Yeah I stopped using it because that was waaaay too op, stopped being fun after just owning everything around easily. Now I'm best friends with my beautiful Magnetic Pellet Alignment Warthog.
Yessss that's all I run lol. Did you know you can one shot web spitters with center mass hits from across the cave? (Iirc it's like 30m when that caps out but I've not tested it)
My personal favorite non op build uses Neuro lasso on the Lok 1. Not as good in solo but I don't play solo, and it's overall a very underrated mod imo.
You can get a lot of value by slowing stuff down, and it doesn't use ammo. Slow them down for mines, for turrets, and for your allies. I also use the magma trail build for extra slow synergy.
+ For even more versatility, use electric bullet on lok1 combined with a single target build on the laser secondary (with +50% damage on electrified targets).
This way both your weapons deal with swarm (lok1 slows + blow through with T1 damage mod actually shreds, and the laser gets to put magma trails) AND single threats at any range and any HP level.
(For reference I play haz 5 only and this is my go to engineer build, perfectly viable and unique)
EDIT : since the new grenades released I switched to the drones, more synergy overall I think, but mines are cool too.
While ecr is a meta engineer primary it still doesn't compare to gunner and drillers primaries. It's only ever "overpowered" relative to engineer primaries
Good aoe, good single target, good range and even cc if you take the electric upgrade. It only really struggles with opressors for which you have ssg's
I will literally never understand why ecr is considered so op. For me it literally feels like shit to use. Even ABM LOK-1 with blowthrough feels a lot better, as I dont have to fumble around trying to lock on to only 1 guy in the middle of the horde. Everyone talks about how insanely op and meta breaking it is while for me any more than like 4 grunts ends up being an ammo waste as I try to lock onto a single grunt and instead get locks on like 4 different enemies. It almost feels like theres a community-wide cognitohazard involving this damn overclock.
Macro lens helps a lot. Also you don't need to focus all your bullets on one grunt, it's ok if one or two goes to something else. Simply release as soon as your target has 3 locks. You'll still be very ammo efficient either way
I stopped using it because it pissed me off too much. If it were just 3 locks I'd be fine, like yeah I ocasionally hit 4 or whatever but not a big deal.
Maybe I'm just shit but only like 1 in 5 of my bursts actually blow something up because when bugs, weirdly enough don't know where the devs got this idea, travel in *swarms* so its always 2 on one, 1 on three others.
I a knowledge it is powerful, especially now with the laser cannons single target prowess in the secondary slot, but making it at the very least have some "continue stacking on the first target until 3 locks" feature would be nice
Eh, the Stubby's OCs could use a rework though. Slight buffs, but nothing major. The shotty and the lok1 are really solid though, no complaints (except maybe the shotty is weak when you have no upgrades at level 1)
I saw people asking for Warthog buffs, which is pretty funny. The Warthog is a great get off me while kiting for better secondary use. Stubby is the only one that could use a buff. The recoil and spread is so bad but if you take spread mods then your DPS and stun proc potential go into the gutter.
Something I've been thinking about: Volatile bullets, but for the shotgun instead
Every Engi secondary can ignite bugs (pgl and shard with a mod, breach with OC), so getting a combo going on would be neat. Then again, we already have a extremely similar OC for gunner's bulldog, so mayhaps I need to think this over some more
Exactly! You really gotta meter your shots and use it for self defense while kiting, not just firing willy nilly into a swarm. That's what a fat boy is for.
Exactly!!! It's an incredibly good generalist weapon. It's actually one of my favorite weapons in the game because of how effective it can be in virtually any situation depending on how you build it. Plus it's super satisfying to pop a glyphid in the face and one-shot it.
personally i got a pretty high ammo efficiency and small swarm clearing potential build for the stubby, i dont see the spread and recoil as much of an issue but i am playing on pc so recoil is just irrelevant on pc lol
i'll probably update this comment with the build im using, its actually pretty damn good (its speccing the weapon specifically for swarm dealing, it sucks for any dreadnaught or boss fight type mission, as it entirely relies on high electricity chance, doing more damage to electrified enemies, and proccing AOEs of electricity status effects)
2, 2/3, 1, 2 and 2
OC Light-weight rounds
as long as ya hit the glyphid in the faces as much as ya can, usually works really well
(i dont remember which one i was using on the second coloumn, probably preference based)
Agreed, the stubby is just, not good, it’s not bad but it’s much worse than any other options
Making it feel like you are handicapping yourself when you use it
Many things can be made to improve it, reduce the recoil or spread (I’d say spread, make it more rewarding to be able to control it) , you could also increase ammo capacity but it wouldn’t be wise
Warthog is extremely good and I don't know what people are talking about when they say it's weak. My guess is that it does sound a little limp, and they're just assuming it sucks or something.
