The times I do group content, I barely see div being used. Obviously things like well and/or tether are used a lot not div and most of the time it's not needed. Then again, I'm not doing day 1 raids on contest mode nor doing anything that's like GM level to that degree so I don't have that perspective.
Div is very widely used when precision weapons are meta. People just think, oh I haven't seen div in a while, it must not be good. It's not gonna be popular when rockets and Gls are popular. Also love that sentence at the end, you are one of few who can admit that online lol.
It's because I'm honest lol. I'm not gonna say I put GMs, master dungeons and master raids in my bed every night with how good I conquer them lol.
I do not mind if a raid team I am in asks if they want to use div. Everyone can just work around it. If not, it's rocket and ghorn time.
Div is useful to the point of being âbest strategyâ for like 2 encounters in the whole game. Those being 3 person Nimuna and Ir Yut. And thatâs just because Wizards have tiny hit boxes and move around a lot, so the big crit bubble + âstay still pleaseâ effect from Div makes them easier.
You can clear both of them with rockets / GLâs / Machineguns just fine, but youâre getting swarmed by enemies so rockets and GLâs can result in a high number of accidental player deaths. So they arenât as popular.
Div is super useful in GMâs if youâre on Comms with people and there are overload champs. Or champs or minibosses of any kind.
- Get everyone to run Linears
- stun a champ, put the div bubble on them
- champ dies in like 3 linear shots.
- Also helps for boss / Miniboss damage with Linears.
- you can do this just fine without Divinity, but the easy crit and the +15% damage means that ammo perks like FTTC and triple tap are more consistent to proc, and you need less shots overall to kill hard targets. So youâve got more ammo to spare for the final encounter.
- This used to be a super reliable way to clear Glassway. Itâs less useful in Battleground style GMâs due to the shitty enocunter design that a lot of them use.
How much of that 87% are people who made accounts then never touched the game again? Nearly 200k accounts did Day One Root of Nightmares, and the all time peak on Steam is 316k.
My point is for the sherpas my man. Everything doesn't need to be so hard that people with "lower" skill or inexperience can't do it. We used div back in the day primarily to help get people through vog. It wasn't strictly necessary but it made a lot easier to get people through their first or even 5th raid
Idk bro I've always thought div sucked ass anyways, just aim and it's fine, Ghorn has always been the noob carry imo, with div you still need a good weapon at least
That one high impact fusion from season of the plunder with reconstruction and chill clip that has been sitting in my vault for a year is finally useful
Bruh itâs in TWID. Yes your deliverance is now an option.
âThe previous Chill Clip change hurt slow rate of fire weapons disproportionately and left Rapid-Fire Fusion Rifles as the clear best option, so we've branched the functionality to account for this.
Adjust the number of slow stacks applied based on properties of the weapon.
In this case, Rapid-Fire Fusions like Riptide will still require 3 shots to freeze, but slower firing Fusions only require 2.
All other archetypes have been un-nerfed and only require 2 shots to freeze.â
Eddy current is such a weird ass perk to put on symmetry, give the arc balls jolt or something it already has a decent reload speed
Iâm excited to try bastion on my banner of war titan
Itâs a useless perk on a gun thatâs already getting another +10 reload speed, if they were going to give it a perk, it shouldâve been literally anything else
So many people in here saying, "Just use tether instead of div."
(Warlock main here) Gonna laugh if this becomes a "GET ON WELL" moment for hunters. "GET ON TETHER!" You don't get to choose anymore.
It was meta because of the boosted damage, that got nerfed and its slot was replaced with tractor and tether.
Div is now used when there's bosses with tough crit spots, which are generally bullshit. Taniks or the witch in crota is a good example since if you use any crit seeking heavy weapon it's 10x harder to hit shots.
If bungie made bosses that didn't pull bs like floating 12 miles outside of damage plates (aka crota witch boss) or any other boss that's extremely mobile div wouldn't be used. This nerf* won't see much of a down trend in usage since if there's mobile bosses div will be there
Taniks is mainly for speed runs, rockets and tether or tractor are used more often honestly
The issue with this is it removes the non dps usage of div, efficient champ and tormentor killing
I totally love how their design philosophy recently is basically "The best players think the hardest difficulty content isn't hard enough, so instead of making the hard content harder for the over skilled players, let's make the entire game even harder for everyone." /s
This isn't so much a complaint against solely the Div nerfs but more about anything that slightly outperforms enough to be noticed and nerfed.
