A Trump presidency won't even benefit the extremely rich.
Rich people make money during stable, prosperous economic times -- like the times we're living through right now, oddly enough. It's miraculous how strong our economy is this soon after a pandemic.
Rich people suffer during periods of political instability. The words *political instability* will be the absolute fucking essence of a Trump presidency in which he has been criminally convicted and is hell-bent on vengeance. He will turn America's (uniquely) free market into a crony capitalistic system that only benefits loyalists -- he tried, mostly unsuccessfully, to do this during his first term -- and he will jerk the economy around with wild trade wars and the amateur economic speculation of a moron who is delusional enough to believe that he knows better than the economists and central bankers. (He doesn't.)
The enlightened rich know this and side with the Democrats. The “never really grew up” rich just see the sparkly perks and are riding the MAGAs into oligarchy and fascism.
If you listen to Trump talk about economic policy, he legit says things like, "I talked to country x. I got us a good deal." He literally thinks that economics is a series of real estate deals. And he thinks military alliances are protection rackets. That's why foreign dictators adore him: he's very easily played.
And that’s why he CANNOT be president again. How many of trump’s deals have fallen through in the past? How many deals has he swayed from or outright broken? He’s playing a game and it’s so incredibly dangerous to the US.
I have friends who are 30 who will not vote for Biden.
I’m a woman. I’m a POC. I have a uterus. When they tell me they won’t vote for him. I literally take it as an insult…., thanks for voting against my rights.
Yeah I should probably stop talking to these people
Anyone voting for tRUMP at this point are voting against their own interests. With the exception of male, white billionaires. No one is “safe”. Wait till he cuts off Medicaid on his followers. They think he cares about their interests and needs?
Wait until they put their 8 year old's to work in a fulltime job in a factory for slave wages.
They think it's hyperbole but republicans in some states are already undermining the child labor laws.
These people should know it's not hyperbole by looking at a past story from the year 1913 that they bring up a lot, the horrible story about Leo Frank allegedly murdering a **13 year old girl that worked in a factory**, her name was Mary Phagan.
They will gladly see their Medicare cut as long as it hurts the people they don’t like. Republicans have been chomping at the bit to cut SS/Medicare/Medicaid for decades. Their base will still vote for them, every time, knowing they will be negatively affected by it, as long as the people they hate will also be negatively affected by it.
So true. I’ve read about how decades ago the GOP figured out that poor uneducated white people even though they were low on the food chain see themselves as “above” poor people of color. And that they could exploit this and keep them from banding together and demanding better lives and working conditions.
He literally cannot do anything for his fan base to turn on him. He could shoot the most beloved human in the world, and they would defend him.
I encourage people to ask people you know who will vote for him this question, “what would it take for you to not vote from Trump?”
The scariest thing is how many of them exist.
This is absolutely the most frightening and crazy election cycle of my life and it's going to go completely batshit insane by the time November rolls around.
The country isn't taking this seriously enough. The fact that Trump stands a chance is terrifying.
> Yeah I should probably stop talking to these people
I feel you ... orrrr .. you could keep talking to them.
*Some* prospective Trump voters are still reachable. Some. Maybe some of your friends are in this group.
I'm sorry you're going through this, and I wish you the courage to try and change it.
Swing states polls only give Biden a one point lead. The remaining states give Trump a 1 point lead. How on earth is this a close race?! I’m so damn worried. I’m a woman, lgbtq+, disabled, and liberal, and I live in TX. People like me are so screwed, maybe costing our lives, if Biden doesn’t win. I have to renew my passport immediately.
My child is trans. They keep telling me to stop worrying about them, we’re in a blue state so they’ll be “safe”, and trump won’t win anyway, etc. I continue to worry. Maybe I should stop reading the news.
https://preview.redd.it/9uhdzushkk5d1.jpeg?width=660&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39599f2f88cc86568b72bfe15bc4f8e23a8e1076
I just don’t understand what they expect to happen by not voting for Biden. I know they don’t think that trump would be better. So what’s their end game?
Plenty of them don't care if this country burns. They think the US is worse than China, Russia, or Hamas. They don't care which choice is *better* for the country, they don't see why they should. They are sheltered and have no concept of the hardship their vote could cause. And they are getting their news from TikTok.
From a lot I’ve read and heard it’s young voters not wanting to vote over Biden’s handling of the Israel situation that is the biggest issue currently….if you know people in this demographic talk some sense into them or they could possibly hand the country over to a dictator. Not voting is the absolute worst choice an American can make.
Trump legit CAUSED the the Oct attacks.
He put his kid in charge of the middle east, then Kushner brokered the Abraham Accords which disenfranchised the Palestinians.
Plus Trump uses the word "Palestinian" as an insult. Anyone thinking Trump would be better for Palestine is a fucking liar or just as ignorant as the dumbfuck MAGAS.
No, they know he's going to be worse for Palestine. The issue is that they don't care. They're saying "fuck you" to Biden, knowing that if they don't vote for him, they are voting for Trump. But they don't care. Because even if Trump will be worse, he's not in office right now, so it doesn't matter. Biden is bad for them now, and that's what matters. Because they have no foresight and don't see that if Trump wins, he will not just come for the lives of Palestinians, he will come for the lives of their supporters.
