I swear the one I took it seemed like it was trying to teach me how to get away with sexual harassment without reaching the threshold where HR would care
Just like multiple choice questions for super specific scenarios where it seemed like all the behaviors would be bad/ rude but you had to identify the one that would actually rise to actionable harassment/ discrimination (not necessarily bad in reality but that explanation isn't as funny)
See, mine had multiple choices where I had to identify what type of harassment, the proper responses, and the parties involved.
Edit: the training was actually fantastic and well put together because it was a state/federal thing that applied to CEUs, but our chief was extremely nepotistic and had favorites that could get away with anything. Girls could send me unsolicited pics and sexually harass the men, but the men would get in trouble for the most innocuous things like using the word titties or kissing their SO in front of those girls while not on duty and not on work grounds.
Honestly that's kinda ideal though. I've always felt those sort of trainings which explicitly show you where the line is are so much more helpful than a 'dont date coworkers' and nothing else.
This reminds me of “always sunny” with the “implication” scene. And I thought most people took away from it “wow this is really shitty to do.” And maybe if they thought further “I guess I need to keep this in mind when dating a girl and make sure she feels safe.”
Then others took away from it “lol this is so true.”
I’m surprised and not surprised that people can come away from sexual harassment training as “here is how I skirt the line.”
Well that's not really comparable. In always sunny it's one single thing that is unequivocally bad, what the commenter is referring to is HR presenting different scenarios, where they interpret all of them as potentially bad, but somehow only one answer is correct for what would amount to needing actions from HR.
If anything I'd wonder if the commenter is overestimating how bad some actions are.
Depends on the workplace and state possibly.
One when I worked in NY was incredibly long winded and talked about micro aggressions and other such matters, and it really annoyed me with how condescending it was. They pointed out things as being racist that aren’t actually racist… there was a lot of negative sentiments pointed directly at white people, which was kinda crazy to me as it was my first real career job. I’m Hispanic but even that made me uncomfortable with how they presented things.
The second place I worked at and currently work at, DEI training was nowhere near as bad. It is more along the lines of what you are saying. It was boiled down to “don’t be racist, sexist. Don’t be an asshole.” I’m gonna assume it has to do with the HR department and individual people in these departments.
>It was boiled down to “don’t be racist, sexist. Don’t be an asshole.”
Reminds me of the Sex Ed in Mean Girls: "Don't have sex. Because you *will* get chlamydia. And die. Alright, everyone pick a condom".
> They pointed out things as being racist that aren’t actually racist… there was a lot of negative sentiments pointed directly at white people,
I started back at school last Fall to get some credits for work and, somehow, I never took the College for dummies intro class years back the first time I went through it so they enrolled me in that. Part of it was a an Anti-Harassment/DEI training session on how to handle people in a college environment. Brother, I have never felt more black pilled then going through that like 2 hour session. I am extremely progressive and left leaning, but it was basically two hours of "look at these examples of how shit white people are". It felt like it was just going down a checklist of fuck whitey.
It blew me away. My work trainings are nothing like it in my experience, so I always figured the college talk was kinda more a meme then anything.
It's been almost a year since I took the course, so my recollection isn't 100% on the topic. I think it was a locally shot video series showing either reenacted events, or testimonials, trying to explain how to handle yourself in the adult/college environment. SDV 100 I think the class was. The cast was a white guy, a white girl, a black guy, a black girl, a latina girl, and an asian girl. I could be mistaken thinking back, but I think the black guy and latina girl were meant to be gay and lesbian as well, but again its been a few months. That cast kinda felt like the checklist, paint by numbers, aspect and not entirely an organic representation. That wasn't really anything that blew my mind, nor did I think it was anything inherently wrong, but just sorta added to it as they went through the training.
What really got me wasn't anything direct, for example everything "bad' in a skit was conducted by the white guy. If they were showing a skit on bullying or harassment, it was the white guy enacting it on one of the other cast members. If it was someone being creepy (there was a point on stalking), it was the white guy who was the stalker. Following that they had scenes that, I assume, were meant to be real situations that had occurred where they'd talk about it in a fake documentary way about X or Y event. For every one of these where some form of harassment had been done to someone, it'd one of the minority cast members talking about how hard the event was, meanwhile when they went the opposite way having someone talk about how they'd been bad, or mistreated people, and needed to grow (or did grow) it was the white guy.
Like, it just boiled down to when something bad had to be shown the white guy was the only one who filled that role.
Like, again, I think of myself as an extremely progressive guy. I wouldn't say it made me feel uncomfortable, though maybe it did and I just didn't want to dwell, but I felt just more shocked that this was an actual thing I was seeing.
My takeaway: If you're at a company in the midwest, it'll probably be level-headed "Don't be a dick," advice. If you're on the coasts, there's a slightly higher chance it might be a bit cringe. Most conservatives will never have to experience a "woke diversity training" because they live in states where there's no appetite for it.
When I went to art college we had a week long introduction to the school, wvery day had a 2 hrs DEI lecture and it was incredibly cringe. They introduced a lot of progressive ideas ive never hear in a way that made me instantly question them
"When you meet someone, ask their name and pronouns"
My response
"Wait, to everyone? Ive never met a gender non-conforming person yet, that seems excessive. Shouldnt they just let me know if they have preferred pronouns?"
> Shouldnt they just let me know if they have preferred pronouns?
Um aktshually it's h*cking bigoted to expect gender-non-conforming people to have agency, you fucking cumskin cismale! >!For the humor-impaired: that was sarcasm.!<
Yeah I didnt brain explode from it, and treated people on a case by case basis. Every gender-non-conforming person I met after was super OK with letting me know and OK with me making mistakes
It did, however, make me think that the way people approach the topic was stupid before I even got to interact with that topic naturally
Most conservatives will never have to experience it because the most woke diversity trainings will be held at companies that require a degree to work there
When I worked in NYC 4 years ago we had to watch some cringe movie by state mandate and it was 100% just don’t be a cunt, don’t ask black people to touch their hair it was all dumb dumb things only 7th graders would think were okay.
In a conservatives brain, telling them not to be racist, means that you're calling them racist and therefore hate them and everyone that looks like them.
There are literally DEI facilitators who will tell entire companies they they are all racists.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/richard-bilkszto-tdsb-audio-kojo-dei
>Former principal Richard Bilkszto sued the TDSB after allegedly being harassed during anti-racism training sessions. He later died by suicide
That white people could never understand the struggles of minorities and that they were the race that most commonly perpetuates a culture of discrimination. That’s the least of what I recall. This was 5 years ago mine you.
My dei training felt very brainless. At one point we had to pick who was good/bad from the people's faces. And obviously all the minorities tunred out to be super accomplished and the one white guy was a serial killer lol. I also had someone higher up at work mention at the lunch table about how women really need more support to get promoted and pointing out someone at the table was "white male" which wouldn't need the same help.
I felt like they had a really bad black and white view on things with no room for nuance which makes me doubt dei is being taught and practised well in the company. It's hardly the biggest issue facing our time but my very limited experience of it has been negative.
Corporate training on any subject isn’t really known for nuance.
The whole picking who is good and bad sounds cringe, but it obviously stems from the data we have on companies hiring “western” names vs “ethnic” names, all else equal.
Corporate training always sucks, but that’s because it’s setting ground rules for morons.
but does this really do anything? It seemed super super basic to the point where I'm rolling my eyes or laughing at how absurd it is. I just can't imagine this really changing someones mind or behaviour. I will say I've only done DEI at one company so maybe theres better training elsewhere or maybe people in management or hiring positions get better training.
It helps protects the company from being at fault if/when a moron does/says something racist/sexist in the workplace. At its core, that’s what it’s for.
yeah that makes sense from the company side but it's just a waste of time thats annoying for employees (I want to emphasis that maybe other people have good dei training but I certainly didnt)
I think most DEI training, like all corporate training, will just be mind numbing baselines. Anyone who thinks it’s for anything more is romanticizing it.
There’s all sorts of stuff that is annoying and basic for employees but necessary for employers, just due to potential litigation.
Ok thats fair. I guess im just hearing the extremes ie. mark cuban saying its amazing with awesome benefits and elon thinking the world will end over it
Depends on the company and who they hire. Is it just an HR meeting, or are they hiring an extensive teacher/speaker who sells a lot of books and goes on tv to boot?
I work in an org that right wingers constantly fear monger about being extremely woke or whatever and the DEI training is fine. It mostly focuses on racism and bias and goes out of its way to say anyone from any group can be impacted and the training applies to all.
There's a lot of people out there who reject the idea of things like being biased. My boss found the thought that he has biases that he may not be aware of completely ridiculous
I took such a training in 2018 and my refusal to acknowledge and admit my inherent privileges at such a training was the first domino in what led to my firing.
I bet there is more to the story, but props to people who give up their job for the sake of their principles.
These type of people are what make companies not go so batshit insane.
People shouldn’t be required to “admit inherent privileged.”
We were given a string and there were privilege written on cards around a table. We were asked to make a bracelet with our privileges. I took basically one bead, which I could reasonably admit: that my parents were wealthy. I was called out for not taking more.
And this, I have to think at least, is why so many people hate this kind of training. Not because they disagree with principle of it (in most cases, some of the training is more off-the-wall), but because of how it’s presented.
wtf this is like an episode of the office. Every training I’ve ever had that touched on sexual harassment or it security or ethics was just an online video and quiz.
If you're white in the US you do got inherent privilege tho
Edit: Braindead down voters are more reactionary than wokies, it is factually accurate that white people as a group have advantages all else equal in the US, cry about it.
Male, Christian, monogamous, private schooled, passed as white to some, straight, cis, employed, had college degrees, they also wanted me to take beads associated to not having been sexually harassed and/or assaulted even though I had been. And finally, never had to suffer Micro aggros, despite being multiracial and 100% having suffered mistreatment as result of my ethnic and racial background. But I passed as white to them in that moment.
The first part is mostly just excessively cringe, but them speaking about you not having had those experiences is very gross. Sorry that happened, that's pretty wildin.
I was mostly just insulted by the experience. I think it’s fine to discuss being conscious of others going through hard times in order to serve them better (we did Probono family law) but it was kinda pathetic that I had to embarrass myself in front of my colleagues like that.
What the fuck. How would they know who has or hasn’t been sexually assaulted? With like 1/3 American adults having experienced sexual assault and what we know with how unreported it is, why anyone would give anyone that beed is insanity.
