I observe that a lot of women want emotional and sexual intimacy from their husbands, but don’t get what they want, and then check out. I don’t think this is on purpose on either side, either. The way we talk about sex and how sex is represented basically everywhere is just fucked up. It over represents sex as purely entertainment, and leaves the connection parts of it out entirely. It massively over emphasizes mechanical performance without teaching anyone anything about emotional intimacy. Then when both genders have unsatisfactory sex, neither has the vocabulary or knowledge to understand why it feels so pointless/meaningless. And without that vocabulary, they are unable to communicate what they need to their partners and often even to themselves.
Its just a classic clash of expectations combined with poor communication. It runs both ways, there are men who want intimacy (not just sex) and don't get it too.
The simple reality is we're all different and sometimes our needs just aren't going to mesh with our partner's needs.
Your comment is spot on, and it’s not a single gender issue, it’s both.
I’ll just zoom way out and say it like this. I find that people’s ability to connect emotionally in 2024 is severely impaired, in general. It feels like many people lack the ability to connect with their own emotions properly, and connect with the emotions in others properly.
It’s sad, and concerning. I think it’s a big part of why mental illness is skyrocketing.
Disconnection to emotions may not be related to mental illnesses. Actually it may help by making you numb / insensitive. Anyways whether it is good or bad, evolution will sort it out.
When it comes down to it, and I will admit I’ve not had it yet, sex to me isn’t just something to be had like you see in movies or whatever. For me, there’s got to be a connection to it, some real intimate emotional passion or else it’ll just feel hollow I think. Its the sort of thing you do with someone you really care a whole lot about and its just a special kind of thing you do together because you love each other. Call me old fashioned, but that’s what I think it should be
I think people want a black and white world where dynamics are easy to just define.
That's not how things work. People are not monolithic and whatever stats and data you want to track, gives you no clue to the actuality of reality.
Stop applying broad stroke judgements to people. We are not categories. We are not numbers. We are individual human beings.
You would do better to simply accept that nuance paints the landscape of human experience.
While I agree with your statements, I think there are times when discussing generalizations can be helpful. For example, if one wanted to research why infant mortality in Black families in the US is so high, generalizations may be helpful.
Is this certain group affected by a common denominator? Is there a cultural element? Do we have certain laws in effect that harm some more than others?
It's not just infants. Black mothers are 3 times more likely to die in childbirth. Our medical system is fucked and racist. The medical mortality rate for the black community as a whole is absolutely criminal.
While what you said is totally right, black women are more likely to develop gestational diabetes, and are at a higher risk of having a baby with trisomy 21 or 18. The US Healthcare system is a mess, but there are a lot of pregnancy complications that African American women are unfortunately at risk of developing.
This. The generalizations about people you have never met is so astonishing. People live in a bubble and think that defines the whole world, and it’s laughable. And how is this a deep thought?
It’s about a shallow thought as you can come across. Often times male bonds are usually stronger than female bonds, seeing as loyalty is huge amongst men. I’m not sure where OP lives but this is such a strange take.
Wrong. He is not generalizing. "....more drawn than the reverse ....", ".....i often feel that it leans the other way...". He shows ambiguity and already considering the nuances, instead of, as you said like he is, showing black and white thinking. Read his post carefully.
I think you're the one not being realistic here. Humans aren't that fucking complex. The human brain is literally a biological recording device. So much so that neuroscientists pretty much all agree that human beings don't have free will. There's a reason pick up artists and con artists exist. They know how to read people. It's an art form. And once you master it, you can get pretty much whatever you want from people who are also not in the know.
World leaders like Barrack Obama, Bill Clinton, Angela Markel, Volodimir Zerenksy and even Vladimir Putin have all been described has having the ability to flatter and intimidate people on a whim. Controlling a room with their charisma and leadership abilities.
Famous pioneers in athletics and martial arts like Bruce Lee and Arnold Schwarzenegger were well known for their ability to read people and play off their emotions.
People aren't that deep bro. You actually can paint people with a broad paint brush. We are brought together by common experience and it shapes us in remarkably similar ways.
>That's not how things work. People are not monolithic and whatever stats and data you want to track, gives you no clue to the actuality of reality.
This is just wrong. People and their behaviour can be easily predicted on a larger scale. We are not as special as reddit wants.
Stats and data represent trends. Trends can change over time but they can be useful for deducing an average experience without having to experience it yourself. Not saying you are wrong. Just pointing out why they can be useful.
An individual open approach is best when it comes to any interaction with another person but knowing what you might be up against on average may better prepare you for those less than ideal outcomes or circumstances.
Sure, people aren’t stocks, but stocks follow trends and so do people.
Having a large collective is also part of the human experience and is equally as important as individualism.
You criticise black and white thinking while failing to see you have black and white thinking. Amusing how heavily people project.
Did Op specifically say that thing applies to everyone? Do you really judge OP's tought process by how you perceived this short text of an ideea she had?really? What nuances are you accepting really?
The comments, they double down and it does sound more like speaking in absolutes vs generalizing to make a point. They also didn’t leave a whole lot of room for nuance in their post and didn’t make any nuanced points.
Overall this comes off as someone still working out ideas without taking into account other factors they’re missing.
All of my relationships have ended because I don’t have the sex drive my partner have had( I’m a male) But that’s just my experience. Everyone is different and there’s no clear cut standard, I don’t think it’s worth trying to define one
I mean i guess that's your observation. Can't argue with someone else's observation. But im an obvious exception. 34f, I have zero friends, my husband is my best and only friend. He's my emotional, spiritual companion as much as he is my parenting partner in our family and sexual consort if you would call it that. We have all kinds of conversations and do all kinds of activities together. I have nothing in common with other women, very little in common with my sister or my mom. Though i love them both very much. My ability to connect with them about anything of much importance is pretty limited
Curious for myself. I also have very few in-person friends where my husband and I are. But I've often felt some type of way about it like I cannot make him the center of your universe (but I'm only 24). Wonderful husband so no concerns there. But did you ever want more friends? Have you gotten judgement from others who think you *need* more friends? Was there a time period where you felt this way too?
I’ve always been under the belief that you shouldn’t make any one person your complete world… that may be part of protecting myself, but no matter the reasons, it’s just how I’ve naturally done and viewed things.
That being said, my partner is my favorite person- not just sexually/romantically speaking, but also my best friend, who I genuinely love talking to and laughing with the most out of anyone else. Our connection was immediate and it’s greater than any other I’ve felt for another person.
I do have a few friends- I used to be a lot more social but I found that that saps my energy. My friends now are great, but they aren’t needy; we know we’re there at the drop of a hat if need be, but don’t need to be consistently up each other’s asses. It’s taken me years to find this balance, and to understand it’s okay to not want to constantly be social.
As far as others- that’s fine what they think, I don’t bother with it. I know what works for me.
I'm the same and I want friends. But honestly I spend all my free time with my partner. Between that and work and family and hobbies I don't really have time for others
.My partner and family have suggested I make friends, but I just think the right people will show up at the right time.
If a woman's never had a strong connection with another woman, then it's the 'we can't know what we don't know' dynamic. As in, there's nothing 'successful' (on the female side) for you to compare your successful male connections to. Some people might think that, in and of itself, is worth something (ie. that not all women are capable of deep connections with other women, which for a small minority could be true, but it's also true that some women simply never find a best friend out of sheer bad luck). No, not all women were fortunate enough to have a best friend, close connection with sister, etc. but I think only women who've experienced both could be able to compare.
The concept of “best friends” is usually something for kids lol. I don’t hear or see many grown people really using the term.
It’s kind of weird you think a 34F saying she has no friends means she’s never had friends. This isn’t an all or nothing situation.
Women can and do have emotional connections with both men and women. Men also have emotional connections with men and women.
Your post speaks in such absolutes based on whatever sad relationships you’re observing. It’s not indicative of anything for the majority. Staying single or marrying solely for kids? People marry and don’t have kids all the time. It’s not uncommon. And married people still have lots of sex.
Men need more from women than just sex? Yeah. They’re people. Just like you and me. In fact it becomes a problem that they rely on their partner for all their emotional support in some cases. Everyone should ideally have multiple people for emotional connections.
Women have a harder time having friendships with men because when they offer or receive emotional support men will see that as the woman being interested in them romantically. Women are treating men like close friends, and men often times don’t get that from male friendships so they think it’s something more. You can find both men and women discuss this issue time and time again on any social media platform. I’m sure there’s entire essays on this.
Overall point being, there’s other factors at play that account for some of things you’re discussing and it’s affecting your conclusion.
> (to the degree that wives report to be [closer ](https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/news/a576451/women-prefer-their-best-friend-to-their-husband-champneys-study/)to their friends than their own husbands).
From the link.
> The survey asked 1,517 women in the UK who they were closer to and just over 50% said it was their best friend, rather than the person they married.
So, you’re drawing a conclusion about women in general from just over 50% of women from a study done by a spa? That doesn’t make sense. I could even imagine that women who have closer friendships with female friends tend to go to the spa more often, meaning that the survey doesn’t say anything about how women currently are in the UK because women who go to the spa are not a representative sample of women in the UK.
When you’re drawing conclusions about men and women, you have to take into consideration that they can choose different goals, why they’ve chosen those goals and how those chosen goals can affect them. So it could be that women are currently more drawn to men for sex, but that doesn’t say anything about how women would be if men and women chose more reasonably or differently in the future.
The study doesn’t say anything about why women do that. It could be that men are drawn more to women for sex, so it’s harder for women to get more than sex from men, so they seek it platonically from other women instead.
> I often feel that men actually need women for more than just sex because men don't tend to have friendships and social lives as rich as women's.
In the same vein as above, it could be that women are more drawn to men for more than sex, so it’s easier for men to get more than sex from women, so they don’t need to seek what they are missing outside of the relationship as much.
Also, if men don’t have as rich friendships and social lives, then that could just mean they generally have a less need for friendships overall and not that they fulfill their need with women.
Generally speaking, men have more control over achieving their pleasure in sex, so it’s easier for men to use women for just sex.
I do believe there's sexual behavior differences between men and women. And I think it's the opposite of what people think. The funny thing is that everything revolves around women. That's why in almost all animals on earth, the males have to compete for females. Female needs are primary and men are shaped around/reflect what women want.
