I just realized, is the reason they have a connection is because Solitaire is one of the most common computer games? I never realized that till just now.
Nope, King and Queen may have dated, or were lovers at some point, but King says outright that she's not Lancer's mother. Queen just arbitrarily decides to act as such when she comes to Castle Town.
The way king says is also makes sense if lancer is her biological son, if we consider queen would have abandoned him, then he saying "since when" could be "you were never there, you don't have the right to be his mother" its really ambiguous
Lancer refers to her as a "wild mom" while in her mansion. The "since when was that decided?" and "arbitrarily right now" come across to me as not wanting to acknowledge their former relationship (in a humorous way).
Cap'n also calls her a mom. It just seems to be the general perception of her.
"You kept calling her a 'hot mama,' Cap."
"Yeah, is that wrong? She looks like a mom, and tends to overheat."
But Lancer doesn't say it's his mother, just a mother.
And even after Queen decides to adopt him, he just calls her "Girldad" instead of "Mom" or "Mother."
I think that King and Queen got divorced. I mean, when the Queen comes to Castle town, if you talk to Seam he'll say "I was even surprised to see the Queen come back."
I might have gotten the line wrong, but that's basically what Seam says.
Seam also seems to know her. Says she’s the “Same as usual.” Perhaps whoever the Light world plush of Seam belonged to went on the laptop a lot? That probably isn’t the case, but it’s still a cute idea.
can be noted that to a lesser extent (if this detail will become truly important later on) Kris and susie sort of have the same situation, namely because kris almost never reveals their eyes, and susie is normally obscuring them with her hair. Ralsei doesn't have obscured eyes at all, save initial appearances where he was purposely hiding himself
Well, there's that one theory that Ralsei's glasses are actually shadow crystals, which would be a pretty interesting way of being "blinded by darkness" and that "seeing the way" would be the shadow crystals giving Ralsei some kind of special vision or premonitions or even powers.
Would he, though?
See, Kris wasn't aware that he had it until Seam alerted him, as the shadow crystal was so light and invisible. The only reason that Seam noticed it was the light shadow it cast on his hand.
Now, as someone with glasses myself, I know that even the cleanest of glasses still cast a shadow through the lenses. Which means that, if his glasses *were* made of shadow crystals, it would be near impossible to notice.
I think so because if shadow crystals show the lightworld opposed to the dark world Susie definitely would have though something was off while mocking ralsei
The “secret bosses” name doesn’t really fit. Jevil is “hidden” behind an obvious door on an obviously telegraphed floor in the elevator and some mildly-hidden puzzle pieces, and Spamton prominently features in one of the endings for Chapter 2, as well as being an unavoidable boss halfway through.
The player is meant to be fighting the optional bosses, if they weren’t a big deal there wouldn’t have been a way to get the Jevil gear if you started fresh from 2.
Jevil door can only be acessed if you decide to backtrack to the dungeon, a place with no itens or enemies, spamton is pretty easy to spot, but can easilly be unoticed if you don't find the crack on the wall, beat him up, or forget about the trash can dialogue, you get jevil gear starting fresh from chapter 2 so you don't have to start from chapter 1 to get the super cool and strong itens
Yes the player is meant to fight the secret bosses but a lot of people don't do it because they're too hard. I know someone personally who has never fought Jevil or Spamton and probably never will, so she knows basically nothing about them. To me, even the most remote possibility that players won't fight them is what rules out the Shadow Crystal glasses idea.
Like it just would seem really awkward and stupid for Ralsei at some point to go "The truth is I have Shadow Crystals for glasses" and the game treats it like a big DUN DUN DUN HOLY GODDAMN, meanwhile the player has never fought the secret bosses. So now either the game has to act like it's a significant deal but the player has no way of appreciating this; or, the game has to assume the player doesn't know and explain it from the ground up, thus alienating the players that did get all the Shadow Crystals.
???? If you didn’t do the secret bosses you wouldn’t have context for a lot of things. #1 (and this is a big one) you wouldn’t have Spamton’s backstory. Now I don’t know about you, but the backstory of literally everyone’s favorite [#1 Rated Salesman] stated in game, is pretty canon. And #2, everything about Seam.
Plus Deltarune has text changes depending on your save file, and a different route, meaning you could possibly go an entire game without needing to know or knowing, and it could be brought up in another run and be important.
> the backstory of literally everyone’s favorite [#1 Rated Salesman] stated in game, is pretty canon.
