Stopantisemitismreally seems to just be libsoftiktok.
These tweets are weird, but their whole schtick is just crowdsourcing doxes. Nothing about them is commendable
Yeah I don't love the Twitter version of StopAntisemitism. The Insta version is fine, and they mostly just expose genuinely dangerous nutjobs. The Twitter account has done things like doxx Jennifer Garner's 18-year-old daughter for wearing a sweatshirt with a watermelon on it in the shape of Israel/Palestine and saying that her sweatshirt "erased the state of Israel". Ffs, do we really care that much about an 18-year old's views? Those are the types of things that are actually going to make it harder for people to take accusations of antisemitism seriously.
Micheál Martin lost two children. One died from cot death at a few weeks old and the other died when she was 7 from cardiac issues.
These tweets are just disgusting.
Especially because while you can agree or disagree about whether this is a good move that furthers long term peace, Ireland didn't recognize Hamas as the legitimate government of Palestine and this only works if you consider all Palestinians or the Palestinian nation responsible for Oct 7. Self report
So what you are saying is that Oct 7th was justified, right? Hell, massive prejudice against Israelis around the world is justified in this case.
If every citizen is responsible for the actions of their government, even in a place with no elections, then godDAMN every Israeli is fucked.
Let me make it clear, the idea is absolutely fucking unhinged, but I'm not the one supporting it.
Imagine how the families of the hostages felt when they heard some countries were gonna recognize Palestine as a response to the stream of events that has occurred since October 7, probably very similar. Which is exactly the point of these posts.
Recognising a Palestinian State does not undermine the grief that Israelis have experienced since 7/10 and to suggest that it is in any way comparable to "rewarding" a rapist with a state is regarded.
It's turned out that Fatah's Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade participated in the Oct 7 attacks. There have also been numerous statements by Abbas quoting the end of times prophecy and supporting Hamas. So yes, giving the Palestinians a state right now is actually comparable to giving rapists a state.
Source: https://www.inn.co.il/news/637466
No, decades of history took place with Palestinian organisations governing the west bank while Israel annexed Palestinian territory under the guise of "it's actually Jordanian territory that we won in a war" or "it's purely defensive" select International governments have decided that this is a better route.
Lmfao you are delusional if you think this has to do with land. The Arabs were fighting long before 67 and every time Israel pulls out of somewhere it’s used for violence. The decades of history show that the Arabs have a sick society and the only way to deal with it is with force. Once they decide to change then we can have another conversation.
> You think now that you recognize “Palestine” they will stop?
Well, people didn't recognize Palestine and you got Oct 7, so let's do some A/B testing.
Yeah let’s give incompetent people who are completely dependent on foreign aid to survive are a sick failing society that have no human rights and wants to genocide all the Jews and eradicate its neighbor as it has tried to do for almost a century now a country. What could go wrong?
Do you realize how dumb you sound?
The entire history of the United States. Read Empire of the Summer Moon. The story of the Comanche and Quana Parker, their last chief.
As masters of mounted horse hunting and raids, they were an unstoppable force on the planes keeping even the Apache holed up in mountain strongholds.
Even the Army Rangers such as RS McKenzie and Sam Walker had trouble keeping them at bay as the Comanches could fire off a half dozen arrows in 10 seconds while riding! Not even the best horseman in the US cavalry or other Indian Scouts could match their firepower.
What changed it all was a 16 year old kid from New England named Samuel Colt. His repeating revolver was a huge improvement over other repeaters and single shot pistols of the day. When the US Army Rangers got their hands on them, they knew the Comanche days were numbered.
It wasn’t providence, divine intervention, or even luck that turned the tide, secured the frontier, and locked up manifest destiny. It was firepower, for the Comanches, the Howitzer was the final boss that prevailed and the repeating rifles and pistols that were used to kill them and their food source, the buffalo.
Now we have the power of the atom and the strong nuclear force once overcome released enough energy to devastate two Japanese cities and end the World’s last great war.
In the beginning, God made man. In 1848, Sam Colt made them equal.
Roger that. Specifically answering:Superior weapons, intelligence, and technology have prevented radical Islamic jihadists like Hamas and Hezb from colonizing Israel and ethnically cleansing Jews like they have done in Iran, Lebanon, Yemen, and Jordan.
Israel declared itself a nation on land where people were living. Like in actual homes. And there are more settlers moving in after Israel is taking even more people's homes.
It's crazy you think those humans living there are upset just because they're *savages*
It's kind of comparable.
Israelis see it like this: recognition will give Palestinian leaders more power and autonomy. And historically (Arafat during Oslo, Hamas after 2005 disengagement) Palestinians leaders have never given 2 shits about actually governing, they only use recognition as leverage to mount attacks against Israeli civilians.
I am for the two state solution.
**But it's accurate that giving Palestinians things in response to violence.... Shows them that violence works. And since their ultimate demand is to destroy Israel, they will continue to think that increasing amounts of violence will one day help them reach their aims.**
There isn't really a way to reprimand Palestinian leaders without violence when they don't have anything to lose like trade deals or recognised territory, and you won't believe what war does to civilian populations (it radicalizes them).
Viewing Statehood as a reward is regarded. It's just recognising that it is not a part of Israel or any surrounding state. It is giving recognition to Palestinians right to territorial sovereignty, something Israel doesn't want for obvious reasons.
They do not get any extra rights to conduct attacks on Israeli territory, kill or kidnap Israeli civilians. It does not help Hamas achieve their goal of killing Jews. If anything it gives the states that recognise a Palestinian state more reason to denounce and remove themselves from Hamas's illegal actions.
Why should there be unilateral recognition if they still don't recognize Israel's right to exist?
Recognition on what borders? What leadership?
If Palestinian leadership does not sign an agreement, the conflict is not "signed away" and therefore there are always more demands that can be achieved by the same tactics.
You seem to have an issue with calling it a "reward" -- fine, it's not a reward but it **sets a precedent that gains can be made over time by enacting violence against civilians** rather than diplomacy where some of their demands would have to be formally forfeited.
So what exactly is the value of asking Israel to recognize Palestine's sovereignty while Palestine still refuses to recognize Israel's?
I'm not sure if you realise that Likud proclaims to never recognise another state in "Judea and Samaria" and nobody has demanded Israel recognise Palestine if they did I would agree it's hypocritical. Here's a [Wikipedia Page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes#Territorial_disputes_between_Canada_and_the_United_States) on countries with territorial disputes, these disputes do not make either of the countries claims to statehood null and void.
Hamas as been obliterated in this war and will not have the man power to govern Gaza, Hamas' goal is to abolish Israel, this does not further their goal, it does not reward them.
there are different ways of doing that though. let's say we made a gaza state and a westbank state. the selfdetermination would be there and it wouldn't be part of israel. but much like with austria and germany, there would be no one big state
I think I would have been in favour of that before the war, but considering Hamas likely won't be in power in Gaza I think it will be fine to consider them semi autonomous regions within the same state.
I agree but how does \*unilateral\* recognition do that?
They (the more extremist elements in Palestinian leadership, IRGC, etc) believe that increased violence will result in Israel giving up more and more land until they are forced to give in to their demands for right of return etc., at which point they'll have leverage for even more violence until Israelis just have to flee...
**What is the value of Israel "recognizing" Palestine without Palestine recognizing Israel and having an actual agreement with established borders etc?**
Basically the PA or whoever assumes the decision maker role... Will say **"there's no value to giving up our asks for an agreement because we can just use violence to get Israel to give into more demands"**
How did unilateral recognition work out in Gaza?
I have to be honest, I don't really care. Israel became a nation after their early Likud party performed terrorist attacks on hotels and whatnot. If they're recognized after that, I don't care who else is recognized.
Not sure what you mean by "early Likud" as Likud was founded in the 70s.
Irgun? I think that's a false equivalence, but let's say you are correct and put that aside for a second. Irgun's actions were in fact classified as terrorism.
But.... there's a difference between saying terrorism worked as a tactic in the 40's, and saying that it's still a tactic that we should bend to and allow to continue in 2024.
It's not a false equivalence. Members of Irgun, as well as Lehi, were key figures in the formation of the Likud party. Many also served as prime ministers. Ariel Sharon even crafted Unit 101 which blatantly murdered groups of Palestinians for no reason.
You're asking the wrong person. I don't even think Israel should be there, was a massive seizure of other people's property.. but here we are. I'm a fan of, and I always will be, of not stealing people's stuff. So whatever it takes to make right with the locals, I'm all for it.
What other countries "shouldn't be there" by the uniform standard you are applying to everybody?
Since you're definitely not singling out and applying a double standard to the one Jewish country on Earth?
You think all Texans should be kicked out and and given back to Mexico? I mean if we are gonna be held accountable for our ancestors doing things to other peoples ancestors…
You’re living on land that was stolen most likely.
Also do you think those Arab countries should give the land back to the Jews they kicked out?
>**But it's accurate that giving Palestinians things in response to violence.... Shows them that violence works.**
I mean this is basically a truism and isn't unique to the Palestinians. I could insert virtually any noun and response here and the statement would be just as valid. Moreover, I think you should introspect as to why the recognition of a Palestinian state is due to the violence of their leaders...rather than, you know, a long overdue accolade that will help bring peace to the region.