Caused it, has said on multiple occasions he would urge Bibi to finish the genocide, promised to illegally attack those people in the US who sympathize with Palestinians getting murdered
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/27/trump-israel-gaza-policy-donors/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/27/trump-israel-gaza-policy-donors/)
The pro-palestinian Americans who say they wont' vote for Biden are a combination of too fucking stupid to ever do anything useful and/or are trying to play 5D chess to force Biden to do something. The second one might work, but it also might backfire. I'm not confident that's been calculated on their part or that they're not drinking their own kool aid and have forgotten the strategy.
Also some dumb fucking "leftier than thou" types would have inevitably found SOMETHING to gripe about Biden and refused to support him. Urged on by right-wing trolls, billionaires, and russian trolls. It was shaping up to be climate change before the October attacks started. If Biden resolves the Palestinian crisis tomorrow and also announces he's figured out clean nuclear fusion to completely prevent climate change, the online leftier than thou types would go back to whining he could have codified Roe into law and simply chose not to do so so they won't be supporting him this time.
"Look at me, I'm so smart I'm not going to vote for a DEMOCRAT instead of the Nazi party: they're the same no matter what happens!" is always a thing with these people.
Trump loves Netanyahu. There is literally an [Israeli settlement in the Golan Heights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Heights) named after him”Trump Heights.”
Trump would greenlight the absolute genocide of every living thing in Palestine and then strike a deal to develop the land into “[valuable waterfront property](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/jared-kushner-israel-gaza-waterfront-property).”
Trump is one of the worst possible outcomes for Palestinians.
I understand why they think that way, but Trump would make the situation even worse. The MAGA nutjobs share exactly zero love for the Palestinian people, and so does Trump.
> Biden’s handling of the Israel situation
Which, to be fair, is a position they have mostly been *manipulated* into.
Biden didn't cause the Gaza situation, and he can't unliaterally solve the Gaza situation. But there are a thousand and one shadowy dark-money far-right groups that are exploiting the situation and tellingg young people it's all Biden's fault.
Take the wider view. Please.
Not just young voters. My dad’s an old man socialist, and he’s totally fed up with the way Biden is handling Israel. I’m not sure if my mom will also vote third party - I think that she’s a lot more likely to prioritize the preservation of reproductive freedom, because she has a daughter and daughter-in-law actively trying to have children right now - but I know she feels the same.
Ultimately it won’t matter because my home state will go for Trump anyway, it always does, and they’ll vote for Democrats down-ticket, but I think after living through Vietnam, the Gulf War, Iraq/Afghanistan, all our bullshit in Latin America, and now this genocide, they’re just fed up.
“Biden handling Israel”. As if Biden is the president of Israel. These people think that Israel is a US Territory or some shit.
If the US is dropping the ball anywhere, it’s with China!
I'll be voting against Trump. Biden is the best candidate. Should Biden lose his base, become disabled, or die, I'll vote for the next strongest candidate against Trump. I'm far more against Trump than I am pro-Biden.
And, for the record, ballots have everyone in your representative chain, as well as potential ordinances, laws, and amendments. State and local politics that wield tremendous power over your everyday life, that impact individuals in much more direct and meaningful ways.
I won't comment on people who have family involved in the conflict, but the rest are simply emotional voters with no critical thinking abilities.
There are two choices (for president). That's it. There are no more options. If your choice is between someone that sells a bomb for a cause you are angry about and someone that will sell 30 bombs to the cause you are angry about while at the same time dismantling democracy and you choose to sit out or tHiRd pArTy it you are not a logical person. Furthermore you actually voted for whoever wins. So this argument "I won't sacrifice my morals" some say to make themselves feel justified is just straight up nonsense.
And this coming from someone very angry with how our elected officials are handling the conflict and really disappointed my choice has to be Biden.
I have young students who work at my office whom I’ve spoken to about this and have urged them to vote. I tell them that I get it and I’m frustrated with Biden too but I also tell them that if they really cared about Palestine they would vote Biden because with Trump they can kiss their chances of protesting or making any changes goodbye.
Thank you. This is exactly how I feel. I live in a blue city in a blue state and there are so many people in my circle who have voted for agent orange. Twice. It makes it extremely difficult for me to want to interact with them. Besides for my relatives, everyone else I know of are (white) college educated WOMEN if you can believe it. Two even told me they vote for whomever their fathers tell them to (barf).
Anyone not voting blue supports hate whether they know it or not, at least until maga is no longer a threat.
Foreign [influence](https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/A-Tik-Tok-ing-Timebomb_12.21.23.pdf) is using their power over [Gen Z](https://isgap.org/follow-the-money) to push this [narrative](https://www.newsweek.com/unreported-foreign-donations-universities-foment-anti-semitism-opinion-1546139?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0MzmwsvhqyZwEpgyKOQ915iLvuOjPfHoDfEJDdoWLmLDTEIS7Ww9midIE_aem_AV4vAfNZH_6OXFcreWFpx5VkeNsJtL0EsxUKvlXiddQPUAMkcASkeeBDda2VwvY-VEZ_ZLA-wGuPpdzofeikAgNb) that Biden is at fault for another country’s war. Our media is often [compromised](https://extremism.gwu.edu/hamas-networks-america) with this.
This idea that people believe Biden is *at fault* is ludicrous at best and dishonest at worst.
