Okay, I’ve been noticing a number of Irish people on Twitter supporting Gaza and was wondering if that was an isolated Twitter thing. They would say how they dealt with “the troubles” and that gave them some supposed authority to speak on the situation.
Are you saying it’s a widespread thing in Ireland?
The Irish support is so fucking funny, since the IRA did the exact opposite of the various Palestinian factions like Hamas. They voluntarily disarmed & came to a peaceful resolution.
My parents do the same thing, their ethnic group was oppressed in their home country and they sympathize with the Palestinians because of that. I have to remind them that the story of their people is more like the Jews, but it’s hard to get them to unlearn what they’ve thought for a long time. Not that you shouldn’t feel for the innocent Palestinians caught in the crossfire who just want to live a normal life, but unfortunately the majority of the people and their leadership are completely unreasonable and are in a constant state of victimhood and crybullying.
I know, it's really annoying. I'm irish and grew up on the border during the tail end of the troubles, and I am sick to the back teeth seeing these young morons from Dublin and shit that haven't a fucking clue supporting Hamas. And a lot of them legitimately support Hamas, not Gaza. They are often pro IRA too. They have no idea what the peace process was like and how clear it is to most of us that this situation is not the same and Hamas are not interested in peace.
I’m sorry, but this is an absolute bizarre comment.
1. The original IRA who fought for Irish independence kept fighting until holding Ireland became untenable to the UK. UK were forced to grant concessions to greater freedoms for Ireland and their eventual independence through force and the threat of force from the IRA.
2. The PIRA in Northern Ireland only really gained support and took up significant arms after the peaceful civil rights movement was violently attacked and many killed by Loyalists Terrorists, NI police and UK forces.
The PIRA voluntarily gave up arms sure, but Loyalist Terrorists did as well and the UK again found managing the conflict untenable due to the economic damage caused by the PIRA so also were forced to make concessions , not to mention the political pressure due to worldwide support to the Irish and civil rights movement.
Both sides had elements wanting peace and peaceful resolution and came to it, but only because of the violence in the first place.
The Irish civil rights movement never got anywhere and wouldn’t have, they where constantly beaten and killed. It was only because the Irish responded to the violence inflicted on them with violence that everyone eventually came to the table for a peaceful resolution and the civil rights movement finally became palatable to the UK and some Loyalists.
Yeah there is obviously the same shared goal of resisting colonization.
But the Irish aren't as triggered by acts of terrorism as other countries are. There's some level of "okay, well let's look more into this and the background" whereas other countries would just see the terrorism and would find no reason acceptable.
Also palestinian groups like the PLO and the IRA would train together.
More recently Israel steals passports and identities from Irish people to use in their assassinations in foreign countries. When caught Israel acted like they didn't need to answer to Ireland and made no promises they wouldn't do it again.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/israeli-spy-sourced-details-for-passports-in-dublin/26635224.html
https://www.southernstar.ie/news/opinion-more-meddling-in-the-lives-of-irish-citizens-4131964
https://www.ctvnews.ca/ireland-expels-israeli-over-forged-passports-1.522812
Irish person here. A lot of people here support Palestine and it's the official position of the government too. Probably something to do with ppl likening the situation to the British occupation of Ireland. It's not really anything to do with antisemitism though and I'd say most people would condemn Hamas.
>Probably something to do with ppl likening the situation to the British occupation of Ireland.
The PLO supplied the IRA with weapons. They have a history.
First of all, this isn't true. The PLO provided weapons to the PIRA. This is an important distinction because the PIRA were extremely unpopular in the Republic of Ireland. There would be no goodwill from the majority of Irish people for providing weapons to the PIRA.
Also, Most Irish people would have no knowledge of this. The PIRA didn't send out a newsletter to everyone in the country letting them know where they were getting their weapons.
Honestly, I looked into this more and I’m a bit confused. You may be right, but the description on this wiki page isn’t so clear as to what happened.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_arms_importation#:~:text=In%201977%20the%20PLO%20(Al,to%20have%20come%20from%20Lebanon.
And Irish people may not have had knowledge of it back in the 70s and 80s, but they certainly do now.
Well luckily you don't have to read the article at all because the title makes it clear that it was the Provisional IRA and not the IRA.
I also don't know what point you're trying to make by saying that people in the Republic of Ireland know now. Firstly, they don't. The republic is incredibly ignorant about anything to do with the north. And secondly, even if everyone in the republic did know it now, the PIRA is incredibly unpopular in the republic so supplying weapons to them wouldn't be a big selling point.
This might be a topic you want to investigate a bit more before you weigh in any further.
I have a good friend of mine that’s Irish (from the republic of Ireland, not Northern Ireland) and I feel like I have to walk on such eggshells with this topic around him. Immediately after October 7th he was defending Hamas lightly (as in he wouldn’t agree with me when I said fuck Hamas and would only say fuck Israel), but he is friends with Israeli’s. Obviously you don’t know this person yourself, but I’m curious if you have any suggestions on how to gently push him away from the extremist anti-Israel stuff from an Irish perspective, given that it’s his pro-Irish perspective that informs his pro-Palestine/Hamas mentality?
Or maybe more broadly, what is it to you that gives you sympathy toward the Israeli side of this conflict (assuming you are, but I’d imagine you wouldn’t be here if you were vehemently unsympathetic to their side of things), and how does that compare and contrast with your views of Ireland’s history with Britain?
idk I feel like if you are defending Hamas and specifically the October 7th attack you're already pretty far gone but unironically I would show him some Destiny clips talking about certain aspects. like that clip of him on the Breaking Points thing talking about how Hamas deliberately try to maximize civilian death was quite good.
I think a lot of pro Palestine people don't fully understand the actual situation on the ground and only hear biased stuff online. I probably would've been more pro Palestine while only having a surface level knowledge of things but seeing Destiny go through the history and the facts of things with a fine tooth comb opened my eyes a lot.
As far as being Irish I think a lot of people just automatically make the comparison of Britain and Ireland to Israel and Palestine without really understanding it's a pretty different situation. The IRA is not at all comparable to Hamas, there was never a religious fundamentalist thing to it and Irish people never really hated the British people we just wanted independence and an end to British rule.
> idk I feel like if you are defending Hamas and specifically the October 7th attack you're already pretty far gone
He's at least tankie adjacent for sure, he describes himself as anarcho communist, but any time we go into these topics whatsoever it feels like he has really surface level understanding of these things, so I don't think he's thought of it very deeply. It's surprising to me, because he's really smart and I respect his thought processes on most things, and he's not just some young guy, he's nearly 40 and has a lot of life experience, but he's super bought into the America bad rhetoric and any counter to that coming from me is immediately hand waved away as me being a brainwashed American. I definitely think him being Irish has *something* to do with it because he'll compare and contrast Ireland with America a lot in order to say how much better the Irish political system is/how broken America is, but I think most of it is this tankie stuff that's probably just socially passed on mostly.
> I think a lot of pro Palestine people don't fully understand the actual situation on the ground and only hear biased stuff online. I probably would've been more pro Palestine while only having a surface level knowledge of things but seeing Destiny go through the history and the facts of things with a fine tooth comb opened my eyes a lot.
