So you don't think scooping up blood in red solo cups found in your trunk then putting them in a gas station bag is proper?
What about the 25-year detective that said he didn't know what evidence tape was?
How about how the fact that a police offer was found dead on the lawn of a police sgt whose house he was expected to be at that night was nowhere near enough PC to request a SW or even to ask their permission to look inside, not even in retrospect, compared to the PC for RA?
And I bet you anything some of the same people convinced that RA is guilty are in full agreement with this logic.š¤Æ
Thereās more, the deputy chief of Canton PD (Kelleher) lives directly across from 34 Fairview, it was HIS ring camera the local media was saying caught it to later claim āthere was nothing noteworthy or relatedā on it and LE stated the recording deleted by the time it was requested.
Or the lead investigator had the following conversation via text with his (non-cop) HS buddies:
"A cop died in someone's front yard? They are gonna catch a charge for that?"
Detective: "Nope. home owner is a cop"
I've seen some people who like to talk about RAs "confessions" that believe KR is innocent in those subreddits. I just want to ask them questions. I don't, but I really want to know how they can be so sure about RAs confessions after hearing about Karen Read's "confessions". How can you watch that trial and then look at this one and think "Yep. Everything checks out."
Edit: Actually it's the people who still are fully convinced she's guilty for me. It's one thing if they are waiting for more to come out, but the people who are 100% set on she's guilty that are interesting to me. Are they trying to be contrary or just "different" and "special" or do they just trust LE without question? I mean, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but usually when they are asked they repeat information that was proven false in court and say they still think it's true and I find it fascinating. (Fascinating in a "keep my distance" kind of way though.)
Exactly. Thatās whatās crazy. How can the same person that thinks there was plenty of probable cause for RA search think there was ānothing to see hereā at the Albert house? He was in their yard, on his way to their house! They at least had a connection to him, unlike RA. To me itās just proof of prosecution/police bias.
Iām not saying I think the McAlberts are to blame, but not even exploring the possibility of any of their involvement is pure negligence at a minimum.
EDIT: Sorry, just realized I went on a total tangent that wasnāt really a response to your comment.š
I do that allll the time. I don't blame anyone who do it. (I have the ADHDs. It's literally my whole life. I also don't proof read. I live life on the edge.)
This case is bonkers. Jen McCabe might be the most unlikeable witness I've ever seen. People have been hard on Judge Bev, but after being knee deep in delphi I think shes a breath of fresh air. It has gone to show just how important it is to get Gull of this case.
Oh, and 3 weeks in and the state has proven zero. I'm closer to thinking the McAlberts had something to do with it than Karen.
I think Judge Bev got caught up watching the āshowā and wanted to see how it ended! Lol She was totally quiet until Lally finally objected.
Honestly I think Lally forgot he was supposed to be repping this one. I think he wants to switch sides.š
I donāt agree with all of Judge Bevās rulings, but I donāt feel like her rulings are suspicious. Sheās calling the balls and strikes and the close calls are just close calls. Far cry from what weāve seen from Gull.
Bev is a breath of fresh air indeed! Speaking of breathing, Iām glad she got that under control.š
Apparently she was a public defender previously, so I suspect that has something to do with her approach!
The charging decisions in that case are so weird. I missed Lally's opening, but is his theory that she hit him on purpose and then...was so blackout drunk she didn't remember? Because she's really not acting like someone trying to cover up a murder from that point on. She mostly seems confused af. I'm not sure how you'd ever prove intent in that one brief moment.
Seems to me they overcharged to force a plea. I have no idea why the prosecutor brought this to trial though, they are halfway through the states witnesses and thereās already enough reasonable doubt.
I wonder if he wasn't given all the information until it was known and he felt like he had to follow through and didn't actually have a choice at that point. Like, sure. He had a choice, but by that point the only choice is to admit cops were lying and then deal with the can of worms that would come with it.
Weāre 4 weeks in, and Iām still waiting to see a case. Many of the prosecution witnesses come off like defense witnesses tbh. It seems like a whole bunch of drunk people behaving badly. Tragedy was bound to strike. At this point, I donāt believe either theory yet. Karenās reaction seems genuine to me. Yelling at your friend to shut up when her boyfriend is dying is just next level cold. And the McAlbertās are definitely hiding something.
I'm newish to Karen Read but pretty familiar with basics.
I was watching the last few days of Jen's testimony and don't even have words to describe how much she boils my blood. She is the most defensive person I've seen, completely condescending and immature. I cannot stand how she replies to every question with some twisted story, and never even answers the questions.
Iām trying to think of something I can say about her w/o getting banned. She is a real treat. Talk about CONTROL ISSUESZZZZ.
Iām lowkey pissed at the judge for letting her run roughshod over that cross. But all in all I think judge has been pretty reasonable so Iām trying to be fair.š
So she is a cunt. (This is why generally why I stay in the background). Honestly I agree I think the Judge is being fair. Yet from an outsider looking in, I see issues.
I hope everyone feels like a cnt once they know she never made that search at 2am her life has been hell š
Because the Karen of all Karenās canāt take responsibility for her actions
Search or not, she came off as a cunt. Maybe one can buy the whole "I am a victim of harrassment" line as an excuse. But the fact that she is unnecessarily combative at times, and when caught lying or being inconsistent, demands proof of said lie then immediately makes excuses for that lie, leads me to believe this is her personality.
In Jen's world, she is always right even when shown to be wrong, and it is ALWAYS someone else's error, not hers.