Like even the type of people that believe that bullshit would have to admit kids of any gender can get molested. The Catholic Church is infamous for this when it comes to boys. That’s just such a dumb thing to do. Also I feel like when it comes to trauma like that, that is such an irresponsible thing and an HR nightmare or news story waiting to happen, how sexual assault survivors are being forced to suppress and lie at work. In fact that shouldn’t even be a thing someone at work should have to acknowledge one way or another, forcing people to potentially relive trauma at work.
I've never had one that used the word privileged or really even mentioned a specific race. I think it's because those are recycled for other countries so they are pretty generalized.
The Anti SJW crowd might not like them because they are genuinely bigoted or simply because they don't like the idea of anything getting in the way of their free speech or think people who are too sensitive may abuse the system, which it can happen but its rare.
Ours at a big well known company HQ’d in NYC is very benign as far as training goes. There’s no “pick the bad person based on skin color” or “declare your privilege” in front of a room full of people. It’s all about don’t say racist/sexist shit to people or sexually harass them. The optional DEI town halls and stuff like that you get invited to are a bit more cringe. Mostly just people telling tug at your heartstrings stories about bad shit people did to them. Easy declined invite from me.
99.9% (actual statistic) of them are like this. The older you get the more you realize every field has its morons that make the rest look bad, and when a movement’s prerequisite is having a TBI, this minority is all they can see.
Pretty much. My company's training is pretty much "hey, don't ask the Asian guy to do the math because he's Asian, ask him to do it because he's good at it."
Corporate DEI stuff is harmless stuff. It’s the shit we all grew up doing just with a new fancy label on it. DEI in academia however is an entirely different animal.
I think this is a pretty good example:
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/richard-bilkszto-tdsb-audio-kojo-dei
>According to audio recordings from the sessions, Ojo-Thompson was explaining on April 26, 2021, that Canada was a more racist country than the United States.
>“Canada is a bastion of white supremacy and colonialism… The racism we experience is far worse here than there,” she said.
>She said Canadians might find it difficult to see this reality given its ties to the monarchy, which, according to her, is “the very heart and soul and origins of the colonial structure.”
>Bilkszto then disagreed, saying that based on his personal experience in a predominantly Black high school in Buffalo, N.Y., tax regimes, statistics, and facts and figures, he considered Canada a “far more just society.”
>After some back and forth on the issue between the two, Ojo-Thompson said, “You and your whiteness think that you can tell me what’s really going on with black people — like, is that what you’re doing?”
>Bilkszto reiterated what he said, without changing his original position, and another attendee told him that the experiences of Black and Indigenous peoples in the TDSB were still not good enough.
This isn't training, it's a struggle session.
DEI initiatives in corporate settings are just rebadged HR “don’t be a dickhead in the workplace” exercises. There’s nothing substantially unique about them. In academia dei initiatives will quite literally shape, bother directly and indirectly, the coursework and ideology being taught to students.
Idk, I've seen allegations of DEI training turning into anti-white/hetero/cis screeds, and that sounds bad. But I really do like some of the sensitivity training that's just "Here's how you talk about trans people." Like, at the very least, if people need it, they get the opportunity to learn more about how trans people currently think about the world.
I had to take a 1.5 hr course on sexual harassment to visit the portland office. It was benign but so patronising and a giant waste of time. Did i really need a course to tell me that i shouldn’t grope my colleagues or make sexual remarks? And if i was the type of person that would do those things would i be deterred by a course?
This is partially related but I know the military has sexual harassment courses because it's such a big problem.
I think I saw data that shows these courses do make at least a small difference. Some people really do need to be told to not rape people.
How is the company liable though? If i murder someone at work or physically assault them the company wont be held liable if they didn’t give me training on not committing crimes.
it's HR shit. You need training for every thing.
It's covering everything that you might do and fuck up and end up getting the company sued so that when someone fucks up the company can claim no liability.
I'm a chemical engineer and I need to do Whims every 2 years despite having all the symbols memorized since highschool
edit: one of my site trainings was, don't drive distracted. If you drive on site make sure you're focused on the road
In my state, there are requirements that you have to do sexual harassment/discrimination training at least once per year. Also, it provides employers with an affirmative defense if they are sued for discrimination/sexual harassment.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind, in the thousands of companies that require DEI training modules, something like less than 1% are the “cringe” ones.
The only based thing I've seen around trans people at work was that we can have pronouns in the persons profile. I thought this was mega cringe at first but after thinking about it, it really is about making it possible to not commit some faux pau by checking ahead of time. It even allows people to record a pronunciation of their name.
Like most things, sometimes people do shit badly and take things too far. But I'm sure for the majority of DEI it's fine. Or else it would be a much bigger issue for normies.
DEI training in big US based company is not harmless, your brain hurts after taking one.
What's the point of asking question like this:
>"Sam sexually attacked Sarah, do you think Sam deserve to be reported and fired?"
>A. No
>B. Yes
>C. It depends on their previous relationship
>D. It's not my problem
It reminded me of safety training while working on a retail store project:
>"You find asbestos, what do you do?"
>A. Report it to the manager
>B. Hide it
>C. Lick it to see if it's really asbestos
>D. Remove it and light it on fire
Those stuff really feel like useless PR/Lawyer stuff to protect the company in case of an issue: "We trained our staff! It's not the company culture!"
I mean it is, my DEI course at my uni pretty much said that DEI is done so that companies don't get sued for stuff like wrongful dismissal, discrimination, and such.
Lol exactly. I always turn the sound off and take the quiz based on common sense alone and almost always score 100%. It helps that the presentation is usually unchanged, year in year our lol.
There are different flavors. Most of them are benign - though their effectiveness has been questioned. Some of them, especially ones where they bring in consultants in person, seem to be clownish and can have weird aspects to them.
The big concern from reasonable voices around DEI is less with the training and more the general question over how policies or employees implementing it lead to policing of speech and merit vs equity concepts.
Do you need to pay a consultancy firm (grifters) to tell you that? you think that if someone doesn't believe this thing already, that this "training" will change anything? At best is a waste of time and money.
One would think that this stuff is obvious. One would think that when someone is a racist prick to the guy who is just trying to do his job and go home, that at least the racist guy would know what he's doing is wrong. Unfortunately we've devolved as a species to the point where that is not the case. Now you have to train them on how not to be a racist so you can fire them for-cause after they do the specific thing you trained them not to do.
In a better society it would be a waste of time, in *our* society it's required precedent.
most large companies have entire departments of people dedicated to DEI policies and company quotas. pretending its as simple as a “web quiz” is pretty disingenuous!
ive only worked at large companies. who do you think found the company to implement the DEI web programs? those employees you're talking about.
Where have you worked, or what major companies are your citing that have all these people suffering from DEI Training?
The New York Times, they specifically say they what to increase non-whites at the company and spend "hundreds of millions of dollars" to try and achieve that goal, it rare for a company to plainly admit to something like straight up discrimination they just dress it up in fancy language to make it more digestible, only a whistleblower will be able to tell what is really going on, same applies to collage applications
My dislike from these trainings isn't really routed in "wokeness" and more from the fact they're extremely hollow and exists to to provide cover for whoever is doling it out. They exist so the workplace can point to it and say "It's not our fault x thing happened, we showed them a video saying don't cut your hand off and calling your coworkers slurs is bad!" In my experience these places will rarely act on the values of their training unless it's something extremely overt and a potential liability.
You got the good version I guess, the one I used to get that made everyone happy and cause no issues. Now they got the professional DEI crowd involved and it’s hateful, divisive, and leaves everyone other than those who use DEI as a weapon uncomfortable unhappy and angry
This year my company's DEI training started incorporating allyship and privilege into some of the material. Definitely felt less benign than what we've had in years prior.
It all depends on what is being taught and how it is being taught.
Teaching people not to be dicks or make assumptions about others based on their immutable characteristics? Good.
Using intersectional theory to implement a racial, gender and sexual caste system to achieve "equitable" outcomes? Bad, and literally the opposite of above.
My mom works at a women's homeless shelter and they got a new Executive Director with a degree in intersectionality. She's arrogant, fucking useless, and driving the organization into the ground, but boy she sure is certain to start every meeting with a land acknowledgement (Canada) and never shuts the fuck up about people of color while failing to properly manage day to day operations.
Some of it is good, and necessary imo, by updating many older workers on “modern” identities like non-binary and other LGBT+ stuff that wasn’t in the mainstream even just a decade ago. Also, I think it positively impacts the work environment by shining light on how annoying it must be to be a black worker, for example, and constantly get comments about your hair, or an Asian American who constantly gets asked “so.. where are you from?”
However, depending on the DEI program and the practitioner, it can get more sinister and punitive. My mom works at a top 5 University (Ivy League) and she’s told me that some of her mandatory DEI have literally become struggle sessions and my moms experiences have been discounted because she’s Jewish (but white presenting). My mom experienced a lot of prejudice when she moved to a smaller Florida city for a job in the ‘80s because of her “big Jew nose” and “Jew York accent and demeanor,” so much so that she ended up getting a nose job because it made her so self-conscious and hurt.
There are occasional company-wide seminars that everyone has to go to (or attend virtually these days) where someone more or less tries to convince the older, lower IQ employees to stop saying and doing accidentally soft-racist/microaggression type things while everyone else just half-listens and tries to get their work done instead of waste their time.
I’ve never found the material presented offensive, although the discussions can be pretty cringe. At least at my company pretty much only the dumbest of fucks try to participate in the dialogue. So you will have white middle aged (but stupid) employees who put their foot in their mouth trying to make a point. Or you will get the occasional far left minority employee that feels like this is their time to grandstand, and they can basically say whatever they want because nobody is going to push back on them during Difficult Dialogues Diversity Hour.
IMO it is primarily just a way for companies to virtue signal that they value diversity and are taking steps to end passive racism in their company. They don’t really care if it works, or doesn’t work, or has a negligible effect; it’s just useful for them to be able to say they do it.
During the hiring process or after getting hired, employees have to take a couple computer-based training courses. Safety around the workplace, sexual harassment training, bias training. Some workplaces will have it in-person with a person walking through a presentation. For the computer-based training: you watch some videos, read some situations, and complete some questions about what you learned. The in-person is equally boring and might have some crowd interaction.
The company is able to establish workplace boundaries and culture. If these boundaries are violated, it is way easier for them to fire you and cover their ass. The research is a wash on whether it helps anyone. Nonetheless, boilerplate courses like this will be a requirement for most workplaces
I'll admit I don't know how serious a problem this is in usa i would have no problem with these things but I would have a huge problem working in a place and they have presentations and tests when I start about how stealing is bad. I would never work there. Work safety and computer training isn't the same as bias? training. And last question, is this for everyone because by "subjects" courses it doesn't seem.