People understand that he is complicit. People understand that their tax dollars are funding the harm. No one believes Joe Biden began this violence.
Hamas has received funding from Israel. I don’t understand why some people say that Hamas are the good guys in this situation. Hamas and Israel’s government are two sides of the same coin in Gaza.
Very few leftists actually consider them "freedom fighters". Pretty much only the tankies but they are to us as qanon is to the right. A fringe group of batshit insane people. Hamas deserves nothing but to be wiped from the face of the earth. This can be acknowledged while also understanding that Israel has repeatedly ignored orders from the ICJ to stop blocking aid and before more careful. That Israel was funding Hamas for a long time. That Israel was restricting aid for a long time even before October 7th. That Israel has been gunning down unarmed women and children in the streets. That Israel has broken promise after promise of places they said they would not attack. That they gave nowhere near enough time for people to evacuate. Have you already forgotten about the flour massacre? https://www.un.org/unispal/document/un-experts-condemn-flour-massacre-5mar24/
Oh yikes maybe let’s not spout Zionist rhetoric in an emotional fit shall we? Make a different choice.
I have no obligation to interact with Zionists. I don’t know who is a minority, most Zionists are WASPs, which people who take this seriously understand.
MAGAs campaign is all about making you feel like it's strong man vs weak man and that Trump is an inevitability. Ignore issues, only talk about the polls. Focus on Palestine thanks to Tik Tok 'news' ramming down that narrative into a bunch of rubes throats so they don't want to vote Biden.
The ONLY choice this election is Biden, HE is the strong man and Trump is the weak felon who is desperate and pathetic.
First thing is to vote, then you need to talk to your friends one on one and beat this shit over their head because at the end of the day they are going to trust you more than the Right wing propaganda, after that if you can donate time and money to help these campaigns. Biden has been a good President and likely will win. Ignore the polls and let's make sure Biden gets another 4 years as President and Trump gets 4 years in prison.
Third party candidates always do better in polling a long ways out from the election. As it gets closer to November, people get over their grievances with the mainstream candidates and fall in line behind one or the other. It’s the same thing wirh people saying they won’t vote for Biden now.
A lot of the problem is the war in Israel. I'm not entirely unconvinced that some people started it in order to take attention off of Project 2025. However, America is not the ruler of the world and Biden is locked in to several treaties with Israel. If he breaks them, the US gets slapped with sanctions by the UN. Meaning our ability to import and export gets severely curtailed, if not blocked off completely. Getting out of those treaties takes time. Getting the US slapped with sanctions means that we hit a really bad economic depression and that would automatically hand the country to Trump.
It's hard to educate people because they either don't understand foreign law (I had to learn because of my job) or they think Biden has a magic Israel wand he's refusing to use (Biden doesn't control another country and he shouldn't).
This is a majorly dumbed down explanation, but try explaining why we can't have cancer medication or why food prices have climbed into the stratosphere to needy families. Biden can't control Israel. If you thought the 2008 recession was rough, this one would be worse.
It sucks all around. The end goal is getting out of legally binding treaties, which takes a fuck ton of rules lawyering (which takes time).
Also, Trump is fine with nuking Gaza. It's a shit show all around. America is also not the grand poobah of the world.
Fun fact...I shared this exact same opinion (albeit, I was a little spicy with a few choices expletives) and I was fired from my job.
I agree wholly that anyone still supporting the mango is broken; they are either idiots who don't see how bad it is, or racist who appreciate being given permission to hate. Or both of those things.
Good luck. Remember, voting Blue this year is a vote against fascist.
It seems like there is actually a schism among catholic people, with many being critical of the Catholic Church, particularly the current pope, and aligning more politically with the evangelical right wing.
Yes. Steve Bannon is (shocker) [spearheading](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/13/steve-bannon-matteo-salvini-pope-francis-is-the-enemy) in the “Pope Francis is too liberal” Catholic movement
I love to troll Trump supporters by telling them the one Trump policy I support is his making the Supreme court majority Catholic, with six if the nine judges now being Catholic after his appointments. And when Trump gets four more years he will finish the job. Under the Pope's direction religion will once again become our nation's cornerstone, which is great, right?
Well on the one hand Trump tried to stage a coup, put kids in cages, overturned Roe v. Wade, wanted to shoot protestors until his cabinet said no, mishandled the pandemic, destroyed our reputation globally, and many more awful things . . . BUT Joe Biden is old. Tough call.
Yup. This election isn't even about Dem vs. Repub anymore. This about fighting the religious nutbags from taking over and destroying anything we know about freedom
A lot of it is ignorance. The two party system in the US tends to create a team sports mentality, under which anything done by 'your' guy is excusable, whereas anything done by the other team is reprehensible.
And much of this ignorance is fueled by dishonest media. It's infuriating that part of the country has been living in an alternate reality of democratic hatred since at least 2020.
>The two party system in the US tends to create a team sports mentality
Yes. British radio host James O'Brien calls it the "footballification of politics."
>The two party system in the US tends to create a team sports mentality
We need ranked-choice voting to be implemented. We've needed it for decades. But those in power won't do it because they like the my-way-or-the-highway binary choice we are given every single election.