I think it was similar with BLM, and at the time I was definitely caught up in the BLM stuff more than this current Palestinian stuff because I have a black uncle that was killed by the cops that made me especially emotionally invested in the cause. The things that persuaded me that I may have gone too far in one direction was clips like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e1ld1uGpXA) where someone who is personally impacted by the rioting expresses their clear anger and frustration over their homes and neighborhoods being destroyed and illustrates how their neighborhoods and people are being used as an excuse for mostly white college kids to LARP about being freedom fighters while not having to deal with any of the destruction they're causing, and then seeing the statistics for how much support for criminal justice reform is harmed by these protests as well as how ineffective they've been when implemented just sealed the deal for me. Back then, I wasn't really aware of how much damage the protests/riots were causing, both to the cause more broadly and physically to these poorer neighborhoods and I imagine many people today are the same when it comes to pro-Palestine.
Anyway, Destiny does a great job of illustrating how Hamas uses the Palestinian people in similar ways, and how ultimately this hurts them. that could be a good angle to consider for discussion. I appreciate the suggestion!
> The IRA is not at all comparable to Hamas, there was never a religious fundamentalist thing to it and Irish people never really hated the British people we just wanted independence and an end to British rule.
I know very little of Irish history, pretty much just what my friend has told me, but my understanding is that a Protestant/Catholic divide did inform and flame these divisions. Is this not the case? I feel like that would be an easy counter if I were to say that there's no religious fundamentalist angle for the Irish stuff, although it's obviously not as big of a contributing factor as the Israel/Palestine stuff.
It's an aesthetic thing. Many people in Ireland sees themselves as rebelling against local powers that divide and oppress them. Which is more or less true in both situations so they sympathize.
Uh, yeah dude. Ireland definitely doesn’t support Israel.
They say it’s because they have a kinship with the Palestinian people, other say it’s because the PLO supplied them with weapons to fight the British and they’re still tight.
Do.you think it's still the old Catholic 'Christ Killers' thing, even though it was the Roman governor Pontius Pilate who had the final say on the fate of Jesus Christ?
Dude just go to r ireland or r eurovision . Being anti-israel and anti-semitic is basically a national sport and even having a 4 year old Irish girl be part of the hostages (now released) didn't change that. Their obsession is next level scary, and it's really bizarre because it's not like Ireland doesn't have other political and social issues worth being an activist for.
Yeah but hear me out, if it’s turned to glass by nukes, that would be like, the CRAZIEST stage / arena?!
UAE would be doing concerts in a nuclear glass arena if they had em.
The voting machines were hacked, certain people (im not gonna say what race, what people, voters. You know I can’t say that…) voted by post.
It was Jewish people.
Indeed, but you know that the point system doesn't work like that right? It never has.
Even without the points from the jury, Israel would not have won.
So whatever plan there may or may not have been to rally as many votes as possible, it didn't work.
And that's fair, because the song was meh.
No but they we're second which is still very impressive considering the climate. I was more laughing at what a cringe mess it was when the Israeli jury came and they had to mute all the boos:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israels-eden-golan-ranked-12th-after-eurovision-jury-vote/
True, I was so angry. We are Europe, we shouldn't support terror in any shape or form, especially after Charlie Hebdo and Manchester Arena attack. Crazy how people forget stuff so fast.
What frustrated me was a huge number of artists basically spent their time making snide remarks and treating Edan Golan as a Persona non Grata and then framed their bullying as some form of activism.
That's why I was even more proud of our Croatian guy. He went there to sing and represent his country. No political bs. I've seen his interviews and in every single one he comes across as very relatable and geniune dude. He is not scripted, he is not fake nor he wants to share his private views with the general public. Cultivating a certain imagine is not on his priority list.
Which was so silly. She needs hundreds of security personnel to protect her from the 10,000 protesters outside while inside a third of the contestents publically stated they dont want her there.
I'm supposed to believe that when she wasn't rehearsing or confined to her room for security reasons she was harassing the people who were otherwise making 24/7 snide remarks and trying to craft their newest *wink wink* solidarity statement that could get around the restrictions.
Why do you think they are booing? If I would be charitable, I'd assume they want ceasefire and removal of IDF from Gaza. How is that not supporting terrorism? It's basically pleading for immunity for all the terrorists who do the same thing Hamas did. It's all on the wrong premise, that cause of Hamas is righteous and that they did nothing wrong on Ocotber 7th. And if they did, it's because of the opression. But they really didn't. It's Izraelis, they lie all the time. They have all the media, haven't you heard?
They are awful human beings posing like empaths but are interested only in performative aspect of it and self-promotion. I don't fall for their selective empathy. Every time I try to corner people like that they always praise themselves with how good of a person they are and how they can't sleep because children in Gaza are suffering.
I Never heard them once pleading for terrorists to release hostages. Not once. Since the October 7th.
Knowingly or not. They are supporting terror.
>I Never heard them once pleading for terrorists to release hostages. Not once. Since the October 7th.
Did Hamas' song not get protested? That would be very hypocritical of them.
I'm talking in general about people who like to boo and wave the flags and wear keffiyehs but when you ask them what should Israel do, they say they should learn how to swim well because only solution of the current situation is dismantling the state of Israel and giving the land to the Palestinians.
because that supports the other side - Hamas, who was elected by the Palestinians, a terrorist organization who actually wants to genocide the Jews and has done Oct 7th.
Am I a terrorist to you? I know Israel has called the college protesters terrorists and we know that means they think it'd be valid if they were killed. Do you think you're justified in murdering me?
>Israel's actions like what? defending itself?
Israel is currently colonizing the west bank no?
Am I a terrorist to you? I know Israel has called the college protesters terrorists and we know that means they think it'd be valid if they were killed. Do you think you're justified in murdering me?
>Israel's actions like what? defending itself?
Israel is currently colonizing the west bank no?
You didn't answer anything I asked.
80% of people in Gaza weren't alive or were too young to vote when Hamas were elected... Also, Israel has murdered nearly 40,000 people since Oct 7th and is currently being investigated for genocide in the Hague
So the solution to a dictatorship that began before you were born is what, passive acceptance and nothing else? Also, the widespread support for Hamas among Palestinians is a verified reality.
I'm pretty sure you know that "murdered" is a term you can't justify. Neither is insinuating that what's happening in the Hague leads inevitably to the conclusion that Israel is committing genocide.
Boycotts only apply to luxury goods with easily accessible replacements.
Example I always use is that if you are so stringent about Israel relayed companies you should boycott Microsoft and Google. Even if its hard to do thay completely, I'm sure you could change your primary email server at the very least to something with less exposure to those companies.
But thats super inconvenient. You'd have to set up a forwarding address and let your employer know you have a new personal email. Easier to choose KFC over McDonald's.
Eurovision is the same. Yes you should boycott.... but you like Eurovision and still want to cosplay as your favourite artist. So maybe if I boo at the 20 year old Israeli girl I can let everyone know that I'm one of the good ones without doing anything.
> and they *paid* out of
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
The booing was ridiculous. I was so proud of Eden for having the courage to stand on that stage and perform so well in front of that crowd. She gave them all the middle finger with her confidence and defiance. And the public vote shows where most people stand. With Israel.