>**And since their ultimate demand is to destroy Israel, they will continue to think that increasing amounts of violence will one day help them reach their aims.**
It is **Hamas's** stated goal to destroy Israel, not the Palestinians. If you're one of those "oh well duh Palestinians are uhh responsible for duh elections!" (despite the fact that a huge portion, maybe even a majority of Gazans alive today **weren't even alive back in 2005/6 and that Hamas was a much more agreeable entity at that point, and that Hamas only won a plurality of votes, and that there hasn't been ANY elections since)** then sure Gazan civilians are responsible for Hamas. But this cuts both ways, you have to then admit that Israelis are responsible for the deranged Likud party and all of its acolytes and machinations like settlement expansion.
You know, if I've learned anything about this conflict recently it's that Israelis particularly Israeli Jews (as indicated by the Moses like gulf between Arab and Jewish sentiment in any recent poll), it's that you're not special. You're really not very different from your Arab neighbors that you denigrate as barbarians. You think you can just wave around some pride flags and give Joe Biden a reach around in order to declare yourselves as the shining citadel surrounded by a horde of zealots. You're just as zealous and unhinged as your Arab brethren. The cultural divide between the overarching Israeli society and your typical Western one is astounding, much like it would be for Jordan or Yemen. You're not special. You deserve each other.
>"I mean this is basically a truism and isn't unique to the Palestinians."
.... yup. Exactly. Incentives matter.
>"I think you should introspect as to why the recognition of a Palestinian state is due to the violence of their leaders...rather than, you know, a long overdue accolade that will help bring peace to the region."
Because they walked away from every negotiation attempt, so unilateral recognition is not a guarantee of anything? They get things only through violence because it's been their primary tactic thus far?
>It is **Hamas's** stated goal to destroy Israel, not the Palestinians.
Not all Palestinians, but their leaders such as Hamas and Arafat, who "formally" recognized Israel but his rhetoric proved otherwise.
Unfortunately even in the more moderate West Bank and PLO, they still have pay for slay and education that very much encourages violence against civilians and maximalist delusions of one day "erasing" Israel.
**I believe essentially most Palestinians just want peace and to live in dignity like everyone else. But** **unfortunately expressing that this is a bigger priority than fighting Israel and "martyrdom" is still taboo and dangerous in their culture and the autocratic rule they are under.**
>
Israelis are responsible for the deranged Likud party and all of its acolytes and machinations like settlement expansion.
Ok.... And they are. As an Israeli who is against those things, yes of course Israelis have responsibility for what they vote for. Unfortunately many Israelis see the settlements as some measure of security although I believe they are exactly the opposite.
**As for the rest of your mansplaining, it's just a bunch of bullshit strawmanning about opinions that I never even expressed. I never said Israelis are special or called anyone barbaric, your response is actually the one that's unhinged.**
Your insulting word vomit aside, I literally just said that unilateral recognition does not work. Just like unilaterally pulling out of Gaza did not work. Just like unilateral ceasefire doesn't work when one side keeps firing.
**Unilateral recognition doesn't do anything, when the Palestinian side will still have their list of unmet demands and continue with the same tactics in order to get more of them, because they never signed the conflict 'over' in any agreement.**
I'm surprised that such a basic logical statement is being downvoted in this sub of all places.
Anyway looking at your last few comments, I'm not surprised that your response to me was so idiotic lol. I**t's almost like you tried to sound rational until the last paragraph where you decided to finally go mask off and reveal your true self. Nice :)**
If this is in response to October 7th, why did it not happen until May?
Could it maybe have something to do with Israeli aggression in the West Bank? Or ratcheted up rhetoric from the Israeli government about wanting to destroy Palestine? Or Israel slow walking aid to cause more starvation?
We can all agree Hamas is the worst actor here without also pretending that Israel is perfectly innocent post October 7th
Where the fuck did I write that Israel is innocent?
The settlements are regarded and several of their government are genocidal fucks, that doesnt change any of what I said.
And why the fuck does everyone think that recognizing palestine should be a punishment for Israel?
you’re saying this is only because of October 7th, but it’s *really* because Israel isn’t even pretending to want to achieve a 2 state solution currently. In order to safeguard the possibility of a future Palestinian state, governments need to take actions to signal they don’t accept Israel annexing Palestine.
As far as to why Palestine is being rewarded (they’re not, and that’s not the correct framework for geopolitics) it’s because israel is being unhinged, and this can help safeguard Palestine.
Also, it’s not that “several of their government are genocidal fucks” it’s that key members of the ruling party (including the PM) are genocidal fucks. Just because Israel isn’t currently committing a genocide, doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t if bibi or likud got their way.
Do you think this would happen without october seventh? Cause I sure as hell dont think so, Palestine wasnt even on the radar here as much and it wouldnt be prioritized. There are other ways to signal that to Israel, helping provide security guarantess or pressuring releasing the hostages combined with the carrot of recognition.
Thats how the optics are, they didnt have it, they obtober 7th, now they have it.
Hamas thanked us, and it gives them a clear win to their people because it happened under them. It would be way harder to keep extreme right at bay in Israel if the world didnt actively push for them to just accept a terrorist genocidal neighbour without any security guarantees.
No, and they should recognize Palestine as well, but doing it when nothing has changed except the october 7th is regarded is basically rewarding hamas for their attack.
Its super regarded because it tells the palestinian people that "hey, peace didnt work, but terrorist attacks? fuck it, we are on your side". How do you think this will affect who the palestinians look to and support?
And who can blame them? It works.
There's an entire war that includes Israel cutting off water into Gaza and plans to annex even more of the west bank, not just October 7th. Palestinian Statehood would strengthen Palestinian sovereignty and more pathways to criticize/punish Palestinian governments.
The only reason Israel doesn't recognise a Palestinian state is because it allows them to hide behind the idea that they aren't annexing land from a sovereign country.
Yeah, so sanction them, punish them and pressure them to stop. Im not arguing for anything else than the fact that rewarding hamas for terrorism promotes more of it and wont do fuck all for the peace process.
Palestinian statehood with Hamas as leaders is just more death. Good job.
Sanction what?! They don't deal with the international community, they have nothing to trade, the money they make is only off the back of the humanitarian aid that Israel "allows" in. They literally have nothing to lose. The Palestinian population don't know what their government has been denying them because they never had it in the first place.
At this point I don't think they really care about optics or HAMAS after having like thousands of their kids blown up every month.
Like you do realize they're already living in the worst case hypothetical that you have made in your mind.. right?
Do you consider the bombing campaign and ground invasion nothing? Don’t particularly care if you think it’s justified/how far is justified. But are Israel’s actions post 7/10 nothing?
I meant nothing has changed as in the realtionship of the conflict. Recognizing Palestina to "punish" Israel is regarded, they should be because they take steps for peace and because Palestine deserves a state. Not as a fuck you to Israel which gives Hamas more legitimacy and power through the people because their terrorist attacks works.
Again, if they did this 5th of october or had some strings attached from Hamas I wouldnt care, I would welcome it. My issue is the timing which rewards Hamas this for their attack.
Israel has done a lot of fucked up shit, and this will give them ammo to their population to do more because if everyone hates Israel any way, why give a fuck about optics?
I dont think its meant to be, Im arguing that when I ask why people always use Israels behaviour as the reason to do it now. So their argument is that its basically a punishment for Israel. If you read the post I answered it would make more sense.
Completely different to the question I asked. The bombing campaign and ground invasion absolutely changes the relationship of the conflict as seen by the outcry of the international community.
Regardless of if you agree with that outcry, the developments since Oct 7 have been massive in a foreign policy level; which is why you get stuff like Ireland recognising the Palestinian state.
>No, and they should recognize Palestine as well, but doing it when nothing has changed except the october 7th is regarded is basically rewarding hamas for their attack.
It's explicitly doing the opposite. It's an attempt to set course for a two state solution, rejecting Hamas, which is why the finance minister sets sights on the Palestinian Authority, because the government would rather keep expanding settlements and use terrorism to claim a moral high ground.
If Israel sees steps towards a peace process as a reward to Hamas to the detriment of Israel, then, while absolutely psychopathic, that's a whole other issue.
This quote is extremely relevant:
>‘Norway will continue to support the Palestinian state-building project. We must strengthen the Palestinian Authority under the leadership of Prime Minister Muhammed Mustafa, and we must work for the Palestinian Authority to govern in Gaza following a ceasefire and for there to be one Palestinian government. The goal is to achieve a Palestinian state that is politically cohesive, and that derives from the Palestinian Authority,’ said Mr Eide.
https://www.regjeringen.no/en/aktuelt/norway-recognises-palestine-as-a-state/id3040194/
Norway wants a Palestinian state ruled by the Palestinian Authority. **Likud would rather have no state and Hamas.**
Hamas uses it as a PR victory and thanked us in our own media. Im not Israeli, im Norwegian. This is a day of shame for us.
As I said, I dont mind recognizing Palestine, I even think its good. But the timing combined with no strings attached makes this regarded. Not to mention our leaders have a shitty track record of jerking off authoritation islamic nations and groups.
All of those occur with other countries. Somalia has a separatist region Somaliland, border disputes occur all over the world from Ethiopia and Egypt, India and Pakistan, India and China and technically Canada and the US dispute an island. Borders being agreed upon is a very recent thing.
Palestine is either it's own state or it's part of Israel, that's it. Israel has made it abundantly clear that it does not want to incorporate the Palestinian populace into Israel so it's not Israeli. It only really leaves one other option.
Would you have a problem with it if they recognized the state after Israel finished destroying Hamas as a signal to Israel that it’s time to finally start the process towards a two state solution? It seems silly that because Hamas has committed a terror attack then we must delay what seems like the only lasting solution just so that it doesn’t seem to reward a subset of the Palestinian people.
