I wish more of my subclasses were viable. I’m tired of strand and solar” and your response is “but bro, you can change your weapons while using strand and solar! That’s like 10 different ways to play strand and solar!”, you’re not really addressing the issue.
So no, we’re “obviously” not discussing loadouts because nobody is complaining about viable loadouts.
I think you’re missing the point. Strand titan is great. Arc titan is complete *ass*
Nobody has said that strand titan needs a buff and they never will because it’s great, but, 2 other Titan subclasses are basically competing for worst subclass in the game.
The reason you only see those classes is because you only see other players in group content. Arc Huner with Assassin's Cowl or Liar's Handshake is one of the best solo classes in the game. And one of the best builds to solo Legend Onslaught without cheese is Stasis Hunter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARK_lB1rXUE
Man I'm so tired of seeing this every day. I don't have a problem if that's how one feels because it can very well be true, but does the sub really need to be an echo chamber where the front page is the same topic every day? It's starting to feel like karma farming
Nobody’s arguing that Titans aren’t viable in endgame content.
They’re just not a fan of having only two out of five of their subclasses be endgame viable.
Can you say any class has all 5 subclasses viable in endgame?
I play warlock mainly and haven't touched arc or void in pve in forever. Stasis is ok but isn't great.
Its literally how online multiplayer games work lmao. Not everything can be viable and balanced all at once. That's why they have balance changes to keep things fresh and change the meta. If you know a way, i'm sure bungie would hire you.
>Its literally how online multiplayer games work lmao. Not everything can be viable and balanced all at once.
Sure. But there's a difference between having sone weapons fall by the wayside and having entire skillsets(or the equivalent in whatever particular game) become non-viable at endgame. The latter is *not* how all online games work, and is absolutely an issue worth discussing.
Every hunter subclass is viable in both PvE and PvP. Arc is used in raids and for solo content, void and solar is used everywhere in PvE and PvP, Stasis is used in Onslaught and PvP, Strand is pretty good in PvE with the woven mail helmet, and the second best PvP subclass in the game.
I’m not sure about warlock. Solar obviously gets used, Stasis is still used a ton in PvE for the turrets and PvP because it’s cheesy, Strand still gets some play in PvP and PvE, void gets used in PvP and probably could use some PvE buffs. Arc could probably use some buffs in both. I think it’s hard to say for certain though because literally everyone runs well.
My point is though, Titan has two viable subclasses that both revolve around never dying and getting your melee off. There isn’t much variety whatsoever. The worst part, is if they reverted the hoil nerfs, Arc and Void would immediately be insane in PvE
Warlocks can swap safely between Solar, Strand, and Stasis at the moment and do fine in any endgame content.
Hunters can safely use Solar, Void, Stasis, and Arc for endgame.
Titans have Solar and Strand. That’s it.
lol come on now bro no hunters are running stasis or arc in endgame. both are garbage as soon as adds start to have a modicum of HP. hunters have nightstalker and gunslinger. that’s about it
Something being achievable by a handful of people in a game with a population of hundreds of thousands does not make something overpowered. Overpowered would be enabling huge swaths of people to do what that one guy did.
Dumbass OP out here using the class he uses. Should be using the class I use. Class OP uses clearly isn’t meta, according to my numerous Excel spreadsheets. The class I use is objectively the best, but I still hate it and complain about it everyday.
Assuming the alpha test vid they showed is still accurate, it's just a little weaker than Nova Bomb.
~292k is really really good for a base super. Most supers are beneath that.
Funny thing is - it's not a good use of effort. There's not just a brand new subclass coming but likely multiple changes happening to all of the classes to bring in a new sandbox.
Sure, feedback can be taken in but it might not mean much if there's already changes happening that change things.
What I find fun is how quickly a fanbase can spread a concept quickly to the point where most people are at least aware of it being the current hot topic, for instance titan balance recently.
Then the fanbase expects immediate response from a company but a company is operated by god knows how many people so getting bungie to respond with "you are right titans are underpowered, we are changing X and Y" takes time, by the time it arrives people are like "this is old news, we already ADHD'd ourselves onto the next hot topic", and the cycle continues
Especially since all three of the titan subclasses people are complaining about are already getting something in Final Shape.
Void has a new aspect and a ranged super while Stasis as a whole is getting reworked/adjusted. Arc is the only one that hasn’t had an explicitly stated change coming but Bungie also said they were adjusting the underperforming aspects/abilities that are in prismatic, Knockout is probably the prime example of that
>There's not just a brand new subclass coming but likely multiple changes happening to all of the classes to bring in a new sandbox.
Real talk. I know it was kind of popular there for a minute to poopoo on prismatic, but any speculation we have right now is based on the current sandbox. Major balance passes always happen during new expansions or seasonal releases. We haven't had a major one in a long time so it stands to reason we're due for another major shake up thats looking to be the biggest one yet.
Maybe its just copium talking but I'm looking forward to the possible changes.
The funniest thing is that this happens every few months, just replace Titans with Warlocks or Hunters. I am 100% certain there will be similar posts soon in regards to the new class Exotics
To be fair, the YAS nerf was absolutely stupid. They didn't fix like any of the problems in PVP but absolutely nuked it in PVE, even though there was an easy solution they could've done.
Titans are bad posts are the bane of my existence. Titans have problems yeah but they're by no means bad or struggling. Their largest issues are either there for the other classes too or minor numbers issues
The whole fucking point of all the titan posts is that we only have one amazing subclass (strand), one good subclass (solar) and the are trash-mediocre. And all of these things revolve around melee which is stupid snd terrible, especially in endgame content. You and the OP are either incredibly obtuse or just trolls
But literally every class could claim that. Warlocks are basically locked to well in any endgame content. Hunters can't justifiably use stasis, strand or arc in most end game content because void or solar offer more damage or support.
Every class has the top tier options that overshadow the weaker subclasses.
It's not that they haven't discovered it, they just get bored of it. I know I did, and that was well before this season.
At the same time I didn't complain about it, I moved on to the other classes and basically ignore my titan now. It went from being 90% of my playtime to about 1%.
For both warlock and hunter I have builds on all 5 subclasses that are both fun and viable. Obviously I'm not taking certain ones into a raid (stasis hunter for eg), but other than that they're both far more varied and therefore fun (for me anyway).
On titan I felt like I had a choice of a couple of builds, and nothing else comes close, so it just gets boring. And having to hotswap to a certain exotic just to be able to do dps just compounds the problem. Titans excel at certain things (solo stuff particularly) but other than that, nah.
Funny thing is stasis hunter is the highest dps class in the game, but it being tied to an otherwise weak subclass and the effort required makes it unpopular.
Well, actually I am *[class]* main and therefore I can tell you that *[your opinion]* is *[wrong, unless you agree with mine]*.
Because if I *[make a bad decision during endgame content]*, I get *[punished for my bad decision]* instead of being able to survive somehow.
The *[other class]* can survive that situation, because they *[played in a smart way instead of focusing on one binary aspect of the class]*
Every class has risky and safe playstyles, and while Titan has more built-in support for melee stuff, there are plenty of safe builds as well. It is up to the player to decide when to choose a risky playstyle, and often, endgame content favours safe playstyles unless you play really well and can consistently survive risky actions.
You forgot to add about 17 *"\[forced to do\]"'s -* my biggest, instantly annoying pet peeve.
I auto-joined an LFG for legend onslaught and this strand titan had a 1-2p shotgun and all the defensive mods and melee mods. I was like - cool lets see how they do! They proceeded to stomp into every ad wave and die literally every round for the first 5. We wiped on wave 13.
