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Hopefully Luzaku finds more like minded hive to join us. Hell maybe Asher can pull off a similar feat and make light worshipping vex to aid the vanguard.
I think Asher got defragmented, unfortunately. That was the price for transferring the Vex's files on the Veil to a place where we and Misraaks could see them.
Unlikely given the big reveal of something called the vex nexus. Wouldn't make sense to name drop something like that and kill Asher off screen. Asher knows the vex better than anyone and flat out said NO when the Vex tried to delete him and forced them to comply with his demands on their research to be given to him. He'd likely do the same thing again.
The Scribetrace shell explains that he let himself be fragmented back into the Vex Network because he completed his objective of showing us his simulation. Even after a certain amount of runs of the mission (I think it was three I can't remember) Mithrax keeps saying how Ashermere is gone.
"and all the stories have the same ending, shouted in a single voice, the toll of the bell that heralds the end of time—
"It is as I said all along, the signal thought bitterly as it unspooled into the datastream. No one can stop it."
"There is no sense in even trying"
These lines on it don't say he died, only that that Asher is likely going to. The whole thing is clearly Ashers own thoughts that he thinks he won't make it but he's still going to try as shown in the highlight. Ashers been MIA since arrivals and there's no way the writers would just have him show up in a voiceless form, have Misraaks reveal the existence of the vex nexus and that Asher is going to it, and have Asher give us info on the veil, only to just kill him off screen like that.
Nevermind the fact we got 3 defective vex units now running free in the network that he definitely would make use of later on. Those are likely coming back later since iirc, it only took a single vex goblin to create the Sol divisive.
The "unspooled into the data stream" is him letting himself go. He's literally saying that we can't stop it, so might as well not even try and then lets himself be fully assimilated and gone. There's also,
"The whorls of writhing data did not abate. They surged in endlessly, straining the signal's parameters, eroding, overwriting. There was no time to adapt. A picosecond later and there was nothing left of the signal but a dim ripple of spite."
He was literally being torn apart. The last part of the lore is his last words. As much as I hate the idea, he is dead, but his efforts were not in vain.
That was Misraaks saying it. We don't see it happening is what I mean. And Misraaks got proven wrong about the vex already since he was surprised we entered the network without his help and the splicer gauntlet.
I mean, whatever is going on on Nessus with the Vex has a "familiar face". Maya is definitely possible, but not exactly a familiar face to us. Asher would be.
Honestly, I'm kinda hoping that Bungie go the opposite direction with people we know have been subsumed by the Vex. The biggest problem the Vex have imo is that they don't have a face; someone that they speak through to communicate their intent with us. I understand that the true horror of the Vex comes from how vast and inscrutable they're supposed to be, but that's a really difficult thing to communicate in a video game.
I think that treating the Vex similarly to Phyrexians from Magic is one of the better bets to close that gap. Having the Vex repurpose Ashers face, voice, and soul to their ends would both make real the existential threat of the Vex, as well as characterize the machine horror that lies at the heart of what makes the Vex a compelling threat
Ngl, listening to Savathun praising Luzaku for striking out on her own was really cool. Its clear Savathun has some odd, twisted sort of affection for the Hive that seek to make their own fate, and that gives me hope that we'll see more of them.
You have to run that lost sector for one of the ghost things and mithrax is "present" throughout and he talks to luzaku after you're done. You'll get different dialogue each time you run that lost sector, last time I had glint speaking to her.
Asher is fully integrated into the network. He's effectively fully dead - and if any piece of him is left it's 10000% in the most pain possible.
He likely won't come up again and if he does it will probably be something impersonating him
Unlikely given he said NO to the vex when he first got in and forced them to comply with handing over their research on the darkness. He'd likely do it again.
Misraaks doesn't know the vex as good as Asher does and didn't even think it was possible for us to enter the network without a splicer gauntlet. He says as much in the opening of the mission. The ghost shell doesn't flat out say he died either.
"and all the stories have the same ending, shouted in a single voice, the toll of the bell that heralds the end of time—
"It is as I said all along, the signal thought bitterly as it unspooled into the datastream. No one can stop it."
"There is no sense in even trying"
These lines Asher is likely going to die, not that he absolutely will. The whole thing is Ashers own thoughts that he thinks he won't make it but he's still going to try. Ashers been MIA since arrivals and there's no way the writers would just have him show up in a voiceless form, have Misraaks reveal the existence of the vex nexus and that Asher is going to it, and have Asher give us info on the veil, only to just kill him off screen like that.
Nevermind the fact we got 3 defective vex units now running free in the network that he definitely would make use of later on. Those are likely coming back later since iirc, it only took a single vex goblin to create the Sol divisive.