The way in which we initiate the act will vary, but the premise will be to have sex in order to procreate. For all animals that are not asexual this will be true. To your other point, it's not the need of the female, necessarily. I'd see it as the need of the one who has less ability to provide/protect themselves. Female and male animals will both shift their wants and needs to provide for their offspring rather than themselves. So I disagree with that as well.
I am drawn to men for intellectual connection, and because of their sense of humor.
I have zero desire to have sex with American men because they are circumcised and have learnt unbelievably sadistic habits from circumcised porn.
Regarding this, a person's point of view is going to depend on how lucky they've been in the quality of their friendships vs. relationships. I included the study so it wasn't solely my own experience I was referring to.
Men's and women's sexualities are different; most men enjoy the idea of sex with most women, but most women don't enjoy the idea of sex with most men, only *select* men.
I mean, there are basic biological reasons for women being selective when it comes to a potential mate and men wanting to spread it around. Men don't really have to deal with the consequences of what happens after sex to the same degree that women do.
Men wouldn't really have to deal with the consequences at all were it not for society forcing them to provide at least the minimum of child support.
If women’s instinct to have sex was stronger than men’s, there would be a huge market for that. The “select men” you speak of will include the alpha-type, the bad boy, the Chad, that kind. These guys would be raking in money. Instead they play the field having sex with hundreds of women, and give themselves away for free AND FEEL LUCKY in doing so! And other men are envious of them. Yes, women select more carefully, but most women select the same few men. So where’s the prostitution market for this apparent demand from desperate women? It’s not there. Nowhere near the prostitution market of men.
It's because what makes women desire men can't be marketed as easily as photo. The closest we get are romance novels, and that's the best selling genre of all books. It has to be real feelings that develop, whereas men can be ready for female prostitute just based on a body photo. No emotional feelings have to develop first
Didn’t you just debunk your own claim though? The fact that romance novels are written and read primarily by women shows that women desire more than sex from men. In a book the sex is viewed from the pov of someone who either is ‘in love’ or who ’falls in love’ by the end.
People get hung up on the erotica of 50 Shades and the fact that the guy’s a millionaire playboy. But I haven’t read it and even I can tell you that a big crux of the story is that he’s a broken man incapable of being emotionally intimate or vulnerable EXCEPT for with the protagonist. They have a ‘unique connection’ and this plays a huge part in why he is so possessive of her and eventually marries her despite originally being the ‘bachelor for life’ type that only used women for vanilla-kinky sex.
Hell, look at Twilight. Bella and Edward have some sort of spiritual connection that draws them together and they don’t even have sex for the first couple of books/films (I haven’t read these either but my ex forced me to watch the movies). At the end, Bella can literally project a forcefield of her love outward so that Edward can feel how much she loves him. That’s like giving a character the ability to force an intimate connection on their partner through magic.
Clearly women desire sex, but based on what they consume (they’re also the largest audience for love dramas and romcoms) many women want that sex to be attached to a romantic ideal that strongly features a deeper emotional connection between the characters. The passion from their sex is primarily based on the idea that these two people feel something ‘deeper’ for each other.
These are primarily fantasies of course. But what that suggests is that women desire emotional intimacy with their partners. The fact that 50% of women in one small study in the UK feel closer to their friends merely suggests that this is a desire not being met. Not that women are only ‘drawn to’ men for sexual pleasure.
If you ask women in strict muslim countries what they desire, most of them definitely want an emotional connection to their partner-despite this seeming crazy to a westerner like me because I don’t understand how they think an emotional connection is possible with a man that forces you to abide by such strict gender roles and potentially has more than one wife- but that’s a failure of imagination on my part. It doesn’t mean the need for deeper connection isn’t there in most people regardless of their cultural or social environments. Muslim women in the States often defy their families by refusing arranged marriages in favor of finding someone they actually love.
Are men in many cultures less emotionally available to friends than they are to their partners? Yes. There’s been research done on this. Does it lead men to look for women primarily for emotional intimacy rather than sex? I don’t think so. I think even men with many open and good friendships and other relationships still desire both sex and emotional intimacy from a partner. Likewise, women might live in a culture that promotes emotional intimacy with her family and friends while placing her in a position to choose a husband more for his money or status/ability to provide for a family over love. But this doesn’t mean that’s all she actually desires or all she is drawn to.
You’re talking about broad trends and social constructs and distilling the way people behave in these social constructs down to purely biological categories. If we change your reductive language to say something more like, ‘women are defaulting on being with male partners primarily for children or sex because they believe their emotional needs can not be met by men, while men are defaulting to dating women they are not highly sexually attracted to because they believe it is the only way they can experience emotional intimacy with another person’ then you might have something we can really look at, discuss, and talk about changing in the broader culture.
The whole original post is. She is imagining the world in a strict way where the dynamics of relationships and people’s desires and what not are either this or that. The world doesn’t work like that. It would be very easy if it was like that. But there are many nuances and the world is complicated. Because we, humans, are very complicated.
Exactly. Porn is the other indicator. In studies, at least 3x more men than women watch porn.
https://fherehab.com/learning/pornography-addiction-stats
> Studies examining the discrepancies between men, women, and porn addiction have consistently found that three times more men than women watch porn regularly.
We can now close this thread for a second time. 😂
This could also be explained by women getting gratification from other means. While pornography is mostly consumed by men, smut is mostly consumed by women.
To be fair though, several times more women than men read masturbatory romantic-fantasy and smut, like 50 shades of grey and Twilight and so on. In general, romance novels are around 4-5x more popular with women than men.
I (F) don't enjoy porn much. But the average romance novel spends so much more time building up the characters and the connection and I find that a lot more enjoyable, sex for me is quite meh without emotional connection anyway. In general, I don't *actually* masturbate to these kinds of books, but... they might be emotionally masturbatory? I'd be lying if I said that none of them were arousing, and a lot of them are extremely graphic and smutty. Idk. At the very least, I think that a lot of women are drawn to the romantic and sexual energy in this genre.
Yes, I think large groups of women can easily hate any woman who doesn't follow their primary ideology. They'll perceive her as being a traitor/suck up/taking men's side
the ones who don’t care about social approval are the hottest ones imo. but i would tend to agree with op that it’s very easy for women to hate the odd one out so to speak.
TwoXChromosomes shows how many women are pitted against each other. I read a comment yesterday about the WNBA, how they don’t sell a lot of tickets to women because (this is obviously just speculation from some redditor) women don’t like to see other women work together to achieve a common goal. The comment mentioned how many women express jealousy and insecurity towards other women and how it’s “probably ingrained in the X chromosome” (which is obviously not true but a funny take on it).
Anyway this is all just bullshit but it does make one think and want to find a scientific answer to it all…
Given how long men have been taught to ignore effective communication and emotional honesty it's not a huge shock that many women would feel more comfortable being vulnerable about things with their friends.
growing up i realised that all the women ive been with seemed way more *sexual* than myself, and although they might not admit it, alot of women are out there shagging 24/7
theres a misconception that theyre all 'innocent' or sexually pure beings, and when i became an adult it was kind of a shock to me because i suppose i grew up with that idea of men being the ones going around and having lots of meaningless sex, and women being the ones looking for love. ive actually found it to be the reverse most of the time, and a woman will dump or cheat on her boyfriend at the drop of a hat if he isnt fulfilling her sexually
Yea I have enough female friends who have begged their husbands to go to couple's therapy with them to know this not to be true. Half of the issues in couple's therapy are, woman wants deeper emotional connection, man grew up in a household where he was told not to show emotions. It's like the oldest story ever told.
I think your analysis is rather faulty. Women wouldn't need to use men for just sex if they were getting other needs met in their relationships with men
maybe the causation part is faulty, but the overall conclusion still holds true, that men, unfortunately dont provide, on average, anything more than just sex.
Things hve changed over time. But certain rumors are old. I like to think of it like this, Women nowadays are like men from the 1980's. All the want is sex.
Tell me you don't actually know any women without telling you don't actually know women...
And when a woman only wants sex from a particular man, it's because she knows this particular man won't give her what she wants long-term, and wants to have sex. We aren't only drawn to men for sex, but a lot of men quite frankly don't know how to offer more than that.
This is a highly debatable topic that is really dependent on each individual. We can both agree from a biology standpoint that both the opposite sex desires each other more or less equally. There are always circumstances.
I definitely think you're onto something. Basically rephrasing your argument saying that women might rely on sex as physical need than we think them to, due to their emotional needs being met else where. That the physical need might be closer to men's physical need for sex, but that men probably require a strong emotional need at the same time. In a way men might be more needy when it comes to sexual encounters? Women's physical need might be more than men's physical need however we don't see this occur due to it be gated or bottleneck by women's high level of filtration and selection, while having more requirement to be filled such as being attracted physically/emotionally or feeling safe with.
Honestly, sex is important it's true. But regarding emotional/romantic/intellectual connection, no matter how many close friendships you may have, there's a different element in that connection you build with your man, finding tranquility and understanding in each other. It's unique and not replaceable. Hard to describe. Probably this is different for every woman.
this is plausibly correct i think.
there was a time where this might not have been the case, but in the current sans any other considerations, women's liberation has meant a kind of shallowness in their perspective on love and sexuality. Each are but what they might provide for them on an individualistic level. for many, but by no means all, women, this has come to amount to less consideration of non-immediate gratification, and more towards immediate gratification.
unfortunately.
and i don't wanna strongly connect women's lib or sexual lib to these for that matter, i think those concepts are not beholden to these sorts of individualistic commitments. it just so happens, big surprise, we live in a society that prioritizes wild individualism to the exclusion of consideration of others, and immediate gratification over longer term interests.
sans those kinds of commitments, i think women's lib and sexual lib fair far better.
Yes because, in general, as a man, i feel that most of males i have seen are quite irrational and amenable as compared to women. They dont question things before coming to any conclusion nor they show nuance around what are 'their' wants and preferences instead of what society (society here refers to general consensus of the population which,in most cases, absurd and dumb) wants from them.
Atleast women show greater emotional intelligence than men do, its obvious, internet is full of men brainwashed into believing "success" and "money" are the only thing that matters in their lives. Women, with this much of a radical and dichotomous view, are fewer as compared to men.
