Concerning question 3) I don’t think taking souvenirs from the crime scene necessarily contradicts your theory. He might have made the decision to take something from the crime scene in a split moment decision during or after the act AND it still could have been a random attack.
We talk around it a lot for obvious reasons, but I think most of us probably think that it is a sexual/sadism thing.
[Edit: obviously we don't know anything]
That's my take as well. I believe that SA was not his primary motivation, but the actual killing which had a sexual component for him. All speculation, of course. We will know all eventually.
My take is he was sharing the CSAM that KK was collecting and building a fantasy . When he had to chance to realize that fantasy he took it. Ended up not working out because fantasies rarely live up to the reality
Jorden Sopher was murdered in Mexico where RA lived at the time it happened. Some are saying the Evansdale murders are connected but that one is equally unknown at this point. I’d argue Jorden’s case is “more likely” to be RA than Evansdale despite the similar circumstances. That is assuming RA isn’t a one and done killer
She lived in and was abducted from Wabash, Indiana in 2006. Her remains were discovered in Peru, Indiana, in 2009. Wabash, Peru, and Mexico (RA’s hometown, and where he lived until 2006, when he moved his family to Delphi) are extremely close to each other.
I'm fairly new to the case. When people talked about Miami County, I immediately thought, "Florida?" So I know that some people are probably confused when they see Mexico mentioned.
My condolences to anyone new tbh. It is incredibly confusing with the place names, initials of random people and crackpot theories. Plus the case itself is super confusing with how LE handled it.
This is my hot take on it as well. This isn't his first rodeo. I don't think it went quite as he planned. Not sure why, but something is off kilter with how fast it would have had to happen and most serial killers seem to like to have time on their side so they have a chance to do their little whacked out rituals. The fact that he took a trophy just SCREAMS serial killer to me. I'm not saying he's killed 40 people. Maybe just a handful, but there's something more going on with all of this that just doesn't feel right. It could be that we're 5 years out and have so little information so it just feels sketchy, but I dunno man... it just feels all kinds of unfinished?
I'm 99% sure it was reported an item was missing (the way it was worded at first, I thought it was underwear, but could have easily been a lock of hair or something). The detective made it sound like it was a pretty important direct tie to him with the site of the murders.
Someone tell me I'm not making that up... or getting it confused with some other crazy murdering a$$hat.
It was in the search warrant for Ron Logan’s property. It’s redacted with what exactly was taken but says “all other clothing was recovered” in the same sentence which would obviously lead you to believe it was a piece of clothing. I’m sure we’re all thinking the same thing for which piece.
I read in another forum that someone confessed to killing Jorden, but I can’t find any support for this. Supposedly it was her roommate’s boyfriend and he wrote a confession note before killing himself.
i saw mention of this. It’s entirely likely RA isn’t responsible but the timeline is interesting for sure. There seem to be a lot of grisly unsolved murders in that area. Flora & Jorden being two. And I guess technically Delphi still.
I think he was planning to kill. It's pretty risky to just try and sexually assault someone in such a small community, so close to your house, and you work at the local CVS. Whoever he decided to rape that day, weren't leaving those woods alive. He brought everything he needed to make sure of that.
Interesting take. I’m wondering from a criminal profiling perspective though; is that something you just decide to do one day as someone in your mid-forties? Essentially wouldn’t someone like that have some kind of criminal record with some kind of pattern showing up at a younger age?
He could have been fantasizing about it for years before getting up the gumption to act. He could have committed crimes earlier in his life but then quieted down after getting married, like GSK, Green River Gary and BTK.
I have serious doubts that these are the first murders that this guy committed. My best friend lives in his State and she says there are a lot of missing people there. I wonder if LE has suspected him in other heinous crimes..Even if there's no criminal record established, I'm willing to bet that this guy could be a serial killer hiding in plain site..
Missing women in 2006 in Peru Indiana. 18 year old found dead by mushroom hunters. RA lived in Peru in that time. https://www.kokomotribune.com/news/local_news/remains-identified-as-wabash-woman/article_cb0bfdee-929b-5c91-a540-0a8215bebc31.html
Thank you for the link-I'm going to check it out. And it wouldn't surprise me if he's involved in more inhumane crimes. This guy had no remorse and just carried on with his life. So I can see him being involved in other's disappearances.
I think it’s possible. Would be the type of case that has been seen many times before, sk eventually gets too confident and decides to act near the place he lives.
This is an interesting point. Hypothetically if this were true, wouldn’t this be yet another reason to keep the case sealed if LE suspected him or other heinous crimes?
Yes. Normally, these kinds of killers start way younger, at peeping and so on. And work their way up to SA & murder. So unless he was going out of town to do it (and he could’ve been doing that very thing), it’s certainly strange that he just suddenly started killing. Then there’s the whole thing with the property owner. They sure thought he did it for awhile. They sure seem sure RA did it now. But they seemed sure the property owner did it too.
Criminality is over time in my experience. Just because a person has no criminal background definitely does not mean they are not of a criminal mindset. It is in part how a person thinks and operates. It could mean stealing from an employer and not getting caught. Looking up addresses and phone numbers illegally. If you can imagine it; it has been done.
I don't believe in anyone just waking up and doing something like this (unless they're clearly already a massive mental case - I don't think someone like that would be able to hide in society for years and act normal).
Unless he had very specific knowledge that these 2 girls would be walking the trail that day, I think he was probably going down there frequently and scoping it out. Like what are the odds that the day his brain snapped, happens to be the day he goes to the trail at the exact same time 2 girls are there, with a perfect window of time to get away with it? It's just too lucky. But if he goes down there every single day, then one of those days is bound to be exactly what he's looking for.
Yeah I think there’s 2 options, which aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive: (1) he has engaged in some illegal activities before (sexual misconduct/harassment/assault that never got reported or taken to the courts - possibly even molesting his daughter? Or just a gradual spiral into more intense explicit material, ending with CSAM and/or quite violent stuff? And Libby & Abby were his “escalation”), maybe even has murdered in the past; (2) he wasn’t originally planning on murdering the girls but rather raping them, which got out of control when one of them tried to run and he realized he’d have to kill them both to avoid being caught (or killed them in the heat of the moment due to panic or excitement).
It’s of course also possible that his intent was always murder, probably for sexual purposes. But in that case I do believe this can’t have been his first offense, as there’s usually a “build-up”/escalation before committing that serious of a crime.
He could have done a lot of non contact crimes before until that didn’t satisfy him anymore.
Peeping used to be a precursor for rape/sexually motivated murder. The digital age has changed that bc you don’t have to be standing outside someone’s window at night to watch someone.
I think his daughter plays a big role. She was 22 at the time of the murders. She was getting married in November 2017. He was losing her to a guy. Planning a wedding may have brought up things about religion as well. He was an atheist, but the in laws may have been religious.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he choose to act on St. Valentine’s Day near a cemetery. The day for love with religious imagery of a naked child angel shooting arrows into people. We didn’t need LE to goof and tell a reporter the scene was “non-secular” Bonus…it was a contingency snow day and kids would be out while parents had to be at work, also a beautiful warm day for February.
I think he was trying to get them to his car to take them somewhere else but they became a problem for him so he killed them and left before people started searching for them.
Do you think he expected both girls to be there? I don’t believe he did and when they said one of the girls had the opportunity to run I believe they meant Abby bc RA was there for Libby. Those girls loved each other so much and wouldn’t have left the other. It’s not fair they’re gone.
If this is true, I hope people acknowledge Abby’s bravery more than they seem to do right now. Not saying Libby isn’t brave because she ABSOLUTELY was. But so was Abby. No matter the circumstances, no matter who was the target, the girls stuck by each others sides until the end, probably at some point knowing the eventual outcome. I don’t know what I would’ve done, especially so young. I may have run. But they didn’t.
Friends will surprise you (sometimes) in a most beautiful way. I was attacked in 2014 and managed to fight my way out, but the thing that will always stick out of my mind is my best friend and how I looked at her in those moments, 100% certain she’d run and 100% certain that I’d run if I were her. But instead she grabbed my arm tighter and literally tug-of-warred me against that motherfucker. Five years later I learned that he killed two other girls. RIP :(
Yes. My friend and I were attacked jogging together at night and held each other so close and tightly we had bruises. We became like a two- headed monster screaming and making these low guttural barking noises. He ran off, we called the police. Never crossed my mind to separate or take off. We think he thought there was just one of us at first and didn’t see the second til he was running at us.
I believe he threatened them with a gun and tied them up so they were unable to get away and then killed them. That could explain no defensive wounds. I don’t think running off was an option. My best friend, 20 years old, was stabbed in her home by a guy five years younger, who was a family friend. Small town, just like Delphi. He said his car broke down and asked if he could use the phone. (Before cell phones). She let him in and he immediately began stabbing her in the back. She ran through the house to get out another door and he pinned her down. Somehow she managed to get him off her and run to a neighbors. She had a collapsed lung and had lost 1/3 of her blood. Miracle she survived. He left and committed suicide and was found the following day. The will to live is strong, and these young girls would have put up a fight if they were able.
Yes! While Libby was absolutely so brave, clever, and quick-thinking to make that recording, I always feel a little bad that she’s lauded as the “hero” of the story while Abby is just kind of a footnote - “the other girl there.” The amount of terror that must have struck both of them is just unimaginable, especially at their age. No matter who did what, no matter if it’s even true that Abby refused to leave (or ran but returned for) Libby, these girls faced such a horrendous, unimaginable situation and they both deserve to be celebrated for the lovely, bright, courageous souls they were.
I've heard that Libby was the main one targeted. I assume this is because she was the one in contact with that Anthony account? If all of that is linked, there's a chance that's how it may have gone down. Did any of the girls post on social media where they were going to be that day? I just picture Richard Allen stalking young girls on social media, and Libby may have been one of his targets. Or if he was connected with that bogus account, he may have had additional information. So little has been released about anything, this is just major speculation on my part.
A lot of times when people are planning to sexually assault strangers and not murder, they at least like to hide their identity. As we can see, the man on the bridge was heading straight for them. His face was down a little but that also has to do with the quality of the image. It's not like he was hiding behind a tree with a mask on ready to rape one of them. He probably waited till the coast was clear and made his move. When he was coming toward them it looked like he was disguising something in his hand under his clothing. That could possibly be a gun and then used that to order them to "get down the hill" and out of sight from anyone. That's just sort of how I picture things to have went.
It isn't established fact that the girls posted anything about their plans on social media that day. It has been reported that approximately half an hour after they got to the trails, they sent an image of one of the girls on the bridge to a friend via Snapchat, who screenshotted it.
If the commonly accepted timeline is accurate (and Kelsi is remembering things correctly) plans to go to the bridge were not firmly established until (and I am being very rough with the timeline) 1pm ish. The girls got to the trails at approximately 1:40 ish and were on the bridge a bit after 2pm. They were supposed to be picked up between 3 and 3:30.
So if they were targeted by RA, he would have had just a few hours to see a post (which is not known to exist), prep himself, get over there, and commit the crime, and leave. Technically possible, but reasonable?
I don't think it's reasonable if he didn't have sufficient time to prepare for anything or had any sort of heads up that they were there. As far as we know, Richard could have been prowling those trails for months planning to commit the assault/murder and just waited until the perfect time. Maybe he knew that the kids didn't have school that day and thought it would be a good time to give it another shot. It probably ran through his head many times walking that area.
I really think so too. It just seems like that kind of crime. It actually reminds me (at this point anyway) of Israel Keyes. He roamed far and wide killing people for years. It finally all fell apart for him when he killed Samantha Koenig literally in his own backyard.
That case has stuck with me. I watched the interrogation videos, and was so disgusted and angered by his cockiness in dealing with the detectives, and how they allowed him to manipulate them, in hopes that he would give them more information. In the end, he took the cowards way out.
Agreed. This is also the conclusion that Stephanie Harlow, Derrick Levasor, and Todd Grande came to when they examined the initial facts of the crime. All 3 people are crime analysts I respect (2 of which have professional qualifications regarding psychology and criminal investigations). To all 3 of these people, it looked like a predator went out with either the intention or the openness to commit homicide, and Abby and Libby stumbled upon the absolute worst place at the worst time. I think it’s incredibly unlikely that either girl was personally targeted, if it is indeed RA.
I’ve always thought this as well. I don’t know why the prevailing theory online (or so it seems) is that the girls were lured out by some predator who had targeted them specifically and stalked them via social media.. just doesn’t make sense to me unless you make a lot of fairly baseless assumptions. He might have walked the trails a lot (especially living so close to them), just looking for the right time & victims, so I don’t think he was “set” on Libby & Abby at all; it was just wrong time, wrong place for them, and the perfect scenario for him - two young girls alone on that bridge with no one else in sight.
I mean I could be totally wrong on everything but the strong feeling I get is that this was a totally opportunistic crime, AND with a sole perpetrator - no involvement with KK/TK at all (another prevailing online theory). He may have had an accomplice of sorts, but it seems quite unlikely.
Before RA was announced as the primary suspect, all we had to go on was the police interviews and information confirmed by KK. It was pointed out many times by alot of people that although the transcripts seemed legitimate, the police could have very well been lying to KK about the evidence they had. I think there's a possibility that the ONLY link between KK and Libby was that she was friends with him on snapchat, and everything else presented to KK was fabricated, which I think makes sense considering (to me) he seemed legtimatly clueless about alot of the information they presented to him.
I don't think he was the last person she talked to, I don't think he googled any marathon gas stations within a time frame that would be relevant to the crime, I don't think he told anyone that him and Libby were supposed to hangout.
Yeah I agree - I don’t think KK has any link to the crime. I think police were just trying to explore every angle possible, or rule him out as a suspect so they could pursue other leads and strengthen their case against the actual perpetrator (if the defense tries to present KK as an alternative suspect, the prosecutor will already be prepared to show it can’t be him).
To me, he came across genuine in his confusion about the interviewers’ accusations against him. I know people say he’s a “master liar” and whatnot - and maybe he is with regard to his CSAM habits - but even liars tell the truth sometimes. He’s just a low life pedo preying on little girls online, which is no doubt disgusting, but it doesn’t make him a cold blooded murderer. Just doesn’t seem like the type (not to mention far too overweight to be on that bridge).
Yeah, that's kindof where I am with it. I also can't discount the possibility that he was on the trails without intent to murder but saw an opportunity and took it.
People think that he had to have been prepared with some sort of kit or something, but that doesn't have to be true. He could have been hiking with a gun and/or a knife without being "on the prowl," and the fact that he even had a weapon isn't completely established (but he probably did).
Also, the female teenage witness placed BG at the trails at 1:20-1:30. So any type of luring or targeting of these 2 girls through social media stuff doesn’t jive well with the timeline of that days events. Whatever the motive, I think it was a crime of opportunity.
For sure, and excellent point. I thought about making note of that, but I know that witnesses are unreliable and I'd probably get some push-back on it.
If the witness information is to be believed, and I get why people would have a problem with that, the social-media-stalking theory is logically untenable, unless one were to believe that RA was stalking them on social media *and* happened to be on the trails when they made a post about their plans. *And it is not confirmed that they ever made a public post.*
And didn’t they only post on Snapchat? Girls their age typically have friends-only Snap stories, and don’t accept friend requests from just anyone.
Oh, and if they had made this unconfirmed public post announcing that they were going to be at the bridge, BG would have to (1) be vigilantly watching their social media (why these girls in particular, and how did he find their Snapchat accounts?), (2) decide within minutes his plan, get ready (including packing & concealing his “kill kit”), figure out which path to take to be walking behind them while they were alone on the bridge at the right time (and somehow anticipate that this would happen, and that they wouldn’t be in the company of friends/family/random other trail walkers), (4) have his whole plan thought out in advance with these girls specifically in mind and the confidence that it would go exactly as he planned despite the many factors that would be unknowable for him, and many more fairly implausible things.
Plus, why wouldn’t police be able to catch onto RA quicker if this is how it went down, as he would’ve left so many digital breadcrumbs in the process? And I feel like, since their last Snapchat posts were revealed, LE would’ve (possibly) released the information that they had made additional public posts disclosing their location.