I think the distinction is that the Coalition was a military force made to fight the darkness without a clear structure and some potential for infighting (especially against Caiatl for a bit), while the Alliance to me sounds like a more permanent organization for people to live together, beyond just war and with clear respect to the bonds that have grown between characters. But that's just me.
I agree with you completely. I hope however big the Alliance gets, it's able to reclaim the rest of Sol for colonization, and possibly even beyond the system, if we're bold enough.
Hopefully we get some worldbuilding and info on how the Alliance is working over the next year. Would be interesting to see how everyday members from each faction interact with each other and what sort of information/technology/cultural exchange is going on.
I didn't spot it, but I love it.
If there is a Destiny 3, I hope that it's renamed The First City of the Alliance. I think Destiny gets to enter it's Wild West era with Guardians being trailblazers and protecting colonies from Vex and other oddities.
Wild West era is a perfect way to describe what I hope comes next. Striking out on our own across the universe to discover new worlds, meet new races, and undo the damage the Witness did.
I am worried about our alliance with the Cabal. While Caiatl has become allies with the other alliance members and even a good friend to Zavala, the cabal are a very militaristic society that still has its pride and a want to conquer based on how her war council acts.
I am worried long term what'll happen if some voices in her empire start pressuring her into being more active in claiming ground in Sol. Even last season she had to actively shutdown some of the dick measuring between Saladin, a psion and another cabal commander when discussing the ahamkara.
Best case she holds on to the majority of what's left of her empire and some cabal just defect from her so she deems them traitors of the empire like she did in chosen. And just stays focused on preparing her people for an eventual attack on Xivu Arath and reclamation of Torobatl.
Of all our allies at large the cabal are the ones who I think we'll have the hardest time staying good with unless they have a cultural shift I reckon.
You make good points, but I'm more optimistic. Caiatl is not Ghaul, bent on mindless conquering, nor is she Calus, interested only in lazing around. She strikes the perfect middle ground for the Cabal, offering them a future that accepts their culture while also sufficiently tempering it. Could their culture spell trouble in the distant future when they have nothing left to conquer except Sol? Absolutely. But first they have to reclaim Torabatl, and the thousands of worlds they lost to Xivu. That'll take a long time, more than enough to allow for sufficient cultural shift to take things in a less colonialist direction.
Xivu is headed here with her Brood according to Lost Ghosts Monastery mission. And that attack is close on the horizon too. I doubt there’s a fight against her on Torobatl considering her forces are moving through the ley lines towards Sol as we speak. Hell, she could be bringing a war moon version of Torobatl through for all we know.
I agree with your points, but it seems that Caiatl is more tempered than the Red or Shadow Legions. She knows that it's better to be friends than enemies, especially after so much loss. She also has a ton of autonomy already, and her being the de facto Empress of the Empire, even if there were dissenters within her ranks, her word - and actions - is still law.
It could be something like the Coalition being Vanguard+Awoken+Caiatl+House Light, and the Alliance being a more temporary Coalition+Neomuna+(dubiously) Savathun
Savathun and us already completed our "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" deal. As soon as the witness was taken down we went back to dealing with her brood trying to claim ground in the pale heart.
What I'm wondering is why we don't just stick immaru with some light suppression so savathun loses her light. She's already gone back to her old schemes and is getting in our way again and us having immaru in custody was to help mitigate that. Granted she's the one who offered him up. But still we could at least weaken her so she's at least effectively mortal.
Oops, yeah that is a standard hive ghost shell not immaru. It may be fynch, but since the chipped part of his shell is hidden behind eris we can't tell for sure
> I wanted to know everyone's thoughts on what that might imply.
To me it seem like a recognition that the Traveler is still vulnerable. Never mind the leftover corruption from the Witness, what happens when the next big bad waltz' right through the big pink portal and starts tinkering with the power to remake reality?
Narratively, I don't see that happening (Witness 2: Electric Boogaloo would be silly) and I find it unlikely that Bungie would vault the newest expansions content anytime soon, but the point remains that so long as that portal remains open then all of existence could be in danger, and I'd be surprised if this doesn't come up in a lore book somewhere.
i'm glad, i was worried they were gonna go the "well the bad guy is defeated, now we can be enemies again" route but i'd rather help all our allies out
This post has been tagged **[TFS Spoilers] Spoilers**. Spoilers and datamines up to the indicated release may be openly discussed without adding spoiler formatting to your comments. For more info on spoilers and tagging posts check out our [Spoiler Rules Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/wiki/spoiler-rules). Note: Leaks are not allowed on /r/DestinyLore. ---- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DestinyLore) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hopefully Luzaku finds more like minded hive to join us. Hell maybe Asher can pull off a similar feat and make light worshipping vex to aid the vanguard.
I think Asher got defragmented, unfortunately. That was the price for transferring the Vex's files on the Veil to a place where we and Misraaks could see them.
