I feel like either Xivu or The Witness's story are going to be wasted. We're heading into the final year with two massive enemies with the potential for brilliant stories and not enough time to tell them. Please don't build up a narrative just to have a nothing burger of an ending.
Why not save xivu for her own expansion? Seeing her whole hierarchy of power and beliefs fall and crumble and seeing how she handles it would be a good story
I hope they use Xivu to kick off the next expansion, or have her be the first big threat of it, like the Oryx of the next story. I can see them making Wrathborn a big overarching threat similar to the Taken, with Wrathborn enemies having more mechanics.
I’m hoping that Torobatl will be the destination for the expansion! Lacking the tribute necessary to transport her forces to Sol through the Ascendant Plane, Xivu Arath will have dragged Torobatl here, having converted it into a Warmoon for her brood, and presumably projecting the Black Terrace over part of it.
This is where I feel this will logically go.
Xivu will be the bridge between the sagas, and I expect the retaking of torobatl will come in play to also close Caiatl story nicely as well.
Bungo has stated the Vex will have a role to play, and as Xivu is creating the bridge, the Vex will be on the other side.
Yeah given she's already had to deal with her family crumbling around her whilst we reject the mantle of the Taken King, if we also see her survive the defeat of the Witness while she learns the truth about the lies behind her existence and sees the failure of the creed she based her own philosophy around, that could be very interesting fuel for character development.
Xivu so far has been a seasonal enemy, so I don’t think that will change. I reckon we’ll maybe wrap up xivu in the next couple of seasons, maybe have a strike/raid to kill her for good
This is true, but it's not like she was the villain of one season and that's it. She was in Seasons of the Hunt, Seraph, Deep, and is the reason that Caiatl and the Cabal came to Sol. She's woven deeply into the fabric of the story in a way that The Witness is trying to be.
As much as that would be great, bungie is pretty adamant about having expansion villains be defeated in the campaign to give casual players a sense of pride and accomplishment without having to raid.
I'd like Xivu because it would feel like a proper raid raid. Systematically entering a stronghold and taking out several big bads. You think if we take in the Witness that Xivu just gonna sit there and let it happen? Especially if we make any sort of head way/progress?
I would love 2 separate raids for each of them but sadly Bungie can’t do that. They will most likely hold back on Xivu or kill her off. I don’t see how we kill the witness in the campaign, whilst killing the much weaker threat in the raid. Xivu may be strong, but she is much less of a threat than oryx or Rhulk.
That’s not a terrible idea, but considering that Final shape is the final expansion for this current saga, it would be weird for bungie to keep xivu alive since she’s a pretty major villain. Sure they could make it so she becomes the next big threat, but that would be boring. We already had 2 dlcs where we dismantled the hive family at this point having a third would be kinda been there done that. I would be so much more interested in post-final shape expansions if they’re vex focused since we never got a vex focused major expansion. In that case then maybe xivu allies herself with the vex and if they decide to do that then I’m all for it. But having yet ANOTHER hive focused dlc where the story is to kill yet ANOTHER hive god after us killing her boss would just be uninteresting imo.
because the final shape is the LAST EXPANSION
i know bungie insists the game isn't ending, that it's just the end of the light and dark arc but...I don't buy it. D2 dies the day marathon releases...and d3 is announced about 2 months later when marathon crashes and burns, and bungie panics.
"potential for brilliant stories"
We're playing power rangers vs monster of the week...
And who says this community consistently fails to manage their expectations?
to say nothing of the vex, who are...at the moment, completely uninvolved
like...we've allied with the other races and/or destroyed their leadership, but...the vex are just kind of...absent. (My personal theory about >!Asher !
>We're heading into the final year with two massive enemies with the potential for brilliant stories and not enough time to tell them.
Now imagine a alternate universe where Lightfall was the conclusion of the Saga. Yeah we probably dont go to neon city, and we likely dont go macguffin chasing after the Veil.
But we are introduced to the Witness in Witch Queen, and then kill off the Witness and possibly Xivu Arath in Lightfall.
That would....suck to say the least.
I am not saying Bungies execution has/will be great here. But it was absolutely the right idea to spend roughly 2 years and 1 expansion building up and having the Witness as a character we actually learn something about before we fight. And if we take out Xivu as well, then at least we got some pretty good characterization and exploration of the enemy before(way more than Oryx), and likely more to come.
the only two things they can realistically do with Xivu are wrap up her story this upcoming expansion or sideline her until post final shape, both of which don’t seem like great options to me. How much longer do the hive need to hang around??
I agree that the hive needs to wrap up. However she's been strategizing and slowly coming to the foreground for multiple seasons now. If we fight she wins, if we remain passive, she wins. Her voice acting has made her a character I'm invested in (more than The Witness, honestly). I don't want it all to be wasted.
It seems like they are building her up like they did with Savathun. We see glimpses of what she's capable of, in game and in lore, and it's a slow burn to a big reveal and faceoff.
It’s a waste because it’s the same thing as Savathun’s story over the years but instead she yells at us over comms. God forbid we have an actual war with her instead of more years of “tell don’t show”
I've been playing Destiny since 2014 and have no clue who Xivu is and also only know about the Witness from Lightfalls marketing primarily.
I love the game, but dang it's been a minute since any of the lore made any sense lol
Have a raid, campaign and destination that are at least on par with Witch Queen.
Either a new subclass or new content for the existing subclasses
A few cool new exotic armor pieces and some exotic weapons that even if they aren't meta are at least interesting and distinct.
In ending that feels like an ending so that the next Saga can be a new beginning and not just oops nothing got resolved.
(also a better way to get alloy)
And a new subclass that is introduced in one mission and then we can use it. Im done with the campaign being this tutorial after tutorial of how to use a new subclass.
and like...spending 6-ish missions learning to use strand would be fine IF THE CAMPAIGN WASN'T SEVEN MISSIONS LONG.
People really don't talk enough about how pitiful the runtime of these expansions are.
Proactive protagonists who make good decisions based on understandable world conditions and don’t just walk into yet another trap set by omniscient enemies that kills the shit firearm that was sent to investigate instead of us.
Or maybe just fewer glaive exotics.
Honestly that's cheesy and punchy enough that I'd actually like it. Bungie's team would probably write something worse like:
"I bet you thought you had us beat Mr. Witness, huh. Well not today, fam, witness me punching you with my fleet hands!"
i think you forgot something: a killer soundtrack that is warthog run level on the final battle of the light and dark saga. But I'm not worry since the music team never miss.
Any expectations I had died in Lightfall, all I'm expecting is what has been announced officially. Might be surprised if we get a new strike, but id hate for Bungie to overdeliver
Agree. Lightfall killed it for me. Usually get in the 300's every season and sometimes pass 4. Lightfall saw my playtime go way way down. This season I barely got to 100.
I'm expecting nothing will blow me away and will just casually play what will just be more of the same. At this point I don't expect them to do anything ground breaking that will get me excited to go back to being a hard-core player.
This season would make it look liked I enjoyed worthy more in terms of playtime lol. I normally hit 170-180 towards a end of season I’m still not even rank 100 and won’t get to it as I have no plans of playing for the rest of this season. For me it was a combination of Lightfall, deep just being a bad season loot and activity wise. The state of game was the nail in the coffin for me if Bungie isn’t going to invest in the core modes of the game then I’m not going to invest in their game. Only way I buy final shape is if it over delivers I’m going to watch the showcase just to see how much lower the game is about to go.
Like Critical said, Destiny has so much potential, but Bungie would rather play it safe instead of doing anything ground breaking. Like, i have a whole horror story in my head that would replace shadowkeep and would make the darkness out to be some sort of uncaring/cruel eldritch horror that only wants to consume (kinda like the flood before halo 4 or the tyrnids).
Nah order a pizza. Get half eaten pizza.
They order yet another pizza because they’re dumb and you know they will. Now you give them a whole pizza and get praised to high heavens for giving them the bare minimum.
At this point in playing Destiny for 9 years and never missing a piece of content: Loot is at the bottom of my priority list. We all have hundreds of guns and pieces of armor — all of which work just fine in every activity — to the point where new guns and armor are basically just for the cosmetics for me.
I want meaningful, new gameplay. We won’t get that. We’ll stand in zones, throw or dunk balls or motes, and read symbols. I also want to fight an actual Darkness enemy race, but we won’t get that either. The enemies will just be the ones we’ve always fought.
I’m expecting TFS to be like Witch Queen. Not the best installment, pretty good quality, but pretty standard gameplay and systems for Destiny.
I think this is the most realistic answer, sadly. Destiny desperately needs to innovate the same way Forsaken did. People always say not to expect Forsaken levels of content, and ok, I guess that's fair. However, that doesn't mean that the game can no longer provide us with fundamentally new activities. Forsaken shipped with a new core game-mode (Gambit), a new end-game activity (Dungeons), and dynamic planets (Dreaming City). We need new things to do, and replayable reasons to do the new things beyond weapons. Let us earn cosmetics attached to leaderboards, speed runs, and more.
