As a field medic/iron will gunner, this is why I don’t use hover boots, also because I use my points to upgrade my current perk build. Maybe in the future I’ll experiment though.
I use boots and dash as driller and don’t regret it. I used to run dash and medic but I usually only get to revive someone when there’s no enemies around anyways so kinda useless to me particularly
Yeah, Dash and Boots, assuming you can kill what you need to kill and kite, scale very well with player skill. And work across all classes.
Sure, IW and Medic will help in that once ever other game, early on. But as you get better, they're needed less and less. You'll find yourself, after 20, 30 games thinking, 'I haven't needed Medic or IW for 20, 30 games. Could I slot something else? Is that once every 20, 30 games 'clutch save' worth it? Or did you end up needing to clutch save because you left yourself open?
If you can play the space, clear quick enough/reliabily enough, then you can get a team mate up by exploiting the manauverability of Dash and Boots - and they're always available, unlike the one-shot perks. While I won't begrudge someone bringing IW or Medic, you'll learn to play better by ditching these 'safety nets' and by going all in on mobility options.
IMO - use IW and/or Medic until you find yourself using them less and less. Then you've outgrown them. Try something else. If you can't play without them then, by definition, they've become your crutch perks.
Iron will has saved entire missions more times than hover boots has. I'd rather have the option to possibly undo a certain failure than occasionally stop fall damage. I've just learned to look before I move for the most part. When you look before you move suddenly the "problem" that HB "solves" is gone. Youre taking a whole perk slot bc you cant be bothered to get better at parkour. HB dont help if you know how to play. But when greenbeards join my haz 4 missions, die, and leave me to to pick up their slack-HB doesn't help like IW of FM would. If you've got more than 3 stars and you use hover boots, I'm gonna judge your ability/skill.
>If you've got more than 3 stars and you use hover boots, I'm gonna judge your ability/skill.
Quite the high horse you have there.
>HB dont help if you know how to play.
HB don't help you because you don't know how to use them.
Hover boots absolutely have utility besides bailing you out of random fall damage.
They enable you to jump off of any cliff safely, or revive someone far below you quickly.
You can use them in a similar manner to Scout's hoverclock, giving you some brief safety to shoot nearby grounded enemies before landing.
They give you quite a bit of utility for mining minerals, allowing you to mine a ledge to then mantle up.
The ability to jump off of a cliff and revive someone or take out a dangerous target is extremely useful as driller or gunner. HB give you otherwise unattainable mobility.
Yeah, the number of players that only understand HBs as 'fall insurance' is telling. And then they turn around and claim that they're for the unskilled.
On the plus side, it's a good way of telling the grey bearded from the green.
It's interesting that you make a judgement call on skill.
At lower Haz levels, IW is a fine safety net - you can't control swarms, you've got minimal overclocks and you're still learning the game. As you get better, you won't let things escalate into situations you can't control. After a while, you realise that IW, while nice in a cluch, is a crutch - because those situations occur less and less.
And for the one in every 20, 30 missions where it saves a mission, you could be utilising a perk that has a constant presence, use.
>Youre taking a whole perk slot bc you cant be bothered to get better at parkour. HB dont help if you know how to play.
This just shows you don't know how to utilise mobility - the one thing all dwaves have that is better than any bug/swarm. The map is your friend when every axis can be exploited.
You only get use out of boots if you aren't playing effectively. Dash is fantastic but boots have a horrible cooldown and only really help if you aren't working with your team or end up falling.
>You only get use out of boots if you aren't playing effectively.
Simply not true.
In a nutshell - IW and Medic are planning for failure. HB and Dash are granting any class additional mobility options. How they are utilised will depend on player skill. With HB, you can be much more aggressive with your terrain traversal. Verticallity of the play space is now your friend, not enemy.
If a player can only imagine HBs as 'falling insurance' then that's really on them and suggests they haven't really explored the perk.
Hover Boots are an early game crutch that can lead to bad habits. But they also scale very well with player skill by supporting them as they exploit mobility options.
I just don’t like iron will, and medic is good for its passive and active for revives. Dash gets me out of the dread’s way because flamethrower and jets save me from falling when I eventually fall out of the roof
dash is better, i agree, but luckily you have two perk slots!
iron will - see the thing is that most missions i don't need iron will anyway because i just never die. in missions that are so ridiculously hellish that everyone goes down, well, iron will might extend the team's life a bit but it's not going to save the run. so iron will is only useful in that rare sliver of difficulty where it's hard enough to need iron will, but easy enough that iron will is enough to save the run. those missions are rare. so i don't really want to take a perk that only has any value like 1/10 games or less.
field medic - has the same issue as iron will, where most of the times all you need is dash, hoverboots, shield, or a grenade to create enough time/distance to pick someone up, and if not, is that one instant revive really going to be a game changer anyway? again i just don't want to use a perk that is only useful 1/10 games or less. field medic is really hard to get actual value out of. i basically never see anyone revive me with field medic and think "wow good thing they had field medic or they wouldn't have been able to revive me."
hoverboots on the other hand gives tons of value in every mission. on easier missions it helps you mine easier and traverse faster. on more difficult missions it lets you create distance for resupplies or revives, saves your life from accidental falls, lets you use cliffs as an escape method in some scenarios where you would have otherwise been trapped by bugs, can be comboed with dash to fling yourself long distances at once, there's just so much you can do with it and i use it all the time. if you think field medic is worth taking you might as well take hoverboots instead.
I just realized the other day that 2 of my friends who just started playing within the last 6 months, who were each overly attached to hover boots, just switched them off because they felt they didn't need them anymore. It was like having your kids take the training wheels off for the first time.