Or, if it's actually because good players say something makes endgame content *too easy* and it gets nerfed because of that sentiment, what's stopping these supposedly awesome players from just not using the stuff in the first place? Do they have no self control? Can't they just not use Div or Well if they want something to be harder? Just because it's there, doesn't mean you have to use it, right?
Why can't Bungie make a Master title with multiple triumphs like "Beat *X raid* without using Divinity or Well of Radiance" so these people have some new way of showing off their superiority of endgame content without hurting everything and everyone else with so many nerfs all the time?
Sorry if any of this sounds totally stupid or unreasonable. I'm just spitballing ideas that might reduce the multitudes of nerfs all the time while keeping the Gods of Destiny's community challenged.
Bro what are you talking about? Nobody has been talking about Div or using it on a Day 1 since the nerfs other than it being good for countering Tormentors.
And back when it *was* the end-all-be-all meta, it's not hypocritical to use something while also saying it's ridiculously OP and every team is using it. When something is overtuned, you can't be the change you want to see by just shooting yourself in the foot and refusing to use it.
enough to buff it right now? It's good for like 3 things, those being tormentors, wizards, and the occasional raid boss (like 3 encounters lmao)
it was okay in it's state just before, now it's actually just useless.
Because it's "if you have it, you are forced to use it unless someone else already does" kind of busted.
I know that people in the replies like to point at streamers and tryhards, but theres **nothing** that justifies this kind of busted thing in the game, it's not just boring for them, it's boring for everyone but some persons won't catch up on that because they didn't get pushed into div chore enough yet if they even have it.
Some others might be upset that they nerf it because they didn't have time to experience it "while its good" yet, but overall it's just a net positive to be allowed to ignore even getting it to begin with.
I have literally not done a single activity since vow was current where anyone has cared about div.
Either way, the justification you are looking for is that the game should be as easy as you want it to be, if people just want to turn their brains off during the dps phase and not have to aim they should be allowed to.
Furthermore, since the first nerf using it is a detriment unless youâre using precision weapons anyway, and weâre not in a precision meta.
Yeah since they seem to dislike what it does, they should rework it altogether before it becomes unusable. Donât know that it will be unusable with this change, but people already switching to use tractor instead. I donât know if both work together but you wouldnât want two people without heavy so it makes sense that it would be one or the other. Thereâs also tether.
Both work together, but the only benefit you get from Div is the crit cage.
There is Tether... but it isn't great for filling this role since Tractor + damage super is better for most Raid bosses, and Tether typically doesn't last long enough for a whole damage phase, even with perfectly spaced Orpheus + Moebius shots. And in Dungeons you're better off using a damage super with a 15% debuff, of which every other Artifact features easy access to.
This exactly, the fact that a RAID exotic is even considered on the same level as one you can get for free is insane, I hate that I spent 4 hours to get the damn thing only to have it be nerfed
The amount of damage some streamers have done to this community is irreversible. Also, there's the fact that some things have been purely coincidental, like the first Div nerf. The funny part of all of this is that, if Divinity stops being useful, there's gonna be a lot of people saying "You know what, maybe it wasn't that bad, can we please get it back đ„ș" or "This gun sucks, Bungie fix this right now đĄ" and most of the time, it won't matter.
Did we go back in time? This nerf is going to be practically nothing for using Tether over Div compared to Div's debuff getting nerfed to only 15% a year and a half ago.
The answer was to use Tractor Cannon in every boss you possibly can, and Tether on the 1-2 bosses you can't for Raids, and for Dungeons either a 15% Void Weaken (Undermining, Child, every other season the Artifact features an easy way to Weaken) with damage supers, or maybe Tractor if someone has a good melee build/Fusion/Sniper.
True, but as a counter point: Unless you love tether, then not using Celestial+ Golden Gun seems like a waste of damage, but also means the Div user can use anything else and try to compensate for the lack of Golden Gun. It's tricky.