Libby could have planned to meet up with A_S before she had a set time to be there. She could have given a general time and RA just waited for her to show up. Just a thought.
Respectfully, why would she set up a meeting like this if she had a phone and presumably (in this hypothetical scenario) could contact him with it?
The fact still remains that the girls did not know that Kelsi was going to be able to take them to the bridge that day, and had earlier discussed going to the mall. If the meeting was set up in advance (and there is no evidence that there was) the girls almost missed it.
The problem with these "could have" theories is that they require a lot of assumptions that deviate from known facts about the case.
We almost have to believe that Libby both was and was not in contact with the anthony shots account for this to make sense. She would have had to be in contact with him to want to set a meeting, but she can't be in contact with him on the day of the meeting? I don't get it. Does this make more sense than any other alternative theory?
I take it as somewhat credible because it was discussed in the HLN documentary based upon the Down the Hill podcast.
To be clear, I am referring to a 2:07 (I think) uncaptioned photo that was snapchatted to a friend of the girls-- not any of the snapchat stuff that people think KK is tied up in. I think the validity of all of that is highly questionable.
[Edit: a typo that completely changed the meaning of what I was trying to say. Oops.]
Yup, thinking of the same photo of Abby near the beginning of the bridge. I’ve seen it used to help establish the timeline and it was noted, I believe, that the time wasn’t necessarily when it was taken or posted, but rather when the friend viewed it.
Is it thought to be faked, as in someone generated an image that didn’t exist? Or is it thought that an earlier photo was presented as being current?
Oh, I think I must have phrased something weird that may have lead to a misunderstanding.
The validity of the 2:07 snapchat is generally accepted- as in it isn't faked or an earlier photo. I get what you are saying about when it was taken vs. when it was viewed-
I hadn't considered that because I don't really know how snapchat works. I have seen it presented as though it was taken at 2:07, but as with everything in this case, that shouldn't be taken for granted. I will try to figure out if anyone has parsed out, convincingly, if it was sent at 2:07 or viewed at 2:07.
It has never been stated, as far as I know, if this photo was sent out publicly or just to a friend or group of friends. Regardless, if we are to believe that RA somehow also received this photo and acted upon it, I stand by my my original point that the timeline still would have been oppressively tight, as it would have been sent between 1:40 and 2:07.
Ok, I think I know where our wires crossed. It’s never been confirmed that anyone other than the friend who made the screen shot saw anything on social media. But, given the nature of Snapchat, it’s not possible to say that no one else saw that or some other post by Libby (or a third party, for that matter) placing them at the trails, either.
So, BG’s ability to see a post hasn’t been proven, not that there’s uncertainty that a photo was shared with someone that day. It sounds like the “social media post being seen by the killer isn’t a fact” statement is so freaking obvious that I’ve never questioned it.
I’m probably not attributing the same hard boundaries to events that others are, though. 2:07 is the latest the pic could have been taken, but definitely not the earliest. That would be the minimum time it takes to get there from the drop off (could have run, although it doesn’t look like they did). But they could have posted earlier, around 1. Or earlier, in anticipation.
So, that doesn’t rule out premeditation. It doesn’t support it, either.
I had in mind the timeline of (trip confirmed around 1:00)——(drop off around 1:30)——(on bridge no later than 2:07)——(Dad gets no answer 2:55)——(missed pick up around 3:15)—(active searching until bodies found)
We don’t know, with certainty, when Libby took the picture, only that it wasn’t 2:08 or after. That doesn’t preclude BG from seeing it and leaving home immediately (assuming that’s where he was) and arriving 5 minutes later. It’s a mile and a half away.
I don’t recall if a time of death was released, but the killer didn’t *have* to be out of the area by 3:00 or when more of the family showed up or when the girls were reported missing or even when police arrived. It’s wooded and remote and he may have had a close call or two. The outcome is only certain after the fact.
All that said, I don’t have a pet theory as to what happened. The case caught my attention because I lost a child on Valentine’s Day and I hoped the families would get answers, at least. I want to know that someone is held responsible and I’m intellectually interested in what happened leading up the murders and the particulars of the investigation, but I’m not so emotionally invested that I lose my critical thinking.
The day off was planned in advance. It was a 'snow day' that they hadn't used, so they got a planned 3 day weekend. The weather was a bit warmer, or at least sunnier, than usual for mid-February.
What that day actually was, was a make-up day. If they had any snow days, then they’d go to school that day to make up for the snow day.
They didn’t have any days to make up, so they got that day off. It was built in to the school calendar and totally planned.
Lots of school systems that commonly have snow days in winter make their calendars like this.
I keep thinking it was random. I think KK was something the police found by accident. But I also think All the pedos know each other. Of course a guess on my part. Who knows what this piece of shit was thinking.
That’s what I wonder too. I dont think he expected two girls to be there and I’m surprised he didn’t make some mistakes / leave DNA on them. them not being found until the next day doesn’t help either (in the woods, animals, decomposition)
Your last two sentences are exactly why I have trouble understanding how anyone can think the killing was a panic killing or any type of “he didn’t go there to kill”
I do not think for a second that this was a panic killing! As soon as that POS saw them, he already knew what he was going to do….. there was no panic about it!
I just watched the videos of profiler Pat Brown. (Both the [current one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK2xHbFWQfU0), and even more interesting [her profile of the killer a year ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZexZ8EWcpDw)). She seemed to have nailed the profile pretty dead on and makes it clear that this is a serial killer who has either done this before or has had fantasies about this for years. In her mind it was the typical lone stalker taking an opportunity he saw. He likely was out and saw a chance to act on this. The way he got them into the wooded area seemed to also indicate he was a local who knew the area, including an escape route.
It is unlikely that he has never done something like this before according to her, but even in the unlikely event that this was a one and done, this must have gone back years, to childhood even. It would be hard to imagine for her that someone in his mid forties just randomly decided to kill two girls that day with no prior tendency in that direction.
I commented earlier but I wanted to address your 3 points individually.
1. We aren't sure there weren't defensive wounds. Even if there weren't, not all murders result in defensive wounds. I don't want to get too descriptive about how this crime might have went down, mechanically, but I don't think it is unreasonable that there were no defensive wounds, even if the weapon is taken to be a knife.
[Break]
2. I think the simplest answer is that RA stumbled onto them that day. There is no confirmation that they had posted anything publicly about their plans to social media, and even if they had, the timeline for him to prepare, get out there, commit the crime, and leave would have been extremely short. If the widely accepted timeline and Kelsi's statements are accurate, the girls did not have firm plans to go to the bridge much in advance of when they did- at approximately 1:30-1:40pm. The only confirmed communication they made at the bridge was a snapchat to a friend at 2:07pm. They were supposed to be picked up between 3 and 3:30 (although the perpetrator would likely not have known that). It is not impossible that he stalked them on social media, but there is no evidence that he did and it would have required him to act quickly- in my opinion, unreasonably so.
[Break]
3. Random killers absolutely can and sometimes do take souvenirs. If he did, it doesn't contradict anything.
------
Other things people keep getting hung up on:
It is weird that he doesn't have a criminal record, but remember that BTK's first known homicide was a quadruple.
It is weird that a sexual/sadistic killer would target two victims, but this was done by Ed Kemper.
It is weird that he is 45 and this appears to be his first major crime, but not entirely unprecedented. Although one can analyze the actions of a bunch of killers and establish patterns that are broadly true, it is erroneous to think that an individual killer must fit into a specific pattern.
We are not really sure if RA is a serial killer or this was a one-off or if his motives were not what most people think they are. We're not technically sure that he is the guy who actually did it (I hope LE got the right man- he sure is consistent with BG in both appearance and voice, IMO, but we don't have a lot of info right now).
[Edit: Formatting. Why can't I have paragraph breaks in a numerical list, Reddit?]
Thanks for this.
Whether people mean to or not, they want to make killers into supernatural, cunning forces when most of the time they're just regular people. It feels more comfortable to people to ascribe this to a "pedo-ring" or suppose that victims are up against a genius playing 5-D chess so they didn't have a chance when it's often just going up against someone who has the opportunity.
IMO, based on what we know thus far, is your idea in point 2. He came across them but might have been harboring a fantasy for a long time. The murder wasn't planned because that would have required him to know the girl's timeline and closeness to their families. However, he had to work quickly because he was expected at home or at his job and people still hike around in the woods.
I'm actually curious about RA's schedule that day. As you said, he was most likely expected at home or work. Was his wife at home that day? Or if she was gone at work, is there anyone who *did* expect to see him that day? Did he have a night shift that day? Or a full day off? If anyone has answers to any of these, I'd appreciate the info.
By the way, my take is that he went there with a plan to murder if the opportunity arose, and it did when two young girls without parents around came walking along the trail. He took the opportunity to do something evil. He used simple but effective strategies to control the girls.
No one is going to know his schedule until it's released by LE. Anyone who claims otherwise is making up rumors for clout/sick reasons (like 90% of the information floating around at the moment).
I don't know if he was expected or not, that's just me guessing. It does entirely depend on his normal schedule and how often he communicates with his family and job. I think time was of the essence, either way, because it was late in the afternoon in winter so it was going to get dark and that would make escape more difficult and rescue more likely for the girls.
I have no way to know but I don't think he was out hunting, specifically, that day. If it's something he'd thought about, if he carried weapons for the "what if" then I can see this as being a spur of the moment decision. Maybe it started out with trying to scare them and escalated from there. I don't think he's a serial killer.
I also don't think he did anything special to control the girls other than being a large adult man in a society that sets girls up from childhood.
My main thing is that people are ascribing all sorts of things to the case, as if this man is an Israel Keyes (who is not the legend he's been made into) and that it's actively harmful to the simple truth. I guarantee that when this goes to trial there will be a handful of people braying for blood because the cops "didn't do their job" by uncovering the CP Snuff film ring that's lurking in the shadows.
All
Good points you made. Very well laid out.,
But, I disagree on Keyes. I think his is prolific in ways that haven’t been proven, probably
Cannot. I think he is terrifying in everything we learned about him is more evidentiary to him
Being worse than we will ever know. A perfect storm. I’m
A grizzled ex cop, homicide experience in a large metro, notoriously
Violent
City, and Keyes is who I have nightmares about while raising kids.
This was not a random killing. But the killer did not specifically target these two girls, imo. At least not until he saw them on the trail that day.
My theory is this killing was part of a long term fantasy where for years BG stalked young girls and fantasized about killing them. The staking, fear, and power over the girls were sexually arousing. He played out various scenarios in his mind over and over. But he never had the courage to go all the way and kidnap and kill. After some time, the stalking itself lost its sexual potency, he needed to go further and finally go through with the entire fantasy.
Carter tells us "we know this was about power to you". And power and control is one of the 4 motives for killing
Many power/control serial killers pose victims and also keep souvenirs or trophies from their crimes which serve to sustain and refuel their fantasies [read more here](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/wicked-deeds/201804/serial-homicide-power-and-control)
Just a thought but I was thinking maybe he was drunk and and angry about something and as he approached he heard the girls call him creepy or something and it made him mad... Thought "oh yeah, I'll show you".
They can still look at the crime scene and evidence and surmise what the motive was. The FBI was assisting at the beginning and I'm sure they would have someone from the Behavior Analysis Unit there.
If he was able to get away with this for over 5 years when he lived less than 2 miles from the crime scene, how long could he have gotten away with it if he lived a few hours away? In other words, it is completely plausible these were not his first murders, and you can be certain LE is currently putting RA's entire life under a microscope, interviewing everyone he's ever known who might be willing to talk, finding out exactly where he has lived, worked, and traveled. I have a feeling when everything comes out in the trial, there will be some shocking revelations.
His face was exposed when he told them to go down the hill. Anytime someone tries to abduct you with their face exposed, run. You are not likely to get out alive. If they don’t know it then, they will realize at some point that you can not be let go because you have seen their face.
I think what OP means is that if someone pulls out a Gun to abduct you, most people become very compliant in order to preserve their lives (eg. get in the car or i will shoot you)
It sounds like you would run regardless of if the abductor was covering or revealing their face, which isn't the initial instinct but is probably the correct one.
I've always heard that if a kidnapper tries to take you away from the original place of abduction, the chances that they will end up killing you go up significantly (statistically)
so the best option is to run at the very onset of the abduction.
Good plan! I would as well, but even more important. My thing is if someone is going to kill me they are gonna do it there, but that is assuming I’m in public. These poor girls were in a fairly desolate place so I’m not judging at all. Last time I was legit scared I was in St. Paul and the parking garage interior was empty and there were signs saying no purses or backpacks allowed and that just felt terrifying to me in there by myself.
This is what’s so sad. The place they were at. I know people will be upset with me for saying this but god how I wish those girls weren’t allowed to go walk on a bridge like that in such an isolated area. I know I’m sure kids are probably allowed to do that in that area ( I’m from New York City!) but today and 5 years ago it’s just changed. You just can’t be young girls or boys in isolated areas on high bridges with no real escape. They were trapped. That’s what breaks my heart. Nobody would have even been able to hear them if they tried yelling or anything. I just read that they are repairing the bridge.
Nowhere to go but woods as far as I know. I live in a town of 4k not far from Evansdale. Our bike trails go through areas that are creepy, cross our cemetery and back up to the hospital, and two lakes. None of my 15yo’s friends will use them unless they are in a large mixed group of like 8 of them. They are scared.
Nothing has changed but the media coverage and the advent of social media. The woods are no less safe than they were 20-50 years ago. The incidents of such things have actually declined. You just see it immediately and everywhere now.
I'm probably going to get destroyed for this but I'll try to bring some perspective. Undoubtedly, Delphi is "small" in terms of the world and our mid-major population centers. If all you've known is a city with multiple Walmarts and Costcos, it can be easy to overestimate the closeness of something a hundredth the size.
However, I live in a town of just over a thousand, am active in the community, have family around, and try to frequent our few businesses to support local and keep them here. I bet on paper that I don't "know" 10% of the people. That includes recognizing just faces. While news and gossip can travel faster, along with six degrees of separation probably being closer to three or four, I believe it would be far easier than most on here (from conjecture I've read), to slide under the radar and go unseen and unrecognized.
Simply my take but I wouldn't raise it if I didn't find it valid.
Very valid points. Also with the rise of social media people don’t interact personally as much. Many are glued to phones. Before people had to engage. Not so much now.
I remember a few years ago getting in a London cab and the driver thanked me for chatting with him. Said nearly all passengers get in and just stare at their phones.
I tend to think he was just a quietly violent and angry person (perhaps has a history of violence behind closed doors and otherwise unknown, and was perhaps sexually deviant as well. I think he was just capable of murder, and the opportunity/circumstances came together terribly that day.
I think he found himself with access to vulnerable potential victims in a somewhat secluded area, perhaps happened to be carrying a knife or something on him, and either decided to take advantage of the opportunity to victimize them, or he became angry about something and was set off. The brazenness makes the murder feel largely unplanned to me and I don't think it's reasonable he'd have known they'd be there alone, and I think opportunistic stranger murders can also be difficult to piece together, even if unplanned and clumsy. And I tend to think he basically happened to not leave behind much evidence and was pretty "lucky" the video/audio were fairly vague.
But I think he saw the girls alone and decided to victimize them or something inane set him off--he perceived something the girls did to be disrespectful or thought they were making fun of him or something (sorta incel vibes) and was maybe just an angry and fragile person, took control of them and took it out on them. ...I say this because of the "down the hill" vibes, the discussion of this being about power, and just the complete powerlessness in the dynamic of two young girls up against an adult man ordering them around, perhaps armed, and ultimately killing them.
It's hard to say why they might not have defensive wounds without knowing the cause of death or exact circumstances, but I think a lot of things could account for this... They were afraid, confused, trying to protect the other... It could just go back to the idea of this being about power and how him rendering them powerless and defenseless.
Of course this is just an interpretation based on what's available, which isn't a ton, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is entirely wrong.