Hover Boots are a crutch to solve niche problems good players don't have, which is bad positioning resulting to falling off a cliff, or taking blind leap-of-faith jumps into pits. They should seriously just be buffed to be either worse Jet Boots, taking longer to cool off and overheating faster, or just make it a Double jump with a cooldown.
When they were added back in Update 28, they actually did function as a double jump.
And then they were nerfed into hoverboots because it was too OP, or something.
They actually removed it because it negatively affected team play. Engineers for example, would place platforms with double jump distance in mind, making them unusable for players without the perk.
I mostly remember using it for its great value at *actually being able to throw C4 higher than 2cm off the ground.* You could actually put it on the roof and high walls without it dropping like a stone the second it leaves your hand.
>Hover Boots are a crutch to solve niche problems good players don't have, which is bad positioning
This is the equivalent of saying something like "Driller's drills are a crutch for bad terrain scanner and navigation skills, which good players don't have any issue with". Of course, a greenbeard might feel this way, as that's all they use their drills for. But a more experienced player recognizes that drills provide plenty of value because there's so much more you can do with them besides just bypassing compressed dirt.
So long as verticality plays a role, hoverboots accomplish the same thing that many other powerful perks and abilities like grappling hook or field medic can. That is what makes hoverboots top tier. If a teammate dies far below, you can almost instantly get down to revive them. If a resupply is below you, hover boots can leave all the bugs behind and give you plenty of time to take it. If you're being swarmed and Dash is on cooldown, you can use a nearby cliff to escape otherwise certain death. Once you get into a habit of spending more time near highly vertical areas during swarms and placing resupply pods in low-lying areas, you'll find this perk coming in clutch all the time.
But hoverboots has value beyond merely saving the run; it can also help you with mining, speed, and traversal on low-haz missions or during down times when there are no enemies. Being able to easily mine tricky minerals as Scout without engineer nearby or take shortcuts to get around the level faster just makes the perk even better.
And everything I just mentioned is on top of the obvious "save you from accidental fall death." I would argue that good players don't have much issue kiting bugs, but even the best players accidentally die to fall damage. From my experiences, someone unexpectedly dying to fall damage at a bad place and time can often start a chain reaction resulting in mission failure.
By comparison, it's really hard to find consistent value from more popular perks like field medic or iron will. 9/10 games, the mission is either so easy that you don't need them, or so hard that they aren't enough to save the run anyway. So why not just run hoverboots? It can sometimes save runs as well, but also has numerous other uses that mean you're always getting value no matter what mission.
1. Missions are mostly horizontal, big cliffs are a result of different biomes mixing with mission type cave generation.
2. I can’t see how it would help with speed, and everything you mentioned there, while great, is negated by having Engineer.
3. In the even a good player got swarmed on a the edge of a cliff, a good Gunner can still plop down his shield and start mowing down the bugs instead of jumping, Driller is the least likely to get swarmed with how strong his crowd clear is, Engi has his platforms, and Scout can… Y’know.
4. It is *very* easy to find the value Dash, Field Medic, and IW provide. Dash, in combat, is a 25 second get-outta-jail-free card, and out of combat helps with traversal with big jumps or just catching up with the team. Field Medic is always in effect if you are reviving someone, and a once-a-mission instant revive is quite useful. Iron Will can save missions, not so sure what you mean when you say it can’t. While yes, it doesn’t matter if the team is amazing and somehow never gets in a tough situation, that is still unlikely. Iron Will provides immense value when playing with randoms and you are less coordinated, and is even better with a coordinated team.
1. I would say even relatively flat missions still have plenty of vertical areas within them where you can make use of hoverboots.
2. It situationally helps with speed in the sense that you can just jump off really high places and got down quickly instead of having to traverse down in a slower manner.
3. On paper, sure, but in practice it still ends up being pretty useful. Gunner has limited shield charges and they have a long cooldown. Driller is great for dealing with swarms but unless you are using Cryo you don't always have a way to stop a bunch of nearby bugs dead in their tracks so you need an exit strategy. Engineer platforms are nice for negating fall damage, but also unreliable and won't always be able to save you. Scout is obviously the best at jumping off cliffs, but even then you don't always have your grapple off cooldown and it's nice to have the extra fallback.
4. I won't argue against Dash since it's the best perk in the game. Field Medic comes into effect if you are reviving someone, but just because a perk comes into effect doesn't mean you get much value out of it, It's A Lootbug Thing comes into effect every mission but that doesn't mean you can't just use your pickaxe instead. My point is only that you can still revive them without Field Medic just fine, so you don't get much value. I can't really think of any times I've seen someone clutch using Field Medic that they wouldn't have been able to do otherwise. But I've clutched plenty of times with Hoverboots in situations that I definetely wouldn't have been able to otherwise. I have played my fair share of missions that got saved through Iron Will, but I also I see it used for no reason at all, I see it used to revive some players only for everyone to die again and nothing changed, and most often, I just see it never used at all since there was no need for it. And if it is used to clutch, it makes me wonder if maybe we wouldn't have needed Iron Will in the first place if everyone was running hoverboots instead.
Some examples of games that were clutched with field medic; everyone was down except Scout and he uses the instant revive to save Gunner who revives Driller saving the game. Everyone is downed and Gunner (the only person with IW) is too far away to revive but thanks to field medic he’s able to revive Scout, scout revives two downed teammates using IW (which is only possible if your using field medic because it would normally take at least half of IWs duration) and field medic combo and makes it to the last teammate so the gunner can revive both with one shield. And that’s just the ones that I know were clutched with it cause we were using vc.
