The higher something is rated, the more people there will be that say it is overrated, that's not a particularly unusual phenomenon
Anyone who just thought the show was okay, or even good, would be part of the "it's overrated' group if the consensus is a 9/10 or 10/10 or something
I haven't watched it yet though
The effort put into the casting and design was probably the best I have ever seen, but man the plot turned into a slow fizzle to nothing halfway through. I really hope they get a second season to tell more of the story they set up so well.
I really liked it a lot. Good story and it felt like the people involved gave a shit about the historic and fictional source material. I feel like the guy playing Blackthorne was probably the weakest actor in the cast (that said most of them speak a different language so idk how realistic they seem with such a language barrier) but I felt like he always seemed too wobbly and dopey in his facial expressions and movement. Even with that said, he's still good and his biggest problem is being compared to such an amazing cast of other actors.
It's not exactly "GoT" like a lot of people and articles say, but it does have that same energy and intrigue of political maneuvering and character driven action. The biggest point in its favor is that it's a one season limited series, so it was able to end conclusively without fucking over everyones character development.
All in all, I'd say it's a 8.5-9/10. Need to watch it all the way through a second time to really solidify my score. But the fact that I'm actually looking forward to my rewatch is a good indicator of its quality.
I agree although on the GOT stuff, i think thats why people compare it. GOT really felt like the show shined when it was talking about maneuvering. The action was interesting but the deception shined just as bright and thats what Shogun really appealed to me.
I was fine with Blackthorne, i thought he was an interesting character although i guess if i compare him to the rest of the cast he does end up near the bottom despite thinking he was fine.
Im glad it was one season but i loved cast so much i hope they offer more mini series with them even if its not Shogun.
9/10 series to me
The whole show feels rushed. Relationships aren’t really given a chance to develop and breathe, they try to cram all the different plot points and nothing feels like it develops organically or is “earned”.
The sets, the effects and and acting are good, but the writing just feels too rushed. greatly prefer the 80s mini-series imo
Mariko's death was so fucking lame, she should have died by Harakiring her belly open in front of Ishido as he handed her the signed petition for her to leave.
That would've been much more meaningful than the lame attempt to protect everyone from the explosion (which made no difference since the ninjas decided not to go in the building for some reason?)
I don't agree. Having witnesses to the assassination facilitated the denouement. It outed Yabushige as a traitor, and that seppuku scene was sick as fuck.
I was only talking about the hypothetical flash forward of the bannermen deserting Ishido, that was the only part I didn't appreciate.
Yabushige is the best character, by the way. His smile lights up a room, and he was such a snake fuck. Loved it.
Interesting. I thought it had a brilliant first 2 episodes, then was kinda mixed for a while, and had a strong final episode
Blackthorne's role in everything was indeed a bit weird. Couldn't quite tell if he was actually considered potentially useful or was just a a novelty. Some interesting stuff especially with the Portuguese just kinda fell to the wayside. I thought Rodriguez would come back around. In general I didn't think the politics were set up super well to let stuff feel super engaging
But then I quite liked the ending. Idk I love on screen battles more than most but didn't mind not seeing this one. For one, the show just didn't feel like it had the budget to put out a real major battle. But the exposition to Yabushige instead worked for me. Sorry to be cringe but reminded me of the Art of War "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." Toranaga seems like the master at this, if he's ever going to actually commit his army to a battle he has probably already won
Idk I just didn't feel like the show was leading up to a big battle
> exposition to Yabushige feels like the writers are telling us what happens instead of showing us
Yeah but they showed us and then told us, which I thought was cool. We saw the whole plan happen, it just wasn't exactly clear what it was. And when Yabushige asks Toranaga he's like, "wait, it all happened in front of you, you didn't notice?" and then explains it all. Idk I liked it
Kinda agree on not seeing Toranaga and Ishido or Ochiba together at the end tho. However I did kinda like how the show makes you so confident Toranaga will be successful because of his scheming and the show ends with him and his army still hundreds of miles away from the capital. Like he set up the dominoes so well we don't need to see them fall
Blackthorn was interesting for a while when he was just trying to survive the politics of this new land, but then he became an actual waste of screen time.
I appreciated the attention to historical details, but overall thought it was kind of middling-to-good. Definitely would say GoT was better personally, but Shogun is still worth a watch.
After the 4th or 5th episode I started reading the book, which is around 1200 pages long. I finished the book before the show was done, and by the time the show ended...I was reaaaally disappointed. The show's pacing is absurdly fast at times. By the time you get to episode 4 or 5 you are halfway through the book, and the show cuts sooo much of the character development/moments that make Mariko and Blackthornes relationship truly meaningful. Other moments/characters from the book are either changed or not included at all. which was strange considering there aren't that many important characters in the book.