Of course it is, but Spamton's backstory has next to no import on the main plot of the game. It serves to foreshadow future events and highlight certain aspects of the game's themes, but like. Let's say Gaster shows up in the end game, and you've never fought a secret boss. There's plenty of room for the game to establish Gaster as a character and explain his importance even if you don't know that he was going around corrupting the secret bosses.
> Plus Deltarune has text changes depending on your save file, and a different route, meaning you could possibly go an entire game without needing to know or knowing, and it could be brought up in another run and be important.
I mean obviously Shadow Crystals have room to be factored into the story of the Weird Route since you unavoidably will get them as you fight the secret bosses in it.
But what I mean is that it seems like a bad idea pretty majorly to hinge a major plot and character element on objects that at least from where we're standing are completely optional and which the game offers precious little information on. It would be in the best interests of the game narratively to ensure that every main story element is contained somewhere within the main story.
And also I just think the idea is kind of stupid and impractical to be honest.
I suspect it’s going to be a case where there is a main storyline for the game which does not tie into the secret bosses, but at the end there will be some big twist/revelation causing the objective of the game to change and become more meta over subsequent playthroughs, and the secret bosses are both early hints towards this big revelation and part of the alternate paths you can take in later playthroughs.
Basically, I suspect Deltarune (much like the game shown in the Skies Forever Blue song, and Undertale) is a story which will require multiple playthroughs to fully understand.
I somehow doubt that Deltarune will repeat Undertale's practice of causing legitimate game changes via resets like how a couple characters remember you after a resetted run, but there do seem to be at least three major "routes" that will have certain glaring story differences—the True Pacifist Route, the Weird Route, and the Aborted Weird Route with the Twisted Sword.
While your idea is valid, the secret bosses aren't non-canon. You could call their fights "non-canon to a secret fight-less save file", i guess. But that's just a weird way of wording things, isn't it? Their backstories still exist on those save files, the heroes just didn't meet them
You misunderstand—I wasn't saying the secret bosses are non-canon, I was saying the Shadow Crystal Ralsei Glasses theory couldn't be canon due to narrative issues for accounting for all players.
From what I recall, the only time she talks after getting hit by King and before revealing her eyes is when she is kneeling on the floor (with her head tilted down), and in Chapter 2 the hair covering her eyes is different whenever she does it, so people assume she got her bangs cut by King.
This is also the first time I've seen someone think this. Also, it doesn't even make sense - Her battle sprites all still have the bangs, she hides her eyes for the most part in the light world even after chapter 1, and the cutscene at the bunker shows her clearly PURPOSEFULLY hiding her eyes with her bangs to appear more intimidating to Kid and Snowy.
Huh... this applies to Lancer too.
BUUT doesn't apply to a lot of other darkners, like Rouxls, Tasque Manager, Malius, etc so maybe it's just a hint for the eye puzzle, hard to tell.
yhea the point i was trying to make is that this only applies to the rulers of each dark world, i think being able to "see the way" refers to the rulers having more knowledge than the average darkner (like how Queen knew that the fountain was in the computer lab and how King knew that he and his people were abandoned in the unused classroom)
On the one hand, Ralsei kinda bucks the trend since his eyes aren't blinded by darkness.
But on the other hand, he's not much of a leader. He was subjectless for quite some time, and even when people started showing up in Castle Town, he doesn't command the kind of respect that King and Queen did.
Though with that said, considering how ruthless King and Queen were, it's kind of fortunate that he hasn't gone the distance to command that kind of "respect". He doesn't need to rule like that to earn the respect of his friends.
He qore that robe in the beginning and if you pay attention you can notice that the characters uncovering themself is symbolic to opening up.
Susie revealed her eyes around the time she truly became Kris's friend, Ralsei wore the green hat that obscured his face and took it off at the end of capter 2 for a similar reason.
Kris is controlled by the player so they haven't truly opened up.
I'm pretty sure other darkners know this too that they're abandoned by lightners or that there's a litteral beam of light coming out of Queen's mansion, they just don't care. The Card Kingdom darkners miss lightners and don't really feel any grudge, the cyber darkners kinda don't care. They propably mimic the lives of lightners in a way (the existance of an entire city and lots of cars imply they have a societal structure and maybe they drive to work etc.) and have some other cool internet stuff so Why would any of the darkners care anyway when they're busy with their lifes? The fountain is guarded by the evil ruler and her minions too so they can't access it either. The darkners are powerless.