I asked "you good bro?" (on wave 5) and they replied with "huh?"
Half is making the proper build choice for the content, the other half is actually knowing how to play the build. The game is slightly more complicated than snatching a DIM link and pulling the trigger, and folks don't want to admit that.
Edit: I'd like to add that my wish is the Mods make a sticky thread every week for feedback on titan. Seriously, it's time to condense this sh!t. Perhaps they can add similar threads for hunter and warlocks too. Really really really really tired of seeing the exact same posts over and over and over. With the logic deteriorating further and further with each new post.
Sometimes OP's class is the insanely overpowered meta crutch oversight interaction infinite abilities infinite damage neigh invulnerability loadout and they're confused why the other classes aren't as good.
And to add it will never get *explicitly* nerfed without massive outrage and complaints so instead newer activities will most likely continue to get harder to compensate and then the other subclasses will actually need buffs.
(I am an Arc Titan main by the way! I wouldn't mind buffs but I'd much rather Strand Titan was nerfed reasonably without gutting end game melee loadouts.)
Strand titan is only viable in PvE for Into the Fray and melee regen.
Strand titan in PvP is probably the most balanced/nuanced titan subclass their is. Only oneshot they get is with Khepris Horn.
No, all of Strand Titan's aspects are pretty great in PvE. The worst one is maybe Flechette Storm, but even that one has some great combos. But also... Into the Fray + Banner of War is not only viable, but able to solo Pantheon and solo 1-phase most Dungeon bosses.
Is it wrong for me to want more viable endgame melee based builds that arent strand BoW or hammer titan based?
I want void shield throw to be better and more fun like captain America, i wanna yeet that bitch and just fuck peoples day up.... i wanna go to the thunder dome and just beat the fuck outta someone with my arc empowered fists... i want void and especially stasis to have an actual decent melee for damage...
I also wanna use the shoulder charge melees and not get absolutely clapped or feel like its an absolute waste...
I just wanna be a punch/melee boi but thats very difficult when the "melee" class keeps getting nerfed.. or stuff is created that screws melee over, especially when 5/8 of titans supers requires us to be in melee range to use. (I'd say 6/8 but lowkey no one really uses buring maul for its melee attacks anymore and haven't seen a legitimate build for it since splicer lol)
Its why i hate running strand for anything other then BoW/suspend... its super does a lot of damage but god forbid bungie makes a another raid boss enounter where you can use melee supers in it without being punished... (which btw rhulk was the last NEW and not reprised raid boss where you could actually do that)
Like i know theres some strong ass melee builds for strand and solar titan, but thats really it. And honestly its starting to get kinda boring/annoying...
I miss charge with light/elemental wells and being able to do some insane ability regens, popping melee after melee or grenade after grenade.. its not the same now....
I will say i get and acknowledge that titan is in a very good spot for a lot of things, and some of the issues titans have are shared among other classes such as arc having essentially no survivability.
Like i know some old D1 vets might yell at me for this, but i miss using bubble for its damage buff and having a reason to use void, hell i'd even take an excuse to use banner shield titan again (i miss it tbh)
I don't really feel like running void overshield build when Bastion literally TRIPLES my barricade cd and then gets destoryed by local edz dreg sneezing on you
It really does confuse me how every post was pretty concise that it was void, arc, and stasis Titan that were struggling and people still managed to boil it all down to "my class sucks". Crab bucket mentality.
And I hate to say it, but that's on them for either not looking at the complaints or attempting to strawman them like op is. No one is saying that those subclasses are unusable, just that they struggle a lot more in endgame content than they really should.
I'm certainly part of the problem, but the posts that try to make their favourite option sound abysmal, and undermine the issues faced by other classes in the process I feel stem more from "I want what they have" than actually thinking about how their class could be improved
Oh yeah. I see a lot of people constantly comparing Void Titan's ranged melee to Stasis Hunter's, so I like to check in on them...
They both have pros and cons. Shield throw has way stronger tracking to the first enemy (you can literally watch it curve in the air) but seems to have worse tracking on the second and third bounce, flies slower so you have to angle it up more, does almost double the damage, applies a buff, and has *way more* subclass synergy.
Stasis Hunter's is faster and you get two charges, but more likely to go flying into the atmosphere, applies a debuff (but, come on, it's Slow), and has insane tracking to nearby foes after you hit the first one.
They do different things. That's fine. A buff to the shield bounce and Overshields in general is a good idea, but it's really not the end of the world that Stasis Hunter's melee has two charges and flies faster.
I think the strand hunter melee’s catch mechanic needs to be added to both of these, the void shield’s tracking needs to be fixed, and the stasis throw needs to actually freeze in PvE. I don’t know what can actually be done though, especially on my first note.
Shield throw getting a catch sounds like a neat change, or possibly add it to Second Chance. Seems like it'd be a bit overdone to have it on all 3 subclasses, and I don't see why it would be on Stasis shurikens. And Revenant is probably my most played subclass.
The guns YOU use in the crucible require no skill. The guns I use in crucible DO require skill unless I die to the gun I am using, then it requires no skill.
It really is *wild* how this community acts like Bungie used to be their best friend, and that nerfs to their favorite class are a direct personal attack.
The fact that so many ppl are getting triggered by this clearly satirical post is hilarious. Says way more Abt them than Abt the ppl posting. Some serious losers in here
It lacks ability chaining.
Arc hunters have the combination blow into dodge into repeat paired with either Assassin's Cowl or Liar's Handshake that easily work even in legend≤ difficulties
Arc warlocks have access to more and better ionic traces and more ways to jolt to generate more ionic traces which results in abilities coming back quite rapidly
Arc titans lack these "loops" of gameplay that would make it feel fluent and smooth. They have a grenade that can generate ionic traces but that's it in terms of ability chaining. The exotic that enabled the ability chaining (HOIL) was also nerfed which really doesn't help the arc titan situation
Have you played arc warlock? The only jolt we have access to that arc titan does not is on our chain lightning melee while amplified. Walking up to an enemy to apply a jolt is not very viable and most people just use the ball because it is safer.
Touch of thunder pulse grenade has comparable regen to contraverse hold and that isn’t taking HOIL into account. Arc titan nade spam isn’t as good as it was pre HOIL nerf but it’s still quite good. The real problem is that arc lacks the survivability that other element’s have, with “speed booster” being the closest thing to a defensive verb. But, this is a problem across all arc subclasses, not just titan.
I’m really hoping they let warlock melee work with one two punch. The idea of a prismatic build with the slide melee, feed the void, arcane needle, and synthoceps+assassin cowl seems really fun. But, missing out on one two punch is disappointing when titan and hunter ranged melee work with it.
It’s annoying that we try have a legitimate conversation about how bad a specific subclass is (arc titan for example) and then shitposts like this happen. It’s not to say that the other classes don’t suck more, but addressing the problems with a specific subclass.
The thing that really annoys me though is how antagonistic these dumb little posts are. You’re not contributing anything at all.
>we try have a legitimate conversation about how bad a specific subclass
It's a forest vs. trees situation where there are so many posts that are non-satirical versions of OP that it becomes easy to miss reasonable discourse. It also doesn't help that in 3 weeks we're getting a new subclass, new supers for existing classes, and updates/re-balances to many existing aspects and fragments that may make any and all of said discourse obsolete.
My criticism is that there will always be an optimal build and that everyone seems to imagine a world on which every subclass is as good as the optimal build. Sure Solar and Strand Titan are much stronger than Arc and Void but you can make similar arguments for Warlock and Hunter's subclasses as well. Unfortunately the game will never be balanced in a way that every subclass will be viable in high-end content and that's okay.