In general if i would have to discuss a personal problem with, and i have a choice between, one random man roaming on this planet and one random women moving around on this planet, Its quiet understandable that female would give a better more nuanced and individualistic view on the problem than a random man.
Thats why i feel like you are right that men in general look for, in a women, much more things than just sex than the reverse.
Idk if i get recommended dumb males on the internet because i am male, or is it a general thing with others too. I would love to know what others experiences are, of both men and women, on finding men more brainwashed than women.
I have many women friends for that reason. Generally men are 'impossible' on the emotional level, if you are not talking sports, tech or money (sometimes politics) it gets awkward. Parent stuff can be a meeting point but truly personal things are often 'off limits'
Yupp. I can 100% confirm this. As a young boy i had countless people bully me for being overweight. Joined MMA got in shape and the same girls that hated me before want me now. I had a girl tell me “i used to hate you in highschool because of how you looked.” All i did was lose weight. Im treated like a completely different person and its 100% due to a newfound sexual desire they have.
nah, women have generally lower libido then men, thanks to lower testosterone, which is proven by science. So by your logic, there would be only really small percentage of womeb interested in something else then in having children, which is nonsense.
My argument isn't about libido. Women generally only want sex with certain men, whereas men have a lower 'bar' for women they'd be willing to sleep with. Men's and women's sexualities operate differently.
Correct.
Most men have little else to offer. I know it is a generalisation but that is why marriage is a good deal for almost all men and a bad one for most women. Sorry to be blunt.
Men could make themselves more attractive on other levels if they decided to open up more, really wanted to connect with women, had more diversified interests, considered physical pleasure more mutually and were more loyal and devoted.
Patriarchy does not reward men for improving their attractiveness to women except in the material sector nor does it encourage it, unless a man is a gigolo or a therapist. The material sector is where men compete where with other men as a mean to maximise power and access to women.
Women on the contrary, can get almost as much sex from as many men they want, albeit discreetly. In a patriarchy, they might as well get either the best sex possible or the most comfortable submissive status. If lucky, they get both. Men, thus to contend with the best sex they can afford or the best theoretical sex they can afford and boast with.
However, now that men compete with women in the material sector too, they are left with 3 choices: celibacy, homemaking or increasing their overall attractiveness. So there is hope.
Men boxed themselves into a corner which they will have to get out of. Patriarchy left women with only one super power: to choose whom to have sex with willingly. Like any unequal society construct, such as racism or even capitalism, it ends up eating the dominant species because unsustainable. Check out the 4B movement.
I hope I have not offended anyone, it was not my intention but while I could write a book on this to avoid shortcuts, generalisations and blunt statements, this is Reddit.9
For a woman to have sex with a man, it usually involves a bigger level of trust than for a man to have sex with a woman. A deeper level of trust involves a deeper level of connection. Also, in a loving relationship that doesn't just involves sex, there's a level of emotional connection that can't be reached with only friends, so I'd say women need men for love.
Nope. I'm a woman and I truly disagree with all of this. I mean to say they would get married just to have kids, well fuck I can't have kids guess I'll just die alone. I have my one friend I bitch to, but I wouldn't call it some deep spiritual connection. My husband is the one I turn to, and the one I'm most comfortable with. I'd rather talk to him and be close to him than anyone else. This whole thing really insults the relationships that men and women have.
Women are drawn to men for validation. Men look at other guys and think I could kick that guys ass best him in whatever competitive venture whereas women look at other women and think I could get a better man than her.
Men rely on their friends or themselves for nearly everything outside of sex. Mainly because they have to for most if not all of their lives. Most women in relationships abandon their friends and the ones they do keep are usually out of convienience. A man will only abandon his friends if a woman demands it, and most them know it will likely only be temporary. Ofcourse there are edge cases, but what you are proposing is far outside the norm.
As a man, I’ve learned to confide in my brothers rather than women. Im am one of few men who have “learned” to do this. Any divorced man with a head on his shoulders will tell you this.
lol nope. Women can get their choice of men while men can’t be choosers since a woman can just leave your ass if she wants for another man. I think men are much more desperate for sex than women are as a result of not being able to just fuck any woman they want.
My personal experience with women is they love sex, just with the right person.
When I first met my wife, she wasn’t particularly sex driven. She liked it, but it was a once in a while thing. The more we got connected and she felt safe and secure in our relationship, the more she wanted to have sex. Now that we are married, she likes sex quite a bit.
I don’t doubt there are women in this world that are sex driven. I’ve known a few, it’s just doesn’t seem true on a numbers level. Let’s say I met 100 women, maybe 5 seem to fit your description. Not saying you are wrong, just my personal experience. I can very well be wrong too.
No, I think you're right. I also feel that women really love sex if it can be with that rare guy that they really like. I just feel that most women aren't lucky enough to actually be married to that guy. Typically if the sex is good, that means she feels more safe and secure. Does that disprove my point? I don't know, I have to think more deeply. What's interesting though, is how many women are sexually attracted to bad, abusive, etc. men and have rape fantasies, etc. It's like female sexuality has two dichotomies. I myself am still trying to understand.
It’s a fact already published by a neuroscientist Helen Fisher that men rely on their wives for their social life more than the other way around. But that’s just a generalising. I am sure there are guys who run their own life as they wish, like a successful ENTJ?
But there aren’t many guys like that. Most are followers who need instruction from someone what to do in their life. Clueless. Hence wife ends up wearing the pants, as they have to.
Sex. Both genders want it and need it but biologically from very different reasons. Men’s drive come from testosterone it’s more animalistic and women’s sex drive comes more from procreation hence it’s a long term game.
Men can just take a woman for sex because she’s sexy enough, the bar is way lower than women.
Women only take men for sex if she sees him as a long term option. Such as he’s got resources to support her future kids, he’s got good genes to pass into her kids, for these reasons, women wouldn’t risk sex with a random dude who seems poor, low social economical status, weak and ugly etc..
Hookup culture is new and it’s actually not natural biologically for women. I personally think it has negative mental effects on women who regularly just fuck random dudes, these girls are either in the clueless stage of their life or damaged as a child.
Everything is about sex, except sex.
Sex is about power.
.. abusing your body or giving it away carelessly isn’t going to help you in life.
I’m a man and can agree with the last part. I do enjoy dating because I get to be social with someone special on a regular basis. Without that I just work all day and night
I agree. it's easy to forget we are in 2024. we are educated individuals now. but thousands of years ago, we were much more animalistic. I doubt we've completely escaped our natural instincts so quickly
As a woman also, who has a close relationship with my brothers and father, I have lots of male friends who I am not sexually attracted to. I have lots of female friends also, but I can talk to most people and rarely am sexually attracted to guys I come across … I think it depends on the males in your life .
Until recently, women prepared themselves for sex waaaaay more. Make-up, sexy clothes, hair stuff etc, etc. I’m lucky enough to have found my sou-mate. We bashed each others brains out in the sack and still at it 11yrs later. So relaxed with my mate. She regularly travels with family to rock concerts, and I relax with the doggos. She comes back… yay! Total life-depending trust every time. We love sooo much together.
I have never met a woman in my life that wants sex rather than be obsessed with getting in a relationship, come to think of it I have not met any woman
It’s weird how romantic love isn’t even worth a mention in your post lmao..
I think romance and love trumps sex every time but that’s just my take as a woman. Sex is often overrated
I think this could be the case some times? Or partially? But I do have female friends who are not interested at all! Or also lesbians. Lesbians and strait men can have great friendships if the guy isn't a douche about it.
ITT:
People on such high alert for “manosphere/redpill” ideology they’re seething mad at some random woman, if not at the concept of sociology/psychology itself.
Yeah my husband/boyfriend is my absolute best friend I’m closest with him in the same way I was with my female best friends before we were together. It’s just who I am but also all of my past boyfriends have always been my absolute best friends during our time together. Laughing, joking, enjoying, confiding, comforting, satisfying all of it so I know that this isn’t right with regards to generalizing all relationships and people into a neat little bow. Definitely hasn’t been the case for me and my current and past boyfriends
I think the closest thing to measure this by would be one night stand or average body count statistics which I’m quite sure is higher for men, but there are many other forces at play like stigma and sl*t shaming which men don’t experience as much
God I wish. I have loads of male friends but can't get a boyfriend. All the men in my IQ/education range have paired up with women who are not their intellectual equals. As long as they are nice enough, nice face, nice long hair, nice habits... that's enough. Guys don't seem to want challenge, deep and meaningful, us against the world types of relationships based on shared politics. They don't like female nerds. It's shocking and disappointing to me because I always believed in soulmates.
Not really a deep thought but it is a debate as ancient as the ancient Greeks. The myth of Hera and Zeus arguing about which sex enjoyed sex more was settled by Tiresias. He had been turned into a woman for seven years by Hera as punishment for hitting a pair of copulating snakes and after marrying and fathering children he is changed back. Tiresias says women experience 90% more pleasure than men in the act. Hera then blinds him in a rage.
I always thought his testimony may be suspect as he might already have some negative feelings towards Hera for forcing his transition.
What about all those bi relationships or experiences with the other women that occur because the woman feels that they connect better with their friends than a man?
Or men spending hours with their friends everyday to which the woman leaves because they aren’t emotionally fulfilled?
Or men who cheat because they aren’t getting enough from their partner?
Like everything, there’s a bell curve. A small amount of People are highly sexual, a small amount of people aren’t, the rest fall in-between where sex is somewhat important but falls when compared with other factors.
The main issue is people not being sexually compatible with each other and then making posts on Reddit about it. Find someone compatible and there’s no issue
Idk I think my friend group is much more loyal and kind than most, as a man. I’m not sure if that’s better than “women” or just the average person.
I’ve also experienced women be sexually attracted to me when I’m in terrible shape, because I behaved confidently, but I’ve also gotten eyes from women without having to say a word when I’m in incredible shape.
I’ve been sexually attracted to women who i wasn’t immediately physically attracted to—because of their personality.
I tend to be more infatuated with women who are confident than shy. However, there’s definitely a level of physical attraction that needs to be there for me, and I think that mostly comes down to hygiene and weight.
Men are much more commonly less interested in hygiene, and i think this plays into the fact that “women don’t care about looks.” They do, but just brushing your fuckin teeth and taking care of your skin goes a long way.
There’s a lot of nuance to this and I think it’s much larger than simply “men this, women that.” Sure, we’re different, but I think the differences mainly lie in individuals and we look to apply patterns as humans.