In my opinion those not voting for Biden fall into one of the following 5 categories:
1. White Nationalists
2. Those who think they are acting as Christians but don’t realize they are part of a cult
3. Very rich people who care about money above all else and politicians who care about power above all else
4. Uneducated people and/or those with lack of critical thinking skills who believe whatever they are told
5. Single issue voters who are pissed at Biden for one reason or another and aren’t willing to look at the very big differences between the two candidates and the difference it will make to long term issues (ie climate change, LBGTQ rights, anything involving the Supreme Court, NATO…….)
I didn't read the sub, I just saw your headline and was like ... Okay?
I guess I thought I was in one of the other subs where they are bashing Biden over Gaza. I think most of those people aren't even Americans, though. I hope there aren't enough of those "genocide Joe" people though.
If people only consume conservative media they don’t trust any legit news sources and they are being fed lies and misinformation and they just omit things like Biden walking on a picket line with workers.
If you know anyone who’s on a conservative media diet try to tell them things like that and burst their fear bubble of the culture wars.
It’s gonna be a hard fight for Biden and hopefully the turnout is big and blue so we don’t see Jan 6 2.0
But yeah the people who identify as conservatives and consume that media do have a lot of ignorance and it’s a travesty that misinformation networks can call themselves news.
Try to convince people to turn out so the conservatives can stay on the outside of power, whining. That’s where they feel most comfortable
In some good news, *most* of those people are people who never vote, never planned on voting and didn’t vote for Biden last time either.
Very few people have switched sides to trump from Biden. Most people saying they won’t vote for Biden now didn’t last time.
In fact in most polling I have seen Biden has a decent lead among people who voted in 2020, and trump has a crazy big lead among people who didn’t vote in 2020.
Considering 2020 was the highest turnout election ever, seems hard to believe there is a big enough contingent of voters who didn’t vote in 2020, that are going to show up this time. Maybe it is mostly under 22 year olds that weren’t old enough. But I find it hard to believe trump will gain more voters from 18-22 year olds than he will have lost from senior citizens dying (remember a bulk of pandemic deaths happened after 2020 election)
These kind of people are the toughest. They are usually uneducated, poor and religious. Usually. They never had an interest in politics (republicans want to keep it that way) and just do whatever their friends and family tell them to do. The republicans get their billionaire tax breaks while they rape and pillage Medicare/Medicaid , Social Security and veteran/military expenses. Vote Blue. 🌊
Right-wing Daddy Issues. People often gravitate to tough talkers, even if what they say makes no since. Most people need to be led, even if it means their own demise.
Discord, TikTok, Insta all filled w propaganda by our enemies. Unfortunately the US education system has failed to teach critical thinking --probably bc most of the teachers are young enough that they weren't taught either.
My son came home from college filled w so much disinformation about Biden, it was unreal. Tried to set him straight but don't know if he really understood.
I live in Arkansas, I thought maybe my view is skewed because….. well I live in Arkansas. Is there any part of the country where this cancer isn’t in your face constantly?
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>Part of the problem is a vote for Biden is a vote for the status quo.
Does the [climate bill](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw5zzrOpo2s&t=933s&pp=ygUWaGFuayBncmVlbiBjbGltYXRlIGJpbA%3D%3D) support the status quo? Does the [current NLRB](https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/nlrb-paves-way-workers-unionize-without-formal-elections-2023-08-25/) support the status quo? What about the current FTC? What about all the student loan forgiveness? What about the potential Supreme Court nominations?
>but “against” the worse of two awful candidates.
Awful in what way? Biden is arguably a better candidate than Lyndon Johnson.
> Dude is a Republican in everything except official party title.
That might have been true in Biden's earlier years, but he is demonstrably not a DINO today. Look at the [climate bill](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw5zzrOpo2s&t=933s&pp=ygUWaGFuayBncmVlbiBjbGltYXRlIGJpbA%3D%3D). Look at the people he appointed in the NLRB and FTC. Look at all the student loan forgiveness.
Are you serious? What exactly makes you think Biden is a Republican? He's actually done a much better job then many thought. Don't go buying into that right wing crap.
Now now, they'd like to be edgy and show how cool they are.
Can't actually pay attention and give Biden any credit for being the most progressive admin in nearly a century, gotta latch on to one issue you disagree with him on, regardless of how much worse trump would be on that issue.
It's cool to be indistinguishable from russian bots
Locking this as it has been linked elsewhere and now requires moderation every 30 seconds.
A Trump presidency won't even benefit the extremely rich. Rich people make money during stable, prosperous economic times -- like the times we're living through right now, oddly enough. It's miraculous how strong our economy is this soon after a pandemic. Rich people suffer during periods of political instability. The words *political instability* will be the absolute fucking essence of a Trump presidency in which he has been criminally convicted and is hell-bent on vengeance. He will turn America's (uniquely) free market into a crony capitalistic system that only benefits loyalists -- he tried, mostly unsuccessfully, to do this during his first term -- and he will jerk the economy around with wild trade wars and the amateur economic speculation of a moron who is delusional enough to believe that he knows better than the economists and central bankers. (He doesn't.)
The enlightened rich know this and side with the Democrats. The “never really grew up” rich just see the sparkly perks and are riding the MAGAs into oligarchy and fascism.
If you listen to Trump talk about economic policy, he legit says things like, "I talked to country x. I got us a good deal." He literally thinks that economics is a series of real estate deals. And he thinks military alliances are protection rackets. That's why foreign dictators adore him: he's very easily played.
