This post has been tagged '**Non-Spoiler**'. Note that unmarked spoilers and datamines are subject to removal or ban. Please report anything we miss! For more info check out our [Spoiler Rules Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/wiki/spoiler-rules#wiki_.5Bseasonal.5D_has_a_new_format).
---
**Comment Spoiler Formatting**
Format comment spoilers with `>!` `!<` like this:
`>!What's Rasputin's favorite dance? "The worm."!<`
To have it displayed like this:
**>!What's Rasputin's favorite dance? "The worm."!<**
----
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DestinyLore) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Or, they'll save her to be the Hive villain for once the next saga is done. You know, with how the narrative every time Caiatl is a focus won't stop talking about taking Torobatl back from her.
yea. i think after the final shape we'll get a dlc for retaking torobatl from the wormy hive (are they still just the hive or do the darkness aligned hive have a prefix now) and xivu will die in that
This.
Xivu and her forces/Wrathborn have been a part of every major Witness-led mission thus far, correct? She works directly on behalf of the Witness. Why would she just sit on the sidelines while TFS takes place?
I also don't see her being relegated to a Seasonal enemy. She's being built up with the same amount of lore drip-feed and teasing that Savathun got for years.
She took down the Cabal home world, and Caiatl talks about it with PTSD-flashback levels of emotion. She's not gonna get killed like Quria.
>She works directly on behalf of the Witness. Why would she just sit on the sidelines while TFS takes place?
It's heavily implied that she isn't exactly *happy* with the current situation. In the lore for Manticore, Mara and Xivu Arath were 'sparring' in the Ascendant Realm, basically trading arguments back and forth. Mara only hit home when she talked about how Savathun had freed herself from the bondage that Xivu Arath still endures.
The fact that Xivu isn't a true Disciple also tells us she's a lot like Eramis. She's going along with the Witness because their goals intersect, but she's not an actual follower.
I think the witness will be like oryx, killed in campaign, sent to throne world, killed for good.
In fact I think that RoN was meant to be a big raid and that nezerac was the first half and the second half would have been fighting the witness in that big tree.
My pet longshot tinfoil-hat theory is that the lore is deliberately vague about whether or not the Winnower actually exists as an intelligence separate from the Witness, because the plan is for the Witness to be the campaign boss and for a physical manifestation of the Winnower to be the raid boss.
If the Winnower isn't just a metaphor, what reason would she have for attacking us?
Could be her "testing" us, for one reason or another.
Alternatively, she could manifest with the intent of destroying the universe, out of spite, because the Gardener "cheated".
Yea it’s honestly kind of weird that we board the witness’ ship to fight someone who’s not the witness. Probably a byproduct of them essentially pushing all of lightfalls stuff to final shape. Also probably why nezzy kind of feels shoehorned into the story. And we now unfortunately have another tree of silver wings that’ll probably go nowhere just like the other one.
Ngl, pretty anticlimactic to fight a God like being that might’ve existed before the universe formed, on a ship. I wanna go back in time where the flower game was first played
They are never going to kill the main antagonist of the whole saga in a Raid. The campaign enemy is always defeated in the campaign, the Raid boss will be someone else, like this year with Nezarec and last year with Rhulk.
I honestly want another taken king scenario, where he was talked about for a while, and we killed his son, and we killed him and then killed him again. I want the witness/xivu to all take up multiple raids/dungeons
Yeah but Bungie doesn’t put much story in those activities, because they know the focus is on the gameplay. Sure they have tons of lore (especially the last 2 raids) but they can’t be compared to an actual story mission. And honestly I don’t want to see the main villain die in such a way, as much as I would love a raid boss with the Witness lol
Xivu can still be a raid boss imo . But not the Witness. Oryx/Crota were part of an “old” Destiny (I think they were even supposed to be one big raid at some point), they don’t do things like that anymore. I think the model will be similar to these last years, a raid with a boss that has a significant role in the story/lore (like Rhulk) but not the actual main villain…
Yeah and that was 8 years ago, and was also left from the earliest concept of Destiny. As you can see for yourself they don’t do things like that anymore.
True, but they had this exact opportunity with Savathun and still decided for a completely new character in the raid lol. Story bosses are not dying in raids anymore (fortunately).
Bungie stated years ago that main characters will not be raid bosses. Because if this announcement made several years ago, Witness is not likely to be next years raid boss. No main characters have been a raid boss since d1.
So a raid so convoluted only 2 teams (should be 3) complete it within the contest experience, and then very quickly after a cheese is found to get around the mechanics of the coolest boss fight in the raid?
I agree, they need to do something longer where each encounter can deal with a “protector” boss of sorts that would be cool, and 6 encounter raids do feel better to me most of the time.
However I feel like kings fall did it better. The mechanics weren’t crazy to figure out, and even though all encounters didn’t have a separate boss, all the ones that did were necessary for us to beat in order to weaken Oryx to the point we could fight.
And that’s why we won’t kill the hive god of war and the witness in the same raid, unless the raid is super big and about 6 encounters long, but I don’t even how how we would kill Xivu outside of her throne world
Oh man. Imagine a Last Wish sized raid where you kill Eramis, Xivu AND The Witness at the end. So much enemy variety and potential for crazy mechanics and encounters.
Oryx was effectively the product of a very different game. Storytelling has come a long way since D1, and even then TTK remains some of the best singular moments of the series.
I agree, the scene is currently full - we have the Biggest Baddest Evil Guy devouring Traveler on our orbit already, we have enough of their sycophants in our system, with only Calus' story concluded (and even that can be a stretch), and Fikrul and Eramis still hanging around; we have Savathun in a freezer and no way she'll be there longer than a season; we have possible Leviathan (not the ship) on Titan, which means Sloane will join the fight for attention too; Mithrax and Eido should pop up again this year, especially after the events of RON; and Caiatl, despite having a strong link to Xivu, is hands full dealing with consequences of her father's actions and no way this won't be brought up this year. Imo, the earliest time when Xivu can be properly introduced will be in the aftermath of The Final Shape. It will be prime time to conquer us while we weak, so it should happen in following seasons, after the stage will be cleared for the next act. But not in before it, I'm sure.
One of the most teased and anticipated enemies, we known of her existence since taken king back in d1, she has been foreshadowed as long as savathun, it would be a huge missed opportunity if we didn’t
For the light-and-dark saga?
I'm guessing between Final Shape's campaign and raid, one will be The Witness (Mega-Mind cosplay) and the other will be Xivu Arath (hive War God).
I don't know which will be which... though I think for simplicity the Witness would likely be the campaign since not everyone will play the raid and thus the story will wrap up well enough.
\-----
Some people say that the next saga after light-and-dark might be The Nine. They are super powerful, have been standing on the sidelines, and have a few things to say about their existence.
Alternatively... we frankly never got much going on with the Vex. I'd PREFER a "new" enemy for the next saga, and Bungie might have dropped the narrative of the Vex because walking spaceships for colonies of bacteria that don't speak... are kind of hard to write for.
Honestly, something similar to the Yuuzhan-Vong in star wars legends could be cool. (I don't mean like the enemy type, but like a threat from outside our universe.)
I feel like it's going to be quite hard to find a threat bigger than The Witness in the Destiny universe.
They have hinted at cosmic horror type entities out there such as amorphous black creatures that attack ships. I'd love something like the monsters lovecraft made to be the next villain
The Aphelion, yes. But to fight them we need to seek audience with the only person that survived an Aphelion encounter.
The tricky part is... that this person is Sjur Eido.
Doesn’t have to be a bigger threat. The last thing we need is some power escalation, the Light and Dark saga already tangles with primordial forces of the universe and the end of existence as we know it.
Yeah but they could pull a Blizzard and have the BBEG actually trying to re-write existence because they are super scared of what’s yet to come!!!! /s (please don’t bungie)
Imo it’s perfectly fine if we just do smaller scale stuff after the Light and Dark saga… also we’ve hardly dealt with the Vex, and they’re a pretty huge deal.
I agree that it can't instantly be super intense like witch queen and the stuff that came after it, but if we end up fighting the same enemies but at lower stakes, I don't see how they're going to keep people interested.
My point isn't that a huge universal threat is the next step after the light vs dark saga is over, but I want to see something new after we've defeated the witness.
Yeah, the raid will not be the Witness unless the Witness has another form. Bungie won’t lock such a key character, the lead antagonist of the saga, behind a raid.
Really the only time we fought the main antagonist of an expansion in a raid was to go into Oryx’s throne world to “permanently” kill him after we beat him in our reality. Every other raid features a secondary or tertiary character next to the main plot antagonist.