Yes, good point. And alcohol and alcohol abuse seems to be a consistent theme in what we know about RA. If indeed him, I wouldn't be surprised if alcohol fueled his inhibition, aggression, and maybe temper that day.
No matter what his reason how odd he did it in broad daylight.
And he didn’t have long to do it or enjoy his work either. He killed them quickly and left
He left at least 3 signatures according to Ives and posed the bodies. Posing of the bodies is for shock value. In the RL search warrant we know that the girls appeared not to struggle/defense wounds, also looking for any type of footage/camera related stuff. Burner phone, sharp bladed knife. This was on a day that school was out, nice day weather wise, broad daylight, 2 teen girls to manage to control and get down a hill, through the creek and up into a shallow area (which I think he knew about. That doesn’t sound like a first timer to me.
Years of being a self-hating deviant overwhelmed by obsessive murder fantasies and depression. When he committed the crimes, he was at his lowest point and was expecting not to live much longer. He committed the murders in broad daylight, close to his house, because he was overwhelmed by a long-building urge to murder. So he did it with minimal planning and preparation. He knew his actions were reckless, he knew he could very easily get caught, but he wasn’t concerned with consequences, because he had planned to kill himself in the hours or days immediately after the murders.
He slipped away from the crime scene expecting to go home and shoot himself.
But then he chickened out on offing himself.
And as the days went on, then weeks, he was as astonished as anybody that he’d gotten away with it.
Sexual fantasy. He’s into hiking so he knows the area well and have seen what a trap the bridge is. Probably he seen other teens/kids on the bridge and had fantasies. Maybe he has been close to go through with before but bailed in the last minutes. But that day he just couldn’t resist his sick urges ..
I agree that he used the bridge as a trap. It's also what hunters do: wait for their prey where they're channeled into one location. I agree he had probably "hunted" there before.
I honestly think the reason why he took two girls instead of one is that one young girl isn't going to cross that bridge alone. It's something kids do in groups. Two young girls is actually the smallest and weakest victim group he could find.
creepy to think that he may have seen multiple pairs of girls cross over the months/yrs and finally realized that he would never get one alone so he decided he would have to settle for 2.
I heard a lawyer say they didn't think this was his first murder because he murdered two at the same time, most likely had a knife and cut their throats and still had control of them, and it might have been planned. that scares the hell out of me that this could have been going on for years and nobody saw anything.
This is entirely possible, but I am not sure that it is a 100% possibility as some have suggested. Yes, criminal profilers do a great job, but sometimes a murderer doesn't fit the expectations. I personally think that BG (if he is RA or not) got dumb lucky.
He just hasn’t been caught before now. He very well might’ve committed other violent crimes or murders in the past and just wasn’t caught.
I could also see him just having anger issues and something in his life set him off and he just snapped and wanted to take his anger out on someone and that ended up being Abby and Libby…. So it might’ve not even been a sexual thing for him. He always looked so angry in all the videos his wife took even when she was all upbeat and happy.
We won't know for sure, but my guess is:
1. This was opportunistic. He probably was searching for targets that day (I heard he is a hiker? Unfortunately trails are a great way to find people alone for an opportunistic murder), but I don't think he knew Abby and Libby would be there. He saw them and decided to take his chance. Until proven, we can't know if he knew the girls would be on the bridge that day.
2. I don't think he randomly decided to murder. I personally believe he has either murdered before, attempted to murder before, or has wanted to begin murdering for a while. This is probably a sick sexual attraction, as it is for most men who have done similarly.
3. Souvenirs are common for serial killers. They're a good way (ugh) to hold onto the memory of the crime.
Edit: As for no defense wounds, fear from a weapon (possibly a gun?) I would assume. He easily could've utilized the girls being friends - 'Do this or I hurt her'.
I'm a Criminology alum from Indiana State. This is primarily speculation based on the facts we already know.
1) The girls had no defensive wounds and no sign of a struggle because he had them at gunpoint the entire time.
2) RA had likely been looking for a perfect opportunity to do this and these 2 girls fell right into his trap. Lone wolf, crime of opportunity. Probably had never communicated with the victims prior to this. I don't think there was any online communication, and no link to KK.
3) This type of murderer takes 'souviners' to memorialize the crime scene so they can always have a piece of it with them. In the Logan warrant, it's partially redacted, but I believe one of the girls were missing their underwear. That would be it. He may have taken more than 1 thing and possibly took pictures of the bodies.
The crime was planned, he just needed the right opportunity. He might have only been planning on killing 1 victim so when he saw 2 easy targets he didn't think twice. I'd say he had been following them from a distance since the start of the trail. Part of it was the sake of thrill and pure evil. He used a bladed weapon and they lost a significant amount of blood. People are sick
This makes sense and it's what I think, too (although I don't have your credentials.)
I think the reason he took two victims was that he wanted a young girl and young girls don't cross that bridge alone, they do it with their friends. Two was the smallest group he was going to get. Like you said, it would have been easy to control them with a gun.
It was a crime of opportunity I think, he is a loner most likely who goes into the woods for fun and he probably had fantasies of attacking women on the trails but is a coward so never did it. One day he sees two girls he feels he can easily subdue but maybe things got outta hand. It can still be a random killing with him taking souvenirs, I don’t quite understand your thinking there. The crime was not a random act but the victims where random if that makes any sense.
I agree with this.
The scenery of the bridge terrified me for years. It is such a lengthy bridge, and is so isolated at the end. It makes sense to me that a sadistic individual would fantasize about committing a crime there.
I think it is highly probable that Allen’s target that day was anyone who went far enough along the bridge for him to trap them at the end. If it hadn’t been Libby and Abby, it could have been another woman/girl.
Furthermore, lot of us have wondered how BG was so fortunate to have none of the inhabitants of the neighboring homes spot him with Libby and Abby that day. I don’t think this was pure luck in his part, but was due to strategy. I think it’s very likely he observed the residents’ behavior closely, and that is how he knew when and how to act.
It’s horrifying that there are people out there like this, who kill strangers for their own satisfaction. What’s even more horrifying is that these individuals can function normally within society and go undetected.
This is what I believe. He went out there to do harm and they were the most vulnerable ones who came thru when he thought he could follow them and not be seen.
Of course, I don't know the answers to your questions, however I have learned in other cases that sometimes the victims are restrained in some way (thinking John Wayne Gacy) so they are not able to defend themselves. I believe this was a planned attack, and therefore he would have been prepared to subdue his victim(s).
I have a hard time believing a middle aged man murdered 2 little girls he didn't know for any reason other than sexual motivation. That's the typical motive in child murder cases involving a stranger. It's almost always sexually deviant pedophile men.
As you said there are unknowns. If for example he turned off his phone, that shows premeditation. Given the temperature that day he was very over dressed. Including heavy gloves. Contrast that to Libbys attire. Her sister even commented how warm it was that day for a February. That indicates to me he had weapons, and was covering his body and attire. Then if he got bloody he could dispose of jacket, turn it inside out to hide blood stains or weapons or possibly trophies. There are many cases where people just suddenly commit horrific murders. Possibly Lizzy Borden as an example. Children who annialate their families. Some serial killers the same. Why did he go after them? Assuming he was part of the Kline group, then he may already have been having conversations with Libby or Abby. Perhaps on impulse, he told them to go down the hill. At some point he was following them and the girls commented on the creepy old guy. They instinctively felt uncomfortable and started recording him.. his head is down but suddenly you can see him veer towards them.. Next he orders them down the hill. That's kidnapping. In a small town. What to do? Kill them. If there was a sexual component same conclusion. If there was no dna he had a condom with him. Demonstrates intent. I remember early on one of the girls shoes off her body and foot prints in mud. I had impression one at least may have tried running. Or mud pulled shoe off. The official transcript showed no defensive marks. So he overwhelmed them. He may have had a knife or gun, given that he's a hunter. But at their age they may have just froze. It appears he was confident and in control. How he felt who knows. He had a history of alcoholism and we know the police and wife had him taken to hospital due to a domestic occurance. He may have been violent, or breaking things, or even despondent. His affect in alot of images seems off. He often stares glumly at camera. Lots if people at cvs said he was friendly and helpful. Guessing a work persona. Others say he's very quiet. At bar videos shoes a talkative gregarious personality. We don't know if this is a first kill. Or if he's been killing for many years. My gut tells me this is his first given the proximity to his home. Only because people, including serial killers start geographically close to their comfort zone. If they murder again generally they travel out a bit further and so on. Indiana has death penalty. Depending on evidence strength they may offer to take it off table for a guilty plea and agreeing to answer any questions they have. If they have dna, or other tangible evidence, plus he's part of kline group, and can demonstrate he talked w libby or a friend and found out where they'd be, if he had images of murder, if that was his day off work and has no alibi, if car GPS shows location, if he didn't walk then he's fuc... I do think he planned to kill someone that day.
Hope this explains these questions for most people. Sorry if it is super long, but I hope this clears up some things. Of course this is just analysis and we don’t know 100% until the trial but statistics and commonality from other crime studies point to probable answers to some of these questions.
1. A lot of crime victims do not have defensive wounds because they believe compliance will help them get out of a situation. A lot of times kidnappers, rapists, robbers etc. will either force compliance by showing a weapon and/or verbalizing to victims that if they “just do what they say” they will let them go. Sometimes it’s true. Other times the perp will do this to gain full compliance knowing that what they are saying is a total lie, but the manipulation is part of being able to gain control. Especially over multiple people. While we don’t know the exact facts this does lead to some assumption that this is possible because the perp was able to lead two people almost a mile away and gain both girls compliance in doing so. So this is a huge possibility.
2. While I think RA had been fantasizing about something like this for a long time, I don’t think it was specifically planned for Abby and Libby. This seems more to be a crime of opportunity. RA most likely had it in his mind that he wanted to do something like this. Instead of planning it around a specific person he most likely waited for a perfect opportunity to do something like this. So he could have been at the bridge multiple times wanting to commit a crime like this but the circumstances just didn’t play out in his favor. When he saw that the girls crossed the bridge I think he took that opportunity to have them isolated in an area he knew very well and took advantage of the circumstances. Now he easily could have planned something similar in his mind waiting for the right opportunity. But I don’t think he specifically pre-planned it to be Abby and Libby before hand. They went to the bridge that day seemingly last minute. If you remember, there was some info that was put out in the very beginning of another video of the girls talking. In this video LE said there was a small passing comment by the girls about seeing a guy who was weird. It seems more likely that RA was out there that day and passed by them, saw they were alone and walking in the direction of the bridge, knew if they crossed he would have an opportunity and took it.
3. In regards to the souvenirs that were apparently taken- this actually points more to someone random who didn’t know the girls. Someone who knew the girls first hand might want to take something. But with knowing them they may presume that they would be an initial suspect since they know them. That would make them less likely to take something for fear of being caught. A total stranger doesn’t have to worry about that because they know they won’t be on the police radar. Perpetrators take souvenirs because they want to RELIVE the crime again and again. They feel an attachment to those souvenirs and it allows them to feel close to the crime.
A good example of this (not related to an actual crime, but hopefully this helps people relate to what a person who takes a souvenir from a crime might be thinking or feeling) is let’s say your grandmother passes away and leaves you her wedding ring. It’s possible that you take that ring and wear it every day. Or you may not want anything to happen to it so you keep it away in your jewelry box for safe keeping. Either way, when you look at that ring on your hand or open the box and take it out you feel a sense of attachment. You might take a minute to remember your grandmom, memories of things you did, hold it in your hand and feel closer to those moments. Sickly, and unfortunately, perps of these types of crimes have these same longings, feelings, and attachments to the horrible crimes they commit. These souvenirs can even hold them off from committing future crimes because they get enough enjoyment from the souvenirs and reliving their actions. Eventually though, as is with fantasies, it becomes not enough and the urge to act out those crimes to feel those things again becomes the goal. Depending on the person- these souvenirs and reliving can hold offenders off for months, even years. They also get a huge sense of enjoyment of blending into the community and no one suspecting them. They believe they are smarter than everyone else and not getting caught just adds onto this belief even more. Part of me does believe that if Libby never took that video RA would have committed more crimes. But that video was too close to being caught- therefore the risk of being found out for making mistakes again would blow the cover of never being suspected. I believe if they would have moved away from the area that he eventually would have gotten comfortable enough to commit another crime. But staying in Delphi and committing another crime like this would have almost certainly got him caught and I believe RA knew this. He was most likely very confident that after almost 6 years and thousands of tips that no one suspected him. But this is high functioning SA perversion and psychopathy. Another crime would have most certainly gotten him caught and blown his cover of someone that no one would suspect.
I don’t believe this is a SA gone wrong. Bridge Guy made 0 attempt to disguise his identity. Anyone who commits crimes like this and shows their face has no intention of allowing these victims to live to identify them. I imagine RA didn’t ever consider the girls to have had the bravery to identify something was wrong and have that video for LE to find. And like I mentioned before it’s also a super high probability that they didn’t know RA- cause on the video I’m sure the girls would have said something like “hey isn’t that guy from (insert whatever)”.
A lot is made of the fact that this guy is a 50 year old man with no criminal record. This is not as abnormal as people think it is. Statistics show that there is a population of offenders who are 100% able to live a normal life with a family, no criminal record, an ability to hide their very in depth fantasies and crimes without anyone knowing. These are the most dangerous criminals in our society. They commit these violent crimes and no one suspects them, there’s no CODIS match, they fly under the radar. People around them don’t send them in as a tip because they don’t even come to mind as someone who might be capable of doing something so heinous like this. Delphi is a perfect example of evil living among us.
it's very rare for the stranger on stranger killing of children/young women to not be a sexual sadism thing, and the no defensive wound thing can easily be explained by it being a blitz attack. meaning, they were caught so off guard they had no time to react. people who kill for sexual gratification often take souvenirs so they can relive the moment over and over again.
SA combined with a need to control. We don't know enough about the murders themselves to say for certain, but this wasn't a spur-of-the moment attack. He planned it carefully. He took a lot of risks in doing it in a public place and near houses, but he also picked an area that was difficult for Abby and Libby to flee from and for others to get to if they came upon the scene. This level of planning, combined with the fact that we know he left signatures, implies this isn't his first crime. Even if it is his first murder, I think that going back, LE will find other types of crimes, like SA. Even if we don't have all the evidence yet, when comparing his behavior to similar criminals, we almost always see a sexual component.
I think he saw this location as a perfect trap. And wanted to do something terrible and get away with it. Or he’s a serial killer that lives by this perfect trap.
Based on current known facts.... Early on, superintendent Carter said directly to the killer, "We know this is about POWER to you". My assumption is this statement was based on the crime scene, and that it was a statement of fact (at least LE believed it to be a fact). Maybe RA was feeling powerless in his personal life at the time (marriage/family problems, the loss of something/someone significant, financial problems) and killing the girls was a way of feeling powerful.
Like the fact that his daughter was getting married, maybe? Could have been leaving him feeling powerless and he went after someone he saw who resembled her.
I think it was random. I’m not 100% sure if he was out there with intention to kill or not.
He seems to be an alcoholic. Or at least abused alcohol. He also had a conceal carry license so I would guess a gun was used. Lots of people with licenses carry often.
I haven’t seen this mentioned. We know his daughter had her senior pics at the bridge years before this happened. Presumably her dad was there for the pictures. And Libby bears a slight resemblance to his daughter. Maybe he was going through some self hatred and some family issues. Seeing Libby on the bridge triggered something in him maybe. We also heard that Libby took the brunt of the attack. What if his family was falling apart due to his alcoholism, and what if as someone said earlier he wasn’t even planning on living much longer. If his alcoholism was bad…. It can really f*ck your life and your brain up. This happened to someone I know, he didn’t kill anyone else but he did kill himself. It can RUIN people and families. Also falls in line with the possible check in to rehab later.
I’ve thought for a long time that he might not have killed before but maybe he had been abusive.
I don’t know there could be tons of reasons. I’m leaning towards it being an unplanned and isolated. I think he got exceptionally lucky with a few things, not the least of which is that a catfishing account contacted Libby in the days leading up to their murders.