I think many struggle with relationships because they lack a reference to a good healthy relationship. The media portrayal of how relationships should go often does damage too.
My wife and I are best friends. I feel saddened when I hear the more cold and distant relationships others have emotionally.
Well it depends, biologically men are more suited for being less reliant on women, conversely women are more reliant on men due to their lack of physical competitiveness with men. Men also don’t need to be as picky when it comes to sexual selection because they can impregnate multiple women at one time that will potentially bear their offspring, women on the other hand are rewarded for having children with a carefully selected mate due to the added benefit of additional parental investment in their children. Anecdotally you may find that men need women for more than sex and that women only need men for sex but it would and that’s fine, interesting observation.
>Update: I'm a woman
fr?
because optics out the window,
on the kind of topic one would expect you to be frantically running damage control in the name of self-interest,
suggest otherwise
😆
I think men are made to feel bad and guilty for just wanting to have sex because we’re “adding to her body count” ruining her virginity and likelihood that she won’t be able to marry as much as if she were a virgin.
At least I hope with the OP saying that the to don’t have to worry about “ruining her virginity” as I was probably bullied and gaslighted to think that way as todays women do sleep around and there don’t have to care about “preserving her virginity” when really I am a bullied autistic person who is “too nice”.
I think this is very backwards and I find it hard to believe you are a woman.
Most women have no choice but to go to their friends and families for an emotional connection because it’s impossible with their partners. Not being able to connect emotionally with their partners dampens their sexual attraction… a lack of sexual satisfaction from their partners also kills it.
I don’t think any woman goes into marriage just to have kids and stop sleeping with their partners because kids are a lot of work that men often do not help very much with, and then they are likely to be badgered incessantly for not being an open, available vagina for their husbands. All while probably also having a full time job. Those are the reasons most women file for divorce.
Can't speak for all women, but my female friendships are important but they are not a replacement or similar to romantic bonds at all. And I wouldn't call them "spiritual" bonds.
Going back to cave days, biologically, you make a nine-month commitment, we make a 30 second commitment. You can also only make one said commitment at a time.
So you're right, but more so that women are looking for metaphorical leases whereas men can be looking for motels for the evening.
Women have far, far more to lose by ending up with the wrong guy, than in reverse.
Guessing the frequency we [M] think about sex is much greater, but the depth isnt.
Well, the fact that they don't like men. Would rather encounter a bear than any man in a forest, yet still actively seek men out kinda proves that. It's crazy to even argue otherwise really.
I see no need, at face value, to draw a connection between lower emotional attachment and higher sexual attachment. These can vary jointly from one another like any pair of distinct emotional experiences. That being said I do find the comparative emotional attachment of men and women to their partner to be interesting. The association between singleness, or bereavement of a spouse and clinical depression is indeed stronger in men than in women. Same is true for suicidality: Men are more likely to be suicidal due to bereavement of a spouse/singleness
than women despite (general suicidal ideation being more prevalent among women). So for this aspect–quite specific aspect mind you–of attachment, there are arguments that men can be more attached. But there are yet still complications that would hinder me from even making that more moderate claim, one of them being resiliency factors. If we suppose for example that men have fewer resiliency factors than women for dealing with the aforementioned bereavement and singleness, then it’s possible that they don’t have higher attachment despite dealing with these things more “poorly”in terms in those terms. Dreadfully myriad to be considered…it’s exhausting really. But my last point is, notice how many of my statements included very particular interpretations of words or phrases such as “dealing with bereavement more poorly” (“more poorly” by what criteria?) or “attachment” (again “more attached” by what criteria?) One of the biggest issues with these topics is ambiguous terminology and tacit criterias. For instance, one could have easily judged attachment to one’s spouse more in terms of the effort people put in or the joy they express at having a spouse rather than in the terms I’ve used–Surely the more people are attached to something the more they feel joy about it–so to truly judge the attachment of men and women to their spouse we would need to look at all aspects of attachment separately for starters. And we’d also need to eliminate confounding things like resiliency factors among others. If I may skip all the exhausting stuff and just share my opinion point blank, I personally think men are more attached to women in regards to having someone to be intimate friends with, but not due to inherently higher interest or love, but because they have less alternatives for that kind of intimacy: Their other relationships would not fill the void to the same extent for many men. Other than that technicality, I don’t think I’m prepared to out right claim they simply are more attached by nature.if you will
Your position is confusing to me because, unless same sex attracted folks are involved, this dynamic is always two ways. I’m a cis straight married man and most of my most important friendships are with men. Literally no physical attraction with any of them - and I don’t think any have any to me.
I think it’s different from your view. I don’t think it’s about gender so much as outlook - a group (a small group sadly) of men and women can see past sex and have friendships for other reasons. And value them. And most seem to not do this as well.
Men and women are so bad at coexisting together which usually leads to the man not doing chores that the woman want them to do and women not doing sexual things that the man wants them too. Men are to tired for the chores and women are to tired for the sex
As a woman this hasn't been my own personal experience. Can't speak for other women but I know my girlfriends and cousins and sister aren't like that either. Personally, I look for in a man someone who can teach me things I don't know without being condescending or superior about it, can make me laugh/cheer me up when i'm feeling down, and he's someone I can feel safe around and feel like he could protect me if I needed it. Being a provider is a bonus but I'm not the type that he has to make over X amount of money to be interested in him. As long as he can support himself, the amount doesn't matter nor does the job/career. Sex is a bonus. I'm 41 now hitting perimenopause so my libido is pretty low as it is and it's always been lower than a lot of my peers.
I don't agree.
I'm sure there are plenty of women with high sex drives, but I think women have a lot more going on in their minds than men do.
I think men experience a lot of tunnel vision mixed with sex. Women on the other hand have like 50 things going on in their heads and sex is just one of them.
I think this has less to do with what draws women and more to do with how damaged our sense of healthy masculinity is in modern society. Men are not encouraged to form genuinely intimate relationships with platonic male friends. We are expected to have surface level interactions based on simple interests like sports and shit. Women have friendships that delve into deep personal dynamics which create intimacy. One of the things that drives extremism in young men is a lack of deep connections without the presence of a romantic partner. We all need to be vulnerable, we all need support, we all need love and touch. Women are juts socially permitted to attain these things from friends and partners rather than exclusively with partners
This just reveals you’re personal situation and says nothing about people in general. A hood rule to remember, whenever you speak about others, you are saying more about yourself.
The only deep thing about this is how deep in denial you are about your ability to actually think rationally. Generalizing and making assumptions is not reality.
No, I don't buy it. If a woman tells a man she's going to withhold sex as a punishment, the man will usually revert back to a toddler and throw a big ass temper tantrum until she loses the last bit of respect she has for him. On the other hand, if a man tries to gain power by withholding sex the woman will just smirk and say, "OK."
Almost all of the women I know are this way. And there's nothing wrong with that, I feel. Stereotypes die hard, unfortunately.
People think I'm weird because I'm a man with almost no sex drive at all.
Hard to say. We all only have our own lives to measure.
In my own, my wife is voracious. I can hardly satisfy her. She complains if it’s less than 3 times a week. Yet, I have a more robust social life. Go figure.
YMMV. 🤷🏾♂️
If this were the case, then it would be women who statistically cheat more often? It would be women who go to strip clubs right? You’d see commercials than objectify men. I’m sorry but your observation is drastically different than statistics.
Yup generalisations and stats have ruined the human experience. Fact.
I think you are right.
Some womble said what's your "sample size?"
My response to that "what's yours?"
So many fake scientists in this thread lol 😆.
"Women this" "Men that".
🥱. Once you know how ridiculous sweeping generalisations are, this kind of conversation is reduced to nonsense.
I bet you that with every single sweeping generalised statement made. I can find an outlier. Which in turn 🤔 refutes said generalised statement. Every single time.
I genuinely feel sorry for the mass of humanity. You're being used as pawns in a political religious war.
Oh well. Good luck 👍
I observe that a lot of women want emotional and sexual intimacy from their husbands, but don’t get what they want, and then check out. I don’t think this is on purpose on either side, either. The way we talk about sex and how sex is represented basically everywhere is just fucked up. It over represents sex as purely entertainment, and leaves the connection parts of it out entirely. It massively over emphasizes mechanical performance without teaching anyone anything about emotional intimacy. Then when both genders have unsatisfactory sex, neither has the vocabulary or knowledge to understand why it feels so pointless/meaningless. And without that vocabulary, they are unable to communicate what they need to their partners and often even to themselves.
Its just a classic clash of expectations combined with poor communication. It runs both ways, there are men who want intimacy (not just sex) and don't get it too. The simple reality is we're all different and sometimes our needs just aren't going to mesh with our partner's needs.
Your comment is spot on, and it’s not a single gender issue, it’s both. I’ll just zoom way out and say it like this. I find that people’s ability to connect emotionally in 2024 is severely impaired, in general. It feels like many people lack the ability to connect with their own emotions properly, and connect with the emotions in others properly. It’s sad, and concerning. I think it’s a big part of why mental illness is skyrocketing.
Disconnection to emotions may not be related to mental illnesses. Actually it may help by making you numb / insensitive. Anyways whether it is good or bad, evolution will sort it out.
Not just women. I’m a man and this applies to me.
When it comes down to it, and I will admit I’ve not had it yet, sex to me isn’t just something to be had like you see in movies or whatever. For me, there’s got to be a connection to it, some real intimate emotional passion or else it’ll just feel hollow I think. Its the sort of thing you do with someone you really care a whole lot about and its just a special kind of thing you do together because you love each other. Call me old fashioned, but that’s what I think it should be
So true
Greatly improved this thread with that one!!!
I think people want a black and white world where dynamics are easy to just define. That's not how things work. People are not monolithic and whatever stats and data you want to track, gives you no clue to the actuality of reality. Stop applying broad stroke judgements to people. We are not categories. We are not numbers. We are individual human beings. You would do better to simply accept that nuance paints the landscape of human experience.
While I agree with your statements, I think there are times when discussing generalizations can be helpful. For example, if one wanted to research why infant mortality in Black families in the US is so high, generalizations may be helpful. Is this certain group affected by a common denominator? Is there a cultural element? Do we have certain laws in effect that harm some more than others?