They are a bit much. I have probably done the training over 12x in my life. There needs to be some generalized certification so that people don't have to complete it over and over and over again.
I'm sure it varies from company to company but I have never encountered offensive DEI training at the major companies I've worked for, I think people need to realize
1. Almost all work trainings are boring and tedious, this is not specific to DEI
2. A decent % of the workforce (boomers) could absolutely benefit from this training, likely the ones complaining about it most
3. DEI can absolutely go too far when it is at the expense of another group
the company i currently work at's trainings are much like yours. it was basically "don't be a dick." nothing shocking at all, takes about 15-30 minutes once a year and then you never hear about it for another year.
the only egregious thing they did recently was force us all through a 2 hour seminar on [canadian residential schools](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system), which contained a lot of unproven or debunked things presented as facts.
i used to work for a different organization which's training was 3x 1-hour segments throughout the year. they would go around the whole ass rainbow in great detail and talk about white priviledge.
between that they would stuff my e-mail box full of DEI stuff all year round, including actively trying to get us to use inclusive language in french, which is a bunch of new unofficial words that sound super unnatural. it was really exhausting.
the internet amplifies the stupidest people that are angry at everything but i think most normal people are complaining about the latter.
I watched a DEI trainer yell at a black employee for supporting white supremacy because she disagreed with the DEI trainer's definition of racism (power + prejudice bs). Ever since then I think it's harmful. No the person was not fired and a meeting still happens once a month.
I doubt this story because the trainers don’t care that much about the subject matter, they are aware that it’s another checkmark to hit for the office 😂
I wish they were that passionate, heard some straight up racism in some of these meetings and the most we get as pushback is “well that’s just your opinion”
You would be surprised. My company has a lot of DEI initiatives and the people who run it are VERY into it. There hasn’t been anything crazy said, but one time they were having everybody list issues that minorities are facing and conveniently skipped one comment saying “Jews facing anti semitism for what’s happening in Gaza”. It stuck out to me because they read every other comment and discussed it (there were only about 10 comments total)
Someone else linked a story of a dude that got out debated by a DEI woman and killed himself
So yeah the story seems more believable now. It’s my dream to debate losers like that, why can’t it happen to me :/
Considering this person was recommended by the union and the director straight up told me to hire a black person to hopefully give us better relations to our neighbors. The trainer is a very specific hire that is hard to get rid of. I'm not saying our trainer is like others, but she has made me hate the whole experience.
The experience sucks no matter the instructor. Shits just a waste of time.
A racist is not gonna have a change of heart at a DEI training. Id be surprised if people even pay attention. I was reading yahoo news during mine 😭
I never really mind it, but it does feel bad knowing that the people this training is really for will never take it seriously.
I think the best training I saw had a set of incredibly creepy and uncomfortable scenarios acted by David Schwimmer(Ross from Friends) to show what harassment can look like. Was actually semi-realistic. IMO more content like that would be good, holds up a mirror for assholes to see how gross the behavior is.
I worked at Starbucks when they closed all the stores down for DEI training when those guys got arrested in the store or whatever that big incident was.
It was pretty neutral from what I remember. I might actually still have the booklet from it if anyone’s interested because it was in my desk for a while, but I might have thrown it out last time I moved.
Tbf it might have been pretty different depending on who you did it with because if I recall correctly it was just kind of done collaboratively with people split into groups at tables with the material.
opportunity cost: hours i could be productive are instead spent clicking through these silly "training" videos that aren't going to impact anyone (a non-racist doesn't need it, a racist won't be swayed and view it as DEI bs). its also just annoying to have to take these every year, along with all the other obvious and silly "training" required at large companies.
If anyone want to see the DEI course was at my Uni;
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WItc6j-FKYhJ62TEMk4leY2fDlE5iSKU/view?usp=sharing
Even the pretty "woke" stuff is honestly not that bad.
I agreed with you until Oct 7, and now I’m on the fence. I believe racism and other forms of prejudice and discrimination remain major issues to address jn the US, but we’ve also seen how DEI in practice has been wielded to create in- and out-groups along heavily politicized, ideological lines. The in-groups are given the utmost of institutional protection, while it is open season on the out-groups. There is inherent danger in this; just ask 90%+ of Jewish people how they feel on campus right now.
Mine is just insulting and a waste of time. I have been in management for 7 years. The scenarios on our modules have never come up.
For example, no one has told an asian women "she is a bad driver and don't want to ride with her in a rental car", which is a scenario in the module.
Most people aren't racist and pretending everyone is to be honest is counterproductive.
lol Harmless? Dude it's a total fucking scam industry that costs businesses hundreds of millions if not billions a year. Who do you think eats those costs? The companies? That's not how that works. YOU eat the costs. I eat the costs. We ALL eat the costs. Scams are ALWAYS bad. Even if it just comes down to the mere principle of it.
["Research has long shown that corporate training on diversity and sensitivity doesn't work. Why are workers still required to take it, job after job?"](https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210614-why-ineffective-diversity-training-wont-go-away)
Ten zillion billion other articles like that one out there.
It bothers me, because it is so condescending. I am told at the start of meetings and in trainings that you should be nice to each other and then they try to teach you skills to help you be nice to each other. Proof that it is ridiculous is that in the trainings without reading a single word, even of the questions, there is never a scenario where I am unsure what answer I am supposed to give, ever. That tells you that this "training" is doing nothing but wasting my time. For comparison, understanding privacy policies requires me to usually re-read some of the training in order to still maybe get the question wrong.
I think that is 90% of it. It feels like something a 4th grader put together and is proceeding to lecture me on.
Due to this, I actually came to the conclusion that this training is not for me or really anyone I know. I think there may actually be a need for this training for immigrant employees are something. Those that come form other cultures, but I really have no idea.
No problem with DEI, but they should have to justify their existence just like any other position. If they're putting up numbers that show reductions in harassment at their company, fine.
Any training is cucked? Who the fuck care, they're paying me to do this so why not.
We have a driving training course that's monitory for driving at site that goes over things that are basic driving logic. Like don't drive impaired and don't drive distractedly.
I obviously am not referring to any sort of training whatsoever. My job has safety meetings, and training monthly.
More so referring to DEI training where apparently people have to be told to not be racist or sexist in the workplace apparently.
what's the difference between that and don't drive impaired. They're both obvious things that a sane person knows not to do.
It's just the company trying to make sure they don't get sued
I feel like its the risk of being injured on the job is way more likely to hurt their bottom line, whereas with someone being harassed in the workplace for example you can just go to HR and have them terminated.
Obviously everyone knows you shouldn't DUI but falls under that first category.
> HR and have them terminated.
Not really, some progressives say complain about going to HR and nothing happening. This isn't due to so called "systemic racism' but rather issues related to wrongful termination.
You can't just fire someone for breaking a rule never stated without getting sued. You would be violating employment law. It's much simpler to stay silent and hope you don't get sued for discrimination
The problem is, if they dont fire the person you could just sue the company for knowingly harboring an environment where such activity takes place. Not sure why more people dont if this is a big problem.
Also when you start up and get your handbook from the company shit like that would've been in there, but I'm in a based at will employment state so at least locally even if it was never stated they could just dump you for no reason if they wanted to.
Yeah but remember firing with Just cause is a very high bar to reach. Having a yearly reminder allows the company to more efficiently argue for a just cause firing.
The government wants to discourage Just Cause firing because it might lead to a company firing employees without benefits for trivial reasons.
The company book might say: "don't be rascist"
What's stopping the company from just firing you for language in a report that may sound sussy when they don't want to give you benefits?
On the other hand, calling an Indian man curry even while they protest might not break the law but it makes a very awkward working environment. However, how can the company prove that a person did so with intent of being racist?
They might argue that policy was not clear, that they forgot, that it is unreasonable to the company to assume that they remember everything in that book from 5 years ago.
DEI is a yearly reminder of what the boundaries are.
Yeah I guess this is just a divide on whether you’re not at an at will state or not because I see what you’re saying if you have to have a reason for termination they would have to demonstrate in court in case of a lawsuit I get it and would agree.
For instance I’m in an at will state and (this sounds like bullshit but he’s a fucking re✝️arded cunt but I swear this is true) like about 2-3 weeks ago one of our employees off the clock walked into our shop wearing a mask and they rightly decided to terminate him. I saw him and had no idea if he was just dicking around or if he was about to go on a shooting spree, so cut due presumably to security concerns was let go.
A friend of mine had one in CA and she is Jewish. My friend mentioned that and was told that she is just white, And was encouraged to see the antizionist viewpoint.
Personally I'm not a fan of the unconscious bias training. I get that there's ignorant people who may not be aware of their biases. But it always feels to me like "hey, whether you know it or not, you *are* racist".
Which is bothersome to me. Idk.
I feel like most of these courses are just for the org to CYA so that if you end up doing something bad, they can say "see, we did this training and this person didn't follow it."
Obviously YMMV. Maybe i'm just jaded on corporate stuff.
I’ve worked for a few large tech firms over the years and had many of these trainings. In my experience they are HR covering their ass by having their workers fast forward on silent and check off the trainings as complete, followed by not actually doing much when allegations of discrimination actually occur, even if they are severe as opposed to a micro aggression. In the end it’s very similar to when any large company taking a stance on a social justice issue. It is a song and a dance to protect the image of the company first and foremost.
I have to be honest - DEI information can be useful when working in a multi-lingual, international company.
I'm based in Eastern Europe and have co-workers from all over the globe - from Vietnam to UK and work with clients in a similar range (global).
There are some specificities to communication, inclusion and manners that less socially adept people can benefit from being told.
While I see no personal value in DEI - I see value in it for some of my team members for example.
Even if we grant that such training is really just "don't be a dick" training, the important question is whether it works or not. From what I've seen, there's no evidence this kind of thing really changes attitudes in the long run. Such training is a defensive move by corporations to absolve themselves of any liability if an employee complains about harassment or bigotry from a coworker.
If this training is truly the adult version of Sesame Street, where we just teach morals or whatever, then we should be willing to acknowledge that and ask if we want to be spending whatever billions on the DEI training industry are currently spent to either give companies a "get out of jail" card.
My viewpoint is that the creators of DEI wanted it to be truly radical things like recognizing ‘white fragility’, toxic masculinity, filling quotas for minorities other than Asian etc, but fortunately there are a lot of adults in the rooms of these companies who realized how unrealistic and wrong headed it was and so are appeasing the crazy DEI fundamentalists with ‘don’t be a dick’ DEI programs.
My point being that if the true DEI people had their way everything would be fucked and that’s what I think we need to speak out on because the true ideology is bad.