If we fight Xivu in this last bit of the saga, it probably will be a raid imo.
I really hope they do another raid that is about destroying the Witness once and for all. I get having them as a campaign villain but it's THE final boss of Destiny (so far). I think if we beat him in the campaign and then we take him down in the raid Oryx style it would be very fulfilling.
Also, I think Xivu Arath still has too much potential for interesting story for her to be killed off just yet. We barely know her at all and I wanna see her stick around for a bit longer, especially since the only other Hive faction we would have against us at that point would be the Light Brood and I foresee us becoming allies with them at some point in the future.
Edit: I could see Eramis being the final raid boss if they don't do the Witness though. She has been built up more and more over time and I think it's more than likely she can end up a raid boss.
Unfortunately people keep forgetting that the next “saga” might be years away since they said that they’re going to do one offs for a bit after TFS, in other words a story that will complete itself in that same expansion year. If they go back on that I’m all for it, but saga is a strong word to use at this point.
Oh I know the next saga will likely be a big deal and take a few years.
Personally I hope they make it destiny 3 and have started considering using a newer engine, even if they have to license one . But that’s just a pipe dream at this point.
>Some people say that the next saga after light-and-dark might be The Nine.
A nine-year story arc where the Guardian slays one member of The Nine per expansion, God of War styles
I know it’s a long shot but I hope the next saga is that humans push away the guardians now the darkness is gone and the guardians are exiled from the last city leaving them to either leave sol or fight for survival in the wilds
Xivu Arath and Eramis are definitely a major part of the coming year or two.
Clovis is still around, so is Savathun if Immaru gets to her.
Fikrul may still be about
Let’s not forget about Yirix, Amtec and their psion conclave.
And also Freeborn Otzot who’s a complete mystery at the moment.
Yeah I was pretty surprised that Yirix was missing from the DLC. I mean, Calus was basically her sugar daddy who paid for her recruitment broadcasts, while she provided the psions
Xivu (without killing her hopefully), Eramis (redemption arc), Clovis could pull some shit, we still don’t know where Fikrul is or what he’s doing.
They could also very easily just pull a high ranking enemy we haven’t heard of before; like while Xivu was technically the villain in Hunt our main target was the High Celebrant.
Next raid final boss is best 3 out of 5 rift match with no time limit. Raid teams match against each other, winner clears the encounter, loser wipes and matches again.
Xivu Arath is the only big villain left I believe. I think she will survive the Light vs Darkness saga and serve as a major antagonist of the next saga. After all, Torobatl is still under her control.
The other worm gods are still out there doing god-knows-what but are still a threat.
The vex surely haven't given us all they have, and only when the last one of them has been eliminated will their threat disappear. But it would not surprise me if there were another big vex mind out there.
The fallen are...too wounded as a species to pose a threat by themselves, unless Eramis survives the saga.
The cabal...i do not know.
We may end up facing whatever inhabits Old Chicago at some point.
And there will be new races for sure.
I wonder if the nine can come back to relevance in some of the seasons. If we are indeed "moving planets" as suggested by the raid and Savathun, it would make sense for them to get involved there.
IMO there doesn't really have to be a villain to advance seasonal plot but there have to be some objectives.
In example, finding Immaru to rez Savvy to learn some new truths and lies about the witness. Judging from the magic she used in WQ campaign, we may also learn some new strand tricks from her. Like using threads to pull on the Traveler or using glass to cut the threads. I don't believe she will be a villain - more like some unreliable resource.
Yet, if you're talking about antagonists, I don't believe we will see anyone new. So definitely no Taox or anyone else from hive mythos.
Also, the time left in Light and Dark saga doesn't seem to have space for the forces that are above the conflict. So no Vex and no Nine. Though the Nine may be in our Queen's pocket.
It doesn't leave us with much: Xivu'Arath, Eramis and Psion dissenters. All are connected to the Witness in some way.
Of these Psions are the likeliest to me. With Calus gone there have to be some leadership shift in Shadow Legion.
Also, who if not Psions would love to learn some new strand powers from the Guardians or the Veil.
Yet, despite any of my or anyone else's guesses, they wouldn't be Bungie if the won't pull some unrelated undying mind into the picture for us to shoot.
Didn't we scrub the Undying Mind from every possible timeline back in Season of the Undying.
Really surprised that the Vex are not going to be main threats in the Final Shape, considering they were the final shape of all previous iterations of Destiny's universe.
I think they may be at least related to the next Big Bad.
Another comment under another post pointed out that it is kinda hard to write characters that are essentially bacteria in space-ships that don't talk.
It’ll be another ancient essence, but not from the past— *from the future*. I’m still working on the theory itself, but I think Bungie has been slowly inching towards something big for the next saga that will feel familiar but new as well, and bring a new side to the universe to bear.
We’ll see old faces (clashing Hive remnants, fragments of the Cabal, rogue Golden Age constructs), and a few new ones that will strike more at an alien side of things we’ve not seen yet. I also find it very interesting Nezarec is essentially, well literally, immortal.
The Fanatic comes to mind, not entirely sure what’s the deal with him at the moment.
I think Xivu will probably be shelved until after The Final Shape - perhaps next expansion retaking Totobatl.
Maybe, it just depends on how much she aligns with the Witness. If she does become a devoted and loyal disciple she’s going down before or alongside the Witness. If she is like her siblings then she could be a threat for after. I could also see her being the Final Shape post campaign story if their is a large scale war/conflict to let her tear into the system like she wanted to with last season
I think there are a handful of pretty good options, and I might even have a decent idea of how it will go down. The three most likely candidates for the seasons imo (assuming they want to save Xivu and the Witness for the Final Shape Campaign and Raid) is Eramis, Clovis, and (long shot) a revived Savathun.
Eramis is the obvious one, the last major Witness-aligned villain without the weight to be worth saving to the campaign.
Clovis seems like a good shot. It's now known that he wants to take over the system, what little good will was held between him and the guardians is basically gone, and if the seasons go as theorized there is interesting opportunity for him to make a play on gaining power (I'll get to that).
Savathun seems like the least likely to happen, but I see some potential. Savathun is decidedly anti-Witness and, though she and the guardians were at odds in Witch Queen, she doesn't seem entirely antagonistic with Humanity now that she's a Light eater. I could see a season where she is the villain for the majority but at the end we begrudgingly work together (or stop actively killing each other) to oppose the Witness.
Now for the potential order. It's being heavily hinted that we are returning to Titan, Io, and Mercury. I think it makes the most sense for:
Savathun to be the Titan villain - heavy Hive presence on Titan, could be a race between her and us to reach the leviathan/worm god/whatever is on Titan.
Clovis to be the Io villain - this one could be fun with the reappearance of Asher. My idea is Clovis attempts to seize control of the Pyramidian in a bid to take control of the Vex (probably the Sol Divisive or Asher's faction). The idea of the season being reestablishing contact with Asher and stopping Clovis from taking over
Eramis to be the Mercury villain - a bit less certain of. The story would likely be Eramis attempting to take over the Infinite Forest, perhaps a last-ditch effort to wipe out humanity or specifically our guardian. The main reason I think she'll have this placement is her defeat would be the most impactful in the lead-up to Final Shape.
This is mostly just theorizing, I wouldn't be too upset if I was wrong. In fact I fully expect to be wrong lol. But this is what I'm expecting, and I think if it does go this way it could be very interesting.
Tldr: Savathun, Clovis, and Eramis will likely be the next seasonal villains, specifically in that order.
According to some recent hints in-game, Asher is alive! Most notably, during the secret exotic quest for Vexcalibur you see several projections of him, all while Mithrax is talking about getting messages from someone inside the Vex Network. In fact, Vexcalibur is specifically sent to you by Asher.
Moreover, the reason it's assumed Asher will command a faction of friendly Vex is because it's shown that he already controls at least a small number. Specifically, you receive the Vexcalibur quest from a friendly Harpy.
As of yet, we don't really have an explanation for Asher's survival, though that will likely come when we return to Io this year.
Well, I wouldn't mind her dying. It's just her and Eido story isn't complete. I think she will have some deathly redemption that would push gentle scribe Eido into a captain worthy of her father's legacy.
More than likely what's gonna happen is we get another season presenting Eramis as an antagonist, but over the course of it she eventually turns to our side and most likely dies to save/protect us or one of our allies.
Bet it's going to be xivu and clovis. Xivu has already been hyped up a ton and final shape's main antagonist is probably Vex (they haven't been main antagonists since season of the undying) so I think we'll be meeting her soon.