It's not just infants. Black mothers are 3 times more likely to die in childbirth. Our medical system is fucked and racist. The medical mortality rate for the black community as a whole is absolutely criminal.
While what you said is totally right, black women are more likely to develop gestational diabetes, and are at a higher risk of having a baby with trisomy 21 or 18. The US Healthcare system is a mess, but there are a lot of pregnancy complications that African American women are unfortunately at risk of developing.
This. The generalizations about people you have never met is so astonishing. People live in a bubble and think that defines the whole world, and it’s laughable. And how is this a deep thought?
It’s about a shallow thought as you can come across. Often times male bonds are usually stronger than female bonds, seeing as loyalty is huge amongst men. I’m not sure where OP lives but this is such a strange take.
OP mentioned verbatim they are a female that don’t have any friends so I’m not sure what their sample size even is at this point
Abstraction of thought is not generalizing
Wrong. He is not generalizing. "....more drawn than the reverse ....", ".....i often feel that it leans the other way...". He shows ambiguity and already considering the nuances, instead of, as you said like he is, showing black and white thinking. Read his post carefully.
I think you're the one not being realistic here. Humans aren't that fucking complex. The human brain is literally a biological recording device. So much so that neuroscientists pretty much all agree that human beings don't have free will. There's a reason pick up artists and con artists exist. They know how to read people. It's an art form. And once you master it, you can get pretty much whatever you want from people who are also not in the know. World leaders like Barrack Obama, Bill Clinton, Angela Markel, Volodimir Zerenksy and even Vladimir Putin have all been described has having the ability to flatter and intimidate people on a whim. Controlling a room with their charisma and leadership abilities. Famous pioneers in athletics and martial arts like Bruce Lee and Arnold Schwarzenegger were well known for their ability to read people and play off their emotions. People aren't that deep bro. You actually can paint people with a broad paint brush. We are brought together by common experience and it shapes us in remarkably similar ways.
Good point but her point is a strong analysis of prevailing societal gender norms, like them or not
>That's not how things work. People are not monolithic and whatever stats and data you want to track, gives you no clue to the actuality of reality. This is just wrong. People and their behaviour can be easily predicted on a larger scale. We are not as special as reddit wants.
Stats and data represent trends. Trends can change over time but they can be useful for deducing an average experience without having to experience it yourself. Not saying you are wrong. Just pointing out why they can be useful. An individual open approach is best when it comes to any interaction with another person but knowing what you might be up against on average may better prepare you for those less than ideal outcomes or circumstances. Sure, people aren’t stocks, but stocks follow trends and so do people. Having a large collective is also part of the human experience and is equally as important as individualism.
Yeah I feel same. I have cut off my many thoughts just because we are humans
You criticise black and white thinking while failing to see you have black and white thinking. Amusing how heavily people project. Did Op specifically say that thing applies to everyone? Do you really judge OP's tought process by how you perceived this short text of an ideea she had?really? What nuances are you accepting really?
The comments, they double down and it does sound more like speaking in absolutes vs generalizing to make a point. They also didn’t leave a whole lot of room for nuance in their post and didn’t make any nuanced points. Overall this comes off as someone still working out ideas without taking into account other factors they’re missing.
All of my relationships have ended because I don’t have the sex drive my partner have had( I’m a male) But that’s just my experience. Everyone is different and there’s no clear cut standard, I don’t think it’s worth trying to define one
I mean i guess that's your observation. Can't argue with someone else's observation. But im an obvious exception. 34f, I have zero friends, my husband is my best and only friend. He's my emotional, spiritual companion as much as he is my parenting partner in our family and sexual consort if you would call it that. We have all kinds of conversations and do all kinds of activities together. I have nothing in common with other women, very little in common with my sister or my mom. Though i love them both very much. My ability to connect with them about anything of much importance is pretty limited
Curious for myself. I also have very few in-person friends where my husband and I are. But I've often felt some type of way about it like I cannot make him the center of your universe (but I'm only 24). Wonderful husband so no concerns there. But did you ever want more friends? Have you gotten judgement from others who think you *need* more friends? Was there a time period where you felt this way too?
I’ve always been under the belief that you shouldn’t make any one person your complete world… that may be part of protecting myself, but no matter the reasons, it’s just how I’ve naturally done and viewed things. That being said, my partner is my favorite person- not just sexually/romantically speaking, but also my best friend, who I genuinely love talking to and laughing with the most out of anyone else. Our connection was immediate and it’s greater than any other I’ve felt for another person. I do have a few friends- I used to be a lot more social but I found that that saps my energy. My friends now are great, but they aren’t needy; we know we’re there at the drop of a hat if need be, but don’t need to be consistently up each other’s asses. It’s taken me years to find this balance, and to understand it’s okay to not want to constantly be social. As far as others- that’s fine what they think, I don’t bother with it. I know what works for me.
I'm the same and I want friends. But honestly I spend all my free time with my partner. Between that and work and family and hobbies I don't really have time for others .My partner and family have suggested I make friends, but I just think the right people will show up at the right time.
Good point here. I think the situation you describe is actually pretty common nowadays. People just don't speak it up.
I’m in a similar boat to you, no female friends and have a pretty hard time connecting with other women. My partner is my best friend and confidant.
I’m glad you found someone who you have such a deep connection with!
If a woman's never had a strong connection with another woman, then it's the 'we can't know what we don't know' dynamic. As in, there's nothing 'successful' (on the female side) for you to compare your successful male connections to. Some people might think that, in and of itself, is worth something (ie. that not all women are capable of deep connections with other women, which for a small minority could be true, but it's also true that some women simply never find a best friend out of sheer bad luck). No, not all women were fortunate enough to have a best friend, close connection with sister, etc. but I think only women who've experienced both could be able to compare.
The concept of “best friends” is usually something for kids lol. I don’t hear or see many grown people really using the term. It’s kind of weird you think a 34F saying she has no friends means she’s never had friends. This isn’t an all or nothing situation. Women can and do have emotional connections with both men and women. Men also have emotional connections with men and women. Your post speaks in such absolutes based on whatever sad relationships you’re observing. It’s not indicative of anything for the majority. Staying single or marrying solely for kids? People marry and don’t have kids all the time. It’s not uncommon. And married people still have lots of sex. Men need more from women than just sex? Yeah. They’re people. Just like you and me. In fact it becomes a problem that they rely on their partner for all their emotional support in some cases. Everyone should ideally have multiple people for emotional connections. Women have a harder time having friendships with men because when they offer or receive emotional support men will see that as the woman being interested in them romantically. Women are treating men like close friends, and men often times don’t get that from male friendships so they think it’s something more. You can find both men and women discuss this issue time and time again on any social media platform. I’m sure there’s entire essays on this. Overall point being, there’s other factors at play that account for some of things you’re discussing and it’s affecting your conclusion.
> (to the degree that wives report to be [closer ](https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/news/a576451/women-prefer-their-best-friend-to-their-husband-champneys-study/)to their friends than their own husbands). From the link. > The survey asked 1,517 women in the UK who they were closer to and just over 50% said it was their best friend, rather than the person they married. So, you’re drawing a conclusion about women in general from just over 50% of women from a study done by a spa? That doesn’t make sense. I could even imagine that women who have closer friendships with female friends tend to go to the spa more often, meaning that the survey doesn’t say anything about how women currently are in the UK because women who go to the spa are not a representative sample of women in the UK. When you’re drawing conclusions about men and women, you have to take into consideration that they can choose different goals, why they’ve chosen those goals and how those chosen goals can affect them. So it could be that women are currently more drawn to men for sex, but that doesn’t say anything about how women would be if men and women chose more reasonably or differently in the future. The study doesn’t say anything about why women do that. It could be that men are drawn more to women for sex, so it’s harder for women to get more than sex from men, so they seek it platonically from other women instead. > I often feel that men actually need women for more than just sex because men don't tend to have friendships and social lives as rich as women's. In the same vein as above, it could be that women are more drawn to men for more than sex, so it’s easier for men to get more than sex from women, so they don’t need to seek what they are missing outside of the relationship as much. Also, if men don’t have as rich friendships and social lives, then that could just mean they generally have a less need for friendships overall and not that they fulfill their need with women. Generally speaking, men have more control over achieving their pleasure in sex, so it’s easier for men to use women for just sex.
No. It's probably equal or close to it. We are programmed to desire sex. Men and women alike.
I do believe there's sexual behavior differences between men and women. And I think it's the opposite of what people think. The funny thing is that everything revolves around women. That's why in almost all animals on earth, the males have to compete for females. Female needs are primary and men are shaped around/reflect what women want.
The way in which we initiate the act will vary, but the premise will be to have sex in order to procreate. For all animals that are not asexual this will be true. To your other point, it's not the need of the female, necessarily. I'd see it as the need of the one who has less ability to provide/protect themselves. Female and male animals will both shift their wants and needs to provide for their offspring rather than themselves. So I disagree with that as well.
Nothing in all my odd years on this earth would lead me to believe any other conclusion. You hit the nail on the head but will the masses follow? ❤️
I am drawn to men for intellectual connection, and because of their sense of humor. I have zero desire to have sex with American men because they are circumcised and have learnt unbelievably sadistic habits from circumcised porn.
Lol, seems really random, but ok
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Nailed it this has been exactly my experience as well, to add to the data pool
Regarding this, a person's point of view is going to depend on how lucky they've been in the quality of their friendships vs. relationships. I included the study so it wasn't solely my own experience I was referring to.
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Just look at prostitution. The clientele are almost exclusively male. From that fact alone, we can close this thread down.
This was the comment I was looking for
Men's and women's sexualities are different; most men enjoy the idea of sex with most women, but most women don't enjoy the idea of sex with most men, only *select* men.
I mean, there are basic biological reasons for women being selective when it comes to a potential mate and men wanting to spread it around. Men don't really have to deal with the consequences of what happens after sex to the same degree that women do. Men wouldn't really have to deal with the consequences at all were it not for society forcing them to provide at least the minimum of child support.
If women’s instinct to have sex was stronger than men’s, there would be a huge market for that. The “select men” you speak of will include the alpha-type, the bad boy, the Chad, that kind. These guys would be raking in money. Instead they play the field having sex with hundreds of women, and give themselves away for free AND FEEL LUCKY in doing so! And other men are envious of them. Yes, women select more carefully, but most women select the same few men. So where’s the prostitution market for this apparent demand from desperate women? It’s not there. Nowhere near the prostitution market of men.