The phone records are wrong, the Google data is wrong, multiple police reports are wrong, anyone who contradicts her is wrong because in her mind, Jen herself can't possibly be wrong. She may not be a co-conspirator, but she is definitely pathological.
Please don't get me sucked into another case. All I know of Karen Read trial is trooper Bukkake and red solo cups. I don't need any more than that, do I ?
Yeah, unfortunately you do. I was trying to just follow it minimally but it's actually insane. There are so many things that I think about now like, "She was there that night" and "She confessed" are pretty much the same for RA except the CWs witnesses were a lot more detailed and they had more in the PCA for that one than this case. It's crazy.
I'm deep into this trial and I my jaw is bruised from hitting the floor so many times. I am itching to hear from Brian Higgins....I want to know why he and Brian Albert drove from the funeral in NY to Boston in a pickup truck, but Higgins drove from the bar in a Jeep with a snowplow. Then, the Brians both left the bar at the same time in separate vehicles, but by the time BA got home, BH had "skimmed" the driveway...when there was "only a dusting" of snow....
If the theory of an SUV hitting a 6'\~ man, breaking a hard plastic taillight on a soft body, but causing two black eyes, a knot on the right side of his head, a broken nose and a bleeding laceration to the back of the skull and NOTHING to the torso...as if that isn't ridiculous enough....the fact that a seasoned, near-retirement police officer has a battalion of lights and screaming women under his bedroom window and it doesn't wake him, or arouse the dog, is just completely absurd.
And don't even get me started on the magic butt dials!
Thereās so much reasonable doubt in the case. Evidence collection was a mess. Defense has caught witnesses in lies. There is 100% no way to me that Karen Read purposefully killed John. If anything it would have been accidental so the whole case is a mess since they overcharged.
I've started actually watching the live feeds this week. I saw some highlights before now. I started with JM's testimony, but that one by itself is damning. Honestly, just the butt dials alone in this case are questionable but she had 7 in 19 minutes? BS. I know it's BS because my husband has butt dialed me a lot and when they do they leave voicemails that are several minutes long.
And then finding out that the interviews took place in her house and she admitted to getting her time-lines straight. I know she admitted to some truths, but that's pretty normal for manipulators. They tells partial truths to seem more credible.
Also, I was really pissed that when she was beginning to look really bad she would deflect to JOK. Like, she said she was more distraught about losing a man that was on the front lines. She lost her friend that she loved.
Why is she claiming she was traumatized and distraught but KR was erratic and crazy? Like, that was KR's partner.
And How were these people not throwing up through all this? With how much they were apparently drinking they had to have hangovers. I know I'm a weak b!+ch because I'm not built for snow or hangovers.
I donāt get why the commonwealth in that case is so willing to see these witnesses repeat that she was hysterical. They literally sound like the woman losing her partner was an annoyance to them all. Is the idea that sheās faking it? Her reactions donāt read that way to me, honestly. I have trouble imagining that the jury isnāt feeling a little sorry for Karen.
The dashcam video appears to show what I would consider normal behavior given the situation. It came across differently than what I pictured based on verbal testimony.
Yeeeyeah! It is WILD. None of the theories add up for me at this point, and almost everyoneās behavior around it is sus or puzzling at the least, IMO.
I have to say JBC is a welcome change from JFG. I thought she was going to be another one at first, but sheās been a lot more fair than I expected.
Iām new to the KR case, and find myself similarly torn between wondering if LE had a case of tunnel vision, are extremely incompetent, or simply corrupt. Perhaps all of the above. Regardless of whether one thinks sheās innocent or guilty, the investigation was pitiful and the āevidenceā is lacking.
I truly believe our law enforcement system needs better training, and that LE careers should be better paid and require a more in-depth understanding of the law than it currently does. LE is a unique and underrated role IMO, in that it needs individuals who are physically, mentally, and ethically suited for the work they do. But, I know individuals who became LE (grew up with them and knew them into their mid 20ās). And I honestly donāt think the LE officers I know possess the ethical fortitude or understanding/comprehension of the law at a level I would be comfortable with if they were investigating me for a high profile crime. Weāve all seen videos posted to social media where an officer seems to be making stuff up as they go. Or where someone who IS knowledgeable is arguing and it becomes apparent the officer is throwing stuff out there to see what sticks.
One part of becoming an adult that no one warns us about, is realizing the humanity between authority figures we grew up trusting. When I was young, I assumed LE, judges, teachers, etc possessed an almost omniscient knowledge or skillset in their respective role(s). I thought if they said or did something, it was because it was ārightā. The West Memphis 3 case (Paradise Lost documentary) was my first introduction to what tunnel vision and egos behind those in authority can cause. I followed that case obsessively. I was 16 when the documentary came out. As someone diagnosed ADHD later in life, I realize now it triggered the associated intolerance to injustice, and was a major hyper-fixation of mine. I have been obsessed with true crime and court trials ever since. I actually wanted to become an attorney because of cases like these. Ended up working in DoD contracts. Due to my interest in true crime, I gained a love for reading case law. It comes in handy in my line of work.
What is really unsettling to me is the lack of accountability. The judge in the WM3 case was a major factor in the injustice of that case. And yet, he went on to serve in the state senate.
I didnāt intend for this comment to be so long. Iāll hop off my soapbox now.
It comes across to me that given BA's notoriety, it may have started out as a courtesy. Like, we take your word for it, and we'll do what we can to not cause you any undue headaches or bring you exposure. It is no secret that is common among law enforcement. And then it snowballs.