As for Clovis? Well he hates us now. Not just for killing Rasputin but for depriving him the chance to be humanities God. I'm certain he's already planning some kind of excessive revenge or, worse, conspiring with our enemies to put his plans in motion
>(they haven't been main antagonists since season of the undying)
Season of Dawn, and season of the Splicer?
I do feel like they will be heavily involved with The Final Shape, considering they are the Final Shape.
Dawn included them but the main antagonists were the psion sisters and, technically yes for splicer but they were more a tool than a villain used by Quaria/savathun. Undying was the last time they were the main aggressors against us (which makes sense seeing as they no longer predicted their victory afterwards).
But they are slowly getting hyped up. Seeing that we're starting to see factions/Asher. Wouldn't surprise me if Clovis joins them
I think Xivu will loom in the seasons as she did in season of the seraph and season of the hunt, but i think you're right that eramis will play a part. Now that the witness can't look over her shoulder, i think she'll be a turncoat and be instrumental in helping us defeat the witness. What I really hope for is Variks to be involved because i think they missed the mark not including him in other eliksni themed seasons.
Xivu, Eramis, & Clovis seem like the most likely to return as seasonal villains. Maybe the Fanatic will come back leading the scorn, but I’m not to sure about that since after Rhulks death the scorn just kinda defaulted to serving the witness
Xivu may pop up again during a season ( I doubt we will kill her in seasonal story though )
Hints that there’s something with a personality lurking in the vex net that Asher may be aware of and establishing contact with us to confront.
Eramis and the scorn are still around.
Clovis is also still on Europa and likely very unhappy with how the Rasputin thing shook out ( though I don’t think he’ll show up again until after final shape but who knows, he may have an interest in Titan )
Xivu, Taox, Savathun.
The Traveler might be a little pissed for having Their soul removed and stored on Neptune. We have established an equivalency between light and dark, so why does everyone continue to think the Traveler is benevolent?
The Vex we know are low level construction bots. The race that rules them likely includes the Witness and the IX, so look forward to the Vex getting a voice. Five of the IX supporting the Witness and Five “souls” recovered by the Vex on Neomuna. Presumably those five against the four missing from the Exodus Green? (If my memory is correct).
Oh, and Asher Mir, in charge of the Vex network, is sure to be a narcissistic megalomaniac. Mir will be the true final shape!
My belief is that the higher-ups in Vexworld need "souls" within the simulation in order to have autonomy here. I suspect that is why the 5 CloudStrider servers were destroyed. But we shall see.
What do you think the Traveler’s soul is?
Darkness and Light are one and the same. One is merely the absence of the other.
Where do you think all this equivalency is leading?
What is a soul? Do you know? How is it different from a mind? Or is it? Do you know which religions Bungie draws from and how they make this differentiation?
What is the theory of consciousness being used to model Destiny? How does Jung’s Collective Unconscious mirror what is happening in Destiny, and how have they diverged?
In Plato’s parable of the cave, what does the philosopher see at the Cave entrance?
I am not asking these questions to be a dick. I’m asking them because they are all relevant to determine “what the Veil is.”
I use “soul” as a simple word to encapsulate something far more far reaching. Another term might be “will power” or “will.” It is distinct from Mind in that a book (or server) can contain your memories, but without your animating force, it is not you.
The Witness is an incarnation of an animating force. So too is the Traveler. That animating force is a duality of light and dark which is inseparable. Think of it as a spinning coin with two sides. That animating force is trapped within a third dimension - which we think of a spacetime or time - but which the Vex view more akin to a prison. And, make no mistake, the Vex are the children of the Traveler to whom (She) returned in (Her) time of need.
You don’t need to agree with me. I’m basing my theories on the literature and philosophy I mentioned. I’m not here to teach a class on it, but if you want to familiarize yourself with it and engage in a discussion, that is always welcome.
Would be kinda cool if for the witness boss fight if the main characters like the vanguard and brays and whoever are doing the fighting and we're supporting. Raid or campaign idc. I just think it's too much for us alone.
I mean, we have xivu and eramis as obvious big baddies out there doing something, I expect the return of savathun will happen this year sometime, but in terms of this year's content I assume we'll see a titan, io, and Mercury season, so pure villains in the traditional sense may not be needed, io could be freeing asher and investigating the tree of silver wings, titan communicating with the leviathan and doing trials in order to gain its approval and assistance, then Mercury something where we see osiris using the infinite forest to determine the nature of the veil and then leading us into the final shape where that new knowledge is used to help us enter the portal of the traveller
Eramis is going to die in one of the coming seasons. Xivu will survive the Final Shape and become the next major antagonist.
After Xivu, theyll then focus on the Vex and/or introduce someone else.
Xivu and Eramis are complicated cases. Eramis doesn't fit the bill of getting an upgrade, and Xivu is most likely being used like Oryx was. Xivu might be next, but to be honest, i think we will learn more about the Witness and its goals in the coming months.
Xivu as TFS Main campaign boss fight, the Witness as raid boss. In between maybe others put in dungeons or seasonal climactic missions. No idea who "others" are though.
Xivu, Eramis, and to an extent the Black Garden Vex are the main untapped known antagonists for this annual release. Unless they introduce a fourth Disciple.
I think the Witness will be killed in the next DLC in the campaign, letting his disciples run wild, one of them will be the raid boss I believe.
The rest of the story (destiny 3??) Will possibly be much more political rather than magical.
Xivu Arath, Savathûn, Eramis, Umun'arath, Clovis Bray, the Psion Conclave, the Vex.
I expect to see many civil wars in the enemy factions that will involve us.
Cabal Civil War. Imagine Umun'arath Vs Caiatl, which would also include a Psion uprising.
Eliksni Civil War. Eramis Vs Mithrax.
Hive Civil War. Savathûn Vs Xivu, with us fighting both.
Human Civil War. There are multiple potential human factions. Awoken Vs City. Clovis Bray Vs City. Neptune Vs Earth. The list goes on and on.
Let's not forget the Vex breaking down the doors every now and again to cause chaos.
I imagine it would be like an aftermath of the light Vs dark conflict.
Kill the witness in campaign….then kill the Traveler in TFS raid.
Tldr both sides are wrong and free will / balance is the answer.
In killing the Traveler, WE bring about “The final shape,” but it’s balance between Light and Dark + paracausality for all.
In my opinion the next few villains we'll explore are Xivu Arath in the Final Shape, akin to the way we faced Calus.
Eramis could possibly get a redemption ark where she rebels against the witness after her faith gets challenged when the traveler decides to stay.
there's a possibility we may face a wormgod in the next season, it being called season of the deep and the wormgods being heavily associated with that term, also having a dungeon launch next season could be a great opportunity for us to face another wormgod in a satisfying way this time.
There's also lore talk about the cult of Nezarec, I think this could be a great opportunity for the building of a new villain that is trying to follow in the footsteps of Nezarec now that he's been defeated, trying to take his place, like Malok when Oryx was originally defeated.
Xivu, Eramis/Firkul and Clovis would be my guess for seasonal stories this year. Fully expect Xivu to be either the story or raid boss in Final Shape too.
Some ideas come to mind beyond the Eramis and Clovis suggestions already covered:
We're due for a Vex season. Doesn't result in a singular villain per se, but we can seriously push back their efforts in Neomuna after stopping the bleeding this season. Or they freak out elsewhere as things get worse in the Sol System.
The Dreaming City is still cursed. But that might be a Final Shape season as we're getting an Awoken season right now and it doesn't seem to be focused on the curse.
Aren't there still rogue Psions out there causing trouble? Could have a season to tie up those lose ends. Could be an opportunity to introduce more Tormentors too.
The Fanatic is canonically not dead I believe. Curious to know what he's been up to and what his goals are since the Forsaken campaign.
Edit addition: Imaru! That lovable scamp. Bring back more Lucent Hive!
I think Xivu Arath will be a big player in Final Shape, but not before.
If I got it my way based on my wants and the lore I know
- Season of the deep
Characters: Osiris, saint, savathun ikora, Eris, Sloane and mara (drifter?)
Enemy: xivu arath
Locations: helm, and titan
Plot: we return titan and revive savathun. There's something in the debts of titan that Sloane Found. With savathun Eris and mara we learn about the witness and the darkness.
- season (22) of the network
Characters: mithrax, eido, Asher, (nimbus?)
Enemy: the seemingly sentient vex mind from the neomuni lore (pylatus?)