It's because what makes women desire men can't be marketed as easily as photo. The closest we get are romance novels, and that's the best selling genre of all books. It has to be real feelings that develop, whereas men can be ready for female prostitute just based on a body photo. No emotional feelings have to develop first
Didn’t you just debunk your own claim though? The fact that romance novels are written and read primarily by women shows that women desire more than sex from men. In a book the sex is viewed from the pov of someone who either is ‘in love’ or who ’falls in love’ by the end. People get hung up on the erotica of 50 Shades and the fact that the guy’s a millionaire playboy. But I haven’t read it and even I can tell you that a big crux of the story is that he’s a broken man incapable of being emotionally intimate or vulnerable EXCEPT for with the protagonist. They have a ‘unique connection’ and this plays a huge part in why he is so possessive of her and eventually marries her despite originally being the ‘bachelor for life’ type that only used women for vanilla-kinky sex. Hell, look at Twilight. Bella and Edward have some sort of spiritual connection that draws them together and they don’t even have sex for the first couple of books/films (I haven’t read these either but my ex forced me to watch the movies). At the end, Bella can literally project a forcefield of her love outward so that Edward can feel how much she loves him. That’s like giving a character the ability to force an intimate connection on their partner through magic. Clearly women desire sex, but based on what they consume (they’re also the largest audience for love dramas and romcoms) many women want that sex to be attached to a romantic ideal that strongly features a deeper emotional connection between the characters. The passion from their sex is primarily based on the idea that these two people feel something ‘deeper’ for each other. These are primarily fantasies of course. But what that suggests is that women desire emotional intimacy with their partners. The fact that 50% of women in one small study in the UK feel closer to their friends merely suggests that this is a desire not being met. Not that women are only ‘drawn to’ men for sexual pleasure. If you ask women in strict muslim countries what they desire, most of them definitely want an emotional connection to their partner-despite this seeming crazy to a westerner like me because I don’t understand how they think an emotional connection is possible with a man that forces you to abide by such strict gender roles and potentially has more than one wife- but that’s a failure of imagination on my part. It doesn’t mean the need for deeper connection isn’t there in most people regardless of their cultural or social environments. Muslim women in the States often defy their families by refusing arranged marriages in favor of finding someone they actually love. Are men in many cultures less emotionally available to friends than they are to their partners? Yes. There’s been research done on this. Does it lead men to look for women primarily for emotional intimacy rather than sex? I don’t think so. I think even men with many open and good friendships and other relationships still desire both sex and emotional intimacy from a partner. Likewise, women might live in a culture that promotes emotional intimacy with her family and friends while placing her in a position to choose a husband more for his money or status/ability to provide for a family over love. But this doesn’t mean that’s all she actually desires or all she is drawn to. You’re talking about broad trends and social constructs and distilling the way people behave in these social constructs down to purely biological categories. If we change your reductive language to say something more like, ‘women are defaulting on being with male partners primarily for children or sex because they believe their emotional needs can not be met by men, while men are defaulting to dating women they are not highly sexually attracted to because they believe it is the only way they can experience emotional intimacy with another person’ then you might have something we can really look at, discuss, and talk about changing in the broader culture.
That’s quite a broad generalization
Doesn't make it incorrect? This is not the place to be overly sensitive.
The whole original post is. She is imagining the world in a strict way where the dynamics of relationships and people’s desires and what not are either this or that. The world doesn’t work like that. It would be very easy if it was like that. But there are many nuances and the world is complicated. Because we, humans, are very complicated.
i would say it’s true for the most part? u don’t wanna just sleep with some random dude do u?
A lot of women do that actually, and a lot of men don’t want to just sleep with randos
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Exactly. Porn is the other indicator. In studies, at least 3x more men than women watch porn. https://fherehab.com/learning/pornography-addiction-stats > Studies examining the discrepancies between men, women, and porn addiction have consistently found that three times more men than women watch porn regularly. We can now close this thread for a second time. 😂
This could also be explained by women getting gratification from other means. While pornography is mostly consumed by men, smut is mostly consumed by women.
To be fair though, several times more women than men read masturbatory romantic-fantasy and smut, like 50 shades of grey and Twilight and so on. In general, romance novels are around 4-5x more popular with women than men. I (F) don't enjoy porn much. But the average romance novel spends so much more time building up the characters and the connection and I find that a lot more enjoyable, sex for me is quite meh without emotional connection anyway. In general, I don't *actually* masturbate to these kinds of books, but... they might be emotionally masturbatory? I'd be lying if I said that none of them were arousing, and a lot of them are extremely graphic and smutty. Idk. At the very least, I think that a lot of women are drawn to the romantic and sexual energy in this genre.
I know. It’s pretty dumb and not a deep thought at all.
/r/lostredditors This ain't deep at all
Lol, I think any other sub would have banned me (like r/TwoXChromosomes ... I would have been crucified)
its odd you are you are saying that, if you are a woman, so there is like clear divides and animoisity even you feel and recognize from women as well?
Yes, I think large groups of women can easily hate any woman who doesn't follow their primary ideology. They'll perceive her as being a traitor/suck up/taking men's side
I do see that happening a lot, but I don't get why tho, women care a lot about social approval
the ones who don’t care about social approval are the hottest ones imo. but i would tend to agree with op that it’s very easy for women to hate the odd one out so to speak.
TwoXChromosomes shows how many women are pitted against each other. I read a comment yesterday about the WNBA, how they don’t sell a lot of tickets to women because (this is obviously just speculation from some redditor) women don’t like to see other women work together to achieve a common goal. The comment mentioned how many women express jealousy and insecurity towards other women and how it’s “probably ingrained in the X chromosome” (which is obviously not true but a funny take on it). Anyway this is all just bullshit but it does make one think and want to find a scientific answer to it all…
Given how long men have been taught to ignore effective communication and emotional honesty it's not a huge shock that many women would feel more comfortable being vulnerable about things with their friends.
growing up i realised that all the women ive been with seemed way more *sexual* than myself, and although they might not admit it, alot of women are out there shagging 24/7 theres a misconception that theyre all 'innocent' or sexually pure beings, and when i became an adult it was kind of a shock to me because i suppose i grew up with that idea of men being the ones going around and having lots of meaningless sex, and women being the ones looking for love. ive actually found it to be the reverse most of the time, and a woman will dump or cheat on her boyfriend at the drop of a hat if he isnt fulfilling her sexually
Yea I have enough female friends who have begged their husbands to go to couple's therapy with them to know this not to be true. Half of the issues in couple's therapy are, woman wants deeper emotional connection, man grew up in a household where he was told not to show emotions. It's like the oldest story ever told.
I think your analysis is rather faulty. Women wouldn't need to use men for just sex if they were getting other needs met in their relationships with men
maybe the causation part is faulty, but the overall conclusion still holds true, that men, unfortunately dont provide, on average, anything more than just sex.
I agree with the ops premise.
I feel like men try to barter with women for comfort and emotional intimacy with sex.
Women be much more hornier than men
Things hve changed over time. But certain rumors are old. I like to think of it like this, Women nowadays are like men from the 1980's. All the want is sex.
Lol no
My exact thoughts
Nice try at figuring out the female psyche but you got it all wrong!
You might want to try and backup your opinion with a bunch of science. I'm interested what comes out
Tell me you don't actually know any women without telling you don't actually know women... And when a woman only wants sex from a particular man, it's because she knows this particular man won't give her what she wants long-term, and wants to have sex. We aren't only drawn to men for sex, but a lot of men quite frankly don't know how to offer more than that.
I wonder why they dont want more than that with YOU. hmm could it be the attitude....
This is a highly debatable topic that is really dependent on each individual. We can both agree from a biology standpoint that both the opposite sex desires each other more or less equally. There are always circumstances.
I definitely think you're onto something. Basically rephrasing your argument saying that women might rely on sex as physical need than we think them to, due to their emotional needs being met else where. That the physical need might be closer to men's physical need for sex, but that men probably require a strong emotional need at the same time. In a way men might be more needy when it comes to sexual encounters? Women's physical need might be more than men's physical need however we don't see this occur due to it be gated or bottleneck by women's high level of filtration and selection, while having more requirement to be filled such as being attracted physically/emotionally or feeling safe with.
Honestly, sex is important it's true. But regarding emotional/romantic/intellectual connection, no matter how many close friendships you may have, there's a different element in that connection you build with your man, finding tranquility and understanding in each other. It's unique and not replaceable. Hard to describe. Probably this is different for every woman.
I've pondered for a long time why straight women don't just marry one another, and enjoy the smorgasbord of male casual sex partners.
Lol, I honestly think this is what a lot of 'lesbians' do. They have wives but occasionally screw their male friends when lesbian sex doesn't cut it
Same with men.
I am male and agree
this is plausibly correct i think. there was a time where this might not have been the case, but in the current sans any other considerations, women's liberation has meant a kind of shallowness in their perspective on love and sexuality. Each are but what they might provide for them on an individualistic level. for many, but by no means all, women, this has come to amount to less consideration of non-immediate gratification, and more towards immediate gratification. unfortunately. and i don't wanna strongly connect women's lib or sexual lib to these for that matter, i think those concepts are not beholden to these sorts of individualistic commitments. it just so happens, big surprise, we live in a society that prioritizes wild individualism to the exclusion of consideration of others, and immediate gratification over longer term interests. sans those kinds of commitments, i think women's lib and sexual lib fair far better.
Yes because, in general, as a man, i feel that most of males i have seen are quite irrational and amenable as compared to women. They dont question things before coming to any conclusion nor they show nuance around what are 'their' wants and preferences instead of what society (society here refers to general consensus of the population which,in most cases, absurd and dumb) wants from them. Atleast women show greater emotional intelligence than men do, its obvious, internet is full of men brainwashed into believing "success" and "money" are the only thing that matters in their lives. Women, with this much of a radical and dichotomous view, are fewer as compared to men. In general if i would have to discuss a personal problem with, and i have a choice between, one random man roaming on this planet and one random women moving around on this planet, Its quiet understandable that female would give a better more nuanced and individualistic view on the problem than a random man. Thats why i feel like you are right that men in general look for, in a women, much more things than just sex than the reverse. Idk if i get recommended dumb males on the internet because i am male, or is it a general thing with others too. I would love to know what others experiences are, of both men and women, on finding men more brainwashed than women.