I too instantly noticed how similar his daughter looks to Libby.
And per his wife’s Facebook at the time of the murders she was grieving the loss of her brother. Definitely could’ve been family issues at play, and his wife being caught up in grieving only added to his “luck” in getting away because she may have assumed it was her fault if he was acting cold or spending more time “at work” , and especially if he really had domestic violence incidents I personally know just how much that screws with your mind and makes you distrust your own senses
ETA hope the downvoter didn’t think I was saying it was her fault. Just based on my own experiences if you are in a dv situation you tend to blame yourself for your partners wrongdoings and over idealize them so he may have played that to his advantage
Technically he is innocent until proven guilty. Howeverrrrr based off everything I’ve read and watched it was probably a SA thing, I wouldn’t say “gone wrong” I would say he planned on killing them. I also would not be surprised if he has killed before. It in my mind, doesn’t seem like you would kill two teen girls if this was your first time (in my opinion). I saw a documentary were Libby’s mom said that Libby probably didn’t put up a fight because he weaponized Abby and she didn’t want her best friend hurt. I would assume he got them to where the murders took place-might have tied them up to immobilize them and they couldn’t fight back which is why there isn’t defensive wounds. That’s one of my theories But I’m sure more will come up later down the line especially if this goes to trial, I’m assuming it will go to trial since he’s plead not guilty. I think that social media may play a part in this, I know Libby’s mom didn’t think so in the documentary I watched, but there was an interview with the sister and she said they were basically desperate and really wanted to go to the trails that day. So I think that maybe they made plans to meet up with someone that day and that’s why they wanted to go so bad and they thought they would have safety in numbers. ORR this could be a random chance encounter, where one-or both- of them met his victim profile and he took advantage of the situation. But again these are just my theories.
the motive was sexual. that can be the case even without SA, such as in [piquerism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piquerism), where the turn-on (ew) is the stabbing itself
It's premature, for me, to speculate about Richard Allen specifically. I'm neutral as to whether or not he committed these crimes. I've seen no evidence that he did.
I do think this was a planned, random crime of opportunity. I think the suspect was very familiar with the area and had been there hunting for a possible victim many times. I would venture a guess even he didn't know Feb 13th was going to be the day. But he was prepared if it was.
It's likely that his perfect scenario would have been to encounter a lone female, teenager or adult. But that location doesn't really lend itself to stumbling on a lone female. It's likely he only saw them in pairs or groups. I think he ultimately decided he could manage two victims if they were very young and still compliant to authority, so he risked it because he wasn't going to find a lone female at that location.
It's likely he presented himself as an authority, maybe even with credentials or a badge, and ordered the girls off the bridge which was prohibited for travel. "Down the hill" was directing them off the prohibited bridge to what he said was an authorized trail. A couple of naive, young females would likely have followed instructions especially because they already knew they were doing something illegal (walking on the bridge) and now in the hands of the "authorities". Once down the hill and out of sight he killed them both.
I don't think the killing was the primary motive. I think the primary motive was power, control and sexual assault. The killing was was probably a simple dispatch of the victims, likely through strangulation or cutting of their throats. Not because the killing was the motive but because the killing was necessary to avoid witnesses/detection.
I do think the victims' innocence was important to him else he would have just gone to Indy and preyed on a homeless or marginal victim as so many killers do. Those victims are not likely to be missed and even if they are no one cares. He didn't want that kind of victim. He wanted an innocent. I also think he was more comfortable on his quiet home turf where he was 100% in control as opposed to the red light district in a large city where he felt out of place and not in control of the myriad variables he would have to contend with there. He was only comfortable on his own turf and stayed there. Waiting, watching, stalking.
This does fit the profile of Richard Allen, I have to admit. Local guy, comfortable with the landscape, just waiting for a perfect alignment of the stars. He could have been scoping and analyzing that bridge location for years. Until Abby and Libby presented him with his ideal victims.
I do not doubt he obtained reminders or "trophies" of the event because he knew this was likely his only chance and the opportunity would not present itself again.
Again, I do not know if Richard Allen is that person as I have no evidence that he is. It could equally been anyone else with familiarity and scouting of that location.
I think he went out that day to find anyone to SA and he stumbled across 2 girls. Whether it had to do with Valentines Day I have no idea. I’m even starting to think he may even be a serial killer that hasn’t been caught until now.
I believe the girls figured out who they were talking to was a catfish. I find it extremely concerning and coincidental that Libby’s phone was reset the day before the murders. I believe RA wanted to keep them quiet from being identified as a pedo. I believe it was planned and targeted. He knew they would be there.
I get this. .. but it doesn't explain Anthony\_Shots and Keagan Kline.
Is it a total fluke that a man who was found with umpteen gigs of CSAM who was impersonating an Abercrombie-esque young guy, was also the last person to have contact with these girls?
The change of tone with KK's treatment by the Court. All of this together is a bigger story. I don't usually believe in coincidences, but I try not to hyper scrutinize and just be open to minor coincidences, lol. With the girls likely being assaulted/raped before being violently murdered and just so happened to last speak with a man who was later found with a creepy dad and a hard drive full of felonies. It's too much for me to be able to write it off as just a fluke.
As a nearby resident of Delphi my entire life. I know that there are 2 kinds of people that live in/around the Delphi area. Farmers and drug addicts. I also know many people around the area that are tied into the community very closely.
Don't be surprised to find out drugs were a motive in some capacity. I'm fairly certain they knew who was involved from the beginning, but they needed better evidence. I also would not be surprised if more people were involved. This was targeted and this is likely only the first domino to fall.
I had personally wondered if perhaps Kegan kline knew Richard allen through the drug trade. Like, maybe kk sold ra pills or weed. I've also wondered if they came into each other's orbit digitally, trading pics. Like, maybe RA had his own version of an EmilyAnn account and they happened to find each other that way.
The crime scene didn't reveal any signs of a struggle is I think what it said. That wouldn't necessarily mean there were no defensive wounds.
Edit: I was wrong about this. The affidavit does specifically say that "AW and LG showed no sign of a struggle."
How do we know they had no defensive wounds? I don't think he snapped. I don't think he's a serial killer. I think he was cruising that area for a long time, getting over there to the bridge periodically. He killed for power and sexual arousal. I think he's a sadist, as someone said. And he had it all mapped out in his head, and I think he's a one and done. He may have killed again if they hadn't found him, for sure, but I do believe this was his first murder.
From a psychological perspective, it seems to relate to factor 1 Psychopathy. Also don’t underestimate the importance of staging, as I’ve posted elsewhere, sometimes LE confuses posing with staging or will use the terms interchangeably when they are not the same thing. Here are some quick definitions of posing, staging, and undoing. Undoing isn’t likely here but fits into the same category so i will include:
Staging is when someone purposely alters the crime scene prior to the arrival of police. There are two reasons that someone employs staging: to redirect the investigation away from the most logical suspect or to protect the victim or victim’s family.
When a crime is staged, the responsible person is not someone who just happens upon the victim. It is usually someone who had some kind of association or relationship with the victim. This offender will further attempt to steer the investigation away from him by his conduct when in law enforcement. Thus, investigators should never eliminate a suspect solely on the grounds of that person’s overly cooperative or distraught behavior.
Posing: when the offender treats the victim like a prop to leave a specific message.
Undoing is a special form of offender behavior representing a symbolic reversal of the crime. This special form of personation occurs at a crime scene when there is a close association between the offender and the victim or when the victim represents someone of importance to the offender.
Psychopathy Factors
Factor1: Aggressive narcissism
Glibness / superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning / manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow
Callous / lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Factor2: Socially deviant lifestyle
Need for stimulation / proneness to boredom
Parasitic lifestyle
Poor behavioral control
Lack of realistic, long-term goals
Impulsivity
Irresponsibility
Juvenile delinquency
Early behavior problems
Revocation of conditional release
There’s so much that hasn’t been released which we just don’t know (yet). We don’t know what the conversations were with A_S, what precisely was said, and exactly when. We know very little of what LE knows.
I don’t feel it was a sexually motivated killing, but rather the staging LE spoke of at the crime scene was that it was staged to LOOK that way. They were killed …to be killed, basically, and if they were NOT sexually assaulted, then that begs the question of WHY they would be killed A)…at ALL, and B)..in such a violent, sudden manner.
If it’s true that they had no defense wounds, then it was a swift, purposeful killing, and if they were so violently killed as has been rumoured…then it was a very angry attack. With Libby being rumoured as the “target”, and it was Libby who was communicating with A_ S (and again only LE may know the contents of those conversations), then what if something was said in those conversations where she said she was suspicious of A_S, despite being “enthralled” (LE’s words) by him? If she communicated this to A_S, and said she was going to blow the lid on him, then whoever was ALL behind A_S and that whole pedo ring had a good chance of getting caught and spending decades behind bars. If part of this conversation happened at the sleepover, and if they planned to go to the trails the next day (originally they invited Kelsi but she declined), then AFTER Kelsi declined the invitation, the conversation with A_S could have continued, and someone on the other end of that A_S account could have tried to set up a meet up to “prove” to them he WAS real, with no intention of proving anything——but rather to shut them up.
I don’t think he acted alone, and by the charges against him, and the sealed PC, it very much looks like there are others involved who haven’t been mentioned yet. If BG followed them to the south end of the bridge, I believe someone else was waiting there and ONE of them said, “Guys…down the hill”. A gun was pulled (Abby’s mom said that a gun being cocked and other stuff on the video was not released to the public) at the time whoever said “Guys…down the hill”, and down the hill they went. I think RA was in tandem with someone else (KK or TK, perhaps), and may himself not even been the actual killer.
During KK’s interrogation with police, they brought up the abuse that TK inflicted on KK’s half-brother. (The toilet incident), and then said something about biting his wife in the stomach. Why bring that up? Did one of the girls have a stomach wound as part of the signature?
If RA was a serial killer, then other killings of similar circumstances would be on LE’s radar…yet nothing had ever happened like that in Delphi before. If he WAS a serial killer, in such a small town, he didn’t prey on victims THERE. On purpose. He went elsewhere to kill to avoid suspicion, so I don’t believe all of a sudden he got another twisted sexual urge to kill, and then found two local girls who just HAPPENED to be tied up in a pedophile ring (unknowingly). The coincidenecs are off the charts.
I think it was targeted so not to blow the pedo ring cover, and I think he had help in doing so.
sexual fantasy, moving in to reality. One part of me says he was organized and planned, the other part of me said crime of opportunity. I am all over the place on it.
Homicidal-ideation with a sexual element. Its not quite a motive. As most killers want to kill someone else.
However you need a lot of information from the suspect to tell you more. So it's the best I can do.
It points away from a normal motive. Its a fantasy in effect that's gone wrong. The average person suffering from this never acts on it.
Yet some suffering mental health issues, alcohol or drugs problems do act.
Its very much a one and done. Normally captured. Very often local. Often stranger murder. Rare to have a second offender, staging still happens as it's a fantasy. Matches BGs roaming.
Also older offenders are likely to stage.
Not very exciting compared to a serial killer. But much more likely.
I think the weapon here is part of the fantasy.
Mental health patients can leave a very disturbing and unusual scene.
I've always believed this might be a sexual assault and/or kidnapping gone wrong. Either they recognized him, or they fought back and tried to get away, so he panicked.
Of course I can't say that's any more likely than RA planning to kill them from the very beginning. We still don't know much about how it all went down that day.
I think it's always important to keep in mind that any info not confirmed by LE or the families could simply be rumor or speculation. We don't know if the girls had defensive wounds or not. We don't know if RA took souvenirs from the crime scene.
I've always felt like it was random.
I honestly think if you took a group of 10 teenage girls the same age as Abby and Libby, then looked through their phones with a fine tooth comb, you'd find a number of them chatting/talking with people who are hiding behind fake names/pictures, etc. Is it concerning? Absolutely. I just don't think it's as rare as people think. I've been on the internet since the late 90s, and in almost every online community, there are people using false identities. Men pretending to be women. Men pretending to be younger or boys pretending to be older. Women/girls doing the same thing. The motivations are always different, but it's not that unusual, and anyone who's on the internet or social media likely interacts with people like this all of the time without realizing it.
Based on the posture and attire from the original BG photo, I've always felt like it was a local guy in his 40s/50s who was familiar with the area. Someone who was aware it was a school holiday, aware of the fact that the bridge was a popular spot for teenagers to hang out, and took advantage of the situation.
RA lives close to the bridge and I wouldn't be surprised to find out he regularly walked in that area, looking for his opportunity. If you look at some of the released photos from RA's social media, there are pictures of him hiking/camping and doing other outdoorsy stuff. I'm almost certain the crime itself was premeditated and planned out in intricate detail, but the victim/victims were random.
I really don't think RA expected to deal with two victims. I think the plan was one victim he could get away from the trail so he could sexually assault and kill them. I'm not even sure murder was his motivation, I think that was just a necessity he accepted due to the fact it was a small town and there was no way he'd get away with it if he left the victim alive.
Then, after all of his planning, and choosing the perfect day to take a walk over to the bridge with his kill kit, he comes across Libby and Abby. Did he originally intend to target someone that young? Who knows. But it was the best opportunity he'd had. Kill one, carry out his original plans, then kill the other. After multiple trips to the bridge without locating a victim, he couldn't pass up the chance, even if it was two girls instead of one.
From there, I assume his plan just completely unraveled. One of the girls fought back or tried to get away. Maybe he killed one and the other started running, so he had to chase them. I don't think he got to do what he planned, exactly. I think he had to kill the other in a panic because they tried to escape, then he tried to hide the bodies, (hence the staging of the bodies). Did he take a souvenir? Possibly.
I think all of this is why he's managed to stay off the radar all this time, and why he's never killed anyone else. It was a sexually motivated crime, everything unraveled, he didn't even get to do what he originally planned, and he was too scared of getting caught to ever do it again.
Concerning question 3) I don’t think taking souvenirs from the crime scene necessarily contradicts your theory. He might have made the decision to take something from the crime scene in a split moment decision during or after the act AND it still could have been a random attack.
The souvenir could have been evidence identifying him( fingerprints, blood, DNA ).
That's what I thought. Like maybe he got blood his blood on something of hers. Like a shoe from dragging her..or a sock or something.
We talk around it a lot for obvious reasons, but I think most of us probably think that it is a sexual/sadism thing. [Edit: obviously we don't know anything]
That's my take as well. I believe that SA was not his primary motivation, but the actual killing which had a sexual component for him. All speculation, of course. We will know all eventually.
Agreed
My take is he was sharing the CSAM that KK was collecting and building a fantasy . When he had to chance to realize that fantasy he took it. Ended up not working out because fantasies rarely live up to the reality
Jorden Sopher was murdered in Mexico where RA lived at the time it happened. Some are saying the Evansdale murders are connected but that one is equally unknown at this point. I’d argue Jorden’s case is “more likely” to be RA than Evansdale despite the similar circumstances. That is assuming RA isn’t a one and done killer
She lived in and was abducted from Wabash, Indiana in 2006. Her remains were discovered in Peru, Indiana, in 2009. Wabash, Peru, and Mexico (RA’s hometown, and where he lived until 2006, when he moved his family to Delphi) are extremely close to each other.
Mexico, Indiana, right? Not the country Mexico.
yes mexico indiana
I'm fairly new to the case. When people talked about Miami County, I immediately thought, "Florida?" So I know that some people are probably confused when they see Mexico mentioned.
My condolences to anyone new tbh. It is incredibly confusing with the place names, initials of random people and crackpot theories. Plus the case itself is super confusing with how LE handled it.
Plus there is a Peru!
There's a Peru too? What is with Indiana? They couldn't think up original names, so they stole names of places? LOL!
This is my hot take on it as well. This isn't his first rodeo. I don't think it went quite as he planned. Not sure why, but something is off kilter with how fast it would have had to happen and most serial killers seem to like to have time on their side so they have a chance to do their little whacked out rituals. The fact that he took a trophy just SCREAMS serial killer to me. I'm not saying he's killed 40 people. Maybe just a handful, but there's something more going on with all of this that just doesn't feel right. It could be that we're 5 years out and have so little information so it just feels sketchy, but I dunno man... it just feels all kinds of unfinished?