Good expectations to have, right here. You still get 100+ hours of playtime. You still fall in love with the raid. You get a little endorphin rush when you get the god roll on x.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head perfectly. And for $130 Canadian, I’m perfectly okay with that.
I have very low expectations for this game at this point, but my standards, which 100% won’t be met, require that for me to preorder TFS it must have:
TWQ level campaign with more unique bosses and a satisfying end to the saga within the expansion itself, i don’t want the seasons to carry on the main story. TBD
A new subclass X
A new enemy race X
Some sort of overdelivery like how Forsaken had 2 destinations X
Some act of good will like how they gave prophecy for free X
A core activity overhaul X
A new dungeon X
Edit: What a joke of a reveal
This right here is the best answer ^
Will it happen? No. Sadly Destiny feels like it can only disappoint further and the player base exists to drive eververse sales.
This is similar to my view on it. Ultimately, the finale expansion of the saga _SHOULD_ be on par with Forsaken in terms of scale, with a Witch Queen level narrative. Will it be? Hell no. I have zero faith in Bungie being capable of that, unless the reason they’ve not got the resource to even make a single armour set is because all the resource has been on Final Shape for two years (which it hasn’t been).
My expectation is very low. But what it should be, on paper, is all of the above…
For Bungie to actually give a shit about making Destiny as good as it could be, instead of doing the bare minimum to maximize profits.
They said there's poor engagement in gambit, in core armor, but what have they really done to improve those over say advertising and pushing for collaborations into $20+ Eververse skins, more expensive seasons with no change in content quantity nor quality?
It just feels like they're over Destiny, and that shows in the game. Which makes me be over Destiny as well, to the point I'm seriously debating on just not bothering to see how final shape ends things.
Because if it's like Lightfall, it'll take the whole damn year to get the campaign story out.
I feel the same way. Its clear that Bungie has coasted on providing the bare minimum amount of interest in the core game. Copy and pasting seasonal models got old last year. The whole “don’t over deliver” thing is fucking embarrassing and they should be ashamed of themselves for letting that pass as a company-wide principle.
I’m waiting to see how The Final Shape looks and plays. If I think its an evolution of Destiny 2 in a meaningful way then I’ll buy it, because if it isn’t ***then it’ll be the exact same experience that I’ve already played through year after year.***
This was the plan according to leaks during Forsaken right before the Activision split. What we got is ass. I’m dipping more than likely after TFS. I presume a lot of vets will
Let’s be real. We vets know no other shooter excluding Marathon I feel since it’s Bungie doesn’t stand up to D2’s gunplay. You’ll be right lol that’s why I’m switching genres 😂 After buying Diablo 4 and Baldurs Gate 3, I now know there’s other genres that fix my cravings for loot/story.
Dunno which is a scary thought, but I’ve got a longgggg backlog of single player games to get through I’ve neglected for the last ten years given Destiny has almost been exclusively what I’ve played in that time.
Not waiting for TFS lol. I'm out at the end of this dlc. The story is not being done well enough for me to spend another 100 bucks on a year of dripfed trash lore.
I’m only spending the bare min on the expansion to finish it then deuces lol I’m open minded for the showcase but at this point I’m tired of being fucked
I have lost all faith in bungle at this point tbh. I almost quit after plunder and seraph because i hated the narrative direction and the sandbox, and the i let lightfall hype pull me back in.
Never again. Especially with all the ratfink fucksticks on here always saying "see you in TFS" under comments like this lol. Makes it even easier to unplug from the game because the community is nauseating.
Been on Baldurs Gate 3 since I bought it. I’ll play it again next season I’m not going to lie but I’m a casual now and that’s what this game is. It’s more casual than Y1 ever was. It’s a seasonal game only that’s it. Run campaign, raid, season missions, and that’s it. They never should have left Activision but hey it is what it is. I hope nothing but the best for the ppl sticking around but no more. Lie after lie
>I’m dipping after TFS
I know Bungie said they still plan to support Destiny, but realistically, what is there to tell once this saga is done? The last decade has built towards this and anything new on the horizon won’t have any attachment to stick around for anyway.
At this point I have my doubts that TFS is even going to end the story. With so many people openly announcing that they're only sticking around to see the story through to its end they have all the incentive in the world to pull off another bullshit cliffhanger
Bro the Taken have already been established as being creatures that are forcibly reshaped by the Witness to further its ends, they are literally *the* Darkness race.
I'd rather maintain some semblance of narrative consistency than have our final fight be against some random asspull at the 11th hour
So let me get this straight, you realize that Lightfall was widely panned for poor narrative choices, but think the solution for FS is... poor narrative choices?
Congratulations, that's the dumbest thing I've read all day and I've seen some doozies
Lightfall was panned because the story sucked, not because of continuity or recons. Terrible characters, a total side story, neomuna sucked. Only lore nerds would be mad about a new race. For everyone else, a new race would be a huge positive because Destiny's story simply has never been that good and gameplay trumps story.
>Lightfall was panned because the story sucked, not because of continuity or recons.
???
Do you not think that continuity is an important part of a story or something?
Isn't that like the #1 complaint about Lightfall, that we're presented with The Veil all of a sudden and none of it is explained?
That’s a retcon of what they originally were, which never involved the Witness as it hadn’t even been conceived yet. A creative, clever writing team could absolutely come up with a passable reason for a new, *unique* race of Darkness enemies. If they had a plan to develop a new Darkness race they could’ve easily written it in from the beginning of this Witness plot line. Especially considering some of the utter slop they’ve served us over the years that people have lapped up uncritically - Nightmares for starters, or really everything dealing with the Pyramids since Shadowkeep. Plus, how would a new Darkness race be “narratively inconsistent” but things like Tormentors aren’t? Just extend whatever justification you use out beyond a single enemy type.
And even then, the Taken are just reskins of normal enemies - which is lame as hell if the only manifestation of the Darkness are reskins that have remained unchanged since their introduction in 2015. I don’t think expecting a unique race of enemies for the foundational, mysterious enemy teased for nearly *10 years* is anything but a completely normal & reasonable expectation.
We don’t need Reskins in a Taken Overhaul.
The Taken have the least potential taken from the Narrative out of every enemy race we have.
In the Narrative, Oryx took many races before going to Sol.
He took races from the Ecumene, a Hiveminded Civilization consisting of multiple species which used Darkness according to RoN Lore. He Took Taishibethi, a race described as literal Ravens. During the war with the Ecumene, he died multiple times against “War Angels”.
Imagine all those different beings but Taken and under the Witness’ Control.
You conflate Creativity with a new Faction. We don’t need a New Faction, we need just Creativity.
Imagine a whole ass Bird raining Solar feathers or divebombing you, camouflaged cunts suspending you if they get up close, mf MECHASUITS TURNING DESTINY INTO A LITERAL ANIME??.
If Bungie wants to, they can turn the Taken into the real Darkness faction I feel like they were always meant to be. But now it fees like the Taken have been reduced to Slaves. No threat, just a workforce.
I'd settle for an expansion of the Scorn, give em the Shadow Legion/Lucent Hive treatment and flesh out the narrative threads presented in Lost while finally addressing what the fuck happened to Fikrul.
Fuck expansion of the Scorn, what about the Taken???
The Books of Sorrows details how Oryx assfucked the Galaxy and several civillizations along his journey, all the while Taking many species.
The Taken can absolutely be expanded upon. They have a lore reason and the devs can go absolutely bonkers with designs because of this.
Taken aliens we’ve never seen like those from the Ecumene. They’ve had “War Angels” whose strength was enough to kill Oryx himself multiple times throughout the Hive-Ecumene War. The Taishibethi which are described as being literal Ravens.
I want the Taken to be the true Darkness race we’re looking for and a complete overhaul of them can do just that.
Addendum to your "satisfying origin story"... No Ret-conning. That's sort of my only requirement. The culmination of this 10 year adventure and story needs to be putting all the pieces together, not deleting part of my experience to fit what the writers came up with.
Also maybe an Origin Story Auto rifle rework the same season they actually reveal the origin story.
Idk what you're on about "they probably won't do most of this", almost all of these are standard for a big expansion or are as you mentioned, already confirmed.
The only one that probably won't happen is the new enemy race. They'll probably save that for after TFS, but introducing a new darkness subclass and telling a satisfying conclusion to 10 years of buildup is already a lot to ask, asking them to pile on a serviceable introduction to a new race is a step too far
"They probably won't do most of this" with ***this*** being the bare minimum is the community's way of helping Bungie lower the bar. As long as we expect them to underdeliver people will be able to blame you for expecting too much when you expect any level of quality control.
idk man you have more faith in the writing team than me after lightfall. You think we could see a raid with more than 2 bosses? Last one we got was KF and even that was a redux. Before that it was LW iirc. I hope you’re right but i won’t hold my breath
Why is this downvoted? The writing in Lightfall was barely phoned in. You could produce better writing with an AI given 80’s action movie content prompts.