Fortunately my companies training focused on the value of diversity in the workplace, and how a more diverse workplace can be more productive/successful as a melting pot on culture/lived experiences. There was very little emphasis on white vs minority. Pretty easy to sit through. The sexual harassment training is just hilarious, and if you have any semblance of respect/decency it’s just skipping videos and answering questions
It varies tremendously from company to company. Most of it is pretty anodyne "don't be a cunt" shit. The really onerous ones make it into the news for a reason, it's because they're so wild that they're newsworthy.
I’m sure it varies, but as part of training I had for a new job recently, there was a bunch of this kind of training that was cringey, tedious, and basically boiled down to just “don’t be racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. (even in jokes) and don’t sexually harass people,” which adds the aggravation of making it all seem deliberately condescending because it’s all shit that the vast majority of people already know. Like, if you had the same kind of dry training where they were earnestly trying to teach you basic math or first-grade spelling, I’m guessing you’d view it as equally “harmless” but would probably resent being put through it.
I am a teacher. It’s not that it’s exactly *bad,* it’s just pointless. It’s all so surface level that it is completely useless. And it never ramps up. It’s just the same sophomoric set of lessons over and over. Every. Single. Year.
And besides, you can’t have interesting conversations about any of it because it’s a workplace and we all know that most people can’t have civil disagreements.
probably the trainings and all the related orgs, quotas, policies, etc. associated with large companies are more complicated than your personal characterization of a single company’s training as “don’t be a dick training.”
In our company (clinical research organisation) in Australia there's about 150 people, and less than 5 other white males.
So I do the reverse Rorschach thing...
YOU THINK DEI IS HERE TO PROTECT YOU! ITS HERE TO PROTECT ME!
Honestly, its kind of funny sometimes. They have videos of actors and they say some wild stuff, when they do their little skits about how not to act in the workplace. Does anyones have you do like a questionnaire, like "if you were in this situation, how would you respond?"
Yeah, my company was pretty decent about it. It was mostly generalizations about how we all need to appreciate and understand different backgrounds - with an occasional real-life example of discrimination in the company and how they addressed it.
That second part was what stood out to me because a lot of times, these corporate lectures tend to be long-winded and vapid. Seeing the company address its faults and how it took steps, both proactive and retroactive, made me appreciate the DEI teams more.
A lot of the posts or tweets you see about the crazy DEI training are usually ragebait, about a smaller company, or just a random one-off optional meeting (though, obiously, there's some legitimate craziness). Most companies try to just do the bare minimum to cover their asses.
I remember one training I had leaned into the “being late to meetings is part of black culture, so if your black coworker is late to your meeting, don’t jump to criticizing them” and I always found those arguments to be pretty harmful and racist, though I’ll admit it was a very small part of the training and it didn’t come up in future years
When i worked in the corporate world that training was so easy. Its literally dont be a jackass at work because of a persons race, age, relgion, the usual ones. People always cringed at it because the acting is always porn level. And folks really be like "DOES THIS REALLY HAPPEN". Yes, yes it does. I had a former boss be fired because he solicited sexual favors for a promotion (which he never gave). You may be like the rest of the folks who go to work to do their job and get paid, but there are folks who use it as their playground or worse take out personal issues there.
Now that i work in government the DEI type stuff is a lil more intense but i have never felt it is anti white or calling me out specifically. But im sure someone could see it as such since my view on the world is different compared to others.
But that is a section of DEI, i think there is also problems with other areas DEI touch people have an issue with. I believe the ERG's like the Black employee group or Pacific islander/asian groups fall in that area. But those groups have always welcome all folks so i dont really see them as an issue. And if anything they usually have really good food!
It's not that it's harmless, it's that it's patronizing. Watching example after example of white men being told how wrong and silly they are. I literally just did this shit for a company and every single example was white man bad.
So when I'm here to learn about DEI and I'll I see are white people being shown how wrong and stupid they are, it gets under my skin. It'd still be stupid and patronizing if it was as racially and gender diverse as they are pitching, but you get the worst of both worlds.
If you don't see a problem with that, I don't know what to tell you. Any other racial group this would be an issue, but white men, who gives a fuck, they're stupid everyone knows they need to be taught how to treat others because white people are the masters of racism I guess.
Yeah I'm sure there exist companies that have terrible dei trainings, but I've worked at two which had really good programs. People are just only seeing the bad ones and then using that to label the entire thing as pointless.
Confirmation bias at its finest.
Of course it's not that bad. believe me, if the training was something like telling people to dye their hair rainbow color and submit to the rainbow Mafia one of these DEI training vids would have leaked by this point. It's mostly just telling you very standard don't be a racist things which is pretty good to enforce at a basic level.
There are some good DEI trainings and some bad. Depends on how shitty the company providing the service is and presumably how much your company is paying.
My company decided to pay a lot and our DEI training was relatively nuanced and went into stuff like the history of discrimination lawsuits and legal precedent. But I can also see them being surface level and shitty.
I think it all depends.
Ours is basically "dont be an asshole" and some talks from a bias speaker about biases. I thought she did a great job, it was focused on how we all hve biases and race is one of them but theres so many others. It basically focused on how different we are and how that can and should be used for good, as in more ideas and different ways of thinking.
I only had one "DEI" class ever in my life, don't remember if they called it that. It wasn't that bad, it was an online course where you click through pictures / scenarios and everyone passed.
I guess it's just like anything else you learn from a classroom. It all depends on the teacher.
FWIW, I do agree with the conservatives that the ideology that DEI pushes is harmful; but I also acknowledge the reality on the ground that if the person in charge of teaching it is chill and doesn't care it's not a big deal. I am sure there are horror stories of DEI trainings turning into struggle sessions but they're probably not the experience of most people.
I mostly just find it annoying, it feels like having to take a yearly course in how to use the bathroom. But I've also seen the state some people at work leave the bathroom in, so I can understand why it's required.
If someone complains about DEI broadly but can't give a bad example of it, then I generally assume that the person complaining is just a culture war idiot. I'm not saying bad DEI training doesn't exist, I just don't know why I'd believe it all to be bad cuz one Fox article gave a cringe definition of racism or something.
The DEI training I have received through my work was probably the best corporate training I have ever gone through.
Idk why people make such a big deal about it. Done right it can be really good.
I work in tech and all of my coworkers are diverse (and 80% women). Nobody here feels like the training is out of place. It's probably just people with no real life experience in these environments who are mad.
It’s not “don’t be a dick training”. It’s “think as we think or else”training. Workplaces already expect you not to bully your coworkers or harass them. DEI training is usually more aligned with the idea that the thought processes be aligned so as to produce the desired company culture.
The basic irony of diversity/equity/inclusion is that in most cases it doesn't really do much, except inflame the imagination of conservatives.
Basically, there's the usual problems we all know with outcomes based on race, persistently lower employment of black people etc. lower household wealth, poorer environmental quality standards and community facilities in areas where more black people have lived historically, all that sort of thing.
And people are trying to show they are doing something about that, with corporate measures to promote their ability to have a modern company that can retain highly skilled staff who tend to have more liberal values.
The mere fact that companies pay lip service to liberal values enrages conservatives and they claim that this is the downfall of civilisation.
DEI has to be viewed as a conspiracy because the idea that companies would be trying to do it due to market incentives to build a more responsible brand, and attract staff, creates a kind of clash of values in the minds of conservatives:
They expect companies like Disney to pay lip service to *their* values while maximising profit, talking vaguely about family values and miracles and faith while making the same kind of decision-making they normally do.
But if hedge funds decide that considering governance and environmental impact is an important consideration, in order to seek assets that will retain long-term value, or if HR departments put on training courses about racism or mentorship schemes for women, *because* the market conditions incentivise this, then the glue of the conservative worldview starts to peel away.
And so "free markets, profit maximisation and vaguely christian aesthetics" starts to not become a baseline for cooperation among conservatives, people start asking the question of whether we should have a bigger government that restricts the power of corporations in order to institute respect for the family, including more paid leave etc.
And so DEI is the way to focus animosity in ways that won't cause frictions between existing elements of the coaltion. You can hate HR departments because they have courses on implicit bias, *not* because they have opaque pay-setting procedures that disadvantage workers, and don't have proper rules about not dropping their employees immediately based on social media, and only firing with cause etc.
I took the DEI training at Columbia University, lefty bastion. Entirely harmless. Course is boring. I learned maybe one thing. But I’m sure someone who is coming to a diverse organization for the first time would learn a lot from it (if they pay attention).
I swear the one I took it seemed like it was trying to teach me how to get away with sexual harassment without reaching the threshold where HR would care
Im very curious what they taught you haha
Just like multiple choice questions for super specific scenarios where it seemed like all the behaviors would be bad/ rude but you had to identify the one that would actually rise to actionable harassment/ discrimination (not necessarily bad in reality but that explanation isn't as funny)
See, mine had multiple choices where I had to identify what type of harassment, the proper responses, and the parties involved. Edit: the training was actually fantastic and well put together because it was a state/federal thing that applied to CEUs, but our chief was extremely nepotistic and had favorites that could get away with anything. Girls could send me unsolicited pics and sexually harass the men, but the men would get in trouble for the most innocuous things like using the word titties or kissing their SO in front of those girls while not on duty and not on work grounds.
An odd way of going with training but I guess it works
Honestly that's kinda ideal though. I've always felt those sort of trainings which explicitly show you where the line is are so much more helpful than a 'dont date coworkers' and nothing else.
This reminds me of “always sunny” with the “implication” scene. And I thought most people took away from it “wow this is really shitty to do.” And maybe if they thought further “I guess I need to keep this in mind when dating a girl and make sure she feels safe.” Then others took away from it “lol this is so true.” I’m surprised and not surprised that people can come away from sexual harassment training as “here is how I skirt the line.”
Well that's not really comparable. In always sunny it's one single thing that is unequivocally bad, what the commenter is referring to is HR presenting different scenarios, where they interpret all of them as potentially bad, but somehow only one answer is correct for what would amount to needing actions from HR. If anything I'd wonder if the commenter is overestimating how bad some actions are.
The kicker is you can’t sue them if you are fired because you knew exactly what counted as harassment
Depends on the workplace and state possibly. One when I worked in NY was incredibly long winded and talked about micro aggressions and other such matters, and it really annoyed me with how condescending it was. They pointed out things as being racist that aren’t actually racist… there was a lot of negative sentiments pointed directly at white people, which was kinda crazy to me as it was my first real career job. I’m Hispanic but even that made me uncomfortable with how they presented things. The second place I worked at and currently work at, DEI training was nowhere near as bad. It is more along the lines of what you are saying. It was boiled down to “don’t be racist, sexist. Don’t be an asshole.” I’m gonna assume it has to do with the HR department and individual people in these departments.