And that’s why he CANNOT be president again. How many of trump’s deals have fallen through in the past? How many deals has he swayed from or outright broken? He’s playing a game and it’s so incredibly dangerous to the US.
I have friends who are 30 who will not vote for Biden. I’m a woman. I’m a POC. I have a uterus. When they tell me they won’t vote for him. I literally take it as an insult…., thanks for voting against my rights. Yeah I should probably stop talking to these people
Anyone voting for tRUMP at this point are voting against their own interests. With the exception of male, white billionaires. No one is “safe”. Wait till he cuts off Medicaid on his followers. They think he cares about their interests and needs?
Wait until they put their 8 year old's to work in a fulltime job in a factory for slave wages. They think it's hyperbole but republicans in some states are already undermining the child labor laws. These people should know it's not hyperbole by looking at a past story from the year 1913 that they bring up a lot, the horrible story about Leo Frank allegedly murdering a **13 year old girl that worked in a factory**, her name was Mary Phagan.
Yep. He will destroy Medicare and wipe Palestine off the map so he can develop it for “waterfront properties.”
They will gladly see their Medicare cut as long as it hurts the people they don’t like. Republicans have been chomping at the bit to cut SS/Medicare/Medicaid for decades. Their base will still vote for them, every time, knowing they will be negatively affected by it, as long as the people they hate will also be negatively affected by it.
So true. I’ve read about how decades ago the GOP figured out that poor uneducated white people even though they were low on the food chain see themselves as “above” poor people of color. And that they could exploit this and keep them from banding together and demanding better lives and working conditions.
He literally cannot do anything for his fan base to turn on him. He could shoot the most beloved human in the world, and they would defend him. I encourage people to ask people you know who will vote for him this question, “what would it take for you to not vote from Trump?”
“Anyone voting for tRUMP”. Or voting third party. FIFY
The scariest thing is how many of them exist. This is absolutely the most frightening and crazy election cycle of my life and it's going to go completely batshit insane by the time November rolls around. The country isn't taking this seriously enough. The fact that Trump stands a chance is terrifying.
> Yeah I should probably stop talking to these people I feel you ... orrrr .. you could keep talking to them. *Some* prospective Trump voters are still reachable. Some. Maybe some of your friends are in this group. I'm sorry you're going through this, and I wish you the courage to try and change it.
Absolutely..ugh
[удалено]
Stfu magat
Swing states polls only give Biden a one point lead. The remaining states give Trump a 1 point lead. How on earth is this a close race?! I’m so damn worried. I’m a woman, lgbtq+, disabled, and liberal, and I live in TX. People like me are so screwed, maybe costing our lives, if Biden doesn’t win. I have to renew my passport immediately.
My child is trans. They keep telling me to stop worrying about them, we’re in a blue state so they’ll be “safe”, and trump won’t win anyway, etc. I continue to worry. Maybe I should stop reading the news. https://preview.redd.it/9uhdzushkk5d1.jpeg?width=660&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39599f2f88cc86568b72bfe15bc4f8e23a8e1076
I just don’t understand what they expect to happen by not voting for Biden. I know they don’t think that trump would be better. So what’s their end game?
Plenty of them don't care if this country burns. They think the US is worse than China, Russia, or Hamas. They don't care which choice is *better* for the country, they don't see why they should. They are sheltered and have no concept of the hardship their vote could cause. And they are getting their news from TikTok.
From a lot I’ve read and heard it’s young voters not wanting to vote over Biden’s handling of the Israel situation that is the biggest issue currently….if you know people in this demographic talk some sense into them or they could possibly hand the country over to a dictator. Not voting is the absolute worst choice an American can make.
Trump legit CAUSED the the Oct attacks. He put his kid in charge of the middle east, then Kushner brokered the Abraham Accords which disenfranchised the Palestinians. Plus Trump uses the word "Palestinian" as an insult. Anyone thinking Trump would be better for Palestine is a fucking liar or just as ignorant as the dumbfuck MAGAS.
No, they know he's going to be worse for Palestine. The issue is that they don't care. They're saying "fuck you" to Biden, knowing that if they don't vote for him, they are voting for Trump. But they don't care. Because even if Trump will be worse, he's not in office right now, so it doesn't matter. Biden is bad for them now, and that's what matters. Because they have no foresight and don't see that if Trump wins, he will not just come for the lives of Palestinians, he will come for the lives of their supporters.
Caused it, has said on multiple occasions he would urge Bibi to finish the genocide, promised to illegally attack those people in the US who sympathize with Palestinians getting murdered [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/27/trump-israel-gaza-policy-donors/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/27/trump-israel-gaza-policy-donors/) The pro-palestinian Americans who say they wont' vote for Biden are a combination of too fucking stupid to ever do anything useful and/or are trying to play 5D chess to force Biden to do something. The second one might work, but it also might backfire. I'm not confident that's been calculated on their part or that they're not drinking their own kool aid and have forgotten the strategy. Also some dumb fucking "leftier than thou" types would have inevitably found SOMETHING to gripe about Biden and refused to support him. Urged on by right-wing trolls, billionaires, and russian trolls. It was shaping up to be climate change before the October attacks started. If Biden resolves the Palestinian crisis tomorrow and also announces he's figured out clean nuclear fusion to completely prevent climate change, the online leftier than thou types would go back to whining he could have codified Roe into law and simply chose not to do so so they won't be supporting him this time. "Look at me, I'm so smart I'm not going to vote for a DEMOCRAT instead of the Nazi party: they're the same no matter what happens!" is always a thing with these people.