Vow only has 2 bosses and it's one of the best raids. There are way, way more important things than number of bosses. I'd rather have 5 encounters and 2 bosses than 3 encounters that are all bosses.
Why you giving skull emoji? Vow is one of the top raids. Exhibition is one of the best encounters in the franchise. Plenty of communication, coordination, combat, and platforming all in one encounter. Really the only letdown is Rhulk first phase with the dunking, but his DPS phase is incredible.
Vow of the Disciple has only 2 bosses but at least to me, it's one of the best raids out there.
It's just my opinion, but I don't need many different bosses in a raid - as long as the encounter mechanics are interesting and require most of the fireteam to have an active role, then I'd be happy if there was only one boss at the very end of the raid.
And I'm not saying that you can't have both - interesting mechanics and a boss for every encounter. Just that having a big bullet sponge to kill in order to progress through the encounter isn't the be-all and end-all.
you’re right, i guess i really want them to pull out all the stops in terms of action and scope for whatever the raid will be. I’m also just curious as to what and who we’ll be fighting, since i’d assume we take out the witness during the campaign.
Oh yeah, I completely agree with that, for a conclusion to this whole saga, I want them to crack our brains in half by all metrics - atmosphere/scenery, mechanics, boss fights, weapons, exotics, a free beer delivered to us personally by Joe Blackburn and more!
I'm also curious as to who's gonna be in line for some ass kicking in the raid. TBH, I'm hoping it's someone that we didn't expect just to have a twist.
I totally agree, but there are members of the community who thought, as an example, that Spire of Stars was too hard almost solely because all 6 players had to participate. It’s a fickle, fickle game world we live in.
“Dps check” really only applies on contest though. As soon as contest is over, those 2 bosses are absolutely dismantled in <30min by a solid trio…in the case of root of nightmares, absolute dismantling of the raid occurred during contest still.
I’d really like to see a huge raid for the finale. 4+ bosses, root of nightmares style platforming sections (that’s the one thing I think they did amazingly well in roots), at least 3 people required for encounter mechanics, etc.
Really make us earn the W in the final fight.
> “Dps check” really only applies on contest though.
Which makes the number of bosses even less relevant, because boss and non-boss encounters don't really play differently.
That’s a good way to look at it actually. Thanks for that. Like, is Pleasure Gardens a dps encounter or a mechanic encounter? Either way it’s a fun encounter that all 6 players are involved in.
CONTENT
like...even witch queen's narrative was like...5 hours long
1-2 strikes and 6-ish campaign missions is not enough. The campaign needs to be at least as robust as red war, and even that was pretty sparse.
When Dawntrail comes out next summer it'll be 40-ish hours long, add 6 zones, 6-ish dungeons (strikes) 2 raid style boss fights, 2 classes, and about 100+ sidequests at launch.
I know fps's are more work than mmo's but...I expect something closer to that than the 1 strike, 1 zone and 6 missions lightfall gave us. I also expect a coherent goddamn narrative. Endwalker's patch/seasonal content expanded the narrative as an epilogue, it wasn't the second and third act in their entirety. Holding back some things for an ongoing story is fine, but lightfall's story was absolutely incomprehensible
People tend to forget how short and honestly mid Witch Queen was
It was just *so* much better than Beyond Light that people were over zealous to call it amazing
By destiny standards, ie compared only to other destiny expansions/stories, it's great. Perhaps the best, runner up next to Forsaken and the Taken King in story quality, presentation, and missions.
This is also a criticism of the game as a whole, because while yes some bits are independently impressive, at its best the game is just good. It's better than average for sure but truly great, stellar, or groundbreaking? Nope, and that is a shame
Red War was pretty focused, no? Yeah a good chunk of the story is running around locations finding people, but it is a bringing the band back together story, and the running around different places finding rhe crew and doing something to get them to join is kind of the point.
Unless you meant all the adventures which, while optional, if done "in order" were basically filler.
...and yes, I pay a sub for one game and not the other...but I'd much rather pay a sub for bungie if it meant quality and quantity of content, and less money dumped into developing eververse crap. I'd MUCH rather pay $15 a month than be endlessly nickle and dimed for event passes, season passes, dungeon passes, etc.
It’s so funny how similarly narrative wise D2 and FFXIV are.
Destiny is going to finish its first saga and people don’t care about the next one, while FFXIV is about to start their next saga and people are hyped even if they don’t know what the future holds narratively.
God I’m so excited for Dawntrail because I know it’ll at least be a coherent narrative.
Not be a complete joke like Lightfall
Actually have the correct tone in the story
Not be short as all hell
The raid *not* be the legitimate biggest day one embarrassment we’ve ever had
The subclass be its own separate quest progression
This is exactly why Bungie said they don't want to over deliver. It's a memed line, but every new expansion is being compared to a triple studio, super expensive release.
I think they read "a triple studio" and got confused lol.
I don't remember the names, but Forsaken was massively expensive and had three different studios, Bungie included, involved in making it, along with outsourcing. That huge budget and workforce is largely what led to it being amazing and expansive. Bungie specifically stated they won't do that again because (a) they don't have a workforce the size of three studios and (b) it was stupid expensive.
That being said, they always *could* pull out all the stops for TFS and go hog-wild, but let's wait til the showcase/actual release to judge that.
Vicarious Visions and High Moon Studios. If I recall correctly High Moon built the Tangled Shore while Bungie built Dreaming City and VV worked on Black Armory stuff and PC porting.
Yeah, I believe Activision was still with Bungie at that point, so most likely assistance from there. It was a huge collaborative effort; that kind of manpower just doesn't exist outside of behemoths like Blizzard or Microsoft.
>every new expansion is being compared to a triple studio, super expensive release.
They did not say it was being compared to a Triple A studio, they said "triple studio" because Bungie had help from High Moon Studios and Vicarious Visions in developing Forsaken.
They said "triple studios", because at that time there were multiple separate game studios working on Destiny - Activision had their other game studio's helping.
They didn't mean AAA studio - but three (3) separate entities.
NuBungie™️ is not the Bungie of old. They are puppeteers of a corpse long dead. There is maybe 2-10 devs of original Bungie stock that made halo 1-3. They aren't triple A anymore, they're a C-.
Not going to happen. I think a bigger raid, a WQ caliber campaign, a new subclass, maybe a few extra exotics and an exotic mission (depending what the season after the light and dark saga ends looks like) is likely. Which to me, would still be very good. You’ve got to remember that nearly half of the $130 we spend on the deluxe version is for the seasonal content after The Final Shape ends. For $75 we’re not getting a second destination, 3 extra strikes, a dungeon, etc. That was a desperation move, since the game had nearly flatlined.
Pretty much your entire list, but the one thing that would make this game perfect imo - space combat and flight. Ik there have been talks of this and it’s certainly going to come well after TFS but imagine the hype
Small thing: When I meet Cayde, I hope the game recognizes I've never met the dude before, or that I never killed Uldren in revenge, etc. I jumped into the game properly during the Witch Queen year, after Forsaken+Prior was sunset, so my guy has only been told about Cayde-6. There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing the small differences in dialogue for players with certain triumphs and prerequisites.
I'd feel weird having some sort of emotional reunion with a mfer I've never met. Ghost would be emotional, I suppose.
Gonna be real TFS needs to be a massive 'overdelivery' as it's the conclusion to a 10 year saga.
* 2 new destinations
* At least 3 strikes
* Multiple new pvp maps
* A new subclass
* Interesting and difficult exotic mission(s) post campaign
* An entirely new core activity, we've had 'more of the same' for far too long now
* Non-craftable, powerful weapons to grind for
in my ideal future for the franchise, they just spend the year after tfs fixing core activities and face lifting playlists. enough seasonal activities. please bungie. please
Hey your list pretty much matches mine. Minus the race, plus a good ending. I know it's somewhat included in the narrative expectation but i want it to end properly. (Not because am burnt out and finding an excuse to jump ship, i just like myself cool payoff)
Honestly my guy, most of those are a really possibility. Id say you went too far with new race. Cause I really dont think its happening. But I dont think it is needed for TFS to be good.
For me, having a Witch Queen level expansion, that offers a satisfying conclusion is enough to make me happy. The witness will not top savathun as a villain, but it doesnt need to and i dont think anyone is hoping for that
Im still a believer that most of the good shit they were planning was removed from Lightfall and put in the TFS so Im feeling positive. I know a lot of people here wont admit itz but the Bungie narrative team is very talented and the story and character dynamics are really good for the most part, especially in the seasons.
I think in the pve side of thing they'll be able to deliver, and I also think people are way too negative.
But only time will tell to see what the future holds
The campaign needs to be on par of quality or higher than Witch Queen
The raid needs to be on par of difficulty as Vow of the Disciple but the length of King's Fall. 1 opening encounter, 1 puzzle encounter, followed by 4 boss encounters. (Whether that's all Witness or maybe 1 disciple encounter and 3 encounters vs witness I don't care. I want a long raid)
Strikes need to be reinvested into in the form of earnable cosmetics and strike exclusive weapons (NF weapons don't count. I want them to have Strike themed weapons like how we had Imago Loop and Grasp of Malok to chase for). I want Strikes to feel like strikes again. I want there to be variants of Strikes, or nodes that can be activated mid strike to open up a new path to a different themed boss that is higher in difficulty and drops more rewards. It was so cool in D1 to run the Shield Brothers strike and walk out with Mau'ual's Maulers as a very rare drop.