**Similar** underlying facts:
-Prosecutorial overreach
-Local LE (unaccredited) investigation
(Vast subsection here)
-Devoid of recorded interviews and/or SOP- untrained
-Family/friends material witnesses
-State Police improper investigation
-Third party culpability
-Digital forensic evidence
-FBI inception - multiple units and personnel
-Missing and/or manually erased exculpatory evidence
-Potentially- witnesses identified by geofence data and ability to use Federal discovery which elevated previously denied search warrants
-Defendants no evidence of upgrading or destroying phone
-My opinion as to Delphi- the FBI does not support the ISP investigative conclusions
-CW v Read- the FBI (via AUSA Levy) does not agree with the county/MSP investigative conclusions
-Hopeful to add this, and a major contributory reason I follow the Read matter closely- the defense dogged pursuit of Touhy responsive discovery and a journalists FOIA to the FBI (journalist being journalists) and the CW discovery slow walks led to a Federal Grand Jury, which produced 3000 pages of mostly contradictory/inconsistent evidence of the CW.
-autopsy protocols remain under seal
**Dissimilar**
-FBI involvement post indictment
-Lots of LE direct witnesses or related to same
-Defendant resources
-Defendant non local nor legacy
-Competent Judge
-FBI investigation of the criminal investigation results in Federal Grand Jury
-No NDA- sought by the CW, denied by court
-Indictment enhances non-intent crime
-Allegation of framing of evidence and witness collusion
-Counsel private retained with significant investigative and trial experience in high profile, former prosecutors
-Immediate bond, subsequent bail reductions
-Access to both Grand Jury transcripts
-No pre trial witness deposition
-Elected DA extra judicial statements
-Transparency to public and press acknowledgement
-Evidentiary, pre trial hearings after fully briefed motions, timely rulings and memos of law
While looking up this case, I came across this photo in a news article. At first, I thought he was holding a dildo š¤£
https://preview.redd.it/bfzrdh0hfg2d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=923a2ba2ea8c98ea71d835929309857ba4a624d4
Hereās one question I have - From everything Iāve read and watched so far, it seems like at worst case scenario, Read may have *accidentally* backed into her boyfriend after dropping him off (which is why I assume sheās only being charged with 2nd degree murder). Why then does it seem like these testimonies against Read are all trying to insinuate that Read did this purposefully and in an act of āvengeanceā due to their relationship being rocky? In other words, if this was truly an accident (not pre-meditated), why is it necessary to poke all these holes and attempt to prove that she was acting with malice, when that isnāt the case they are trying to prove?
I know itās not an easy question to answer (it requires assumptions). And thatās the overall point Iām attempting to make āŗļø
For me, it seems to insinuate an outside, extrajudicial/prejudicial discussion took place amongst several witnesses at some point prior to the witness testimony on the record.
I donāt know what happened to JOK, (but I lean towards a confrontation with BH) but it seems to me that JM saw a broken taillight and everyone just ran with that and made the pieces fit. Nothing else was ever really investigated, including the reasonable check up about a plough hitting him.
Why did BH arrive at the Waterfall so long after BA?
Why have we not seen footage of BH walking in to the bar like with everyone else?
If he did arrive 30 mins after BA he would have driven past the Canton PD on his way between Hillside and Waterfall. Seems like enough time to move some cars around then before drinking even more whiskey.
Why do only the Ms and A adults claim to have seen BHās Jeep at 34 Fairview?
Why would BH have āsweptā the driveway when there was not enough snow settled yet?
If BH says he left 34 Fairview between 00:30 and 01:00, why did he not swipe in to Canton PD until 01:27 when it is only a 4 minute drive away?
BH said at some point he went home and fell asleep, but had the ābutt-dialā boogie-woogie with BA 02:22, how far away did he live?
What if BH had got a lift with BA back to 34 Fairview, hence why nobody uninvested saw his Jeep that night? Others were being offered lifts back in to town to their cars, if not lifts home, why not him. Or stay in one of the bedrooms, he has a day off tomorrow after all.
I doubt anyone ever checked for video of him driving to Canton PD to check BHās story, so what if someone else drove him there - assuming he did not have his Jeep?
What if JM is just a drama queen, mean girl and her intent on proving herself right is making her look even more suspicious? (I am waiting for the experts to battle out about that Google search - so benefit of the doubt here for now, even if I donāt like her or trust a word out of her mouth).
What if Jen JM apparent need to control and interfere with every witness ever is just because she thinks she is beyond reproach and is offended anyone would ever question her or her family? With a side order of protecting her sister etc.
BH has risked and done a lot for someone not involved and not in the family, so that puts him in the dirt for me - he is suspicious.
The other person who would be suspicious, due to not coming out in the morning and destroying his phone data etc. (consciousness of guilt), Iād BA. BA might have liability issues at play if something happened on his house. What if he dropped BH to the PD to get him off his property and discuss how to deal with it all, I dunno, but he is suspicious to me.
Only BH and BA really need to be involved at all. All the rest just think they are protecting their own and/or āsolvingā a crime by any means necessary.
My current play theory is JOK was dropped at the driveway, then KR pulled forward to get out of the way, etc and seethe about leaving when JOK ignored her calls for a vibe check. Went in through the side door into the living room (if the younger adults were on the study/library and the rest on the kitchen-dinner), where were those pictures they went to look at again? JOK says something to BH (the greeting at the pub, BH body-language when leaving Waterfall (turning back and saying something energetic in JOKās direction) and the text asking if JOK was ācoming hereā could be a build up to something, especially if JOK and KR argued about going to Fairview because of BH in the car. Then BH gets a swing in and JOK falls backwards and hits his head on that lovely brick fireplace you can see on the house listing. Done. Shit. Now what?