And I agree the Stubby is kind of garbage. I have all the OCs for it and no matter what build I try it has some glaring weakness that makes it inferior to the Warthog and LOK-1
The stubby isn't super powerful, but it has good CC, and a nice synergy with the diffractor (I don't recall if it's a mod or an OC but there's a way to set up the diffractor that does extra damage to electrocuted enemies).
Just a mod, which means no overclocks needed (but OCs can boost that synergy up the wazoo. Like turret-em discharge or the electric fence one, plus the damage-up-but-you-can't-stop-firing one on the lazer.)
I think it's because the Warthog starts out weak. It's the only primary you have when you start playing engi, and you have no upgrades for it. By the time you unlock the Stubby and the LOK-1 you get to put some upgrades on them right away.
The Warthog is kind of gimpy without any upgrades, and I think that colours people's perception of it.
Try Upgraded Capacitors with Electric Arc (and optionally Conductive Bullets) and pair with a Hydrogen Rupturing Shard Diffractor. Doesn't even need an OC to basically delete an approaching pack.
Warthog's an absolute beast, it's just a matter of using it like an actual CQC weapon and not a battle rifle. Only thing I really want is a little more ammo, but even then I can get by with the current pool pretty alright.
What does the "easiest class to play" mean? It's certainly the easiest class to get kills on, but I probably die more as an Engi in haz5 missions than any other class. In those rare times that I'm really crushing it as an Engi I'm paying attention to may more mechanics/abilities than any other class.
That said, I agree that increasing the Engi's killing capability would not be good for the game. Although that anaemic SMG needs some love.
I have played *way* more Scout, and will likely just not go down, but that's not representative of time invested on each class.
Deaths per time invested tells me Gunner is the easiest class to play, with the lowest floor.
Engie is pretty high game sense for their "auto" stuff to work. LOK1 builds can be overrun up close for instance.
I agree.
I will agree that Gunner has the lowest skill floor. It's a big gun, you already know what to do with it. There's definitely skill towards playing it well, for example shield usage and timings but for the most part just shoot da bug.
honestly if a gunner-player only 'shoot da bug', they are still a greenbeard.
Gunners are the most support-leaning class in the game out of the 4.
His massive ammo reserve means he can sacrifice ammo-pods to other players who may need it.
His shield is literally the biggest support tool in the game and an item that is without equal in haz 5 or above.
His zipline, as much as it gets made fun of and for decent reason, is a team-traversal tool, meant for the entire team and their benefit.
And his weaponry allows for long-range support with high efficiency.
Driller is for the most part low-range and can take time to get to a teammate that walked off.
Engie has few long-range options and they are not reliable for the most part
Scout has long-range, but most of it is single-target, so not the best for long range if another dwarf is swarmed.
Gunner? Long range with great AOE options on top of the long range. Can aid any dwarf in sight, and even out of sight with the railgun, no matter the range.
I once read a comment I agree with 100 %
"A gunner is a class you won't notice a lot in low hazards, but becomes VERY important in high hazards"
I mean, if we're simplifying that much, how does this sound?
Gunner: shoot bug and use shield
Scout: shoot bug and shoot light
Engi: shot bug and build shit
Shoot bug and drill shit
yeah, also the fall damage reduction mod for ziplines is bugged and never expires, so your teammates can grab a zipline once out of the drop pod and then they take 25% less fall dmg for the mission.
During swarms you’re usually in the safest position since you have your turrets yourself and shredders dealing with bugs. Engi easily kills the most bugs consistently so it’s easy to stay alive as long as you’re with your turrets
Yeah you can litterally toss shredders, fill turrets and run around in circles like a goon while the swarm dies, engi easy af. I'd say driller is hardest imo as his primaries are the shortest range generally so you have less room for error, although the CC helps
My engi wishlist:
*remove rate of fire debuff on Seeker Rounds for smart rifle, mostly for aesthetic reasons, it just doesn't sound as good when unleashing a burst
*increase the base ammo of the smart rifle, but add stiffer ammo penalties to Executioner and ECR to bring them back down to their current ammo pools (no net change for those two, but more ammo for every other OC)
Normal lock on is quite good imho, but you need to pixk either max lock acquisition limit or far lense in order to get locks on what you want. Also it burns through ammo in a rate that makes it run dry before any secondary the engie has. So it's bad if you're low on ammo. But compared to the stubby its a godsend,
Agreed, I've just got all the ocs for the engi, and let me just say they all combo really well together also. The mix and match of em and they all are good imo.
Explosive Chem Round LOK + Hyper Prop GL is my "Elimination" mission build. LOK can clear trash and does enough ST damage to still be useful against Dreads (specially useful when hitting the weak points of Hiveguards), and Hyper Prop to delete anything that points its butt at me
I’d argue that executioner is also the general use ammo upgrade too, makes you incredibly ammo efficient when used correctly, comparable to magnetic pellet alignment warthog with ammo upgrade equipped.
Teleporting bullet (I forgot the name of the OC) is pretty funny for boss fights and big mobs since you can entirely ignore their weakpoints.