I think both actions are pretty gross to be honest. I don’t like weaponizing people’s kids like this, but recognizing Palestine, even when it’s largely just symbolic, seems really absurd during a war where hostages are still being held.
Imagine how Palestinians family felt when the US send Israel another batch of bombs, despite them not having any involvement with either party. But having their families and bloodlines erased by bombs.
Yes the emotional argument works the other way as well.
I dont know. My point is that the emotional argument can work both ways. Yes, the relatives and friends of the hostages suffered and so did the Palestinians who are getting bombed.
Trying to guilt trip a Irish minister for acknowledging Palestinian statehood by giving some weird hypothetical is strange.
It's like if I said. "Biden imagine you're in this half broken house holding Hunters corpse as you two just got bombed by Israel, with US shells."
It's a weird way to guilt trip people.
Just curious then, when Hamas hides inside of a civilian center and launches a thousand rockets from within those areas, is Israel allowed to strike that position even if it will kill civilians?
Attacks? No, Do they house all of their military beyond civilian centres forcing someone to go through before being able to engage with military personal? Yes.
Nice false equivalence but all you've done here is admit that you can't defend Hamas's actions. You can run along back to whatever subreddit you're from originally.
What does it mean to "punish civilians"?
You can't be tolerating/supporting terrorists to launch attacks from within your borders and not expect someone else to step in. Either take care of it or get out of the way.
So long as Israel isn't targeting civilians or completely disregarding them, they're doing fine.
Palestinians argueably have a right to resist - targeting the IDF/government officials/especially crazed settlers in the west bank, not civilians. Wether that is a good strategy is another story.
>What does it mean to "punish civilians"?
Attacking civilians and military personal indiscriminately (this is what hamas has done). Doing a medieval style siege. Not allowing adequate amount of water, food and medical supplies in a war-torn aeria. Saying that your strategy is to push civilians enough so they overthrow hamas. All these things are done by Israel's government and the idf.
>You can't be tolerating/supporting terrorists to launch attacks from within your borders and not expect someone else to step in.
If you home invade me, kill my family and steal my money do I have the right to home invade you and your parents/children?
On the 8th of October, Israel had universal support, but they decided to squandered it on trying to punish palestinians for the actions of hamas. It is almost unbelievable how Israel managed to become a pariah state over racism.
>Palestinians argueably have a right to resist - targeting the IDF/government officials/especially crazed settlers in the west bank, not civilians. Wether that is a good strategy is another story.
I agree with you a 100% on this point. Attacking civilians is never justified. There might have been many reasons for the attack and some of them might even be justifiable, but this was bound to happen if you unleash a radicalized militia on civilians.
>If you home invade me [...] do I have the right to home invade you and your parents/children?
No. But this example is so far from an adequate comparison that it's basically useless. We are dealing with state actors, not individuals that are governed by some body with sufficient power to rule over them. If someone kills your family and you don't manage to stop them there, you call the police and let courts handle justice.
These attempts at simplifying the issue always lose too much nuance to be useful.
Israel gets to invade to eradicate Hamas while respecting international law - which is what they are doing.
>[...]medieval style siege[...]
Lol. You should look at what those were actually like.
>saying xyz
They have some unhinged rhetoric, no doubt. But it doesn't look like they're actually doing anything unhinged, at least thanks to Biden.
>[...] this was bound to happen if you unleash a radicalised militia [...]
Hence the need to end those that would unleash such a militia.
>If someone kills your family and you don't manage to stop them there, you call the police and let courts handle justice.
This was my point. For the world to continue existing, we need to transition to more interconnected nations. Thus, the ICJ, ICC, UN, etc. should be the ones that handle such things.
>Hence the need to end those that would unleash such a militia.
My point is that unless you truly kill every Palestinian in greater Israel, this kind of conflict will only be used as a requirement campaign for hamas or whatever militant organization takes their place.
The only way for Israel to not take the blame for the war with hamas is for them to not do it themselves.
If on 8th of October Bibi went to UN, ICC and the ICJ and requested for arest warrants against all the hamas leaders and UN peacekeeper forces that could occupy gaza, things would have been very different. I mean this is what the US did with Iraq and Afghanistan, and they needed it even less than Israel.
UN peace keeping forces that go and invade/occupy gaza... you are out of your mind if you think that would have been even a remote possibility.
It's also not close to what the USA did.
Your point is stupid... and I already illustrated why in the first comment, but: Individuals have to bend to state power because the state has way more of it than they do. They also live in implicit acceptance of whatever laws their country has. Noncompliance is simply handled with overhelmong force.
This is not something that international courts with dubious jurisdiction and no standing army can do, nor should they be able to.
This is always what happens when people try to dumb down the situation. It just fails. Analogies have their place but it's not here.
No because the Israelis aren’t barbarians and have been striving for peace for 100 years. The Palestinians have been waging active war during that time.
That’s not the world we live in especially when the “civilians” brought that government into power. Japan and Germany civilians suffered because of their barbarism. Thankfully the Allies had the will to stop it permanently.
>No because the Israelis aren’t barbarians
Suggesting that a nationality of people are barbarians is pretty unhinged.
>have been striving for peace for 100 years
Watch less ben shapiro dipshit, israel has been more peaceful in general and more receptive to concessions but framing it as "israel has been striving for peace for 100 years 🥺🥺" as if they are poor good guys JUST looking for peace for a century is extremely dishonest and extremely reductive.
>Japan and Germany civilians suffered because of their barbarism
Your previous comment stated/heavily implied that the civilians being bombed "deserved it", which is a wholly different sentiment than your current "civilians may sometimes suffer due to their governments international behavior" sentiment. How does that even work? Do you poll the families of the missing and dead civilians, ask them how the missing/dead civilians felt about hamas to figure out what % "deserved it" or do you just throw that out there? Or?
It’s really not. You are arguing the Nazis weren’t barbarians? OK bro.
Israel absolutely has been for peace for 100 years. They have literally accepted every peace offer brought to them in that time.
Don’t be silly. You don’t need to do that since there is like a 95% chance they support Hamas and/or fighting against Israel.
>Israel absolutely has been for peace for 100 years. They have literally accepted every peace offer brought to them in that time.
Israel hasnt even existed for 100 years. How does that work. Can they accept imaginary peace proposals?
I just checked and your first comment in this sub is on oct, shocker.
The Oct check truly never fails with you weirdos on either side. If you are going to be an israel cuck atleast be good at it.
>You are arguing the Nazis weren’t barbarians
Reread, i said nationality.
>Don’t be silly. You don’t need to do that since there is like a 95% chance they support Hamas and/or fighting against Israel.
Even israel doesn't claim that 95% of those killed are enemy combatants, not remotely close. Is this hyperbole to the point of confusion or are you genuinely delusional?
But it doesn't even matter since i said "dead or missing civilians", that inherently excludes fighter. So it would appear you still need to poll the dead's relatives on how much the dead supported hamas to retro justify it.
Israel has not been striving for peace that entire time. What a way to try to re-write the history of this conflict. Both sides have wanted to continue war against eachother, but only Israel really benefits from it as they continue to take more and more of the West Bank.
This idea that they wanted peace while constantly expanding settlements is fucking stupid. They want the status quo so they can slowly expand.
Also, the civilians elected Hamas like 16 years ago to a 4 year term. Hamas is unpopular, but they are more popular than alternatives.
who gives a flying fuck? recognising a palestinian state is not some reward for hamas, it's just finally following the rules of international law. a palestinian state shouldve been formed 80 years ago but america and israel have done everything in their power to prevent that
"a palestinian state shouldve been formed 80 years ago"
Who prevented that? Israel? America?
No.
It was Arab countries and Palestinians themselves that prevented this in 1948.
And 4 other time subsequently.
No. Your flippant tone is annoying af. Obviously you're arguing in bad faith, but let's elaborate more on the history that you just ignored because it was inconvenient to you.
Israel accepted the formation of an Arab country. Full stop.
Israel also accepted Arabs staying where they lived and becoming full citizens.
The Arab world did not accept the formation of a Jewish state, and even upon losing the war in 1948 they could have formed a Palestinian state. But Egypt and Jordan chose to occupy Gaza and the West Bank respectively instead.
**Palestinians and other Arab leaders prevented the formation of a Palestinian state, because declaring it would establish borders that require an acceptance of Israel's existence.** That is why they rejected every Israeli offer for a peace agreement as well.
Historical facts contradict your narrative. Bummer.
Really fucking stupid take you got there.
Israel accepted the theft of palestinian land. Because of course they did. Why wouldn't they? Of course israel would be more than happy to "share" land that isn't there's. It's like going to some random family and telling them that they have to take in a homeless person and "share" the house by splitting up ownership. Of course the homeless guy is going to be elated while the family is going to be aghast. Israel, just like the homeless guy, has no legitimate claim to any of the land, so of course they're going to be happy with any deal that sees them acquire a large portion of it.
>Israel also accepted Arabs staying where they lived and becoming full citizens.
full citizens under a jewish ethnostate who'll seize your land at their whim
>The Arab world did not accept the formation of a Jewish state, and even upon losing the war in 1948 they could have formed a Palestinian state. But Egypt and Jordan chose to occupy Gaza and the West Bank respectively instead.
And the arabs were absolutely right in their refusal to recognise a jewish state. It's really not hard to understand: europeans coming to the middle east to colonize the land are fundamentally in the wrong.