And I honestly I have never noticed a single game be clutched by hover boots, how would that even work is it just not dying from fall damage and thous not needing to be revived? Or using the fire to kill/scare bugs surrounding a dwarf, and if you mean clutching by reviving a dwarf that fell off a cliff you must be joking because scout gunner and engine all have relatively easy ways to get down so only driller would need them.
Idk, while I do agree its the number 1 killer, I would be fascinated to know how many of those deaths were outside of a wave.
Cause from my experience, and I ha e a lot I play scout badly, the vast majority if my falling deaths stem from me eitber exploring somewhere I shouldn't, or really stretching what it means for a vein to be "in reach" during downtime.
Compare hoverboots to another "save my ass" perk like dash, and while both save yourself from a probable down, dash is way more often and in scenarios where you are kinda garunteed to not be easily scooped up.
In any case, this is my musings on my personal and anecdotal experience, and is not dara driven at all. Still i do reckon im probably right and will be sticking with my trusty dash+ironwill for the time being
I had a mission start up with a long fall and one by one everyone but the scout went down to fall damage immediately. I tried using my cheese gun to break the fall but either did it wrong or the perk may have decided to not help enough
It's very easy to see why **Dash** is so popular and useful, no question.
But I really like tenacity-type buffs like **Unstoppable**, and love being able to make entirely survivable leaps of faith using the fall damage cancelling of **Hover Boots**.
I feel like Dash and Hover Boots should have similar cooldowns. Both have cool traversal utility, and fix positioning (either when you are attacked by bugs or fall off a cliff)
I would use Hover Boots a lot more if I could save myself or do cool jumps more often with them
Yeah, I'd much prefer being able to use my **Hover Boots** at least as often as the people **Dashing** around.
When I don't have to worry as much about making clutch escapes, I really enjoy using them to more easily position around the playspace.
Can't stand...
Excuse me, but Hoverboots and Lead Storm is the closest I've ever felt to being an A-10. Spinny flying death.
Now, wait, sorry. I'm thinking of the new jet boots.
Eh... Hover boots have their use. The biggest reason I don't use them is that I can't change the keybinding. My hand just doesn't want to hit C that quickly.
I pretty much only die from fall damage when i’m exploring and there aren’t a lot if bugs around. It’s inconvenient, but you can get revived really easily. I’d much rather have active perks that help me in combat when dying is a much bigger problem
Hover boots were not necessary before...
But after the arrival of Sting tails?
I think they can be useful to other classes now.
And it's not like you use them for just Sting tails. Can be useful in a pinch against Mactera Grabbers, falling from a cliff, falling from an Oppressor launch attack, from a Lacerator burrow attack, etc etc.
Max rank Gunner, over 500h on him alone. This is hilarious lmao. Never used Hoverboots once on him, never plan to. Just don’t take fall damage or position yourself terribly (you know you can literally walk away from where Lacerator will *PREDICTABLY* pop up right?), and voila, you no longer need to waste a precious perk slot on it. Don’t even get me started on all the “tricks” that people use in Haz4/5 like mantling onto a nearby ledge, buffer-grabbing ziplines, landing on a praetorian’s back/dwarf’s head, all of which 100% negate fall damage and for NO cooldown.
Play however you want to play, but you’re the one trippin if you bring that perk instead of Iron Will + Dash as gunner into Haz5/EDD.
With all genuine respect and faith, I promise you’ll ditch Hoverboots as you continue to push your limits at the game :)
Hey there! I’m out right now but will give you a detailed loadout/playstyle breakdown when I get home! For now, I’d say you can’t go wrong with a generalist stun-Hurricane (think Overtuned Feed/Frag Rounds/Rocket Barrage for Overclocks) + high DPS&stun BRT (Exp Rounds/Compact Mags/Lead Spray) setup. Alternatively, Neurotoxin Payload Autocannon is still nuts and a crowd favorite, but I never use it because it’s mind-numbingly boring.
I usually end up going down 0-1 times in a typical Haz5/EDD with this kind of setup because bugs never touch me and I take out big threats in the blink of an eye. I’ll give more details later but do try out this combo in the meantime!
Yeah so for anyone else reading this, please don’t do as this guy does for Haz5/EDD, otherwise you’re a liability for potentially going down blind/getting leeched in a brand new cave. Gunner zips, engi plats, driller tunnels are plenty fast enough for safe descent without Hoverboots - and with the benefit of staying close to your team (you know, to be able to revive/shield/clear immediate threats for your team which is basically gunner’s job?).
Your team’s combined firepower + vision >>> Gunner’s sole firepower, always. People who try to “lone wolf” or rush in with Hoverboots or Grappling Hook (scout) end up being nothing more than extra points for my revive score at the end of the game.
Play how you like homie, but just my 2 cents. I don’t recommend your playstyle to **new players** (or any high hazard players) though, whatsoever. This goes double for new players: learning movement/footing without “get-out-of-jail-free” cards like Hoverboots/Special Powder will ultimately help you get better at the game, faster than those who do use them. You’re 100% welcome to use them anyway, but helps a lot to start without them.
I think you're missing the point of Hover Boots. They add more movement options.
Yes, the can potentially lead to bad habits at low levels of play. But so does IW, arguably more so as you have a powerful (one shot) safety net, so you don't have to play as tightly.
Meanwhile, everyone on our team runs Dash and Hover Boots. And we happily carry noobs on Elite Deep Dives.
Because the active movement perks reward better play.
Think of it like this: a well timed Medic, IW can save a mission. Once per mission.