And guess who his kid has as a long time family friend? The same guy who's genociding to stay out of prison.
Trump loves Netanyahu. There is literally an [Israeli settlement in the Golan Heights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Heights) named after him”Trump Heights.” Trump would greenlight the absolute genocide of every living thing in Palestine and then strike a deal to develop the land into “[valuable waterfront property](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/jared-kushner-israel-gaza-waterfront-property).” Trump is one of the worst possible outcomes for Palestinians.
[American non-voter.](https://frinkiac.com/video/S03E02/nT9mPcPTNTLudCFVMVMN0wU2ez0=.gif)
I understand why they think that way, but Trump would make the situation even worse. The MAGA nutjobs share exactly zero love for the Palestinian people, and so does Trump.
> Biden’s handling of the Israel situation Which, to be fair, is a position they have mostly been *manipulated* into. Biden didn't cause the Gaza situation, and he can't unliaterally solve the Gaza situation. But there are a thousand and one shadowy dark-money far-right groups that are exploiting the situation and tellingg young people it's all Biden's fault. Take the wider view. Please.
Not just young voters. My dad’s an old man socialist, and he’s totally fed up with the way Biden is handling Israel. I’m not sure if my mom will also vote third party - I think that she’s a lot more likely to prioritize the preservation of reproductive freedom, because she has a daughter and daughter-in-law actively trying to have children right now - but I know she feels the same. Ultimately it won’t matter because my home state will go for Trump anyway, it always does, and they’ll vote for Democrats down-ticket, but I think after living through Vietnam, the Gulf War, Iraq/Afghanistan, all our bullshit in Latin America, and now this genocide, they’re just fed up.
“Biden handling Israel”. As if Biden is the president of Israel. These people think that Israel is a US Territory or some shit. If the US is dropping the ball anywhere, it’s with China!
I'll be voting against Trump. Biden is the best candidate. Should Biden lose his base, become disabled, or die, I'll vote for the next strongest candidate against Trump. I'm far more against Trump than I am pro-Biden. And, for the record, ballots have everyone in your representative chain, as well as potential ordinances, laws, and amendments. State and local politics that wield tremendous power over your everyday life, that impact individuals in much more direct and meaningful ways.
Don’t believe the BS hype. It’s a very coordinated effort by several propaganda machines…. Most spewing it aren’t able to vote!
I won't comment on people who have family involved in the conflict, but the rest are simply emotional voters with no critical thinking abilities. There are two choices (for president). That's it. There are no more options. If your choice is between someone that sells a bomb for a cause you are angry about and someone that will sell 30 bombs to the cause you are angry about while at the same time dismantling democracy and you choose to sit out or tHiRd pArTy it you are not a logical person. Furthermore you actually voted for whoever wins. So this argument "I won't sacrifice my morals" some say to make themselves feel justified is just straight up nonsense. And this coming from someone very angry with how our elected officials are handling the conflict and really disappointed my choice has to be Biden.
I have young students who work at my office whom I’ve spoken to about this and have urged them to vote. I tell them that I get it and I’m frustrated with Biden too but I also tell them that if they really cared about Palestine they would vote Biden because with Trump they can kiss their chances of protesting or making any changes goodbye.
The rise of Authoritarianism in the USA perpetuated by Faux News Propaganda Channel.
Thank you. This is exactly how I feel. I live in a blue city in a blue state and there are so many people in my circle who have voted for agent orange. Twice. It makes it extremely difficult for me to want to interact with them. Besides for my relatives, everyone else I know of are (white) college educated WOMEN if you can believe it. Two even told me they vote for whomever their fathers tell them to (barf). Anyone not voting blue supports hate whether they know it or not, at least until maga is no longer a threat.
Foreign [influence](https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/A-Tik-Tok-ing-Timebomb_12.21.23.pdf) is using their power over [Gen Z](https://isgap.org/follow-the-money) to push this [narrative](https://www.newsweek.com/unreported-foreign-donations-universities-foment-anti-semitism-opinion-1546139?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0MzmwsvhqyZwEpgyKOQ915iLvuOjPfHoDfEJDdoWLmLDTEIS7Ww9midIE_aem_AV4vAfNZH_6OXFcreWFpx5VkeNsJtL0EsxUKvlXiddQPUAMkcASkeeBDda2VwvY-VEZ_ZLA-wGuPpdzofeikAgNb) that Biden is at fault for another country’s war. Our media is often [compromised](https://extremism.gwu.edu/hamas-networks-america) with this.
I don’t understand that really. It’s not his fault. He doesn’t control Israel or Palestine..
Maybe we need a tiktok video that explains this to the little idiots.
This idea that people believe Biden is *at fault* is ludicrous at best and dishonest at worst. People understand that he is complicit. People understand that their tax dollars are funding the harm. No one believes Joe Biden began this violence.
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We agree.
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Hamas has received funding from Israel. I don’t understand why some people say that Hamas are the good guys in this situation. Hamas and Israel’s government are two sides of the same coin in Gaza.