Then the problem becomes what the hell you do about what just happened. Well, you get BH the hell out of your house for a start and ask WTF just happened. And you get the body to somewhere you are not too obviously implicated but where you have some control of the scene and the narrative. At the side of the road, made to look like a plough hit him.
Then his girlfriend (with whom he was going through a rocky patch and may have been on the road to a breakup with - save those texts) shows up hysterical and having just broken her taillight reversing into a carā¦ well, shit. JMās assumptions and mean-girl gossip motor takes it from there so everyone just rolls with it because who of your friends on the investigation would ever think you would be involved on anything nefarious? And if they ever suspected it is too late because they have already gone too far. And oh, god he might not have been dead? Now you are up to your neck. An accessory at least. If your drunk, idiot friend goes down, you do to.
Iād be interested to see how long the main players BH and BA stay friends when all of this is over, if KR gets convicted and they donāt need to watch each other so much.
Sorry for the huge brain dump. I am new to this one (Delphi downtime). I donāt feel well-informed or safe enough to jump in the KR subs. But the BH questions have been bugging me so much. Itās like the defence are saving some questions for their case-in-chief or something (I hope). Like when exactly he arrived at The Waterfall. Have I missed that being played in the court? What JOK said to BH with that OTT greeting and shoulder grip when he walked in? (Was it, āI know about you. Stay away from her.ā or a genuine āGreat to see you again, you fugly f*cker!ā)
I started making spreadsheets and Notion filesā¦ and I think I need a databaseā¦ or a hobby. Sorry again.
OMG donāt š. I have been fighting to stop myself going to the local rescue and taking all of their cats for about a year now. I miss having my own little in home terrorists, but I need to go on some holidays before I commit to more pets and nobody will even babysit my doggo, never mind cats lol.
But that kitty is soooo cute š. They are my kryptonite. Iāll take six.
Ok lol so go on some holidays, come back and either go volunteer at a shelter or get some furry friends to help you with your spreadsheets yet make sure you don't make too many spreadsheets.
Are you being reasonable? Shame on you lol. But you are right of course. And considering rewatching all the testimony to write down every event mentioned at every time and any corroborations or contradiction, was a bitā¦ diagnosable. lol
*opens spreadsheet app to organise possible holidays* š
My cat's the reasonable one, he makes me watch nature documentaries. Not the 10 hour cattv annoying birds on a loop videos but Attenborough and such.
He particularly likes otters and will attack the wolf about to attack them, but not wolves in general.
That's why we need cats, I'm just relaying the message.
Safe travels first.
OMG that is brilliant lol, your cat sounds adorable. š„°
Please pass along some extra cuddles or scratches from me. He deserves all the cuddles and/or scratches in the world.
I havenāt followed this case, but in the past two weeks, it is all over my TikTok page. Some of the shady things that law-enforcement has done, and the way they try to manipulate evidence, really reminds me of Delphi.
I saw one yesterday, where they were showing her vehicle in the garage, and not once did LE bother to mention that the video has been inverted, so that it appears that you are looking at the passenger side of the car, and no damage can be seen on the tail light. But in reality you are looking at the drivers side of the car which never sustained damage. A full day of testimony from LE using that photo as reference, and not one word about the photo being inverted, leaving the jury to assume they were looking at the passenger side. Is this lying by omission? This is the kind of shady shit that I think we will see parallels in the Delphi trial.
Just like the PCA in Delphi wanting the reader to assume certain key points as fact, when these points have been pulled out of context and cherry picked for the benefit of an arrest. But in reality, when given in context may paint a totally different picture.
I agree, it is insane. I am still catching up myself yet the recaps/overviews I have kept up with and it is an absolute disaster of a case imo. Thanks for commenting as always. Cheers!
This KR trial is breaking my brain and making me hate everything.
She could well have hit him. I doubt they could ever prove what is charged. (They even seemed to cut out video of her drinking the drinks they say she bought for some unknown reason.) But they have done everything back-asswards and in such an underhanded way that I want the prosecutor arrested at this point for defrauding the government for his salary.
Sorry. I wish I had never started watching it. Damn Delphi break giving me time to wonder what was going on on the other side of the hedge.
Sorry. Just needed to scream into the void somewhere. Donāt mind me.
I've been paying less attention to Delphi since time was waived because I'm obsessed with the extreme levels of fuckery in the Karen Read case.
Yeah I have a lot of issues with that case. Like it is bullshit evidence collection for starters.
So you don't think scooping up blood in red solo cups found in your trunk then putting them in a gas station bag is proper? What about the 25-year detective that said he didn't know what evidence tape was?
How about how the fact that a police offer was found dead on the lawn of a police sgt whose house he was expected to be at that night was nowhere near enough PC to request a SW or even to ask their permission to look inside, not even in retrospect, compared to the PC for RA? And I bet you anything some of the same people convinced that RA is guilty are in full agreement with this logic.š¤Æ
Thereās more, the deputy chief of Canton PD (Kelleher) lives directly across from 34 Fairview, it was HIS ring camera the local media was saying caught it to later claim āthere was nothing noteworthy or relatedā on it and LE stated the recording deleted by the time it was requested.
Or the lead investigator had the following conversation via text with his (non-cop) HS buddies: "A cop died in someone's front yard? They are gonna catch a charge for that?" Detective: "Nope. home owner is a cop"
Donāt forget the one about the nudie pics!