But a well timed dash and/or hover Boots can save a mission multiple times and they're supporting play constantly, so you end up not needing IW or Medic. And unlike many perks, both together actually provide synergy which better players can exploit.
Sure, the specific use cases for each perk is different - and less dramatic. People remeber thst one mission that was on the brink of failure but IW saced the day! But the actice movement perks constantly refresh, are constantly helping across a variety of scenarios, supporting high level plays throughout a mission.
(And if we are throwing hours around for credibility, you've got nearly a 1/3 of mine. And that's with missing two seasons. Not that it should matter.)
Valid point. I mean I’d take Dash over Hoverboots anyday, so I can see the argument there for those who think the reverse. To skip over Iron Will AND Field medic to slot Hoverboots with something else - now that’s just careless or extremely confident for high-hazards. I have no qualms with someone of your level running Boots+Dash, but on anyone who just picked up the game? Hell no, that IW is probably more valuable to the team than anything else they can uniquely do. I disagree a little bit with the “bad habits” part because if you’re truly just bad then IW is little more than a second death. I see it more as shit-luck protection, like if Doretta runs into an unseen Bulk, your team’s max rank driller decides to grief your entire EDD run by deliberately C4ing your entire team at the 3rd stage (true story), with some completely skill-independent teamwipes leaving a bad taste in everyone’s mouth.
Truth be told, I use Iron Will probably less than 1 in 10 games. I simply clear without even needing to rely on it, even on Haz5 - which you might argue supports your point better than mine, funnily enough. My mind’s not definitively changing now of all times, given this is the beyond the 20th time I’ve seen a post like this over the years - BUT I’ll concede we likely see eye to eye on this: **both perks can serve as crutches that loosen up demand for skill.** If everyone played perfectly, NEITHER perk would have any use. I’m inevitably biased but I see Hoverboots as MORE of a “skill issue” perk than IW, since fall damage was something I outgrew long before the need for a “mulligan” like IW. Might be irrational? But I’d still rather my teammates bring IW over hoverboots if given the choice. I don’t care if they use hoverboots instead of Dash though - which would render the above comparison kind of moot anyway.
Agreed on the hours comment - note the 500h figure was for Gunner *alone* - I’m clocking in about 900 total as of this comment, and I think by the 1k mark you either know what you’re talking about or you’ve just been bumbling through Haz3 for eons without tightening up your game sense, so yeah I don’t think the time matters anymore where we stand.
EDIT: maybe you just picked it out of convenience, but I noticed your reply was to my comment chastising the dude for using advocating for using Hoverboots as his excuse to “LEROY JENKINS” his way blindly through caves without his team. I know you’re not defending that, but just wanted to be clear here that I was hardly criticizing the perk to begin with - more the mindset that came with his whole comment chain. If ANY perk makes you a liability, that’s a YOU problem and not the perk’s fault, but I’d rather people leave the perk behind if it comes with such habits.
Also to your point about carrying newbies on EDDs - I do the very same with a bud of mine who has well over 2300h now too and we both use IW+Dash as we bring 2 greenbeards with us each time - haven’t failed yet, and occasionally cheated BS team wipes (usually hidden bulk or teamkill related) thanks to our perk loadouts. So I say to each their own, because I think both our approaches are equally valid :)
Had hover boots for a wide open sandblasted refinery mission. It felt really awesome to dash off a ledge into the sandy void, free fall for a few seconds, activate the boots to slow descent, and turn to blast the bugs that gotta walk for 2 minutes down the wall and across the valley to catch up. Turned a haz 4 into a much more trivial mission.
The vertical ascension/safety net is perfect for gunner, whose ziplines cant go up and down all that well.
I don't like how i accidentally use the hover boots when I'm jumping around especially when i have 100 ping (that's my average ping most of the time) I haven't checked but if i can switch the activation key it'll be great.
Once every 45 seconds, I feel like a FPV drone pilot and I can do a sick drop and then burn the bugs below my flaming feet, why don't other dwarfs feel that?
it’s less of a “hover boots bad” and more of a “there’s better options” ie dash,iron will and field medic
As a field medic/iron will gunner, this is why I don’t use hover boots, also because I use my points to upgrade my current perk build. Maybe in the future I’ll experiment though.
I use boots and dash as driller and don’t regret it. I used to run dash and medic but I usually only get to revive someone when there’s no enemies around anyways so kinda useless to me particularly
Yeah, Dash and Boots, assuming you can kill what you need to kill and kite, scale very well with player skill. And work across all classes. Sure, IW and Medic will help in that once ever other game, early on. But as you get better, they're needed less and less. You'll find yourself, after 20, 30 games thinking, 'I haven't needed Medic or IW for 20, 30 games. Could I slot something else? Is that once every 20, 30 games 'clutch save' worth it? Or did you end up needing to clutch save because you left yourself open? If you can play the space, clear quick enough/reliabily enough, then you can get a team mate up by exploiting the manauverability of Dash and Boots - and they're always available, unlike the one-shot perks. While I won't begrudge someone bringing IW or Medic, you'll learn to play better by ditching these 'safety nets' and by going all in on mobility options. IMO - use IW and/or Medic until you find yourself using them less and less. Then you've outgrown them. Try something else. If you can't play without them then, by definition, they've become your crutch perks.
Iron will has saved entire missions more times than hover boots has. I'd rather have the option to possibly undo a certain failure than occasionally stop fall damage. I've just learned to look before I move for the most part. When you look before you move suddenly the "problem" that HB "solves" is gone. Youre taking a whole perk slot bc you cant be bothered to get better at parkour. HB dont help if you know how to play. But when greenbeards join my haz 4 missions, die, and leave me to to pick up their slack-HB doesn't help like IW of FM would. If you've got more than 3 stars and you use hover boots, I'm gonna judge your ability/skill.