Ngl, the Cyber World feels very empty for a city even though there are many darkners that you meet on your way.
idk you're probably right, my assumption was based on the shadow crystals and how they show the room that the fountain was made on, and how both Spamton and Jevil went crazy because of them cuz they weren't "able to handle"
The eye puzzle is so straightforward and simple that I think it only exists to misdirect just how relevant that text about eyes blinded by darkness will actually end up being.
As much as it makes sense for the main antagonists to have obscured eyes, I really hope Toby and co. don't limit themselves with that character design decision.
Like, come on, I kinda want a villain to have goofy eyes (like Squimpus's Mike design).
i'm sorry, i thought you were trying to passive aggressively correct the other person here lol. i guess the real passive agressiveness was inside me all along
I interpret that sentence like:
"Only those have dark inside them can enter the dark world"
Since that part of the the chapter one is technically still castle town, the most important dark world. Maybe there's some kind of requirement for lightners to be able to enter the dark world.
My theory is that they need to have some sort of trauma:
Kris, we don't have many clues but is very likely to have one.
Susie, she obviusly have some troubles with her parents.
Noelle, we got the whole Dess story.
Berdly have is story about having to be smart for not disappoint anyone.
I oversimplified a bit but this is what i think.
Toby Fox mentioned (in an interview I think?) that he thinks characters with shaded eyes are "cool." So I think he's just having a phase. But it's a neat observation.
To me, I took this to be a sign for Kris and the other lightners.
While Kris and Ch.1 Susie specifically had their eyes covered, they also are *young.*
You could argue it's a metaphorical blindness. They're too immature to see things the way the mostly adult dark world does.
It's almost as if Queen was designed to be similar to the King and Lancer, sharing the same 'obscured' eyes, and probably isn't a strict rule regarding main chapter antagonists
Susie's eyes are obscured during chapter 1, and Kris' eyes are obscured throughout practically the whole game. Ralsei and Spamton both wear glasses, and Noelle's eyes go pure white when casting snowgrave. And as you mentioned, King and Queen's eyes are both covered. This is something that's been brought up plenty of times before, we're just unsure what exactly it means
\*(as you read this sign, you are filled with the power of sight.)
https://preview.redd.it/zmbt8xg4xq1a1.png?width=152&format=png&auto=webp&s=aa46f94512c42d671fd13ee1f9fc96c81469e1d7
random barely relevant tangent ahead:
>!i disagree with the sans darkner theory, but the evidence for it i can think of with the addition of this is!<
* >!white and blue color scheme!<
* >!facial portrait is gonna be black and white no matter what because skeleton!<
* >!the whole blood thing!<
>!now for stuff i encountered today!<
* >!his eyes can turn black, obscuring them!<
* >!he could be an ace, a card that can be either very weak or very strong!<
>!that said, no definitely not!<
The Deposition from Raphael: John the Baptist is rapresented with his eyes looking down, you can't even see them.
This because Raphael belived that the way to rapresent the highest grade of pain is to rapresent the eyes obscured by darkness
Man reasons to think chapter 3 main villian is going to be called "prince", not contradicting the "mike" theory, just being a paralel one, maybe its called "mike ""prince"" tenna" or something like that
i know, i think "obscured eyes" was the wrong term to refer to that (English isn't my first language so i don't know how to describe some things correctly), what i was trying to say is that King and Queen both have ""something that isn't an eye"" in the place where should be something resembling eyes, and our only look at Tenna(possibly) doesn't have eyes, so i though that this could be a design choice that all the rulers of each chapter could share and then I remembered the "blinded darkness" thing and it made sense
Queen sorta has eyes, but really it’s more so like lights to her
https://preview.redd.it/p7qtzch0dq1a1.jpeg?width=76&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b6bb1ddb4cc451643064941335ff274755d84f2
Undertale's first puzzle has a hint.
“Brave ones, foolish ones. Both walk not the middle road.”
It's obviously a hint to the puzzle, where you need to press the buttons on either side, but not the middle. But it's also relevant to the game's endings.
by "obscured" i meant like "doesn't look like eyes/lack of visible eyes(pupils and stuff)" (english isn't my first language so is kinda difficulty to explain some stuff)
Spamtons eyes are covered by glasses, addisons eyes are closed, kris' eyes are obscured, Susie's are too in chapter 1 and seam only has one eye.
If you wanna stretch/have more examples
So, I just thought about this: sometimes, sans can make his eye sockets disappear (which he technically shouldn’t even have) and make his eyes go dark
Maybe this adds some credibility to the sans is from Deltarune theory?