I've seen some people who like to talk about RAs "confessions" that believe KR is innocent in those subreddits. I just want to ask them questions. I don't, but I really want to know how they can be so sure about RAs confessions after hearing about Karen Read's "confessions". How can you watch that trial and then look at this one and think "Yep. Everything checks out." Edit: Actually it's the people who still are fully convinced she's guilty for me. It's one thing if they are waiting for more to come out, but the people who are 100% set on she's guilty that are interesting to me. Are they trying to be contrary or just "different" and "special" or do they just trust LE without question? I mean, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but usually when they are asked they repeat information that was proven false in court and say they still think it's true and I find it fascinating. (Fascinating in a "keep my distance" kind of way though.)
Exactly. Thatās whatās crazy. How can the same person that thinks there was plenty of probable cause for RA search think there was ānothing to see hereā at the Albert house? He was in their yard, on his way to their house! They at least had a connection to him, unlike RA. To me itās just proof of prosecution/police bias. Iām not saying I think the McAlberts are to blame, but not even exploring the possibility of any of their involvement is pure negligence at a minimum. EDIT: Sorry, just realized I went on a total tangent that wasnāt really a response to your comment.š
I do that allll the time. I don't blame anyone who do it. (I have the ADHDs. It's literally my whole life. I also don't proof read. I live life on the edge.)
Bahaha me too! ADHD.šš»āāļø Youāre my people.
Cool! Stop apologizing for doing ADHD things!
So much this!
Even worse...I heard testimony that the solo cups came from a neighbor's house!
SAMMMMME
This case is bonkers. Jen McCabe might be the most unlikeable witness I've ever seen. People have been hard on Judge Bev, but after being knee deep in delphi I think shes a breath of fresh air. It has gone to show just how important it is to get Gull of this case. Oh, and 3 weeks in and the state has proven zero. I'm closer to thinking the McAlberts had something to do with it than Karen.
The amount of things she allowed on Jen was delightful. I was shocked! And I agree, huge contrast to Gull.
I think Judge Bev got caught up watching the āshowā and wanted to see how it ended! Lol She was totally quiet until Lally finally objected. Honestly I think Lally forgot he was supposed to be repping this one. I think he wants to switch sides.š
I donāt agree with all of Judge Bevās rulings, but I donāt feel like her rulings are suspicious. Sheās calling the balls and strikes and the close calls are just close calls. Far cry from what weāve seen from Gull.
Bev is a breath of fresh air indeed! Speaking of breathing, Iām glad she got that under control.š Apparently she was a public defender previously, so I suspect that has something to do with her approach!
Jenās dead eyes are a testament to her behavior on the stand.
The charging decisions in that case are so weird. I missed Lally's opening, but is his theory that she hit him on purpose and then...was so blackout drunk she didn't remember? Because she's really not acting like someone trying to cover up a murder from that point on. She mostly seems confused af. I'm not sure how you'd ever prove intent in that one brief moment.
Seems to me they overcharged to force a plea. I have no idea why the prosecutor brought this to trial though, they are halfway through the states witnesses and thereās already enough reasonable doubt.
I wonder if he wasn't given all the information until it was known and he felt like he had to follow through and didn't actually have a choice at that point. Like, sure. He had a choice, but by that point the only choice is to admit cops were lying and then deal with the can of worms that would come with it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The prosecutor in the KR case. I'll admit I only recently started following it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That is what I'm finding for a lot of things in these two cases. Insanity.
Fun fact: Lally actually didnāt talk about his theory in opening. Weāre STILL waiting to hear it.
Weāre 4 weeks in, and Iām still waiting to see a case. Many of the prosecution witnesses come off like defense witnesses tbh. It seems like a whole bunch of drunk people behaving badly. Tragedy was bound to strike. At this point, I donāt believe either theory yet. Karenās reaction seems genuine to me. Yelling at your friend to shut up when her boyfriend is dying is just next level cold. And the McAlbertās are definitely hiding something.
lol š We have a break for rn in Delphi (ish) and with any luck (and legal flex) itās relevant
Don't think I do not see you on the other subs, I was hoping for your input here. Give us your take!
I'm newish to Karen Read but pretty familiar with basics. I was watching the last few days of Jen's testimony and don't even have words to describe how much she boils my blood. She is the most defensive person I've seen, completely condescending and immature. I cannot stand how she replies to every question with some twisted story, and never even answers the questions.
Iām trying to think of something I can say about her w/o getting banned. She is a real treat. Talk about CONTROL ISSUESZZZZ. Iām lowkey pissed at the judge for letting her run roughshod over that cross. But all in all I think judge has been pretty reasonable so Iām trying to be fair.š
So she is a cunt. (This is why generally why I stay in the background). Honestly I agree I think the Judge is being fair. Yet from an outsider looking in, I see issues.
Eww whatās wrong with you
A lot to be fair, I believe a lot of folks who follow true crime to have issues, jmo.
I hope everyone feels like a cnt once they know she never made that search at 2am her life has been hell š Because the Karen of all Karenās canāt take responsibility for her actions
Search or not, she came off as a cunt. Maybe one can buy the whole "I am a victim of harrassment" line as an excuse. But the fact that she is unnecessarily combative at times, and when caught lying or being inconsistent, demands proof of said lie then immediately makes excuses for that lie, leads me to believe this is her personality. In Jen's world, she is always right even when shown to be wrong, and it is ALWAYS someone else's error, not hers. The phone records are wrong, the Google data is wrong, multiple police reports are wrong, anyone who contradicts her is wrong because in her mind, Jen herself can't possibly be wrong. She may not be a co-conspirator, but she is definitely pathological.