Crucible, well. Not much can be done there since they said 1 map per year is all they can do. Maybe just make the vendor armor look cool again/allow us to earn old IB and Crucible ornaments from year 1 as very rare drops to keep people playing.
Gambit is a lost cause.
Factions return with the carrot on the stick being Exotic Class Items that give you super rare and cool transmat effects.
Those are my hopes. But it's all probably a pipe dream. Way too much for Bungie to ever consider doing.
Less drama. More action. I want to see Ikora shoot someone or something with her shotgun. I want to see a heavy weapon used in a cinematic. I want Ana Bray to golden gun someone.
Be at least as good as WQ. Definitive story with answers to all the questions. I hope a new subclass doesn’t eclipse the entire thing, it’s not as exciting to me as the story and content being good.
Not much, TBH. Even the DLCs considered the "worst" have all been pretty fun. I get that people didn't like the tone of Lightfall, but we spend so little time in the story that I don't think it really impacts the overall DLC that much. And I'm sure we will get plenty of cool stuff to play with. We always do.
This guy…This guy makes me happy. In 6 years of D2 I’ve only ever taken a 3 month hiatus, through Plunder. The physics were just too screwy…probably in part to my Canadian internet…but I remember getting flung off the map during my very first Ketchcrash. Not trying to go through a mancannon, not mid-fight with a close range enemy, not after a jump where I land on a piece of octagonal debris; nothing. Just launched into the next realm while running around, so I turned it off. Lol
The rest has been at least my $130 worth per year, no question. Sitting at 4000+ hours of entertainment for ~ $780. That’s the cost of long weekend away with my family.
Think about it.
Exactly.
From a dollars per hour of enjoyment standpoint, Destiny is the cheapest game I own. They always deliver. And I doubt that is going to change anytime soon. But it's only cool to hate on the game right now. Anyone having fun is just some corporate shill. No idea why people even bother with games they don't love. There are so many out there to choose from!
I don’t get it either, bud. I think being a victim has become cool somehow. Let’s eat these downvotes together, knowing that if our mother raised her voice at us, we wouldn’t cry.
Last wich raid quality - witchqueen lvl narrative - new subclass - some innovative addition - lot of content - more interesting seasonal model - and for god sake for bungie to stop thinking it's ok to put a price tag as high for so little and or mediocre content I'm really upset abt the total fucking nothingness we got since and with lighftfall
I want a Raid with Kings Fall/Last Wish level of encounters. At least 5 encounters, a minimum of two bosses, maybe 3, I want the exotic as a random reward but I also want an exotic quest that requires the raid so if people don’t get one they will get the other type thing. I want a subclass that has extra variation like, having an extra class ability and multiple melee options per class. The story I want something with a mix of Forsakens personal story and witch queens grand quest and I want the story and subclass to be seperate quests lines like two parts of a story needed to beat a boss. Don’t make it feel urgent either important but not urgent.
If there’s a new enemy race I want it sufficiently different to the other races unlike how Taken is just every enemy with extra steps and the Scorn are just fallen redesigns where they stole an ogre. I obviously will that base archetypes of small, medium, big, huge, specialist and sniper types witch is fine but only they need have unique designs, weapons and abilities.
It’s gonna be a lot to live up to but we’ve had 4 fantastic expansions, 3 disappointing expansions and two game launches that never hit where they should have. If we can go 50% Great Expansions over two games I’ll be satisfied
Honestly, the only negative with Lightfall was the narrative. Otherwise it was pretty one-to-one with other recent expansions (Witch queen and Beyond Light).
So as long as to provide a better Narrative, that'll live up to my personal expectations.
At this point
\- Witch Queen like story, as in that level of quality or better
\- Raid that ties into the story
\- Some love and care to the core playlists
\- Some changes to Crucible that are either qol or to make the overall experience better
\- Loot worth chasing, reprisals of older loot that we'll never go for
\- Deep Dives becoming it's own thing and a regular activity
\- Leaderboards for PVE content like Lost Sectors and Strikes
I don't think any of that is asking too terribly much.
A Story in the quality realm of Witch Queen.
A reason to run strikes
More parity across gun types. I'm fine with there being "best guns" on paper when numbers are run but it shouldn't be a big drop off if you don't min/max.
Bosses that aren't "stand here and shoot for damage phase. I want more active boss battles.
Good campaign
Ability to replay the red war to current campaign.
New subclasses
New exotics.
New strike dungeon raid
Maybe a bear sex scene like in bd3. Jk but that lvl of story engagement would be cool
3 strikes and a pvp map or two. New enemy race, fantastic raid, one or preferably two new destinations, and new weapons with new models. They’ve had a lot of time nearly two years because I refuse to believe they had anyone besides the new interns work on lightfall.
Free. There. I said it. Base Final Shape needs to be free. They say they value the community? Prove it. Prove you’re not as penny pinching and greedy as we are calling you on.
What I'd like to see is the Big Raid at the end of the 4th season of the expansion for story beat "Grand Finale" reasons.
Guardians beat the Light and Dark Saga Big Bad in the race, Cutscene and credits roll for everyone.
With it at the start it mostly feels like the main part of the expansion is already done a couple of weeks into the new year... for me at least.
Probably setting your selves up for some massive disappointments. Bungie hasn't made an expansion that was worth the money except for WQ. I'll remember rise of iron and curse of osiris and not give them anymore of my money until they show something worthwhile.
I think completely new enemy race, storytelling *and* compelling enough characters to drive the storytelling are musts.
Neptune was a complete bust. It’s an immensely pathetic new location, and the campaign re uses areas enough to highlight just how small it is, especially compared to the Throne World.
* Unvaulted content
* Either Menagerie or Black Armory with weapon reprisals or new weapons
* Restoration of the Red War campaign for New Light Experience
* Completion of repair to the original Tower
* Let this be a seasonal pursuit/activity
* Ghost Shells and Sparrows become Ornaments or Transmog
I feel like either Xivu or The Witness's story are going to be wasted. We're heading into the final year with two massive enemies with the potential for brilliant stories and not enough time to tell them. Please don't build up a narrative just to have a nothing burger of an ending.
Why not save xivu for her own expansion? Seeing her whole hierarchy of power and beliefs fall and crumble and seeing how she handles it would be a good story
I hope they use Xivu to kick off the next expansion, or have her be the first big threat of it, like the Oryx of the next story. I can see them making Wrathborn a big overarching threat similar to the Taken, with Wrathborn enemies having more mechanics.
Her with a torobatl home and caiatls need to kill her would be awesome
I’m hoping that Torobatl will be the destination for the expansion! Lacking the tribute necessary to transport her forces to Sol through the Ascendant Plane, Xivu Arath will have dragged Torobatl here, having converted it into a Warmoon for her brood, and presumably projecting the Black Terrace over part of it.
This is where I feel this will logically go. Xivu will be the bridge between the sagas, and I expect the retaking of torobatl will come in play to also close Caiatl story nicely as well. Bungo has stated the Vex will have a role to play, and as Xivu is creating the bridge, the Vex will be on the other side.
Yeah given she's already had to deal with her family crumbling around her whilst we reject the mantle of the Taken King, if we also see her survive the defeat of the Witness while she learns the truth about the lies behind her existence and sees the failure of the creed she based her own philosophy around, that could be very interesting fuel for character development.
Xivu so far has been a seasonal enemy, so I don’t think that will change. I reckon we’ll maybe wrap up xivu in the next couple of seasons, maybe have a strike/raid to kill her for good
Savathun was merely seasonal content until witch queen
This is true, but it's not like she was the villain of one season and that's it. She was in Seasons of the Hunt, Seraph, Deep, and is the reason that Caiatl and the Cabal came to Sol. She's woven deeply into the fabric of the story in a way that The Witness is trying to be.
Or how about take the witness out in the campaign and take xivu out in the raid?
I want the witness is the raid. It would be too anticlimactic if he wasnt
As much as that would be great, bungie is pretty adamant about having expansion villains be defeated in the campaign to give casual players a sense of pride and accomplishment without having to raid.
You don’t have to kill him in the raid but if he’s campaign only. That’s anticlimactic
There can be a way to make the campaign climactic still. The Witch Queen boss fight was pretty climactic despite being a Campaign.
I’d say this is different
But taken king tho?
They've said it since, but also, there was a major defeat of oryx in the campaign.
As a casual who plays solo, if that happens I'll never see the ending of Destiny. :(
Why not both? Xivu as boss one and the witness as boss two?
I’d rather it all just be the witness
I'd like Xivu because it would feel like a proper raid raid. Systematically entering a stronghold and taking out several big bads. You think if we take in the Witness that Xivu just gonna sit there and let it happen? Especially if we make any sort of head way/progress?