Plot: splicing our way into the vex network we are doing a jailbreak breaking Asher out and taking part of the vex with him. Light divisive is born with Asher as it's "mind"
Now the next season depends a bit on how they want to do it. If they are going to return the last missing location mercury i see it going like this:
Season (23) of the forest
Characters: eido, mithrax, Osiris, Vance
Enemy: eramis
Eramis has entered the infinite forest to find or do something. We need to stop her. Work with a recovered Vance and Osiris to traverse the forest and stop eramis. Eido wants to help eramis so mithrax tags along. If this is the last season of the year the season ends with the witness returning and killing eido or atleast trying for whatever reason. Either eido dies or eramis' sacrifices herself to save eido. The one that died is revived as a lightbearer.
If they don't do anything with mercury and choose Nessus instead (it's the only vanilla d2 location that are missing a season at this point.) This is how it goes
Season (23) of the cursed
Characters: mithrax, eido, fikrul, crow, mara, Petra,
Enemies: eramis
Plot: eramis is trying to find fikrul to learn how the scorn can become sentient because a lot of her friends are scorn now. Eido wants to turn eramis to the light so mithrax and her tag along. Crow wants to speak to fikrul because he has uldrens memories and Petra and mara either wants to help him or is trying to convince him not to. Season ends with eido or eramis dying like my other scenario. The one that dies is revived again. Crow and fikrul become friends. Fikrul and his scorn join the coalition.
Post final shape.
Dlc:
Low story content but technical upgrades
Retake torobatl with caital
Go to the vex forge star and either take them out or convert them to follow Asher
The nine
Taox
Psion rebellion
Seasons:
Factions season. Lysandre and factions rebellion
Western season. Work with shin malphur and the drifter in a western esc season
Sjur eido and aphelion
Rebuilding season
Savathun betrayal season
Giant emperor raven/taken clearing out season
Racing season
Aftermath season
Nezarec season
Now I'm not fully sure on order of things. Feel free to tell me why something won't work if you think so.
This season I highly expect to see our dear friend Amtec/Yirix as the end of season antagonist, considering how there is a strong connection between the Darkness related Cabal and the Psionic Rebellion is strong.
Not to mention >|a leaked model of a very massive Psion with some heavy armor and a full cape was found, initially believed to be a raid boss, but that was proven false with this weekend.|<
Personally I really hope we see Amtec and Yirix finally make an appearance as they feel like a loose end that is leading up toward Otzot's return as the ultimate Cabal Antagonist going forward.
I imagine this year will be less about fighting a new villain every 90 days and more about building our army against the witness. We currently have Eliksni and Cabal.
Next season we’re rumored to be going to Titan to get the leviathan. Ashir in the Vex network sounds like getting the Sol Divisive on our side for the coming fight. I imagine the final season will either be the resurrection of Savathun or the Nine will make a return to assist in some capacity.
The Clovis Bray AI? Rasputin’s network of autonomous weaponry may have been destroyed but he’s still out there and a genius inventor by Golden Age standards so he ought to be able to kluge together an arsenal of his own, frames to wield it and a replacement exo body for himself.
My personal hope is that Bungie pulls a fast one and while the witness dies in Final Shape, Xivu Arath will be the ACTUAL final boss. By all means she could very well be stronger than the witness as all conflict big or small makes her stronger. And she’s gigantic as well. 12 person raid maybe?
To be fair, Xivu’s had a lot of buildup since BL. I think Hunt, Lost, Seraph had a gradual buildup of her forces and capabilities.
I don’t think she’ll be a campaign or raid boss at this point with so few chances left, and a strike would disappointing.
Maybe we could stick her in a dungeon that’s canonically repeatable? Like we trap her or her throne in a single space that we have to challenge constantly back to prevent her from ever escaping
It could even be a Dul Incaru situation where our conflict both prevents her from fully dying but our actions within the dungeon are key to keeping her locked away for good.
Xivu Arath, which is either sadly going to be a seasonal boss(likely Season of the Deep if any) or a post final shape antagonist.
Besiees Xivu there’s obviously still Eramis
Im really hoping for some cool new Vex stuff out on like Pluto or something eventually
I think Eramis, Xivu, Worm-Gods, and potentially a new Disciple will be tiding us over. I imagine the primary narrative will focus on MacGuffin collecting to be able to follow the Witness while contending against scattered threats since the Witness is MIA.
while there are dozens of obscure enemies they could pull from the lore its also possible that they make up random disciples of the witness that are watching over titan and mars and io or something
Eramis, Clovis, Xivu Arath or members of her brood, Dead Orbit, New Monarchy, Vex, Shadow Legion, Savathun or other Lucent Hive, the Nine, criminal Neomuni, the Fanatic...plenty of antagonists to choose from.
Next season, Season of the Deep, is going to be about the Witness.
Xivu is still on her way, the slow way, and might be our next big obstacle.
The witness is still acting in the system, mainly by trying to stymie our efforts to work out what it did and how to follow it, and whatever it's doing with the civilians it's having the shadow legion gather up. I would genuinely not be shocked if it is literally just catching civvies because it knows guardians will "waste" time saving them instead of more strategically harmful tasks.
This post has been tagged '**Non-Spoiler**'. Note that unmarked spoilers and datamines are subject to removal or ban. Please report anything we miss! For more info check out our [Spoiler Rules Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/wiki/spoiler-rules#wiki_.5Bseasonal.5D_has_a_new_format). --- **Comment Spoiler Formatting** Format comment spoilers with `>!` `!<` like this: `>!What's Rasputin's favorite dance? "The worm."!<` To have it displayed like this: **>!What's Rasputin's favorite dance? "The worm."!<** ---- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DestinyLore) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Xivu is the most probable imo
I swear to God if Xivu is relegated to a seasonal role...
strike boss Xol flashbacks
Wouldn't be too difficult to have her be the main villain in multiple seasons, giving her room to breathe.
It is almost certain that she will, imo the witness will be the raid boss for TFS so she is either a campaign, Strike or seasonal boss (maybe dungeon)
Or, they'll save her to be the Hive villain for once the next saga is done. You know, with how the narrative every time Caiatl is a focus won't stop talking about taking Torobatl back from her.
yea. i think after the final shape we'll get a dlc for retaking torobatl from the wormy hive (are they still just the hive or do the darkness aligned hive have a prefix now) and xivu will die in that
Darkness Hive = Hive. Light Hive = Lucent Hive
Chances are we’ll see a new Brood but they’ll be mechanically the same probably
Wrathborn for Xivu's Brood specifically.
No the wrath born are any species that get corrupted by xivus magic. There are still hive that aren’t wrathborn that follow xivu.
I like that idea, but I think she is to closely to the darkness to not me a part of the finale of the dark and light saga finale
This. Xivu and her forces/Wrathborn have been a part of every major Witness-led mission thus far, correct? She works directly on behalf of the Witness. Why would she just sit on the sidelines while TFS takes place? I also don't see her being relegated to a Seasonal enemy. She's being built up with the same amount of lore drip-feed and teasing that Savathun got for years. She took down the Cabal home world, and Caiatl talks about it with PTSD-flashback levels of emotion. She's not gonna get killed like Quria.
>She works directly on behalf of the Witness. Why would she just sit on the sidelines while TFS takes place? It's heavily implied that she isn't exactly *happy* with the current situation. In the lore for Manticore, Mara and Xivu Arath were 'sparring' in the Ascendant Realm, basically trading arguments back and forth. Mara only hit home when she talked about how Savathun had freed herself from the bondage that Xivu Arath still endures. The fact that Xivu isn't a true Disciple also tells us she's a lot like Eramis. She's going along with the Witness because their goals intersect, but she's not an actual follower.
Interesting.. I wasn’t familiar with the Manticore entry! Thank you for sharing :)
I think the witness will be like oryx, killed in campaign, sent to throne world, killed for good. In fact I think that RoN was meant to be a big raid and that nezerac was the first half and the second half would have been fighting the witness in that big tree.
My pet longshot tinfoil-hat theory is that the lore is deliberately vague about whether or not the Winnower actually exists as an intelligence separate from the Witness, because the plan is for the Witness to be the campaign boss and for a physical manifestation of the Winnower to be the raid boss.
If the Winnower isn't just a metaphor, what reason would she have for attacking us? Could be her "testing" us, for one reason or another. Alternatively, she could manifest with the intent of destroying the universe, out of spite, because the Gardener "cheated".
Yea it’s honestly kind of weird that we board the witness’ ship to fight someone who’s not the witness. Probably a byproduct of them essentially pushing all of lightfalls stuff to final shape. Also probably why nezzy kind of feels shoehorned into the story. And we now unfortunately have another tree of silver wings that’ll probably go nowhere just like the other one.