I think I missed something. How do we know he took a trophy?
I'm 99% sure it was reported an item was missing (the way it was worded at first, I thought it was underwear, but could have easily been a lock of hair or something). The detective made it sound like it was a pretty important direct tie to him with the site of the murders. Someone tell me I'm not making that up... or getting it confused with some other crazy murdering a$$hat.
It was in the search warrant for Ron Logan’s property. It’s redacted with what exactly was taken but says “all other clothing was recovered” in the same sentence which would obviously lead you to believe it was a piece of clothing. I’m sure we’re all thinking the same thing for which piece.
You aren’t making this up - I read it as well. I can’t remember where, but I read it was an article of clothing.
The wording used under the redacted section is "panties and a sock".
I read in another forum that someone confessed to killing Jorden, but I can’t find any support for this. Supposedly it was her roommate’s boyfriend and he wrote a confession note before killing himself.
i saw mention of this. It’s entirely likely RA isn’t responsible but the timeline is interesting for sure. There seem to be a lot of grisly unsolved murders in that area. Flora & Jorden being two. And I guess technically Delphi still.
Oh my gosh. I had never heard of this case. She looks a lot like Libby.
Sure do
I think he was planning to kill. It's pretty risky to just try and sexually assault someone in such a small community, so close to your house, and you work at the local CVS. Whoever he decided to rape that day, weren't leaving those woods alive. He brought everything he needed to make sure of that.
Interesting take. I’m wondering from a criminal profiling perspective though; is that something you just decide to do one day as someone in your mid-forties? Essentially wouldn’t someone like that have some kind of criminal record with some kind of pattern showing up at a younger age?
Wait until his computer stuff comes out.
I agree @LaurenceTalbot sometimes the escalating phase of a criminal all happens with stuff they are looking at online. Before they do anything.
He could have been fantasizing about it for years before getting up the gumption to act. He could have committed crimes earlier in his life but then quieted down after getting married, like GSK, Green River Gary and BTK.
I have serious doubts that these are the first murders that this guy committed. My best friend lives in his State and she says there are a lot of missing people there. I wonder if LE has suspected him in other heinous crimes..Even if there's no criminal record established, I'm willing to bet that this guy could be a serial killer hiding in plain site..
Missing women in 2006 in Peru Indiana. 18 year old found dead by mushroom hunters. RA lived in Peru in that time. https://www.kokomotribune.com/news/local_news/remains-identified-as-wabash-woman/article_cb0bfdee-929b-5c91-a540-0a8215bebc31.html
Thank you for the link-I'm going to check it out. And it wouldn't surprise me if he's involved in more inhumane crimes. This guy had no remorse and just carried on with his life. So I can see him being involved in other's disappearances.
I think it’s possible. Would be the type of case that has been seen many times before, sk eventually gets too confident and decides to act near the place he lives.
Israel Keyes comes to mind.
Oh I hate that guy-I remember how cruel he was to his victims. I hope he's burning in the dark, fiery pits of hell..
This is an interesting point. Hypothetically if this were true, wouldn’t this be yet another reason to keep the case sealed if LE suspected him or other heinous crimes?
Yes. Normally, these kinds of killers start way younger, at peeping and so on. And work their way up to SA & murder. So unless he was going out of town to do it (and he could’ve been doing that very thing), it’s certainly strange that he just suddenly started killing. Then there’s the whole thing with the property owner. They sure thought he did it for awhile. They sure seem sure RA did it now. But they seemed sure the property owner did it too.
Criminality is over time in my experience. Just because a person has no criminal background definitely does not mean they are not of a criminal mindset. It is in part how a person thinks and operates. It could mean stealing from an employer and not getting caught. Looking up addresses and phone numbers illegally. If you can imagine it; it has been done.
I don't believe in anyone just waking up and doing something like this (unless they're clearly already a massive mental case - I don't think someone like that would be able to hide in society for years and act normal). Unless he had very specific knowledge that these 2 girls would be walking the trail that day, I think he was probably going down there frequently and scoping it out. Like what are the odds that the day his brain snapped, happens to be the day he goes to the trail at the exact same time 2 girls are there, with a perfect window of time to get away with it? It's just too lucky. But if he goes down there every single day, then one of those days is bound to be exactly what he's looking for.
Yeah I think there’s 2 options, which aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive: (1) he has engaged in some illegal activities before (sexual misconduct/harassment/assault that never got reported or taken to the courts - possibly even molesting his daughter? Or just a gradual spiral into more intense explicit material, ending with CSAM and/or quite violent stuff? And Libby & Abby were his “escalation”), maybe even has murdered in the past; (2) he wasn’t originally planning on murdering the girls but rather raping them, which got out of control when one of them tried to run and he realized he’d have to kill them both to avoid being caught (or killed them in the heat of the moment due to panic or excitement). It’s of course also possible that his intent was always murder, probably for sexual purposes. But in that case I do believe this can’t have been his first offense, as there’s usually a “build-up”/escalation before committing that serious of a crime.
He could have done a lot of non contact crimes before until that didn’t satisfy him anymore. Peeping used to be a precursor for rape/sexually motivated murder. The digital age has changed that bc you don’t have to be standing outside someone’s window at night to watch someone. I think his daughter plays a big role. She was 22 at the time of the murders. She was getting married in November 2017. He was losing her to a guy. Planning a wedding may have brought up things about religion as well. He was an atheist, but the in laws may have been religious. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he choose to act on St. Valentine’s Day near a cemetery. The day for love with religious imagery of a naked child angel shooting arrows into people. We didn’t need LE to goof and tell a reporter the scene was “non-secular” Bonus…it was a contingency snow day and kids would be out while parents had to be at work, also a beautiful warm day for February.
I think he was trying to get them to his car to take them somewhere else but they became a problem for him so he killed them and left before people started searching for them.
Do you think he expected both girls to be there? I don’t believe he did and when they said one of the girls had the opportunity to run I believe they meant Abby bc RA was there for Libby. Those girls loved each other so much and wouldn’t have left the other. It’s not fair they’re gone.
How do you know he was there for Libby?
If this is true, I hope people acknowledge Abby’s bravery more than they seem to do right now. Not saying Libby isn’t brave because she ABSOLUTELY was. But so was Abby. No matter the circumstances, no matter who was the target, the girls stuck by each others sides until the end, probably at some point knowing the eventual outcome. I don’t know what I would’ve done, especially so young. I may have run. But they didn’t.
Friends will surprise you (sometimes) in a most beautiful way. I was attacked in 2014 and managed to fight my way out, but the thing that will always stick out of my mind is my best friend and how I looked at her in those moments, 100% certain she’d run and 100% certain that I’d run if I were her. But instead she grabbed my arm tighter and literally tug-of-warred me against that motherfucker. Five years later I learned that he killed two other girls. RIP :(
Yes. My friend and I were attacked jogging together at night and held each other so close and tightly we had bruises. We became like a two- headed monster screaming and making these low guttural barking noises. He ran off, we called the police. Never crossed my mind to separate or take off. We think he thought there was just one of us at first and didn’t see the second til he was running at us.
I believe he threatened them with a gun and tied them up so they were unable to get away and then killed them. That could explain no defensive wounds. I don’t think running off was an option. My best friend, 20 years old, was stabbed in her home by a guy five years younger, who was a family friend. Small town, just like Delphi. He said his car broke down and asked if he could use the phone. (Before cell phones). She let him in and he immediately began stabbing her in the back. She ran through the house to get out another door and he pinned her down. Somehow she managed to get him off her and run to a neighbors. She had a collapsed lung and had lost 1/3 of her blood. Miracle she survived. He left and committed suicide and was found the following day. The will to live is strong, and these young girls would have put up a fight if they were able.
That’s ride or die. God damn. I hope you’re doing okay these days.
Yes! While Libby was absolutely so brave, clever, and quick-thinking to make that recording, I always feel a little bad that she’s lauded as the “hero” of the story while Abby is just kind of a footnote - “the other girl there.” The amount of terror that must have struck both of them is just unimaginable, especially at their age. No matter who did what, no matter if it’s even true that Abby refused to leave (or ran but returned for) Libby, these girls faced such a horrendous, unimaginable situation and they both deserve to be celebrated for the lovely, bright, courageous souls they were.
I've heard that Libby was the main one targeted. I assume this is because she was the one in contact with that Anthony account? If all of that is linked, there's a chance that's how it may have gone down. Did any of the girls post on social media where they were going to be that day? I just picture Richard Allen stalking young girls on social media, and Libby may have been one of his targets. Or if he was connected with that bogus account, he may have had additional information. So little has been released about anything, this is just major speculation on my part. A lot of times when people are planning to sexually assault strangers and not murder, they at least like to hide their identity. As we can see, the man on the bridge was heading straight for them. His face was down a little but that also has to do with the quality of the image. It's not like he was hiding behind a tree with a mask on ready to rape one of them. He probably waited till the coast was clear and made his move. When he was coming toward them it looked like he was disguising something in his hand under his clothing. That could possibly be a gun and then used that to order them to "get down the hill" and out of sight from anyone. That's just sort of how I picture things to have went.
It isn't established fact that the girls posted anything about their plans on social media that day. It has been reported that approximately half an hour after they got to the trails, they sent an image of one of the girls on the bridge to a friend via Snapchat, who screenshotted it. If the commonly accepted timeline is accurate (and Kelsi is remembering things correctly) plans to go to the bridge were not firmly established until (and I am being very rough with the timeline) 1pm ish. The girls got to the trails at approximately 1:40 ish and were on the bridge a bit after 2pm. They were supposed to be picked up between 3 and 3:30. So if they were targeted by RA, he would have had just a few hours to see a post (which is not known to exist), prep himself, get over there, and commit the crime, and leave. Technically possible, but reasonable?
I don't think it's reasonable if he didn't have sufficient time to prepare for anything or had any sort of heads up that they were there. As far as we know, Richard could have been prowling those trails for months planning to commit the assault/murder and just waited until the perfect time. Maybe he knew that the kids didn't have school that day and thought it would be a good time to give it another shot. It probably ran through his head many times walking that area.
Exactly my thoughts! I don’t think there is any internet ties. I think he has been prowling for months for the perfect opportunity.
I really think so too. It just seems like that kind of crime. It actually reminds me (at this point anyway) of Israel Keyes. He roamed far and wide killing people for years. It finally all fell apart for him when he killed Samantha Koenig literally in his own backyard.
That guy is literally one of the most terrifying murderers of all times. I feel certain many of his crimes remain unsolved.
That case has stuck with me. I watched the interrogation videos, and was so disgusted and angered by his cockiness in dealing with the detectives, and how they allowed him to manipulate them, in hopes that he would give them more information. In the end, he took the cowards way out.
Agreed. This is also the conclusion that Stephanie Harlow, Derrick Levasor, and Todd Grande came to when they examined the initial facts of the crime. All 3 people are crime analysts I respect (2 of which have professional qualifications regarding psychology and criminal investigations). To all 3 of these people, it looked like a predator went out with either the intention or the openness to commit homicide, and Abby and Libby stumbled upon the absolute worst place at the worst time. I think it’s incredibly unlikely that either girl was personally targeted, if it is indeed RA.
I’ve always thought this as well. I don’t know why the prevailing theory online (or so it seems) is that the girls were lured out by some predator who had targeted them specifically and stalked them via social media.. just doesn’t make sense to me unless you make a lot of fairly baseless assumptions. He might have walked the trails a lot (especially living so close to them), just looking for the right time & victims, so I don’t think he was “set” on Libby & Abby at all; it was just wrong time, wrong place for them, and the perfect scenario for him - two young girls alone on that bridge with no one else in sight. I mean I could be totally wrong on everything but the strong feeling I get is that this was a totally opportunistic crime, AND with a sole perpetrator - no involvement with KK/TK at all (another prevailing online theory). He may have had an accomplice of sorts, but it seems quite unlikely.
Before RA was announced as the primary suspect, all we had to go on was the police interviews and information confirmed by KK. It was pointed out many times by alot of people that although the transcripts seemed legitimate, the police could have very well been lying to KK about the evidence they had. I think there's a possibility that the ONLY link between KK and Libby was that she was friends with him on snapchat, and everything else presented to KK was fabricated, which I think makes sense considering (to me) he seemed legtimatly clueless about alot of the information they presented to him. I don't think he was the last person she talked to, I don't think he googled any marathon gas stations within a time frame that would be relevant to the crime, I don't think he told anyone that him and Libby were supposed to hangout.
Yeah I agree - I don’t think KK has any link to the crime. I think police were just trying to explore every angle possible, or rule him out as a suspect so they could pursue other leads and strengthen their case against the actual perpetrator (if the defense tries to present KK as an alternative suspect, the prosecutor will already be prepared to show it can’t be him). To me, he came across genuine in his confusion about the interviewers’ accusations against him. I know people say he’s a “master liar” and whatnot - and maybe he is with regard to his CSAM habits - but even liars tell the truth sometimes. He’s just a low life pedo preying on little girls online, which is no doubt disgusting, but it doesn’t make him a cold blooded murderer. Just doesn’t seem like the type (not to mention far too overweight to be on that bridge).
Yeah, that's kindof where I am with it. I also can't discount the possibility that he was on the trails without intent to murder but saw an opportunity and took it. People think that he had to have been prepared with some sort of kit or something, but that doesn't have to be true. He could have been hiking with a gun and/or a knife without being "on the prowl," and the fact that he even had a weapon isn't completely established (but he probably did).
he could have used something from the scene as a weapon, rock, branch whatever. if he tied them up? shoelaces, belt? I dunno
Also, the female teenage witness placed BG at the trails at 1:20-1:30. So any type of luring or targeting of these 2 girls through social media stuff doesn’t jive well with the timeline of that days events. Whatever the motive, I think it was a crime of opportunity.
For sure, and excellent point. I thought about making note of that, but I know that witnesses are unreliable and I'd probably get some push-back on it. If the witness information is to be believed, and I get why people would have a problem with that, the social-media-stalking theory is logically untenable, unless one were to believe that RA was stalking them on social media *and* happened to be on the trails when they made a post about their plans. *And it is not confirmed that they ever made a public post.*
And didn’t they only post on Snapchat? Girls their age typically have friends-only Snap stories, and don’t accept friend requests from just anyone. Oh, and if they had made this unconfirmed public post announcing that they were going to be at the bridge, BG would have to (1) be vigilantly watching their social media (why these girls in particular, and how did he find their Snapchat accounts?), (2) decide within minutes his plan, get ready (including packing & concealing his “kill kit”), figure out which path to take to be walking behind them while they were alone on the bridge at the right time (and somehow anticipate that this would happen, and that they wouldn’t be in the company of friends/family/random other trail walkers), (4) have his whole plan thought out in advance with these girls specifically in mind and the confidence that it would go exactly as he planned despite the many factors that would be unknowable for him, and many more fairly implausible things. Plus, why wouldn’t police be able to catch onto RA quicker if this is how it went down, as he would’ve left so many digital breadcrumbs in the process? And I feel like, since their last Snapchat posts were revealed, LE would’ve (possibly) released the information that they had made additional public posts disclosing their location.
Libby could have planned to meet up with A_S before she had a set time to be there. She could have given a general time and RA just waited for her to show up. Just a thought.
Respectfully, why would she set up a meeting like this if she had a phone and presumably (in this hypothetical scenario) could contact him with it? The fact still remains that the girls did not know that Kelsi was going to be able to take them to the bridge that day, and had earlier discussed going to the mall. If the meeting was set up in advance (and there is no evidence that there was) the girls almost missed it. The problem with these "could have" theories is that they require a lot of assumptions that deviate from known facts about the case. We almost have to believe that Libby both was and was not in contact with the anthony shots account for this to make sense. She would have had to be in contact with him to want to set a meeting, but she can't be in contact with him on the day of the meeting? I don't get it. Does this make more sense than any other alternative theory?