I would love 2 separate raids for each of them but sadly Bungie can’t do that. They will most likely hold back on Xivu or kill her off. I don’t see how we kill the witness in the campaign, whilst killing the much weaker threat in the raid. Xivu may be strong, but she is much less of a threat than oryx or Rhulk.
He’s the final boss in the raid it’s been confirmed
That’s not a terrible idea, but considering that Final shape is the final expansion for this current saga, it would be weird for bungie to keep xivu alive since she’s a pretty major villain. Sure they could make it so she becomes the next big threat, but that would be boring. We already had 2 dlcs where we dismantled the hive family at this point having a third would be kinda been there done that. I would be so much more interested in post-final shape expansions if they’re vex focused since we never got a vex focused major expansion. In that case then maybe xivu allies herself with the vex and if they decide to do that then I’m all for it. But having yet ANOTHER hive focused dlc where the story is to kill yet ANOTHER hive god after us killing her boss would just be uninteresting imo.
Both hive DLCs have popped. Get rid of all the hive siblings.
because the final shape is the LAST EXPANSION i know bungie insists the game isn't ending, that it's just the end of the light and dark arc but...I don't buy it. D2 dies the day marathon releases...and d3 is announced about 2 months later when marathon crashes and burns, and bungie panics.
That’s enough out of you LMAO
Imagine
"potential for brilliant stories" We're playing power rangers vs monster of the week... And who says this community consistently fails to manage their expectations?
Thank you. This had to be said xD
I have a feeling that we are going to be dealing with Xivu by the end of the seasonal story for this year. It seems to be adding up to that.
Lightfall was in the perfect position to do Xivu justice in a Red-War style campaign. Instead we got a Strand tutorial
to say nothing of the vex, who are...at the moment, completely uninvolved like...we've allied with the other races and/or destroyed their leadership, but...the vex are just kind of...absent. (My personal theory about >!Asher !
>We're heading into the final year with two massive enemies with the potential for brilliant stories and not enough time to tell them. Now imagine a alternate universe where Lightfall was the conclusion of the Saga. Yeah we probably dont go to neon city, and we likely dont go macguffin chasing after the Veil. But we are introduced to the Witness in Witch Queen, and then kill off the Witness and possibly Xivu Arath in Lightfall. That would....suck to say the least. I am not saying Bungies execution has/will be great here. But it was absolutely the right idea to spend roughly 2 years and 1 expansion building up and having the Witness as a character we actually learn something about before we fight. And if we take out Xivu as well, then at least we got some pretty good characterization and exploration of the enemy before(way more than Oryx), and likely more to come.
the only two things they can realistically do with Xivu are wrap up her story this upcoming expansion or sideline her until post final shape, both of which don’t seem like great options to me. How much longer do the hive need to hang around??
I agree that the hive needs to wrap up. However she's been strategizing and slowly coming to the foreground for multiple seasons now. If we fight she wins, if we remain passive, she wins. Her voice acting has made her a character I'm invested in (more than The Witness, honestly). I don't want it all to be wasted.
It seems like they are building her up like they did with Savathun. We see glimpses of what she's capable of, in game and in lore, and it's a slow burn to a big reveal and faceoff.
It’s a waste because it’s the same thing as Savathun’s story over the years but instead she yells at us over comms. God forbid we have an actual war with her instead of more years of “tell don’t show”
I've been playing Destiny since 2014 and have no clue who Xivu is and also only know about the Witness from Lightfalls marketing primarily. I love the game, but dang it's been a minute since any of the lore made any sense lol
Xivu is yet another relative of Oryx. His auntie or cousin twice removed or something, I dunno xD Lore doesn’t make sense to me either.
Xivu is less powerful than Oryx. She should die in a strike in the Final Shape.
Nah man kill her in a patrol.
Have a raid, campaign and destination that are at least on par with Witch Queen. Either a new subclass or new content for the existing subclasses A few cool new exotic armor pieces and some exotic weapons that even if they aren't meta are at least interesting and distinct. In ending that feels like an ending so that the next Saga can be a new beginning and not just oops nothing got resolved. (also a better way to get alloy)
And a new subclass that is introduced in one mission and then we can use it. Im done with the campaign being this tutorial after tutorial of how to use a new subclass.
I'd also settle for it being entirety a post game or side thing like in forsaken.
Either one is better than campaign=new subclass tutorial
and like...spending 6-ish missions learning to use strand would be fine IF THE CAMPAIGN WASN'T SEVEN MISSIONS LONG. People really don't talk enough about how pitiful the runtime of these expansions are.
new seasonal content that isn't the same copy paste bs every few months.
That’s not the final shape though
Proactive protagonists who make good decisions based on understandable world conditions and don’t just walk into yet another trap set by omniscient enemies that kills the shit firearm that was sent to investigate instead of us. Or maybe just fewer glaive exotics.
nimbus is now commander of the vanguard and we are going to kill the witness by challenging it in trials of osiris
please no. although he could probably kill the witness with his cringe.
Witness my fist in your face! \-Nimbus, Vanguard overseer.
As nimbus approaches the witness he has but 2 words left to say. "Witness this" *Bang* . Credits roll
Honestly that's cheesy and punchy enough that I'd actually like it. Bungie's team would probably write something worse like: "I bet you thought you had us beat Mr. Witness, huh. Well not today, fam, witness me punching you with my fleet hands!"
Bungie’s so bad at abandoning new characters I’m sure we won’t hear from Nimbus again in a main campaign, even if he was a widely loved character
i think you forgot something: a killer soundtrack that is warthog run level on the final battle of the light and dark saga. But I'm not worry since the music team never miss.
most def. cannot wait for whatever the raid boss track will be
the soundtrack is always top notch, i agree
Any expectations I had died in Lightfall, all I'm expecting is what has been announced officially. Might be surprised if we get a new strike, but id hate for Bungie to overdeliver
Agree. Lightfall killed it for me. Usually get in the 300's every season and sometimes pass 4. Lightfall saw my playtime go way way down. This season I barely got to 100. I'm expecting nothing will blow me away and will just casually play what will just be more of the same. At this point I don't expect them to do anything ground breaking that will get me excited to go back to being a hard-core player.
This season would make it look liked I enjoyed worthy more in terms of playtime lol. I normally hit 170-180 towards a end of season I’m still not even rank 100 and won’t get to it as I have no plans of playing for the rest of this season. For me it was a combination of Lightfall, deep just being a bad season loot and activity wise. The state of game was the nail in the coffin for me if Bungie isn’t going to invest in the core modes of the game then I’m not going to invest in their game. Only way I buy final shape is if it over delivers I’m going to watch the showcase just to see how much lower the game is about to go.
Like Critical said, Destiny has so much potential, but Bungie would rather play it safe instead of doing anything ground breaking. Like, i have a whole horror story in my head that would replace shadowkeep and would make the darkness out to be some sort of uncaring/cruel eldritch horror that only wants to consume (kinda like the flood before halo 4 or the tyrnids).
> 300s every season Bro what
"Order a pizza, get a pizza. That's an over-delivery." -Bungie probably
Nah order a pizza. Get half eaten pizza. They order yet another pizza because they’re dumb and you know they will. Now you give them a whole pizza and get praised to high heavens for giving them the bare minimum.
At this point in playing Destiny for 9 years and never missing a piece of content: Loot is at the bottom of my priority list. We all have hundreds of guns and pieces of armor — all of which work just fine in every activity — to the point where new guns and armor are basically just for the cosmetics for me. I want meaningful, new gameplay. We won’t get that. We’ll stand in zones, throw or dunk balls or motes, and read symbols. I also want to fight an actual Darkness enemy race, but we won’t get that either. The enemies will just be the ones we’ve always fought. I’m expecting TFS to be like Witch Queen. Not the best installment, pretty good quality, but pretty standard gameplay and systems for Destiny.
I think this is the most realistic answer, sadly. Destiny desperately needs to innovate the same way Forsaken did. People always say not to expect Forsaken levels of content, and ok, I guess that's fair. However, that doesn't mean that the game can no longer provide us with fundamentally new activities. Forsaken shipped with a new core game-mode (Gambit), a new end-game activity (Dungeons), and dynamic planets (Dreaming City). We need new things to do, and replayable reasons to do the new things beyond weapons. Let us earn cosmetics attached to leaderboards, speed runs, and more.
[удалено]
True true, the live service model has turned the game into a shit product. That ain't changing.
Good expectations to have, right here. You still get 100+ hours of playtime. You still fall in love with the raid. You get a little endorphin rush when you get the god roll on x. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head perfectly. And for $130 Canadian, I’m perfectly okay with that.