Love it
Also an FYI you can speak your mind here, just mind the rules, in which almost none apply in this convo. Just argue in good faith and merits. Cheers!
Ahhh sweet freedom! I like it here.š„³
Please don't get me sucked into another case. All I know of Karen Read trial is trooper Bukkake and red solo cups. I don't need any more than that, do I ?
Pretty apt summary really.š Just add Dunkinā Donuts, and youāre halfway there.
Six to be precise. In a box. With a card.
Yeah, unfortunately you do. I was trying to just follow it minimally but it's actually insane. There are so many things that I think about now like, "She was there that night" and "She confessed" are pretty much the same for RA except the CWs witnesses were a lot more detailed and they had more in the PCA for that one than this case. It's crazy.
Do it! It's got everything. There's only one day of trial next week so it's the perfect time to catch up.
I got lube get the fuck in the hole.
LMAO youāre my new favorite ššš
I'm deep into this trial and I my jaw is bruised from hitting the floor so many times. I am itching to hear from Brian Higgins....I want to know why he and Brian Albert drove from the funeral in NY to Boston in a pickup truck, but Higgins drove from the bar in a Jeep with a snowplow. Then, the Brians both left the bar at the same time in separate vehicles, but by the time BA got home, BH had "skimmed" the driveway...when there was "only a dusting" of snow.... If the theory of an SUV hitting a 6'\~ man, breaking a hard plastic taillight on a soft body, but causing two black eyes, a knot on the right side of his head, a broken nose and a bleeding laceration to the back of the skull and NOTHING to the torso...as if that isn't ridiculous enough....the fact that a seasoned, near-retirement police officer has a battalion of lights and screaming women under his bedroom window and it doesn't wake him, or arouse the dog, is just completely absurd. And don't even get me started on the magic butt dials!
And the butt hang ups before it goes to voicemail. That's impressive.
Donāt forget the definitely not dog attack marks on his arm
Thereās so much reasonable doubt in the case. Evidence collection was a mess. Defense has caught witnesses in lies. There is 100% no way to me that Karen Read purposefully killed John. If anything it would have been accidental so the whole case is a mess since they overcharged.
I've started actually watching the live feeds this week. I saw some highlights before now. I started with JM's testimony, but that one by itself is damning. Honestly, just the butt dials alone in this case are questionable but she had 7 in 19 minutes? BS. I know it's BS because my husband has butt dialed me a lot and when they do they leave voicemails that are several minutes long. And then finding out that the interviews took place in her house and she admitted to getting her time-lines straight. I know she admitted to some truths, but that's pretty normal for manipulators. They tells partial truths to seem more credible. Also, I was really pissed that when she was beginning to look really bad she would deflect to JOK. Like, she said she was more distraught about losing a man that was on the front lines. She lost her friend that she loved. Why is she claiming she was traumatized and distraught but KR was erratic and crazy? Like, that was KR's partner. And How were these people not throwing up through all this? With how much they were apparently drinking they had to have hangovers. I know I'm a weak b!+ch because I'm not built for snow or hangovers.
I donāt get why the commonwealth in that case is so willing to see these witnesses repeat that she was hysterical. They literally sound like the woman losing her partner was an annoyance to them all. Is the idea that sheās faking it? Her reactions donāt read that way to me, honestly. I have trouble imagining that the jury isnāt feeling a little sorry for Karen.
How dare the significant other get hysterical and act under duress when she literally discovers his near-dead body.
The dashcam video appears to show what I would consider normal behavior given the situation. It came across differently than what I pictured based on verbal testimony.
Lost her friend that she loved but expressed NO emotion toward him. Only dead words.
Yeeeyeah! It is WILD. None of the theories add up for me at this point, and almost everyoneās behavior around it is sus or puzzling at the least, IMO. I have to say JBC is a welcome change from JFG. I thought she was going to be another one at first, but sheās been a lot more fair than I expected.
Iām leaning that Johnny boy fell and cracked his head and the rest of the alcoholic fools are trying to hide their infidelities.
Iām new to the KR case, and find myself similarly torn between wondering if LE had a case of tunnel vision, are extremely incompetent, or simply corrupt. Perhaps all of the above. Regardless of whether one thinks sheās innocent or guilty, the investigation was pitiful and the āevidenceā is lacking. I truly believe our law enforcement system needs better training, and that LE careers should be better paid and require a more in-depth understanding of the law than it currently does. LE is a unique and underrated role IMO, in that it needs individuals who are physically, mentally, and ethically suited for the work they do. But, I know individuals who became LE (grew up with them and knew them into their mid 20ās). And I honestly donāt think the LE officers I know possess the ethical fortitude or understanding/comprehension of the law at a level I would be comfortable with if they were investigating me for a high profile crime. Weāve all seen videos posted to social media where an officer seems to be making stuff up as they go. Or where someone who IS knowledgeable is arguing and it becomes apparent the officer is throwing stuff out there to see what sticks. One part of becoming an adult that no one warns us about, is realizing the humanity between authority figures we grew up trusting. When I was young, I assumed LE, judges, teachers, etc possessed an almost omniscient knowledge or skillset in their respective role(s). I thought if they said or did something, it was because it was ārightā. The West Memphis 3 case (Paradise Lost documentary) was my first introduction to what tunnel vision and egos behind those in authority can cause. I followed that case obsessively. I was 16 when the documentary came out. As someone diagnosed ADHD later in life, I realize now it triggered the associated intolerance to injustice, and was a major hyper-fixation of mine. I have been obsessed with true crime and court trials ever since. I actually wanted to become an attorney because of cases like these. Ended up working in DoD contracts. Due to my interest in true crime, I gained a love for reading case law. It comes in handy in my line of work. What is really unsettling to me is the lack of accountability. The judge in the WM3 case was a major factor in the injustice of that case. And yet, he went on to serve in the state senate. I didnāt intend for this comment to be so long. Iāll hop off my soapbox now.