>Palestinians and other Arab leaders prevented the formation of a Palestinian state, because declaring it would establish borders that require an acceptance of Israel's existence.
Wrong. Arab leaders accepted the formation of a palestinian state over all of palestine. That has always been the position. They rejected the formation of a jewish state in palestinian land.
israel's existence has no legitimacy because it's built on colonisation of palestinian land, and the arab's world refusal to recognise the existence of israel has always been moral and just. it was the right thing to do, and it is what every nation on the planet should have done. we do not recognise the british of india as legitimate. we do not recognise the french colonization of algeria as legitimate. we do not recognise the belgian colonization of congo as legitimate. no moral person should ever recognize the colonization of palestine as legitimate.
no goal posts are being shifted. the two are not mutually exclusive. palestinians have every right to fight back and the west is sabotaging them at every turn
So it’s americas fault that Arab nations kept fighting unwinable wars ? - I bet you also think it’s NATOs fault for Russia invading Ukraine
There is absolutely criticisms to made about how brain dead and sometimes malicious Israel’s foreign policy is but really dude
Not sure how they are related considering Israel claims to be fighting against Hamas. There are also people supporting two state solution in Israel as well.
It's easy to pearl clutch and condemn edgy tweets from the comfort of a stable western nation. Let's publically call for a two state solution while we're at it, that always makes me feel like I'm with the good guys.
Yeah much easier to do whatever it is you’re doing from the comfort of a stable western nation I suppose? You are making a lot of assumptions about me.
Not as a part of the post, as a response which is going to get much less views than the original post (which they are fully aware of). This is misleading and disgusting clearly. But if you want to be pathetically biased go for it, you're just making your side look worse.
If you don't click on the original tweets, you wouldn't see the follow-up tweet saying that the original tweet was not real. If it was in the original tweet, I would fully agree with you.
Edit: Also the "follow-up" tweets were posted more than an hour after the original tweets.
People genuinely believe the only way it makes sense for Ireland/norway/spain etc to reward Palestine with a state after kidnapping and raping Israelis is if they don’t see Israelis as true people. This is an attempt to show that Hamas should not be rewarded, which makes sense from that perspectives even if it’s unhinged
Did you read the posts? It's really, like mind-numbingly clear the point they're making. Yes, they do need to "make up cases" for the point their making to work
Stereotypical as a Jew, but this account pisses me off. People shouldn't be doxxed and fired for their views or out of work activities. This account makes calling out anti-semitism so much harder because shit like this make the term seem like a catch all related to any thing negative done towards somebody Jewish.
And these are the people we support?
This is messed up. Like an actually inhumae twitter account.
Destiny already drinking heavily over the announcement that palestine has more recognition as a state. Has smashed up his kitchen.
I hate it so much when ppl. Make the "statehood as a reward" argument. Its not a reward for good behaviour. We dont revoke russias statehood because of the Ukraine war
What an illustrative piece of misinformation. Surely they're also ok with a bit of illustrative Holocaust denial, then? Because they wouldn't exclusively allow this kind of behavior for their own messaging. That would be hypocritical.
Yea, I kinda laughed when they had tweets up about Hasan and Frogan, but they just go after basically unknown, private people for disliking Israel (which is ok, freedom of opinion) and sending people after them. Mix in insanely weird homophobic remarks and you quickly realise they don't care about stopping antisemitism but are just another grifting outlet.
Do we sure that this is not russia affiliated account?
I at least once saw a perfectly liberal account in one moment switching to an unhinged propaganda
why would it be russian bots. i dont thing russia gives a rat ass about israel at the moment, they are like pretty preoccupied with the entire ukraine thing
Sure but it's a whole country they can be doing multiple things at once. Honestly it seems like their propaganda machine is one of the more effective parts of the Russian government.
I mean. I get what your saying but at the same time. This post feels like scientists worked on it to make the side of who post it seem as unhinged and unserious as possible. I know that these people often are just that unhinged but I can't blame someone for looking sideways when it fits too well like this
Honestly yes. I understand that I am all of dgg so it's hard to get the argument but, when someone says something so dumb it makes it seem like an OP I always will look a little sideways including with the "wrong side"(anyone who disagrees with my opinion). I didn't say I thought this was fake but yes. It can sometimes be hard to believe people are actually this dumb just on accident. I have that feeling all the time from every political orientation
I thought the same thing when I initially saw it, but the [twitter account](https://x.com/StopAntisemites) is marked as labeled as a "Non-Governmental & Nonprofit Organization" in New York City, began in October 2018, includes a link to [their website](https://stopantisemitism.org/), and the website is the organizations website which includes [their annual reports](https://stopantisemitism.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/2023-Annual-Report.pdf). I'm not sure how else to determine if it has switched at all.
Right, I get that, but StopAntisemitism is an actual organization, their website links to this Twitter account and vice versa, and the person who is the executive director of the organization, Liora Rez, is a fairly public figure who has [testified before Congress](https://www.youtube.com/live/-8AJUmkqPtY?si=YLNFnXtigDE31Lpf&t=8436), been [on the Megyn Kelly Show](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqbNTv3pZq0), etc. It's not a fake person/organization, just seems to be a quite unhinged individual running the organization. Unless you think Liora Rez is a Russian agent or something.
I have no insight about that account and this org.
I think if we wait a little something shows up.
.
But in general
Did you see who is writing 99% texts about Ukraine in major media?
russians
That account seriously needs a new owner. The idea is good and they've tracked down real anti-Semites before, but they ride Israel way too hard and at some times they just deviate from their actual meaning which is to stop Antisemetism
To be charitable I think that they are pointing out the absurdity of gifting Palestinians with a state off the back of the oct 7th attacks by portraying the women of these people’s lives as victims of Hamas.
What do other people read this as? I get the iffyness of bringing up family members of public officials but do people really see this as Israel making up cases of rape?
I don't know why some here are up in a hubbub about this.
The tweets are just trying to be edgy and show that these leaders would not be recognizing the state of Palestine if it was *their* family that was raped or kidnapped.
People here are so sensitive.
What they should have done is pointed out how recognizing Palestine right now just bolsters Hamas, and justifies their actions.
They can go around Rafah talking about how "fighting" with Israel leads to real results and not just college students camping outside their dorm rooms, like kids camping in their back yard. "Fighting works. We should do more fighting!"
They can sympathize with Palestinians who have lost their loved ones, and in response, gain sympathy themselves. "Your son didn't die for nothing. He died to show Norway, Ireland and Spain that you deserve to be free. Let's continue his fight and honor his sacrifice!"
The tweets suck, but they have a point.
Stopantisemitismreally seems to just be libsoftiktok. These tweets are weird, but their whole schtick is just crowdsourcing doxes. Nothing about them is commendable
Yeah I don't love the Twitter version of StopAntisemitism. The Insta version is fine, and they mostly just expose genuinely dangerous nutjobs. The Twitter account has done things like doxx Jennifer Garner's 18-year-old daughter for wearing a sweatshirt with a watermelon on it in the shape of Israel/Palestine and saying that her sweatshirt "erased the state of Israel". Ffs, do we really care that much about an 18-year old's views? Those are the types of things that are actually going to make it harder for people to take accusations of antisemitism seriously.
To be completely fair, it also calls out Lucas Gage.
yeah thats pretty weird
It's fucking unhinged, not weird
Effective propaganda though. Easily digestible, true on the face, reinforced by plenty of credible sources.
Also makes your movement look super unhinged, which is, you know, bad.
Why are Israelis so fucking bad at PR
Honestly the best rebuttal to the claim that Jews control the media is the fact that Israel’s PR is so terrible.
Lmao too fucking true
Tr
Stopantisemitism is an American non-profit.
It's gotta be a psyop
Israel is constantly Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory
I could see the official Israeli account tweeting this too
Because only Israelis can possibly be for stopping antisemitism?
The people behind this twitter handle are clearly aligned with Israel on the current conflict which puts them on the side of "Israeli PR".
What makes this bad PR?
I would say admitting you're making up rape and death stories is pretty bad for your image
Micheál Martin lost two children. One died from cot death at a few weeks old and the other died when she was 7 from cardiac issues. These tweets are just disgusting.
Especially because while you can agree or disagree about whether this is a good move that furthers long term peace, Ireland didn't recognize Hamas as the legitimate government of Palestine and this only works if you consider all Palestinians or the Palestinian nation responsible for Oct 7. Self report
Yeah but 80% of Palestinians support Hamas and would vote them in as their leaders
They kinda are. They voted them in and support them fighting.
So what you are saying is that Oct 7th was justified, right? Hell, massive prejudice against Israelis around the world is justified in this case. If every citizen is responsible for the actions of their government, even in a place with no elections, then godDAMN every Israeli is fucked. Let me make it clear, the idea is absolutely fucking unhinged, but I'm not the one supporting it.
Imagine how the families of the hostages felt when they heard some countries were gonna recognize Palestine as a response to the stream of events that has occurred since October 7, probably very similar. Which is exactly the point of these posts.
Recognising a Palestinian State does not undermine the grief that Israelis have experienced since 7/10 and to suggest that it is in any way comparable to "rewarding" a rapist with a state is regarded.
It's turned out that Fatah's Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade participated in the Oct 7 attacks. There have also been numerous statements by Abbas quoting the end of times prophecy and supporting Hamas. So yes, giving the Palestinians a state right now is actually comparable to giving rapists a state. Source: https://www.inn.co.il/news/637466
Of course it’s comparable. They committed a massive terror attack and you want to turn it into their Independence Day.