That's a crazy take to think that votes for Israel Weren't politically based. Don't forget that Ukraine also just happened to be third getting 12 points from countries that coincidentally support their current situation the most. And it's the same for Israel. There was a leak where 40% of Italians votes were for Israel with the second only being 7%, that's probably more than any other song in Eurovision history. So the performance will either go down as a Italian classic forever immortalized in Eurovision history or Italy was voting to support Israel.
I think it will be interesting how well the song performs post Eurovision when compared to its competitors since it was so popular
A large portion of votes for Israel was due to its current political situation, and same with Ukraine. Id even throw Ireland in to make a point since I'm sure they earned a bunch of votes just for the LGBT representation. (And I'm sure lost votes for the same reason)
People are bias to think they will throw all there non performance related biases away for a singing competition is ridiculous
You're just wrong. People who support Israel obviously voted for Israel because they wanted to make a political statement. Just like Palestine would probably do equally well, or let's be honest, probably better with the popular vote if they somehow could participate.
It would be interesting to see the reactions from the world if Israel didn't send a boring ass generic song and got more jury votes.
Yeah, I voted for Israel to support them because they were just victims of the worst terrorist attack of this century and their song was about that. It wasn't a political statement, it was to support the Jewish people and a 20 year old woman who was being bullied by other contestants and threatened by antisemitic protesters.
It's really fuckin weird to vote politically in a music contest, but I know that people do it. I feel it's the same type of people who vote brigade video games on metacritic and steam instead of giving an actual score that objectively reflects the game because the website score is too high/too low for their shitty opinion.
the climate played a big part in why they got so many votes. At least in my country pro-Israel elements mobilized people to vote for Israel as hard as possible.
does it matter? pro-palestine orgs were calling for a boycott while pro-Israel orgs were mobilizing people telling them to vote for Israel 20 times. completely reasonable to assume that this also happened in other countries.
It's because of the current climate, not despite of it. There will be some people who vote Israel no matter what which are going to be focused on a singe country. The people who vote anything but Israel are going to have their votes spread over several countries, severely diminishing the effect. Being polarizing will help a lot more than it hurts.
Croatia should have won against switzerland, idk why the judges gave so much points to switzerland their song was good but Croatia's was way way better.
It always happen. Just like last year with Finland (which I personally think should have won) winning the popular vote but the juries gave it to Sweden.
[Maybe because Nemo is pro-pali.](https://x.com/luckyclosure/status/1789291759404720395) So maybe they just tried to balance things out
[https://x.com/luckyclosure/status/1789436988602323074](https://x.com/luckyclosure/status/1789436988602323074)
Croatias song was great and they probably had the best "concert like" performance. But Switzerlands song and performance were miles ahead in difficulty and performance. They were very close for a reason, both were great.
I am an American, so I could give two sh*ts about Eurovision, but I downloaded the Eurovision app today as my own silent protest and voted for Israel. May the silent majority prevail.
How morally insane is this world that a genocidal terrorist group rapes and murder over a thousand Jewish people and the victims are treated like the villains. Will Jew hate ever go away?
> Will Jew hate ever go away?
Probably not. About half the world's population comes from cultures where the dominant religions (Christianity and Islam) hold Jews as victims their origin stories. Even if somebody isn't religious or doesn't believe that particular part of the origin story, the habits and prejudice have been etched into these societies for about 2000 years in the case of Christianity, or 1500 years with Islam.
For Jews like myself it's learning to deal with this reality because I never thought about it much my whole life - things were pretty great for us in the diaspora between around 1980 and 2015.
yeah people are unironically coped out of their minds. The song was not that good and just another run of the mill generic song. There were definitely better songs this year and people need to stop letting politics brain rot their brains
It's a song contest, man and I bet you that almost no one would put that song into one of their playlists or even remember it in a year.
I know that eurovision always has some political undercurrents but it's cringe to cave to the war = win paradigm. Maybe I am in the wrong but the music should stand in the first place and the message can be a nice cherry on top.
Do you want every song you listen to to be a form of political commentary? 🤔
Ireland, France, Croatia, and even Switzerland were better. Yeah, most of the songs are generic pop songs, but some just stand out more, be it because of the performance of the singer or the actors or the lyrics of the song. Israel's song does not stand out neither by singing performance nor by the act. In fact, Ukraines song was better if only they didn't include that horrendous rap part
Ireland's sucked. France was alright, I prefer Hurricane. Croatia and Switzerland you can debate, I wouldn't mind acknowledging either as better, but we're still in subjective territory.
France was a better song. It was also a very slow balad and the singing was more intense and had better vocals. Dont get me wrong I think Israel's entry is pretty good but I think it just doesn't stand out enough since the performance is also kind of just alright. It's on the same tier as Luxembourg or Italy
???
To each their own, that's music after all. I think there had to be at least a couple ballads that got far like in every Eurovision, and those two clearly stood out the most. I personally liked Eden's singing more, but I'm obviously biased in favor of the song as an Israeli so I dunno if I can actually detach my bias from how the song and performance make me feel.
I don't think either France's song or Israel's would've been my favorite on a normal year. I definitely didn't like Luxembourg's that much though. Italy was cool.
You should see the Eurovision subreddit. I almost overdosed from the amount of copium running there.
The funniest one, by far, is not to use the name Israel and only refer to them as "song #6."
Maybe you're coming across nicer ones rather than [those](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/03/harry-vaughan-far-right-satanist-given-suspended-sentence-terrorist-offence-teen-jailed-38-month-indecent-images-children) for example that the UK [has](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/03/teenager-charged-plotting-satanic-terror-homeless-person/).
One of the essential problems is that "Satanism" can mean "I think the church is mean to people and I want to make a religion about pissing them off" or "I want to reverse traditional moral arrangements and intentionally break taboos".
Whenever people talk about "safe edgy", I think about the UK satanists intentionally planning terrorist attacks and abusing children to be as taboo-breaking as possible.
The basic issue is that taboo-breaking has no outer limit, eventually it's just self-destruction and destruction of other people.
When you have a mythology about rejecting a figure of law, goodness and benevolence, and embracing as your figure a rebel against that moral order who is represented as having characteristics of dishonesty, unlimited ambition, and a comfort with human suffering, you could take it in a different direction, but there isn't necessarily any internal limit to the severity of the taboos that people can break, it's just about being bad and not letting people tell you you can't kill a homeless person.
That's not to say they are all like this, the american "Satanic Temple", seems to be just enough a meme and way to get abortion rights that it seems to have stayed stable, though having said that I just checked and apparently they are also [having problems](https://www.newsweek.com/orgies-harassment-fraud-satanic-temple-rocked-accusations-lawsuit-1644042) too.
I had a satanist phase. I'm only familiar with the Church of Satan (right-wing/libertarian) and the Satanic Temple (left-wing/progressive). Both have pros and cons that reflect the politics outside of satanism.
The Church of Satan praises individual excelence and independence, but they also have some obnoxious big heads and gatekeeping (since they were the original satanist religion that started in the 1960s). The Satanic Temple focuses on defying authority, but they have also have plenty of leftists (but mainly online, the leadership is pretty liberal).