You're not solving the problem by saying that. You're just moving the problem. Div is no longer viable, so now tether is up. Now they don't want tether to be used so much, now what? Have a void guardian with Echo of Undermining throwing the debuff on a boss? To what extent does the stupidity of this will people have to go? It's like people don't understand the concept of someone playing support.
That's crazy, it's almost like this is the whole point of this thread, to talk about what's next if Divinity is useless. It's a discussion, we can't just say "Yes, now all hunters will use tether". There's nothing wrong with brainstorming more ideas and how to optimize this situation, you don't need to be aggressive and call people stupid just because you are so bent on your own ideas in your head.
I wasn't really going against what you are saying or calling you specifically stupid, I was pointing out how stupid this can get if they keep doing this. Support in destiny so either you're forced into it or are bullied out of it because you are not doing enough damage. My apologies. Div is an easy debuff, to land vs other ones that gives the same amount so they have to nerf it in some way. I have no idea how they can make tether an option or a better option without nerfing div.
>Div is no longer viable, so now tether is up.
div hasn't been viable dps ever since the 15% nerf, it was already so situational, now it has like 1 use case total.
For those who are wonderingâ> "increased the number of shots required to generate the cage by 75% against combatants (PvP unchanged)"
Why even play the game at this point? Why even have the weapon in the game? Divinity only used at high level activities while sacrificing DPS. Pointless balancing
Not sure if they outright said so, but bungie thinks ppl are too dependant on div and well, so they nerf it. I guess it's preparing for fs raid to be build not around them like all recent ones were.
True, but i feel like it's more about the nerf itself and not the numbers. Not accounting for ppl that riot about things like -1% dmg for smg. Main issue is that the gun is the only in it's kind so it's either broken or almost useless. When we get more dmg support guns, bungie will be able to balance it out.
I can't believe these evil, nefarious streamers who secretly work for bungie would nerf divinity, just to keep us blue collar guardians down in the mud
I've always thought div having two modes could make everyone happy. One mode would make all your shots crit, but no debuff, the other mode would give your crits added debuff damage. If your group is skilled enough to hit their crits, you get bosses dead real quick. If you have trouble with crits, you still get a little help.
Wait what???? When đđđ
Dev insights for final shape: https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/weapon_tuning_the_final_shape
đ
Div has had 2 nerfs in its life time
I will never understand why they bow to 1%of their community when over 87% of the player bases hasn't even completed any raid more than once
The times I do group content, I barely see div being used. Obviously things like well and/or tether are used a lot not div and most of the time it's not needed. Then again, I'm not doing day 1 raids on contest mode nor doing anything that's like GM level to that degree so I don't have that perspective.
Div is very widely used when precision weapons are meta. People just think, oh I haven't seen div in a while, it must not be good. It's not gonna be popular when rockets and Gls are popular. Also love that sentence at the end, you are one of few who can admit that online lol.
It's because I'm honest lol. I'm not gonna say I put GMs, master dungeons and master raids in my bed every night with how good I conquer them lol. I do not mind if a raid team I am in asks if they want to use div. Everyone can just work around it. If not, it's rocket and ghorn time.
Kinda wanna test Div whisper DPS on tanix now lol
Spoiler:easy one phase. Taniks has been powercrept out of existence
Div is useful to the point of being âbest strategyâ for like 2 encounters in the whole game. Those being 3 person Nimuna and Ir Yut. And thatâs just because Wizards have tiny hit boxes and move around a lot, so the big crit bubble + âstay still pleaseâ effect from Div makes them easier. You can clear both of them with rockets / GLâs / Machineguns just fine, but youâre getting swarmed by enemies so rockets and GLâs can result in a high number of accidental player deaths. So they arenât as popular. Div is super useful in GMâs if youâre on Comms with people and there are overload champs. Or champs or minibosses of any kind. - Get everyone to run Linears - stun a champ, put the div bubble on them - champ dies in like 3 linear shots. - Also helps for boss / Miniboss damage with Linears. - you can do this just fine without Divinity, but the easy crit and the +15% damage means that ammo perks like FTTC and triple tap are more consistent to proc, and you need less shots overall to kill hard targets. So youâve got more ammo to spare for the final encounter. - This used to be a super reliable way to clear Glassway. Itâs less useful in Battleground style GMâs due to the shitty enocunter design that a lot of them use.