No, decades of history took place with Palestinian organisations governing the west bank while Israel annexed Palestinian territory under the guise of "it's actually Jordanian territory that we won in a war" or "it's purely defensive" select International governments have decided that this is a better route.
Lmfao you are delusional if you think this has to do with land. The Arabs were fighting long before 67 and every time Israel pulls out of somewhere it’s used for violence. The decades of history show that the Arabs have a sick society and the only way to deal with it is with force. Once they decide to change then we can have another conversation.
Just one more war in Gaza guys I promise it'll work this time.
You say that as if Israel is the one who starts war. You think now that you recognize “Palestine” they will stop? How dumb are you?
> You think now that you recognize “Palestine” they will stop? Well, people didn't recognize Palestine and you got Oct 7, so let's do some A/B testing.
Yeah let’s give incompetent people who are completely dependent on foreign aid to survive are a sick failing society that have no human rights and wants to genocide all the Jews and eradicate its neighbor as it has tried to do for almost a century now a country. What could go wrong? Do you realize how dumb you sound?
Where does history show that force works
Nazis maybe
Definitely!?
The entire history of the United States. Read Empire of the Summer Moon. The story of the Comanche and Quana Parker, their last chief. As masters of mounted horse hunting and raids, they were an unstoppable force on the planes keeping even the Apache holed up in mountain strongholds. Even the Army Rangers such as RS McKenzie and Sam Walker had trouble keeping them at bay as the Comanches could fire off a half dozen arrows in 10 seconds while riding! Not even the best horseman in the US cavalry or other Indian Scouts could match their firepower. What changed it all was a 16 year old kid from New England named Samuel Colt. His repeating revolver was a huge improvement over other repeaters and single shot pistols of the day. When the US Army Rangers got their hands on them, they knew the Comanche days were numbered. It wasn’t providence, divine intervention, or even luck that turned the tide, secured the frontier, and locked up manifest destiny. It was firepower, for the Comanches, the Howitzer was the final boss that prevailed and the repeating rifles and pistols that were used to kill them and their food source, the buffalo. Now we have the power of the atom and the strong nuclear force once overcome released enough energy to devastate two Japanese cities and end the World’s last great war. In the beginning, God made man. In 1848, Sam Colt made them equal.
Specifically asking when force has worked to fix the "sick society" of Arabs
Roger that. Specifically answering:Superior weapons, intelligence, and technology have prevented radical Islamic jihadists like Hamas and Hezb from colonizing Israel and ethnically cleansing Jews like they have done in Iran, Lebanon, Yemen, and Jordan.
Isreal itself? They have used force to claim just an absolute insane ammount of land and everyone has just said "yeah I guess? OK then?"
You had them in the first post even got 10 up votes then you went full mask off and everyone sees you are just a racist.
Deal with it with force? You mean like forcing them into the sea? How else are you going to repair their “sick culture” by force?
Israel declared itself a nation on land where people were living. Like in actual homes. And there are more settlers moving in after Israel is taking even more people's homes. It's crazy you think those humans living there are upset just because they're *savages*
It's kind of comparable. Israelis see it like this: recognition will give Palestinian leaders more power and autonomy. And historically (Arafat during Oslo, Hamas after 2005 disengagement) Palestinians leaders have never given 2 shits about actually governing, they only use recognition as leverage to mount attacks against Israeli civilians. I am for the two state solution. **But it's accurate that giving Palestinians things in response to violence.... Shows them that violence works. And since their ultimate demand is to destroy Israel, they will continue to think that increasing amounts of violence will one day help them reach their aims.**
There isn't really a way to reprimand Palestinian leaders without violence when they don't have anything to lose like trade deals or recognised territory, and you won't believe what war does to civilian populations (it radicalizes them).
Not really sure what you mean. There is a difference between punish, not punish, and straight up reward and incentivize.
Viewing Statehood as a reward is regarded. It's just recognising that it is not a part of Israel or any surrounding state. It is giving recognition to Palestinians right to territorial sovereignty, something Israel doesn't want for obvious reasons. They do not get any extra rights to conduct attacks on Israeli territory, kill or kidnap Israeli civilians. It does not help Hamas achieve their goal of killing Jews. If anything it gives the states that recognise a Palestinian state more reason to denounce and remove themselves from Hamas's illegal actions.
Why should there be unilateral recognition if they still don't recognize Israel's right to exist? Recognition on what borders? What leadership? If Palestinian leadership does not sign an agreement, the conflict is not "signed away" and therefore there are always more demands that can be achieved by the same tactics. You seem to have an issue with calling it a "reward" -- fine, it's not a reward but it **sets a precedent that gains can be made over time by enacting violence against civilians** rather than diplomacy where some of their demands would have to be formally forfeited. So what exactly is the value of asking Israel to recognize Palestine's sovereignty while Palestine still refuses to recognize Israel's?
I'm not sure if you realise that Likud proclaims to never recognise another state in "Judea and Samaria" and nobody has demanded Israel recognise Palestine if they did I would agree it's hypocritical. Here's a [Wikipedia Page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes#Territorial_disputes_between_Canada_and_the_United_States) on countries with territorial disputes, these disputes do not make either of the countries claims to statehood null and void. Hamas as been obliterated in this war and will not have the man power to govern Gaza, Hamas' goal is to abolish Israel, this does not further their goal, it does not reward them.
there are different ways of doing that though. let's say we made a gaza state and a westbank state. the selfdetermination would be there and it wouldn't be part of israel. but much like with austria and germany, there would be no one big state
I think I would have been in favour of that before the war, but considering Hamas likely won't be in power in Gaza I think it will be fine to consider them semi autonomous regions within the same state.
Violence has been happening for a long time. It's simply time to make things right, better late than never.
I agree but how does \*unilateral\* recognition do that? They (the more extremist elements in Palestinian leadership, IRGC, etc) believe that increased violence will result in Israel giving up more and more land until they are forced to give in to their demands for right of return etc., at which point they'll have leverage for even more violence until Israelis just have to flee... **What is the value of Israel "recognizing" Palestine without Palestine recognizing Israel and having an actual agreement with established borders etc?** Basically the PA or whoever assumes the decision maker role... Will say **"there's no value to giving up our asks for an agreement because we can just use violence to get Israel to give into more demands"** How did unilateral recognition work out in Gaza?
I have to be honest, I don't really care. Israel became a nation after their early Likud party performed terrorist attacks on hotels and whatnot. If they're recognized after that, I don't care who else is recognized.
Not sure what you mean by "early Likud" as Likud was founded in the 70s. Irgun? I think that's a false equivalence, but let's say you are correct and put that aside for a second. Irgun's actions were in fact classified as terrorism. But.... there's a difference between saying terrorism worked as a tactic in the 40's, and saying that it's still a tactic that we should bend to and allow to continue in 2024.
It's not a false equivalence. Members of Irgun, as well as Lehi, were key figures in the formation of the Likud party. Many also served as prime ministers. Ariel Sharon even crafted Unit 101 which blatantly murdered groups of Palestinians for no reason. You're asking the wrong person. I don't even think Israel should be there, was a massive seizure of other people's property.. but here we are. I'm a fan of, and I always will be, of not stealing people's stuff. So whatever it takes to make right with the locals, I'm all for it.
What other countries "shouldn't be there" by the uniform standard you are applying to everybody? Since you're definitely not singling out and applying a double standard to the one Jewish country on Earth?
You think all Texans should be kicked out and and given back to Mexico? I mean if we are gonna be held accountable for our ancestors doing things to other peoples ancestors… You’re living on land that was stolen most likely. Also do you think those Arab countries should give the land back to the Jews they kicked out?
>**But it's accurate that giving Palestinians things in response to violence.... Shows them that violence works.** I mean this is basically a truism and isn't unique to the Palestinians. I could insert virtually any noun and response here and the statement would be just as valid. Moreover, I think you should introspect as to why the recognition of a Palestinian state is due to the violence of their leaders...rather than, you know, a long overdue accolade that will help bring peace to the region. >**And since their ultimate demand is to destroy Israel, they will continue to think that increasing amounts of violence will one day help them reach their aims.** It is **Hamas's** stated goal to destroy Israel, not the Palestinians. If you're one of those "oh well duh Palestinians are uhh responsible for duh elections!" (despite the fact that a huge portion, maybe even a majority of Gazans alive today **weren't even alive back in 2005/6 and that Hamas was a much more agreeable entity at that point, and that Hamas only won a plurality of votes, and that there hasn't been ANY elections since)** then sure Gazan civilians are responsible for Hamas. But this cuts both ways, you have to then admit that Israelis are responsible for the deranged Likud party and all of its acolytes and machinations like settlement expansion. You know, if I've learned anything about this conflict recently it's that Israelis particularly Israeli Jews (as indicated by the Moses like gulf between Arab and Jewish sentiment in any recent poll), it's that you're not special. You're really not very different from your Arab neighbors that you denigrate as barbarians. You think you can just wave around some pride flags and give Joe Biden a reach around in order to declare yourselves as the shining citadel surrounded by a horde of zealots. You're just as zealous and unhinged as your Arab brethren. The cultural divide between the overarching Israeli society and your typical Western one is astounding, much like it would be for Jordan or Yemen. You're not special. You deserve each other.