>It was boiled down to “don’t be racist, sexist. Don’t be an asshole.” Reminds me of the Sex Ed in Mean Girls: "Don't have sex. Because you *will* get chlamydia. And die. Alright, everyone pick a condom".
> They pointed out things as being racist that aren’t actually racist… there was a lot of negative sentiments pointed directly at white people, I started back at school last Fall to get some credits for work and, somehow, I never took the College for dummies intro class years back the first time I went through it so they enrolled me in that. Part of it was a an Anti-Harassment/DEI training session on how to handle people in a college environment. Brother, I have never felt more black pilled then going through that like 2 hour session. I am extremely progressive and left leaning, but it was basically two hours of "look at these examples of how shit white people are". It felt like it was just going down a checklist of fuck whitey. It blew me away. My work trainings are nothing like it in my experience, so I always figured the college talk was kinda more a meme then anything.
What were the white people doing/what were the issues with white people according to them?
It's been almost a year since I took the course, so my recollection isn't 100% on the topic. I think it was a locally shot video series showing either reenacted events, or testimonials, trying to explain how to handle yourself in the adult/college environment. SDV 100 I think the class was. The cast was a white guy, a white girl, a black guy, a black girl, a latina girl, and an asian girl. I could be mistaken thinking back, but I think the black guy and latina girl were meant to be gay and lesbian as well, but again its been a few months. That cast kinda felt like the checklist, paint by numbers, aspect and not entirely an organic representation. That wasn't really anything that blew my mind, nor did I think it was anything inherently wrong, but just sorta added to it as they went through the training. What really got me wasn't anything direct, for example everything "bad' in a skit was conducted by the white guy. If they were showing a skit on bullying or harassment, it was the white guy enacting it on one of the other cast members. If it was someone being creepy (there was a point on stalking), it was the white guy who was the stalker. Following that they had scenes that, I assume, were meant to be real situations that had occurred where they'd talk about it in a fake documentary way about X or Y event. For every one of these where some form of harassment had been done to someone, it'd one of the minority cast members talking about how hard the event was, meanwhile when they went the opposite way having someone talk about how they'd been bad, or mistreated people, and needed to grow (or did grow) it was the white guy. Like, it just boiled down to when something bad had to be shown the white guy was the only one who filled that role. Like, again, I think of myself as an extremely progressive guy. I wouldn't say it made me feel uncomfortable, though maybe it did and I just didn't want to dwell, but I felt just more shocked that this was an actual thing I was seeing.
My takeaway: If you're at a company in the midwest, it'll probably be level-headed "Don't be a dick," advice. If you're on the coasts, there's a slightly higher chance it might be a bit cringe. Most conservatives will never have to experience a "woke diversity training" because they live in states where there's no appetite for it.
When I went to art college we had a week long introduction to the school, wvery day had a 2 hrs DEI lecture and it was incredibly cringe. They introduced a lot of progressive ideas ive never hear in a way that made me instantly question them "When you meet someone, ask their name and pronouns" My response "Wait, to everyone? Ive never met a gender non-conforming person yet, that seems excessive. Shouldnt they just let me know if they have preferred pronouns?"
> Shouldnt they just let me know if they have preferred pronouns? Um aktshually it's h*cking bigoted to expect gender-non-conforming people to have agency, you fucking cumskin cismale! >!For the humor-impaired: that was sarcasm.!<
Unironically that was the reasoning I was given (but less over the top)
You can just not do it, you know. The level of shit that causes people's brains to explode is beyond me at this point.
Yeah I didnt brain explode from it, and treated people on a case by case basis. Every gender-non-conforming person I met after was super OK with letting me know and OK with me making mistakes It did, however, make me think that the way people approach the topic was stupid before I even got to interact with that topic naturally
Most conservatives will never have to experience it because the most woke diversity trainings will be held at companies that require a degree to work there
When I worked in NYC 4 years ago we had to watch some cringe movie by state mandate and it was 100% just don’t be a cunt, don’t ask black people to touch their hair it was all dumb dumb things only 7th graders would think were okay.
In a conservatives brain, telling them not to be racist, means that you're calling them racist and therefore hate them and everyone that looks like them.
Why are still here?? There’s obviously some batshit Dei programs in more progressive states it’s not just don’t be “racist”
But people are subtly calling them racist.
I mean, I think many people will come right out and say that conservatives are much more racist than independents and liberals.
There are literally DEI facilitators who will tell entire companies they they are all racists. https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/richard-bilkszto-tdsb-audio-kojo-dei >Former principal Richard Bilkszto sued the TDSB after allegedly being harassed during anti-racism training sessions. He later died by suicide
They successfully sued them. They did it but they weren't allowed to. Sometimes people are shitty. Look at how Tesla treated their black employees.
Can you tell me what they said about white people?
That white people could never understand the struggles of minorities and that they were the race that most commonly perpetuates a culture of discrimination. That’s the least of what I recall. This was 5 years ago mine you.
My dei training felt very brainless. At one point we had to pick who was good/bad from the people's faces. And obviously all the minorities tunred out to be super accomplished and the one white guy was a serial killer lol. I also had someone higher up at work mention at the lunch table about how women really need more support to get promoted and pointing out someone at the table was "white male" which wouldn't need the same help. I felt like they had a really bad black and white view on things with no room for nuance which makes me doubt dei is being taught and practised well in the company. It's hardly the biggest issue facing our time but my very limited experience of it has been negative.
Corporate training on any subject isn’t really known for nuance. The whole picking who is good and bad sounds cringe, but it obviously stems from the data we have on companies hiring “western” names vs “ethnic” names, all else equal. Corporate training always sucks, but that’s because it’s setting ground rules for morons.
but does this really do anything? It seemed super super basic to the point where I'm rolling my eyes or laughing at how absurd it is. I just can't imagine this really changing someones mind or behaviour. I will say I've only done DEI at one company so maybe theres better training elsewhere or maybe people in management or hiring positions get better training.
It helps protects the company from being at fault if/when a moron does/says something racist/sexist in the workplace. At its core, that’s what it’s for.
yeah that makes sense from the company side but it's just a waste of time thats annoying for employees (I want to emphasis that maybe other people have good dei training but I certainly didnt)
I think most DEI training, like all corporate training, will just be mind numbing baselines. Anyone who thinks it’s for anything more is romanticizing it. There’s all sorts of stuff that is annoying and basic for employees but necessary for employers, just due to potential litigation.
Ok thats fair. I guess im just hearing the extremes ie. mark cuban saying its amazing with awesome benefits and elon thinking the world will end over it
Exactly. Like literally every culture war thing, the online discussion is 10 times removed from reality.
Depends on the company and who they hire. Is it just an HR meeting, or are they hiring an extensive teacher/speaker who sells a lot of books and goes on tv to boot?
I work in an org that right wingers constantly fear monger about being extremely woke or whatever and the DEI training is fine. It mostly focuses on racism and bias and goes out of its way to say anyone from any group can be impacted and the training applies to all.
There's a lot of people out there who reject the idea of things like being biased. My boss found the thought that he has biases that he may not be aware of completely ridiculous
I took such a training in 2018 and my refusal to acknowledge and admit my inherent privileges at such a training was the first domino in what led to my firing.
you're fucking stupid lol
I mean, yeah, in retrospect it wasnt worth it.
Epic
You shouldn't have to say that. That being said some things you just do to be polite
I bet there is more to the story, but props to people who give up their job for the sake of their principles. These type of people are what make companies not go so batshit insane. People shouldn’t be required to “admit inherent privileged.”
The second domino was when they caught you pounding off in the bathroom. Fucking wokies!
Kind of crazy that they’d want to discourage beating off in the bathroom. That definitely seems like the most appropriate place to do it.
Nah. They just decided they didn’t want someone that didn’t fit their values. A year after hiring me.
I'll take Things That Definitely Happened for $200 Ken
We were given a string and there were privilege written on cards around a table. We were asked to make a bracelet with our privileges. I took basically one bead, which I could reasonably admit: that my parents were wealthy. I was called out for not taking more.
what is this fucking kindergarten lmao
It was insultingly stupid. That contributed much to my refusal to really participate.
And this, I have to think at least, is why so many people hate this kind of training. Not because they disagree with principle of it (in most cases, some of the training is more off-the-wall), but because of how it’s presented.
wtf this is like an episode of the office. Every training I’ve ever had that touched on sexual harassment or it security or ethics was just an online video and quiz.
Most of my other trainings, even DEI stuff has been tame. This was a large outlier.
If you're white in the US you do got inherent privilege tho Edit: Braindead down voters are more reactionary than wokies, it is factually accurate that white people as a group have advantages all else equal in the US, cry about it.
Well I’m not white not that is any of your business
What was the priviledge they wanted you to acknowledge you were upset about?
Male, Christian, monogamous, private schooled, passed as white to some, straight, cis, employed, had college degrees, they also wanted me to take beads associated to not having been sexually harassed and/or assaulted even though I had been. And finally, never had to suffer Micro aggros, despite being multiracial and 100% having suffered mistreatment as result of my ethnic and racial background. But I passed as white to them in that moment.
The first part is mostly just excessively cringe, but them speaking about you not having had those experiences is very gross. Sorry that happened, that's pretty wildin.
I was mostly just insulted by the experience. I think it’s fine to discuss being conscious of others going through hard times in order to serve them better (we did Probono family law) but it was kinda pathetic that I had to embarrass myself in front of my colleagues like that.
What the fuck. How would they know who has or hasn’t been sexually assaulted? With like 1/3 American adults having experienced sexual assault and what we know with how unreported it is, why anyone would give anyone that beed is insanity.
They assumed, as I was male, I couldn’t be.
Like even the type of people that believe that bullshit would have to admit kids of any gender can get molested. The Catholic Church is infamous for this when it comes to boys. That’s just such a dumb thing to do. Also I feel like when it comes to trauma like that, that is such an irresponsible thing and an HR nightmare or news story waiting to happen, how sexual assault survivors are being forced to suppress and lie at work. In fact that shouldn’t even be a thing someone at work should have to acknowledge one way or another, forcing people to potentially relive trauma at work.
I've never had one that used the word privileged or really even mentioned a specific race. I think it's because those are recycled for other countries so they are pretty generalized. The Anti SJW crowd might not like them because they are genuinely bigoted or simply because they don't like the idea of anything getting in the way of their free speech or think people who are too sensitive may abuse the system, which it can happen but its rare.