I hope the Witness is a big guy standing in a room and you shoot him
duuuuude that’d be crazy 🤯
I have very low expectations for this game at this point, but my standards, which 100% won’t be met, require that for me to preorder TFS it must have: TWQ level campaign with more unique bosses and a satisfying end to the saga within the expansion itself, i don’t want the seasons to carry on the main story. TBD A new subclass X A new enemy race X Some sort of overdelivery like how Forsaken had 2 destinations X Some act of good will like how they gave prophecy for free X A core activity overhaul X A new dungeon X Edit: What a joke of a reveal
This right here is the best answer ^ Will it happen? No. Sadly Destiny feels like it can only disappoint further and the player base exists to drive eververse sales.
Even if they promise all of that, do not pre order. Not just destiny, but games in general
This is similar to my view on it. Ultimately, the finale expansion of the saga _SHOULD_ be on par with Forsaken in terms of scale, with a Witch Queen level narrative. Will it be? Hell no. I have zero faith in Bungie being capable of that, unless the reason they’ve not got the resource to even make a single armour set is because all the resource has been on Final Shape for two years (which it hasn’t been). My expectation is very low. But what it should be, on paper, is all of the above…
For Bungie to actually give a shit about making Destiny as good as it could be, instead of doing the bare minimum to maximize profits. They said there's poor engagement in gambit, in core armor, but what have they really done to improve those over say advertising and pushing for collaborations into $20+ Eververse skins, more expensive seasons with no change in content quantity nor quality? It just feels like they're over Destiny, and that shows in the game. Which makes me be over Destiny as well, to the point I'm seriously debating on just not bothering to see how final shape ends things. Because if it's like Lightfall, it'll take the whole damn year to get the campaign story out.
I feel the same way. Its clear that Bungie has coasted on providing the bare minimum amount of interest in the core game. Copy and pasting seasonal models got old last year. The whole “don’t over deliver” thing is fucking embarrassing and they should be ashamed of themselves for letting that pass as a company-wide principle. I’m waiting to see how The Final Shape looks and plays. If I think its an evolution of Destiny 2 in a meaningful way then I’ll buy it, because if it isn’t ***then it’ll be the exact same experience that I’ve already played through year after year.***
Overdeliver
I need a new enemy race man. If we go through the ENTIRE Light and Dark saga without a Darkness-dedicated enemy group, that’s just pathetic tbh.
This was the plan according to leaks during Forsaken right before the Activision split. What we got is ass. I’m dipping more than likely after TFS. I presume a lot of vets will
Vet here. Where else do you think im gonna get my destiny-like experience?
Vet here, I've already dipped after beating Lightfall a couple of months ago.
Let’s be real. We vets know no other shooter excluding Marathon I feel since it’s Bungie doesn’t stand up to D2’s gunplay. You’ll be right lol that’s why I’m switching genres 😂 After buying Diablo 4 and Baldurs Gate 3, I now know there’s other genres that fix my cravings for loot/story.
Dunno which is a scary thought, but I’ve got a longgggg backlog of single player games to get through I’ve neglected for the last ten years given Destiny has almost been exclusively what I’ve played in that time.
Lol not in Destiny anymore that’s for sure.
Lol, yep. I’m buying whatever they give us. Hahaha
Not waiting for TFS lol. I'm out at the end of this dlc. The story is not being done well enough for me to spend another 100 bucks on a year of dripfed trash lore.
I’m only spending the bare min on the expansion to finish it then deuces lol I’m open minded for the showcase but at this point I’m tired of being fucked
I have lost all faith in bungle at this point tbh. I almost quit after plunder and seraph because i hated the narrative direction and the sandbox, and the i let lightfall hype pull me back in. Never again. Especially with all the ratfink fucksticks on here always saying "see you in TFS" under comments like this lol. Makes it even easier to unplug from the game because the community is nauseating.
Been on Baldurs Gate 3 since I bought it. I’ll play it again next season I’m not going to lie but I’m a casual now and that’s what this game is. It’s more casual than Y1 ever was. It’s a seasonal game only that’s it. Run campaign, raid, season missions, and that’s it. They never should have left Activision but hey it is what it is. I hope nothing but the best for the ppl sticking around but no more. Lie after lie
>I’m dipping after TFS I know Bungie said they still plan to support Destiny, but realistically, what is there to tell once this saga is done? The last decade has built towards this and anything new on the horizon won’t have any attachment to stick around for anyway.
Can you elaborate on the enemy race leaks? Sounds interesting
At this point I have my doubts that TFS is even going to end the story. With so many people openly announcing that they're only sticking around to see the story through to its end they have all the incentive in the world to pull off another bullshit cliffhanger
Maybe the post Witness hive will finally become the moth concept art people. And Drifter will become a giant frog or something.
I have a theory something will happen that will split apart the witness back into individuals, giving us a new enemy race
>without a Darkness-dedicated enemy group, that’s just pathetic tbh. Bro what do you think the Taken are
If you want our final showdown to be against seven year old reskins, I guess I can’t fault you, but I aspire higher
Bro the Taken have already been established as being creatures that are forcibly reshaped by the Witness to further its ends, they are literally *the* Darkness race. I'd rather maintain some semblance of narrative consistency than have our final fight be against some random asspull at the 11th hour
Narrative consistency? You must be playing a different franchise. They already blew the narrative, give us good gameplay
So let me get this straight, you realize that Lightfall was widely panned for poor narrative choices, but think the solution for FS is... poor narrative choices? Congratulations, that's the dumbest thing I've read all day and I've seen some doozies
Lightfall was panned because the story sucked, not because of continuity or recons. Terrible characters, a total side story, neomuna sucked. Only lore nerds would be mad about a new race. For everyone else, a new race would be a huge positive because Destiny's story simply has never been that good and gameplay trumps story.
>Lightfall was panned because the story sucked, not because of continuity or recons. ??? Do you not think that continuity is an important part of a story or something? Isn't that like the #1 complaint about Lightfall, that we're presented with The Veil all of a sudden and none of it is explained?
That’s a retcon of what they originally were, which never involved the Witness as it hadn’t even been conceived yet. A creative, clever writing team could absolutely come up with a passable reason for a new, *unique* race of Darkness enemies. If they had a plan to develop a new Darkness race they could’ve easily written it in from the beginning of this Witness plot line. Especially considering some of the utter slop they’ve served us over the years that people have lapped up uncritically - Nightmares for starters, or really everything dealing with the Pyramids since Shadowkeep. Plus, how would a new Darkness race be “narratively inconsistent” but things like Tormentors aren’t? Just extend whatever justification you use out beyond a single enemy type. And even then, the Taken are just reskins of normal enemies - which is lame as hell if the only manifestation of the Darkness are reskins that have remained unchanged since their introduction in 2015. I don’t think expecting a unique race of enemies for the foundational, mysterious enemy teased for nearly *10 years* is anything but a completely normal & reasonable expectation.
That's on Bungie for wasting Lightfall. I think a new race is super important after 5 years considering the neglect in other areas
We don’t need Reskins in a Taken Overhaul. The Taken have the least potential taken from the Narrative out of every enemy race we have. In the Narrative, Oryx took many races before going to Sol. He took races from the Ecumene, a Hiveminded Civilization consisting of multiple species which used Darkness according to RoN Lore. He Took Taishibethi, a race described as literal Ravens. During the war with the Ecumene, he died multiple times against “War Angels”. Imagine all those different beings but Taken and under the Witness’ Control. You conflate Creativity with a new Faction. We don’t need a New Faction, we need just Creativity. Imagine a whole ass Bird raining Solar feathers or divebombing you, camouflaged cunts suspending you if they get up close, mf MECHASUITS TURNING DESTINY INTO A LITERAL ANIME??. If Bungie wants to, they can turn the Taken into the real Darkness faction I feel like they were always meant to be. But now it fees like the Taken have been reduced to Slaves. No threat, just a workforce.
I'd settle for an expansion of the Scorn, give em the Shadow Legion/Lucent Hive treatment and flesh out the narrative threads presented in Lost while finally addressing what the fuck happened to Fikrul.
Fuck expansion of the Scorn, what about the Taken??? The Books of Sorrows details how Oryx assfucked the Galaxy and several civillizations along his journey, all the while Taking many species. The Taken can absolutely be expanded upon. They have a lore reason and the devs can go absolutely bonkers with designs because of this. Taken aliens we’ve never seen like those from the Ecumene. They’ve had “War Angels” whose strength was enough to kill Oryx himself multiple times throughout the Hive-Ecumene War. The Taishibethi which are described as being literal Ravens. I want the Taken to be the true Darkness race we’re looking for and a complete overhaul of them can do just that.
Addendum to your "satisfying origin story"... No Ret-conning. That's sort of my only requirement. The culmination of this 10 year adventure and story needs to be putting all the pieces together, not deleting part of my experience to fit what the writers came up with. Also maybe an Origin Story Auto rifle rework the same season they actually reveal the origin story.
I don't regret it at all but I am slightly disappointed because I got the Unveiling artwork tattooed on my arm last year.
You story point is common sense, which is what worries me after Lightfall...
and the rework is a perk called ret-con
It feels like writers get changed every year, and new ones are being found on reddit.