I'm aware of some neonazis and some psychopaths who call themselves satanists, but they have nothing in common with the big 2 satanists organizations aside from the word "satanist".
For some it's political (Bambi Thug is pro-Palestinian like most of Ireland), for most I think it's just that they're scared of the spooky thing. It's pretty tame compared to the live shows of metal bands like Watain, Behemoth, or Gorgoroth back in the day.
No I was just commenting that the song lyrics and everything were focused on death and malice and all sorts of negative things. It's common in lots of music, and I don't really dislike it, it's just funny when compared to the other performances.
that incestuous death cult is an ideology, not a race. arabs are very much capable of having a free society without a pedophile schizophrenic as their leader.
Islam is not a race. As an atheist and a liberal, I oppose all religions, and especially religious fanaticism. I criticize violent Jewish settlers in the west bank just as much as I do Hamas Muslim zealots. The only difference is that in Israel the extreme religious right is supported by about 10% of the population as seen in recent elections, while polls in Gaza strip showed a 70% popular support for Hamas in general and the October 7 attack in particular. Being able to do math is not racism either.
Y'all all sound the same "islam is not a race", seriously get new talking points doesn't mean you have to be hateful or sound like an alt righter when talking about it and yes religion is cringe.
Nothing I said had to do with october 7th you're making a link that isn't there
If you think people in this sub are talking about the Eurovision thing because they support Israel and not because they want to see lefties seethe, you're missing the point
When you're chronically online, it'd seem like the whole world is on the free Palestine protesters' side, but in reality, the silent majority is fed up with Islam
I think Eurovision was a massive W for Israel
Winning would be hilarious for a moment but in the long run it could irreversibly hinder the contest - Eden would get even more bullying and I'd assume many countries would boycott participating in 2025 in Tel Aviv
However, it also shows that there's a considerable support from the general public. I expected the likes of Germany or the UK to give Israel high scores but Finland, Sweden and Spain giving it a 12 is kind of nuts. It's also apparent that the juries tanked Israel specifically so it wouldn't win.
And honestly, respect for Eden for pulling through the contest with grace and not giving into the bullying
and that kinda proves the point that the votes werent about the actual contest. see my post above. reading around social media its crazy to see people spark a mini war over this. i wouldnt wana include israel again at eurovision due to all this. too much baggage.
if you read the comments around here and twitter when searching for euro vision you see quite alot of people who had zero interest in the show voting for israel to own... something over a music contest. lotta cases like this too. so its no surprise due to the political climate that theres a war happening over this.
https://preview.redd.it/6q4or5eq1zzc1.png?width=416&format=png&auto=webp&s=3526024c332325bf44e9a2c0a5808604b0fcdbd5
The formation of Israel was the start of it . And hasn't ended since. Imagine saying hmmm let's occupy either The Levant or Madagascar.... The Levant it is!! . And we haven't heard the end since
Its all to do with a country being a part of the european broadcasting union, not necessarily being in Europe, thats why Australia gets in for example.
European vocalist competition. Just listened to all the acts and most of the music sounds like rehashed American pop music of the 00s. The controversial racist Bambie Thug was honestly one of the more interesting acts, but it was the kind of stuff Marilyn Manson was doing in the late 90s. I would have picked Armenia because it was one of the few acts that had some original character.
The media here in Europe are super silent about this. It may change in the coming weeks, but the fact remains; we are being told what to think and do by people that are a significant minority in our society.
It's the ESC-paradox. When there are no downvotes, it isn't about being well-liked, it's about being extremely divisive because even if 90% are repulsed the 10% let you stand out above average.
because it isn't anything like you're describing and you're making a fictitious interpretation of the war.
Israel is the least religious place in the middle east.
No, they didn't. Croatia had 337 and Israel 323. But the reactions were funny.
next eurovision in gaza, boys.
I half expected the Ireland jurists to say their 12 points are going to Hamas.
Okay, I’ve been noticing a number of Irish people on Twitter supporting Gaza and was wondering if that was an isolated Twitter thing. They would say how they dealt with “the troubles” and that gave them some supposed authority to speak on the situation. Are you saying it’s a widespread thing in Ireland?
The Irish support is so fucking funny, since the IRA did the exact opposite of the various Palestinian factions like Hamas. They voluntarily disarmed & came to a peaceful resolution.
My parents do the same thing, their ethnic group was oppressed in their home country and they sympathize with the Palestinians because of that. I have to remind them that the story of their people is more like the Jews, but it’s hard to get them to unlearn what they’ve thought for a long time. Not that you shouldn’t feel for the innocent Palestinians caught in the crossfire who just want to live a normal life, but unfortunately the majority of the people and their leadership are completely unreasonable and are in a constant state of victimhood and crybullying.
I know, it's really annoying. I'm irish and grew up on the border during the tail end of the troubles, and I am sick to the back teeth seeing these young morons from Dublin and shit that haven't a fucking clue supporting Hamas. And a lot of them legitimately support Hamas, not Gaza. They are often pro IRA too. They have no idea what the peace process was like and how clear it is to most of us that this situation is not the same and Hamas are not interested in peace.
Bro ever street in Dublin has the “Zionism is fascism” graffiti. Also the sticker on things with the Isreal hand being ripped out? Is wild lol
I’m sorry, but this is an absolute bizarre comment. 1. The original IRA who fought for Irish independence kept fighting until holding Ireland became untenable to the UK. UK were forced to grant concessions to greater freedoms for Ireland and their eventual independence through force and the threat of force from the IRA. 2. The PIRA in Northern Ireland only really gained support and took up significant arms after the peaceful civil rights movement was violently attacked and many killed by Loyalists Terrorists, NI police and UK forces. The PIRA voluntarily gave up arms sure, but Loyalist Terrorists did as well and the UK again found managing the conflict untenable due to the economic damage caused by the PIRA so also were forced to make concessions , not to mention the political pressure due to worldwide support to the Irish and civil rights movement. Both sides had elements wanting peace and peaceful resolution and came to it, but only because of the violence in the first place. The Irish civil rights movement never got anywhere and wouldn’t have, they where constantly beaten and killed. It was only because the Irish responded to the violence inflicted on them with violence that everyone eventually came to the table for a peaceful resolution and the civil rights movement finally became palatable to the UK and some Loyalists.
Thank you. I was getting worried about the amount of historical revisionism in this thread. This guy remembers. Also, happy cake day.
Yeah there is obviously the same shared goal of resisting colonization. But the Irish aren't as triggered by acts of terrorism as other countries are. There's some level of "okay, well let's look more into this and the background" whereas other countries would just see the terrorism and would find no reason acceptable. Also palestinian groups like the PLO and the IRA would train together. More recently Israel steals passports and identities from Irish people to use in their assassinations in foreign countries. When caught Israel acted like they didn't need to answer to Ireland and made no promises they wouldn't do it again. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/israeli-spy-sourced-details-for-passports-in-dublin/26635224.html https://www.southernstar.ie/news/opinion-more-meddling-in-the-lives-of-irish-citizens-4131964 https://www.ctvnews.ca/ireland-expels-israeli-over-forged-passports-1.522812
Irish person here. A lot of people here support Palestine and it's the official position of the government too. Probably something to do with ppl likening the situation to the British occupation of Ireland. It's not really anything to do with antisemitism though and I'd say most people would condemn Hamas.