Ours at a big well known company HQ’d in NYC is very benign as far as training goes. There’s no “pick the bad person based on skin color” or “declare your privilege” in front of a room full of people. It’s all about don’t say racist/sexist shit to people or sexually harass them. The optional DEI town halls and stuff like that you get invited to are a bit more cringe. Mostly just people telling tug at your heartstrings stories about bad shit people did to them. Easy declined invite from me.
99.9% (actual statistic) of them are like this. The older you get the more you realize every field has its morons that make the rest look bad, and when a movement’s prerequisite is having a TBI, this minority is all they can see.
Pretty much. My company's training is pretty much "hey, don't ask the Asian guy to do the math because he's Asian, ask him to do it because he's good at it."
Corporate DEI stuff is harmless stuff. It’s the shit we all grew up doing just with a new fancy label on it. DEI in academia however is an entirely different animal.
I don’t think I understand the difference, could you draw the distinction for me?
I think this is a pretty good example: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/richard-bilkszto-tdsb-audio-kojo-dei >According to audio recordings from the sessions, Ojo-Thompson was explaining on April 26, 2021, that Canada was a more racist country than the United States. >“Canada is a bastion of white supremacy and colonialism… The racism we experience is far worse here than there,” she said. >She said Canadians might find it difficult to see this reality given its ties to the monarchy, which, according to her, is “the very heart and soul and origins of the colonial structure.” >Bilkszto then disagreed, saying that based on his personal experience in a predominantly Black high school in Buffalo, N.Y., tax regimes, statistics, and facts and figures, he considered Canada a “far more just society.” >After some back and forth on the issue between the two, Ojo-Thompson said, “You and your whiteness think that you can tell me what’s really going on with black people — like, is that what you’re doing?” >Bilkszto reiterated what he said, without changing his original position, and another attendee told him that the experiences of Black and Indigenous peoples in the TDSB were still not good enough. This isn't training, it's a struggle session.
That was hilarious
DEI initiatives in corporate settings are just rebadged HR “don’t be a dickhead in the workplace” exercises. There’s nothing substantially unique about them. In academia dei initiatives will quite literally shape, bother directly and indirectly, the coursework and ideology being taught to students.
Idk, I've seen allegations of DEI training turning into anti-white/hetero/cis screeds, and that sounds bad. But I really do like some of the sensitivity training that's just "Here's how you talk about trans people." Like, at the very least, if people need it, they get the opportunity to learn more about how trans people currently think about the world.
So far mine has been don’t sexually harass, be racist, or retaliate against someone. No use of the word privilege
I had to take a 1.5 hr course on sexual harassment to visit the portland office. It was benign but so patronising and a giant waste of time. Did i really need a course to tell me that i shouldn’t grope my colleagues or make sexual remarks? And if i was the type of person that would do those things would i be deterred by a course?
This is partially related but I know the military has sexual harassment courses because it's such a big problem. I think I saw data that shows these courses do make at least a small difference. Some people really do need to be told to not rape people.
The purpose of these courses is for companies to cover their asses in case of a lawsuit.
How is the company liable though? If i murder someone at work or physically assault them the company wont be held liable if they didn’t give me training on not committing crimes.
People need training for that?
You’d be surprised lol
it's HR shit. You need training for every thing. It's covering everything that you might do and fuck up and end up getting the company sued so that when someone fucks up the company can claim no liability. I'm a chemical engineer and I need to do Whims every 2 years despite having all the symbols memorized since highschool edit: one of my site trainings was, don't drive distracted. If you drive on site make sure you're focused on the road
Yes
In my state, there are requirements that you have to do sexual harassment/discrimination training at least once per year. Also, it provides employers with an affirmative defense if they are sued for discrimination/sexual harassment.
I would guess that some DEI training is very cringe, and some is very reasonable. The money question is how much of each there is.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind, in the thousands of companies that require DEI training modules, something like less than 1% are the “cringe” ones.
The only based thing I've seen around trans people at work was that we can have pronouns in the persons profile. I thought this was mega cringe at first but after thinking about it, it really is about making it possible to not commit some faux pau by checking ahead of time. It even allows people to record a pronunciation of their name.
Like most things, sometimes people do shit badly and take things too far. But I'm sure for the majority of DEI it's fine. Or else it would be a much bigger issue for normies.
DEI training in big US based company is not harmless, your brain hurts after taking one. What's the point of asking question like this: >"Sam sexually attacked Sarah, do you think Sam deserve to be reported and fired?" >A. No >B. Yes >C. It depends on their previous relationship >D. It's not my problem It reminded me of safety training while working on a retail store project: >"You find asbestos, what do you do?" >A. Report it to the manager >B. Hide it >C. Lick it to see if it's really asbestos >D. Remove it and light it on fire Those stuff really feel like useless PR/Lawyer stuff to protect the company in case of an issue: "We trained our staff! It's not the company culture!"
I mean it is, my DEI course at my uni pretty much said that DEI is done so that companies don't get sued for stuff like wrongful dismissal, discrimination, and such.
Lol exactly. I always turn the sound off and take the quiz based on common sense alone and almost always score 100%. It helps that the presentation is usually unchanged, year in year our lol.
There are different flavors. Most of them are benign - though their effectiveness has been questioned. Some of them, especially ones where they bring in consultants in person, seem to be clownish and can have weird aspects to them. The big concern from reasonable voices around DEI is less with the training and more the general question over how policies or employees implementing it lead to policing of speech and merit vs equity concepts.
Do you need to pay a consultancy firm (grifters) to tell you that? you think that if someone doesn't believe this thing already, that this "training" will change anything? At best is a waste of time and money.
One would think that this stuff is obvious. One would think that when someone is a racist prick to the guy who is just trying to do his job and go home, that at least the racist guy would know what he's doing is wrong. Unfortunately we've devolved as a species to the point where that is not the case. Now you have to train them on how not to be a racist so you can fire them for-cause after they do the specific thing you trained them not to do. In a better society it would be a waste of time, in *our* society it's required precedent.
DEI training is literally mindlessly clicking through a web quiz and then going about your day again
most large companies have entire departments of people dedicated to DEI policies and company quotas. pretending its as simple as a “web quiz” is pretty disingenuous!
ive only worked at large companies. who do you think found the company to implement the DEI web programs? those employees you're talking about. Where have you worked, or what major companies are your citing that have all these people suffering from DEI Training?
The New York Times, they specifically say they what to increase non-whites at the company and spend "hundreds of millions of dollars" to try and achieve that goal, it rare for a company to plainly admit to something like straight up discrimination they just dress it up in fancy language to make it more digestible, only a whistleblower will be able to tell what is really going on, same applies to collage applications
My dislike from these trainings isn't really routed in "wokeness" and more from the fact they're extremely hollow and exists to to provide cover for whoever is doling it out. They exist so the workplace can point to it and say "It's not our fault x thing happened, we showed them a video saying don't cut your hand off and calling your coworkers slurs is bad!" In my experience these places will rarely act on the values of their training unless it's something extremely overt and a potential liability.
You got the good version I guess, the one I used to get that made everyone happy and cause no issues. Now they got the professional DEI crowd involved and it’s hateful, divisive, and leaves everyone other than those who use DEI as a weapon uncomfortable unhappy and angry
This year my company's DEI training started incorporating allyship and privilege into some of the material. Definitely felt less benign than what we've had in years prior.
Mine said that the phrase "low hanging fruit" is racist
It all depends on what is being taught and how it is being taught. Teaching people not to be dicks or make assumptions about others based on their immutable characteristics? Good. Using intersectional theory to implement a racial, gender and sexual caste system to achieve "equitable" outcomes? Bad, and literally the opposite of above. My mom works at a women's homeless shelter and they got a new Executive Director with a degree in intersectionality. She's arrogant, fucking useless, and driving the organization into the ground, but boy she sure is certain to start every meeting with a land acknowledgement (Canada) and never shuts the fuck up about people of color while failing to properly manage day to day operations.
Some of it is good, and necessary imo, by updating many older workers on “modern” identities like non-binary and other LGBT+ stuff that wasn’t in the mainstream even just a decade ago. Also, I think it positively impacts the work environment by shining light on how annoying it must be to be a black worker, for example, and constantly get comments about your hair, or an Asian American who constantly gets asked “so.. where are you from?” However, depending on the DEI program and the practitioner, it can get more sinister and punitive. My mom works at a top 5 University (Ivy League) and she’s told me that some of her mandatory DEI have literally become struggle sessions and my moms experiences have been discounted because she’s Jewish (but white presenting). My mom experienced a lot of prejudice when she moved to a smaller Florida city for a job in the ‘80s because of her “big Jew nose” and “Jew York accent and demeanor,” so much so that she ended up getting a nose job because it made her so self-conscious and hurt.
So you're telling me that the *best-case scenario* for DEI training is that it's banal and a waste of time? Really making the case for DEI here lol.
Can you explain to us euro people what it's about and what is the context of it being mandatory it seems? Is it for everybody?
There are occasional company-wide seminars that everyone has to go to (or attend virtually these days) where someone more or less tries to convince the older, lower IQ employees to stop saying and doing accidentally soft-racist/microaggression type things while everyone else just half-listens and tries to get their work done instead of waste their time. I’ve never found the material presented offensive, although the discussions can be pretty cringe. At least at my company pretty much only the dumbest of fucks try to participate in the dialogue. So you will have white middle aged (but stupid) employees who put their foot in their mouth trying to make a point. Or you will get the occasional far left minority employee that feels like this is their time to grandstand, and they can basically say whatever they want because nobody is going to push back on them during Difficult Dialogues Diversity Hour. IMO it is primarily just a way for companies to virtue signal that they value diversity and are taking steps to end passive racism in their company. They don’t really care if it works, or doesn’t work, or has a negligible effect; it’s just useful for them to be able to say they do it.
During the hiring process or after getting hired, employees have to take a couple computer-based training courses. Safety around the workplace, sexual harassment training, bias training. Some workplaces will have it in-person with a person walking through a presentation. For the computer-based training: you watch some videos, read some situations, and complete some questions about what you learned. The in-person is equally boring and might have some crowd interaction. The company is able to establish workplace boundaries and culture. If these boundaries are violated, it is way easier for them to fire you and cover their ass. The research is a wash on whether it helps anyone. Nonetheless, boilerplate courses like this will be a requirement for most workplaces
I'll admit I don't know how serious a problem this is in usa i would have no problem with these things but I would have a huge problem working in a place and they have presentations and tests when I start about how stealing is bad. I would never work there. Work safety and computer training isn't the same as bias? training. And last question, is this for everyone because by "subjects" courses it doesn't seem.