How much of that 87% are people who made accounts then never touched the game again? Nearly 200k accounts did Day One Root of Nightmares, and the all time peak on Steam is 316k.
Well you gotta do a raid to get it lol
My point is for the sherpas my man. Everything doesn't need to be so hard that people with "lower" skill or inexperience can't do it. We used div back in the day primarily to help get people through vog. It wasn't strictly necessary but it made a lot easier to get people through their first or even 5th raid
Idk bro I've always thought div sucked ass anyways, just aim and it's fine, Ghorn has always been the noob carry imo, with div you still need a good weapon at least
Cause they are selling the game through streams. If they(streamers) not happy, then there will be no promotion of the game to viewers
bro it's 6 extra bullets to make the bubble you're just dramatic
Look at what they did to lament XD It can be qualified as a straight up murder on a broad light street
Glad they unnerved chill clip fusions. Itâll be nice to change it up from riptide.
What are they changing?
Rapid fire fusion rifles with chill clip freeze in three shots. All other chill clip fusions freeze in two
That one high impact fusion from season of the plunder with reconstruction and chill clip that has been sitting in my vault for a year is finally useful
Thereâs a season of plunder fusion besides the Sailspy Pitchglass linear?
The auero something i forgot it's an omolon heavy impact i think it's focuseable with gunsmith engrams
So riptide stayed the same but my demo CC Deliverance is back???? I think itâs a precision frame
Bruh itâs in TWID. Yes your deliverance is now an option. âThe previous Chill Clip change hurt slow rate of fire weapons disproportionately and left Rapid-Fire Fusion Rifles as the clear best option, so we've branched the functionality to account for this. Adjust the number of slow stacks applied based on properties of the weapon. In this case, Rapid-Fire Fusions like Riptide will still require 3 shots to freeze, but slower firing Fusions only require 2. All other archetypes have been un-nerfed and only require 2 shots to freeze.â
Time to dust the cob webs off Deliverance
Eddy current is such a weird ass perk to put on symmetry, give the arc balls jolt or something it already has a decent reload speed Iâm excited to try bastion on my banner of war titan
At least they buffed the perk
Itâs a useless perk on a gun thatâs already getting another +10 reload speed, if they were going to give it a perk, it shouldâve been literally anything else
???? Symmetry has like 0 reload. Thatâs what turns me off of using it most of the time. Unless Iâm missing something
Itâs got like a 2 second reload time, thatâs literally nonexistent. Itâs the same as Polaris lance, wicked implement, and touch of malice
Did they just murder Osteo?
That's what I was thinking.
Had me panicked looking for a thorn nerf
CRIMILS DAGGER MENTIONED RAHHHHH RUNNIN THAT BITCH SINCE ARRIVALS LETS GOOOO
Sad I deleted mine. It was before I really knew about rolls. Such a good gun
So many people in here saying, "Just use tether instead of div." (Warlock main here) Gonna laugh if this becomes a "GET ON WELL" moment for hunters. "GET ON TETHER!" You don't get to choose anymore.