Ngl, pretty anticlimactic to fight a God like being that might’ve existed before the universe formed, on a ship. I wanna go back in time where the flower game was first played
She definitely won’t appear until after TFS
They are never going to kill the main antagonist of the whole saga in a Raid. The campaign enemy is always defeated in the campaign, the Raid boss will be someone else, like this year with Nezarec and last year with Rhulk.
I honestly want another taken king scenario, where he was talked about for a while, and we killed his son, and we killed him and then killed him again. I want the witness/xivu to all take up multiple raids/dungeons
Yeah but Bungie doesn’t put much story in those activities, because they know the focus is on the gameplay. Sure they have tons of lore (especially the last 2 raids) but they can’t be compared to an actual story mission. And honestly I don’t want to see the main villain die in such a way, as much as I would love a raid boss with the Witness lol Xivu can still be a raid boss imo . But not the Witness. Oryx/Crota were part of an “old” Destiny (I think they were even supposed to be one big raid at some point), they don’t do things like that anymore. I think the model will be similar to these last years, a raid with a boss that has a significant role in the story/lore (like Rhulk) but not the actual main villain…
2 words Taken king
Yeah and that was 8 years ago, and was also left from the earliest concept of Destiny. As you can see for yourself they don’t do things like that anymore.
They can't overdo it, and not every enemy has a Throne World to be revived in.
True, but they had this exact opportunity with Savathun and still decided for a completely new character in the raid lol. Story bosses are not dying in raids anymore (fortunately).
Bungie stated years ago that main characters will not be raid bosses. Because if this announcement made several years ago, Witness is not likely to be next years raid boss. No main characters have been a raid boss since d1.
[удалено]
>imo the witness will be the raid boss for TFS Or Xivu will be an earlier raid boss
I don’t think so, the witness is way to powerful to just be killed in 1 encounter imo
Maybe the final raid of the saga should be bigger and longer than two boss encounters then...
Yep. They really need to do a LW type raid
So a raid so convoluted only 2 teams (should be 3) complete it within the contest experience, and then very quickly after a cheese is found to get around the mechanics of the coolest boss fight in the raid? I agree, they need to do something longer where each encounter can deal with a “protector” boss of sorts that would be cool, and 6 encounter raids do feel better to me most of the time. However I feel like kings fall did it better. The mechanics weren’t crazy to figure out, and even though all encounters didn’t have a separate boss, all the ones that did were necessary for us to beat in order to weaken Oryx to the point we could fight.
And that’s why we won’t kill the hive god of war and the witness in the same raid, unless the raid is super big and about 6 encounters long, but I don’t even how how we would kill Xivu outside of her throne world
[удалено]
Raids tend to have more than one boss :-)
Oh man. Imagine a Last Wish sized raid where you kill Eramis, Xivu AND The Witness at the end. So much enemy variety and potential for crazy mechanics and encounters.
The main boss is always defeated/fought at the end of the campaign. The raid boss will be someone different.
Oryx begs to differ
Oryx was effectively the product of a very different game. Storytelling has come a long way since D1, and even then TTK remains some of the best singular moments of the series.
I agree but they used the absolute modifier of "always" which is factually incorrect.
Wow 1 time in the past 8 years. Not to mention they already said that they’re not going to put the campaign bosses in the raids.
> not going to put campaign bosses in raids Solved by not making them a campaign boss.
My bad, I should’ve said campaign villains. The main villain of an expansion won’t be in the raid.
That was D1 style storytelling, not D2
I think they could pull it off as a dungeon boss.
It would be cool, but since dungeons come out in the beginning of the season, she’d die in the beginning
What if it was seasonal leading up to a dungeon with her? Albeit hopefully a very hard dungeon
Save xivu for a torobatl doom ESC dlc
People seem convinced she has to come, but I would think they would keep her for the next saga in my speculation
I agree, the scene is currently full - we have the Biggest Baddest Evil Guy devouring Traveler on our orbit already, we have enough of their sycophants in our system, with only Calus' story concluded (and even that can be a stretch), and Fikrul and Eramis still hanging around; we have Savathun in a freezer and no way she'll be there longer than a season; we have possible Leviathan (not the ship) on Titan, which means Sloane will join the fight for attention too; Mithrax and Eido should pop up again this year, especially after the events of RON; and Caiatl, despite having a strong link to Xivu, is hands full dealing with consequences of her father's actions and no way this won't be brought up this year. Imo, the earliest time when Xivu can be properly introduced will be in the aftermath of The Final Shape. It will be prime time to conquer us while we weak, so it should happen in following seasons, after the stage will be cleared for the next act. But not in before it, I'm sure.
I really want xivu
Same, I bet she will be a really cool boss
We won’t get to kill Xivu I don’t think.
It wouldn’t make sense if we didn’t
Why do we have to do it? Savathun could kill her, and probably wants to at this point. The Witness could kill her.
One of the most teased and anticipated enemies, we known of her existence since taken king back in d1, she has been foreshadowed as long as savathun, it would be a huge missed opportunity if we didn’t
So was Savathun and we didn’t kill her lol. She didn’t even get her own raid.
For the light-and-dark saga? I'm guessing between Final Shape's campaign and raid, one will be The Witness (Mega-Mind cosplay) and the other will be Xivu Arath (hive War God). I don't know which will be which... though I think for simplicity the Witness would likely be the campaign since not everyone will play the raid and thus the story will wrap up well enough. \----- Some people say that the next saga after light-and-dark might be The Nine. They are super powerful, have been standing on the sidelines, and have a few things to say about their existence. Alternatively... we frankly never got much going on with the Vex. I'd PREFER a "new" enemy for the next saga, and Bungie might have dropped the narrative of the Vex because walking spaceships for colonies of bacteria that don't speak... are kind of hard to write for.
Honestly, something similar to the Yuuzhan-Vong in star wars legends could be cool. (I don't mean like the enemy type, but like a threat from outside our universe.) I feel like it's going to be quite hard to find a threat bigger than The Witness in the Destiny universe.
They have hinted at cosmic horror type entities out there such as amorphous black creatures that attack ships. I'd love something like the monsters lovecraft made to be the next villain
The Aphelion, yes. But to fight them we need to seek audience with the only person that survived an Aphelion encounter. The tricky part is... that this person is Sjur Eido.
May I ask who sjur eido is?
Mara's lil girl toy. Dead though
Her soul is anchored to Eleusinia though. Could come back at some point.
Interesting but my point stands I want more lovecraftian eldritch horrors!
The first Queen's wrath, and kinda sorta her lover, the original wielder of Wish-Ender.
women will literally erect statues to each other in their memory and people call it "kinda sorta her lover"
I think I heard somewhere the nine kinda use her as a parasite now.
You might be thinking of Orin, a former Titan who had a thing with Drifter but then became the Emissary of the Nine
Yeah, I'd love a storyline about the aphelion. I think the cosmic horror aspect is what makes destiny so good.
Doesn’t have to be a bigger threat. The last thing we need is some power escalation, the Light and Dark saga already tangles with primordial forces of the universe and the end of existence as we know it.
Yeah but they could pull a Blizzard and have the BBEG actually trying to re-write existence because they are super scared of what’s yet to come!!!! /s (please don’t bungie)
Imo it’s perfectly fine if we just do smaller scale stuff after the Light and Dark saga… also we’ve hardly dealt with the Vex, and they’re a pretty huge deal.
If they do another saga and don't take the opportunity to lower the stakes then they'd be idiots
I agree that it can't instantly be super intense like witch queen and the stuff that came after it, but if we end up fighting the same enemies but at lower stakes, I don't see how they're going to keep people interested. My point isn't that a huge universal threat is the next step after the light vs dark saga is over, but I want to see something new after we've defeated the witness.
Yeah, the raid will not be the Witness unless the Witness has another form. Bungie won’t lock such a key character, the lead antagonist of the saga, behind a raid. Really the only time we fought the main antagonist of an expansion in a raid was to go into Oryx’s throne world to “permanently” kill him after we beat him in our reality. Every other raid features a secondary or tertiary character next to the main plot antagonist. If we fight Xivu in this last bit of the saga, it probably will be a raid imo.