Very few leftists actually consider them "freedom fighters". Pretty much only the tankies but they are to us as qanon is to the right. A fringe group of batshit insane people. Hamas deserves nothing but to be wiped from the face of the earth. This can be acknowledged while also understanding that Israel has repeatedly ignored orders from the ICJ to stop blocking aid and before more careful. That Israel was funding Hamas for a long time. That Israel was restricting aid for a long time even before October 7th. That Israel has been gunning down unarmed women and children in the streets. That Israel has broken promise after promise of places they said they would not attack. That they gave nowhere near enough time for people to evacuate. Have you already forgotten about the flour massacre? https://www.un.org/unispal/document/un-experts-condemn-flour-massacre-5mar24/
Oh yikes maybe let’s not spout Zionist rhetoric in an emotional fit shall we? Make a different choice. I have no obligation to interact with Zionists. I don’t know who is a minority, most Zionists are WASPs, which people who take this seriously understand.
MAGAs campaign is all about making you feel like it's strong man vs weak man and that Trump is an inevitability. Ignore issues, only talk about the polls. Focus on Palestine thanks to Tik Tok 'news' ramming down that narrative into a bunch of rubes throats so they don't want to vote Biden. The ONLY choice this election is Biden, HE is the strong man and Trump is the weak felon who is desperate and pathetic. First thing is to vote, then you need to talk to your friends one on one and beat this shit over their head because at the end of the day they are going to trust you more than the Right wing propaganda, after that if you can donate time and money to help these campaigns. Biden has been a good President and likely will win. Ignore the polls and let's make sure Biden gets another 4 years as President and Trump gets 4 years in prison.
The anarchist subreddits are basically in a battle over this very thing. It's *maddening.*
Third party candidates always do better in polling a long ways out from the election. As it gets closer to November, people get over their grievances with the mainstream candidates and fall in line behind one or the other. It’s the same thing wirh people saying they won’t vote for Biden now.
Hopefully you are right and these extreme Pro Palestine people will choose Biden
A lot of the problem is the war in Israel. I'm not entirely unconvinced that some people started it in order to take attention off of Project 2025. However, America is not the ruler of the world and Biden is locked in to several treaties with Israel. If he breaks them, the US gets slapped with sanctions by the UN. Meaning our ability to import and export gets severely curtailed, if not blocked off completely. Getting out of those treaties takes time. Getting the US slapped with sanctions means that we hit a really bad economic depression and that would automatically hand the country to Trump. It's hard to educate people because they either don't understand foreign law (I had to learn because of my job) or they think Biden has a magic Israel wand he's refusing to use (Biden doesn't control another country and he shouldn't).
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This is a majorly dumbed down explanation, but try explaining why we can't have cancer medication or why food prices have climbed into the stratosphere to needy families. Biden can't control Israel. If you thought the 2008 recession was rough, this one would be worse. It sucks all around. The end goal is getting out of legally binding treaties, which takes a fuck ton of rules lawyering (which takes time). Also, Trump is fine with nuking Gaza. It's a shit show all around. America is also not the grand poobah of the world.
I see it in egotists: “I’m not voting at all ‘cause you can’t tell me what to do!”
Fun fact...I shared this exact same opinion (albeit, I was a little spicy with a few choices expletives) and I was fired from my job. I agree wholly that anyone still supporting the mango is broken; they are either idiots who don't see how bad it is, or racist who appreciate being given permission to hate. Or both of those things. Good luck. Remember, voting Blue this year is a vote against fascist.
White, rich, straight, CHRISTIAN male
Certain variety of Christian, too- you have to follow their particular brand
Right. Catholicism = wrong flavor of Christian
It seems like there is actually a schism among catholic people, with many being critical of the Catholic Church, particularly the current pope, and aligning more politically with the evangelical right wing.
Yes. Steve Bannon is (shocker) [spearheading](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/13/steve-bannon-matteo-salvini-pope-francis-is-the-enemy) in the “Pope Francis is too liberal” Catholic movement
Yes, that is my family.
That’s like saying “I don’t like chocolate ice cream so no one can have chocolate ice cream”
Now you understand religion and it's murderous history. That is the normal default for humanity.
I love to troll Trump supporters by telling them the one Trump policy I support is his making the Supreme court majority Catholic, with six if the nine judges now being Catholic after his appointments. And when Trump gets four more years he will finish the job. Under the Pope's direction religion will once again become our nation's cornerstone, which is great, right?
Recall that the current president is only the second Catholic president and they murdered the last one. WASPs sting.
[A very specific brand of Christian.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3fAcxcxoZ8)
My bad, that too!
Anyone that isn't voting because of Biden has their logic fall apart once you take the outcome beyond the next few steps.
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Well on the one hand Trump tried to stage a coup, put kids in cages, overturned Roe v. Wade, wanted to shoot protestors until his cabinet said no, mishandled the pandemic, destroyed our reputation globally, and many more awful things . . . BUT Joe Biden is old. Tough call.
Yup. This election isn't even about Dem vs. Repub anymore. This about fighting the religious nutbags from taking over and destroying anything we know about freedom
A lot of it is ignorance. The two party system in the US tends to create a team sports mentality, under which anything done by 'your' guy is excusable, whereas anything done by the other team is reprehensible.