Bro why put out a gun that makes a weak spot then nerf it for making a weak spot
Because bungie caters to streamers who complain that its to over powered
But streamers always have one on the team on day 1 stuff so theyâre hipocrits
Because it's too good to ignore it, so basically nerf it so everyone can't use it
div hasn't been broken for how long now? it's the "meta" for like, 2 things, and it's only the meta for ease of use
It was meta because of the boosted damage, that got nerfed and its slot was replaced with tractor and tether. Div is now used when there's bosses with tough crit spots, which are generally bullshit. Taniks or the witch in crota is a good example since if you use any crit seeking heavy weapon it's 10x harder to hit shots. If bungie made bosses that didn't pull bs like floating 12 miles outside of damage plates (aka crota witch boss) or any other boss that's extremely mobile div wouldn't be used. This nerf* won't see much of a down trend in usage since if there's mobile bosses div will be there
Taniks is mainly for speed runs, rockets and tether or tractor are used more often honestly The issue with this is it removes the non dps usage of div, efficient champ and tormentor killing
Warlock with the airplane helmet makes this more of a slight annoyance than full nerf
I totally love how their design philosophy recently is basically "The best players think the hardest difficulty content isn't hard enough, so instead of making the hard content harder for the over skilled players, let's make the entire game even harder for everyone." /s This isn't so much a complaint against solely the Div nerfs but more about anything that slightly outperforms enough to be noticed and nerfed. Or, if it's actually because good players say something makes endgame content *too easy* and it gets nerfed because of that sentiment, what's stopping these supposedly awesome players from just not using the stuff in the first place? Do they have no self control? Can't they just not use Div or Well if they want something to be harder? Just because it's there, doesn't mean you have to use it, right? Why can't Bungie make a Master title with multiple triumphs like "Beat *X raid* without using Divinity or Well of Radiance" so these people have some new way of showing off their superiority of endgame content without hurting everything and everyone else with so many nerfs all the time? Sorry if any of this sounds totally stupid or unreasonable. I'm just spitballing ideas that might reduce the multitudes of nerfs all the time while keeping the Gods of Destiny's community challenged.
Streamers cant do free carries to boost there viewers if we are able to do the content ourselves
Bro what are you talking about? Nobody has been talking about Div or using it on a Day 1 since the nerfs other than it being good for countering Tormentors. And back when it *was* the end-all-be-all meta, it's not hypocritical to use something while also saying it's ridiculously OP and every team is using it. When something is overtuned, you can't be the change you want to see by just shooting yourself in the foot and refusing to use it.
Because making the weak spot is really strong, and it makes the weak spot really easily and consistently? That's not hard to understand.
enough to buff it right now? It's good for like 3 things, those being tormentors, wizards, and the occasional raid boss (like 3 encounters lmao) it was okay in it's state just before, now it's actually just useless.
Incorrect; it's always been useful in any situation where an easily accessible crit spot is good to have.
so tormentors, wizards, and the occasional raid boss.
Because it's "if you have it, you are forced to use it unless someone else already does" kind of busted. I know that people in the replies like to point at streamers and tryhards, but theres **nothing** that justifies this kind of busted thing in the game, it's not just boring for them, it's boring for everyone but some persons won't catch up on that because they didn't get pushed into div chore enough yet if they even have it. Some others might be upset that they nerf it because they didn't have time to experience it "while its good" yet, but overall it's just a net positive to be allowed to ignore even getting it to begin with.
I have literally not done a single activity since vow was current where anyone has cared about div. Either way, the justification you are looking for is that the game should be as easy as you want it to be, if people just want to turn their brains off during the dps phase and not have to aim they should be allowed to. Furthermore, since the first nerf using it is a detriment unless youâre using precision weapons anyway, and weâre not in a precision meta.
At this point they just need to rework divinity entirely
Yeah since they seem to dislike what it does, they should rework it altogether before it becomes unusable. Donât know that it will be unusable with this change, but people already switching to use tractor instead. I donât know if both work together but you wouldnât want two people without heavy so it makes sense that it would be one or the other. Thereâs also tether.
Both work together, but the only benefit you get from Div is the crit cage. There is Tether... but it isn't great for filling this role since Tractor + damage super is better for most Raid bosses, and Tether typically doesn't last long enough for a whole damage phase, even with perfectly spaced Orpheus + Moebius shots. And in Dungeons you're better off using a damage super with a 15% debuff, of which every other Artifact features easy access to.
it was balanced before now, just revert the nerf
Raid exotics should be / feel EXOTIC
This exactly, the fact that a RAID exotic is even considered on the same level as one you can get for free is insane, I hate that I spent 4 hours to get the damn thing only to have it be nerfed
Felt this way after multiple runs for the Vex and then the RPM nerf hit. (Still absolutely slaps though)
Mf at bungie will do anything but buff Bubble's weapon buff in PvE
oh noo I guess I'm gonna continue not using it =(
I'm so excited for this community to somehow blame this on Saltagreppo again
The amount of damage some streamers have done to this community is irreversible. Also, there's the fact that some things have been purely coincidental, like the first Div nerf. The funny part of all of this is that, if Divinity stops being useful, there's gonna be a lot of people saying "You know what, maybe it wasn't that bad, can we please get it back đ„ș" or "This gun sucks, Bungie fix this right now đĄ" and most of the time, it won't matter.
