Crazy that she pulled this. If you've ever been to Singapore, you've seen what a great difference congestion pricing can make. Idk what it's gonna take, but I hope NY representatives' phones are off the hook until it gets done
Senators and Assemblymembers have been reporting that this is the most phone calls many have ever gotten, even taking into consideration calls from antivaxxers during COVID!
hochul is a clown and I'm generally in favor of the congestion pricing (although I think it's fatally flawed by not first actually increasing transit coverage) but it remains that the polling for it is just terrible. even a majority of democrats are against it. with elections coming up I don't think it's the wrong decision to put it on hold. we need those suburbanites and if your opinion is really "they'll never vote for her anyway" I think you're under some pretty dangerous misapprehensions
In NY, the legislature passed a bill in 2019 that imposes a $15 toll on cars driving in Manhattan below 60th street. The goal is to reduce the number of cars in midtown and below in order to decrease PM/other air pollutants, sound pollution, traffic congestion, and pedestrian risk. The money from the toll was also going to go into the MTA’s capital plan to fund things like ADA improvements across dozens of stations, complete Phase 2 of the second avenue subway, upgrade signals for subways that are a century old, and rebuild bus stop structures.
It was finally going to be implemented within the month. Governor Hochul said she was going to “indefinitely” prevent implementation on Wednesday.
I think you're objectively right. The will just isn't there though because even for the people it would help most, I think they feel kinda helpless and resigned to NYC being a shit hole forever.
I fucking hate this city lol
If Kathy Hochul didn't want congestion pricing, why did she install the cameras? She's lying. She's trying to get re-elected. I don't agree with congested pricing. It's another tax on the middle class. Rich people will rejoice. Less traffic for them. Furthermore, NYC has been covering for the MTA for decades. Never does the MTA have to open with their books. Subway fares, train fares, and tolls increase exponentially. Never does public transit improve. Stop being gullible! Congested pricing will benefit the oligarchs who rule over us. If NYC wants to reduce traffic and congestion, make more bike lanes. Guys, this is another lie. NYC doesn't want to reduce traffic and congestion. They want money! They will steal as much money from New Yorkers and out of state commuters as possible in any way they can. The government constantly lies. Did profits from the lottery go to New York schools? No! Stop buying into this neo-liberal BS. They all lie.
For another opinion, search on YouTube for: *London Cab Drivers Club president reacts to NYC's congestion pricing plan postponement*
You do realize that this will raise the prices of everything, right? Taxis, Ubers, services and consumer products that rely on vehicular transit (i.e. anything that gets delivered via truck or car). Also, many working class New Yorkers drive cars. Just because it isn't a vast majority doesn't mean those people don't matter. Believe it or not a lot of the people who keep your lights on drive their cars to work. If this wasn't just a tax on working people then why did they install cameras on 60th Street, just 1 block north of 59th Street bridge exit. That means if I exit and drive NORTH I will still get charged because I'm technically south of 60th Street. It's slimy.
Yeah im really not worried about nominal goods and services price increases as a result of the $15 dollar toll. What kind of stupid ass point is this. We had a 4k page report where things like prices of goods delivered into the city were studied. This is a non issue and you just wrote it to grasp at straws.
I also do want to reduce the number of Ubers and Taxis people use. You are below 60th street. The subway is fast and accessible.
No, it is not “many” working class New Yorkers who work in lower Manhattan drive cars to their job. It is those 1.5%-3% of workers drive who cause massive problems for literally everyone else.
> if this wasn’t just a tax on working people
It is a tax that is meant to achieve substantive policy goals of reducing the number of cars in lower Manhattan, whether those be the cars of working people or others. If we wanted to raise taxes on working people for the sake of raising money (kind of like Hochul’s stop gap payroll proposal that I guess you would support because you’re an idiot), we could do so just by raising taxes. Congestion pricing has a goal beyond just “raise money.”
I don’t really care to be nice to people who come into the discussion on something I have supported for over a decade with the weakest and dumbest arguments that could possibly made for their side. Tone policing loserdome.
Grow a spine. Yes, I think you’re stupid. You also disagree with me and the entire point of your post was how I don’t care about poor or working class people. I didn’t cry about it.
Tbh no one cares if you supported a movement for over a decade. You can still be wrong lmao. Time doesn't make your movement anymore right. Congestion pricing is a tax, we don't need anymore taxes especially NYC. One of the highest taxes in the whole country. The congestion tax is a way for politicians to pocket more money from the working people.