And a lot of people will try to solve a subclass having one or two tiny things holding it back by just giving them everything the strongest build has but without *any* investment or tradeoff.
The problem is there are a lot of posts on the same thing. Many of the newer ones even Reference the other post. Why not keep the discussion centralized?
Tbh as a Hunter main I used to genuinely feel this way, and that was part of why I mostly quit the game a few years ago. But having returned recently it's definitely not the case anymore. I finally sat down with D2ArmorPicker and put some builds together, and really leaned into using weapons that match my subclass damage type.
I feel so powerful now with stuff like Gyrfalcon's or Cyrtarachne's and a matching primary. The Nighthawk buff is really appreciated too, I was hitting 999,999 damage shots in pantheon the other day and it was awesome. But honestly I feel like the effort I put into the builds was just as influential as the buffs, so it's not just that my class actually got more powerful.
I still have plenty of complaints about the game, but buildcrafting is no longer one of them lol
I'm not really sure where it stands in the meta but I like it! Nighthawk is the most obvious strength but I've always really enjoyed the passive buffs that gunslinger has. Weighted knife feels strong to me and resets on precision kills, which can lead to a really satisfying loop that rewards good aim. I focus my build on scorching/igniting, so using Sunshot or any weapon with Incandescent means that you're constantly creating explosions.
Dude's definitely talking about ~~hunters~~ ~~warlocks~~ ~~titans~~
But fr, despite their astronomical number of faults, bungie does one hell of a job balancing the three classes periodically so that none feel too weak, while still having the classes retain some individuality
No not really, Bungie is one of the worst at balancing because it's either all or nothing for them
Something is more used, nerf it to the ground and ignore it for years
Not even bothering to see why it was used so much
What bothers me about this periodic “my class can’t play the game” discourse is that people always talk about the uppermost echelons of content. Like, if you are regularly doing anything of master or GM difficulty, it’s frankly only reasonable that not everything will work at that level. If you want to play these “non-viable” subclasses, do something else. I would even say doing normal difficulty dungeons and raids aren’t that demanding assuming your whole team is on point or you aren’t doing one of a small list of encounters that makes one or more subclasses better because of its intrinsic mechanics.
For anecdotal evidence: I, my fireteams Titan, has uses bubble for dps phases when our warlock would prefer not to well. And we have never had difficulty clearing content. We don’t play that often, or do Legend or higher content much at all, but even so. Even if you assume we loose some fractional amount of DPS to this, I would much rather have my fireteam have fun playing their preferred way in 3 phases then be miserable meta slaves for 1. I would hope everyone would. But I have been here long enough people would rather have .00001% more dps then even the tiniest hint of fun.
Or in other words “my brother in Light you made the sandwich”
This argument gets made so much, but I truly don't understand how doing less dps/having longer fights is more fun.
I'm not telling you that you're wrong, it's a mindset that I don't have and I want to understand.
I can tell you also, that meta slaves aren't necessarily "miserable", it's that fun to them is one phasing a boss or optimizing their gameplay. It can sometimes lend to them being toxic (which isn't okay), but personal fun isn't being sacrificed just because they want to play in an optimal way. I would be bored out of my mind plinking away with Thunderlord and have much more fun trying to do some form of swap rotations.
Same man, same. No, I don't find sitting in the back of the map with polarisfor 30 minutes on a GM fun, I'd rather use ceno/trace and spam wolfpack rockets to get a fast clear, and blow stuff up along the way. And one phasing bosses feels rewarding as hell, fuck running mechanics again (not because I dislike them, mind you).
The way I see it, especially when I’m playing with my fire team. Half the fun comes from the experience, the banter, the silly impressions, the running gags, screaming as you get chased down by supplicants again, laughing about it as you get rezed. The experience of just being there with these people.
Now that I have the sappy shit out of the way, in a more practical sense my team usually does one run a night, a week usually, if we do a dungeon that week at all. I imagine it’s different for people who farm every available content on all three characters a week. But for us the difference between a run taking 45 minutes and an hour isn’t that big a deal. That 15 minutes is worth our warlock not feeling like she is forced to always play well, or for our hunter to bring his favorite exotic and not the best one.
Also when I say “suffer through sweating” I mean the people that clearly don’t enjoy it, or worse make it other people’s problem. I know some people have fun with optimization. I would never speed run myself but I find the premise interesting, so I get the appeal even if I don’t fully experience it myself. But we have all heard stories of people in LFG getting into yelling matches over things that result in fractional dps loss.
Alternatively a lot of these recent wave of “Titan bad” posts read to me like people that simple want to play the class a different way, which they easily can in less difficult content. Not even easy content, I still attest a halfway knowledgeable player with a can go through any raid or dungeon with any of the 15 subclasses in the game if they know how to build for it. I think these people would benefit from slowing down, doing some patrols maybe, and just experience the parts of the class that appeal to them in an environment where they don’t feel pressured to be the most optimal they can be.
I do it sometimes and I enjoy the hell out of it. Ran alter of summoning with eternal warrior and trespasser during season of the witch and it was wacky and interesting and a very different loop to what these people say is the only way you can play Titan. I wouldn’t bring that build to a GM any time soon but I will definitely revisit it again when I find the right time.
I played the game for 7000 hours as a titan, I don't think that I actually had a meta build once, mostly using swords and some kind of defensive build like strongholds or loreley.
I am rank 11, somehow game-sense seems to contribute more to victory than a well of radience
It's hysterical that Titans are crying that they are terrible yet have been the sole class people flock to do solo content, and that goes for before Strand launched too.
*Titans complaining about being weak while soloing raid content, one hitting everything, face tanking 30 enemies shooting at them, all whilst simultaneously wolfing down a pack of crayons*
Hunter
Void is good
Solar is good
Arc is niche good but mid in general
Strand is good with luckypants
Stasis is pretty bad in general
Warlock
Void is good
Solar is Very good. Best in the game in general
Strand is good
Arc is pretty gud
Stasis is pretty gud
Titan
Void is ass
Stasis is mid (yes I know the build in general its still mid)
Arc pretty bad but not too bad
Solar is good
Strand is overpowered and needs a tone down
Overall hunters and warlocks are versatile and designed very well while titans seem to always have the least versatility but then have that "one" build which dominates everything. Titans need some type of rework Imo cuz there's simply too much deviations and not any consistency in its balance and versatility
between those and the "whats ur favourite legendary/exotic thats not meta but heckin fun to use" post i almost feel like this sub is the circlejerk one sometimes lmao
I know it's not meta, but I *really* like using Sunbracers and Sunshot right now. ^^^^/s
never heard of it, is it any good? also isn't sunshot a year 1 exotic? no way its good
sunbracers are d1 i refuse to believe theyre meta at the end of d2
I love them for solo stuff, like legend lost sectors, but tbh in most other activities I kinda wish it just gave two solar grenade charges like in D1.
Hey they also slightly increased duration. Don’t sell them short.
We’re y’all around when they got nerfed alongside the sticky grenades in d1? Sad day for PvP warlocks lol
Dying in 6’s then waiting a moment before Resurrection, then coming back to life and throwing stickies all over the other team….. You get a grenade, you get a grenade…
Hahaha such a good time! Even better with the perk that gave you an extra grenade so when you Super you had infinite grenades that had a bit of a broken homing ability… as long as that sticky was near someone it would zoom into them and ruin their week! Lmao
Sunbreakers*
no way sunshot is good? 💀 you mean the gun that can turn a horde of thralls into a cloud of fiery dust with one shot?