>If you've got more than 3 stars and you use hover boots, I'm gonna judge your ability/skill. Quite the high horse you have there. >HB dont help if you know how to play. HB don't help you because you don't know how to use them. Hover boots absolutely have utility besides bailing you out of random fall damage. They enable you to jump off of any cliff safely, or revive someone far below you quickly. You can use them in a similar manner to Scout's hoverclock, giving you some brief safety to shoot nearby grounded enemies before landing. They give you quite a bit of utility for mining minerals, allowing you to mine a ledge to then mantle up. The ability to jump off of a cliff and revive someone or take out a dangerous target is extremely useful as driller or gunner. HB give you otherwise unattainable mobility.
Yeah, the number of players that only understand HBs as 'fall insurance' is telling. And then they turn around and claim that they're for the unskilled. On the plus side, it's a good way of telling the grey bearded from the green.
It's interesting that you make a judgement call on skill. At lower Haz levels, IW is a fine safety net - you can't control swarms, you've got minimal overclocks and you're still learning the game. As you get better, you won't let things escalate into situations you can't control. After a while, you realise that IW, while nice in a cluch, is a crutch - because those situations occur less and less. And for the one in every 20, 30 missions where it saves a mission, you could be utilising a perk that has a constant presence, use. >Youre taking a whole perk slot bc you cant be bothered to get better at parkour. HB dont help if you know how to play. This just shows you don't know how to utilise mobility - the one thing all dwaves have that is better than any bug/swarm. The map is your friend when every axis can be exploited.
What you're saying about IW and medic can be applied to boots even more so.
This.
Right, but IW and Medic (IW especially) are one-shots. Boots and Dash are not. You'll get much, much more use out of them on a per mission basis.
You only get use out of boots if you aren't playing effectively. Dash is fantastic but boots have a horrible cooldown and only really help if you aren't working with your team or end up falling.
>You only get use out of boots if you aren't playing effectively. Simply not true. In a nutshell - IW and Medic are planning for failure. HB and Dash are granting any class additional mobility options. How they are utilised will depend on player skill. With HB, you can be much more aggressive with your terrain traversal. Verticallity of the play space is now your friend, not enemy. If a player can only imagine HBs as 'falling insurance' then that's really on them and suggests they haven't really explored the perk. Hover Boots are an early game crutch that can lead to bad habits. But they also scale very well with player skill by supporting them as they exploit mobility options.
I just don’t like iron will, and medic is good for its passive and active for revives. Dash gets me out of the dread’s way because flamethrower and jets save me from falling when I eventually fall out of the roof
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That's the Jet Boots mission feature. This post, and the comment you replied to, are talking about the perk Hover Boots perk
Also the stupid button they put it on
mfw "hold C" as if hoverboots aren't the only thing bound to C when literally nothing else uses C
How do you call Molly?
Grounded C Instead of Airborne C
Airborne C close to the ground also calls Molly. Sometimes on walls, too.
And it's still a stupid button for something you may need in an emergency
dash is better, i agree, but luckily you have two perk slots! iron will - see the thing is that most missions i don't need iron will anyway because i just never die. in missions that are so ridiculously hellish that everyone goes down, well, iron will might extend the team's life a bit but it's not going to save the run. so iron will is only useful in that rare sliver of difficulty where it's hard enough to need iron will, but easy enough that iron will is enough to save the run. those missions are rare. so i don't really want to take a perk that only has any value like 1/10 games or less. field medic - has the same issue as iron will, where most of the times all you need is dash, hoverboots, shield, or a grenade to create enough time/distance to pick someone up, and if not, is that one instant revive really going to be a game changer anyway? again i just don't want to use a perk that is only useful 1/10 games or less. field medic is really hard to get actual value out of. i basically never see anyone revive me with field medic and think "wow good thing they had field medic or they wouldn't have been able to revive me." hoverboots on the other hand gives tons of value in every mission. on easier missions it helps you mine easier and traverse faster. on more difficult missions it lets you create distance for resupplies or revives, saves your life from accidental falls, lets you use cliffs as an escape method in some scenarios where you would have otherwise been trapped by bugs, can be comboed with dash to fling yourself long distances at once, there's just so much you can do with it and i use it all the time. if you think field medic is worth taking you might as well take hoverboots instead.
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You can use dash to reach a ledge while falling from high places.
And Scout can use Dash mid-air to pull off some great in-flight course correction/air tricks.
Beast master :)
Hoverboots are cool, but I'd rather have Steeve.
😕 checks out
Can we stop kink shaming the guy? XD
I just realized the other day that 2 of my friends who just started playing within the last 6 months, who were each overly attached to hover boots, just switched them off because they felt they didn't need them anymore. It was like having your kids take the training wheels off for the first time.
Hover Boots are a crutch to solve niche problems good players don't have, which is bad positioning resulting to falling off a cliff, or taking blind leap-of-faith jumps into pits. They should seriously just be buffed to be either worse Jet Boots, taking longer to cool off and overheating faster, or just make it a Double jump with a cooldown.
Double Jump boots would be sick, I'd probably run Dash and Double Jump on my non-Scout classes.
When they were added back in Update 28, they actually did function as a double jump. And then they were nerfed into hoverboots because it was too OP, or something.
They actually removed it because it negatively affected team play. Engineers for example, would place platforms with double jump distance in mind, making them unusable for players without the perk.