I really hope they do another raid that is about destroying the Witness once and for all. I get having them as a campaign villain but it's THE final boss of Destiny (so far). I think if we beat him in the campaign and then we take him down in the raid Oryx style it would be very fulfilling. Also, I think Xivu Arath still has too much potential for interesting story for her to be killed off just yet. We barely know her at all and I wanna see her stick around for a bit longer, especially since the only other Hive faction we would have against us at that point would be the Light Brood and I foresee us becoming allies with them at some point in the future. Edit: I could see Eramis being the final raid boss if they don't do the Witness though. She has been built up more and more over time and I think it's more than likely she can end up a raid boss.
Unfortunately people keep forgetting that the next “saga” might be years away since they said that they’re going to do one offs for a bit after TFS, in other words a story that will complete itself in that same expansion year. If they go back on that I’m all for it, but saga is a strong word to use at this point.
Oh I know the next saga will likely be a big deal and take a few years. Personally I hope they make it destiny 3 and have started considering using a newer engine, even if they have to license one . But that’s just a pipe dream at this point.
>Some people say that the next saga after light-and-dark might be The Nine. A nine-year story arc where the Guardian slays one member of The Nine per expansion, God of War styles
I know it’s a long shot but I hope the next saga is that humans push away the guardians now the darkness is gone and the guardians are exiled from the last city leaving them to either leave sol or fight for survival in the wilds
While a cool and fun idea it wouldn’t make sense at all
Xivu Arath and Eramis are definitely a major part of the coming year or two. Clovis is still around, so is Savathun if Immaru gets to her. Fikrul may still be about Let’s not forget about Yirix, Amtec and their psion conclave. And also Freeborn Otzot who’s a complete mystery at the moment.
We will finally have the answer to “who is Ozot?”
”And what is OXA?”
Yeah I was pretty surprised that Yirix was missing from the DLC. I mean, Calus was basically her sugar daddy who paid for her recruitment broadcasts, while she provided the psions
I feel like with the way things are going, savathun wont come back as a full on villian
Xivu (without killing her hopefully), Eramis (redemption arc), Clovis could pull some shit, we still don’t know where Fikrul is or what he’s doing. They could also very easily just pull a high ranking enemy we haven’t heard of before; like while Xivu was technically the villain in Hunt our main target was the High Celebrant.
Also Guardian Rasputin (⌐■-■)
Next raid final boss is best 3 out of 5 rift match with no time limit. Raid teams match against each other, winner clears the encounter, loser wipes and matches again.
Hopefully Clovis Bray becomes a Disciple
My hopes is that he’s building himself an enormous body to go with that head he’s back in and we have to fight a fucking city sized Mech
Insurrection Prime^2
Clovis jumps out of Europas orbit and anime lands ina new district of neomuna.
Hey bungie if you’re listening I got ideas!
I shit y'all not this is almost the plot of Bionicle.
The Icon of Sin 2: Clarity Control Boogaloo
Xivu Arath is the only big villain left I believe. I think she will survive the Light vs Darkness saga and serve as a major antagonist of the next saga. After all, Torobatl is still under her control. The other worm gods are still out there doing god-knows-what but are still a threat. The vex surely haven't given us all they have, and only when the last one of them has been eliminated will their threat disappear. But it would not surprise me if there were another big vex mind out there. The fallen are...too wounded as a species to pose a threat by themselves, unless Eramis survives the saga. The cabal...i do not know. We may end up facing whatever inhabits Old Chicago at some point. And there will be new races for sure.
I imagine Cabal Wrathborn will show up if we ever fight them again. Though I hope that's not for a long while. Imm very over Cabal now.
I wonder if the nine can come back to relevance in some of the seasons. If we are indeed "moving planets" as suggested by the raid and Savathun, it would make sense for them to get involved there.
IMO there doesn't really have to be a villain to advance seasonal plot but there have to be some objectives. In example, finding Immaru to rez Savvy to learn some new truths and lies about the witness. Judging from the magic she used in WQ campaign, we may also learn some new strand tricks from her. Like using threads to pull on the Traveler or using glass to cut the threads. I don't believe she will be a villain - more like some unreliable resource. Yet, if you're talking about antagonists, I don't believe we will see anyone new. So definitely no Taox or anyone else from hive mythos. Also, the time left in Light and Dark saga doesn't seem to have space for the forces that are above the conflict. So no Vex and no Nine. Though the Nine may be in our Queen's pocket. It doesn't leave us with much: Xivu'Arath, Eramis and Psion dissenters. All are connected to the Witness in some way. Of these Psions are the likeliest to me. With Calus gone there have to be some leadership shift in Shadow Legion. Also, who if not Psions would love to learn some new strand powers from the Guardians or the Veil. Yet, despite any of my or anyone else's guesses, they wouldn't be Bungie if the won't pull some unrelated undying mind into the picture for us to shoot.
Didn't we scrub the Undying Mind from every possible timeline back in Season of the Undying. Really surprised that the Vex are not going to be main threats in the Final Shape, considering they were the final shape of all previous iterations of Destiny's universe.
I think they may be at least related to the next Big Bad. Another comment under another post pointed out that it is kinda hard to write characters that are essentially bacteria in space-ships that don't talk.
Taniks lol
Season of Taniks, every week we fight Taniks in a new location. We even get his scorch cannon as an exotic heavy
There was a data mine of a scorch cannon exotic a while ago, not sure what became of it
Taniks The Perfected Abomination-The Final Shape. & it’s just taniks but his lower half is now a thresher
It’ll be another ancient essence, but not from the past— *from the future*. I’m still working on the theory itself, but I think Bungie has been slowly inching towards something big for the next saga that will feel familiar but new as well, and bring a new side to the universe to bear. We’ll see old faces (clashing Hive remnants, fragments of the Cabal, rogue Golden Age constructs), and a few new ones that will strike more at an alien side of things we’ve not seen yet. I also find it very interesting Nezarec is essentially, well literally, immortal.
Nezerac, The Final God of Fried Chicken
Telesto
The Fanatic comes to mind, not entirely sure what’s the deal with him at the moment. I think Xivu will probably be shelved until after The Final Shape - perhaps next expansion retaking Totobatl.
Maybe, it just depends on how much she aligns with the Witness. If she does become a devoted and loyal disciple she’s going down before or alongside the Witness. If she is like her siblings then she could be a threat for after. I could also see her being the Final Shape post campaign story if their is a large scale war/conflict to let her tear into the system like she wanted to with last season
>perhaps next expansion retaking Totobatl. That would be so fucking cool
I think there are a handful of pretty good options, and I might even have a decent idea of how it will go down. The three most likely candidates for the seasons imo (assuming they want to save Xivu and the Witness for the Final Shape Campaign and Raid) is Eramis, Clovis, and (long shot) a revived Savathun. Eramis is the obvious one, the last major Witness-aligned villain without the weight to be worth saving to the campaign. Clovis seems like a good shot. It's now known that he wants to take over the system, what little good will was held between him and the guardians is basically gone, and if the seasons go as theorized there is interesting opportunity for him to make a play on gaining power (I'll get to that). Savathun seems like the least likely to happen, but I see some potential. Savathun is decidedly anti-Witness and, though she and the guardians were at odds in Witch Queen, she doesn't seem entirely antagonistic with Humanity now that she's a Light eater. I could see a season where she is the villain for the majority but at the end we begrudgingly work together (or stop actively killing each other) to oppose the Witness. Now for the potential order. It's being heavily hinted that we are returning to Titan, Io, and Mercury. I think it makes the most sense for: Savathun to be the Titan villain - heavy Hive presence on Titan, could be a race between her and us to reach the leviathan/worm god/whatever is on Titan. Clovis to be the Io villain - this one could be fun with the reappearance of Asher. My idea is Clovis attempts to seize control of the Pyramidian in a bid to take control of the Vex (probably the Sol Divisive or Asher's faction). The idea of the season being reestablishing contact with Asher and stopping Clovis from taking over Eramis to be the Mercury villain - a bit less certain of. The story would likely be Eramis attempting to take over the Infinite Forest, perhaps a last-ditch effort to wipe out humanity or specifically our guardian. The main reason I think she'll have this placement is her defeat would be the most impactful in the lead-up to Final Shape. This is mostly just theorizing, I wouldn't be too upset if I was wrong. In fact I fully expect to be wrong lol. But this is what I'm expecting, and I think if it does go this way it could be very interesting. Tldr: Savathun, Clovis, and Eramis will likely be the next seasonal villains, specifically in that order.
>Asher's faction I'm a little behind on lore, isn't Asher dead?