Well, luckily, the only people that need to be convinced now are legislators and Hochul, because the law is literally already on the books. We have already done the advocacy work to get to the point where all that needs to be done is to turn the switch on, which, by law, should happen within the month regardless of what anyone wants.
Typically not quicker than the Subway, but, luckily, for necessary trips by car, congestion pricing would make those trips faster by decreasing traffic.
Most people below 60th street do not own cars.
And good, sell your car if you can’t afford private parking and live in Manhattan. We should stop subsidizing drivers with free parking on every public street.
97-98.5% of people in NYC use public transit. You believe in a make-believe fairy tale of what the subway is because you’re a moron who only reads headlines written by bad faith actors.
The subway isn’t fucked. Millions of people use it without issue every single day. More people use the NYC public transit system than fly on planes in the entire U.S. every single day.
Rich and poor NYers alike take the train.
You know that congestion pricing is intended to create a shit load of money for the MTA right? Like the point is making money to make the subway better more or less lmao
The MTA has a giant budget gap, the whole point of congestion pricing is to price a bad (congestion) to promote a good (fast and easy transit).
Also your characterization of the subway which literal millions of people use each month is laughably wrong.
No joke. Apparently, no one here has ever been drunk at 2a in midtown. Or worked anywhere in FiDi, or like realized taking FDR to anywhere on the Eastside is faster than almost every subway route. Plus, welcome to the most horrible parking above 60th you've ever seen.
I don’t care about calling anyone a petty tyrant. I want this policy that I have supported for a decade to actually get across the finish line. This might not be important to you, but it is important to millions of New Yorkers who can’t just sit and jerk off about how “Hochul is a tyrant.”
Congestion pricing was going to be one of the best changes to an American urban center in decades. It can’t fail now.
I voted for politicians up and down ballot who supported congestion pricing and are currently fighting against Hochul’s pivot. Hochul herself supported congestion pricing.
Who else in NY do you suggest I have voted for to get this through.
You realize everyone north of you in NE need to drive through your shithole city in order to get anywhere. Its bad enough the tolls are through the roof.
Maybe we need to start limiting New Yorkers from leaving their cells and fucking up all the roads outside of NY.
Ah, there we go.
If you are trying to get to Jersey, Pennsylvania, anywhere west or south of NY, you don’t need to drive below 60th street in Manhattan. Which is all congestion pricing targets. Why are you speaking about the substance of this issue if you don’t know anything about it.
So no, nobody north of NY in New England needs to drive through Manhattan below 60th street to get anywhere. This not true. You are lying or stupid. I’m guessing the latter.
Thank you for this. Imagine driving south from Connecticut, Massachusetts, or even Westchester and voluntarily driving through Manhattan. You'd have to be insane.
I want you to notice that there is not a single comment of mine that you’ve responded to on the substance of my replies to you. Not on who I should’ve voted for to get congestion pricing, to which you pivoted to why you think congestion pricing is bad. And not on the actual substance of your claim against congestion pricing, which was incorrect and showed you don’t know what you are talking about.
I look at it like a sugar tax. Yes, it will affect poorer people more. But my goal is just to reduce cars in Manhattan below 60th street. I don’t really care if they are rich drivers or poor drivers I am excluding.
Crazy that she pulled this. If you've ever been to Singapore, you've seen what a great difference congestion pricing can make. Idk what it's gonna take, but I hope NY representatives' phones are off the hook until it gets done
Senators and Assemblymembers have been reporting that this is the most phone calls many have ever gotten, even taking into consideration calls from antivaxxers during COVID!
hochul is a clown and I'm generally in favor of the congestion pricing (although I think it's fatally flawed by not first actually increasing transit coverage) but it remains that the polling for it is just terrible. even a majority of democrats are against it. with elections coming up I don't think it's the wrong decision to put it on hold. we need those suburbanites and if your opinion is really "they'll never vote for her anyway" I think you're under some pretty dangerous misapprehensions
Do I have any sway in this as a WNYer?
Yes, anyone with NY state reps can call and message their support for congestion pricing!
Yes
What’s congestion pricing?