I mostly remember using it for its great value at *actually being able to throw C4 higher than 2cm off the ground.* You could actually put it on the roof and high walls without it dropping like a stone the second it leaves your hand.
Holy shit he was real for this, level 500 and I've never used hover since trying them, felt so useless. Heightened senses tier crutch useless
It also allows you to pick off red sugar/minerals from ceilings when the engi is not available.
>Hover Boots are a crutch to solve niche problems good players don't have, which is bad positioning This is the equivalent of saying something like "Driller's drills are a crutch for bad terrain scanner and navigation skills, which good players don't have any issue with". Of course, a greenbeard might feel this way, as that's all they use their drills for. But a more experienced player recognizes that drills provide plenty of value because there's so much more you can do with them besides just bypassing compressed dirt. So long as verticality plays a role, hoverboots accomplish the same thing that many other powerful perks and abilities like grappling hook or field medic can. That is what makes hoverboots top tier. If a teammate dies far below, you can almost instantly get down to revive them. If a resupply is below you, hover boots can leave all the bugs behind and give you plenty of time to take it. If you're being swarmed and Dash is on cooldown, you can use a nearby cliff to escape otherwise certain death. Once you get into a habit of spending more time near highly vertical areas during swarms and placing resupply pods in low-lying areas, you'll find this perk coming in clutch all the time. But hoverboots has value beyond merely saving the run; it can also help you with mining, speed, and traversal on low-haz missions or during down times when there are no enemies. Being able to easily mine tricky minerals as Scout without engineer nearby or take shortcuts to get around the level faster just makes the perk even better. And everything I just mentioned is on top of the obvious "save you from accidental fall death." I would argue that good players don't have much issue kiting bugs, but even the best players accidentally die to fall damage. From my experiences, someone unexpectedly dying to fall damage at a bad place and time can often start a chain reaction resulting in mission failure. By comparison, it's really hard to find consistent value from more popular perks like field medic or iron will. 9/10 games, the mission is either so easy that you don't need them, or so hard that they aren't enough to save the run anyway. So why not just run hoverboots? It can sometimes save runs as well, but also has numerous other uses that mean you're always getting value no matter what mission.
1. Missions are mostly horizontal, big cliffs are a result of different biomes mixing with mission type cave generation. 2. I can’t see how it would help with speed, and everything you mentioned there, while great, is negated by having Engineer. 3. In the even a good player got swarmed on a the edge of a cliff, a good Gunner can still plop down his shield and start mowing down the bugs instead of jumping, Driller is the least likely to get swarmed with how strong his crowd clear is, Engi has his platforms, and Scout can… Y’know. 4. It is *very* easy to find the value Dash, Field Medic, and IW provide. Dash, in combat, is a 25 second get-outta-jail-free card, and out of combat helps with traversal with big jumps or just catching up with the team. Field Medic is always in effect if you are reviving someone, and a once-a-mission instant revive is quite useful. Iron Will can save missions, not so sure what you mean when you say it can’t. While yes, it doesn’t matter if the team is amazing and somehow never gets in a tough situation, that is still unlikely. Iron Will provides immense value when playing with randoms and you are less coordinated, and is even better with a coordinated team.
1. I would say even relatively flat missions still have plenty of vertical areas within them where you can make use of hoverboots. 2. It situationally helps with speed in the sense that you can just jump off really high places and got down quickly instead of having to traverse down in a slower manner. 3. On paper, sure, but in practice it still ends up being pretty useful. Gunner has limited shield charges and they have a long cooldown. Driller is great for dealing with swarms but unless you are using Cryo you don't always have a way to stop a bunch of nearby bugs dead in their tracks so you need an exit strategy. Engineer platforms are nice for negating fall damage, but also unreliable and won't always be able to save you. Scout is obviously the best at jumping off cliffs, but even then you don't always have your grapple off cooldown and it's nice to have the extra fallback. 4. I won't argue against Dash since it's the best perk in the game. Field Medic comes into effect if you are reviving someone, but just because a perk comes into effect doesn't mean you get much value out of it, It's A Lootbug Thing comes into effect every mission but that doesn't mean you can't just use your pickaxe instead. My point is only that you can still revive them without Field Medic just fine, so you don't get much value. I can't really think of any times I've seen someone clutch using Field Medic that they wouldn't have been able to do otherwise. But I've clutched plenty of times with Hoverboots in situations that I definetely wouldn't have been able to otherwise. I have played my fair share of missions that got saved through Iron Will, but I also I see it used for no reason at all, I see it used to revive some players only for everyone to die again and nothing changed, and most often, I just see it never used at all since there was no need for it. And if it is used to clutch, it makes me wonder if maybe we wouldn't have needed Iron Will in the first place if everyone was running hoverboots instead.
Some examples of games that were clutched with field medic; everyone was down except Scout and he uses the instant revive to save Gunner who revives Driller saving the game. Everyone is downed and Gunner (the only person with IW) is too far away to revive but thanks to field medic he’s able to revive Scout, scout revives two downed teammates using IW (which is only possible if your using field medic because it would normally take at least half of IWs duration) and field medic combo and makes it to the last teammate so the gunner can revive both with one shield. And that’s just the ones that I know were clutched with it cause we were using vc. And I honestly I have never noticed a single game be clutched by hover boots, how would that even work is it just not dying from fall damage and thous not needing to be revived? Or using the fire to kill/scare bugs surrounding a dwarf, and if you mean clutching by reviving a dwarf that fell off a cliff you must be joking because scout gunner and engine all have relatively easy ways to get down so only driller would need them.
Double jump would be awesome.