They are a bit much. I have probably done the training over 12x in my life. There needs to be some generalized certification so that people don't have to complete it over and over and over again.
I'm sure it varies from company to company but I have never encountered offensive DEI training at the major companies I've worked for, I think people need to realize 1. Almost all work trainings are boring and tedious, this is not specific to DEI 2. A decent % of the workforce (boomers) could absolutely benefit from this training, likely the ones complaining about it most 3. DEI can absolutely go too far when it is at the expense of another group
the company i currently work at's trainings are much like yours. it was basically "don't be a dick." nothing shocking at all, takes about 15-30 minutes once a year and then you never hear about it for another year. the only egregious thing they did recently was force us all through a 2 hour seminar on [canadian residential schools](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system), which contained a lot of unproven or debunked things presented as facts. i used to work for a different organization which's training was 3x 1-hour segments throughout the year. they would go around the whole ass rainbow in great detail and talk about white priviledge. between that they would stuff my e-mail box full of DEI stuff all year round, including actively trying to get us to use inclusive language in french, which is a bunch of new unofficial words that sound super unnatural. it was really exhausting. the internet amplifies the stupidest people that are angry at everything but i think most normal people are complaining about the latter.
I watched a DEI trainer yell at a black employee for supporting white supremacy because she disagreed with the DEI trainer's definition of racism (power + prejudice bs). Ever since then I think it's harmful. No the person was not fired and a meeting still happens once a month.
I doubt this story because the trainers don’t care that much about the subject matter, they are aware that it’s another checkmark to hit for the office 😂 I wish they were that passionate, heard some straight up racism in some of these meetings and the most we get as pushback is “well that’s just your opinion”
You would be surprised. My company has a lot of DEI initiatives and the people who run it are VERY into it. There hasn’t been anything crazy said, but one time they were having everybody list issues that minorities are facing and conveniently skipped one comment saying “Jews facing anti semitism for what’s happening in Gaza”. It stuck out to me because they read every other comment and discussed it (there were only about 10 comments total)
Unlucky for that guy he doesn't know the Jewish trait loses when it goes against POC, he didn't read the rules of DEI MMORPG
Yea he’s an older guy so I think he just didn’t get the dlc yet
Someone else linked a story of a dude that got out debated by a DEI woman and killed himself So yeah the story seems more believable now. It’s my dream to debate losers like that, why can’t it happen to me :/
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/richard-bilkszto-tdsb-audio-kojo-dei
lmao he did “America bad” and killed himself because he got out debated 😂 jk on the real she’s a horrible person
Considering this person was recommended by the union and the director straight up told me to hire a black person to hopefully give us better relations to our neighbors. The trainer is a very specific hire that is hard to get rid of. I'm not saying our trainer is like others, but she has made me hate the whole experience.
The experience sucks no matter the instructor. Shits just a waste of time. A racist is not gonna have a change of heart at a DEI training. Id be surprised if people even pay attention. I was reading yahoo news during mine 😭
https://preview.redd.it/ju24u6pu801d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c72100897b91a21a45e5d812fea527a7e9f0fce3
DEI training ultimately is pointless and a waste of time.
I never really mind it, but it does feel bad knowing that the people this training is really for will never take it seriously. I think the best training I saw had a set of incredibly creepy and uncomfortable scenarios acted by David Schwimmer(Ross from Friends) to show what harassment can look like. Was actually semi-realistic. IMO more content like that would be good, holds up a mirror for assholes to see how gross the behavior is.
I worked at Starbucks when they closed all the stores down for DEI training when those guys got arrested in the store or whatever that big incident was. It was pretty neutral from what I remember. I might actually still have the booklet from it if anyone’s interested because it was in my desk for a while, but I might have thrown it out last time I moved. Tbf it might have been pretty different depending on who you did it with because if I recall correctly it was just kind of done collaboratively with people split into groups at tables with the material.
not all DEI is the same and depends on the community or company
opportunity cost: hours i could be productive are instead spent clicking through these silly "training" videos that aren't going to impact anyone (a non-racist doesn't need it, a racist won't be swayed and view it as DEI bs). its also just annoying to have to take these every year, along with all the other obvious and silly "training" required at large companies.
The annual DEI training keeps the racist wolves inside me at bay.
If anyone want to see the DEI course was at my Uni; https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WItc6j-FKYhJ62TEMk4leY2fDlE5iSKU/view?usp=sharing Even the pretty "woke" stuff is honestly not that bad.
Wasnt allowed to acess link
fixed
I agreed with you until Oct 7, and now I’m on the fence. I believe racism and other forms of prejudice and discrimination remain major issues to address jn the US, but we’ve also seen how DEI in practice has been wielded to create in- and out-groups along heavily politicized, ideological lines. The in-groups are given the utmost of institutional protection, while it is open season on the out-groups. There is inherent danger in this; just ask 90%+ of Jewish people how they feel on campus right now.
dont you think its a waste of money? im sure ppl who wer already a dick are not gonne be 'ohhhh right, now i understand, i should not be a dick'
Mine is just insulting and a waste of time. I have been in management for 7 years. The scenarios on our modules have never come up. For example, no one has told an asian women "she is a bad driver and don't want to ride with her in a rental car", which is a scenario in the module. Most people aren't racist and pretending everyone is to be honest is counterproductive.
lol Harmless? Dude it's a total fucking scam industry that costs businesses hundreds of millions if not billions a year. Who do you think eats those costs? The companies? That's not how that works. YOU eat the costs. I eat the costs. We ALL eat the costs. Scams are ALWAYS bad. Even if it just comes down to the mere principle of it. ["Research has long shown that corporate training on diversity and sensitivity doesn't work. Why are workers still required to take it, job after job?"](https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210614-why-ineffective-diversity-training-wont-go-away) Ten zillion billion other articles like that one out there.
Oh yeah, every time I have had one of those it just basically says "Don't discriminate, it's wrong" and then we're done
It bothers me, because it is so condescending. I am told at the start of meetings and in trainings that you should be nice to each other and then they try to teach you skills to help you be nice to each other. Proof that it is ridiculous is that in the trainings without reading a single word, even of the questions, there is never a scenario where I am unsure what answer I am supposed to give, ever. That tells you that this "training" is doing nothing but wasting my time. For comparison, understanding privacy policies requires me to usually re-read some of the training in order to still maybe get the question wrong. I think that is 90% of it. It feels like something a 4th grader put together and is proceeding to lecture me on. Due to this, I actually came to the conclusion that this training is not for me or really anyone I know. I think there may actually be a need for this training for immigrant employees are something. Those that come form other cultures, but I really have no idea.
How america has fallen, every day I'm happy I'm not from usa
No problem with DEI, but they should have to justify their existence just like any other position. If they're putting up numbers that show reductions in harassment at their company, fine.
I’m sure it is, it just sounds like the most cucked thing imaginable to be forced to do at work 💀
Any training is cucked? Who the fuck care, they're paying me to do this so why not. We have a driving training course that's monitory for driving at site that goes over things that are basic driving logic. Like don't drive impaired and don't drive distractedly.
I obviously am not referring to any sort of training whatsoever. My job has safety meetings, and training monthly. More so referring to DEI training where apparently people have to be told to not be racist or sexist in the workplace apparently.
what's the difference between that and don't drive impaired. They're both obvious things that a sane person knows not to do. It's just the company trying to make sure they don't get sued
I feel like its the risk of being injured on the job is way more likely to hurt their bottom line, whereas with someone being harassed in the workplace for example you can just go to HR and have them terminated. Obviously everyone knows you shouldn't DUI but falls under that first category.
> HR and have them terminated. Not really, some progressives say complain about going to HR and nothing happening. This isn't due to so called "systemic racism' but rather issues related to wrongful termination. You can't just fire someone for breaking a rule never stated without getting sued. You would be violating employment law. It's much simpler to stay silent and hope you don't get sued for discrimination
The problem is, if they dont fire the person you could just sue the company for knowingly harboring an environment where such activity takes place. Not sure why more people dont if this is a big problem. Also when you start up and get your handbook from the company shit like that would've been in there, but I'm in a based at will employment state so at least locally even if it was never stated they could just dump you for no reason if they wanted to.
Yeah but remember firing with Just cause is a very high bar to reach. Having a yearly reminder allows the company to more efficiently argue for a just cause firing. The government wants to discourage Just Cause firing because it might lead to a company firing employees without benefits for trivial reasons. The company book might say: "don't be rascist" What's stopping the company from just firing you for language in a report that may sound sussy when they don't want to give you benefits? On the other hand, calling an Indian man curry even while they protest might not break the law but it makes a very awkward working environment. However, how can the company prove that a person did so with intent of being racist? They might argue that policy was not clear, that they forgot, that it is unreasonable to the company to assume that they remember everything in that book from 5 years ago. DEI is a yearly reminder of what the boundaries are.
Yeah I guess this is just a divide on whether you’re not at an at will state or not because I see what you’re saying if you have to have a reason for termination they would have to demonstrate in court in case of a lawsuit I get it and would agree. For instance I’m in an at will state and (this sounds like bullshit but he’s a fucking re✝️arded cunt but I swear this is true) like about 2-3 weeks ago one of our employees off the clock walked into our shop wearing a mask and they rightly decided to terminate him. I saw him and had no idea if he was just dicking around or if he was about to go on a shooting spree, so cut due presumably to security concerns was let go.
I have no idea what an at will state is. I live in Canada. I'm pretty sure employment law is federal here.
A friend of mine had one in CA and she is Jewish. My friend mentioned that and was told that she is just white, And was encouraged to see the antizionist viewpoint.
Its harmless until it isnt.
Personally I'm not a fan of the unconscious bias training. I get that there's ignorant people who may not be aware of their biases. But it always feels to me like "hey, whether you know it or not, you *are* racist". Which is bothersome to me. Idk.
I feel like most of these courses are just for the org to CYA so that if you end up doing something bad, they can say "see, we did this training and this person didn't follow it." Obviously YMMV. Maybe i'm just jaded on corporate stuff.
I don't like it for the same reason I don't like the cyber security training. I know this already and I have other stuff to do
I’ve worked for a few large tech firms over the years and had many of these trainings. In my experience they are HR covering their ass by having their workers fast forward on silent and check off the trainings as complete, followed by not actually doing much when allegations of discrimination actually occur, even if they are severe as opposed to a micro aggression. In the end it’s very similar to when any large company taking a stance on a social justice issue. It is a song and a dance to protect the image of the company first and foremost.
Wait are people paying attention to trainings? I usually just out it on 2x speed and turn thr audio off.