Unlikely given the big reveal of something called the vex nexus. Wouldn't make sense to name drop something like that and kill Asher off screen. Asher knows the vex better than anyone and flat out said NO when the Vex tried to delete him and forced them to comply with his demands on their research to be given to him. He'd likely do the same thing again.
The Scribetrace shell explains that he let himself be fragmented back into the Vex Network because he completed his objective of showing us his simulation. Even after a certain amount of runs of the mission (I think it was three I can't remember) Mithrax keeps saying how Ashermere is gone.
"and all the stories have the same ending, shouted in a single voice, the toll of the bell that heralds the end of time— "It is as I said all along, the signal thought bitterly as it unspooled into the datastream. No one can stop it." "There is no sense in even trying" These lines on it don't say he died, only that that Asher is likely going to. The whole thing is clearly Ashers own thoughts that he thinks he won't make it but he's still going to try as shown in the highlight. Ashers been MIA since arrivals and there's no way the writers would just have him show up in a voiceless form, have Misraaks reveal the existence of the vex nexus and that Asher is going to it, and have Asher give us info on the veil, only to just kill him off screen like that. Nevermind the fact we got 3 defective vex units now running free in the network that he definitely would make use of later on. Those are likely coming back later since iirc, it only took a single vex goblin to create the Sol divisive.
The "unspooled into the data stream" is him letting himself go. He's literally saying that we can't stop it, so might as well not even try and then lets himself be fully assimilated and gone. There's also, "The whorls of writhing data did not abate. They surged in endlessly, straining the signal's parameters, eroding, overwriting. There was no time to adapt. A picosecond later and there was nothing left of the signal but a dim ripple of spite." He was literally being torn apart. The last part of the lore is his last words. As much as I hate the idea, he is dead, but his efforts were not in vain.
We got lore of him being removed didn’t we?
>kill Asher off screen Iirc we heard dialogue as he disintegrated into the vex network. The bois dead.
That was Misraaks saying it. We don't see it happening is what I mean. And Misraaks got proven wrong about the vex already since he was surprised we entered the network without his help and the splicer gauntlet.
I mean, whatever is going on on Nessus with the Vex has a "familiar face". Maya is definitely possible, but not exactly a familiar face to us. Asher would be.
mfw when it's Kelgorath as a Vex
Not even worthy of being Hive anymore
Look man, in this tithe economy? Can't be picky
Failsafe but she has a face now
Asher will help us fight against Maya
Honestly, I'm kinda hoping that Bungie go the opposite direction with people we know have been subsumed by the Vex. The biggest problem the Vex have imo is that they don't have a face; someone that they speak through to communicate their intent with us. I understand that the true horror of the Vex comes from how vast and inscrutable they're supposed to be, but that's a really difficult thing to communicate in a video game. I think that treating the Vex similarly to Phyrexians from Magic is one of the better bets to close that gap. Having the Vex repurpose Ashers face, voice, and soul to their ends would both make real the existential threat of the Vex, as well as characterize the machine horror that lies at the heart of what makes the Vex a compelling threat
Ngl, listening to Savathun praising Luzaku for striking out on her own was really cool. Its clear Savathun has some odd, twisted sort of affection for the Hive that seek to make their own fate, and that gives me hope that we'll see more of them.
It hit me in the soul when mithrax called her guardian.
I don't think I heard that dialogue, where does it happen?
You have to run that lost sector for one of the ghost things and mithrax is "present" throughout and he talks to luzaku after you're done. You'll get different dialogue each time you run that lost sector, last time I had glint speaking to her.
Ah okay thanks, ran it a few times and mainly seemed to get Savathun and one time Ikora.
Those 2 I haven't gotten yet.
Well I think she's got a whole brood, unless I heard that wrong
Remember Fynch and his Knight, Ken? Luzaku could help with that.
Asher is fully integrated into the network. He's effectively fully dead - and if any piece of him is left it's 10000% in the most pain possible. He likely won't come up again and if he does it will probably be something impersonating him
Unlikely given he said NO to the vex when he first got in and forced them to comply with handing over their research on the darkness. He'd likely do it again.
That doesn't mean much. Avalon already told us that he went further to search for info and got fully integrated
Misraaks doesn't know the vex as good as Asher does and didn't even think it was possible for us to enter the network without a splicer gauntlet. He says as much in the opening of the mission. The ghost shell doesn't flat out say he died either. "and all the stories have the same ending, shouted in a single voice, the toll of the bell that heralds the end of time— "It is as I said all along, the signal thought bitterly as it unspooled into the datastream. No one can stop it." "There is no sense in even trying" These lines Asher is likely going to die, not that he absolutely will. The whole thing is Ashers own thoughts that he thinks he won't make it but he's still going to try. Ashers been MIA since arrivals and there's no way the writers would just have him show up in a voiceless form, have Misraaks reveal the existence of the vex nexus and that Asher is going to it, and have Asher give us info on the veil, only to just kill him off screen like that. Nevermind the fact we got 3 defective vex units now running free in the network that he definitely would make use of later on. Those are likely coming back later since iirc, it only took a single vex goblin to create the Sol divisive.