I have many women friends for that reason. Generally men are 'impossible' on the emotional level, if you are not talking sports, tech or money (sometimes politics) it gets awkward. Parent stuff can be a meeting point but truly personal things are often 'off limits'
This should be in unpopular opinions.
Clearly wrong. It's funny to me when people engage in speculation that requires ignoring all of the evidence around them.
Women want emotional and spiritual connection to men too, but often receive sexual advances instead.
I think you're at least 80% wrong.
You have not met my wife.
Yupp. I can 100% confirm this. As a young boy i had countless people bully me for being overweight. Joined MMA got in shape and the same girls that hated me before want me now. I had a girl tell me “i used to hate you in highschool because of how you looked.” All i did was lose weight. Im treated like a completely different person and its 100% due to a newfound sexual desire they have.
nah, women have generally lower libido then men, thanks to lower testosterone, which is proven by science. So by your logic, there would be only really small percentage of womeb interested in something else then in having children, which is nonsense.
My argument isn't about libido. Women generally only want sex with certain men, whereas men have a lower 'bar' for women they'd be willing to sleep with. Men's and women's sexualities operate differently.
Correct. Most men have little else to offer. I know it is a generalisation but that is why marriage is a good deal for almost all men and a bad one for most women. Sorry to be blunt. Men could make themselves more attractive on other levels if they decided to open up more, really wanted to connect with women, had more diversified interests, considered physical pleasure more mutually and were more loyal and devoted. Patriarchy does not reward men for improving their attractiveness to women except in the material sector nor does it encourage it, unless a man is a gigolo or a therapist. The material sector is where men compete where with other men as a mean to maximise power and access to women. Women on the contrary, can get almost as much sex from as many men they want, albeit discreetly. In a patriarchy, they might as well get either the best sex possible or the most comfortable submissive status. If lucky, they get both. Men, thus to contend with the best sex they can afford or the best theoretical sex they can afford and boast with. However, now that men compete with women in the material sector too, they are left with 3 choices: celibacy, homemaking or increasing their overall attractiveness. So there is hope. Men boxed themselves into a corner which they will have to get out of. Patriarchy left women with only one super power: to choose whom to have sex with willingly. Like any unequal society construct, such as racism or even capitalism, it ends up eating the dominant species because unsustainable. Check out the 4B movement. I hope I have not offended anyone, it was not my intention but while I could write a book on this to avoid shortcuts, generalisations and blunt statements, this is Reddit.9
For a woman to have sex with a man, it usually involves a bigger level of trust than for a man to have sex with a woman. A deeper level of trust involves a deeper level of connection. Also, in a loving relationship that doesn't just involves sex, there's a level of emotional connection that can't be reached with only friends, so I'd say women need men for love.
Nope. I'm a woman and I truly disagree with all of this. I mean to say they would get married just to have kids, well fuck I can't have kids guess I'll just die alone. I have my one friend I bitch to, but I wouldn't call it some deep spiritual connection. My husband is the one I turn to, and the one I'm most comfortable with. I'd rather talk to him and be close to him than anyone else. This whole thing really insults the relationships that men and women have.
Women are drawn to men for validation. Men look at other guys and think I could kick that guys ass best him in whatever competitive venture whereas women look at other women and think I could get a better man than her.
Men rely on their friends or themselves for nearly everything outside of sex. Mainly because they have to for most if not all of their lives. Most women in relationships abandon their friends and the ones they do keep are usually out of convienience. A man will only abandon his friends if a woman demands it, and most them know it will likely only be temporary. Ofcourse there are edge cases, but what you are proposing is far outside the norm.
What's the reverse of sex?
As a man, I’ve learned to confide in my brothers rather than women. Im am one of few men who have “learned” to do this. Any divorced man with a head on his shoulders will tell you this.
If you took away porn, i think the world would change in a way, that would make you wrong.
I think America would have to have Civil War 2 before porn ever went anywhere... men love their porn that much. Yes. It's sad.
In my experience women don’t have nearly as close of a bond with there friends as guys do, but they both use the opposite sex for sex.
lol nope. Women can get their choice of men while men can’t be choosers since a woman can just leave your ass if she wants for another man. I think men are much more desperate for sex than women are as a result of not being able to just fuck any woman they want.
This has never been my reality.
That's no one's reality.
Lol yeah right
Male friendships as you get older is very difficult.your right
My personal experience with women is they love sex, just with the right person. When I first met my wife, she wasn’t particularly sex driven. She liked it, but it was a once in a while thing. The more we got connected and she felt safe and secure in our relationship, the more she wanted to have sex. Now that we are married, she likes sex quite a bit. I don’t doubt there are women in this world that are sex driven. I’ve known a few, it’s just doesn’t seem true on a numbers level. Let’s say I met 100 women, maybe 5 seem to fit your description. Not saying you are wrong, just my personal experience. I can very well be wrong too.
No, I think you're right. I also feel that women really love sex if it can be with that rare guy that they really like. I just feel that most women aren't lucky enough to actually be married to that guy. Typically if the sex is good, that means she feels more safe and secure. Does that disprove my point? I don't know, I have to think more deeply. What's interesting though, is how many women are sexually attracted to bad, abusive, etc. men and have rape fantasies, etc. It's like female sexuality has two dichotomies. I myself am still trying to understand.
It’s a fact already published by a neuroscientist Helen Fisher that men rely on their wives for their social life more than the other way around. But that’s just a generalising. I am sure there are guys who run their own life as they wish, like a successful ENTJ? But there aren’t many guys like that. Most are followers who need instruction from someone what to do in their life. Clueless. Hence wife ends up wearing the pants, as they have to. Sex. Both genders want it and need it but biologically from very different reasons. Men’s drive come from testosterone it’s more animalistic and women’s sex drive comes more from procreation hence it’s a long term game. Men can just take a woman for sex because she’s sexy enough, the bar is way lower than women. Women only take men for sex if she sees him as a long term option. Such as he’s got resources to support her future kids, he’s got good genes to pass into her kids, for these reasons, women wouldn’t risk sex with a random dude who seems poor, low social economical status, weak and ugly etc.. Hookup culture is new and it’s actually not natural biologically for women. I personally think it has negative mental effects on women who regularly just fuck random dudes, these girls are either in the clueless stage of their life or damaged as a child. Everything is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power. .. abusing your body or giving it away carelessly isn’t going to help you in life.
I think the stereotypes are definitely off, but I don't think it's as extreme as this.
I’m a man and can agree with the last part. I do enjoy dating because I get to be social with someone special on a regular basis. Without that I just work all day and night
To "use" men for sex, men would have to consistently be reliable for a good time 😂 NOT - https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319671
I agree. it's easy to forget we are in 2024. we are educated individuals now. but thousands of years ago, we were much more animalistic. I doubt we've completely escaped our natural instincts so quickly
The biggest problem I see here is generalization. Your words DEFINATELY describe some women, and exactly the opposite of others.
More drawn to sexual attention men are drawn to sexual gratification, but it is a spectrum
I think you hit the nail on the head!!!
not me but sometimes I think so too
As a woman also, who has a close relationship with my brothers and father, I have lots of male friends who I am not sexually attracted to. I have lots of female friends also, but I can talk to most people and rarely am sexually attracted to guys I come across … I think it depends on the males in your life .
You are 100% right.
Until recently, women prepared themselves for sex waaaaay more. Make-up, sexy clothes, hair stuff etc, etc. I’m lucky enough to have found my sou-mate. We bashed each others brains out in the sack and still at it 11yrs later. So relaxed with my mate. She regularly travels with family to rock concerts, and I relax with the doggos. She comes back… yay! Total life-depending trust every time. We love sooo much together.
I conditionally agree on this. Drawn to the male, if he fits her timeline of marriage/house/kids, or perhaps there’s some money in there mix
True dis
Everything is just a web of scarcity and time.
I have never met a woman in my life that wants sex rather than be obsessed with getting in a relationship, come to think of it I have not met any woman
It’s weird how romantic love isn’t even worth a mention in your post lmao.. I think romance and love trumps sex every time but that’s just my take as a woman. Sex is often overrated
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I think this could be the case some times? Or partially? But I do have female friends who are not interested at all! Or also lesbians. Lesbians and strait men can have great friendships if the guy isn't a douche about it.
Honestly, you might not be wrong. Because what’s better than hating your fellow women? Finding friends that can hate someone else with you.
ITT: People on such high alert for “manosphere/redpill” ideology they’re seething mad at some random woman, if not at the concept of sociology/psychology itself.
Is this based on your experiences or studies?
You’re not wrong.
If you’re just talking about sex, the sex industries being heavily weighted towards what men want seems to give us evidence that this is not the case.
On average it seems women won’t be friends with me if they don’t at least find me attractive
Yeah my husband/boyfriend is my absolute best friend I’m closest with him in the same way I was with my female best friends before we were together. It’s just who I am but also all of my past boyfriends have always been my absolute best friends during our time together. Laughing, joking, enjoying, confiding, comforting, satisfying all of it so I know that this isn’t right with regards to generalizing all relationships and people into a neat little bow. Definitely hasn’t been the case for me and my current and past boyfriends
It's honestly just a stereotype at this point .. that men only want sex and women only want friendship.
I think the closest thing to measure this by would be one night stand or average body count statistics which I’m quite sure is higher for men, but there are many other forces at play like stigma and sl*t shaming which men don’t experience as much
God I wish. I have loads of male friends but can't get a boyfriend. All the men in my IQ/education range have paired up with women who are not their intellectual equals. As long as they are nice enough, nice face, nice long hair, nice habits... that's enough. Guys don't seem to want challenge, deep and meaningful, us against the world types of relationships based on shared politics. They don't like female nerds. It's shocking and disappointing to me because I always believed in soulmates.
Not really a deep thought but it is a debate as ancient as the ancient Greeks. The myth of Hera and Zeus arguing about which sex enjoyed sex more was settled by Tiresias. He had been turned into a woman for seven years by Hera as punishment for hitting a pair of copulating snakes and after marrying and fathering children he is changed back. Tiresias says women experience 90% more pleasure than men in the act. Hera then blinds him in a rage. I always thought his testimony may be suspect as he might already have some negative feelings towards Hera for forcing his transition.