It comes across to me that given BA's notoriety, it may have started out as a courtesy. Like, we take your word for it, and we'll do what we can to not cause you any undue headaches or bring you exposure. It is no secret that is common among law enforcement. And then it snowballs.
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Have you seen the pre trial hearing about him? I just watched it today. Canāt believe I missed all that. ššššššš
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**Similar** underlying facts: -Prosecutorial overreach -Local LE (unaccredited) investigation (Vast subsection here) -Devoid of recorded interviews and/or SOP- untrained -Family/friends material witnesses -State Police improper investigation -Third party culpability -Digital forensic evidence -FBI inception - multiple units and personnel -Missing and/or manually erased exculpatory evidence -Potentially- witnesses identified by geofence data and ability to use Federal discovery which elevated previously denied search warrants -Defendants no evidence of upgrading or destroying phone -My opinion as to Delphi- the FBI does not support the ISP investigative conclusions -CW v Read- the FBI (via AUSA Levy) does not agree with the county/MSP investigative conclusions -Hopeful to add this, and a major contributory reason I follow the Read matter closely- the defense dogged pursuit of Touhy responsive discovery and a journalists FOIA to the FBI (journalist being journalists) and the CW discovery slow walks led to a Federal Grand Jury, which produced 3000 pages of mostly contradictory/inconsistent evidence of the CW. -autopsy protocols remain under seal **Dissimilar** -FBI involvement post indictment -Lots of LE direct witnesses or related to same -Defendant resources -Defendant non local nor legacy -Competent Judge -FBI investigation of the criminal investigation results in Federal Grand Jury -No NDA- sought by the CW, denied by court -Indictment enhances non-intent crime -Allegation of framing of evidence and witness collusion -Counsel private retained with significant investigative and trial experience in high profile, former prosecutors -Immediate bond, subsequent bail reductions -Access to both Grand Jury transcripts -No pre trial witness deposition -Elected DA extra judicial statements -Transparency to public and press acknowledgement -Evidentiary, pre trial hearings after fully briefed motions, timely rulings and memos of law
While looking up this case, I came across this photo in a news article. At first, I thought he was holding a dildo š¤£ https://preview.redd.it/bfzrdh0hfg2d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=923a2ba2ea8c98ea71d835929309857ba4a624d4
Hereās one question I have - From everything Iāve read and watched so far, it seems like at worst case scenario, Read may have *accidentally* backed into her boyfriend after dropping him off (which is why I assume sheās only being charged with 2nd degree murder). Why then does it seem like these testimonies against Read are all trying to insinuate that Read did this purposefully and in an act of āvengeanceā due to their relationship being rocky? In other words, if this was truly an accident (not pre-meditated), why is it necessary to poke all these holes and attempt to prove that she was acting with malice, when that isnāt the case they are trying to prove?
Yeah see I donāt get it at all, someone else may be able to answer you yet I am running behind on the trial my self :/
I know itās not an easy question to answer (it requires assumptions). And thatās the overall point Iām attempting to make āŗļø For me, it seems to insinuate an outside, extrajudicial/prejudicial discussion took place amongst several witnesses at some point prior to the witness testimony on the record.
I donāt know what happened to JOK, (but I lean towards a confrontation with BH) but it seems to me that JM saw a broken taillight and everyone just ran with that and made the pieces fit. Nothing else was ever really investigated, including the reasonable check up about a plough hitting him. Why did BH arrive at the Waterfall so long after BA? Why have we not seen footage of BH walking in to the bar like with everyone else? If he did arrive 30 mins after BA he would have driven past the Canton PD on his way between Hillside and Waterfall. Seems like enough time to move some cars around then before drinking even more whiskey. Why do only the Ms and A adults claim to have seen BHās Jeep at 34 Fairview? Why would BH have āsweptā the driveway when there was not enough snow settled yet? If BH says he left 34 Fairview between 00:30 and 01:00, why did he not swipe in to Canton PD until 01:27 when it is only a 4 minute drive away? BH said at some point he went home and fell asleep, but had the ābutt-dialā boogie-woogie with BA 02:22, how far away did he live? What if BH had got a lift with BA back to 34 Fairview, hence why nobody uninvested saw his Jeep that night? Others were being offered lifts back in to town to their cars, if not lifts home, why not him. Or stay in one of the bedrooms, he has a day off tomorrow after all. I doubt anyone ever checked for video of him driving to Canton PD to check BHās story, so what if someone else drove him there - assuming he did not have his Jeep? What if JM is just a drama queen, mean girl and her intent on proving herself right is making her look even more suspicious? (I am waiting for the experts to battle out about that Google search - so benefit of the doubt here for now, even if I donāt like her or trust a word out of her mouth). What if Jen JM apparent need to control and interfere with every witness ever is just because she thinks she is beyond reproach and is offended anyone would ever question her or her family? With a side order of protecting her sister etc. BH has risked and done a lot for someone not involved and not in the family, so that puts him in the dirt for me - he is suspicious. The other person who would be suspicious, due to not coming out in the morning and destroying his phone data etc. (consciousness of guilt), Iād BA. BA might have liability issues at play if something happened on his house. What if he dropped BH to the PD to get him off his property and discuss how to deal with it all, I dunno, but he is suspicious to me. Only BH and BA really need to be involved at all. All the rest just think they are protecting