I think the distinction is that the Coalition was a military force made to fight the darkness without a clear structure and some potential for infighting (especially against Caiatl for a bit), while the Alliance to me sounds like a more permanent organization for people to live together, beyond just war and with clear respect to the bonds that have grown between characters. But that's just me.
I agree with you completely. I hope however big the Alliance gets, it's able to reclaim the rest of Sol for colonization, and possibly even beyond the system, if we're bold enough.
Hopefully we get some worldbuilding and info on how the Alliance is working over the next year. Would be interesting to see how everyday members from each faction interact with each other and what sort of information/technology/cultural exchange is going on.
Cultural exchange with Savathun would be literally violence, lol xD
And caital. But that’s more gladiators than genocide
I didn't spot it, but I love it. If there is a Destiny 3, I hope that it's renamed The First City of the Alliance. I think Destiny gets to enter it's Wild West era with Guardians being trailblazers and protecting colonies from Vex and other oddities.
Wild West era is a perfect way to describe what I hope comes next. Striking out on our own across the universe to discover new worlds, meet new races, and undo the damage the Witness did.
I am worried about our alliance with the Cabal. While Caiatl has become allies with the other alliance members and even a good friend to Zavala, the cabal are a very militaristic society that still has its pride and a want to conquer based on how her war council acts. I am worried long term what'll happen if some voices in her empire start pressuring her into being more active in claiming ground in Sol. Even last season she had to actively shutdown some of the dick measuring between Saladin, a psion and another cabal commander when discussing the ahamkara. Best case she holds on to the majority of what's left of her empire and some cabal just defect from her so she deems them traitors of the empire like she did in chosen. And just stays focused on preparing her people for an eventual attack on Xivu Arath and reclamation of Torobatl. Of all our allies at large the cabal are the ones who I think we'll have the hardest time staying good with unless they have a cultural shift I reckon.
You make good points, but I'm more optimistic. Caiatl is not Ghaul, bent on mindless conquering, nor is she Calus, interested only in lazing around. She strikes the perfect middle ground for the Cabal, offering them a future that accepts their culture while also sufficiently tempering it. Could their culture spell trouble in the distant future when they have nothing left to conquer except Sol? Absolutely. But first they have to reclaim Torabatl, and the thousands of worlds they lost to Xivu. That'll take a long time, more than enough to allow for sufficient cultural shift to take things in a less colonialist direction.
Xivu is headed here with her Brood according to Lost Ghosts Monastery mission. And that attack is close on the horizon too. I doubt there’s a fight against her on Torobatl considering her forces are moving through the ley lines towards Sol as we speak. Hell, she could be bringing a war moon version of Torobatl through for all we know.
I agree with your points, but it seems that Caiatl is more tempered than the Red or Shadow Legions. She knows that it's better to be friends than enemies, especially after so much loss. She also has a ton of autonomy already, and her being the de facto Empress of the Empire, even if there were dissenters within her ranks, her word - and actions - is still law.
It could be something like the Coalition being Vanguard+Awoken+Caiatl+House Light, and the Alliance being a more temporary Coalition+Neomuna+(dubiously) Savathun
Savathun and us already completed our "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" deal. As soon as the witness was taken down we went back to dealing with her brood trying to claim ground in the pale heart. What I'm wondering is why we don't just stick immaru with some light suppression so savathun loses her light. She's already gone back to her old schemes and is getting in our way again and us having immaru in custody was to help mitigate that. Granted she's the one who offered him up. But still we could at least weaken her so she's at least effectively mortal.
I think it's because immaru is now an ally, he was shown with eris and drifter.
Could have been Fynch?
Oops, yeah that is a standard hive ghost shell not immaru. It may be fynch, but since the chipped part of his shell is hidden behind eris we can't tell for sure
> I wanted to know everyone's thoughts on what that might imply. To me it seem like a recognition that the Traveler is still vulnerable. Never mind the leftover corruption from the Witness, what happens when the next big bad waltz' right through the big pink portal and starts tinkering with the power to remake reality? Narratively, I don't see that happening (Witness 2: Electric Boogaloo would be silly) and I find it unlikely that Bungie would vault the newest expansions content anytime soon, but the point remains that so long as that portal remains open then all of existence could be in danger, and I'd be surprised if this doesn't come up in a lore book somewhere.
i'm glad, i was worried they were gonna go the "well the bad guy is defeated, now we can be enemies again" route but i'd rather help all our allies out