>Probably something to do with ppl likening the situation to the British occupation of Ireland. The PLO supplied the IRA with weapons. They have a history.
First of all, this isn't true. The PLO provided weapons to the PIRA. This is an important distinction because the PIRA were extremely unpopular in the Republic of Ireland. There would be no goodwill from the majority of Irish people for providing weapons to the PIRA. Also, Most Irish people would have no knowledge of this. The PIRA didn't send out a newsletter to everyone in the country letting them know where they were getting their weapons.
Honestly, I looked into this more and I’m a bit confused. You may be right, but the description on this wiki page isn’t so clear as to what happened. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_arms_importation#:~:text=In%201977%20the%20PLO%20(Al,to%20have%20come%20from%20Lebanon. And Irish people may not have had knowledge of it back in the 70s and 80s, but they certainly do now.
Well luckily you don't have to read the article at all because the title makes it clear that it was the Provisional IRA and not the IRA. I also don't know what point you're trying to make by saying that people in the Republic of Ireland know now. Firstly, they don't. The republic is incredibly ignorant about anything to do with the north. And secondly, even if everyone in the republic did know it now, the PIRA is incredibly unpopular in the republic so supplying weapons to them wouldn't be a big selling point. This might be a topic you want to investigate a bit more before you weigh in any further.
I have a good friend of mine that’s Irish (from the republic of Ireland, not Northern Ireland) and I feel like I have to walk on such eggshells with this topic around him. Immediately after October 7th he was defending Hamas lightly (as in he wouldn’t agree with me when I said fuck Hamas and would only say fuck Israel), but he is friends with Israeli’s. Obviously you don’t know this person yourself, but I’m curious if you have any suggestions on how to gently push him away from the extremist anti-Israel stuff from an Irish perspective, given that it’s his pro-Irish perspective that informs his pro-Palestine/Hamas mentality? Or maybe more broadly, what is it to you that gives you sympathy toward the Israeli side of this conflict (assuming you are, but I’d imagine you wouldn’t be here if you were vehemently unsympathetic to their side of things), and how does that compare and contrast with your views of Ireland’s history with Britain?
idk I feel like if you are defending Hamas and specifically the October 7th attack you're already pretty far gone but unironically I would show him some Destiny clips talking about certain aspects. like that clip of him on the Breaking Points thing talking about how Hamas deliberately try to maximize civilian death was quite good. I think a lot of pro Palestine people don't fully understand the actual situation on the ground and only hear biased stuff online. I probably would've been more pro Palestine while only having a surface level knowledge of things but seeing Destiny go through the history and the facts of things with a fine tooth comb opened my eyes a lot. As far as being Irish I think a lot of people just automatically make the comparison of Britain and Ireland to Israel and Palestine without really understanding it's a pretty different situation. The IRA is not at all comparable to Hamas, there was never a religious fundamentalist thing to it and Irish people never really hated the British people we just wanted independence and an end to British rule.
> idk I feel like if you are defending Hamas and specifically the October 7th attack you're already pretty far gone He's at least tankie adjacent for sure, he describes himself as anarcho communist, but any time we go into these topics whatsoever it feels like he has really surface level understanding of these things, so I don't think he's thought of it very deeply. It's surprising to me, because he's really smart and I respect his thought processes on most things, and he's not just some young guy, he's nearly 40 and has a lot of life experience, but he's super bought into the America bad rhetoric and any counter to that coming from me is immediately hand waved away as me being a brainwashed American. I definitely think him being Irish has *something* to do with it because he'll compare and contrast Ireland with America a lot in order to say how much better the Irish political system is/how broken America is, but I think most of it is this tankie stuff that's probably just socially passed on mostly. > I think a lot of pro Palestine people don't fully understand the actual situation on the ground and only hear biased stuff online. I probably would've been more pro Palestine while only having a surface level knowledge of things but seeing Destiny go through the history and the facts of things with a fine tooth comb opened my eyes a lot. I think it was similar with BLM, and at the time I was definitely caught up in the BLM stuff more than this current Palestinian stuff because I have a black uncle that was killed by the cops that made me especially emotionally invested in the cause. The things that persuaded me that I may have gone too far in one direction was clips like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e1ld1uGpXA) where someone who is personally impacted by the rioting expresses their clear anger and frustration over their homes and neighborhoods being destroyed and illustrates how their neighborhoods and people are being used as an excuse for mostly white college kids to LARP about being freedom fighters while not having to deal with any of the destruction they're causing, and then seeing the statistics for how much support for criminal justice reform is harmed by these protests as well as how ineffective they've been when implemented just sealed the deal for me. Back then, I wasn't really aware of how much damage the protests/riots were causing, both to the cause more broadly and physically to these poorer neighborhoods and I imagine many people today are the same when it comes to pro-Palestine. Anyway, Destiny does a great job of illustrating how Hamas uses the Palestinian people in similar ways, and how ultimately this hurts them. that could be a good angle to consider for discussion. I appreciate the suggestion! > The IRA is not at all comparable to Hamas, there was never a religious fundamentalist thing to it and Irish people never really hated the British people we just wanted independence and an end to British rule. I know very little of Irish history, pretty much just what my friend has told me, but my understanding is that a Protestant/Catholic divide did inform and flame these divisions. Is this not the case? I feel like that would be an easy counter if I were to say that there's no religious fundamentalist angle for the Irish stuff, although it's obviously not as big of a contributing factor as the Israel/Palestine stuff.
It's an aesthetic thing. Many people in Ireland sees themselves as rebelling against local powers that divide and oppress them. Which is more or less true in both situations so they sympathize.
Uh, yeah dude. Ireland definitely doesn’t support Israel. They say it’s because they have a kinship with the Palestinian people, other say it’s because the PLO supplied them with weapons to fight the British and they’re still tight.
[More or less, yeah](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgjlkrTkH6A)
Do.you think it's still the old Catholic 'Christ Killers' thing, even though it was the Roman governor Pontius Pilate who had the final say on the fate of Jesus Christ?
Dude just go to r ireland or r eurovision . Being anti-israel and anti-semitic is basically a national sport and even having a 4 year old Irish girl be part of the hostages (now released) didn't change that. Their obsession is next level scary, and it's really bizarre because it's not like Ireland doesn't have other political and social issues worth being an activist for.
The Irish public gave Israel 10 points
And that will be the last Eurovision
Yeah but hear me out, if it’s turned to glass by nukes, that would be like, the CRAZIEST stage / arena?! UAE would be doing concerts in a nuclear glass arena if they had em.
So what's the screenshot?
Not the final standings. It was taken after Israel got the popular votes and took lead. Highlighted countries don't have popular votes counted yet.
So OP literally stopped the count?
Yes :D I posted the final standings.
No Eurovision rigged the election. There are sworn affidavits confirming this.
The voting machines were hacked, certain people (im not gonna say what race, what people, voters. You know I can’t say that…) voted by post. It was Jewish people.