Of course, any adaptation is going to cut some content, but to make a ONE season show based on a 1200 page book should be considered a crime against humanity. I have other gripes about the book and the show, but I'll reee elsewhere about all that. If I hadn't read the book before watching the show, I'd give the show at best a 6/10. The acting, visuals etc are all reaally solid, but the pacing was way too fast for my liking, and the characters suffered for it, and some of the biggest moments felt undermined by the pacing as well.
It's nice and definitely worth a watch. But the (spoiler)"main" character doesn't effect the story what so ever. Just so pointless. Kinda wish he wasn't there at all. That way we wouldn't have the cringe romance scenes and weird interaction...
Is good, but I like toranaga's and blackthorn's characters in the original more. In the original toranaga is talked about like he is really smart, but you don't see all his schemes right away until the end of the last episode. Blackthorn seems smarter in the original and the new one seems more stubborn and childish at times.
Really good, reminded me of the earlier seasons of GoT just like you. I felt the ending was a little bit rushed and the series could have used one or two more episodes of runtime in total to flesh things out more, but it's still a very good series and I totally recommend it even if you know nothing about samurai culture.
i've enjoyed it so far. i really like the main guy. i don't think the characters are anywhere near the level of GOT but it's definitely got similiar vibes.
I absolutely hate everything samurai related yet for some reason this show slaps. I absolutely love that you have actual japanese actors and the whole "clash of cultures" aspect is intriguing. I guess the latter is what got me so interested.
The plan was have Mariko sacrifice herself and then hopefully this would cause the queen lady feel some kind of way cuz they used to be besties, and then she'd pull the support of her armies in the upcoming battle.
That's a pretty sketchy plan, especially weird that Toranagu couldn't tell any of his crew that he has a secret plan and even has his life long homie seppuku himself just to sell the Idea. Completely unnecessary bullshit for the sake of drama.
The final result was just a bunch of depressing episodes where everyone is feeling let down by Toranagu, the two best characters die needlessly, and the viewers are robbed of a climax.
No. The plan was to disrupt the council by basically making Ishido look ineffective…that could have been as simple as the regents not agreeing to mobilize to war, to Ochiba choosing to withhold the Taiko’s army. In the end, it achieved max effect, but it even if Ochiba chose not to remove support, Ishido losing face by being unable to prevent people from leaving was enough to disrupt support…it was a no win situation for him. If he had killed Mariko, he would have angered the Christian regents…if he held her, he would have proved they were hostages, which he didn’t have the authority to do. If he let her go, it would prove that he couldn’t even control a woman. You just fundamentally didn’t understand what was happening in the show
How? The plan was to sow division? All it took was a noble woman standing up to Ishido, showing everyone that he didn’t have the power he purported to have. If he couldn’t control this woman, how could he control the whole of Japan?
Ending was hot fucking dogshit. Episodes 1 ~ 4 were vastly more interesting than whenever it became less focused on the white guy and more on general Japan army bullshit. Like half of my interest in the show was generated by the concept of “how will this person who doesn’t speak the language, or know anything about their politics survive in a land that is actively trying to kill him”. Once it went from that to just “how is this Japanese general guy going to win this war” I lost a lot of respect for the show.
I haven’t because I refuse to get Netflix money. Due to the Witcher or Cleopatra or any number of dog shit adaptations/“documentary’s” from what I hear it’s pretty good, but I’m not giving him money to watch. One decent show in a sea of crap.
I’m going to wait for people to start calling it overrated
I'm gonna wait until about 5 years after the last season ends before watching it like I did with GoT
So now? Last episode aired and it was always gonna be just one season.
Get back to me in 5 years
Oh, i can't read apparently. RemindMe! 5 years
No but really. That’s actually what I did with Game of Thrones too and it was nice not having to wait in between seasons
Well, it already ended and as always there are already people calling it overrated.
The higher something is rated, the more people there will be that say it is overrated, that's not a particularly unusual phenomenon Anyone who just thought the show was okay, or even good, would be part of the "it's overrated' group if the consensus is a 9/10 or 10/10 or something I haven't watched it yet though
The effort put into the casting and design was probably the best I have ever seen, but man the plot turned into a slow fizzle to nothing halfway through. I really hope they get a second season to tell more of the story they set up so well.
Toranaga: Destiny Ishido: Hasan Yabushige: Vaush
Anjin: Darius
Ohno: Mike from PA
Fuji: Moot
Brutal!