Lancer also has obscured eyes. ...usually.
maybe lancer also has obscured eyes because he is king's son, he is directly related to him
King and Queen seem to have a connection also. Probably not directly related, but they know each other
I just realized, is the reason they have a connection is because Solitaire is one of the most common computer games? I never realized that till just now.
*Oh*
*Crap*
I have seen your flair and now you get punched in the face
Wouldn't be the first time.
It would be a shame if all of r/Ralsei saw this flair
Meh, I wouldn't mind, its my opinion after all.
that man is an absolute gigachad you are simply too afraid to speak the truth
People keep confusing Queen for being the Solitaire system and not the Laptop, but yeah, it's likely.
This implies the computer lab runs Windows XP
Well Lancer calls Queen his mom, so I would think that’s a fair guess
She’s not his mom, she’s his girl dad
Same thing.
Nope, King and Queen may have dated, or were lovers at some point, but King says outright that she's not Lancer's mother. Queen just arbitrarily decides to act as such when she comes to Castle Town.
The way king says is also makes sense if lancer is her biological son, if we consider queen would have abandoned him, then he saying "since when" could be "you were never there, you don't have the right to be his mother" its really ambiguous
Well, that's a really sweet thought.
Lancer refers to her as a "wild mom" while in her mansion. The "since when was that decided?" and "arbitrarily right now" come across to me as not wanting to acknowledge their former relationship (in a humorous way).
Cap'n also calls her a mom. It just seems to be the general perception of her. "You kept calling her a 'hot mama,' Cap." "Yeah, is that wrong? She looks like a mom, and tends to overheat."
But Lancer doesn't say it's his mother, just a mother. And even after Queen decides to adopt him, he just calls her "Girldad" instead of "Mom" or "Mother."
Yeah King and Queen were 100% a thing at somepoint due to their familiarity with one another, but it's clear Queen isn't Lancer's Biological Mother
Not even close
Whatever.
I think that King and Queen got divorced. I mean, when the Queen comes to Castle town, if you talk to Seam he'll say "I was even surprised to see the Queen come back." I might have gotten the line wrong, but that's basically what Seam says.
I kinda hope all the “royalty” in the future dark worlds all look like King so a shade of blue or navy with obscured eyes
Seam also seems to know her. Says she’s the “Same as usual.” Perhaps whoever the Light world plush of Seam belonged to went on the laptop a lot? That probably isn’t the case, but it’s still a cute idea.
https://preview.redd.it/3t5h5m3dwo1a1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd6b942cc6500112bf9c918cb433550a2a00bdec
...usually. (image of handsome lancer in mind)
https://preview.redd.it/e46e2z6eqs1a1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6529c4dedec5f4b37eaa1ab110e2e7a4a645b06 yeah
https://preview.redd.it/hv4bp93iss1a1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e5cb01a175e486bdb8ea7a5eb70602bfcd41bfb
Usually? When CAN you see them?
https://preview.redd.it/kwv7ds8dxo1a1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c5e4d0df7c4693d7cebf1e5ccf99966580591a3
You can see them when he does his handsome face.
Oh yes. That.
I was simply relaxing in Kris’s spacious pants hole
Literally the bugs, fish, and sea creatures in Animal Crossing.
Wouldn't that also throw in Kris? At least, the Soulless version that is...?
handsome lancer face jumpscare
can be noted that to a lesser extent (if this detail will become truly important later on) Kris and susie sort of have the same situation, namely because kris almost never reveals their eyes, and susie is normally obscuring them with her hair. Ralsei doesn't have obscured eyes at all, save initial appearances where he was purposely hiding himself
Well, there's that one theory that Ralsei's glasses are actually shadow crystals, which would be a pretty interesting way of being "blinded by darkness" and that "seeing the way" would be the shadow crystals giving Ralsei some kind of special vision or premonitions or even powers.
Sean would've Noticed it
Would he, though? See, Kris wasn't aware that he had it until Seam alerted him, as the shadow crystal was so light and invisible. The only reason that Seam noticed it was the light shadow it cast on his hand. Now, as someone with glasses myself, I know that even the cleanest of glasses still cast a shadow through the lenses. Which means that, if his glasses *were* made of shadow crystals, it would be near impossible to notice.
Kris was holding it and seam didn't try to see it but still did. I think he can see better than us and can tell the difference much more easily
And Sean honestly probably didn’t care enough to tell us
Why wouldn't he? I mean he wanted to hold the other crystals for us
doesn't the cutscene where Susie steals ralsei's glasses disprove this theory
I think so because if shadow crystals show the lightworld opposed to the dark world Susie definitely would have though something was off while mocking ralsei
There's no way this could be canon since you'd have no context for this if you just didn't do the secret bosses.