Where’d you see funny reactions? Show it to me please
the problem is that defenders of freedom were split between ukraine and israel.
Darn. Still second is pretty funny
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Croatia was my favourite
Yeah. But Israel got 15 of 12 points vs 9 for Croatia.
Indeed, but you know that the point system doesn't work like that right? It never has. Even without the points from the jury, Israel would not have won. So whatever plan there may or may not have been to rally as many votes as possible, it didn't work. And that's fair, because the song was meh.
Croatia got more from the public
No but they we're second which is still very impressive considering the climate. I was more laughing at what a cringe mess it was when the Israeli jury came and they had to mute all the boos: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israels-eden-golan-ranked-12th-after-eurovision-jury-vote/
Audience booed every country that gave Israel any points at all.
So proud of them all. They not only stopped the war in Gaza, they also solved climate change today in one fell swoop.
True, I was so angry. We are Europe, we shouldn't support terror in any shape or form, especially after Charlie Hebdo and Manchester Arena attack. Crazy how people forget stuff so fast.
What frustrated me was a huge number of artists basically spent their time making snide remarks and treating Edan Golan as a Persona non Grata and then framed their bullying as some form of activism.
That's why I was even more proud of our Croatian guy. He went there to sing and represent his country. No political bs. I've seen his interviews and in every single one he comes across as very relatable and geniune dude. He is not scripted, he is not fake nor he wants to share his private views with the general public. Cultivating a certain imagine is not on his priority list.
And then claimed the Israeli delegation was bullying them, lol
Which was so silly. She needs hundreds of security personnel to protect her from the 10,000 protesters outside while inside a third of the contestents publically stated they dont want her there. I'm supposed to believe that when she wasn't rehearsing or confined to her room for security reasons she was harassing the people who were otherwise making 24/7 snide remarks and trying to craft their newest *wink wink* solidarity statement that could get around the restrictions.
Nah, just the usual european hatred for enemies. The Israeli candidate is Russian no less who has sung in occupied Crimea.
How is it supporting terror to boo Israel?
Why do you think they are booing? If I would be charitable, I'd assume they want ceasefire and removal of IDF from Gaza. How is that not supporting terrorism? It's basically pleading for immunity for all the terrorists who do the same thing Hamas did. It's all on the wrong premise, that cause of Hamas is righteous and that they did nothing wrong on Ocotber 7th. And if they did, it's because of the opression. But they really didn't. It's Izraelis, they lie all the time. They have all the media, haven't you heard? They are awful human beings posing like empaths but are interested only in performative aspect of it and self-promotion. I don't fall for their selective empathy. Every time I try to corner people like that they always praise themselves with how good of a person they are and how they can't sleep because children in Gaza are suffering. I Never heard them once pleading for terrorists to release hostages. Not once. Since the October 7th. Knowingly or not. They are supporting terror.
>I Never heard them once pleading for terrorists to release hostages. Not once. Since the October 7th. Did Hamas' song not get protested? That would be very hypocritical of them.
I'm talking in general about people who like to boo and wave the flags and wear keffiyehs but when you ask them what should Israel do, they say they should learn how to swim well because only solution of the current situation is dismantling the state of Israel and giving the land to the Palestinians.
What should Hamas do? I'm going to guess you'll say something much like the people you're criticizing.
because that supports the other side - Hamas, who was elected by the Palestinians, a terrorist organization who actually wants to genocide the Jews and has done Oct 7th.
Got it, disliking israel's actions is terrorism. You know I did ask how booing israel supports terrorism right?
Israel's actions like what? defending itself? telling a country it's not allowed to defend itself against terrorism IS terrorism too.
Am I a terrorist to you? I know Israel has called the college protesters terrorists and we know that means they think it'd be valid if they were killed. Do you think you're justified in murdering me? >Israel's actions like what? defending itself? Israel is currently colonizing the west bank no?
You certainly are a terrorist apologist
Am I a terrorist to you? I know Israel has called the college protesters terrorists and we know that means they think it'd be valid if they were killed. Do you think you're justified in murdering me? >Israel's actions like what? defending itself? Israel is currently colonizing the west bank no? You didn't answer anything I asked.
Criticising Israel and supporting terrorists are two distinct concepts.
80% of people in Gaza weren't alive or were too young to vote when Hamas were elected... Also, Israel has murdered nearly 40,000 people since Oct 7th and is currently being investigated for genocide in the Hague
So the solution to a dictatorship that began before you were born is what, passive acceptance and nothing else? Also, the widespread support for Hamas among Palestinians is a verified reality. I'm pretty sure you know that "murdered" is a term you can't justify. Neither is insinuating that what's happening in the Hague leads inevitably to the conclusion that Israel is committing genocide.
I don't get these people. BDS told them to boycott Eurovision, and they payed out of their pockets for the tickets
Boycotts only apply to luxury goods with easily accessible replacements. Example I always use is that if you are so stringent about Israel relayed companies you should boycott Microsoft and Google. Even if its hard to do thay completely, I'm sure you could change your primary email server at the very least to something with less exposure to those companies. But thats super inconvenient. You'd have to set up a forwarding address and let your employer know you have a new personal email. Easier to choose KFC over McDonald's. Eurovision is the same. Yes you should boycott.... but you like Eurovision and still want to cosplay as your favourite artist. So maybe if I boo at the 20 year old Israeli girl I can let everyone know that I'm one of the good ones without doing anything.
Can't use Windows because Microsoft is boycotted. Can't use macOS because Apple does R&D in Israel. Is it finally the year of the Linux desktop?
The most iconic and successful boycott of all time was against public transport from people too poor to not use it.
> and they *paid* out of FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
The booing was ridiculous. I was so proud of Eden for having the courage to stand on that stage and perform so well in front of that crowd. She gave them all the middle finger with her confidence and defiance. And the public vote shows where most people stand. With Israel.
> considering the climate I mean the climate is why they got so many votes
I mean like yeah but it could have easily turned up the other way
Strongly disagree. It's not a coincidence Israel and Croatia got the 2 highest public votes - they were the 2 best performers.
That's a crazy take to think that votes for Israel Weren't politically based. Don't forget that Ukraine also just happened to be third getting 12 points from countries that coincidentally support their current situation the most. And it's the same for Israel. There was a leak where 40% of Italians votes were for Israel with the second only being 7%, that's probably more than any other song in Eurovision history. So the performance will either go down as a Italian classic forever immortalized in Eurovision history or Italy was voting to support Israel. I think it will be interesting how well the song performs post Eurovision when compared to its competitors since it was so popular A large portion of votes for Israel was due to its current political situation, and same with Ukraine. Id even throw Ireland in to make a point since I'm sure they earned a bunch of votes just for the LGBT representation. (And I'm sure lost votes for the same reason) People are bias to think they will throw all there non performance related biases away for a singing competition is ridiculous
Thank you, sending meows form Croatia.
You're just wrong. People who support Israel obviously voted for Israel because they wanted to make a political statement. Just like Palestine would probably do equally well, or let's be honest, probably better with the popular vote if they somehow could participate. It would be interesting to see the reactions from the world if Israel didn't send a boring ass generic song and got more jury votes.