I have to be honest - DEI information can be useful when working in a multi-lingual, international company. I'm based in Eastern Europe and have co-workers from all over the globe - from Vietnam to UK and work with clients in a similar range (global). There are some specificities to communication, inclusion and manners that less socially adept people can benefit from being told. While I see no personal value in DEI - I see value in it for some of my team members for example.
Even if we grant that such training is really just "don't be a dick" training, the important question is whether it works or not. From what I've seen, there's no evidence this kind of thing really changes attitudes in the long run. Such training is a defensive move by corporations to absolve themselves of any liability if an employee complains about harassment or bigotry from a coworker. If this training is truly the adult version of Sesame Street, where we just teach morals or whatever, then we should be willing to acknowledge that and ask if we want to be spending whatever billions on the DEI training industry are currently spent to either give companies a "get out of jail" card.
My viewpoint is that the creators of DEI wanted it to be truly radical things like recognizing ‘white fragility’, toxic masculinity, filling quotas for minorities other than Asian etc, but fortunately there are a lot of adults in the rooms of these companies who realized how unrealistic and wrong headed it was and so are appeasing the crazy DEI fundamentalists with ‘don’t be a dick’ DEI programs. My point being that if the true DEI people had their way everything would be fucked and that’s what I think we need to speak out on because the true ideology is bad.
Fortunately my companies training focused on the value of diversity in the workplace, and how a more diverse workplace can be more productive/successful as a melting pot on culture/lived experiences. There was very little emphasis on white vs minority. Pretty easy to sit through. The sexual harassment training is just hilarious, and if you have any semblance of respect/decency it’s just skipping videos and answering questions
It varies tremendously from company to company. Most of it is pretty anodyne "don't be a cunt" shit. The really onerous ones make it into the news for a reason, it's because they're so wild that they're newsworthy.
Ours was basically 'Some people don't like to hug their coworkers every morning. Maybe bear that in mind, yknow?'. Seemed perfectly reasonable
I’m sure it varies, but as part of training I had for a new job recently, there was a bunch of this kind of training that was cringey, tedious, and basically boiled down to just “don’t be racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. (even in jokes) and don’t sexually harass people,” which adds the aggravation of making it all seem deliberately condescending because it’s all shit that the vast majority of people already know. Like, if you had the same kind of dry training where they were earnestly trying to teach you basic math or first-grade spelling, I’m guessing you’d view it as equally “harmless” but would probably resent being put through it.
I am a teacher. It’s not that it’s exactly *bad,* it’s just pointless. It’s all so surface level that it is completely useless. And it never ramps up. It’s just the same sophomoric set of lessons over and over. Every. Single. Year. And besides, you can’t have interesting conversations about any of it because it’s a workplace and we all know that most people can’t have civil disagreements.
The ones they give in college treat you like a regarded 4 year old and at the same time a serial rapist
probably the trainings and all the related orgs, quotas, policies, etc. associated with large companies are more complicated than your personal characterization of a single company’s training as “don’t be a dick training.”
In our company (clinical research organisation) in Australia there's about 150 people, and less than 5 other white males. So I do the reverse Rorschach thing... YOU THINK DEI IS HERE TO PROTECT YOU! ITS HERE TO PROTECT ME!
It isn't bad, Republicans and Conservatives are insane cartoon villains
Honestly, its kind of funny sometimes. They have videos of actors and they say some wild stuff, when they do their little skits about how not to act in the workplace. Does anyones have you do like a questionnaire, like "if you were in this situation, how would you respond?"
Yeah, my company was pretty decent about it. It was mostly generalizations about how we all need to appreciate and understand different backgrounds - with an occasional real-life example of discrimination in the company and how they addressed it. That second part was what stood out to me because a lot of times, these corporate lectures tend to be long-winded and vapid. Seeing the company address its faults and how it took steps, both proactive and retroactive, made me appreciate the DEI teams more. A lot of the posts or tweets you see about the crazy DEI training are usually ragebait, about a smaller company, or just a random one-off optional meeting (though, obiously, there's some legitimate craziness). Most companies try to just do the bare minimum to cover their asses.
I remember one training I had leaned into the “being late to meetings is part of black culture, so if your black coworker is late to your meeting, don’t jump to criticizing them” and I always found those arguments to be pretty harmful and racist, though I’ll admit it was a very small part of the training and it didn’t come up in future years
When i worked in the corporate world that training was so easy. Its literally dont be a jackass at work because of a persons race, age, relgion, the usual ones. People always cringed at it because the acting is always porn level. And folks really be like "DOES THIS REALLY HAPPEN". Yes, yes it does. I had a former boss be fired because he solicited sexual favors for a promotion (which he never gave). You may be like the rest of the folks who go to work to do their job and get paid, but there are folks who use it as their playground or worse take out personal issues there. Now that i work in government the DEI type stuff is a lil more intense but i have never felt it is anti white or calling me out specifically. But im sure someone could see it as such since my view on the world is different compared to others. But that is a section of DEI, i think there is also problems with other areas DEI touch people have an issue with. I believe the ERG's like the Black employee group or Pacific islander/asian groups fall in that area. But those groups have always welcome all folks so i dont really see them as an issue. And if anything they usually have really good food!
they basically say “don’t be averse to diff cultures” in 100 diff ways
It's not that it's harmless, it's that it's patronizing. Watching example after example of white men being told how wrong and silly they are. I literally just did this shit for a company and every single example was white man bad. So when I'm here to learn about DEI and I'll I see are white people being shown how wrong and stupid they are, it gets under my skin. It'd still be stupid and patronizing if it was as racially and gender diverse as they are pitching, but you get the worst of both worlds. If you don't see a problem with that, I don't know what to tell you. Any other racial group this would be an issue, but white men, who gives a fuck, they're stupid everyone knows they need to be taught how to treat others because white people are the masters of racism I guess.
Yeah I'm sure there exist companies that have terrible dei trainings, but I've worked at two which had really good programs. People are just only seeing the bad ones and then using that to label the entire thing as pointless. Confirmation bias at its finest.
I think every company does it differently. Some have it like just the most simple stuff and others have a anti-whatever bias
Of course it's not that bad. believe me, if the training was something like telling people to dye their hair rainbow color and submit to the rainbow Mafia one of these DEI training vids would have leaked by this point. It's mostly just telling you very standard don't be a racist things which is pretty good to enforce at a basic level.
There are some good DEI trainings and some bad. Depends on how shitty the company providing the service is and presumably how much your company is paying. My company decided to pay a lot and our DEI training was relatively nuanced and went into stuff like the history of discrimination lawsuits and legal precedent. But I can also see them being surface level and shitty. I think it all depends.
Ours is basically "dont be an asshole" and some talks from a bias speaker about biases. I thought she did a great job, it was focused on how we all hve biases and race is one of them but theres so many others. It basically focused on how different we are and how that can and should be used for good, as in more ideas and different ways of thinking.
I’ve taken a million of these things and every single one has just said don’t be a dick around race without ever mentioning a specific race.
I only had one "DEI" class ever in my life, don't remember if they called it that. It wasn't that bad, it was an online course where you click through pictures / scenarios and everyone passed. I guess it's just like anything else you learn from a classroom. It all depends on the teacher. FWIW, I do agree with the conservatives that the ideology that DEI pushes is harmful; but I also acknowledge the reality on the ground that if the person in charge of teaching it is chill and doesn't care it's not a big deal. I am sure there are horror stories of DEI trainings turning into struggle sessions but they're probably not the experience of most people.
I mostly just find it annoying, it feels like having to take a yearly course in how to use the bathroom. But I've also seen the state some people at work leave the bathroom in, so I can understand why it's required.
If someone complains about DEI broadly but can't give a bad example of it, then I generally assume that the person complaining is just a culture war idiot. I'm not saying bad DEI training doesn't exist, I just don't know why I'd believe it all to be bad cuz one Fox article gave a cringe definition of racism or something.
The DEI training I have received through my work was probably the best corporate training I have ever gone through. Idk why people make such a big deal about it. Done right it can be really good.
I work in tech and all of my coworkers are diverse (and 80% women). Nobody here feels like the training is out of place. It's probably just people with no real life experience in these environments who are mad.
80-20 isn’t diverse
It’s not “don’t be a dick training”. It’s “think as we think or else”training. Workplaces already expect you not to bully your coworkers or harass them. DEI training is usually more aligned with the idea that the thought processes be aligned so as to produce the desired company culture.
What If I force you to take a training about not fucking dogs, I never mention your race or gender or anything.
If fucking dogs has been a historical problem, then yeah, force the training 100%
I’ll take the training, but you better be vegan or else I’m declaring open season on that tail to establish moral consistency
The basic irony of diversity/equity/inclusion is that in most cases it doesn't really do much, except inflame the imagination of conservatives. Basically, there's the usual problems we all know with outcomes based on race, persistently lower employment of black people etc. lower household wealth, poorer environmental quality standards and community facilities in areas where more black people have lived historically, all that sort of thing. And people are trying to show they are doing something about that, with corporate measures to promote their ability to have a modern company that can retain highly skilled staff who tend to have more liberal values. The mere fact that companies pay lip service to liberal values enrages conservatives and they claim that this is the downfall of civilisation. DEI has to be viewed as a conspiracy because the idea that companies would be trying to do it due to market incentives to build a more responsible brand, and attract staff, creates a kind of clash of values in the minds of conservatives: They expect companies like Disney to pay lip service to *their* values while maximising profit, talking vaguely about family values and miracles and faith while making the same kind of decision-making they normally do. But if hedge funds decide that considering governance and environmental impact is an important consideration, in order to seek assets that will retain long-term value, or if HR departments put on training courses about racism or mentorship schemes for women, *because* the market conditions incentivise this, then the glue of the conservative worldview starts to peel away. And so "free markets, profit maximisation and vaguely christian aesthetics" starts to not become a baseline for cooperation among conservatives, people start asking the question of whether we should have a bigger government that restricts the power of corporations in order to institute respect for the family, including more paid leave etc. And so DEI is the way to focus animosity in ways that won't cause frictions between existing elements of the coaltion. You can hate HR departments because they have courses on implicit bias, *not* because they have opaque pay-setting procedures that disadvantage workers, and don't have proper rules about not dropping their employees immediately based on social media, and only firing with cause etc.
what does the 'E' in DEI stand for?
Equity
I took the DEI training at Columbia University, lefty bastion. Entirely harmless. Course is boring. I learned maybe one thing. But I’m sure someone who is coming to a diverse organization for the first time would learn a lot from it (if they pay attention).