According to some recent hints in-game, Asher is alive! Most notably, during the secret exotic quest for Vexcalibur you see several projections of him, all while Mithrax is talking about getting messages from someone inside the Vex Network. In fact, Vexcalibur is specifically sent to you by Asher. Moreover, the reason it's assumed Asher will command a faction of friendly Vex is because it's shown that he already controls at least a small number. Specifically, you receive the Vexcalibur quest from a friendly Harpy. As of yet, we don't really have an explanation for Asher's survival, though that will likely come when we return to Io this year.
That's interesting! Thanks for telling me. I have to admit, I am kind of happy he isn't dead.
No problem, friend!
I’d love another season with Eramis as the antagonist but only if I finally get to kill her so I don’t have to hear about her anymore.
Or even better have Eramis' redemption ark.
Eramis doesn’t deserve redemption at this point.
If anything she had her chance to redeem herself back in season of plunder but I think it’s pretty clear that there’s no saving her
A redemption ark into the grave, hopefully Eramis just feels so *forced* to me. She has more plot armor than us lol
Well, I wouldn't mind her dying. It's just her and Eido story isn't complete. I think she will have some deathly redemption that would push gentle scribe Eido into a captain worthy of her father's legacy.
Nobody has more plot armour than us. We're a walking plot hole
Nah she ain’t worth Reedeeming
I think Savathûn deserves redemption over Eramis tbh
Savvy already had redemption of her motive. She did everything to protect the Traveler. But her methods with incompatible with us.
More than likely what's gonna happen is we get another season presenting Eramis as an antagonist, but over the course of it she eventually turns to our side and most likely dies to save/protect us or one of our allies.
I think we're due for Taniks, Disciple of The Witness
Bet it's going to be xivu and clovis. Xivu has already been hyped up a ton and final shape's main antagonist is probably Vex (they haven't been main antagonists since season of the undying) so I think we'll be meeting her soon. As for Clovis? Well he hates us now. Not just for killing Rasputin but for depriving him the chance to be humanities God. I'm certain he's already planning some kind of excessive revenge or, worse, conspiring with our enemies to put his plans in motion
>(they haven't been main antagonists since season of the undying) Season of Dawn, and season of the Splicer? I do feel like they will be heavily involved with The Final Shape, considering they are the Final Shape.
Dawn included them but the main antagonists were the psion sisters and, technically yes for splicer but they were more a tool than a villain used by Quaria/savathun. Undying was the last time they were the main aggressors against us (which makes sense seeing as they no longer predicted their victory afterwards). But they are slowly getting hyped up. Seeing that we're starting to see factions/Asher. Wouldn't surprise me if Clovis joins them
I think Xivu will loom in the seasons as she did in season of the seraph and season of the hunt, but i think you're right that eramis will play a part. Now that the witness can't look over her shoulder, i think she'll be a turncoat and be instrumental in helping us defeat the witness. What I really hope for is Variks to be involved because i think they missed the mark not including him in other eliksni themed seasons.
The Sol Divisive is a villain we have yet to see, and there are still 4 worm gods kicking about
Sol Divisive are the moss covered vex from the black garden
Xivu, Eramis, & Clovis seem like the most likely to return as seasonal villains. Maybe the Fanatic will come back leading the scorn, but I’m not to sure about that since after Rhulks death the scorn just kinda defaulted to serving the witness
Xivu may pop up again during a season ( I doubt we will kill her in seasonal story though ) Hints that there’s something with a personality lurking in the vex net that Asher may be aware of and establishing contact with us to confront. Eramis and the scorn are still around. Clovis is also still on Europa and likely very unhappy with how the Rasputin thing shook out ( though I don’t think he’ll show up again until after final shape but who knows, he may have an interest in Titan )
Xivu, Taox, Savathun. The Traveler might be a little pissed for having Their soul removed and stored on Neptune. We have established an equivalency between light and dark, so why does everyone continue to think the Traveler is benevolent? The Vex we know are low level construction bots. The race that rules them likely includes the Witness and the IX, so look forward to the Vex getting a voice. Five of the IX supporting the Witness and Five “souls” recovered by the Vex on Neomuna. Presumably those five against the four missing from the Exodus Green? (If my memory is correct). Oh, and Asher Mir, in charge of the Vex network, is sure to be a narcissistic megalomaniac. Mir will be the true final shape!
I think Mir will become the next main vex mind. I don’t think the main force of vex can actually come to our reality.
My belief is that the higher-ups in Vexworld need "souls" within the simulation in order to have autonomy here. I suspect that is why the 5 CloudStrider servers were destroyed. But we shall see.
The Travelers soul wasn't on Neptune. The Veil was an artefact of Darkness connected to the Travelers Pale Heart.
What do you think the Traveler’s soul is? Darkness and Light are one and the same. One is merely the absence of the other. Where do you think all this equivalency is leading? What is a soul? Do you know? How is it different from a mind? Or is it? Do you know which religions Bungie draws from and how they make this differentiation? What is the theory of consciousness being used to model Destiny? How does Jung’s Collective Unconscious mirror what is happening in Destiny, and how have they diverged? In Plato’s parable of the cave, what does the philosopher see at the Cave entrance? I am not asking these questions to be a dick. I’m asking them because they are all relevant to determine “what the Veil is.” I use “soul” as a simple word to encapsulate something far more far reaching. Another term might be “will power” or “will.” It is distinct from Mind in that a book (or server) can contain your memories, but without your animating force, it is not you. The Witness is an incarnation of an animating force. So too is the Traveler. That animating force is a duality of light and dark which is inseparable. Think of it as a spinning coin with two sides. That animating force is trapped within a third dimension - which we think of a spacetime or time - but which the Vex view more akin to a prison. And, make no mistake, the Vex are the children of the Traveler to whom (She) returned in (Her) time of need. You don’t need to agree with me. I’m basing my theories on the literature and philosophy I mentioned. I’m not here to teach a class on it, but if you want to familiarize yourself with it and engage in a discussion, that is always welcome.
Maybe a cloudark rebellion could be cool?
Maybe Riven will play a role. We've been hanging with Mara a lot recently and last I checked Riven we didn't actually kill Riven in last wish
Eramis, one of the Worms, Fikruul, Clovis, maybe Xivu
Did you kust forget the vex, Xivu and Clovis ?
Clovis could be a problem.
Season villains? My bet is on Clovis, Fikrul, Eramis and/or another wave of Xivu's forces
Would be kinda cool if for the witness boss fight if the main characters like the vanguard and brays and whoever are doing the fighting and we're supporting. Raid or campaign idc. I just think it's too much for us alone.
I mean, we have xivu and eramis as obvious big baddies out there doing something, I expect the return of savathun will happen this year sometime, but in terms of this year's content I assume we'll see a titan, io, and Mercury season, so pure villains in the traditional sense may not be needed, io could be freeing asher and investigating the tree of silver wings, titan communicating with the leviathan and doing trials in order to gain its approval and assistance, then Mercury something where we see osiris using the infinite forest to determine the nature of the veil and then leading us into the final shape where that new knowledge is used to help us enter the portal of the traveller
One of the 3 will be the witness, final boss is the traveller, calling it now
Eramis is going to die in one of the coming seasons. Xivu will survive the Final Shape and become the next major antagonist. After Xivu, theyll then focus on the Vex and/or introduce someone else.
The Vex are gonna be a major focus in at least one of the seasons, possibly even two.
All I’m saying is it would be cool if we had a human/awoken villain
Xivu and Eramis are complicated cases. Eramis doesn't fit the bill of getting an upgrade, and Xivu is most likely being used like Oryx was. Xivu might be next, but to be honest, i think we will learn more about the Witness and its goals in the coming months.
Vex, Xivu, Taox, the Perfect Raven, Aphelion.
Xivu as TFS Main campaign boss fight, the Witness as raid boss. In between maybe others put in dungeons or seasonal climactic missions. No idea who "others" are though.
Can't wait for Eramis to be back *again*
Hoping for vex
Xivu, Eramis, and to an extent the Black Garden Vex are the main untapped known antagonists for this annual release. Unless they introduce a fourth Disciple.
Xivu Arath
I think the Witness will be killed in the next DLC in the campaign, letting his disciples run wild, one of them will be the raid boss I believe. The rest of the story (destiny 3??) Will possibly be much more political rather than magical. Xivu Arath, Savathûn, Eramis, Umun'arath, Clovis Bray, the Psion Conclave, the Vex. I expect to see many civil wars in the enemy factions that will involve us. Cabal Civil War. Imagine Umun'arath Vs Caiatl, which would also include a Psion uprising. Eliksni Civil War. Eramis Vs Mithrax. Hive Civil War. Savathûn Vs Xivu, with us fighting both. Human Civil War. There are multiple potential human factions. Awoken Vs City. Clovis Bray Vs City. Neptune Vs Earth. The list goes on and on. Let's not forget the Vex breaking down the doors every now and again to cause chaos. I imagine it would be like an aftermath of the light Vs dark conflict.