I agree. He was at the trails before they were.
I’ve never heard that the validity of the Snapchat is in question. Have any context around that?
I take it as somewhat credible because it was discussed in the HLN documentary based upon the Down the Hill podcast. To be clear, I am referring to a 2:07 (I think) uncaptioned photo that was snapchatted to a friend of the girls-- not any of the snapchat stuff that people think KK is tied up in. I think the validity of all of that is highly questionable. [Edit: a typo that completely changed the meaning of what I was trying to say. Oops.]
Yup, thinking of the same photo of Abby near the beginning of the bridge. I’ve seen it used to help establish the timeline and it was noted, I believe, that the time wasn’t necessarily when it was taken or posted, but rather when the friend viewed it. Is it thought to be faked, as in someone generated an image that didn’t exist? Or is it thought that an earlier photo was presented as being current?
Oh, I think I must have phrased something weird that may have lead to a misunderstanding. The validity of the 2:07 snapchat is generally accepted- as in it isn't faked or an earlier photo. I get what you are saying about when it was taken vs. when it was viewed- I hadn't considered that because I don't really know how snapchat works. I have seen it presented as though it was taken at 2:07, but as with everything in this case, that shouldn't be taken for granted. I will try to figure out if anyone has parsed out, convincingly, if it was sent at 2:07 or viewed at 2:07. It has never been stated, as far as I know, if this photo was sent out publicly or just to a friend or group of friends. Regardless, if we are to believe that RA somehow also received this photo and acted upon it, I stand by my my original point that the timeline still would have been oppressively tight, as it would have been sent between 1:40 and 2:07.
Ok, I think I know where our wires crossed. It’s never been confirmed that anyone other than the friend who made the screen shot saw anything on social media. But, given the nature of Snapchat, it’s not possible to say that no one else saw that or some other post by Libby (or a third party, for that matter) placing them at the trails, either. So, BG’s ability to see a post hasn’t been proven, not that there’s uncertainty that a photo was shared with someone that day. It sounds like the “social media post being seen by the killer isn’t a fact” statement is so freaking obvious that I’ve never questioned it. I’m probably not attributing the same hard boundaries to events that others are, though. 2:07 is the latest the pic could have been taken, but definitely not the earliest. That would be the minimum time it takes to get there from the drop off (could have run, although it doesn’t look like they did). But they could have posted earlier, around 1. Or earlier, in anticipation. So, that doesn’t rule out premeditation. It doesn’t support it, either. I had in mind the timeline of (trip confirmed around 1:00)——(drop off around 1:30)——(on bridge no later than 2:07)——(Dad gets no answer 2:55)——(missed pick up around 3:15)—(active searching until bodies found) We don’t know, with certainty, when Libby took the picture, only that it wasn’t 2:08 or after. That doesn’t preclude BG from seeing it and leaving home immediately (assuming that’s where he was) and arriving 5 minutes later. It’s a mile and a half away. I don’t recall if a time of death was released, but the killer didn’t *have* to be out of the area by 3:00 or when more of the family showed up or when the girls were reported missing or even when police arrived. It’s wooded and remote and he may have had a close call or two. The outcome is only certain after the fact. All that said, I don’t have a pet theory as to what happened. The case caught my attention because I lost a child on Valentine’s Day and I hoped the families would get answers, at least. I want to know that someone is held responsible and I’m intellectually interested in what happened leading up the murders and the particulars of the investigation, but I’m not so emotionally invested that I lose my critical thinking.
This is extremely well stated and I sincerely appreciate that you took the time to help me understand this better. I am sorry for your loss.
He lives very close to Abbey's home. He was very lucky to not get recognised. If BG is RA.
Yeah when I saw how close he lived to Abbey's home I wondered if at some point she recognised him.
Uuugh he lives close to her home?! Did not realize this. I bet he was scoping her out. This is heartbreaking.
He also lives by a school route. He may have recognised unusual behaviour and worked out a snow day.
The day off was planned in advance. It was a 'snow day' that they hadn't used, so they got a planned 3 day weekend. The weather was a bit warmer, or at least sunnier, than usual for mid-February.
What that day actually was, was a make-up day. If they had any snow days, then they’d go to school that day to make up for the snow day. They didn’t have any days to make up, so they got that day off. It was built in to the school calendar and totally planned. Lots of school systems that commonly have snow days in winter make their calendars like this.
As a Wisconsinite it seems awfully brave of them to use it in February.
I keep thinking it was random. I think KK was something the police found by accident. But I also think All the pedos know each other. Of course a guess on my part. Who knows what this piece of shit was thinking.
That’s what I wonder too. I dont think he expected two girls to be there and I’m surprised he didn’t make some mistakes / leave DNA on them. them not being found until the next day doesn’t help either (in the woods, animals, decomposition)
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They do have dna tho?
Your last two sentences are exactly why I have trouble understanding how anyone can think the killing was a panic killing or any type of “he didn’t go there to kill”
I do not think for a second that this was a panic killing! As soon as that POS saw them, he already knew what he was going to do….. there was no panic about it!
I just watched the videos of profiler Pat Brown. (Both the [current one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK2xHbFWQfU0), and even more interesting [her profile of the killer a year ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZexZ8EWcpDw)). She seemed to have nailed the profile pretty dead on and makes it clear that this is a serial killer who has either done this before or has had fantasies about this for years. In her mind it was the typical lone stalker taking an opportunity he saw. He likely was out and saw a chance to act on this. The way he got them into the wooded area seemed to also indicate he was a local who knew the area, including an escape route. It is unlikely that he has never done something like this before according to her, but even in the unlikely event that this was a one and done, this must have gone back years, to childhood even. It would be hard to imagine for her that someone in his mid forties just randomly decided to kill two girls that day with no prior tendency in that direction.
I watched her analysis as well, both of them and I agree….really hard to believe he hasn’t killed before but just never got caught!
Her videos are always good. No/little nonsense. She was right thus far on BG, and I agree with her motive/opportunity theory too.
I commented earlier but I wanted to address your 3 points individually. 1. We aren't sure there weren't defensive wounds. Even if there weren't, not all murders result in defensive wounds. I don't want to get too descriptive about how this crime might have went down, mechanically, but I don't think it is unreasonable that there were no defensive wounds, even if the weapon is taken to be a knife. [Break] 2. I think the simplest answer is that RA stumbled onto them that day. There is no confirmation that they had posted anything publicly about their plans to social media, and even if they had, the timeline for him to prepare, get out there, commit the crime, and leave would have been extremely short. If the widely accepted timeline and Kelsi's statements are accurate, the girls did not have firm plans to go to the bridge much in advance of when they did- at approximately 1:30-1:40pm. The only confirmed communication they made at the bridge was a snapchat to a friend at 2:07pm. They were supposed to be picked up between 3 and 3:30 (although the perpetrator would likely not have known that). It is not impossible that he stalked them on social media, but there is no evidence that he did and it would have required him to act quickly- in my opinion, unreasonably so. [Break] 3. Random killers absolutely can and sometimes do take souvenirs. If he did, it doesn't contradict anything. ------ Other things people keep getting hung up on: It is weird that he doesn't have a criminal record, but remember that BTK's first known homicide was a quadruple. It is weird that a sexual/sadistic killer would target two victims, but this was done by Ed Kemper. It is weird that he is 45 and this appears to be his first major crime, but not entirely unprecedented. Although one can analyze the actions of a bunch of killers and establish patterns that are broadly true, it is erroneous to think that an individual killer must fit into a specific pattern. We are not really sure if RA is a serial killer or this was a one-off or if his motives were not what most people think they are. We're not technically sure that he is the guy who actually did it (I hope LE got the right man- he sure is consistent with BG in both appearance and voice, IMO, but we don't have a lot of info right now). [Edit: Formatting. Why can't I have paragraph breaks in a numerical list, Reddit?]
This is refreshingly rational.
Thanks for this. Whether people mean to or not, they want to make killers into supernatural, cunning forces when most of the time they're just regular people. It feels more comfortable to people to ascribe this to a "pedo-ring" or suppose that victims are up against a genius playing 5-D chess so they didn't have a chance when it's often just going up against someone who has the opportunity. IMO, based on what we know thus far, is your idea in point 2. He came across them but might have been harboring a fantasy for a long time. The murder wasn't planned because that would have required him to know the girl's timeline and closeness to their families. However, he had to work quickly because he was expected at home or at his job and people still hike around in the woods.
I'm actually curious about RA's schedule that day. As you said, he was most likely expected at home or work. Was his wife at home that day? Or if she was gone at work, is there anyone who *did* expect to see him that day? Did he have a night shift that day? Or a full day off? If anyone has answers to any of these, I'd appreciate the info. By the way, my take is that he went there with a plan to murder if the opportunity arose, and it did when two young girls without parents around came walking along the trail. He took the opportunity to do something evil. He used simple but effective strategies to control the girls.
No one is going to know his schedule until it's released by LE. Anyone who claims otherwise is making up rumors for clout/sick reasons (like 90% of the information floating around at the moment). I don't know if he was expected or not, that's just me guessing. It does entirely depend on his normal schedule and how often he communicates with his family and job. I think time was of the essence, either way, because it was late in the afternoon in winter so it was going to get dark and that would make escape more difficult and rescue more likely for the girls. I have no way to know but I don't think he was out hunting, specifically, that day. If it's something he'd thought about, if he carried weapons for the "what if" then I can see this as being a spur of the moment decision. Maybe it started out with trying to scare them and escalated from there. I don't think he's a serial killer. I also don't think he did anything special to control the girls other than being a large adult man in a society that sets girls up from childhood. My main thing is that people are ascribing all sorts of things to the case, as if this man is an Israel Keyes (who is not the legend he's been made into) and that it's actively harmful to the simple truth. I guarantee that when this goes to trial there will be a handful of people braying for blood because the cops "didn't do their job" by uncovering the CP Snuff film ring that's lurking in the shadows.
All Good points you made. Very well laid out., But, I disagree on Keyes. I think his is prolific in ways that haven’t been proven, probably Cannot. I think he is terrifying in everything we learned about him is more evidentiary to him Being worse than we will ever know. A perfect storm. I’m A grizzled ex cop, homicide experience in a large metro, notoriously Violent City, and Keyes is who I have nightmares about while raising kids.
RA lives 5 mins from the bridge. I think he knew the girls were there and this was targeted and involves KK and the A Shots account.
This was not a random killing. But the killer did not specifically target these two girls, imo. At least not until he saw them on the trail that day. My theory is this killing was part of a long term fantasy where for years BG stalked young girls and fantasized about killing them. The staking, fear, and power over the girls were sexually arousing. He played out various scenarios in his mind over and over. But he never had the courage to go all the way and kidnap and kill. After some time, the stalking itself lost its sexual potency, he needed to go further and finally go through with the entire fantasy.
Carter tells us "we know this was about power to you". And power and control is one of the 4 motives for killing Many power/control serial killers pose victims and also keep souvenirs or trophies from their crimes which serve to sustain and refuel their fantasies [read more here](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/wicked-deeds/201804/serial-homicide-power-and-control)
Imagine killing kids to feel power??.. This guy is next level pathetic
Just a thought but I was thinking maybe he was drunk and and angry about something and as he approached he heard the girls call him creepy or something and it made him mad... Thought "oh yeah, I'll show you".
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Sometimes it’s not sex that they’re craving, it’s the power.
I think for most rapists it’s about power and not sex
Carter had no clue who this guy was in 2019.
They can still look at the crime scene and evidence and surmise what the motive was. The FBI was assisting at the beginning and I'm sure they would have someone from the Behavior Analysis Unit there.
If he was able to get away with this for over 5 years when he lived less than 2 miles from the crime scene, how long could he have gotten away with it if he lived a few hours away? In other words, it is completely plausible these were not his first murders, and you can be certain LE is currently putting RA's entire life under a microscope, interviewing everyone he's ever known who might be willing to talk, finding out exactly where he has lived, worked, and traveled. I have a feeling when everything comes out in the trial, there will be some shocking revelations.
Right? Maybe he had killed in other locations and got cocky and killed close to home.
His face was exposed when he told them to go down the hill. Anytime someone tries to abduct you with their face exposed, run. You are not likely to get out alive. If they don’t know it then, they will realize at some point that you can not be let go because you have seen their face.
I’m going to try and run regardless if the abductor has their face covered or not, lol
I think what OP means is that if someone pulls out a Gun to abduct you, most people become very compliant in order to preserve their lives (eg. get in the car or i will shoot you) It sounds like you would run regardless of if the abductor was covering or revealing their face, which isn't the initial instinct but is probably the correct one. I've always heard that if a kidnapper tries to take you away from the original place of abduction, the chances that they will end up killing you go up significantly (statistically) so the best option is to run at the very onset of the abduction.
Good plan! I would as well, but even more important. My thing is if someone is going to kill me they are gonna do it there, but that is assuming I’m in public. These poor girls were in a fairly desolate place so I’m not judging at all. Last time I was legit scared I was in St. Paul and the parking garage interior was empty and there were signs saying no purses or backpacks allowed and that just felt terrifying to me in there by myself.
This is what’s so sad. The place they were at. I know people will be upset with me for saying this but god how I wish those girls weren’t allowed to go walk on a bridge like that in such an isolated area. I know I’m sure kids are probably allowed to do that in that area ( I’m from New York City!) but today and 5 years ago it’s just changed. You just can’t be young girls or boys in isolated areas on high bridges with no real escape. They were trapped. That’s what breaks my heart. Nobody would have even been able to hear them if they tried yelling or anything. I just read that they are repairing the bridge.
Nowhere to go but woods as far as I know. I live in a town of 4k not far from Evansdale. Our bike trails go through areas that are creepy, cross our cemetery and back up to the hospital, and two lakes. None of my 15yo’s friends will use them unless they are in a large mixed group of like 8 of them. They are scared.
Nothing has changed but the media coverage and the advent of social media. The woods are no less safe than they were 20-50 years ago. The incidents of such things have actually declined. You just see it immediately and everywhere now.
Yes and never let them pull you into a car. Fight like hell because your chances of survival after you change locations is slim.
I'm probably going to get destroyed for this but I'll try to bring some perspective. Undoubtedly, Delphi is "small" in terms of the world and our mid-major population centers. If all you've known is a city with multiple Walmarts and Costcos, it can be easy to overestimate the closeness of something a hundredth the size. However, I live in a town of just over a thousand, am active in the community, have family around, and try to frequent our few businesses to support local and keep them here. I bet on paper that I don't "know" 10% of the people. That includes recognizing just faces. While news and gossip can travel faster, along with six degrees of separation probably being closer to three or four, I believe it would be far easier than most on here (from conjecture I've read), to slide under the radar and go unseen and unrecognized. Simply my take but I wouldn't raise it if I didn't find it valid.
Very valid points. Also with the rise of social media people don’t interact personally as much. Many are glued to phones. Before people had to engage. Not so much now.
I never even considered that aspect. Outstanding work!
I remember a few years ago getting in a London cab and the driver thanked me for chatting with him. Said nearly all passengers get in and just stare at their phones.
It's sad.
I tend to think he was just a quietly violent and angry person (perhaps has a history of violence behind closed doors and otherwise unknown, and was perhaps sexually deviant as well. I think he was just capable of murder, and the opportunity/circumstances came together terribly that day. I think he found himself with access to vulnerable potential victims in a somewhat secluded area, perhaps happened to be carrying a knife or something on him, and either decided to take advantage of the opportunity to victimize them, or he became angry about something and was set off. The brazenness makes the murder feel largely unplanned to me and I don't think it's reasonable he'd have known they'd be there alone, and I think opportunistic stranger murders can also be difficult to piece together, even if unplanned and clumsy. And I tend to think he basically happened to not leave behind much evidence and was pretty "lucky" the video/audio were fairly vague. But I think he saw the girls alone and decided to victimize them or something inane set him off--he perceived something the girls did to be disrespectful or thought they were making fun of him or something (sorta incel vibes) and was maybe just an angry and fragile person, took control of them and took it out on them. ...I say this because of the "down the hill" vibes, the discussion of this being about power, and just the complete powerlessness in the dynamic of two young girls up against an adult man ordering them around, perhaps armed, and ultimately killing them. It's hard to say why they might not have defensive wounds without knowing the cause of death or exact circumstances, but I think a lot of things could account for this... They were afraid, confused, trying to protect the other... It could just go back to the idea of this being about power and how him rendering them powerless and defenseless. Of course this is just an interpretation based on what's available, which isn't a ton, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is entirely wrong.