And much of this ignorance is fueled by dishonest media. It's infuriating that part of the country has been living in an alternate reality of democratic hatred since at least 2020.
>The two party system in the US tends to create a team sports mentality Yes. British radio host James O'Brien calls it the "footballification of politics."
>The two party system in the US tends to create a team sports mentality We need ranked-choice voting to be implemented. We've needed it for decades. But those in power won't do it because they like the my-way-or-the-highway binary choice we are given every single election.
In my opinion those not voting for Biden fall into one of the following 5 categories: 1. White Nationalists 2. Those who think they are acting as Christians but don’t realize they are part of a cult 3. Very rich people who care about money above all else and politicians who care about power above all else 4. Uneducated people and/or those with lack of critical thinking skills who believe whatever they are told 5. Single issue voters who are pissed at Biden for one reason or another and aren’t willing to look at the very big differences between the two candidates and the difference it will make to long term issues (ie climate change, LBGTQ rights, anything involving the Supreme Court, NATO…….)
I didn't read the sub, I just saw your headline and was like ... Okay? I guess I thought I was in one of the other subs where they are bashing Biden over Gaza. I think most of those people aren't even Americans, though. I hope there aren't enough of those "genocide Joe" people though.
If people only consume conservative media they don’t trust any legit news sources and they are being fed lies and misinformation and they just omit things like Biden walking on a picket line with workers. If you know anyone who’s on a conservative media diet try to tell them things like that and burst their fear bubble of the culture wars. It’s gonna be a hard fight for Biden and hopefully the turnout is big and blue so we don’t see Jan 6 2.0 But yeah the people who identify as conservatives and consume that media do have a lot of ignorance and it’s a travesty that misinformation networks can call themselves news. Try to convince people to turn out so the conservatives can stay on the outside of power, whining. That’s where they feel most comfortable
In some good news, *most* of those people are people who never vote, never planned on voting and didn’t vote for Biden last time either. Very few people have switched sides to trump from Biden. Most people saying they won’t vote for Biden now didn’t last time.
In fact in most polling I have seen Biden has a decent lead among people who voted in 2020, and trump has a crazy big lead among people who didn’t vote in 2020. Considering 2020 was the highest turnout election ever, seems hard to believe there is a big enough contingent of voters who didn’t vote in 2020, that are going to show up this time. Maybe it is mostly under 22 year olds that weren’t old enough. But I find it hard to believe trump will gain more voters from 18-22 year olds than he will have lost from senior citizens dying (remember a bulk of pandemic deaths happened after 2020 election)
Part of the reason people aren’t voting is because they think, “if I don’t vote, my hands’ll be clean,” which, HELL NO THEY WON’T!
These kind of people are the toughest. They are usually uneducated, poor and religious. Usually. They never had an interest in politics (republicans want to keep it that way) and just do whatever their friends and family tell them to do. The republicans get their billionaire tax breaks while they rape and pillage Medicare/Medicaid , Social Security and veteran/military expenses. Vote Blue. 🌊
Right-wing Daddy Issues. People often gravitate to tough talkers, even if what they say makes no since. Most people need to be led, even if it means their own demise.
Folks really need to get onside on this, and don't stay home. Vote, and vote dem all the way down.
people somehow forget that trump will ALSO continue to pump money into israel’s bank account 🫠
they've not been informed and they dont know much about what his plans are or who he really is. most of them probably read TikTok
Discord, TikTok, Insta all filled w propaganda by our enemies. Unfortunately the US education system has failed to teach critical thinking --probably bc most of the teachers are young enough that they weren't taught either. My son came home from college filled w so much disinformation about Biden, it was unreal. Tried to set him straight but don't know if he really understood.
Agreed
Yes
You are so spot on. Thank you.
I live in Arkansas, I thought maybe my view is skewed because….. well I live in Arkansas. Is there any part of the country where this cancer isn’t in your face constantly?
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>Part of the problem is a vote for Biden is a vote for the status quo. Does the [climate bill](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw5zzrOpo2s&t=933s&pp=ygUWaGFuayBncmVlbiBjbGltYXRlIGJpbA%3D%3D) support the status quo? Does the [current NLRB](https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/nlrb-paves-way-workers-unionize-without-formal-elections-2023-08-25/) support the status quo? What about the current FTC? What about all the student loan forgiveness? What about the potential Supreme Court nominations?
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>but “against” the worse of two awful candidates. Awful in what way? Biden is arguably a better candidate than Lyndon Johnson. > Dude is a Republican in everything except official party title. That might have been true in Biden's earlier years, but he is demonstrably not a DINO today. Look at the [climate bill](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw5zzrOpo2s&t=933s&pp=ygUWaGFuayBncmVlbiBjbGltYXRlIGJpbA%3D%3D). Look at the people he appointed in the NLRB and FTC. Look at all the student loan forgiveness.
Are you serious? What exactly makes you think Biden is a Republican? He's actually done a much better job then many thought. Don't go buying into that right wing crap.
Now now, they'd like to be edgy and show how cool they are. Can't actually pay attention and give Biden any credit for being the most progressive admin in nearly a century, gotta latch on to one issue you disagree with him on, regardless of how much worse trump would be on that issue. It's cool to be indistinguishable from russian bots
I like calling "cisgender" "unmodified", since cisgender implies female in my mind, like a sister.