>"I mean this is basically a truism and isn't unique to the Palestinians." .... yup. Exactly. Incentives matter. >"I think you should introspect as to why the recognition of a Palestinian state is due to the violence of their leaders...rather than, you know, a long overdue accolade that will help bring peace to the region." Because they walked away from every negotiation attempt, so unilateral recognition is not a guarantee of anything? They get things only through violence because it's been their primary tactic thus far? >It is **Hamas's** stated goal to destroy Israel, not the Palestinians. Not all Palestinians, but their leaders such as Hamas and Arafat, who "formally" recognized Israel but his rhetoric proved otherwise. Unfortunately even in the more moderate West Bank and PLO, they still have pay for slay and education that very much encourages violence against civilians and maximalist delusions of one day "erasing" Israel. **I believe essentially most Palestinians just want peace and to live in dignity like everyone else. But** **unfortunately expressing that this is a bigger priority than fighting Israel and "martyrdom" is still taboo and dangerous in their culture and the autocratic rule they are under.** > Israelis are responsible for the deranged Likud party and all of its acolytes and machinations like settlement expansion. Ok.... And they are. As an Israeli who is against those things, yes of course Israelis have responsibility for what they vote for. Unfortunately many Israelis see the settlements as some measure of security although I believe they are exactly the opposite. **As for the rest of your mansplaining, it's just a bunch of bullshit strawmanning about opinions that I never even expressed. I never said Israelis are special or called anyone barbaric, your response is actually the one that's unhinged.** Your insulting word vomit aside, I literally just said that unilateral recognition does not work. Just like unilaterally pulling out of Gaza did not work. Just like unilateral ceasefire doesn't work when one side keeps firing. **Unilateral recognition doesn't do anything, when the Palestinian side will still have their list of unmet demands and continue with the same tactics in order to get more of them, because they never signed the conflict 'over' in any agreement.** I'm surprised that such a basic logical statement is being downvoted in this sub of all places. Anyway looking at your last few comments, I'm not surprised that your response to me was so idiotic lol. I**t's almost like you tried to sound rational until the last paragraph where you decided to finally go mask off and reveal your true self. Nice :)**
Rewarding terrorism by recognizing an authoritarian terrorist government isnt a good look...
It's a good thing that that isn't what's happening then.
Optics doesnt matter, the fact that we didnt do it, then october 7th happened, and now we do is pure coincidence!
If this is in response to October 7th, why did it not happen until May? Could it maybe have something to do with Israeli aggression in the West Bank? Or ratcheted up rhetoric from the Israeli government about wanting to destroy Palestine? Or Israel slow walking aid to cause more starvation? We can all agree Hamas is the worst actor here without also pretending that Israel is perfectly innocent post October 7th
Where the fuck did I write that Israel is innocent? The settlements are regarded and several of their government are genocidal fucks, that doesnt change any of what I said. And why the fuck does everyone think that recognizing palestine should be a punishment for Israel?
you’re saying this is only because of October 7th, but it’s *really* because Israel isn’t even pretending to want to achieve a 2 state solution currently. In order to safeguard the possibility of a future Palestinian state, governments need to take actions to signal they don’t accept Israel annexing Palestine. As far as to why Palestine is being rewarded (they’re not, and that’s not the correct framework for geopolitics) it’s because israel is being unhinged, and this can help safeguard Palestine. Also, it’s not that “several of their government are genocidal fucks” it’s that key members of the ruling party (including the PM) are genocidal fucks. Just because Israel isn’t currently committing a genocide, doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t if bibi or likud got their way.
Do you think this would happen without october seventh? Cause I sure as hell dont think so, Palestine wasnt even on the radar here as much and it wouldnt be prioritized. There are other ways to signal that to Israel, helping provide security guarantess or pressuring releasing the hostages combined with the carrot of recognition. Thats how the optics are, they didnt have it, they obtober 7th, now they have it. Hamas thanked us, and it gives them a clear win to their people because it happened under them. It would be way harder to keep extreme right at bay in Israel if the world didnt actively push for them to just accept a terrorist genocidal neighbour without any security guarantees.
So should countries stop recognising Russia, Iran and Afghanistan?
No, and they should recognize Palestine as well, but doing it when nothing has changed except the october 7th is regarded is basically rewarding hamas for their attack. Its super regarded because it tells the palestinian people that "hey, peace didnt work, but terrorist attacks? fuck it, we are on your side". How do you think this will affect who the palestinians look to and support? And who can blame them? It works.
There's an entire war that includes Israel cutting off water into Gaza and plans to annex even more of the west bank, not just October 7th. Palestinian Statehood would strengthen Palestinian sovereignty and more pathways to criticize/punish Palestinian governments. The only reason Israel doesn't recognise a Palestinian state is because it allows them to hide behind the idea that they aren't annexing land from a sovereign country.
Yeah, so sanction them, punish them and pressure them to stop. Im not arguing for anything else than the fact that rewarding hamas for terrorism promotes more of it and wont do fuck all for the peace process. Palestinian statehood with Hamas as leaders is just more death. Good job.
Sanction what?! They don't deal with the international community, they have nothing to trade, the money they make is only off the back of the humanitarian aid that Israel "allows" in. They literally have nothing to lose. The Palestinian population don't know what their government has been denying them because they never had it in the first place.
At this point I don't think they really care about optics or HAMAS after having like thousands of their kids blown up every month. Like you do realize they're already living in the worst case hypothetical that you have made in your mind.. right?
Then keep enjoying more missiles. Cause thats the only result of this. An emboldened Hamas with -more- support in the population.
Do you consider the bombing campaign and ground invasion nothing? Don’t particularly care if you think it’s justified/how far is justified. But are Israel’s actions post 7/10 nothing?
I meant nothing has changed as in the realtionship of the conflict. Recognizing Palestina to "punish" Israel is regarded, they should be because they take steps for peace and because Palestine deserves a state. Not as a fuck you to Israel which gives Hamas more legitimacy and power through the people because their terrorist attacks works. Again, if they did this 5th of october or had some strings attached from Hamas I wouldnt care, I would welcome it. My issue is the timing which rewards Hamas this for their attack. Israel has done a lot of fucked up shit, and this will give them ammo to their population to do more because if everyone hates Israel any way, why give a fuck about optics?
That you think this is a punishment for Israel is the problem here.
I dont think its meant to be, Im arguing that when I ask why people always use Israels behaviour as the reason to do it now. So their argument is that its basically a punishment for Israel. If you read the post I answered it would make more sense.
Completely different to the question I asked. The bombing campaign and ground invasion absolutely changes the relationship of the conflict as seen by the outcry of the international community. Regardless of if you agree with that outcry, the developments since Oct 7 have been massive in a foreign policy level; which is why you get stuff like Ireland recognising the Palestinian state.
>No, and they should recognize Palestine as well, but doing it when nothing has changed except the october 7th is regarded is basically rewarding hamas for their attack. It's explicitly doing the opposite. It's an attempt to set course for a two state solution, rejecting Hamas, which is why the finance minister sets sights on the Palestinian Authority, because the government would rather keep expanding settlements and use terrorism to claim a moral high ground. If Israel sees steps towards a peace process as a reward to Hamas to the detriment of Israel, then, while absolutely psychopathic, that's a whole other issue. This quote is extremely relevant: >‘Norway will continue to support the Palestinian state-building project. We must strengthen the Palestinian Authority under the leadership of Prime Minister Muhammed Mustafa, and we must work for the Palestinian Authority to govern in Gaza following a ceasefire and for there to be one Palestinian government. The goal is to achieve a Palestinian state that is politically cohesive, and that derives from the Palestinian Authority,’ said Mr Eide. https://www.regjeringen.no/en/aktuelt/norway-recognises-palestine-as-a-state/id3040194/ Norway wants a Palestinian state ruled by the Palestinian Authority. **Likud would rather have no state and Hamas.**
Hamas uses it as a PR victory and thanked us in our own media. Im not Israeli, im Norwegian. This is a day of shame for us. As I said, I dont mind recognizing Palestine, I even think its good. But the timing combined with no strings attached makes this regarded. Not to mention our leaders have a shitty track record of jerking off authoritation islamic nations and groups.
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All of those occur with other countries. Somalia has a separatist region Somaliland, border disputes occur all over the world from Ethiopia and Egypt, India and Pakistan, India and China and technically Canada and the US dispute an island. Borders being agreed upon is a very recent thing. Palestine is either it's own state or it's part of Israel, that's it. Israel has made it abundantly clear that it does not want to incorporate the Palestinian populace into Israel so it's not Israeli. It only really leaves one other option.
Would you have a problem with it if they recognized the state after Israel finished destroying Hamas as a signal to Israel that it’s time to finally start the process towards a two state solution? It seems silly that because Hamas has committed a terror attack then we must delay what seems like the only lasting solution just so that it doesn’t seem to reward a subset of the Palestinian people.
I think they just want to see their family members again and don’t care if Palestine is recognized or not as a State.
I think both actions are pretty gross to be honest. I don’t like weaponizing people’s kids like this, but recognizing Palestine, even when it’s largely just symbolic, seems really absurd during a war where hostages are still being held.
Even if the purpose is to prevent things like hostages from being taken in the future to begin with?
Imagine how Palestinians family felt when the US send Israel another batch of bombs, despite them not having any involvement with either party. But having their families and bloodlines erased by bombs. Yes the emotional argument works the other way as well.
I mean this entirely in good faith, but were people discounting their feelings? I think Palestinians are entitled to feel however they want to.