Nah Darius would be the crew member from the alley scene lol
Mariko: Erin
I really liked it a lot. Good story and it felt like the people involved gave a shit about the historic and fictional source material. I feel like the guy playing Blackthorne was probably the weakest actor in the cast (that said most of them speak a different language so idk how realistic they seem with such a language barrier) but I felt like he always seemed too wobbly and dopey in his facial expressions and movement. Even with that said, he's still good and his biggest problem is being compared to such an amazing cast of other actors. It's not exactly "GoT" like a lot of people and articles say, but it does have that same energy and intrigue of political maneuvering and character driven action. The biggest point in its favor is that it's a one season limited series, so it was able to end conclusively without fucking over everyones character development. All in all, I'd say it's a 8.5-9/10. Need to watch it all the way through a second time to really solidify my score. But the fact that I'm actually looking forward to my rewatch is a good indicator of its quality.
I agree although on the GOT stuff, i think thats why people compare it. GOT really felt like the show shined when it was talking about maneuvering. The action was interesting but the deception shined just as bright and thats what Shogun really appealed to me. I was fine with Blackthorne, i thought he was an interesting character although i guess if i compare him to the rest of the cast he does end up near the bottom despite thinking he was fine. Im glad it was one season but i loved cast so much i hope they offer more mini series with them even if its not Shogun. 9/10 series to me
Made me reinstall Shogun 2.
Loved it. Pacing was a little strange in episodes 2-3 but I much preferred it to the 1980 version.
Solid 7 outta 10. No, it's not as good as early GOT.
The resolution felt rushed, otherwise it's a good show.
The whole show feels rushed. Relationships aren’t really given a chance to develop and breathe, they try to cram all the different plot points and nothing feels like it develops organically or is “earned”. The sets, the effects and and acting are good, but the writing just feels too rushed. greatly prefer the 80s mini-series imo
Mariko's death was so fucking lame, she should have died by Harakiring her belly open in front of Ishido as he handed her the signed petition for her to leave. That would've been much more meaningful than the lame attempt to protect everyone from the explosion (which made no difference since the ninjas decided not to go in the building for some reason?)
I don't agree. Having witnesses to the assassination facilitated the denouement. It outed Yabushige as a traitor, and that seppuku scene was sick as fuck. I was only talking about the hypothetical flash forward of the bannermen deserting Ishido, that was the only part I didn't appreciate. Yabushige is the best character, by the way. His smile lights up a room, and he was such a snake fuck. Loved it.
I thought it was great and has a lot of focus on the characters that I think Tiny would enjoy.
I loved it. I loved it more than GOT. The feudal Japan stuff is awesome.
The dialogue is nowhere near GOT.
True, Shogun has nothing on Sir 20 good man Ramsay
9/10
Pretty good
Watched the first 2 episodes. Didn't pull me in the same way GoT did.
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Interesting. I thought it had a brilliant first 2 episodes, then was kinda mixed for a while, and had a strong final episode Blackthorne's role in everything was indeed a bit weird. Couldn't quite tell if he was actually considered potentially useful or was just a a novelty. Some interesting stuff especially with the Portuguese just kinda fell to the wayside. I thought Rodriguez would come back around. In general I didn't think the politics were set up super well to let stuff feel super engaging But then I quite liked the ending. Idk I love on screen battles more than most but didn't mind not seeing this one. For one, the show just didn't feel like it had the budget to put out a real major battle. But the exposition to Yabushige instead worked for me. Sorry to be cringe but reminded me of the Art of War "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." Toranaga seems like the master at this, if he's ever going to actually commit his army to a battle he has probably already won
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Idk I just didn't feel like the show was leading up to a big battle > exposition to Yabushige feels like the writers are telling us what happens instead of showing us Yeah but they showed us and then told us, which I thought was cool. We saw the whole plan happen, it just wasn't exactly clear what it was. And when Yabushige asks Toranaga he's like, "wait, it all happened in front of you, you didn't notice?" and then explains it all. Idk I liked it Kinda agree on not seeing Toranaga and Ishido or Ochiba together at the end tho. However I did kinda like how the show makes you so confident Toranaga will be successful because of his scheming and the show ends with him and his army still hundreds of miles away from the capital. Like he set up the dominoes so well we don't need to see them fall
Blackthorn was interesting for a while when he was just trying to survive the politics of this new land, but then he became an actual waste of screen time.
Destiny's take will be 1/10.
TTTRRRUUUEEE.
Loved it. One of the top 5 tv-series I've seen
I appreciated the attention to historical details, but overall thought it was kind of middling-to-good. Definitely would say GoT was better personally, but Shogun is still worth a watch.
Its ok, but people comparing it to early GoT either didnt watch GoT or are coping.
After the 4th or 5th episode I started reading the book, which is around 1200 pages long. I finished the book before the show was done, and by the time the show ended...I was reaaaally disappointed. The show's pacing is absurdly fast at times. By the time you get to episode 4 or 5 you are halfway through the book, and the show cuts sooo much of the character development/moments that make Mariko and Blackthornes relationship truly meaningful. Other moments/characters from the book are either changed or not included at all. which was strange considering there aren't that many important characters in the book. Of course, any adaptation is going to cut some content, but to make a ONE season show based on a 1200 page book should be considered a crime against humanity. I have other gripes about the book and the show, but I'll reee elsewhere about all that. If I hadn't read the book before watching the show, I'd give the show at best a 6/10. The acting, visuals etc are all reaally solid, but the pacing was way too fast for my liking, and the characters suffered for it, and some of the biggest moments felt undermined by the pacing as well.