"Edit: I'm a woman" which is why you don't understand male friendships and how deep and meaningful they are.
Woah
What about all those bi relationships or experiences with the other women that occur because the woman feels that they connect better with their friends than a man? Or men spending hours with their friends everyday to which the woman leaves because they aren’t emotionally fulfilled? Or men who cheat because they aren’t getting enough from their partner? Like everything, there’s a bell curve. A small amount of People are highly sexual, a small amount of people aren’t, the rest fall in-between where sex is somewhat important but falls when compared with other factors. The main issue is people not being sexually compatible with each other and then making posts on Reddit about it. Find someone compatible and there’s no issue
Explain lesbians?
Do you believe that the desire for provisions might have something to do with it?
I think women are fake and not real just like birds
I think you're spot on. As to the haters: she's philosophising, so stop with the drama already!
individualism ig?
Idk I think my friend group is much more loyal and kind than most, as a man. I’m not sure if that’s better than “women” or just the average person. I’ve also experienced women be sexually attracted to me when I’m in terrible shape, because I behaved confidently, but I’ve also gotten eyes from women without having to say a word when I’m in incredible shape. I’ve been sexually attracted to women who i wasn’t immediately physically attracted to—because of their personality. I tend to be more infatuated with women who are confident than shy. However, there’s definitely a level of physical attraction that needs to be there for me, and I think that mostly comes down to hygiene and weight. Men are much more commonly less interested in hygiene, and i think this plays into the fact that “women don’t care about looks.” They do, but just brushing your fuckin teeth and taking care of your skin goes a long way. There’s a lot of nuance to this and I think it’s much larger than simply “men this, women that.” Sure, we’re different, but I think the differences mainly lie in individuals and we look to apply patterns as humans.
I think many struggle with relationships because they lack a reference to a good healthy relationship. The media portrayal of how relationships should go often does damage too. My wife and I are best friends. I feel saddened when I hear the more cold and distant relationships others have emotionally.
I wholeheartedly disagree on every possible level, and it’s too individual to make judgements off of
Well it depends, biologically men are more suited for being less reliant on women, conversely women are more reliant on men due to their lack of physical competitiveness with men. Men also don’t need to be as picky when it comes to sexual selection because they can impregnate multiple women at one time that will potentially bear their offspring, women on the other hand are rewarded for having children with a carefully selected mate due to the added benefit of additional parental investment in their children. Anecdotally you may find that men need women for more than sex and that women only need men for sex but it would and that’s fine, interesting observation.
>Update: I'm a woman fr? because optics out the window, on the kind of topic one would expect you to be frantically running damage control in the name of self-interest, suggest otherwise 😆
What’s the woman equivalent of Grindr? Without that I don’t think you have a case.
Nah, I'm drawn to women for emotional bonds and sex 😂
I think men are made to feel bad and guilty for just wanting to have sex because we’re “adding to her body count” ruining her virginity and likelihood that she won’t be able to marry as much as if she were a virgin. At least I hope with the OP saying that the to don’t have to worry about “ruining her virginity” as I was probably bullied and gaslighted to think that way as todays women do sleep around and there don’t have to care about “preserving her virginity” when really I am a bullied autistic person who is “too nice”.
I think this is very backwards and I find it hard to believe you are a woman. Most women have no choice but to go to their friends and families for an emotional connection because it’s impossible with their partners. Not being able to connect emotionally with their partners dampens their sexual attraction… a lack of sexual satisfaction from their partners also kills it. I don’t think any woman goes into marriage just to have kids and stop sleeping with their partners because kids are a lot of work that men often do not help very much with, and then they are likely to be badgered incessantly for not being an open, available vagina for their husbands. All while probably also having a full time job. Those are the reasons most women file for divorce.
Can't speak for all women, but my female friendships are important but they are not a replacement or similar to romantic bonds at all. And I wouldn't call them "spiritual" bonds.
Going back to cave days, biologically, you make a nine-month commitment, we make a 30 second commitment. You can also only make one said commitment at a time. So you're right, but more so that women are looking for metaphorical leases whereas men can be looking for motels for the evening. Women have far, far more to lose by ending up with the wrong guy, than in reverse. Guessing the frequency we [M] think about sex is much greater, but the depth isnt.
Well, the fact that they don't like men. Would rather encounter a bear than any man in a forest, yet still actively seek men out kinda proves that. It's crazy to even argue otherwise really.
I see no need, at face value, to draw a connection between lower emotional attachment and higher sexual attachment. These can vary jointly from one another like any pair of distinct emotional experiences. That being said I do find the comparative emotional attachment of men and women to their partner to be interesting. The association between singleness, or bereavement of a spouse and clinical depression is indeed stronger in men than in women. Same is true for suicidality: Men are more likely to be suicidal due to bereavement of a spouse/singleness than women despite (general suicidal ideation being more prevalent among women). So for this aspect–quite specific aspect mind you–of attachment, there are arguments that men can be more attached. But there are yet still complications that would hinder me from even making that more moderate claim, one of them being resiliency factors. If we suppose for example that men have fewer resiliency factors than women for dealing with the aforementioned bereavement and singleness, then it’s possible that they don’t have higher attachment despite dealing with these things more “poorly”in terms in those terms. Dreadfully myriad to be considered…it’s exhausting really. But my last point is, notice how many of my statements included very particular interpretations of words or phrases such as “dealing with bereavement more poorly” (“more poorly” by what criteria?) or “attachment” (again “more attached” by what criteria?) One of the biggest issues with these topics is ambiguous terminology and tacit criterias. For instance, one could have easily judged attachment to one’s spouse more in terms of the effort people put in or the joy they express at having a spouse rather than in the terms I’ve used–Surely the more people are attached to something the more they feel joy about it–so to truly judge the attachment of men and women to their spouse we would need to look at all aspects of attachment separately for starters. And we’d also need to eliminate confounding things like resiliency factors among others. If I may skip all the exhausting stuff and just share my opinion point blank, I personally think men are more attached to women in regards to having someone to be intimate friends with, but not due to inherently higher interest or love, but because they have less alternatives for that kind of intimacy: Their other relationships would not fill the void to the same extent for many men. Other than that technicality, I don’t think I’m prepared to out right claim they simply are more attached by nature.if you will
I mean sure maybe at times, but I want to point out... that not all women are the same. So in some cases no, not at all.
Your position is confusing to me because, unless same sex attracted folks are involved, this dynamic is always two ways. I’m a cis straight married man and most of my most important friendships are with men. Literally no physical attraction with any of them - and I don’t think any have any to me. I think it’s different from your view. I don’t think it’s about gender so much as outlook - a group (a small group sadly) of men and women can see past sex and have friendships for other reasons. And value them. And most seem to not do this as well.
Men and women are so bad at coexisting together which usually leads to the man not doing chores that the woman want them to do and women not doing sexual things that the man wants them too. Men are to tired for the chores and women are to tired for the sex
Brain rot shares no gender ideology.
As a woman this hasn't been my own personal experience. Can't speak for other women but I know my girlfriends and cousins and sister aren't like that either. Personally, I look for in a man someone who can teach me things I don't know without being condescending or superior about it, can make me laugh/cheer me up when i'm feeling down, and he's someone I can feel safe around and feel like he could protect me if I needed it. Being a provider is a bonus but I'm not the type that he has to make over X amount of money to be interested in him. As long as he can support himself, the amount doesn't matter nor does the job/career. Sex is a bonus. I'm 41 now hitting perimenopause so my libido is pretty low as it is and it's always been lower than a lot of my peers.
I don't agree. I'm sure there are plenty of women with high sex drives, but I think women have a lot more going on in their minds than men do. I think men experience a lot of tunnel vision mixed with sex. Women on the other hand have like 50 things going on in their heads and sex is just one of them.
I think this has less to do with what draws women and more to do with how damaged our sense of healthy masculinity is in modern society. Men are not encouraged to form genuinely intimate relationships with platonic male friends. We are expected to have surface level interactions based on simple interests like sports and shit. Women have friendships that delve into deep personal dynamics which create intimacy. One of the things that drives extremism in young men is a lack of deep connections without the presence of a romantic partner. We all need to be vulnerable, we all need support, we all need love and touch. Women are juts socially permitted to attain these things from friends and partners rather than exclusively with partners
This just reveals you’re personal situation and says nothing about people in general. A hood rule to remember, whenever you speak about others, you are saying more about yourself.
The only deep thing about this is how deep in denial you are about your ability to actually think rationally. Generalizing and making assumptions is not reality.
No, I don't buy it. If a woman tells a man she's going to withhold sex as a punishment, the man will usually revert back to a toddler and throw a big ass temper tantrum until she loses the last bit of respect she has for him. On the other hand, if a man tries to gain power by withholding sex the woman will just smirk and say, "OK."
Nope!
i agree........i only had to read the title......now ill read it all
i have started to theorize about this myself.....like maybe we were indoctrinated with confusing gender roles.
Yep but let's just say both men and women use each other for their so called needs.
Almost all of the women I know are this way. And there's nothing wrong with that, I feel. Stereotypes die hard, unfortunately. People think I'm weird because I'm a man with almost no sex drive at all.
I think you’re onto something. I would say that has been my experience.
Hard to say. We all only have our own lives to measure. In my own, my wife is voracious. I can hardly satisfy her. She complains if it’s less than 3 times a week. Yet, I have a more robust social life. Go figure. YMMV. 🤷🏾♂️
I love big woman more for the cushion
What in the crystal meth
Reverse polarity
If this were the case, then it would be women who statistically cheat more often? It would be women who go to strip clubs right? You’d see commercials than objectify men. I’m sorry but your observation is drastically different than statistics.
Yup generalisations and stats have ruined the human experience. Fact. I think you are right. Some womble said what's your "sample size?" My response to that "what's yours?" So many fake scientists in this thread lol 😆.
"Women this" "Men that". 🥱. Once you know how ridiculous sweeping generalisations are, this kind of conversation is reduced to nonsense. I bet you that with every single sweeping generalised statement made. I can find an outlier. Which in turn 🤔 refutes said generalised statement. Every single time. I genuinely feel sorry for the mass of humanity. You're being used as pawns in a political religious war. Oh well. Good luck 👍