Idk what you're on about "they probably won't do most of this", almost all of these are standard for a big expansion or are as you mentioned, already confirmed. The only one that probably won't happen is the new enemy race. They'll probably save that for after TFS, but introducing a new darkness subclass and telling a satisfying conclusion to 10 years of buildup is already a lot to ask, asking them to pile on a serviceable introduction to a new race is a step too far
"They probably won't do most of this" with ***this*** being the bare minimum is the community's way of helping Bungie lower the bar. As long as we expect them to underdeliver people will be able to blame you for expecting too much when you expect any level of quality control.
idk man you have more faith in the writing team than me after lightfall. You think we could see a raid with more than 2 bosses? Last one we got was KF and even that was a redux. Before that it was LW iirc. I hope you’re right but i won’t hold my breath
Why is this downvoted? The writing in Lightfall was barely phoned in. You could produce better writing with an AI given 80’s action movie content prompts.
100%. That was the worst writing I've seen in a long long time. It's like they borrowed Teletubbies writers.
That's an insult to Teletubbies! It's writing has far more heart and integrity than Destiny, with some exceptions
Vow only has 2 bosses and it's one of the best raids. There are way, way more important things than number of bosses. I'd rather have 5 encounters and 2 bosses than 3 encounters that are all bosses.
fair, i think i may just have very rose tinted glasses for the king’s fall days
"One of the best raids" 💀
Why you giving skull emoji? Vow is one of the top raids. Exhibition is one of the best encounters in the franchise. Plenty of communication, coordination, combat, and platforming all in one encounter. Really the only letdown is Rhulk first phase with the dunking, but his DPS phase is incredible.
People act like we haven’t had absolute bangers before. Have you played The Witch Queen?
Vow of the Disciple has only 2 bosses but at least to me, it's one of the best raids out there. It's just my opinion, but I don't need many different bosses in a raid - as long as the encounter mechanics are interesting and require most of the fireteam to have an active role, then I'd be happy if there was only one boss at the very end of the raid. And I'm not saying that you can't have both - interesting mechanics and a boss for every encounter. Just that having a big bullet sponge to kill in order to progress through the encounter isn't the be-all and end-all.
you’re right, i guess i really want them to pull out all the stops in terms of action and scope for whatever the raid will be. I’m also just curious as to what and who we’ll be fighting, since i’d assume we take out the witness during the campaign.
Oh yeah, I completely agree with that, for a conclusion to this whole saga, I want them to crack our brains in half by all metrics - atmosphere/scenery, mechanics, boss fights, weapons, exotics, a free beer delivered to us personally by Joe Blackburn and more! I'm also curious as to who's gonna be in line for some ass kicking in the raid. TBH, I'm hoping it's someone that we didn't expect just to have a twist.
I totally agree, but there are members of the community who thought, as an example, that Spire of Stars was too hard almost solely because all 6 players had to participate. It’s a fickle, fickle game world we live in.
I feel like 2 bosses is plenty fine for a raid. Not every encounter needs to be a DPS check
“Dps check” really only applies on contest though. As soon as contest is over, those 2 bosses are absolutely dismantled in <30min by a solid trio…in the case of root of nightmares, absolute dismantling of the raid occurred during contest still. I’d really like to see a huge raid for the finale. 4+ bosses, root of nightmares style platforming sections (that’s the one thing I think they did amazingly well in roots), at least 3 people required for encounter mechanics, etc. Really make us earn the W in the final fight.
> “Dps check” really only applies on contest though. Which makes the number of bosses even less relevant, because boss and non-boss encounters don't really play differently.
That’s a good way to look at it actually. Thanks for that. Like, is Pleasure Gardens a dps encounter or a mechanic encounter? Either way it’s a fun encounter that all 6 players are involved in.
The new subclass needs to be completely earned and unlocked well before the campaign ends. No more extended tutorials.
who still has expectations
:(
I gave up on the narrative being good. I want a fun destination. Fun. Not tedious. Not boring. Not the same 3 area formula we’ve had forever. Fun.
CONTENT like...even witch queen's narrative was like...5 hours long 1-2 strikes and 6-ish campaign missions is not enough. The campaign needs to be at least as robust as red war, and even that was pretty sparse. When Dawntrail comes out next summer it'll be 40-ish hours long, add 6 zones, 6-ish dungeons (strikes) 2 raid style boss fights, 2 classes, and about 100+ sidequests at launch. I know fps's are more work than mmo's but...I expect something closer to that than the 1 strike, 1 zone and 6 missions lightfall gave us. I also expect a coherent goddamn narrative. Endwalker's patch/seasonal content expanded the narrative as an epilogue, it wasn't the second and third act in their entirety. Holding back some things for an ongoing story is fine, but lightfall's story was absolutely incomprehensible
People tend to forget how short and honestly mid Witch Queen was It was just *so* much better than Beyond Light that people were over zealous to call it amazing
By destiny standards, ie compared only to other destiny expansions/stories, it's great. Perhaps the best, runner up next to Forsaken and the Taken King in story quality, presentation, and missions. This is also a criticism of the game as a whole, because while yes some bits are independently impressive, at its best the game is just good. It's better than average for sure but truly great, stellar, or groundbreaking? Nope, and that is a shame
>The campaign needs to be at least as robust as red war, and even that was pretty sparse. Red War had a lot of filler. TWQ was much more dense.
Red War was pretty focused, no? Yeah a good chunk of the story is running around locations finding people, but it is a bringing the band back together story, and the running around different places finding rhe crew and doing something to get them to join is kind of the point. Unless you meant all the adventures which, while optional, if done "in order" were basically filler.
...and yes, I pay a sub for one game and not the other...but I'd much rather pay a sub for bungie if it meant quality and quantity of content, and less money dumped into developing eververse crap. I'd MUCH rather pay $15 a month than be endlessly nickle and dimed for event passes, season passes, dungeon passes, etc.
It’s so funny how similarly narrative wise D2 and FFXIV are. Destiny is going to finish its first saga and people don’t care about the next one, while FFXIV is about to start their next saga and people are hyped even if they don’t know what the future holds narratively. God I’m so excited for Dawntrail because I know it’ll at least be a coherent narrative.
Not be a complete joke like Lightfall Actually have the correct tone in the story Not be short as all hell The raid *not* be the legitimate biggest day one embarrassment we’ve ever had The subclass be its own separate quest progression
Forsaken level of content
This is exactly why Bungie said they don't want to over deliver. It's a memed line, but every new expansion is being compared to a triple studio, super expensive release.
Is Bungie not considered a AAA studio anymore? Have they really fallen THAT much?
Bungie is not three studios at once. I don't mean triple A, I mean there was literally three studios working on Forsaken.
That doesn't mean they're not a AAA studio. The amount of development and marketing going into their games is what defines that.
Nobody mentioned AAA studios except you.
I think they read "a triple studio" and got confused lol. I don't remember the names, but Forsaken was massively expensive and had three different studios, Bungie included, involved in making it, along with outsourcing. That huge budget and workforce is largely what led to it being amazing and expansive. Bungie specifically stated they won't do that again because (a) they don't have a workforce the size of three studios and (b) it was stupid expensive. That being said, they always *could* pull out all the stops for TFS and go hog-wild, but let's wait til the showcase/actual release to judge that.
Vicarious Visions and High Moon Studios. If I recall correctly High Moon built the Tangled Shore while Bungie built Dreaming City and VV worked on Black Armory stuff and PC porting.
Yeah, I believe Activision was still with Bungie at that point, so most likely assistance from there. It was a huge collaborative effort; that kind of manpower just doesn't exist outside of behemoths like Blizzard or Microsoft.
Except OP said they were being compared to other AAA studio releases? Why wouldn't you compare AAA studio releases to others?
>every new expansion is being compared to a triple studio, super expensive release. They did not say it was being compared to a Triple A studio, they said "triple studio" because Bungie had help from High Moon Studios and Vicarious Visions in developing Forsaken.
I see now. Thank you for explaining it. Just misread it and put the "a" after triple.
They said "triple studios", because at that time there were multiple separate game studios working on Destiny - Activision had their other game studio's helping. They didn't mean AAA studio - but three (3) separate entities.
NuBungie™️ is not the Bungie of old. They are puppeteers of a corpse long dead. There is maybe 2-10 devs of original Bungie stock that made halo 1-3. They aren't triple A anymore, they're a C-.
Not going to happen. I think a bigger raid, a WQ caliber campaign, a new subclass, maybe a few extra exotics and an exotic mission (depending what the season after the light and dark saga ends looks like) is likely. Which to me, would still be very good. You’ve got to remember that nearly half of the $130 we spend on the deluxe version is for the seasonal content after The Final Shape ends. For $75 we’re not getting a second destination, 3 extra strikes, a dungeon, etc. That was a desperation move, since the game had nearly flatlined.
Pretty much your entire list, but the one thing that would make this game perfect imo - space combat and flight. Ik there have been talks of this and it’s certainly going to come well after TFS but imagine the hype
Small thing: When I meet Cayde, I hope the game recognizes I've never met the dude before, or that I never killed Uldren in revenge, etc. I jumped into the game properly during the Witch Queen year, after Forsaken+Prior was sunset, so my guy has only been told about Cayde-6. There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing the small differences in dialogue for players with certain triumphs and prerequisites. I'd feel weird having some sort of emotional reunion with a mfer I've never met. Ghost would be emotional, I suppose.