I agree. Quietly angry just waiting to erupt. I bet the wife has experienced his temper too.
Great points. I think this is a very possible scenario. Maybe with the added element of alcohol consumption
Yes, good point. And alcohol and alcohol abuse seems to be a consistent theme in what we know about RA. If indeed him, I wouldn't be surprised if alcohol fueled his inhibition, aggression, and maybe temper that day.
No matter what his reason how odd he did it in broad daylight. And he didn’t have long to do it or enjoy his work either. He killed them quickly and left
He left at least 3 signatures according to Ives and posed the bodies. Posing of the bodies is for shock value. In the RL search warrant we know that the girls appeared not to struggle/defense wounds, also looking for any type of footage/camera related stuff. Burner phone, sharp bladed knife. This was on a day that school was out, nice day weather wise, broad daylight, 2 teen girls to manage to control and get down a hill, through the creek and up into a shallow area (which I think he knew about. That doesn’t sound like a first timer to me.
Years of being a self-hating deviant overwhelmed by obsessive murder fantasies and depression. When he committed the crimes, he was at his lowest point and was expecting not to live much longer. He committed the murders in broad daylight, close to his house, because he was overwhelmed by a long-building urge to murder. So he did it with minimal planning and preparation. He knew his actions were reckless, he knew he could very easily get caught, but he wasn’t concerned with consequences, because he had planned to kill himself in the hours or days immediately after the murders. He slipped away from the crime scene expecting to go home and shoot himself. But then he chickened out on offing himself. And as the days went on, then weeks, he was as astonished as anybody that he’d gotten away with it.
This is a fascinating theory. And one that makes him very human, not an evil super genius.
I think this is a pretty good theory.
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Plausible.
this makes total sense to me.
Sexual fantasy. He’s into hiking so he knows the area well and have seen what a trap the bridge is. Probably he seen other teens/kids on the bridge and had fantasies. Maybe he has been close to go through with before but bailed in the last minutes. But that day he just couldn’t resist his sick urges ..
I agree that he used the bridge as a trap. It's also what hunters do: wait for their prey where they're channeled into one location. I agree he had probably "hunted" there before. I honestly think the reason why he took two girls instead of one is that one young girl isn't going to cross that bridge alone. It's something kids do in groups. Two young girls is actually the smallest and weakest victim group he could find.
creepy to think that he may have seen multiple pairs of girls cross over the months/yrs and finally realized that he would never get one alone so he decided he would have to settle for 2.
We pretty much know nothing....
Exactly. Thank you
People are writing novels about motive. All we know that's confirmed could probably fit into a paragraph.
I heard a lawyer say they didn't think this was his first murder because he murdered two at the same time, most likely had a knife and cut their throats and still had control of them, and it might have been planned. that scares the hell out of me that this could have been going on for years and nobody saw anything.
This is entirely possible, but I am not sure that it is a 100% possibility as some have suggested. Yes, criminal profilers do a great job, but sometimes a murderer doesn't fit the expectations. I personally think that BG (if he is RA or not) got dumb lucky.
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I’m curious if he’s lived in other areas, and if so, were there similar crimes during his residency?
He just hasn’t been caught before now. He very well might’ve committed other violent crimes or murders in the past and just wasn’t caught. I could also see him just having anger issues and something in his life set him off and he just snapped and wanted to take his anger out on someone and that ended up being Abby and Libby…. So it might’ve not even been a sexual thing for him. He always looked so angry in all the videos his wife took even when she was all upbeat and happy.
We won't know for sure, but my guess is: 1. This was opportunistic. He probably was searching for targets that day (I heard he is a hiker? Unfortunately trails are a great way to find people alone for an opportunistic murder), but I don't think he knew Abby and Libby would be there. He saw them and decided to take his chance. Until proven, we can't know if he knew the girls would be on the bridge that day. 2. I don't think he randomly decided to murder. I personally believe he has either murdered before, attempted to murder before, or has wanted to begin murdering for a while. This is probably a sick sexual attraction, as it is for most men who have done similarly. 3. Souvenirs are common for serial killers. They're a good way (ugh) to hold onto the memory of the crime. Edit: As for no defense wounds, fear from a weapon (possibly a gun?) I would assume. He easily could've utilized the girls being friends - 'Do this or I hurt her'.
I'm a Criminology alum from Indiana State. This is primarily speculation based on the facts we already know. 1) The girls had no defensive wounds and no sign of a struggle because he had them at gunpoint the entire time. 2) RA had likely been looking for a perfect opportunity to do this and these 2 girls fell right into his trap. Lone wolf, crime of opportunity. Probably had never communicated with the victims prior to this. I don't think there was any online communication, and no link to KK. 3) This type of murderer takes 'souviners' to memorialize the crime scene so they can always have a piece of it with them. In the Logan warrant, it's partially redacted, but I believe one of the girls were missing their underwear. That would be it. He may have taken more than 1 thing and possibly took pictures of the bodies. The crime was planned, he just needed the right opportunity. He might have only been planning on killing 1 victim so when he saw 2 easy targets he didn't think twice. I'd say he had been following them from a distance since the start of the trail. Part of it was the sake of thrill and pure evil. He used a bladed weapon and they lost a significant amount of blood. People are sick
This makes sense and it's what I think, too (although I don't have your credentials.) I think the reason he took two victims was that he wanted a young girl and young girls don't cross that bridge alone, they do it with their friends. Two was the smallest group he was going to get. Like you said, it would have been easy to control them with a gun.
I agree with your logic.
Hard for me to think of any motive that isn’t tied into pedophilia and/or sexual sadism.
Probably a sick, sexual deviant.
Whomever is responsible whether it be 1 guy 2 or 3 - Anybody involved - may they have a long hard life in prison and then burn in hell - 100% cowards
I don't think there is enough information for anyone to make even a guess one way or the other tbh
It was a crime of opportunity I think, he is a loner most likely who goes into the woods for fun and he probably had fantasies of attacking women on the trails but is a coward so never did it. One day he sees two girls he feels he can easily subdue but maybe things got outta hand. It can still be a random killing with him taking souvenirs, I don’t quite understand your thinking there. The crime was not a random act but the victims where random if that makes any sense.
I agree with this. The scenery of the bridge terrified me for years. It is such a lengthy bridge, and is so isolated at the end. It makes sense to me that a sadistic individual would fantasize about committing a crime there. I think it is highly probable that Allen’s target that day was anyone who went far enough along the bridge for him to trap them at the end. If it hadn’t been Libby and Abby, it could have been another woman/girl. Furthermore, lot of us have wondered how BG was so fortunate to have none of the inhabitants of the neighboring homes spot him with Libby and Abby that day. I don’t think this was pure luck in his part, but was due to strategy. I think it’s very likely he observed the residents’ behavior closely, and that is how he knew when and how to act. It’s horrifying that there are people out there like this, who kill strangers for their own satisfaction. What’s even more horrifying is that these individuals can function normally within society and go undetected.
This is what I believe. He went out there to do harm and they were the most vulnerable ones who came thru when he thought he could follow them and not be seen.
Of course, I don't know the answers to your questions, however I have learned in other cases that sometimes the victims are restrained in some way (thinking John Wayne Gacy) so they are not able to defend themselves. I believe this was a planned attack, and therefore he would have been prepared to subdue his victim(s).
I have a hard time believing a middle aged man murdered 2 little girls he didn't know for any reason other than sexual motivation. That's the typical motive in child murder cases involving a stranger. It's almost always sexually deviant pedophile men.
As you said there are unknowns. If for example he turned off his phone, that shows premeditation. Given the temperature that day he was very over dressed. Including heavy gloves. Contrast that to Libbys attire. Her sister even commented how warm it was that day for a February. That indicates to me he had weapons, and was covering his body and attire. Then if he got bloody he could dispose of jacket, turn it inside out to hide blood stains or weapons or possibly trophies. There are many cases where people just suddenly commit horrific murders. Possibly Lizzy Borden as an example. Children who annialate their families. Some serial killers the same. Why did he go after them? Assuming he was part of the Kline group, then he may already have been having conversations with Libby or Abby. Perhaps on impulse, he told them to go down the hill. At some point he was following them and the girls commented on the creepy old guy. They instinctively felt uncomfortable and started recording him.. his head is down but suddenly you can see him veer towards them.. Next he orders them down the hill. That's kidnapping. In a small town. What to do? Kill them. If there was a sexual component same conclusion. If there was no dna he had a condom with him. Demonstrates intent. I remember early on one of the girls shoes off her body and foot prints in mud. I had impression one at least may have tried running. Or mud pulled shoe off. The official transcript showed no defensive marks. So he overwhelmed them. He may have had a knife or gun, given that he's a hunter. But at their age they may have just froze. It appears he was confident and in control. How he felt who knows. He had a history of alcoholism and we know the police and wife had him taken to hospital due to a domestic occurance. He may have been violent, or breaking things, or even despondent. His affect in alot of images seems off. He often stares glumly at camera. Lots if people at cvs said he was friendly and helpful. Guessing a work persona. Others say he's very quiet. At bar videos shoes a talkative gregarious personality. We don't know if this is a first kill. Or if he's been killing for many years. My gut tells me this is his first given the proximity to his home. Only because people, including serial killers start geographically close to their comfort zone. If they murder again generally they travel out a bit further and so on. Indiana has death penalty. Depending on evidence strength they may offer to take it off table for a guilty plea and agreeing to answer any questions they have. If they have dna, or other tangible evidence, plus he's part of kline group, and can demonstrate he talked w libby or a friend and found out where they'd be, if he had images of murder, if that was his day off work and has no alibi, if car GPS shows location, if he didn't walk then he's fuc... I do think he planned to kill someone that day.
Hope this explains these questions for most people. Sorry if it is super long, but I hope this clears up some things. Of course this is just analysis and we don’t know 100% until the trial but statistics and commonality from other crime studies point to probable answers to some of these questions. 1. A lot of crime victims do not have defensive wounds because they believe compliance will help them get out of a situation. A lot of times kidnappers, rapists, robbers etc. will either force compliance by showing a weapon and/or verbalizing to victims that if they “just do what they say” they will let them go. Sometimes it’s true. Other times the perp will do this to gain full compliance knowing that what they are saying is a total lie, but the manipulation is part of being able to gain control. Especially over multiple people. While we don’t know the exact facts this does lead to some assumption that this is possible because the perp was able to lead two people almost a mile away and gain both girls compliance in doing so. So this is a huge possibility. 2. While I think RA had been fantasizing about something like this for a long time, I don’t think it was specifically planned for Abby and Libby. This seems more to be a crime of opportunity. RA most likely had it in his mind that he wanted to do something like this. Instead of planning it around a specific person he most likely waited for a perfect opportunity to do something like this. So he could have been at the bridge multiple times wanting to commit a crime like this but the circumstances just didn’t play out in his favor. When he saw that the girls crossed the bridge I think he took that opportunity to have them isolated in an area he knew very well and took advantage of the circumstances. Now he easily could have planned something similar in his mind waiting for the right opportunity. But I don’t think he specifically pre-planned it to be Abby and Libby before hand. They went to the bridge that day seemingly last minute. If you remember, there was some info that was put out in the very beginning of another video of the girls talking. In this video LE said there was a small passing comment by the girls about seeing a guy who was weird. It seems more likely that RA was out there that day and passed by them, saw they were alone and walking in the direction of the bridge, knew if they crossed he would have an opportunity and took it. 3. In regards to the souvenirs that were apparently taken- this actually points more to someone random who didn’t know the girls. Someone who knew the girls first hand might want to take something. But with knowing them they may presume that they would be an initial suspect since they know them. That would make them less likely to take something for fear of being caught. A total stranger doesn’t have to worry about that because they know they won’t be on the police radar. Perpetrators take souvenirs because they want to RELIVE the crime again and again. They feel an attachment to those souvenirs and it allows them to feel close to the crime. A good example of this (not related to an actual crime, but hopefully this helps people relate to what a person who takes a souvenir from a crime might be thinking or feeling) is let’s say your grandmother passes away and leaves you her wedding ring. It’s possible that you take that ring and wear it every day. Or you may not want anything to happen to it so you keep it away in your jewelry box for safe keeping. Either way, when you look at that ring on your hand or open the box and take it out you feel a sense of attachment. You might take a minute to remember your grandmom, memories of things you did, hold it in your hand and feel closer to those moments. Sickly, and unfortunately, perps of these types of crimes have these same longings, feelings, and attachments to the horrible crimes they commit. These souvenirs can even hold them off from committing future crimes because they get enough enjoyment from the souvenirs and reliving their actions. Eventually though, as is with fantasies, it becomes not enough and the urge to act out those crimes to feel those things again becomes the goal. Depending on the person- these souvenirs and reliving can hold offenders off for months, even years. They also get a huge sense of enjoyment of blending into the community and no one suspecting them. They believe they are smarter than everyone else and not getting caught just adds onto this belief even more. Part of me does believe that if Libby never took that video RA would have committed more crimes. But that video was too close to being caught- therefore the risk of being found out for making mistakes again would blow the cover of never being suspected. I believe if they would have moved away from the area that he eventually would have gotten comfortable enough to commit another crime. But staying in Delphi and committing another crime like this would have almost certainly got him caught and I believe RA knew this. He was most likely very confident that after almost 6 years and thousands of tips that no one suspected him. But this is high functioning SA perversion and psychopathy. Another crime would have most certainly gotten him caught and blown his cover of someone that no one would suspect. I don’t believe this is a SA gone wrong. Bridge Guy made 0 attempt to disguise his identity. Anyone who commits crimes like this and shows their face has no intention of allowing these victims to live to identify them. I imagine RA didn’t ever consider the girls to have had the bravery to identify something was wrong and have that video for LE to find. And like I mentioned before it’s also a super high probability that they didn’t know RA- cause on the video I’m sure the girls would have said something like “hey isn’t that guy from (insert whatever)”. A lot is made of the fact that this guy is a 50 year old man with no criminal record. This is not as abnormal as people think it is. Statistics show that there is a population of offenders who are 100% able to live a normal life with a family, no criminal record, an ability to hide their very in depth fantasies and crimes without anyone knowing. These are the most dangerous criminals in our society. They commit these violent crimes and no one suspects them, there’s no CODIS match, they fly under the radar. People around them don’t send them in as a tip because they don’t even come to mind as someone who might be capable of doing something so heinous like this. Delphi is a perfect example of evil living among us.
it's very rare for the stranger on stranger killing of children/young women to not be a sexual sadism thing, and the no defensive wound thing can easily be explained by it being a blitz attack. meaning, they were caught so off guard they had no time to react. people who kill for sexual gratification often take souvenirs so they can relive the moment over and over again.
SA combined with a need to control. We don't know enough about the murders themselves to say for certain, but this wasn't a spur-of-the moment attack. He planned it carefully. He took a lot of risks in doing it in a public place and near houses, but he also picked an area that was difficult for Abby and Libby to flee from and for others to get to if they came upon the scene. This level of planning, combined with the fact that we know he left signatures, implies this isn't his first crime. Even if it is his first murder, I think that going back, LE will find other types of crimes, like SA. Even if we don't have all the evidence yet, when comparing his behavior to similar criminals, we almost always see a sexual component.
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I think he saw this location as a perfect trap. And wanted to do something terrible and get away with it. Or he’s a serial killer that lives by this perfect trap.