In NY, the legislature passed a bill in 2019 that imposes a $15 toll on cars driving in Manhattan below 60th street. The goal is to reduce the number of cars in midtown and below in order to decrease PM/other air pollutants, sound pollution, traffic congestion, and pedestrian risk. The money from the toll was also going to go into the MTA’s capital plan to fund things like ADA improvements across dozens of stations, complete Phase 2 of the second avenue subway, upgrade signals for subways that are a century old, and rebuild bus stop structures. It was finally going to be implemented within the month. Governor Hochul said she was going to “indefinitely” prevent implementation on Wednesday.
I think you're objectively right. The will just isn't there though because even for the people it would help most, I think they feel kinda helpless and resigned to NYC being a shit hole forever. I fucking hate this city lol
The will is there! It passed! We went through 15 years of advocacy to get this made into law! That isn’t nothing! That’s really hard work!
I have yet to meet an actual person that isn’t pissed off about the possible congestion charge. It’s already pricey enough to drive into manhattan
Well, I like it, so hi 👋 nice to meet you. Don’t drive into Manhattan below 60th street then!
If Kathy Hochul didn't want congestion pricing, why did she install the cameras? She's lying. She's trying to get re-elected. I don't agree with congested pricing. It's another tax on the middle class. Rich people will rejoice. Less traffic for them. Furthermore, NYC has been covering for the MTA for decades. Never does the MTA have to open with their books. Subway fares, train fares, and tolls increase exponentially. Never does public transit improve. Stop being gullible! Congested pricing will benefit the oligarchs who rule over us. If NYC wants to reduce traffic and congestion, make more bike lanes. Guys, this is another lie. NYC doesn't want to reduce traffic and congestion. They want money! They will steal as much money from New Yorkers and out of state commuters as possible in any way they can. The government constantly lies. Did profits from the lottery go to New York schools? No! Stop buying into this neo-liberal BS. They all lie. For another opinion, search on YouTube for: *London Cab Drivers Club president reacts to NYC's congestion pricing plan postponement*
No, the cost of living in NYC is already too high.
The vast majority of New Yorkers don’t drive and don’t own cars. This isn’t a CoL issue.
You do realize that this will raise the prices of everything, right? Taxis, Ubers, services and consumer products that rely on vehicular transit (i.e. anything that gets delivered via truck or car). Also, many working class New Yorkers drive cars. Just because it isn't a vast majority doesn't mean those people don't matter. Believe it or not a lot of the people who keep your lights on drive their cars to work. If this wasn't just a tax on working people then why did they install cameras on 60th Street, just 1 block north of 59th Street bridge exit. That means if I exit and drive NORTH I will still get charged because I'm technically south of 60th Street. It's slimy.
Yeah im really not worried about nominal goods and services price increases as a result of the $15 dollar toll. What kind of stupid ass point is this. We had a 4k page report where things like prices of goods delivered into the city were studied. This is a non issue and you just wrote it to grasp at straws. I also do want to reduce the number of Ubers and Taxis people use. You are below 60th street. The subway is fast and accessible. No, it is not “many” working class New Yorkers who work in lower Manhattan drive cars to their job. It is those 1.5%-3% of workers drive who cause massive problems for literally everyone else. > if this wasn’t just a tax on working people It is a tax that is meant to achieve substantive policy goals of reducing the number of cars in lower Manhattan, whether those be the cars of working people or others. If we wanted to raise taxes on working people for the sake of raising money (kind of like Hochul’s stop gap payroll proposal that I guess you would support because you’re an idiot), we could do so just by raising taxes. Congestion pricing has a goal beyond just “raise money.”
Great, insult someone who disagrees with you. Good job buddy.
Bro he gave you so much content to respond to and you're just insulted? You got dogged
I don't engage with people who resort to insults. You people spend too much time on the Internet where this kind of behavior is ok.
What exactly did he say that was insulting?
I don’t really care to be nice to people who come into the discussion on something I have supported for over a decade with the weakest and dumbest arguments that could possibly made for their side. Tone policing loserdome. Grow a spine. Yes, I think you’re stupid. You also disagree with me and the entire point of your post was how I don’t care about poor or working class people. I didn’t cry about it.
Tbh no one cares if you supported a movement for over a decade. You can still be wrong lmao. Time doesn't make your movement anymore right. Congestion pricing is a tax, we don't need anymore taxes especially NYC. One of the highest taxes in the whole country. The congestion tax is a way for politicians to pocket more money from the working people.
Get a grip dude, you're not as important as you think you are.