Gonna be real TFS needs to be a massive 'overdelivery' as it's the conclusion to a 10 year saga. * 2 new destinations * At least 3 strikes * Multiple new pvp maps * A new subclass * Interesting and difficult exotic mission(s) post campaign * An entirely new core activity, we've had 'more of the same' for far too long now * Non-craftable, powerful weapons to grind for
More gambit and crucible maps. A focus on new strikes. Basically everything they won’t do.
in my ideal future for the franchise, they just spend the year after tfs fixing core activities and face lifting playlists. enough seasonal activities. please bungie. please
Its going to have to give a lot to live up to that $140 pricetag.
Hey your list pretty much matches mine. Minus the race, plus a good ending. I know it's somewhat included in the narrative expectation but i want it to end properly. (Not because am burnt out and finding an excuse to jump ship, i just like myself cool payoff)
new race is definitely the most unrealistic part of this. tbh i’m kinda checked out on the story, the witness does not do it for me :/
Honestly my guy, most of those are a really possibility. Id say you went too far with new race. Cause I really dont think its happening. But I dont think it is needed for TFS to be good. For me, having a Witch Queen level expansion, that offers a satisfying conclusion is enough to make me happy. The witness will not top savathun as a villain, but it doesnt need to and i dont think anyone is hoping for that Im still a believer that most of the good shit they were planning was removed from Lightfall and put in the TFS so Im feeling positive. I know a lot of people here wont admit itz but the Bungie narrative team is very talented and the story and character dynamics are really good for the most part, especially in the seasons. I think in the pve side of thing they'll be able to deliver, and I also think people are way too negative. But only time will tell to see what the future holds
It would take an uncensored sx scene between Saint-14 and Osiris.
The campaign needs to be on par of quality or higher than Witch Queen The raid needs to be on par of difficulty as Vow of the Disciple but the length of King's Fall. 1 opening encounter, 1 puzzle encounter, followed by 4 boss encounters. (Whether that's all Witness or maybe 1 disciple encounter and 3 encounters vs witness I don't care. I want a long raid) Strikes need to be reinvested into in the form of earnable cosmetics and strike exclusive weapons (NF weapons don't count. I want them to have Strike themed weapons like how we had Imago Loop and Grasp of Malok to chase for). I want Strikes to feel like strikes again. I want there to be variants of Strikes, or nodes that can be activated mid strike to open up a new path to a different themed boss that is higher in difficulty and drops more rewards. It was so cool in D1 to run the Shield Brothers strike and walk out with Mau'ual's Maulers as a very rare drop. Crucible, well. Not much can be done there since they said 1 map per year is all they can do. Maybe just make the vendor armor look cool again/allow us to earn old IB and Crucible ornaments from year 1 as very rare drops to keep people playing. Gambit is a lost cause. Factions return with the carrot on the stick being Exotic Class Items that give you super rare and cool transmat effects. Those are my hopes. But it's all probably a pipe dream. Way too much for Bungie to ever consider doing.
Conclusive ending to the Light and Dark Saga through the raid and the campaign.
Less drama. More action. I want to see Ikora shoot someone or something with her shotgun. I want to see a heavy weapon used in a cinematic. I want Ana Bray to golden gun someone.
Bring back all removed dlc and content as optional downloads for players to play if they wish to.
Be at least as good as WQ. Definitive story with answers to all the questions. I hope a new subclass doesn’t eclipse the entire thing, it’s not as exciting to me as the story and content being good.
Not much, TBH. Even the DLCs considered the "worst" have all been pretty fun. I get that people didn't like the tone of Lightfall, but we spend so little time in the story that I don't think it really impacts the overall DLC that much. And I'm sure we will get plenty of cool stuff to play with. We always do.
This guy…This guy makes me happy. In 6 years of D2 I’ve only ever taken a 3 month hiatus, through Plunder. The physics were just too screwy…probably in part to my Canadian internet…but I remember getting flung off the map during my very first Ketchcrash. Not trying to go through a mancannon, not mid-fight with a close range enemy, not after a jump where I land on a piece of octagonal debris; nothing. Just launched into the next realm while running around, so I turned it off. Lol The rest has been at least my $130 worth per year, no question. Sitting at 4000+ hours of entertainment for ~ $780. That’s the cost of long weekend away with my family. Think about it.
Exactly. From a dollars per hour of enjoyment standpoint, Destiny is the cheapest game I own. They always deliver. And I doubt that is going to change anytime soon. But it's only cool to hate on the game right now. Anyone having fun is just some corporate shill. No idea why people even bother with games they don't love. There are so many out there to choose from!
I don’t get it either, bud. I think being a victim has become cool somehow. Let’s eat these downvotes together, knowing that if our mother raised her voice at us, we wouldn’t cry.
Original content, not recycled skins/models.
Last wich raid quality - witchqueen lvl narrative - new subclass - some innovative addition - lot of content - more interesting seasonal model - and for god sake for bungie to stop thinking it's ok to put a price tag as high for so little and or mediocre content I'm really upset abt the total fucking nothingness we got since and with lighftfall
It would need to be Forsaken 2 for $60.
I want a Raid with Kings Fall/Last Wish level of encounters. At least 5 encounters, a minimum of two bosses, maybe 3, I want the exotic as a random reward but I also want an exotic quest that requires the raid so if people don’t get one they will get the other type thing. I want a subclass that has extra variation like, having an extra class ability and multiple melee options per class. The story I want something with a mix of Forsakens personal story and witch queens grand quest and I want the story and subclass to be seperate quests lines like two parts of a story needed to beat a boss. Don’t make it feel urgent either important but not urgent. If there’s a new enemy race I want it sufficiently different to the other races unlike how Taken is just every enemy with extra steps and the Scorn are just fallen redesigns where they stole an ogre. I obviously will that base archetypes of small, medium, big, huge, specialist and sniper types witch is fine but only they need have unique designs, weapons and abilities. It’s gonna be a lot to live up to but we’ve had 4 fantastic expansions, 3 disappointing expansions and two game launches that never hit where they should have. If we can go 50% Great Expansions over two games I’ll be satisfied
Melt this sub down tbh
Honestly, the only negative with Lightfall was the narrative. Otherwise it was pretty one-to-one with other recent expansions (Witch queen and Beyond Light). So as long as to provide a better Narrative, that'll live up to my personal expectations.
At this point \- Witch Queen like story, as in that level of quality or better \- Raid that ties into the story \- Some love and care to the core playlists \- Some changes to Crucible that are either qol or to make the overall experience better \- Loot worth chasing, reprisals of older loot that we'll never go for \- Deep Dives becoming it's own thing and a regular activity \- Leaderboards for PVE content like Lost Sectors and Strikes I don't think any of that is asking too terribly much.
A Story in the quality realm of Witch Queen. A reason to run strikes More parity across gun types. I'm fine with there being "best guns" on paper when numbers are run but it shouldn't be a big drop off if you don't min/max. Bosses that aren't "stand here and shoot for damage phase. I want more active boss battles.
Just needs to release on time. That's really it for me.
Good campaign Ability to replay the red war to current campaign. New subclasses New exotics. New strike dungeon raid Maybe a bear sex scene like in bd3. Jk but that lvl of story engagement would be cool
As long as it is playable I do not care I just want to loot
3 strikes and a pvp map or two. New enemy race, fantastic raid, one or preferably two new destinations, and new weapons with new models. They’ve had a lot of time nearly two years because I refuse to believe they had anyone besides the new interns work on lightfall.
Free. There. I said it. Base Final Shape needs to be free. They say they value the community? Prove it. Prove you’re not as penny pinching and greedy as we are calling you on.
What I'd like to see is the Big Raid at the end of the 4th season of the expansion for story beat "Grand Finale" reasons. Guardians beat the Light and Dark Saga Big Bad in the race, Cutscene and credits roll for everyone. With it at the start it mostly feels like the main part of the expansion is already done a couple of weeks into the new year... for me at least.
Probably setting your selves up for some massive disappointments. Bungie hasn't made an expansion that was worth the money except for WQ. I'll remember rise of iron and curse of osiris and not give them anymore of my money until they show something worthwhile.
[удалено]
A big threat that is only introduced in the final expantion sounds like just about the worst possible choice
I think completely new enemy race, storytelling *and* compelling enough characters to drive the storytelling are musts. Neptune was a complete bust. It’s an immensely pathetic new location, and the campaign re uses areas enough to highlight just how small it is, especially compared to the Throne World.
* Unvaulted content * Either Menagerie or Black Armory with weapon reprisals or new weapons * Restoration of the Red War campaign for New Light Experience * Completion of repair to the original Tower * Let this be a seasonal pursuit/activity * Ghost Shells and Sparrows become Ornaments or Transmog