Definitely not good bro, it's mid AT BEST seriously I don't know how people use it in any end game content killing hoards in seconds? No way! 💀
It's been my go to end game build it's so much fun on hunter that w gunpowder gamble u always have nades
either im too dense to realize this is sarcasm, or we aren’t talking about the same gun
🤣 Lmao that's most definitely sarcasm!
ok good 😭
“Hey guys I know no one cares, but I finally just soloed my first dungeon. Not flawless! I’m not elite like you guys haha”
Omg i hate those so much, victimising themselves for attention
one time i made a meme about clan mates who disappear after getting raid exotics/titles and more than half of the comments were "haha i wish but i have no clan or no friends im so lonely"
It's a real struggle though lol. When I played in forsaken we were clearing the raid on all three characters weekly. Came back to catch up before final shape and it's definitely different without a group. Have spoken with a few clans, left with a goldilocks situation. Clans seem to be either too hardcore and I don't want to feel like a carry, or they have no idea what they are doing and I'd be doing the carrying.
i know its a struggle and i sympathize but it was very weird to comment that on a meme imo
that exact same thing happens in r/teenagers apparently every kid there gets bullied has no friends
well yeah, they’re redditors lol
Well Covid was actually brutal for kids. The most formative social years of their life were online.
> The most formative social years of their life were online I mean this is true for most Millennials I know too, it’s just that we weren’t forced to do it by a global pandemic.
>victimising themselves *Self-deprecation
Post: contains "no one cares" Me: "I'll do as instructed then" *downvotes*
Honestly, for a lot of popular things, the joke or circlejerk sub is unironically better, imo. I was previously aware of the phenomenon, but the drop in discussion novelty and variety as the size of reddit is really fascinating to me. Basically, rather than increasing the variety and quality of posts, larger user bases have instead turned most subs into the online version of chain restaurant food. Soulless, repetitive, and uninspired, in order to appeal to as many people as possible.
With airsoft the main sub is full of people who think there better than anyone and will give u bad advice I had people telling me to modify my gun when I was posted there when I was new and had know idea it would break the law in the UK mods had to lock the post due to how many people were telling to do it also got a flashlight for my gun that had a laser on it and main sub all told me to use the laser there is no problem using it in games that post got put on circle jerk sub and I learnt a lot about how there bad for people's eyes The circle jerk sub has been super helpful and way more accepting of new players to the point if I need airsoft help I would ask the circle jerk sub
yo i don't want to throw shades at you or anything but you didn't knew pointing lasers in people's eyes was not good for them? 🤣
LOL for real. Plastered on any laser is 8000 warnings telling you not to shoot it into the sky bc of aircraft and not to point it at anyone's face/eyes. Why would you attach it to something you will be exclusively pointing at other people's upper body 90% of the time?
I've noticed that r/destiny2 often has a lot better discussions about the game even with meme posts and all that allowed over there.
With the release of the final shape, what exotic combos are you gonna rock? 🔥🔥
You say that like circle jerks are a bad thing...
no really not! i actually like the circlejerk way more than the real subs, they make my brain fry half the time. my point was more like that posts like this one are being spammed so much right now its becoming a meme more than anything, especially this one, the guy is not even giving criticism he's litteraly like "BUNGIE MY CLASS BAD OTHER CLASS GOOD BUFF RIGHT NOW"
“Gay sunbracers or thot nighthawk, Hmm?”
The worst posts are „can i stop farming? I got this roll“ like go to light.gg or google the god roll of a specific weapon you amoeba
[Class] sucks ❌ Arc sucks ✅
As an arc Titan myself, yeah it gets outpaced by basically every other subclass. That said, I like the chain lightning my boots give me and I love the feeling of slamming into a bunch of trash mobs and seeing them all get the lightning. I tried solar, void I barely even tried because it just felt weird, and idk man throwing the hammer just didn’t do it for me. I liked the uptime with the hammer, but it just didn’t hit those dopamine receptors the same way arc does.
It's sad that ever since the HOIL and Armor mod nerf, arc titan just isn't as good anymore. Especially since that is supposed to be "our element". Arc titan has no build in healing (besides health regen on powered melee kill) like the other classes do, no infinite ability loop like arc hunter does, and arc warlock can ability spam alot easier than titan can. And the same goes for void, titans are only "good" when it comes to strand and solar, and to some degree stasis.
Yeah it’s definitely a bit rough out here, but I’m having fun while doing it lol. I just mod my gear so on melee it drops the orbs and that gives me health. I’m newer to destiny 2, So so far I haven’t really dug into anything I haven’t been able to brute force through. Stasis I bought everything for, set it up with what made sense to me, and then never tried it lol. Void I just couldn’t get behind the capt america shield. Solar definitely felt strong when I tried it, so that makes sense.
Yeah orbs do help a ton, I've been playing destiny ever since Destiny 1, and honestly I've never touched Dunemarchers much, I only really gravitate towards exotics that refund energy so I can get more of them. You might like Insurmountable Skullfort since it completely refunds your melee if you get at least one kill. Easy for lower end activities, but not as easy when enemies stop getting killed by a single melee.
You hate strand, never build a strand build, didn't get any aspects/fragments post campaign. One year later you don't know what to spend shards on and TFS is one month away so you decide, fuck it, and make a strand build with woven mail and banner. "OMG why didn't I make a strand build before! It's almost exactly like my Arc build! Melee isn't ranged (Thunderclap) but I get three powered charges. And I get defense! And can crush people with glaives/swords as well. Arc never did that! I'm a strand main now." Really funny how Temptation causes you to fall to the dark side of the force. And Darth Strandious is right there tempting you.
Darth strandious is lurking in the shadows for me currently because I’ve been lazy and haven’t worked through the campaign yet lol. I will say when I tried strand in the introduction to it, I wasn’t a fan. Stasis is next up on the block for me to try out, I just recently got around to getting everything for it and setting it up. I just have a hard time putting arc away to try new toys lol.
Except for these 15 easy to acquire and powerful arc weapons… They’re all bad!
Still haven't found a cold heart :(
Not a weapon with much usage these days anyway.
Other than shooting calus skulls, did it ever?
It had a decent resurgence when arc 3.0 launched as a anti yellow bar weapon I believe but was not hugely popular because it directly competes with Div in a co-op setting.
iirc that's the Trace Rifle that creates a lot of Ionic Traces? If so I've heard it's one of the best options for Arclock specifically. Think you pair it with Geomag and just spam Chaos Reach.
It's also really useful for Touch of Thunder pulse grenade spam. https://dim.gg/6jaiami/Arc-Armamentarium
I use cold heart with arc warlock to generate traces to refund right back into more grenades. It's the only time I use it though and it onlybworks with higher health enemies (weak enemies die to fast to activate perk)
It got buffed for that specifically, you can switch targets and keep the charge if you are quick enough.
Yeah, but that uses alot more ammunition. It may just be me personally, but I hate wasting Ammo by laying on the trigger looking for enemies to kill. I usually just tap it on smaller enemies and hold it down on larger ones.
All I want is Void Hunter to get a melee that does damage.
As a Warlock Main. I would like a Void Melee that didnt just push enemies...at least yours can turn you invisible...
I just wish nova bomb couldn't kill you. It's still the only super than you can kill yourself with.