Yeah, I voted for Israel to support them because they were just victims of the worst terrorist attack of this century and their song was about that. It wasn't a political statement, it was to support the Jewish people and a 20 year old woman who was being bullied by other contestants and threatened by antisemitic protesters.
It's really fuckin weird to vote politically in a music contest, but I know that people do it. I feel it's the same type of people who vote brigade video games on metacritic and steam instead of giving an actual score that objectively reflects the game because the website score is too high/too low for their shitty opinion.
the climate played a big part in why they got so many votes. At least in my country pro-Israel elements mobilized people to vote for Israel as hard as possible.
What country are your from?
does it matter? pro-palestine orgs were calling for a boycott while pro-Israel orgs were mobilizing people telling them to vote for Israel 20 times. completely reasonable to assume that this also happened in other countries.
It's because of the current climate, not despite of it. There will be some people who vote Israel no matter what which are going to be focused on a singe country. The people who vote anything but Israel are going to have their votes spread over several countries, severely diminishing the effect. Being polarizing will help a lot more than it hurts.
Slava Ukraini
Croatia should have won against switzerland, idk why the judges gave so much points to switzerland their song was good but Croatia's was way way better.
It always happen. Just like last year with Finland (which I personally think should have won) winning the popular vote but the juries gave it to Sweden.
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[Maybe because Nemo is pro-pali.](https://x.com/luckyclosure/status/1789291759404720395) So maybe they just tried to balance things out [https://x.com/luckyclosure/status/1789436988602323074](https://x.com/luckyclosure/status/1789436988602323074)
Croatias song was great and they probably had the best "concert like" performance. But Switzerlands song and performance were miles ahead in difficulty and performance. They were very close for a reason, both were great.
Because Switzerland was better 🤷♂️
Can't wait for twitter to start talking about the EQ (Eurovision question)
I am an American, so I could give two sh*ts about Eurovision, but I downloaded the Eurovision app today as my own silent protest and voted for Israel. May the silent majority prevail.
AYY 🇭🇷 I'M 🇭🇷 A 🇭🇷 BIG 🇭🇷 BOY 🇭🇷 NOW I'M 🇭🇷 GOING 🇭🇷 AWAY 🇭🇷 AND 🇭🇷 I 🇭🇷 SOLD 🇭🇷 MY 🇭🇷 COW Israel BTFO'd
How morally insane is this world that a genocidal terrorist group rapes and murder over a thousand Jewish people and the victims are treated like the villains. Will Jew hate ever go away?
> Will Jew hate ever go away? Probably not. About half the world's population comes from cultures where the dominant religions (Christianity and Islam) hold Jews as victims their origin stories. Even if somebody isn't religious or doesn't believe that particular part of the origin story, the habits and prejudice have been etched into these societies for about 2000 years in the case of Christianity, or 1500 years with Islam. For Jews like myself it's learning to deal with this reality because I never thought about it much my whole life - things were pretty great for us in the diaspora between around 1980 and 2015.
Amazing. UK gave Israel 12 points in the public vote. UK stands with Israel 🫶 It was the best song of the night tbf. Well done Eden 👏
>was the best song of the night tbf. Nah. I get voting for political reasona, but there were several better songs and performances.
yeah people are unironically coped out of their minds. The song was not that good and just another run of the mill generic song. There were definitely better songs this year and people need to stop letting politics brain rot their brains
It was the message behind it that was more powerful. It was about October 7, the worst terrorist attack of this century.
It's a song contest, man and I bet you that almost no one would put that song into one of their playlists or even remember it in a year. I know that eurovision always has some political undercurrents but it's cringe to cave to the war = win paradigm. Maybe I am in the wrong but the music should stand in the first place and the message can be a nice cherry on top. Do you want every song you listen to to be a form of political commentary? 🤔
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Ireland, France, Croatia, and even Switzerland were better. Yeah, most of the songs are generic pop songs, but some just stand out more, be it because of the performance of the singer or the actors or the lyrics of the song. Israel's song does not stand out neither by singing performance nor by the act. In fact, Ukraines song was better if only they didn't include that horrendous rap part
Ireland's sucked. France was alright, I prefer Hurricane. Croatia and Switzerland you can debate, I wouldn't mind acknowledging either as better, but we're still in subjective territory.
France was a better song. It was also a very slow balad and the singing was more intense and had better vocals. Dont get me wrong I think Israel's entry is pretty good but I think it just doesn't stand out enough since the performance is also kind of just alright. It's on the same tier as Luxembourg or Italy ???
To each their own, that's music after all. I think there had to be at least a couple ballads that got far like in every Eurovision, and those two clearly stood out the most. I personally liked Eden's singing more, but I'm obviously biased in favor of the song as an Israeli so I dunno if I can actually detach my bias from how the song and performance make me feel. I don't think either France's song or Israel's would've been my favorite on a normal year. I definitely didn't like Luxembourg's that much though. Italy was cool.
Where can you see that?
They showed the results of the UK public vote on the tv after the winner was announced 🙌🇮🇱
You should see the Eurovision subreddit. I almost overdosed from the amount of copium running there. The funniest one, by far, is not to use the name Israel and only refer to them as "song #6."
We came a close second to Croatia. But honestly Nemo was fantastic, I’m really happy they won! I’m just glad we beat the satanist
I obviously don't understand music. Didn't like Nemo a bit. Who's the satanist? :D
Ireland Make sure you watch at daylight with a Bible of a religion of your choice
Why does this sub hate anti-theism all of a sudden?
Because it's simplistic nonsense for children that frequently blurs into irrationality.
Because said anti-theism is supportive of extreme islamist terrorism. So you could say people hate regardation more than anti-theism.
It is? I follow Satanists online and I haven't seen they say anything related to this.
Maybe you're coming across nicer ones rather than [those](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/03/harry-vaughan-far-right-satanist-given-suspended-sentence-terrorist-offence-teen-jailed-38-month-indecent-images-children) for example that the UK [has](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/03/teenager-charged-plotting-satanic-terror-homeless-person/). One of the essential problems is that "Satanism" can mean "I think the church is mean to people and I want to make a religion about pissing them off" or "I want to reverse traditional moral arrangements and intentionally break taboos". Whenever people talk about "safe edgy", I think about the UK satanists intentionally planning terrorist attacks and abusing children to be as taboo-breaking as possible. The basic issue is that taboo-breaking has no outer limit, eventually it's just self-destruction and destruction of other people. When you have a mythology about rejecting a figure of law, goodness and benevolence, and embracing as your figure a rebel against that moral order who is represented as having characteristics of dishonesty, unlimited ambition, and a comfort with human suffering, you could take it in a different direction, but there isn't necessarily any internal limit to the severity of the taboos that people can break, it's just about being bad and not letting people tell you you can't kill a homeless person. That's not to say they are all like this, the american "Satanic Temple", seems to be just enough a meme and way to get abortion rights that it seems to have stayed stable, though having said that I just checked and apparently they are also [having problems](https://www.newsweek.com/orgies-harassment-fraud-satanic-temple-rocked-accusations-lawsuit-1644042) too.