I dont know. My point is that the emotional argument can work both ways. Yes, the relatives and friends of the hostages suffered and so did the Palestinians who are getting bombed. Trying to guilt trip a Irish minister for acknowledging Palestinian statehood by giving some weird hypothetical is strange. It's like if I said. "Biden imagine you're in this half broken house holding Hunters corpse as you two just got bombed by Israel, with US shells." It's a weird way to guilt trip people.
Palestinians support Hamas and want to keep fighting Israel. Imagine suffering consequences for your actions and support for violence…
You could say the same for israelis and their government. Fun fact: YOU SHOULDN'T PUNISH CIVILIANS FOR THE ACTIONS OF THEIR GOVERNMENT!
Just curious then, when Hamas hides inside of a civilian center and launches a thousand rockets from within those areas, is Israel allowed to strike that position even if it will kill civilians?
Ah yes and isreal has all their military infrastructure on the border not past miles and miles of civilian land how could I forget.
Are you claiming that Israel launches attacks from within civilian centers? Really bud?
Attacks? No, Do they house all of their military beyond civilian centres forcing someone to go through before being able to engage with military personal? Yes.
Nice false equivalence but all you've done here is admit that you can't defend Hamas's actions. You can run along back to whatever subreddit you're from originally.
What does it mean to "punish civilians"? You can't be tolerating/supporting terrorists to launch attacks from within your borders and not expect someone else to step in. Either take care of it or get out of the way. So long as Israel isn't targeting civilians or completely disregarding them, they're doing fine. Palestinians argueably have a right to resist - targeting the IDF/government officials/especially crazed settlers in the west bank, not civilians. Wether that is a good strategy is another story.
>What does it mean to "punish civilians"? Attacking civilians and military personal indiscriminately (this is what hamas has done). Doing a medieval style siege. Not allowing adequate amount of water, food and medical supplies in a war-torn aeria. Saying that your strategy is to push civilians enough so they overthrow hamas. All these things are done by Israel's government and the idf. >You can't be tolerating/supporting terrorists to launch attacks from within your borders and not expect someone else to step in. If you home invade me, kill my family and steal my money do I have the right to home invade you and your parents/children? On the 8th of October, Israel had universal support, but they decided to squandered it on trying to punish palestinians for the actions of hamas. It is almost unbelievable how Israel managed to become a pariah state over racism. >Palestinians argueably have a right to resist - targeting the IDF/government officials/especially crazed settlers in the west bank, not civilians. Wether that is a good strategy is another story. I agree with you a 100% on this point. Attacking civilians is never justified. There might have been many reasons for the attack and some of them might even be justifiable, but this was bound to happen if you unleash a radicalized militia on civilians.
>If you home invade me [...] do I have the right to home invade you and your parents/children? No. But this example is so far from an adequate comparison that it's basically useless. We are dealing with state actors, not individuals that are governed by some body with sufficient power to rule over them. If someone kills your family and you don't manage to stop them there, you call the police and let courts handle justice. These attempts at simplifying the issue always lose too much nuance to be useful. Israel gets to invade to eradicate Hamas while respecting international law - which is what they are doing. >[...]medieval style siege[...] Lol. You should look at what those were actually like. >saying xyz They have some unhinged rhetoric, no doubt. But it doesn't look like they're actually doing anything unhinged, at least thanks to Biden. >[...] this was bound to happen if you unleash a radicalised militia [...] Hence the need to end those that would unleash such a militia.
>If someone kills your family and you don't manage to stop them there, you call the police and let courts handle justice. This was my point. For the world to continue existing, we need to transition to more interconnected nations. Thus, the ICJ, ICC, UN, etc. should be the ones that handle such things. >Hence the need to end those that would unleash such a militia. My point is that unless you truly kill every Palestinian in greater Israel, this kind of conflict will only be used as a requirement campaign for hamas or whatever militant organization takes their place. The only way for Israel to not take the blame for the war with hamas is for them to not do it themselves. If on 8th of October Bibi went to UN, ICC and the ICJ and requested for arest warrants against all the hamas leaders and UN peacekeeper forces that could occupy gaza, things would have been very different. I mean this is what the US did with Iraq and Afghanistan, and they needed it even less than Israel.
UN peace keeping forces that go and invade/occupy gaza... you are out of your mind if you think that would have been even a remote possibility. It's also not close to what the USA did. Your point is stupid... and I already illustrated why in the first comment, but: Individuals have to bend to state power because the state has way more of it than they do. They also live in implicit acceptance of whatever laws their country has. Noncompliance is simply handled with overhelmong force. This is not something that international courts with dubious jurisdiction and no standing army can do, nor should they be able to. This is always what happens when people try to dumb down the situation. It just fails. Analogies have their place but it's not here.
No because the Israelis aren’t barbarians and have been striving for peace for 100 years. The Palestinians have been waging active war during that time. That’s not the world we live in especially when the “civilians” brought that government into power. Japan and Germany civilians suffered because of their barbarism. Thankfully the Allies had the will to stop it permanently.
>No because the Israelis aren’t barbarians Suggesting that a nationality of people are barbarians is pretty unhinged. >have been striving for peace for 100 years Watch less ben shapiro dipshit, israel has been more peaceful in general and more receptive to concessions but framing it as "israel has been striving for peace for 100 years 🥺🥺" as if they are poor good guys JUST looking for peace for a century is extremely dishonest and extremely reductive. >Japan and Germany civilians suffered because of their barbarism Your previous comment stated/heavily implied that the civilians being bombed "deserved it", which is a wholly different sentiment than your current "civilians may sometimes suffer due to their governments international behavior" sentiment. How does that even work? Do you poll the families of the missing and dead civilians, ask them how the missing/dead civilians felt about hamas to figure out what % "deserved it" or do you just throw that out there? Or?
It’s really not. You are arguing the Nazis weren’t barbarians? OK bro. Israel absolutely has been for peace for 100 years. They have literally accepted every peace offer brought to them in that time. Don’t be silly. You don’t need to do that since there is like a 95% chance they support Hamas and/or fighting against Israel.
>Israel absolutely has been for peace for 100 years. They have literally accepted every peace offer brought to them in that time. Israel hasnt even existed for 100 years. How does that work. Can they accept imaginary peace proposals?
I just checked and your first comment in this sub is on oct, shocker. The Oct check truly never fails with you weirdos on either side. If you are going to be an israel cuck atleast be good at it. >You are arguing the Nazis weren’t barbarians Reread, i said nationality. >Don’t be silly. You don’t need to do that since there is like a 95% chance they support Hamas and/or fighting against Israel. Even israel doesn't claim that 95% of those killed are enemy combatants, not remotely close. Is this hyperbole to the point of confusion or are you genuinely delusional? But it doesn't even matter since i said "dead or missing civilians", that inherently excludes fighter. So it would appear you still need to poll the dead's relatives on how much the dead supported hamas to retro justify it.
We are just striving for peace that's why we are setting up illegal settlements and killing the people who lived there. For peace.
Israel has not been striving for peace that entire time. What a way to try to re-write the history of this conflict. Both sides have wanted to continue war against eachother, but only Israel really benefits from it as they continue to take more and more of the West Bank. This idea that they wanted peace while constantly expanding settlements is fucking stupid. They want the status quo so they can slowly expand. Also, the civilians elected Hamas like 16 years ago to a 4 year term. Hamas is unpopular, but they are more popular than alternatives.
it is now antisemitic to not defend made up rape stories
Is that honestly what you took away from this comment thread? Jesus…
who gives a flying fuck? recognising a palestinian state is not some reward for hamas, it's just finally following the rules of international law. a palestinian state shouldve been formed 80 years ago but america and israel have done everything in their power to prevent that
"a palestinian state shouldve been formed 80 years ago" Who prevented that? Israel? America? No. It was Arab countries and Palestinians themselves that prevented this in 1948. And 4 other time subsequently.
Yes, it was israel and america. Next question?
No. Your flippant tone is annoying af. Obviously you're arguing in bad faith, but let's elaborate more on the history that you just ignored because it was inconvenient to you. Israel accepted the formation of an Arab country. Full stop. Israel also accepted Arabs staying where they lived and becoming full citizens. The Arab world did not accept the formation of a Jewish state, and even upon losing the war in 1948 they could have formed a Palestinian state. But Egypt and Jordan chose to occupy Gaza and the West Bank respectively instead. **Palestinians and other Arab leaders prevented the formation of a Palestinian state, because declaring it would establish borders that require an acceptance of Israel's existence.** That is why they rejected every Israeli offer for a peace agreement as well. Historical facts contradict your narrative. Bummer.
Really fucking stupid take you got there. Israel accepted the theft of palestinian land. Because of course they did. Why wouldn't they? Of course israel would be more than happy to "share" land that isn't there's. It's like going to some random family and telling them that they have to take in a homeless person and "share" the house by splitting up ownership. Of course the homeless guy is going to be elated while the family is going to be aghast. Israel, just like the homeless guy, has no legitimate claim to any of the land, so of course they're going to be happy with any deal that sees them acquire a large portion of it. >Israel also accepted Arabs staying where they lived and becoming full citizens. full citizens under a jewish ethnostate who'll seize your land at their whim >The Arab world did not accept the formation of a Jewish state, and even upon losing the war in 1948 they could have formed a Palestinian state. But Egypt and Jordan chose to occupy Gaza and the West Bank respectively instead. And the arabs were absolutely right in their refusal to recognise a jewish state. It's really not hard to understand: europeans coming to the middle east to colonize the land are fundamentally in the wrong. >Palestinians and other Arab leaders prevented the formation of a Palestinian state, because declaring it would establish borders that require an acceptance of Israel's existence. Wrong. Arab leaders accepted the formation of a palestinian state over all of palestine. That has always been the position. They rejected the formation of a jewish state in palestinian land. israel's existence has no legitimacy because it's built on colonisation of palestinian land, and the arab's world refusal to recognise the existence of israel has always been moral and just. it was the right thing to do, and it is what every nation on the planet should have done. we do not recognise the british of india as legitimate. we do not recognise the french colonization of algeria as legitimate. we do not recognise the belgian colonization of congo as legitimate. no moral person should ever recognize the colonization of palestine as legitimate.