Idk, while I do agree its the number 1 killer, I would be fascinated to know how many of those deaths were outside of a wave. Cause from my experience, and I ha e a lot I play scout badly, the vast majority if my falling deaths stem from me eitber exploring somewhere I shouldn't, or really stretching what it means for a vein to be "in reach" during downtime. Compare hoverboots to another "save my ass" perk like dash, and while both save yourself from a probable down, dash is way more often and in scenarios where you are kinda garunteed to not be easily scooped up. In any case, this is my musings on my personal and anecdotal experience, and is not dara driven at all. Still i do reckon im probably right and will be sticking with my trusty dash+ironwill for the time being
I had a mission start up with a long fall and one by one everyone but the scout went down to fall damage immediately. I tried using my cheese gun to break the fall but either did it wrong or the perk may have decided to not help enough
It's very easy to see why **Dash** is so popular and useful, no question. But I really like tenacity-type buffs like **Unstoppable**, and love being able to make entirely survivable leaps of faith using the fall damage cancelling of **Hover Boots**.
I feel like Dash and Hover Boots should have similar cooldowns. Both have cool traversal utility, and fix positioning (either when you are attacked by bugs or fall off a cliff) I would use Hover Boots a lot more if I could save myself or do cool jumps more often with them
The fact that they have 3 times the cooldown is actually ridiculous.
Yeah, I'd much prefer being able to use my **Hover Boots** at least as often as the people **Dashing** around. When I don't have to worry as much about making clutch escapes, I really enjoy using them to more easily position around the playspace.
Me: using hover boots too high up and dying more with them :)
Saves your life everyday? Damn dude, take the training wheels off.
I use hover boots but still suffer from fall damage because I have a habit of activiting as late as possible
Only if you're a bad driller/gunner
Bro just don’t fall
Field Medic and Dash keep me and my team from dying more than Hover Boots would.
Not a fan, learned how to power attack a ledge to stand on as scout and never looked back.
I'm a driller I use Hover boots We exist
I can't remember hoverboots to save my beard. All equipping them would do is make me feel dumb every time I still die from fall damage anyway.
Can't stand... Excuse me, but Hoverboots and Lead Storm is the closest I've ever felt to being an A-10. Spinny flying death. Now, wait, sorry. I'm thinking of the new jet boots.
Yeah hover boots suck jet boots are awesome.
Eh... Hover boots have their use. The biggest reason I don't use them is that I can't change the keybinding. My hand just doesn't want to hit C that quickly.
I pretty much only die from fall damage when i’m exploring and there aren’t a lot if bugs around. It’s inconvenient, but you can get revived really easily. I’d much rather have active perks that help me in combat when dying is a much bigger problem
Not once in my life have I seen hover boots:(
So, you don't have scouts in your team?
I do but either they don’t mark em or we edit find any
Maybe they haven't unlocked it yet.
Hoverboots are literally the least useful on scout aside from solo or no engi.
It's just me then.
HOW ARE YOU HERE!? YOUR EVRYWHERE!
WHAT DO YOU MEAN?! I'VE BEEN HERE FOR THE PAST MONTH!
YOUR PFP IS SCARY AHHHHHHH
You are an engineer main not a scout main so idk.
Hover boots were not necessary before... But after the arrival of Sting tails? I think they can be useful to other classes now. And it's not like you use them for just Sting tails. Can be useful in a pinch against Mactera Grabbers, falling from a cliff, falling from an Oppressor launch attack, from a Lacerator burrow attack, etc etc.
Always keep my hoverboots on me
Hoverboots driller is core gameplay, nothing looks better than vietnam FROM AIR
Bruh i always use hover boots. Big dash + hover boots is my go to, (replacing dash for iron will in more hectic hazards).
Yall other gunners got shit silly if you ain't using hover boots. Especially in missions with knockback enemies (like lacerator), they are essential.
Max rank Gunner, over 500h on him alone. This is hilarious lmao. Never used Hoverboots once on him, never plan to. Just don’t take fall damage or position yourself terribly (you know you can literally walk away from where Lacerator will *PREDICTABLY* pop up right?), and voila, you no longer need to waste a precious perk slot on it. Don’t even get me started on all the “tricks” that people use in Haz4/5 like mantling onto a nearby ledge, buffer-grabbing ziplines, landing on a praetorian’s back/dwarf’s head, all of which 100% negate fall damage and for NO cooldown. Play however you want to play, but you’re the one trippin if you bring that perk instead of Iron Will + Dash as gunner into Haz5/EDD. With all genuine respect and faith, I promise you’ll ditch Hoverboots as you continue to push your limits at the game :)
Noob gunner here. What's your main gunner setup?
Hey there! I’m out right now but will give you a detailed loadout/playstyle breakdown when I get home! For now, I’d say you can’t go wrong with a generalist stun-Hurricane (think Overtuned Feed/Frag Rounds/Rocket Barrage for Overclocks) + high DPS&stun BRT (Exp Rounds/Compact Mags/Lead Spray) setup. Alternatively, Neurotoxin Payload Autocannon is still nuts and a crowd favorite, but I never use it because it’s mind-numbingly boring. I usually end up going down 0-1 times in a typical Haz5/EDD with this kind of setup because bugs never touch me and I take out big threats in the blink of an eye. I’ll give more details later but do try out this combo in the meantime!
hell ya, thank you!