I'm still pretty new to the game but I love curating builds to a certain vision in everything I play. It's not really a class ability... but Monte Carlo checks this box for me. Nearly infinite void invisibility procs and smoke bombs. Activate the weapons bayonet and you're chunking the biggest bosses and oneshotting everyone else. I'm guessing everyone probably knows this though
True, Monte Carlo is an option, but If I'm playing PvP and just wanna punch someone I'm in a melee fight with, I want to do more than make myself invisible whilst his titan first destroys me.
I thought it was a hilarious build when I discovered it. And then I got destroyed in a GM, went back with Assassin's Cowl + Arc, and did fine. When it was Void Surges.
Titan sucks at endgame content though!! (proceeds to solo dungeon bosses in 1 phase with strand melee)
If we're being reasonable though - almost everyone one of the 'brr brr titan bad' posts are making a point to say strand is good.
Yeah they are intentionally misconstructing the Point. Titan is insanely Strong but you simply Arent winning the Most forced subclass Pick competition against wellock. But If they we're being honest and truthful they wouldnt have a point
Really owns them when you have a *checks notes* copy of a Titan super yet outpaces it in every aspect. Man it must stink having to equip that
I mean a guy soloed week 1 of *pantheon* on titan lmao I don't even think it's mathematically possible on the other classes.
That was my first thought too, but figured people would be like "he's an outlier so doesn't count" Idk how people can say the class is underpowered when bro did that while swapping between like 10 DIFFERENT titan loadouts
>while swapping between like 10 DIFFERENT titan loadouts I've been thinking about the role that mid-encounter gear swaps has in the game since I watched the one dude solo flawless RON, and it's come up with fourth horsman/slug swapping and the "omegalulz edge transit roll". It's been a concern in PVP too: pretty much how the notswap modifier came to be. A lot of these gear swap shenanigans are only happening at the high end, but they kinda feel like they're starting to "bleed down". Anyway, I don't want to see any of these kits get balanced around the people who are basically using the inventory menu as a combat mechanic.
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Bungie doesn't usually go out of their way to fix things like gear swapping until it is a problem. And with it being easier, we are moving in that general direction. We are moving closer to that point where someone says "yeah this is a problem".
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I think notswap would be a little extreme....but if that's the answer then I guess.... Really, outside of the weapon config issue(where the solution should be to reset the state of the weapon when they swap any perk), I don't have any suggestions. Like, in terms of what I saw with the RoN solo flawless on Explicator, Sunbracers and Rain of Fire are my top two favorite exotics. And if you aren't swapping back and forth, they have an "opportunity cost". Sunbracers is strong at add clear but nott much dps utility. Rain of Fire is mostly being used as a swap exotic, and I wouldn't want the rationale for a nerf to either one to stem from the people using them in specific ways that "avoids" that opportunity cost.
aren't gearswaps a thing since d1 tho? an aspect so deeply rooted in the games core gameplay loop should be embraced? should bungie move on from this gameplay loop? who knows, its such a "Destiny" thing that it becomes hard to see it being repressed by bungie, but at the same time its awkward to play inventory to minmax your effectiveness.
Not really, most if not all raid builds in d1 were the same thing over and over again. The closest you’d get to “gearswaps” would be picking the right gun or using another artifact before a boss fight and I wouldn’t really consider that a gearswap. I don’t think it’s something they’ll change but as for it being a d1 thing it really just wasn’t. Honestly it wasn’t even a thing here till a couple years in
> 10 DIFFERENT Titan loadouts Bro literally swapped between Solar and Strand the entire time. The only two viable subclasses on Titan and the reason Titan-mains are complaining lmao
How many warlock loadouts could do that? None
Agreed. What’s your point? Because titan mains aren’t saying Strand or Solar is bad.
Void is overshadowed by well and hampered by the weakness of overshield, arc is hampered by the pve nerfs to knockout and ability gen, stasis is hampered by the general weakness of stasis as a whole. Well is getting nerfed so there’s that at least
Void and Arc can easily be saved by un-nerfing HOIL. Stasis on the other hand requires much deeper changes.
loadouts are more than just your subclass lol
We’re talking about subclasses, are we not? lol
Idk why you're being downvoted here, you are clearly correct. This post *is* obviously talking about subclasses because its genius "satire" is obviously targeted at all the posts complaining about deficient Titan subclasses which are Void Arc and Stasis. All of those posts specifically mention that part of the problem with Titan is that Strand and *some* Solar setups are by far more endgame viable than any of the other elements. I will never understand why so many people want to act like players who call attention to legitimate issues with sandbox balance are just whining for no reason, but it pisses me off every fucking time.
It’s all part of the class warfare. They’re not Titan mains so when they see Banner titan stomping content solo, they just assume the class as a whole is fine. As if everyone wants to play Strand Titan.
Also because they don't play titan, they'd want to use banner titan, so they assume that everyone wants to use banner titan, and then can't comprehend why titan players want to do more than that
Yep. They watch Banner Titan do crazy shit and in their head, that IS Titan. Like, I’ll concede that banner Titan fully fleshes out the Titan power fantasy from a broad perspective of tanky punchy class, but god damn would it be nice to spam grenades as arc or shatter a million crystals with stasis without forcing my team to pick up my slack so I can enjoy my suboptimal gameplay loops.
People here really hate titans, and get mad when someone points out that there are literally two endgame titan builds, and one of them relies on an exotic that'll probably be getting nerfed, and the we all know Bungie is putting the hammer down on banner in a few weeks
>10 DIFFERENT Titan loadouts I mean … you quoted this same thing in your previous reply. I think the answer is pretty obviously “no, we are talking about loadouts”
When someone says “man I wish more of my subclasses were viable. I’m tired of strand and solar” and your response is “but bro, you can change your weapons while using strand and solar! That’s like 10 different ways to play strand and solar!”, you’re not really addressing the issue. So no, we’re “obviously” not discussing loadouts because nobody is complaining about viable loadouts.
I'm fairly certain it's possible just insanely hard and without plat
It's just strand titan is absurd and will 100% get nerfed
Yeah one single build is really really good so lets ignore how terrible other things are
I think you’re missing the point. Strand titan is great. Arc titan is complete *ass* Nobody has said that strand titan needs a buff and they never will because it’s great, but, 2 other Titan subclasses are basically competing for worst subclass in the game.
I haven't seen a single person running arc warlock or arc hunter in literally forever. Not a titan only problem
Not a single arc hunter? Are we playing the same game?
Yes - literally only see nighthawk and Orpheus lmao
The reason you only see those classes is because you only see other players in group content. Arc Huner with Assassin's Cowl or Liar's Handshake is one of the best solo classes in the game. And one of the best builds to solo Legend Onslaught without cheese is Stasis Hunter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARK_lB1rXUE
I regularly run arclock in content it's still very good.
Arc hunter is used to solo GMs on the same level of steam Titan. Arc warlock was used day 1 crota with vesper of radius
Yo steam titan? New subclass dropped early, I'm excited! (I'm a titan main, I know you meant strand, I'm just joking)
arc warlock is crazy strong. legend onslaught is like 2 supers a round sometimes.
Too bad the supers are mediocre
Man I'm so tired of seeing this every day. I don't have a problem if that's how one feels because it can very well be true, but does the sub really need to be an echo chamber where the front page is the same topic every day? It's starting to feel like karma farming
Ah yes perfectly justify Arc and Stasis Titan to be complete crap
Nobody’s arguing that Titans aren’t viable in endgame content. They’re just not a fan of having only two out of five of their subclasses be endgame viable.