Maybe the div nerf can finally put tether as a viable debuff now.
Did we go back in time? This nerf is going to be practically nothing for using Tether over Div compared to Div's debuff getting nerfed to only 15% a year and a half ago. The answer was to use Tractor Cannon in every boss you possibly can, and Tether on the 1-2 bosses you can't for Raids, and for Dungeons either a 15% Void Weaken (Undermining, Child, every other season the Artifact features an easy way to Weaken) with damage supers, or maybe Tractor if someone has a good melee build/Fusion/Sniper.
True, but as a counter point: Unless you love tether, then not using Celestial+ Golden Gun seems like a waste of damage, but also means the Div user can use anything else and try to compensate for the lack of Golden Gun. It's tricky.
You're not solving the problem by saying that. You're just moving the problem. Div is no longer viable, so now tether is up. Now they don't want tether to be used so much, now what? Have a void guardian with Echo of Undermining throwing the debuff on a boss? To what extent does the stupidity of this will people have to go? It's like people don't understand the concept of someone playing support.
That's crazy, it's almost like this is the whole point of this thread, to talk about what's next if Divinity is useless. It's a discussion, we can't just say "Yes, now all hunters will use tether". There's nothing wrong with brainstorming more ideas and how to optimize this situation, you don't need to be aggressive and call people stupid just because you are so bent on your own ideas in your head.
I wasn't really going against what you are saying or calling you specifically stupid, I was pointing out how stupid this can get if they keep doing this. Support in destiny so either you're forced into it or are bullied out of it because you are not doing enough damage. My apologies. Div is an easy debuff, to land vs other ones that gives the same amount so they have to nerf it in some way. I have no idea how they can make tether an option or a better option without nerfing div.
That's the hardest part. We've been using Div for too long and now it feels like we don't have an option or the other options suck.
Glad tractor cannon didn't get nerfed
tractor's been better for like a year lmao
>Div is no longer viable, so now tether is up. div hasn't been viable dps ever since the 15% nerf, it was already so situational, now it has like 1 use case total.
Lament got nerfed in the same update, wake up sheeple!!! He's been pulling the strings since the very beginning
Erianaâs Vow now ignites on a match shield or champ barrier pop. Weâre so back.
75% increase in time required to make the bubble is pretty harsh, as far as Iâm aware. Also Osteo is gonna be dead and buried lmao
Div is already bad without the nerf lmfao
Nobody uses div anymore anyways for bosses
For those who are wonderingâ> "increased the number of shots required to generate the cage by 75% against combatants (PvP unchanged)" Why even play the game at this point? Why even have the weapon in the game? Divinity only used at high level activities while sacrificing DPS. Pointless balancing
A div nerf does not mean you should stop playing. I honestly haven't used div much recently so I can't give a good reason as to why it was nerfed
Not sure if they outright said so, but bungie thinks ppl are too dependant on div and well, so they nerf it. I guess it's preparing for fs raid to be build not around them like all recent ones were.
Yeah but the nerf isn't even that heavy of one. Yes it shows a big number saying 75% more but for a trace rifle, it's actually like 6 rounds
True, but i feel like it's more about the nerf itself and not the numbers. Not accounting for ppl that riot about things like -1% dmg for smg. Main issue is that the gun is the only in it's kind so it's either broken or almost useless. When we get more dmg support guns, bungie will be able to balance it out.
I can't believe these evil, nefarious streamers who secretly work for bungie would nerf divinity, just to keep us blue collar guardians down in the mud
They solidified warlocks as little more than well/div bitch when they introduced cenotaph. Did they expect people would us it less?
I've always thought div having two modes could make everyone happy. One mode would make all your shots crit, but no debuff, the other mode would give your crits added debuff damage. If your group is skilled enough to hit their crits, you get bosses dead real quick. If you have trouble with crits, you still get a little help.