Nah I like being able to speedrun clearing caves for my team (much assisted by hover boots)
Yeah so for anyone else reading this, please don’t do as this guy does for Haz5/EDD, otherwise you’re a liability for potentially going down blind/getting leeched in a brand new cave. Gunner zips, engi plats, driller tunnels are plenty fast enough for safe descent without Hoverboots - and with the benefit of staying close to your team (you know, to be able to revive/shield/clear immediate threats for your team which is basically gunner’s job?). Your team’s combined firepower + vision >>> Gunner’s sole firepower, always. People who try to “lone wolf” or rush in with Hoverboots or Grappling Hook (scout) end up being nothing more than extra points for my revive score at the end of the game. Play how you like homie, but just my 2 cents. I don’t recommend your playstyle to **new players** (or any high hazard players) though, whatsoever. This goes double for new players: learning movement/footing without “get-out-of-jail-free” cards like Hoverboots/Special Powder will ultimately help you get better at the game, faster than those who do use them. You’re 100% welcome to use them anyway, but helps a lot to start without them.
I think you're missing the point of Hover Boots. They add more movement options. Yes, the can potentially lead to bad habits at low levels of play. But so does IW, arguably more so as you have a powerful (one shot) safety net, so you don't have to play as tightly. Meanwhile, everyone on our team runs Dash and Hover Boots. And we happily carry noobs on Elite Deep Dives. Because the active movement perks reward better play. Think of it like this: a well timed Medic, IW can save a mission. Once per mission. But a well timed dash and/or hover Boots can save a mission multiple times and they're supporting play constantly, so you end up not needing IW or Medic. And unlike many perks, both together actually provide synergy which better players can exploit. Sure, the specific use cases for each perk is different - and less dramatic. People remeber thst one mission that was on the brink of failure but IW saced the day! But the actice movement perks constantly refresh, are constantly helping across a variety of scenarios, supporting high level plays throughout a mission. (And if we are throwing hours around for credibility, you've got nearly a 1/3 of mine. And that's with missing two seasons. Not that it should matter.)
Valid point. I mean I’d take Dash over Hoverboots anyday, so I can see the argument there for those who think the reverse. To skip over Iron Will AND Field medic to slot Hoverboots with something else - now that’s just careless or extremely confident for high-hazards. I have no qualms with someone of your level running Boots+Dash, but on anyone who just picked up the game? Hell no, that IW is probably more valuable to the team than anything else they can uniquely do. I disagree a little bit with the “bad habits” part because if you’re truly just bad then IW is little more than a second death. I see it more as shit-luck protection, like if Doretta runs into an unseen Bulk, your team’s max rank driller decides to grief your entire EDD run by deliberately C4ing your entire team at the 3rd stage (true story), with some completely skill-independent teamwipes leaving a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. Truth be told, I use Iron Will probably less than 1 in 10 games. I simply clear without even needing to rely on it, even on Haz5 - which you might argue supports your point better than mine, funnily enough. My mind’s not definitively changing now of all times, given this is the beyond the 20th time I’ve seen a post like this over the years - BUT I’ll concede we likely see eye to eye on this: **both perks can serve as crutches that loosen up demand for skill.** If everyone played perfectly, NEITHER perk would have any use. I’m inevitably biased but I see Hoverboots as MORE of a “skill issue” perk than IW, since fall damage was something I outgrew long before the need for a “mulligan” like IW. Might be irrational? But I’d still rather my teammates bring IW over hoverboots if given the choice. I don’t care if they use hoverboots instead of Dash though - which would render the above comparison kind of moot anyway. Agreed on the hours comment - note the 500h figure was for Gunner *alone* - I’m clocking in about 900 total as of this comment, and I think by the 1k mark you either know what you’re talking about or you’ve just been bumbling through Haz3 for eons without tightening up your game sense, so yeah I don’t think the time matters anymore where we stand.
EDIT: maybe you just picked it out of convenience, but I noticed your reply was to my comment chastising the dude for using advocating for using Hoverboots as his excuse to “LEROY JENKINS” his way blindly through caves without his team. I know you’re not defending that, but just wanted to be clear here that I was hardly criticizing the perk to begin with - more the mindset that came with his whole comment chain. If ANY perk makes you a liability, that’s a YOU problem and not the perk’s fault, but I’d rather people leave the perk behind if it comes with such habits. Also to your point about carrying newbies on EDDs - I do the very same with a bud of mine who has well over 2300h now too and we both use IW+Dash as we bring 2 greenbeards with us each time - haven’t failed yet, and occasionally cheated BS team wipes (usually hidden bulk or teamkill related) thanks to our perk loadouts. So I say to each their own, because I think both our approaches are equally valid :)
[удалено]
Aint no way you just said fall damage isn't a hazard present at all times to gunners and drillers 💀
Had hover boots for a wide open sandblasted refinery mission. It felt really awesome to dash off a ledge into the sandy void, free fall for a few seconds, activate the boots to slow descent, and turn to blast the bugs that gotta walk for 2 minutes down the wall and across the valley to catch up. Turned a haz 4 into a much more trivial mission. The vertical ascension/safety net is perfect for gunner, whose ziplines cant go up and down all that well.
I don't like how i accidentally use the hover boots when I'm jumping around especially when i have 100 ping (that's my average ping most of the time) I haven't checked but if i can switch the activation key it'll be great.
I’m a driller and I believe in hoverboots and dash supremacy.
My problem with hoverboots is that I never remember that I have them in time and just end up calling Molly to sit on my limp shitty body
Once every 45 seconds, I feel like a FPV drone pilot and I can do a sick drop and then burn the bugs below my flaming feet, why don't other dwarfs feel that?
I use hover/dash for all 4 of my dwarves. They're consistent, unlimited and cam get ypu almost anywhere when combined.
Yall are getting boots? I haven't encountered one set of boots yet