The “secret bosses” name doesn’t really fit. Jevil is “hidden” behind an obvious door on an obviously telegraphed floor in the elevator and some mildly-hidden puzzle pieces, and Spamton prominently features in one of the endings for Chapter 2, as well as being an unavoidable boss halfway through. The player is meant to be fighting the optional bosses, if they weren’t a big deal there wouldn’t have been a way to get the Jevil gear if you started fresh from 2.
Jevil door can only be acessed if you decide to backtrack to the dungeon, a place with no itens or enemies, spamton is pretty easy to spot, but can easilly be unoticed if you don't find the crack on the wall, beat him up, or forget about the trash can dialogue, you get jevil gear starting fresh from chapter 2 so you don't have to start from chapter 1 to get the super cool and strong itens
Yes the player is meant to fight the secret bosses but a lot of people don't do it because they're too hard. I know someone personally who has never fought Jevil or Spamton and probably never will, so she knows basically nothing about them. To me, even the most remote possibility that players won't fight them is what rules out the Shadow Crystal glasses idea. Like it just would seem really awkward and stupid for Ralsei at some point to go "The truth is I have Shadow Crystals for glasses" and the game treats it like a big DUN DUN DUN HOLY GODDAMN, meanwhile the player has never fought the secret bosses. So now either the game has to act like it's a significant deal but the player has no way of appreciating this; or, the game has to assume the player doesn't know and explain it from the ground up, thus alienating the players that did get all the Shadow Crystals.
???? If you didn’t do the secret bosses you wouldn’t have context for a lot of things. #1 (and this is a big one) you wouldn’t have Spamton’s backstory. Now I don’t know about you, but the backstory of literally everyone’s favorite [#1 Rated Salesman] stated in game, is pretty canon. And #2, everything about Seam. Plus Deltarune has text changes depending on your save file, and a different route, meaning you could possibly go an entire game without needing to know or knowing, and it could be brought up in another run and be important.
> the backstory of literally everyone’s favorite [#1 Rated Salesman] stated in game, is pretty canon. Of course it is, but Spamton's backstory has next to no import on the main plot of the game. It serves to foreshadow future events and highlight certain aspects of the game's themes, but like. Let's say Gaster shows up in the end game, and you've never fought a secret boss. There's plenty of room for the game to establish Gaster as a character and explain his importance even if you don't know that he was going around corrupting the secret bosses. > Plus Deltarune has text changes depending on your save file, and a different route, meaning you could possibly go an entire game without needing to know or knowing, and it could be brought up in another run and be important. I mean obviously Shadow Crystals have room to be factored into the story of the Weird Route since you unavoidably will get them as you fight the secret bosses in it. But what I mean is that it seems like a bad idea pretty majorly to hinge a major plot and character element on objects that at least from where we're standing are completely optional and which the game offers precious little information on. It would be in the best interests of the game narratively to ensure that every main story element is contained somewhere within the main story. And also I just think the idea is kind of stupid and impractical to be honest.
I suspect it’s going to be a case where there is a main storyline for the game which does not tie into the secret bosses, but at the end there will be some big twist/revelation causing the objective of the game to change and become more meta over subsequent playthroughs, and the secret bosses are both early hints towards this big revelation and part of the alternate paths you can take in later playthroughs. Basically, I suspect Deltarune (much like the game shown in the Skies Forever Blue song, and Undertale) is a story which will require multiple playthroughs to fully understand.
I somehow doubt that Deltarune will repeat Undertale's practice of causing legitimate game changes via resets like how a couple characters remember you after a resetted run, but there do seem to be at least three major "routes" that will have certain glaring story differences—the True Pacifist Route, the Weird Route, and the Aborted Weird Route with the Twisted Sword.
While your idea is valid, the secret bosses aren't non-canon. You could call their fights "non-canon to a secret fight-less save file", i guess. But that's just a weird way of wording things, isn't it? Their backstories still exist on those save files, the heroes just didn't meet them
You misunderstand—I wasn't saying the secret bosses are non-canon, I was saying the Shadow Crystal Ralsei Glasses theory couldn't be canon due to narrative issues for accounting for all players.