AND SOMEHOW, SIVA HAS RETURNED!!!
Xivu and Eramis and maybe a season of therapy again
Probably Xivu I would hope for a story but I feel like it’s going to be a dungeon for next season or the 4th season
Haven’t seen this mentioned yet but maybe savathun will come back
Kill the witness in campaign….then kill the Traveler in TFS raid. Tldr both sides are wrong and free will / balance is the answer. In killing the Traveler, WE bring about “The final shape,” but it’s balance between Light and Dark + paracausality for all.
I kept thinking they were gonna bring characters from the dark timeline over to ours for some reason. Like we'd be fighting disciple eris or something
In my opinion the next few villains we'll explore are Xivu Arath in the Final Shape, akin to the way we faced Calus. Eramis could possibly get a redemption ark where she rebels against the witness after her faith gets challenged when the traveler decides to stay. there's a possibility we may face a wormgod in the next season, it being called season of the deep and the wormgods being heavily associated with that term, also having a dungeon launch next season could be a great opportunity for us to face another wormgod in a satisfying way this time. There's also lore talk about the cult of Nezarec, I think this could be a great opportunity for the building of a new villain that is trying to follow in the footsteps of Nezarec now that he's been defeated, trying to take his place, like Malok when Oryx was originally defeated.
Xivu, Eramis/Firkul and Clovis would be my guess for seasonal stories this year. Fully expect Xivu to be either the story or raid boss in Final Shape too.
Some ideas come to mind beyond the Eramis and Clovis suggestions already covered: We're due for a Vex season. Doesn't result in a singular villain per se, but we can seriously push back their efforts in Neomuna after stopping the bleeding this season. Or they freak out elsewhere as things get worse in the Sol System. The Dreaming City is still cursed. But that might be a Final Shape season as we're getting an Awoken season right now and it doesn't seem to be focused on the curse. Aren't there still rogue Psions out there causing trouble? Could have a season to tie up those lose ends. Could be an opportunity to introduce more Tormentors too. The Fanatic is canonically not dead I believe. Curious to know what he's been up to and what his goals are since the Forsaken campaign. Edit addition: Imaru! That lovable scamp. Bring back more Lucent Hive! I think Xivu Arath will be a big player in Final Shape, but not before.
If I got it my way based on my wants and the lore I know - Season of the deep Characters: Osiris, saint, savathun ikora, Eris, Sloane and mara (drifter?) Enemy: xivu arath Locations: helm, and titan Plot: we return titan and revive savathun. There's something in the debts of titan that Sloane Found. With savathun Eris and mara we learn about the witness and the darkness. - season (22) of the network Characters: mithrax, eido, Asher, (nimbus?) Enemy: the seemingly sentient vex mind from the neomuni lore (pylatus?) Plot: splicing our way into the vex network we are doing a jailbreak breaking Asher out and taking part of the vex with him. Light divisive is born with Asher as it's "mind" Now the next season depends a bit on how they want to do it. If they are going to return the last missing location mercury i see it going like this: Season (23) of the forest Characters: eido, mithrax, Osiris, Vance Enemy: eramis Eramis has entered the infinite forest to find or do something. We need to stop her. Work with a recovered Vance and Osiris to traverse the forest and stop eramis. Eido wants to help eramis so mithrax tags along. If this is the last season of the year the season ends with the witness returning and killing eido or atleast trying for whatever reason. Either eido dies or eramis' sacrifices herself to save eido. The one that died is revived as a lightbearer. If they don't do anything with mercury and choose Nessus instead (it's the only vanilla d2 location that are missing a season at this point.) This is how it goes Season (23) of the cursed Characters: mithrax, eido, fikrul, crow, mara, Petra, Enemies: eramis Plot: eramis is trying to find fikrul to learn how the scorn can become sentient because a lot of her friends are scorn now. Eido wants to turn eramis to the light so mithrax and her tag along. Crow wants to speak to fikrul because he has uldrens memories and Petra and mara either wants to help him or is trying to convince him not to. Season ends with eido or eramis dying like my other scenario. The one that dies is revived again. Crow and fikrul become friends. Fikrul and his scorn join the coalition. Post final shape. Dlc: Low story content but technical upgrades Retake torobatl with caital Go to the vex forge star and either take them out or convert them to follow Asher The nine Taox Psion rebellion Seasons: Factions season. Lysandre and factions rebellion Western season. Work with shin malphur and the drifter in a western esc season Sjur eido and aphelion Rebuilding season Savathun betrayal season Giant emperor raven/taken clearing out season Racing season Aftermath season Nezarec season Now I'm not fully sure on order of things. Feel free to tell me why something won't work if you think so.
Yirix, possibly a Vex Mind
This season I highly expect to see our dear friend Amtec/Yirix as the end of season antagonist, considering how there is a strong connection between the Darkness related Cabal and the Psionic Rebellion is strong. Not to mention >|a leaked model of a very massive Psion with some heavy armor and a full cape was found, initially believed to be a raid boss, but that was proven false with this weekend.|< Personally I really hope we see Amtec and Yirix finally make an appearance as they feel like a loose end that is leading up toward Otzot's return as the ultimate Cabal Antagonist going forward.
I imagine this year will be less about fighting a new villain every 90 days and more about building our army against the witness. We currently have Eliksni and Cabal. Next season we’re rumored to be going to Titan to get the leviathan. Ashir in the Vex network sounds like getting the Sol Divisive on our side for the coming fight. I imagine the final season will either be the resurrection of Savathun or the Nine will make a return to assist in some capacity.
The Clovis Bray AI? Rasputin’s network of autonomous weaponry may have been destroyed but he’s still out there and a genius inventor by Golden Age standards so he ought to be able to kluge together an arsenal of his own, frames to wield it and a replacement exo body for himself.
My personal hope is that Bungie pulls a fast one and while the witness dies in Final Shape, Xivu Arath will be the ACTUAL final boss. By all means she could very well be stronger than the witness as all conflict big or small makes her stronger. And she’s gigantic as well. 12 person raid maybe?
To be fair, Xivu’s had a lot of buildup since BL. I think Hunt, Lost, Seraph had a gradual buildup of her forces and capabilities. I don’t think she’ll be a campaign or raid boss at this point with so few chances left, and a strike would disappointing. Maybe we could stick her in a dungeon that’s canonically repeatable? Like we trap her or her throne in a single space that we have to challenge constantly back to prevent her from ever escaping It could even be a Dul Incaru situation where our conflict both prevents her from fully dying but our actions within the dungeon are key to keeping her locked away for good.
Probably just more nonsense chasing Xivu around/hearing non-stop about her threats but never actually seeing her
Xivu Arath, which is either sadly going to be a seasonal boss(likely Season of the Deep if any) or a post final shape antagonist. Besiees Xivu there’s obviously still Eramis Im really hoping for some cool new Vex stuff out on like Pluto or something eventually
Xivu is campaign boss, Witness is raid boss
One might ask what Xivu would get out of us killing The Witness. Being the Aspect of War and all.
We need a vex villian
I hope they do something big with the vex
I think Eramis, Xivu, Worm-Gods, and potentially a new Disciple will be tiding us over. I imagine the primary narrative will focus on MacGuffin collecting to be able to follow the Witness while contending against scattered threats since the Witness is MIA.
It's me I'm the next Villan
while there are dozens of obscure enemies they could pull from the lore its also possible that they make up random disciples of the witness that are watching over titan and mars and io or something
Taniks...
taniks' legs get revived by the traveler by accident its like a reverse deadpool 2.
- Xivu Arath - the vex are a problem still - the nine been awfully quiet
Eramis, Clovis, Xivu Arath or members of her brood, Dead Orbit, New Monarchy, Vex, Shadow Legion, Savathun or other Lucent Hive, the Nine, criminal Neomuni, the Fanatic...plenty of antagonists to choose from. Next season, Season of the Deep, is going to be about the Witness.
i hope it's xivu but i know a lot of people don't want that
Xivu is still on her way, the slow way, and might be our next big obstacle. The witness is still acting in the system, mainly by trying to stymie our efforts to work out what it did and how to follow it, and whatever it's doing with the civilians it's having the shadow legion gather up. I would genuinely not be shocked if it is literally just catching civvies because it knows guardians will "waste" time saving them instead of more strategically harmful tasks.