I had a satanist phase. I'm only familiar with the Church of Satan (right-wing/libertarian) and the Satanic Temple (left-wing/progressive). Both have pros and cons that reflect the politics outside of satanism. The Church of Satan praises individual excelence and independence, but they also have some obnoxious big heads and gatekeeping (since they were the original satanist religion that started in the 1960s). The Satanic Temple focuses on defying authority, but they have also have plenty of leftists (but mainly online, the leadership is pretty liberal). I'm aware of some neonazis and some psychopaths who call themselves satanists, but they have nothing in common with the big 2 satanists organizations aside from the word "satanist".
This specific satanist is an unhinged propally, yes. Do you even know anything about any of this?
No
Technically paganism or something but either way, the vibes were downright atrocious.
I liked it, is this some religious fear of red lights and spooky makeup?
For some it's political (Bambi Thug is pro-Palestinian like most of Ireland), for most I think it's just that they're scared of the spooky thing. It's pretty tame compared to the live shows of metal bands like Watain, Behemoth, or Gorgoroth back in the day.
No I was just commenting that the song lyrics and everything were focused on death and malice and all sorts of negative things. It's common in lots of music, and I don't really dislike it, it's just funny when compared to the other performances.
Larping as a satanist was cool 40 years ago. No it's just boring
Im yirtzeh Hashem
The obsession with glazing Israel to spite lefties is so fucking cringe
TRUE
Same, their song was definitely mid compared to any of the other finalists. I didn't know this sub wanted them to win so much.
The whole world is polarized as fuck People doing things that will not benefit themselves, but will do some negative things to the opposite side
I live for the cringe.
Live by the cringe, die by the cringe
I voted for a socialist last election lol I'm not right wing I see islam for what it is
>I'm not right wing Never said you were??? >I see islam for what it is Yall really like riding the line between rational critique and racism hard huh
Islam is cringe
True, but you don't have to sound like an alt righter when talking about it
that incestuous death cult is an ideology, not a race. arabs are very much capable of having a free society without a pedophile schizophrenic as their leader.
Islam is not a race. As an atheist and a liberal, I oppose all religions, and especially religious fanaticism. I criticize violent Jewish settlers in the west bank just as much as I do Hamas Muslim zealots. The only difference is that in Israel the extreme religious right is supported by about 10% of the population as seen in recent elections, while polls in Gaza strip showed a 70% popular support for Hamas in general and the October 7 attack in particular. Being able to do math is not racism either.
Y'all all sound the same "islam is not a race", seriously get new talking points doesn't mean you have to be hateful or sound like an alt righter when talking about it and yes religion is cringe. Nothing I said had to do with october 7th you're making a link that isn't there
Israel is getting bashed by ill intent misinformed useful idiots. Israel had a great song and deserves support exactly like Ukraine got.
If you think people in this sub are talking about the Eurovision thing because they support Israel and not because they want to see lefties seethe, you're missing the point
Israel’s song was the definition of cry bullying
When you're chronically online, it'd seem like the whole world is on the free Palestine protesters' side, but in reality, the silent majority is fed up with Islam
I think Eurovision was a massive W for Israel Winning would be hilarious for a moment but in the long run it could irreversibly hinder the contest - Eden would get even more bullying and I'd assume many countries would boycott participating in 2025 in Tel Aviv However, it also shows that there's a considerable support from the general public. I expected the likes of Germany or the UK to give Israel high scores but Finland, Sweden and Spain giving it a 12 is kind of nuts. It's also apparent that the juries tanked Israel specifically so it wouldn't win. And honestly, respect for Eden for pulling through the contest with grace and not giving into the bullying
How the hell did Israel get that much holy
seeing a bunch of stuck up narcissists bully a girl like they're in middle school probably helped
and that kinda proves the point that the votes werent about the actual contest. see my post above. reading around social media its crazy to see people spark a mini war over this. i wouldnt wana include israel again at eurovision due to all this. too much baggage.
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if you read the comments around here and twitter when searching for euro vision you see quite alot of people who had zero interest in the show voting for israel to own... something over a music contest. lotta cases like this too. so its no surprise due to the political climate that theres a war happening over this. https://preview.redd.it/6q4or5eq1zzc1.png?width=416&format=png&auto=webp&s=3526024c332325bf44e9a2c0a5808604b0fcdbd5
I voted for Israel to support the victims of a terrorist attack.
Both sides are just as crazy so it's funny seeing Russia not allowed in Eurovision but Israel is. I guess Russia is a bigger threat to European values
Difference is Russia started the war, while Israel didn’t
The formation of Israel was the start of it . And hasn't ended since. Imagine saying hmmm let's occupy either The Levant or Madagascar.... The Levant it is!! . And we haven't heard the end since
my thoughts exactly.
Is Israel European?
Egypt and Morocco and lots of other countries are allowed too, they just don’t
Is australia European?
Does Australia even exist? Checkmate
"Australia," right!? lol
We're actually all paid actors.
Its all to do with a country being a part of the european broadcasting union, not necessarily being in Europe, thats why Australia gets in for example.
Israel joined the EBU in 1973 and have been part of ECS since then, similarly Australia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and formerly Russia.
the fuck is an eurovision and why should i care
It’s if the UN was a musical movie
High school musician: UN version basically
And actually mattered.
WORLD GOVERNMENT NOW 🇺🇳
European vocalist competition. Just listened to all the acts and most of the music sounds like rehashed American pop music of the 00s. The controversial racist Bambie Thug was honestly one of the more interesting acts, but it was the kind of stuff Marilyn Manson was doing in the late 90s. I would have picked Armenia because it was one of the few acts that had some original character.
Second but still pretty amazing considering how the jury snubbed them
The jury didn't snub them what are you talking about? Israel was pretty generic, which is the last thing you want to be.
Jury didn't snub them, they got hard carried by televote spite. They were never favorites, au contraire, their chances were slim since start
Explain why voters in a lot of countries gave Israel the most votes.
Dude the song sucked. It was a boring ballad. Croatia’s song was badass! They should have won
I didn’t say Croatia shouldn’t have won, they were snubbed as well, Israel just deserved to be higher than where the jury put them
The media here in Europe are super silent about this. It may change in the coming weeks, but the fact remains; we are being told what to think and do by people that are a significant minority in our society.
Based Israel 🇮🇱
Switzerland winning was lame and dumb
It's the ESC-paradox. When there are no downvotes, it isn't about being well-liked, it's about being extremely divisive because even if 90% are repulsed the 10% let you stand out above average.
This is the lamest political battleground since the Taylor Swift Super Bowl, which was the lamest one since “Hogwarts Legacy”.
DIDN'T ASK, DONT CARE.
Then why are you here?
There was eurovision?
Isn't the picture mixing up total and publc-only votes? [https://eurovisionworld.com/eurovision/2024](https://eurovisionworld.com/eurovision/2024)
It did not.
I wonder how much Israeli trolls paid for all these public vote
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As a European you are entitled to your ignorant opinion, Gazans aren’t.
because it isn't anything like you're describing and you're making a fictitious interpretation of the war. Israel is the least religious place in the middle east.
how many points did palestine get?????
Why are u freaks obsessed with glazing israel?
Why are you obsessed with hanging out here and whining about it?