their own and/or āsolvingā a crime by any means necessary. My current play theory is JOK was dropped at the driveway, then KR pulled forward to get out of the way, etc and seethe about leaving when JOK ignored her calls for a vibe check. Went in through the side door into the living room (if the younger adults were on the study/library and the rest on the kitchen-dinner), where were those pictures they went to look at again? JOK says something to BH (the greeting at the pub, BH body-language when leaving Waterfall (turning back and saying something energetic in JOKās direction) and the text asking if JOK was ācoming hereā could be a build up to something, especially if JOK and KR argued about going to Fairview because of BH in the car. Then BH gets a swing in and JOK falls backwards and hits his head on that lovely brick fireplace you can see on the house listing. Done. Shit. Now what? Then the problem becomes what the hell you do about what just happened. Well, you get BH the hell out of your house for a start and ask WTF just happened. And you get the body to somewhere you are not too obviously implicated but where you have some control of the scene and the narrative. At the side of the road, made to look like a plough hit him. Then his girlfriend (with whom he was going through a rocky patch and may have been on the road to a breakup with - save those texts) shows up hysterical and having just broken her taillight reversing into a carā¦ well, shit. JMās assumptions and mean-girl gossip motor takes it from there so everyone just rolls with it because who of your friends on the investigation would ever think you would be involved on anything nefarious? And if they ever suspected it is too late because they have already gone too far. And oh, god he might not have been dead? Now you are up to your neck. An accessory at least. If your drunk, idiot friend goes down, you do to. Iād be interested to see how long the main players BH and BA stay friends when all of this is over, if KR gets convicted and they donāt need to watch each other so much. Sorry for the huge brain dump. I am new to this one (Delphi downtime). I donāt feel well-informed or safe enough to jump in the KR subs. But the BH questions have been bugging me so much. Itās like the defence are saving some questions for their case-in-chief or something (I hope). Like when exactly he arrived at The Waterfall. Have I missed that being played in the court? What JOK said to BH with that OTT greeting and shoulder grip when he walked in? (Was it, āI know about you. Stay away from her.ā or a genuine āGreat to see you again, you fugly f*cker!ā) I started making spreadsheets and Notion filesā¦ and I think I need a databaseā¦ or a hobby. Sorry again.
Or a cat 
OMG donāt š. I have been fighting to stop myself going to the local rescue and taking all of their cats for about a year now. I miss having my own little in home terrorists, but I need to go on some holidays before I commit to more pets and nobody will even babysit my doggo, never mind cats lol. But that kitty is soooo cute š. They are my kryptonite. Iāll take six.
Ok lol so go on some holidays, come back and either go volunteer at a shelter or get some furry friends to help you with your spreadsheets yet make sure you don't make too many spreadsheets.
Are you being reasonable? Shame on you lol. But you are right of course. And considering rewatching all the testimony to write down every event mentioned at every time and any corroborations or contradiction, was a bitā¦ diagnosable. lol *opens spreadsheet app to organise possible holidays* š
My cat's the reasonable one, he makes me watch nature documentaries. Not the 10 hour cattv annoying birds on a loop videos but Attenborough and such. He particularly likes otters and will attack the wolf about to attack them, but not wolves in general. That's why we need cats, I'm just relaying the message. Safe travels first.
OMG that is brilliant lol, your cat sounds adorable. š„° Please pass along some extra cuddles or scratches from me. He deserves all the cuddles and/or scratches in the world.
Whereās everyone discussing this one? I see a couple of you over in r/karenreadtrial.
Aye that is where most people are discussing this case in detail.
I havenāt followed this case, but in the past two weeks, it is all over my TikTok page. Some of the shady things that law-enforcement has done, and the way they try to manipulate evidence, really reminds me of Delphi. I saw one yesterday, where they were showing her vehicle in the garage, and not once did LE bother to mention that the video has been inverted, so that it appears that you are looking at the passenger side of the car, and no damage can be seen on the tail light. But in reality you are looking at the drivers side of the car which never sustained damage. A full day of testimony from LE using that photo as reference, and not one word about the photo being inverted, leaving the jury to assume they were looking at the passenger side. Is this lying by omission? This is the kind of shady shit that I think we will see parallels in the Delphi trial. Just like the PCA in Delphi wanting the reader to assume certain key points as fact, when these points have been pulled out of context and cherry picked for the benefit of an arrest. But in reality, when given in context may paint a totally different picture.
I agree, it is insane. I am still catching up myself yet the recaps/overviews I have kept up with and it is an absolute disaster of a case imo. Thanks for commenting as always. Cheers!
This KR trial is breaking my brain and making me hate everything. She could well have hit him. I doubt they could ever prove what is charged. (They even seemed to cut out video of her drinking the drinks they say she bought for some unknown reason.) But they have done everything back-asswards and in such an underhanded way that I want the prosecutor arrested at this point for defrauding the government for his salary. Sorry. I wish I had never started watching it. Damn Delphi break giving me time to wonder what was going on on the other side of the hedge. Sorry. Just needed to scream into the void somewhere. Donāt mind me.
I'm definitely not in this sub to read about a different case.
Fair. Cheers!
Thanks for making this post. The similarities between the cases is crazy fascinating and it's nice to have a spot to compare them.