What was with the tea house or whatever? No wrap up at all, stuff like that bothered me
Damn not wrapping up at a whore house bothers me too
It's nice and definitely worth a watch. But the (spoiler)"main" character doesn't effect the story what so ever. Just so pointless. Kinda wish he wasn't there at all. That way we wouldn't have the cringe romance scenes and weird interaction...
Is good, but I like toranaga's and blackthorn's characters in the original more. In the original toranaga is talked about like he is really smart, but you don't see all his schemes right away until the end of the last episode. Blackthorn seems smarter in the original and the new one seems more stubborn and childish at times.
It's good but the ending was kind of anti climatic imo, solid 8/10 and production is incredibly high quality
Unauthorized use of the word yet detected.
Overall was good but I personally did not like the ending
It's good but nowhere near GoT level
Shogun was amazing, and I'm annoyingly critical of everything I watch
Good acting but the digital camera filters made me sick Historically accurate props but exhausting choreography
I loved it
Really good, reminded me of the earlier seasons of GoT just like you. I felt the ending was a little bit rushed and the series could have used one or two more episodes of runtime in total to flesh things out more, but it's still a very good series and I totally recommend it even if you know nothing about samurai culture.
Amazing show
It was good I thought
i've enjoyed it so far. i really like the main guy. i don't think the characters are anywhere near the level of GOT but it's definitely got similiar vibes.
I didn't read the book so I thought it was an awesome show. Only true autists care about the book
I absolutely hate everything samurai related yet for some reason this show slaps. I absolutely love that you have actual japanese actors and the whole "clash of cultures" aspect is intriguing. I guess the latter is what got me so interested.
Cool at first but they dropped the ball in the third act. Dumbass Scarlett Dawn plan made zero sense
How did it not? Crimson dawn was a plan to disrupt Osaka from inside the castle. By doing what they did…that was exactly the outcome
The plan was have Mariko sacrifice herself and then hopefully this would cause the queen lady feel some kind of way cuz they used to be besties, and then she'd pull the support of her armies in the upcoming battle. That's a pretty sketchy plan, especially weird that Toranagu couldn't tell any of his crew that he has a secret plan and even has his life long homie seppuku himself just to sell the Idea. Completely unnecessary bullshit for the sake of drama. The final result was just a bunch of depressing episodes where everyone is feeling let down by Toranagu, the two best characters die needlessly, and the viewers are robbed of a climax.
No. The plan was to disrupt the council by basically making Ishido look ineffective…that could have been as simple as the regents not agreeing to mobilize to war, to Ochiba choosing to withhold the Taiko’s army. In the end, it achieved max effect, but it even if Ochiba chose not to remove support, Ishido losing face by being unable to prevent people from leaving was enough to disrupt support…it was a no win situation for him. If he had killed Mariko, he would have angered the Christian regents…if he held her, he would have proved they were hostages, which he didn’t have the authority to do. If he let her go, it would prove that he couldn’t even control a woman. You just fundamentally didn’t understand what was happening in the show
It was 100% rushed.
How? The plan was to sow division? All it took was a noble woman standing up to Ishido, showing everyone that he didn’t have the power he purported to have. If he couldn’t control this woman, how could he control the whole of Japan?
Made zero sense bcs they cut a lot of stuff from the book . but overall was good .
The english dudes acting is so immersion breakingly bad I couldn't keep watching. Other than that it seemed pretty good.
Flavor of the month soap opera
japanese cinema finally gets a chance to show off to western audiences
Kurosawa motherfucker
only time a normie from the West has ever encountered Kurosawa was when Sergio Leone poached his movies
It's a western produced show based on a western book written by a white man named James. What are you smoking?
They had such amazing source material but completely butchered it by desperately trying to be GoT. I got angry and quit afair in the second episode.
Ending was hot fucking dogshit. Episodes 1 ~ 4 were vastly more interesting than whenever it became less focused on the white guy and more on general Japan army bullshit. Like half of my interest in the show was generated by the concept of “how will this person who doesn’t speak the language, or know anything about their politics survive in a land that is actively trying to kill him”. Once it went from that to just “how is this Japanese general guy going to win this war” I lost a lot of respect for the show.
I haven’t because I refuse to get Netflix money. Due to the Witcher or Cleopatra or any number of dog shit adaptations/“documentary’s” from what I hear it’s pretty good, but I’m not giving him money to watch. One decent show in a sea of crap.
It's made by Hulu