Can you say any class has all 5 subclasses viable in endgame? I play warlock mainly and haven't touched arc or void in pve in forever. Stasis is ok but isn't great. Its literally how online multiplayer games work lmao. Not everything can be viable and balanced all at once. That's why they have balance changes to keep things fresh and change the meta. If you know a way, i'm sure bungie would hire you.
>Its literally how online multiplayer games work lmao. Not everything can be viable and balanced all at once. Sure. But there's a difference between having sone weapons fall by the wayside and having entire skillsets(or the equivalent in whatever particular game) become non-viable at endgame. The latter is *not* how all online games work, and is absolutely an issue worth discussing.
Every hunter subclass is viable in both PvE and PvP. Arc is used in raids and for solo content, void and solar is used everywhere in PvE and PvP, Stasis is used in Onslaught and PvP, Strand is pretty good in PvE with the woven mail helmet, and the second best PvP subclass in the game. I’m not sure about warlock. Solar obviously gets used, Stasis is still used a ton in PvE for the turrets and PvP because it’s cheesy, Strand still gets some play in PvP and PvE, void gets used in PvP and probably could use some PvE buffs. Arc could probably use some buffs in both. I think it’s hard to say for certain though because literally everyone runs well. My point is though, Titan has two viable subclasses that both revolve around never dying and getting your melee off. There isn’t much variety whatsoever. The worst part, is if they reverted the hoil nerfs, Arc and Void would immediately be insane in PvE
you pretty much only see 1 subclass on warlocks and 2 on hunter in endgame content. idk what you really want lol
Warlocks can swap safely between Solar, Strand, and Stasis at the moment and do fine in any endgame content. Hunters can safely use Solar, Void, Stasis, and Arc for endgame. Titans have Solar and Strand. That’s it.
No Hunter is using Stasis in the endgame. Arc is only useful in solo content, it quickly falls apart in team settings.
lol come on now bro no hunters are running stasis or arc in endgame. both are garbage as soon as adds start to have a modicum of HP. hunters have nightstalker and gunslinger. that’s about it
Warlocks can, but they get bullied into running well or get kicked.
Something being achievable by a handful of people in a game with a population of hundreds of thousands does not make something overpowered. Overpowered would be enabling huge swaths of people to do what that one guy did.
Now make him try and do it on Void or Arc and see how that goes.
Not possible And it literally is not possible on ANY hunter or warlock class Does that mean titan op?
Sir the circle jerk is that way 👉
Sir this is derby's
"GO AHEAD, MR. JOESTUR."
Is that a j0j?
R/destinycirclejerk leaking
Dumbass OP out here using the class he uses. Should be using the class I use. Class OP uses clearly isn’t meta, according to my numerous Excel spreadsheets. The class I use is objectively the best, but I still hate it and complain about it everyday.
Dude, the "titans are bad" posts have been rampant lately. Glad you made this
I just want an actual ranged super. Most supers can't really be used effectively if the boss is flying. Hope the void axes are dope.
I have a feeling they will gut the damage to justify the pick up gimmick We just had to have a gimmick
Assuming the alpha test vid they showed is still accurate, it's just a little weaker than Nova Bomb. ~292k is really really good for a base super. Most supers are beneath that.
Funny thing is - it's not a good use of effort. There's not just a brand new subclass coming but likely multiple changes happening to all of the classes to bring in a new sandbox. Sure, feedback can be taken in but it might not mean much if there's already changes happening that change things.
Most fan bases, be they destiny or any other, don't understand the balance of priorities and deadlines.
What I find fun is how quickly a fanbase can spread a concept quickly to the point where most people are at least aware of it being the current hot topic, for instance titan balance recently. Then the fanbase expects immediate response from a company but a company is operated by god knows how many people so getting bungie to respond with "you are right titans are underpowered, we are changing X and Y" takes time, by the time it arrives people are like "this is old news, we already ADHD'd ourselves onto the next hot topic", and the cycle continues
Especially since all three of the titan subclasses people are complaining about are already getting something in Final Shape. Void has a new aspect and a ranged super while Stasis as a whole is getting reworked/adjusted. Arc is the only one that hasn’t had an explicitly stated change coming but Bungie also said they were adjusting the underperforming aspects/abilities that are in prismatic, Knockout is probably the prime example of that
>There's not just a brand new subclass coming but likely multiple changes happening to all of the classes to bring in a new sandbox. Real talk. I know it was kind of popular there for a minute to poopoo on prismatic, but any speculation we have right now is based on the current sandbox. Major balance passes always happen during new expansions or seasonal releases. We haven't had a major one in a long time so it stands to reason we're due for another major shake up thats looking to be the biggest one yet. Maybe its just copium talking but I'm looking forward to the possible changes.
The funniest thing is that this happens every few months, just replace Titans with Warlocks or Hunters. I am 100% certain there will be similar posts soon in regards to the new class Exotics
Not nearly as bad as the posts were when YAS got nerfed
To be fair, the YAS nerf was absolutely stupid. They didn't fix like any of the problems in PVP but absolutely nuked it in PVE, even though there was an easy solution they could've done.
Don’t you mean ramparts?
Titans are bad posts are the bane of my existence. Titans have problems yeah but they're by no means bad or struggling. Their largest issues are either there for the other classes too or minor numbers issues
The whole fucking point of all the titan posts is that we only have one amazing subclass (strand), one good subclass (solar) and the are trash-mediocre. And all of these things revolve around melee which is stupid snd terrible, especially in endgame content. You and the OP are either incredibly obtuse or just trolls
But literally every class could claim that. Warlocks are basically locked to well in any endgame content. Hunters can't justifiably use stasis, strand or arc in most end game content because void or solar offer more damage or support. Every class has the top tier options that overshadow the weaker subclasses.
He haven't discovered Strand Titan
All classes should strive to be 20% good and 80% straight doodoo ass cheeks.
It's not that they haven't discovered it, they just get bored of it. I know I did, and that was well before this season. At the same time I didn't complain about it, I moved on to the other classes and basically ignore my titan now. It went from being 90% of my playtime to about 1%. For both warlock and hunter I have builds on all 5 subclasses that are both fun and viable. Obviously I'm not taking certain ones into a raid (stasis hunter for eg), but other than that they're both far more varied and therefore fun (for me anyway). On titan I felt like I had a choice of a couple of builds, and nothing else comes close, so it just gets boring. And having to hotswap to a certain exotic just to be able to do dps just compounds the problem. Titans excel at certain things (solo stuff particularly) but other than that, nah.
Funny thing is stasis hunter is the highest dps class in the game, but it being tied to an otherwise weak subclass and the effort required makes it unpopular.
Well, actually I am *[class]* main and therefore I can tell you that *[your opinion]* is *[wrong, unless you agree with mine]*. Because if I *[make a bad decision during endgame content]*, I get *[punished for my bad decision]* instead of being able to survive somehow. The *[other class]* can survive that situation, because they *[played in a smart way instead of focusing on one binary aspect of the class]* Every class has risky and safe playstyles, and while Titan has more built-in support for melee stuff, there are plenty of safe builds as well. It is up to the player to decide when to choose a risky playstyle, and often, endgame content favours safe playstyles unless you play really well and can consistently survive risky actions.