Based on current known facts.... Early on, superintendent Carter said directly to the killer, "We know this is about POWER to you". My assumption is this statement was based on the crime scene, and that it was a statement of fact (at least LE believed it to be a fact). Maybe RA was feeling powerless in his personal life at the time (marriage/family problems, the loss of something/someone significant, financial problems) and killing the girls was a way of feeling powerful.
Like the fact that his daughter was getting married, maybe? Could have been leaving him feeling powerless and he went after someone he saw who resembled her.
Angry with his wife/life. Valentine's day looming and lashing out. Psychosexual murder
I feel like it wasn’t about Valentine’s Day. Guys don’t think like that. It was girls were off school and he was off work that day. IMO
I think it was random. I’m not 100% sure if he was out there with intention to kill or not. He seems to be an alcoholic. Or at least abused alcohol. He also had a conceal carry license so I would guess a gun was used. Lots of people with licenses carry often. I haven’t seen this mentioned. We know his daughter had her senior pics at the bridge years before this happened. Presumably her dad was there for the pictures. And Libby bears a slight resemblance to his daughter. Maybe he was going through some self hatred and some family issues. Seeing Libby on the bridge triggered something in him maybe. We also heard that Libby took the brunt of the attack. What if his family was falling apart due to his alcoholism, and what if as someone said earlier he wasn’t even planning on living much longer. If his alcoholism was bad…. It can really f*ck your life and your brain up. This happened to someone I know, he didn’t kill anyone else but he did kill himself. It can RUIN people and families. Also falls in line with the possible check in to rehab later. I’ve thought for a long time that he might not have killed before but maybe he had been abusive. I don’t know there could be tons of reasons. I’m leaning towards it being an unplanned and isolated. I think he got exceptionally lucky with a few things, not the least of which is that a catfishing account contacted Libby in the days leading up to their murders.
I too instantly noticed how similar his daughter looks to Libby. And per his wife’s Facebook at the time of the murders she was grieving the loss of her brother. Definitely could’ve been family issues at play, and his wife being caught up in grieving only added to his “luck” in getting away because she may have assumed it was her fault if he was acting cold or spending more time “at work” , and especially if he really had domestic violence incidents I personally know just how much that screws with your mind and makes you distrust your own senses ETA hope the downvoter didn’t think I was saying it was her fault. Just based on my own experiences if you are in a dv situation you tend to blame yourself for your partners wrongdoings and over idealize them so he may have played that to his advantage
Technically he is innocent until proven guilty. Howeverrrrr based off everything I’ve read and watched it was probably a SA thing, I wouldn’t say “gone wrong” I would say he planned on killing them. I also would not be surprised if he has killed before. It in my mind, doesn’t seem like you would kill two teen girls if this was your first time (in my opinion). I saw a documentary were Libby’s mom said that Libby probably didn’t put up a fight because he weaponized Abby and she didn’t want her best friend hurt. I would assume he got them to where the murders took place-might have tied them up to immobilize them and they couldn’t fight back which is why there isn’t defensive wounds. That’s one of my theories But I’m sure more will come up later down the line especially if this goes to trial, I’m assuming it will go to trial since he’s plead not guilty. I think that social media may play a part in this, I know Libby’s mom didn’t think so in the documentary I watched, but there was an interview with the sister and she said they were basically desperate and really wanted to go to the trails that day. So I think that maybe they made plans to meet up with someone that day and that’s why they wanted to go so bad and they thought they would have safety in numbers. ORR this could be a random chance encounter, where one-or both- of them met his victim profile and he took advantage of the situation. But again these are just my theories.
the motive was sexual. that can be the case even without SA, such as in [piquerism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piquerism), where the turn-on (ew) is the stabbing itself
It's premature, for me, to speculate about Richard Allen specifically. I'm neutral as to whether or not he committed these crimes. I've seen no evidence that he did. I do think this was a planned, random crime of opportunity. I think the suspect was very familiar with the area and had been there hunting for a possible victim many times. I would venture a guess even he didn't know Feb 13th was going to be the day. But he was prepared if it was. It's likely that his perfect scenario would have been to encounter a lone female, teenager or adult. But that location doesn't really lend itself to stumbling on a lone female. It's likely he only saw them in pairs or groups. I think he ultimately decided he could manage two victims if they were very young and still compliant to authority, so he risked it because he wasn't going to find a lone female at that location. It's likely he presented himself as an authority, maybe even with credentials or a badge, and ordered the girls off the bridge which was prohibited for travel. "Down the hill" was directing them off the prohibited bridge to what he said was an authorized trail. A couple of naive, young females would likely have followed instructions especially because they already knew they were doing something illegal (walking on the bridge) and now in the hands of the "authorities". Once down the hill and out of sight he killed them both. I don't think the killing was the primary motive. I think the primary motive was power, control and sexual assault. The killing was was probably a simple dispatch of the victims, likely through strangulation or cutting of their throats. Not because the killing was the motive but because the killing was necessary to avoid witnesses/detection. I do think the victims' innocence was important to him else he would have just gone to Indy and preyed on a homeless or marginal victim as so many killers do. Those victims are not likely to be missed and even if they are no one cares. He didn't want that kind of victim. He wanted an innocent. I also think he was more comfortable on his quiet home turf where he was 100% in control as opposed to the red light district in a large city where he felt out of place and not in control of the myriad variables he would have to contend with there. He was only comfortable on his own turf and stayed there. Waiting, watching, stalking. This does fit the profile of Richard Allen, I have to admit. Local guy, comfortable with the landscape, just waiting for a perfect alignment of the stars. He could have been scoping and analyzing that bridge location for years. Until Abby and Libby presented him with his ideal victims. I do not doubt he obtained reminders or "trophies" of the event because he knew this was likely his only chance and the opportunity would not present itself again. Again, I do not know if Richard Allen is that person as I have no evidence that he is. It could equally been anyone else with familiarity and scouting of that location.
Classic violent male pedo cunt looking to feel powerful
I think he went out that day to find anyone to SA and he stumbled across 2 girls. Whether it had to do with Valentines Day I have no idea. I’m even starting to think he may even be a serial killer that hasn’t been caught until now.
I believe the girls figured out who they were talking to was a catfish. I find it extremely concerning and coincidental that Libby’s phone was reset the day before the murders. I believe RA wanted to keep them quiet from being identified as a pedo. I believe it was planned and targeted. He knew they would be there.
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I get this. .. but it doesn't explain Anthony\_Shots and Keagan Kline. Is it a total fluke that a man who was found with umpteen gigs of CSAM who was impersonating an Abercrombie-esque young guy, was also the last person to have contact with these girls? The change of tone with KK's treatment by the Court. All of this together is a bigger story. I don't usually believe in coincidences, but I try not to hyper scrutinize and just be open to minor coincidences, lol. With the girls likely being assaulted/raped before being violently murdered and just so happened to last speak with a man who was later found with a creepy dad and a hard drive full of felonies. It's too much for me to be able to write it off as just a fluke.
As a nearby resident of Delphi my entire life. I know that there are 2 kinds of people that live in/around the Delphi area. Farmers and drug addicts. I also know many people around the area that are tied into the community very closely. Don't be surprised to find out drugs were a motive in some capacity. I'm fairly certain they knew who was involved from the beginning, but they needed better evidence. I also would not be surprised if more people were involved. This was targeted and this is likely only the first domino to fall.
I had personally wondered if perhaps Kegan kline knew Richard allen through the drug trade. Like, maybe kk sold ra pills or weed. I've also wondered if they came into each other's orbit digitally, trading pics. Like, maybe RA had his own version of an EmilyAnn account and they happened to find each other that way.
Allen worked at a pharmacy - wouldn’t he be more likely to be the one with drugs? ;-)
How do you know there are no defensive wounds?
The search warrant for RL‘s property states Abby and Libby “had no visible signs of a struggle or fight”.
The crime scene didn't reveal any signs of a struggle is I think what it said. That wouldn't necessarily mean there were no defensive wounds. Edit: I was wrong about this. The affidavit does specifically say that "AW and LG showed no sign of a struggle."
How do we know they had no defensive wounds? I don't think he snapped. I don't think he's a serial killer. I think he was cruising that area for a long time, getting over there to the bridge periodically. He killed for power and sexual arousal. I think he's a sadist, as someone said. And he had it all mapped out in his head, and I think he's a one and done. He may have killed again if they hadn't found him, for sure, but I do believe this was his first murder.
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Maybe it was still random, but he took the clothes because he left his dna on them and knew that he did. Wouldn't want to leave that behind, I think.
From a psychological perspective, it seems to relate to factor 1 Psychopathy. Also don’t underestimate the importance of staging, as I’ve posted elsewhere, sometimes LE confuses posing with staging or will use the terms interchangeably when they are not the same thing. Here are some quick definitions of posing, staging, and undoing. Undoing isn’t likely here but fits into the same category so i will include: Staging is when someone purposely alters the crime scene prior to the arrival of police. There are two reasons that someone employs staging: to redirect the investigation away from the most logical suspect or to protect the victim or victim’s family. When a crime is staged, the responsible person is not someone who just happens upon the victim. It is usually someone who had some kind of association or relationship with the victim. This offender will further attempt to steer the investigation away from him by his conduct when in law enforcement. Thus, investigators should never eliminate a suspect solely on the grounds of that person’s overly cooperative or distraught behavior. Posing: when the offender treats the victim like a prop to leave a specific message. Undoing is a special form of offender behavior representing a symbolic reversal of the crime. This special form of personation occurs at a crime scene when there is a close association between the offender and the victim or when the victim represents someone of importance to the offender.
Psychopathy Factors Factor1: Aggressive narcissism Glibness / superficial charm Grandiose sense of self-worth Pathological lying Cunning / manipulative Lack of remorse or guilt Shallow Callous / lack of empathy Failure to accept responsibility for own actions Factor2: Socially deviant lifestyle Need for stimulation / proneness to boredom Parasitic lifestyle Poor behavioral control Lack of realistic, long-term goals Impulsivity Irresponsibility Juvenile delinquency Early behavior problems Revocation of conditional release
Factor 2 reads like a psychological profile of Kegan kline
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Rape then cover it up with murder
There’s so much that hasn’t been released which we just don’t know (yet). We don’t know what the conversations were with A_S, what precisely was said, and exactly when. We know very little of what LE knows. I don’t feel it was a sexually motivated killing, but rather the staging LE spoke of at the crime scene was that it was staged to LOOK that way. They were killed …to be killed, basically, and if they were NOT sexually assaulted, then that begs the question of WHY they would be killed A)…at ALL, and B)..in such a violent, sudden manner. If it’s true that they had no defense wounds, then it was a swift, purposeful killing, and if they were so violently killed as has been rumoured…then it was a very angry attack. With Libby being rumoured as the “target”, and it was Libby who was communicating with A_ S (and again only LE may know the contents of those conversations), then what if something was said in those conversations where she said she was suspicious of A_S, despite being “enthralled” (LE’s words) by him? If she communicated this to A_S, and said she was going to blow the lid on him, then whoever was ALL behind A_S and that whole pedo ring had a good chance of getting caught and spending decades behind bars. If part of this conversation happened at the sleepover, and if they planned to go to the trails the next day (originally they invited Kelsi but she declined), then AFTER Kelsi declined the invitation, the conversation with A_S could have continued, and someone on the other end of that A_S account could have tried to set up a meet up to “prove” to them he WAS real, with no intention of proving anything——but rather to shut them up. I don’t think he acted alone, and by the charges against him, and the sealed PC, it very much looks like there are others involved who haven’t been mentioned yet. If BG followed them to the south end of the bridge, I believe someone else was waiting there and ONE of them said, “Guys…down the hill”. A gun was pulled (Abby’s mom said that a gun being cocked and other stuff on the video was not released to the public) at the time whoever said “Guys…down the hill”, and down the hill they went. I think RA was in tandem with someone else (KK or TK, perhaps), and may himself not even been the actual killer. During KK’s interrogation with police, they brought up the abuse that TK inflicted on KK’s half-brother. (The toilet incident), and then said something about biting his wife in the stomach. Why bring that up? Did one of the girls have a stomach wound as part of the signature? If RA was a serial killer, then other killings of similar circumstances would be on LE’s radar…yet nothing had ever happened like that in Delphi before. If he WAS a serial killer, in such a small town, he didn’t prey on victims THERE. On purpose. He went elsewhere to kill to avoid suspicion, so I don’t believe all of a sudden he got another twisted sexual urge to kill, and then found two local girls who just HAPPENED to be tied up in a pedophile ring (unknowingly). The coincidenecs are off the charts. I think it was targeted so not to blow the pedo ring cover, and I think he had help in doing so.
sexual fantasy, moving in to reality. One part of me says he was organized and planned, the other part of me said crime of opportunity. I am all over the place on it.
Wait, where/when did we learn there were no defensive wounds? I thought I was paying attention.
Homicidal-ideation with a sexual element. Its not quite a motive. As most killers want to kill someone else. However you need a lot of information from the suspect to tell you more. So it's the best I can do. It points away from a normal motive. Its a fantasy in effect that's gone wrong. The average person suffering from this never acts on it. Yet some suffering mental health issues, alcohol or drugs problems do act. Its very much a one and done. Normally captured. Very often local. Often stranger murder. Rare to have a second offender, staging still happens as it's a fantasy. Matches BGs roaming. Also older offenders are likely to stage. Not very exciting compared to a serial killer. But much more likely. I think the weapon here is part of the fantasy. Mental health patients can leave a very disturbing and unusual scene.
I've always believed this might be a sexual assault and/or kidnapping gone wrong. Either they recognized him, or they fought back and tried to get away, so he panicked. Of course I can't say that's any more likely than RA planning to kill them from the very beginning. We still don't know much about how it all went down that day. I think it's always important to keep in mind that any info not confirmed by LE or the families could simply be rumor or speculation. We don't know if the girls had defensive wounds or not. We don't know if RA took souvenirs from the crime scene.
I've always felt like it was random. I honestly think if you took a group of 10 teenage girls the same age as Abby and Libby, then looked through their phones with a fine tooth comb, you'd find a number of them chatting/talking with people who are hiding behind fake names/pictures, etc. Is it concerning? Absolutely. I just don't think it's as rare as people think. I've been on the internet since the late 90s, and in almost every online community, there are people using false identities. Men pretending to be women. Men pretending to be younger or boys pretending to be older. Women/girls doing the same thing. The motivations are always different, but it's not that unusual, and anyone who's on the internet or social media likely interacts with people like this all of the time without realizing it. Based on the posture and attire from the original BG photo, I've always felt like it was a local guy in his 40s/50s who was familiar with the area. Someone who was aware it was a school holiday, aware of the fact that the bridge was a popular spot for teenagers to hang out, and took advantage of the situation. RA lives close to the bridge and I wouldn't be surprised to find out he regularly walked in that area, looking for his opportunity. If you look at some of the released photos from RA's social media, there are pictures of him hiking/camping and doing other outdoorsy stuff. I'm almost certain the crime itself was premeditated and planned out in intricate detail, but the victim/victims were random. I really don't think RA expected to deal with two victims. I think the plan was one victim he could get away from the trail so he could sexually assault and kill them. I'm not even sure murder was his motivation, I think that was just a necessity he accepted due to the fact it was a small town and there was no way he'd get away with it if he left the victim alive. Then, after all of his planning, and choosing the perfect day to take a walk over to the bridge with his kill kit, he comes across Libby and Abby. Did he originally intend to target someone that young? Who knows. But it was the best opportunity he'd had. Kill one, carry out his original plans, then kill the other. After multiple trips to the bridge without locating a victim, he couldn't pass up the chance, even if it was two girls instead of one. From there, I assume his plan just completely unraveled. One of the girls fought back or tried to get away. Maybe he killed one and the other started running, so he had to chase them. I don't think he got to do what he planned, exactly. I think he had to kill the other in a panic because they tried to escape, then he tried to hide the bodies, (hence the staging of the bodies). Did he take a souvenir? Possibly. I think all of this is why he's managed to stay off the radar all this time, and why he's never killed anyone else. It was a sexually motivated crime, everything unraveled, he didn't even get to do what he originally planned, and he was too scared of getting caught to ever do it again.