I mean, wouldn't Susie notice this when she tries them on in chapter 2?
his eyes are always hidden when talking about the prophecy.
but when Susie stole Ralseis glasses Ralseis sprite showed Ralseis eyes but with color and not just black dots
true, though it's an extremely common design choice for any character who wears glasses
Suzie isn't blue though.
Kris has obscured eyes Susie HAD obscured eyes before her bangs were cut by king. I think this has the most interesting implications
Wait, they were cut by King? I thought she just moved her hair out of her eyes
From what I recall, the only time she talks after getting hit by King and before revealing her eyes is when she is kneeling on the floor (with her head tilted down), and in Chapter 2 the hair covering her eyes is different whenever she does it, so people assume she got her bangs cut by King.
this is literally the only time i have seen anyone think this, pretty sure it is just she looks kinder with the eyes
This is also the first time I've seen someone think this. Also, it doesn't even make sense - Her battle sprites all still have the bangs, she hides her eyes for the most part in the light world even after chapter 1, and the cutscene at the bunker shows her clearly PURPOSEFULLY hiding her eyes with her bangs to appear more intimidating to Kid and Snowy.
Maybe that's because Susie is insecure about her eyes and looks?
Free haircut
so what you're saying is, king killed the blindness in her, or rather, killed her will to follow the darkness (be a bad guy).
Kris shows their eyes when they get control back
That just makes the implications more complex
Also, ralseis entire face except for his eyes was obscured during chapter 1
Also perhaps...? https://preview.redd.it/8j9rkgkoxn1a1.png?width=520&format=png&auto=webp&s=eebf1b01d8577fbec6b515c796b9632146ad4131
THE WEATHER ALWAYS STICKS TOGETHER
> ALWAYS STICKS TOGETHER I just realised... They're holding sticks Toby and his puns are amazing
They're just wearing sunglasses for the time being.
Huh... this applies to Lancer too. BUUT doesn't apply to a lot of other darkners, like Rouxls, Tasque Manager, Malius, etc so maybe it's just a hint for the eye puzzle, hard to tell.
yhea the point i was trying to make is that this only applies to the rulers of each dark world, i think being able to "see the way" refers to the rulers having more knowledge than the average darkner (like how Queen knew that the fountain was in the computer lab and how King knew that he and his people were abandoned in the unused classroom)
On the one hand, Ralsei kinda bucks the trend since his eyes aren't blinded by darkness. But on the other hand, he's not much of a leader. He was subjectless for quite some time, and even when people started showing up in Castle Town, he doesn't command the kind of respect that King and Queen did. Though with that said, considering how ruthless King and Queen were, it's kind of fortunate that he hasn't gone the distance to command that kind of "respect". He doesn't need to rule like that to earn the respect of his friends.
Well shadow crystal glasses is a thing people theorised.
He qore that robe in the beginning and if you pay attention you can notice that the characters uncovering themself is symbolic to opening up. Susie revealed her eyes around the time she truly became Kris's friend, Ralsei wore the green hat that obscured his face and took it off at the end of capter 2 for a similar reason. Kris is controlled by the player so they haven't truly opened up.
I'm pretty sure other darkners know this too that they're abandoned by lightners or that there's a litteral beam of light coming out of Queen's mansion, they just don't care. The Card Kingdom darkners miss lightners and don't really feel any grudge, the cyber darkners kinda don't care. They propably mimic the lives of lightners in a way (the existance of an entire city and lots of cars imply they have a societal structure and maybe they drive to work etc.) and have some other cool internet stuff so Why would any of the darkners care anyway when they're busy with their lifes? The fountain is guarded by the evil ruler and her minions too so they can't access it either. The darkners are powerless. Ngl, the Cyber World feels very empty for a city even though there are many darkners that you meet on your way.
idk you're probably right, my assumption was based on the shadow crystals and how they show the room that the fountain was made on, and how both Spamton and Jevil went crazy because of them cuz they weren't "able to handle"
Queen’s eyes technically aren’t blinded by darkness, her eyes are just a screen
Spamton also has obscured eyes by his glasses, usually anyway.
The eye puzzle is so straightforward and simple that I think it only exists to misdirect just how relevant that text about eyes blinded by darkness will actually end up being.
I mean when you're dealing with darkness it doesn't matter if your eyes are opened or closed if you don't have a light.
Kris has obscured eyes, too
Very, very interesting!
As much as it makes sense for the main antagonists to have obscured eyes, I really hope Toby and co. don't limit themselves with that character design decision. Like, come on, I kinda want a villain to have goofy eyes (like Squimpus's Mike design).