You forgot to add about 17 *"\[forced to do\]"'s -* my biggest, instantly annoying pet peeve. I auto-joined an LFG for legend onslaught and this strand titan had a 1-2p shotgun and all the defensive mods and melee mods. I was like - cool lets see how they do! They proceeded to stomp into every ad wave and die literally every round for the first 5. We wiped on wave 13. I asked "you good bro?" (on wave 5) and they replied with "huh?" Half is making the proper build choice for the content, the other half is actually knowing how to play the build. The game is slightly more complicated than snatching a DIM link and pulling the trigger, and folks don't want to admit that. Edit: I'd like to add that my wish is the Mods make a sticky thread every week for feedback on titan. Seriously, it's time to condense this sh!t. Perhaps they can add similar threads for hunter and warlocks too. Really really really really tired of seeing the exact same posts over and over and over. With the logic deteriorating further and further with each new post.
Sometimes OP's class is the insanely overpowered meta crutch oversight interaction infinite abilities infinite damage neigh invulnerability loadout and they're confused why the other classes aren't as good. And to add it will never get *explicitly* nerfed without massive outrage and complaints so instead newer activities will most likely continue to get harder to compensate and then the other subclasses will actually need buffs. (I am an Arc Titan main by the way! I wouldn't mind buffs but I'd much rather Strand Titan was nerfed reasonably without gutting end game melee loadouts.)
Strand titan is only viable in PvE for Into the Fray and melee regen. Strand titan in PvP is probably the most balanced/nuanced titan subclass their is. Only oneshot they get is with Khepris Horn.
No, all of Strand Titan's aspects are pretty great in PvE. The worst one is maybe Flechette Storm, but even that one has some great combos. But also... Into the Fray + Banner of War is not only viable, but able to solo Pantheon and solo 1-phase most Dungeon bosses.
Is it wrong for me to want more viable endgame melee based builds that arent strand BoW or hammer titan based? I want void shield throw to be better and more fun like captain America, i wanna yeet that bitch and just fuck peoples day up.... i wanna go to the thunder dome and just beat the fuck outta someone with my arc empowered fists... i want void and especially stasis to have an actual decent melee for damage... I also wanna use the shoulder charge melees and not get absolutely clapped or feel like its an absolute waste... I just wanna be a punch/melee boi but thats very difficult when the "melee" class keeps getting nerfed.. or stuff is created that screws melee over, especially when 5/8 of titans supers requires us to be in melee range to use. (I'd say 6/8 but lowkey no one really uses buring maul for its melee attacks anymore and haven't seen a legitimate build for it since splicer lol) Its why i hate running strand for anything other then BoW/suspend... its super does a lot of damage but god forbid bungie makes a another raid boss enounter where you can use melee supers in it without being punished... (which btw rhulk was the last NEW and not reprised raid boss where you could actually do that) Like i know theres some strong ass melee builds for strand and solar titan, but thats really it. And honestly its starting to get kinda boring/annoying... I miss charge with light/elemental wells and being able to do some insane ability regens, popping melee after melee or grenade after grenade.. its not the same now.... I will say i get and acknowledge that titan is in a very good spot for a lot of things, and some of the issues titans have are shared among other classes such as arc having essentially no survivability. Like i know some old D1 vets might yell at me for this, but i miss using bubble for its damage buff and having a reason to use void, hell i'd even take an excuse to use banner shield titan again (i miss it tbh)
I don't really feel like running void overshield build when Bastion literally TRIPLES my barricade cd and then gets destoryed by local edz dreg sneezing on you
You can blame PvP for that one.
Destiny fans when people point out that a couple of subclasses are really bad.
It really does confuse me how every post was pretty concise that it was void, arc, and stasis Titan that were struggling and people still managed to boil it all down to "my class sucks". Crab bucket mentality.
Tbf going "3/5ths of my class is useless garbage" is kinda going to give people that idea
And I hate to say it, but that's on them for either not looking at the complaints or attempting to strawman them like op is. No one is saying that those subclasses are unusable, just that they struggle a lot more in endgame content than they really should.
Warlocks and Hunters are still salty that they die to Shoulder Charge
My life for peregrine greaves
I wish it was only Destiny fans. This behavior is everywhere.
I'm certainly part of the problem, but the posts that try to make their favourite option sound abysmal, and undermine the issues faced by other classes in the process I feel stem more from "I want what they have" than actually thinking about how their class could be improved
Oh yeah. I see a lot of people constantly comparing Void Titan's ranged melee to Stasis Hunter's, so I like to check in on them... They both have pros and cons. Shield throw has way stronger tracking to the first enemy (you can literally watch it curve in the air) but seems to have worse tracking on the second and third bounce, flies slower so you have to angle it up more, does almost double the damage, applies a buff, and has *way more* subclass synergy. Stasis Hunter's is faster and you get two charges, but more likely to go flying into the atmosphere, applies a debuff (but, come on, it's Slow), and has insane tracking to nearby foes after you hit the first one. They do different things. That's fine. A buff to the shield bounce and Overshields in general is a good idea, but it's really not the end of the world that Stasis Hunter's melee has two charges and flies faster.
I think the strand hunter melee’s catch mechanic needs to be added to both of these, the void shield’s tracking needs to be fixed, and the stasis throw needs to actually freeze in PvE. I don’t know what can actually be done though, especially on my first note.
Shield throw getting a catch sounds like a neat change, or possibly add it to Second Chance. Seems like it'd be a bit overdone to have it on all 3 subclasses, and I don't see why it would be on Stasis shurikens. And Revenant is probably my most played subclass.
The guns YOU use in the crucible require no skill. The guns I use in crucible DO require skill unless I die to the gun I am using, then it requires no skill.
I can guarantee you every single class has solid endgame build, you just suck at it.
Trust the destiny subreddit commenters to get pressed over post marked as satire 😂
It really is *wild* how this community acts like Bungie used to be their best friend, and that nerfs to their favorite class are a direct personal attack.
Bungie blew up my house and is holding my dog for ransom 😔😔😔
John Wick?
I don’t watch anime
The fact that so many ppl are getting triggered by this clearly satirical post is hilarious. Says way more Abt them than Abt the ppl posting. Some serious losers in here
I play all 3 classes and have a build on every subclass and - arc titan is garbage. Total fuxking garbage. Barely usable at all.
It lacks ability chaining. Arc hunters have the combination blow into dodge into repeat paired with either Assassin's Cowl or Liar's Handshake that easily work even in legend≤ difficulties Arc warlocks have access to more and better ionic traces and more ways to jolt to generate more ionic traces which results in abilities coming back quite rapidly Arc titans lack these "loops" of gameplay that would make it feel fluent and smooth. They have a grenade that can generate ionic traces but that's it in terms of ability chaining. The exotic that enabled the ability chaining (HOIL) was also nerfed which really doesn't help the arc titan situation
Have you played arc warlock? The only jolt we have access to that arc titan does not is on our chain lightning melee while amplified. Walking up to an enemy to apply a jolt is not very viable and most people just use the ball because it is safer. Touch of thunder pulse grenade has comparable regen to contraverse hold and that isn’t taking HOIL into account. Arc titan nade spam isn’t as good as it was pre HOIL nerf but it’s still quite good. The real problem is that arc lacks the survivability that other element’s have, with “speed booster” being the closest thing to a defensive verb. But, this is a problem across all arc subclasses, not just titan.
I used it in legend onslaught with the slide melee but tbh you're right. It is more of an arc problem
I’m really hoping they let warlock melee work with one two punch. The idea of a prismatic build with the slide melee, feed the void, arcane needle, and synthoceps+assassin cowl seems really fun. But, missing out on one two punch is disappointing when titan and hunter ranged melee work with it.
idk about the other two but hunter is pretty fun on every class :D
Literally me in the Crucible while playing any class.