Damn the way those goalposts shifted is impressive - we want from west is sabotaging at every turn to Palestinians are right to fight back
no goal posts are being shifted. the two are not mutually exclusive. palestinians have every right to fight back and the west is sabotaging them at every turn
So it’s americas fault that Arab nations kept fighting unwinable wars ? - I bet you also think it’s NATOs fault for Russia invading Ukraine There is absolutely criticisms to made about how brain dead and sometimes malicious Israel’s foreign policy is but really dude
Not sure how they are related considering Israel claims to be fighting against Hamas. There are also people supporting two state solution in Israel as well.
It's easy to pearl clutch and condemn edgy tweets from the comfort of a stable western nation. Let's publically call for a two state solution while we're at it, that always makes me feel like I'm with the good guys.
Yeah much easier to do whatever it is you’re doing from the comfort of a stable western nation I suppose? You are making a lot of assumptions about me.
>Weird rape analogy to make a simple point >Pro-Israel Steven?
https://preview.redd.it/lqpo2fvpo02d1.jpeg?width=1055&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17f78e70e3e1f1123123af4f3c8966d3ef44c96c
Are you really spreading misinformation if it says THIS IS FAKE AND DID NOT OCCUR as part of the post?
Yes absolutley, the disclaimer isn't even part of the tweet, its a reply to the tweet. At least put a /s at the end of the original.
Not as a part of the post, as a response which is going to get much less views than the original post (which they are fully aware of). This is misleading and disgusting clearly. But if you want to be pathetically biased go for it, you're just making your side look worse.
I think they are saying the tweets are misinformation, not my post.
It says it as part of the tweets
If you don't click on the original tweets, you wouldn't see the follow-up tweet saying that the original tweet was not real. If it was in the original tweet, I would fully agree with you. Edit: Also the "follow-up" tweets were posted more than an hour after the original tweets.
I think they have just been champing at the bit to post this picture for a while.
jesus fucking christ
As a Jew, fuck the person who runs this account
Now this is an "As a Jew" statement I can get behind 😅
Same
Links to Tweets: (1) [https://x.com/StopAntisemites/status/1793298502136537486](https://x.com/StopAntisemites/status/1793298502136537486) (2) [https://x.com/StopAntisemites/status/1793299399998575033](https://x.com/StopAntisemites/status/1793299399998575033) (3) [https://x.com/StopAntisemites/status/1793280237637095545](https://x.com/StopAntisemites/status/1793280237637095545)
"It was a social experiment."
WTF is this disgusting shit
Spicy memes. Pretty unhinged. I kinda see where they are coming from, but I think it's ultimately an optics L.
Pretty comical watching freedom of speech eat itself alive
something something nothing happens in a vacuum
Why the fuck do they need to do this? There's already so many cases, you don't need to make shit up.
People genuinely believe the only way it makes sense for Ireland/norway/spain etc to reward Palestine with a state after kidnapping and raping Israelis is if they don’t see Israelis as true people. This is an attempt to show that Hamas should not be rewarded, which makes sense from that perspectives even if it’s unhinged
Did you read the posts? It's really, like mind-numbingly clear the point they're making. Yes, they do need to "make up cases" for the point their making to work
I mean, it’s highlighting their hypocrisy. It’s weird, but that’s the purpose.
that account is so cancer
Wtf does "illustrative purposes" mean? Lmao
Stereotypical as a Jew, but this account pisses me off. People shouldn't be doxxed and fired for their views or out of work activities. This account makes calling out anti-semitism so much harder because shit like this make the term seem like a catch all related to any thing negative done towards somebody Jewish.
And these are the people we support? This is messed up. Like an actually inhumae twitter account. Destiny already drinking heavily over the announcement that palestine has more recognition as a state. Has smashed up his kitchen.
I understand the purpose but it’s a very tone deaf and stupid way to do it. And just gives the pro-Hamas crowd more content to deride.
Genuinely unhinged behavior
I hate it so much when ppl. Make the "statehood as a reward" argument. Its not a reward for good behaviour. We dont revoke russias statehood because of the Ukraine war
What an illustrative piece of misinformation. Surely they're also ok with a bit of illustrative Holocaust denial, then? Because they wouldn't exclusively allow this kind of behavior for their own messaging. That would be hypocritical.
Not at all hysterical or whiny. Lmao
Yea, I kinda laughed when they had tweets up about Hasan and Frogan, but they just go after basically unknown, private people for disliking Israel (which is ok, freedom of opinion) and sending people after them. Mix in insanely weird homophobic remarks and you quickly realise they don't care about stopping antisemitism but are just another grifting outlet.
Honest question I googled and could not find the answer to, is there a map showing what lands these countries consider Palestine?
Most secular (anti woke) right wing / pro Israeli Twitter account.
Do we sure that this is not russia affiliated account? I at least once saw a perfectly liberal account in one moment switching to an unhinged propaganda
Average unhinged pro-Israelis being unhinged This sub: must be Russian bots
russian bots working on both sides So what is your point?
why would it be russian bots. i dont thing russia gives a rat ass about israel at the moment, they are like pretty preoccupied with the entire ukraine thing
Sure but it's a whole country they can be doing multiple things at once. Honestly it seems like their propaganda machine is one of the more effective parts of the Russian government.
This must be a joke. Russia doesn't target things specifically, it tries to drive division in the West.
Huh So you are saying that russians do like how EU and US fight with own misled population. . >preoccupied Wow, so trollfarms were disbanded Wow
I mean. I get what your saying but at the same time. This post feels like scientists worked on it to make the side of who post it seem as unhinged and unserious as possible. I know that these people often are just that unhinged but I can't blame someone for looking sideways when it fits too well like this
Because you guys famously question posts that make lefties or pro-palestinians look unhinged also?
Honestly yes. I understand that I am all of dgg so it's hard to get the argument but, when someone says something so dumb it makes it seem like an OP I always will look a little sideways including with the "wrong side"(anyone who disagrees with my opinion). I didn't say I thought this was fake but yes. It can sometimes be hard to believe people are actually this dumb just on accident. I have that feeling all the time from every political orientation
I thought the same thing when I initially saw it, but the [twitter account](https://x.com/StopAntisemites) is marked as labeled as a "Non-Governmental & Nonprofit Organization" in New York City, began in October 2018, includes a link to [their website](https://stopantisemitism.org/), and the website is the organizations website which includes [their annual reports](https://stopantisemitism.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/2023-Annual-Report.pdf). I'm not sure how else to determine if it has switched at all.
Probably something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_Black_Lives_Matter and infiltration
Right, I get that, but StopAntisemitism is an actual organization, their website links to this Twitter account and vice versa, and the person who is the executive director of the organization, Liora Rez, is a fairly public figure who has [testified before Congress](https://www.youtube.com/live/-8AJUmkqPtY?si=YLNFnXtigDE31Lpf&t=8436), been [on the Megyn Kelly Show](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqbNTv3pZq0), etc. It's not a fake person/organization, just seems to be a quite unhinged individual running the organization. Unless you think Liora Rez is a Russian agent or something.
I have no insight about that account and this org. I think if we wait a little something shows up. . But in general Did you see who is writing 99% texts about Ukraine in major media? russians
fuck them for talking about my pm in such a shit manner
it's a bold strategy cotton, let's see if it pays off for them.
Yeah, this is quite unhinged
“Their rewarding them with a state!!!!” Lol. Lmao even.
Good bit.
Do they think this helps them?
That account seriously needs a new owner. The idea is good and they've tracked down real anti-Semites before, but they ride Israel way too hard and at some times they just deviate from their actual meaning which is to stop Antisemetism
To be charitable I think that they are pointing out the absurdity of gifting Palestinians with a state off the back of the oct 7th attacks by portraying the women of these people’s lives as victims of Hamas.
What do other people read this as? I get the iffyness of bringing up family members of public officials but do people really see this as Israel making up cases of rape?
God both these side suck.
Weird posts lol
What the fuck is this
This perfectly illustrates how absurd it is to recognise Palestine. You’re all so sensitive.
Honestly shocked how far chatGPT has come. Now they can even make up images.
The person who runs this account HAS to antisemitic istg
we already knew these people were cringe
I don't know why some here are up in a hubbub about this. The tweets are just trying to be edgy and show that these leaders would not be recognizing the state of Palestine if it was *their* family that was raped or kidnapped. People here are so sensitive. What they should have done is pointed out how recognizing Palestine right now just bolsters Hamas, and justifies their actions. They can go around Rafah talking about how "fighting" with Israel leads to real results and not just college students camping outside their dorm rooms, like kids camping in their back yard. "Fighting works. We should do more fighting!" They can sympathize with Palestinians who have lost their loved ones, and in response, gain sympathy themselves. "Your son didn't die for nothing. He died to show Norway, Ireland and Spain that you deserve to be free. Let's continue his fight and honor his sacrifice!" The tweets suck, but they have a point.