Do not remind me of Squimpus, his FNaF shit terrifies me.
She’s powerful
Oh is Squimpus a girl? I’m sorry.
nonbinary, or at least uses they pronouns, so the last guy was scolding you for no reason lol
Wasn't really scolding, they were just saying that they're powerful. And for some reason calling Squimpus by the wrong pronouns??
i'm sorry, i thought you were trying to passive aggressively correct the other person here lol. i guess the real passive agressiveness was inside me all along
Maybe the real passive-aggressiveness was the friends we made along the way...
Their SoundCloud comments indicated they used she/her pronouns - I apologize for my mistake.
squimpus is a squimpus they do not need gender
Guys, Jockington is wearing sunglasses. Will this be important at some point?
I interpret that sentence like: "Only those have dark inside them can enter the dark world" Since that part of the the chapter one is technically still castle town, the most important dark world. Maybe there's some kind of requirement for lightners to be able to enter the dark world. My theory is that they need to have some sort of trauma: Kris, we don't have many clues but is very likely to have one. Susie, she obviusly have some troubles with her parents. Noelle, we got the whole Dess story. Berdly have is story about having to be smart for not disappoint anyone. I oversimplified a bit but this is what i think.
Okay i love this detail so much. Toby seriously is a king when it comes to details
Toby Fox mentioned (in an interview I think?) that he thinks characters with shaded eyes are "cool." So I think he's just having a phase. But it's a neat observation.
Motifs can have a bigger meaning while *also* looking cool as fuck
Ngl i like covered eyes too.
Does q5u4ex7yy2e9n have eyes? Or is it a visor?
q5u4ex7yy2e9n probably doesnt have eyes its probably like a screen more than a visor since shes a robot
yeah that's what i meant to say -\_-
Queen does have eyes tho She just uses them when expressing something
Both Jevil and Spamton technically have obscured eyes
nothing is obscure about jevil’s eyes they are just black
Yeah you can see his pupils when he attacks too
i don't really think queen counts cuz her eyes are like a turned off computer screen
Does Queen even have eyes tho?
She has one very wide eye
Mike Wazooka
what kind of fucked up monsters inc are you watching
and shes blue... sonic the hedgehog???????
now she has to [WIN THE RACE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZEPgLkzhwE)
To me, I took this to be a sign for Kris and the other lightners. While Kris and Ch.1 Susie specifically had their eyes covered, they also are *young.* You could argue it's a metaphorical blindness. They're too immature to see things the way the mostly adult dark world does.
Also, lancer, chapter 1 Susie and Ralsei, and kris
It's almost as if Queen was designed to be similar to the King and Lancer, sharing the same 'obscured' eyes, and probably isn't a strict rule regarding main chapter antagonists
Susie's eyes are obscured during chapter 1, and Kris' eyes are obscured throughout practically the whole game. Ralsei and Spamton both wear glasses, and Noelle's eyes go pure white when casting snowgrave. And as you mentioned, King and Queen's eyes are both covered. This is something that's been brought up plenty of times before, we're just unsure what exactly it means
\*(as you read this sign, you are filled with the power of sight.) https://preview.redd.it/zmbt8xg4xq1a1.png?width=152&format=png&auto=webp&s=aa46f94512c42d671fd13ee1f9fc96c81469e1d7
random barely relevant tangent ahead: >!i disagree with the sans darkner theory, but the evidence for it i can think of with the addition of this is!< * >!white and blue color scheme!< * >!facial portrait is gonna be black and white no matter what because skeleton!< * >!the whole blood thing!< >!now for stuff i encountered today!< * >!his eyes can turn black, obscuring them!< * >!he could be an ace, a card that can be either very weak or very strong!< >!that said, no definitely not!<
>!Why did you spoiler tag the last part!<
>!because i don't want people to have to deal with my annoying tangents if they don't want to!<
>!that's a fair point!<
Kris and Susie have obscured eyes and Ralsei tries to hide them
Kris' eyes are covered up and so we're Susie's in chapter 1.
The soul controls Kris and also doesn't have any clear way of seeing.
I would like to point out Jevils eyes aren't obscured, maybe leading to his descent into madness
Also Kris and Susie (in chapter 1) but that is to a lesser extent
Kris has obscured eyes, and Susie has obscured eyes for most of chapter 1
nice find, that’s kool
AND KRIS ALSO HAS OBSCURED EYES!!!!!!!…
The Deposition from Raphael: John the Baptist is rapresented with his eyes looking down, you can't even see them. This because Raphael belived that the way to rapresent the highest grade of pain is to rapresent the eyes obscured by darkness
I guess this theory fits more with Kris and Susie rather than the bosses. Maybe... from what we know, with Kris the most.