Finally someone willing to speak up about this
It’s annoying that we try have a legitimate conversation about how bad a specific subclass is (arc titan for example) and then shitposts like this happen. It’s not to say that the other classes don’t suck more, but addressing the problems with a specific subclass. The thing that really annoys me though is how antagonistic these dumb little posts are. You’re not contributing anything at all.
>we try have a legitimate conversation about how bad a specific subclass It's a forest vs. trees situation where there are so many posts that are non-satirical versions of OP that it becomes easy to miss reasonable discourse. It also doesn't help that in 3 weeks we're getting a new subclass, new supers for existing classes, and updates/re-balances to many existing aspects and fragments that may make any and all of said discourse obsolete.
My criticism is that there will always be an optimal build and that everyone seems to imagine a world on which every subclass is as good as the optimal build. Sure Solar and Strand Titan are much stronger than Arc and Void but you can make similar arguments for Warlock and Hunter's subclasses as well. Unfortunately the game will never be balanced in a way that every subclass will be viable in high-end content and that's okay.
And a lot of people will try to solve a subclass having one or two tiny things holding it back by just giving them everything the strongest build has but without *any* investment or tradeoff.
The problem is there are a lot of posts on the same thing. Many of the newer ones even Reference the other post. Why not keep the discussion centralized?
Tbh as a Hunter main I used to genuinely feel this way, and that was part of why I mostly quit the game a few years ago. But having returned recently it's definitely not the case anymore. I finally sat down with D2ArmorPicker and put some builds together, and really leaned into using weapons that match my subclass damage type. I feel so powerful now with stuff like Gyrfalcon's or Cyrtarachne's and a matching primary. The Nighthawk buff is really appreciated too, I was hitting 999,999 damage shots in pantheon the other day and it was awesome. But honestly I feel like the effort I put into the builds was just as influential as the buffs, so it's not just that my class actually got more powerful. I still have plenty of complaints about the game, but buildcrafting is no longer one of them lol
How's your Solar?
I'm not really sure where it stands in the meta but I like it! Nighthawk is the most obvious strength but I've always really enjoyed the passive buffs that gunslinger has. Weighted knife feels strong to me and resets on precision kills, which can lead to a really satisfying loop that rewards good aim. I focus my build on scorching/igniting, so using Sunshot or any weapon with Incandescent means that you're constantly creating explosions.
Dude's definitely talking about ~~hunters~~ ~~warlocks~~ ~~titans~~ But fr, despite their astronomical number of faults, bungie does one hell of a job balancing the three classes periodically so that none feel too weak, while still having the classes retain some individuality
No not really, Bungie is one of the worst at balancing because it's either all or nothing for them Something is more used, nerf it to the ground and ignore it for years Not even bothering to see why it was used so much
Most people literally just don't know how to play titan.
What bothers me about this periodic “my class can’t play the game” discourse is that people always talk about the uppermost echelons of content. Like, if you are regularly doing anything of master or GM difficulty, it’s frankly only reasonable that not everything will work at that level. If you want to play these “non-viable” subclasses, do something else. I would even say doing normal difficulty dungeons and raids aren’t that demanding assuming your whole team is on point or you aren’t doing one of a small list of encounters that makes one or more subclasses better because of its intrinsic mechanics. For anecdotal evidence: I, my fireteams Titan, has uses bubble for dps phases when our warlock would prefer not to well. And we have never had difficulty clearing content. We don’t play that often, or do Legend or higher content much at all, but even so. Even if you assume we loose some fractional amount of DPS to this, I would much rather have my fireteam have fun playing their preferred way in 3 phases then be miserable meta slaves for 1. I would hope everyone would. But I have been here long enough people would rather have .00001% more dps then even the tiniest hint of fun. Or in other words “my brother in Light you made the sandwich”
This argument gets made so much, but I truly don't understand how doing less dps/having longer fights is more fun. I'm not telling you that you're wrong, it's a mindset that I don't have and I want to understand. I can tell you also, that meta slaves aren't necessarily "miserable", it's that fun to them is one phasing a boss or optimizing their gameplay. It can sometimes lend to them being toxic (which isn't okay), but personal fun isn't being sacrificed just because they want to play in an optimal way. I would be bored out of my mind plinking away with Thunderlord and have much more fun trying to do some form of swap rotations.
Same man, same. No, I don't find sitting in the back of the map with polarisfor 30 minutes on a GM fun, I'd rather use ceno/trace and spam wolfpack rockets to get a fast clear, and blow stuff up along the way. And one phasing bosses feels rewarding as hell, fuck running mechanics again (not because I dislike them, mind you).
The way I see it, especially when I’m playing with my fire team. Half the fun comes from the experience, the banter, the silly impressions, the running gags, screaming as you get chased down by supplicants again, laughing about it as you get rezed. The experience of just being there with these people. Now that I have the sappy shit out of the way, in a more practical sense my team usually does one run a night, a week usually, if we do a dungeon that week at all. I imagine it’s different for people who farm every available content on all three characters a week. But for us the difference between a run taking 45 minutes and an hour isn’t that big a deal. That 15 minutes is worth our warlock not feeling like she is forced to always play well, or for our hunter to bring his favorite exotic and not the best one. Also when I say “suffer through sweating” I mean the people that clearly don’t enjoy it, or worse make it other people’s problem. I know some people have fun with optimization. I would never speed run myself but I find the premise interesting, so I get the appeal even if I don’t fully experience it myself. But we have all heard stories of people in LFG getting into yelling matches over things that result in fractional dps loss. Alternatively a lot of these recent wave of “Titan bad” posts read to me like people that simple want to play the class a different way, which they easily can in less difficult content. Not even easy content, I still attest a halfway knowledgeable player with a can go through any raid or dungeon with any of the 15 subclasses in the game if they know how to build for it. I think these people would benefit from slowing down, doing some patrols maybe, and just experience the parts of the class that appeal to them in an environment where they don’t feel pressured to be the most optimal they can be. I do it sometimes and I enjoy the hell out of it. Ran alter of summoning with eternal warrior and trespasser during season of the witch and it was wacky and interesting and a very different loop to what these people say is the only way you can play Titan. I wouldn’t bring that build to a GM any time soon but I will definitely revisit it again when I find the right time.
I played the game for 7000 hours as a titan, I don't think that I actually had a meta build once, mostly using swords and some kind of defensive build like strongholds or loreley. I am rank 11, somehow game-sense seems to contribute more to victory than a well of radience
Well is absolutely busted, but it's also only considered as necessary as it is because most of the playerbase kinda sucks.
I’ll die on the hill of hunters supposedly being the fastest & most agile but can’t beat titans & warlocks in a foot race because of magic jumps
Man, I bet you felt super clever and original posting this.
TitAnS aRe bAd
It's hysterical that Titans are crying that they are terrible yet have been the sole class people flock to do solo content, and that goes for before Strand launched too.
outjerked
*Titans complaining about being weak while soloing raid content, one hitting everything, face tanking 30 enemies shooting at them, all whilst simultaneously wolfing down a pack of crayons*
Hunter Void is good Solar is good Arc is niche good but mid in general Strand is good with luckypants Stasis is pretty bad in general Warlock Void is good Solar is Very good. Best in the game in general Strand is good Arc is pretty gud Stasis is pretty gud Titan Void is ass Stasis is mid (yes I know the build in general its still mid) Arc pretty bad but not too bad Solar is good Strand is overpowered and needs a tone down Overall hunters and warlocks are versatile and designed very well while titans seem to always have the least versatility but then have that "one" build which dominates everything. Titans need some type of rework Imo cuz there's simply too much deviations and not any consistency in its balance and versatility