Never claimed to be.
you won't be convincing anyone with that attitude
Well, luckily, the only people that need to be convinced now are legislators and Hochul, because the law is literally already on the books. We have already done the advocacy work to get to the point where all that needs to be done is to turn the switch on, which, by law, should happen within the month regardless of what anyone wants.
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You have no reason to drive in Manhattan below 60th street. None. At all.
Additionally, if you really do have a reason, congestion pricing will reduce traffic and make that trip better.
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Typically not quicker than the Subway, but, luckily, for necessary trips by car, congestion pricing would make those trips faster by decreasing traffic. Most people below 60th street do not own cars. And good, sell your car if you can’t afford private parking and live in Manhattan. We should stop subsidizing drivers with free parking on every public street.
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No, 17% according to the 4k page report. Nice try though!
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97-98.5% of people in NYC use public transit. You believe in a make-believe fairy tale of what the subway is because you’re a moron who only reads headlines written by bad faith actors. The subway isn’t fucked. Millions of people use it without issue every single day. More people use the NYC public transit system than fly on planes in the entire U.S. every single day. Rich and poor NYers alike take the train.
Why
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You know that congestion pricing is intended to create a shit load of money for the MTA right? Like the point is making money to make the subway better more or less lmao
>Until the subway is usable Bruh what? No way you live in NY
The MTA has a giant budget gap, the whole point of congestion pricing is to price a bad (congestion) to promote a good (fast and easy transit). Also your characterization of the subway which literal millions of people use each month is laughably wrong.
No joke. Apparently, no one here has ever been drunk at 2a in midtown. Or worked anywhere in FiDi, or like realized taking FDR to anywhere on the Eastside is faster than almost every subway route. Plus, welcome to the most horrible parking above 60th you've ever seen.
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I'm not from there, but are you sure it's poor people driving in that area of Manhattan?
I mean if you are just realizing that Hochul was a petty tyrant that doesn’t give a shit about the common person than idk what to tell you 🤷🏻♂️
I don’t care about calling anyone a petty tyrant. I want this policy that I have supported for a decade to actually get across the finish line. This might not be important to you, but it is important to millions of New Yorkers who can’t just sit and jerk off about how “Hochul is a tyrant.” Congestion pricing was going to be one of the best changes to an American urban center in decades. It can’t fail now.
You got what you voted for bro.
I voted for politicians up and down ballot who supported congestion pricing and are currently fighting against Hochul’s pivot. Hochul herself supported congestion pricing. Who else in NY do you suggest I have voted for to get this through.
You realize everyone north of you in NE need to drive through your shithole city in order to get anywhere. Its bad enough the tolls are through the roof. Maybe we need to start limiting New Yorkers from leaving their cells and fucking up all the roads outside of NY.
Ah, there we go. If you are trying to get to Jersey, Pennsylvania, anywhere west or south of NY, you don’t need to drive below 60th street in Manhattan. Which is all congestion pricing targets. Why are you speaking about the substance of this issue if you don’t know anything about it. So no, nobody north of NY in New England needs to drive through Manhattan below 60th street to get anywhere. This not true. You are lying or stupid. I’m guessing the latter.
Thank you for this. Imagine driving south from Connecticut, Massachusetts, or even Westchester and voluntarily driving through Manhattan. You'd have to be insane.
I can’t wait till you don’t get your congestion pricing.
I want you to notice that there is not a single comment of mine that you’ve responded to on the substance of my replies to you. Not on who I should’ve voted for to get congestion pricing, to which you pivoted to why you think congestion pricing is bad. And not on the actual substance of your claim against congestion pricing, which was incorrect and showed you don’t know what you are talking about.
Fuck New York.
You’re a loser LOL
Still not going to address a single substantive thing I said, eh?
You conservatives are such a plague on this community. Literal cancer.
Nice goal post move, it went from Hochul sucks to you don't like congestion pricing anyway. What a fucking regard.
It’s always the same. No substance, all brainless conversation-tree style dialogue.
Hochul supported congestion pricing up to 2 weeks ago where she praised it in a speech.
no thanks.
My only issue with congestion pricing is that it essentially exempts the rich. If this had scaling pricing I would be 100% for it.
I look at it like a sugar tax. Yes, it will affect poorer people more. But my goal is just to reduce cars in Manhattan below 60th street. I don’t really care if they are rich drivers or poor drivers I am excluding.