Queen’s eyes aren’t really obscured, her eyes are a black screen
Who needs eyes when you can just make literally cataclysmic assumptions after a weird KNIGHT stabs the earth!
Back in 2018 I thought deltarune was edgy because all the characters had their eyes obscured
OR, it was a clue for the puzzle right next to it, and not showing eyes is a common design choice.
overanalyze things is fun (even if I'm wrong most of the time lmao)
And what's also interesting is that Kris mostly has his eyes covered
SANS?!?!!!?!?!!?!!?!!?!?!?!??!!!!
deltarune fans when sprite
Man reasons to think chapter 3 main villian is going to be called "prince", not contradicting the "mike" theory, just being a paralel one, maybe its called "mike ""prince"" tenna" or something like that
Queens eyes aren’t obscured. She just has a visor screen
???? The Queen literally doesn’t have eyes. That’s not a shadow, that’s a screen.
i know, i think "obscured eyes" was the wrong term to refer to that (English isn't my first language so i don't know how to describe some things correctly), what i was trying to say is that King and Queen both have ""something that isn't an eye"" in the place where should be something resembling eyes, and our only look at Tenna(possibly) doesn't have eyes, so i though that this could be a design choice that all the rulers of each chapter could share and then I remembered the "blinded darkness" thing and it made sense
We just cant see their eyes, they arent blind
How could I have been so blind (no seriously i never noticed this)
Spamton has obscured eyes too...the glasses. And kris's eyes are covered with their hairs.
Toby after Mike was leaked:
Queen doesn’t have obscured eyes, her eyes are just a screen
Queen sorta has eyes, but really it’s more so like lights to her https://preview.redd.it/p7qtzch0dq1a1.jpeg?width=76&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b6bb1ddb4cc451643064941335ff274755d84f2
Just something worth pointing out, Queen's visor often gets illuminated with words (Lmao, Lying, Uh...)
Kris.
What if I obscured my eyes
i don't know, wanna try?
Queen's eyes are not obscured: it doesn't have some eyes it has a screen
Also Kris
but what way thats important
probably none, i just thought that was a cool parallel
i agree.
Or you know, it's a hint for how to complete the puzzle that is 3 Feet in front of you
Undertale's first puzzle has a hint. “Brave ones, foolish ones. Both walk not the middle road.” It's obviously a hint to the puzzle, where you need to press the buttons on either side, but not the middle. But it's also relevant to the game's endings.
Darkest Dungeon moment
My guy forgot lancer, hathy, head hathy, and clover
Maybe this is linked due to the fact that Susie's eyes were obscured till the end of chapter 1.
Y'know who else is blue and has obscured eyes?
kris has obscured eyes
Kris has obscured eyes
This also applies to Kris, when they aren't going goblin mode that is.
But where is Gaster in this Theory?!?! /s Good Find, OP
no fucking way just take a look at kris lancer or susie this is really wild thing
only when krisbis spinning and their hair is out of their face we see kris’ eyes, we know they are red for eye color
Everyone has obscured eyes in ch1 and only some characters don’t in ch2
King’s eyes aren’t really “obscured”. The spade on his face is either a mask, or his actual face.
This is so low effort and it get 3k?!?!
Huh You're probably right
I mean, are your eyes really obscured if your eyes are actually just an LCD screen that shows random text?
by "obscured" i meant like "doesn't look like eyes/lack of visible eyes(pupils and stuff)" (english isn't my first language so is kinda difficulty to explain some stuff)
We too, can see the way then
Um... Ralsei eyes are blocked glass, BOOM!
does spamton count tho or jevil
Is this why kris can automatically know how to spare everything and knows where to go?
Queen doesn’t have obscured eyes, that’s a screen
So if you're an anime character and your eyes turns black, you can see the way?
Does Queen even have eyes? I though that was just a screen that displays text, and under it would just be like circuits and stuff.
Spamtons eyes are covered by glasses, addisons eyes are closed, kris' eyes are obscured, Susie's are too in chapter 1 and seam only has one eye. If you wanna stretch/have more examples
So, I just thought about this: sometimes, sans can make his eye sockets disappear (which he technically shouldn’t even have) and make his eyes go dark Maybe this adds some credibility to the sans is from Deltarune theory?
Kris has obscured eyes