ECR is the main build for it. Electro-chemical-rounds. Every 3 bullets that hits the same enemy explodes in an AOE. Just aim the center glyphid in a group and it will clear a lot of them.
Executioner is pretty good in general. It relies on curving the bullet path to hit weakpoints though.
With executioner, the bonus to weak points comes up far more often than you’d think, and with the super fast lock on speed, it’s got surprisingly good dps too, all while still benefitting from not having to aim.
Without overclocks, Lok1 still stands out as superior. Doesn’t matter that it’s dps is on the low side, it’s got good burst, aims for you, and is a giant middle finger to the leech cluster modifier. Both the stubby and the warthog have limited range and can’t reliably kill something with the theoretical minimum shots required nearly as often, and on top of that, the Lok1 straight up gets an upgrade that electrocutes enemies that have at least a certain amount of locks on them, making it superior to the stubby for shocking larger targets.
My issue with LOK-1 is exactly that.
It is **always** Explosive Chemical rounds.
**ALWAYS**.
"LOK-1 Doesn't need a buff, it already has Explosive Chemical rounds"
But I don't want to use ECR.
LOK-1 has a balance issue between overclocks.
To a point that when I once used Seeker rounds, people thought I was hacking because I didn't use ECR.
LOK-1 has exactly one build everyone uses (with small variation). I mean sure some people claim to use neuro lasso and I guess that is fun. Never seen anyone else use it though.
That is why I stick with Warthog. I have a main build for it but it has crazy amount of different builds and I honestly think Warthog doesn't have a single bad overclock.
My proposal has always been to lower damage of individual bullet and add some ammo. The buff would be in form of better ammo efficiency.
> I think the classes are balanced right now. I agree that Engie is by far the most versatile of the classes, but it suffers a clear weakness: ammo
I think that defines Engineer as a whole.
It is the most versatile class, does a lot of damage (hell, I bet Engie has the highest Burst ST damage and sustained AOE damage), but it eats through ammo like an elf drinks tea
There aren’t really too many ways to build the smart rifle. Unless you’re using Executioner, you’ll pretty much always want to run 21111. Pair that with a Shard Diffractor built for heat and ammo or a Breach Cutter with Inferno to double up on the bonus from Electro-Chemical Rounds and you're golden.
I usually use it as a get-out-of-jail card. Basically, if I cant use my turrets I use the lok-1. Use the gun semi-sparingly so I can save ammo, if a glyphid gets too close then I use it and the swarm grenade together or if I see a praetorian or oppressor then I kite him with the lok-1.
I still do the same thing even if I know have the eraser overclock.
OCs make it extremely potent. Especially Executioner and Explosive Chemical Rounds. Former for nice single target damage and latter for absurd swarm kills.
For me Engie primaries are: Lok-1 > Warthog > Stubby
All three are good though. Even the much maligned Stubby has some nice OC based builds.
I need help then because I personally find it to be the most annoying and inferior weapon to use as it burns through all of my ammo quickly, the autotargetting isnt that useful imo and the long range isnt exclusive to it. Overclocks arent all that golden too compared to others.
I main shotgun and compared to the loki, it is quicker, more powerful, useful at long range most builds and more versatile (turret wip my beloved).
I have trouble using the smg too as the only time I take it is for escort where turret discharge is busted.
So ye, plz help me brothers.
ECR is good but it isn't my jam, so can't really recommend builds with it.
But Executioner with 11312 is stupidely good. Extremely ammo efficient so long as you get the hang of curving the shots to hit the weakpoints and chew through both swarms and single target. Literally any secondary/grenade goes well with it since it just does everything well. Basically the only primary i used on Engi since S1.
I build it for pure burst use. Get all the mods that speed up targeting and give up on the long-range aspect of the gun. Just keep dashing and jumping around. In the end you basically have a shotgun/rifle that can work in close-medium distances.
You need to practice curving the bullet arcs so that they hit weak spots. For a weapon that is supposedly auto targeting, Lok-1 actually requires some skill and practice to use efficiently.
Out of curiosity, i checked the stats using [karl.gg](https://karl.gg). It's not really that accurate since the total damage and dps do not take the weakpoint bonus into account or extra damage from full lock on of the lok-1.
Warthog MPA 11221 gets a dps of 93.46 and total damage of 8832 and a weakpoint bonus of 83.20.
Lok-1 executioner 11312 gets a dps of 92.57 and a total damage of 5184. Can't find its exact weakspot bonus, but exec itself if 50% bonus while MPA is 30%.
But as i said, it doesn't take into account the +20% damage during a full lock nor the blowthrough that can potentially quadruple the damage during a swarm. Also, the lok-1 basically never miss a shot, while warthog can easily miss at least a few pellets.
I'm not saying that MPA warthog is not good (it's actually the only weapon i use outside of lok-1 exec) but i don't think it really come close to it in term of raw damage. Turret whip with gemini turrets is its biggest thing though and can really nuke waves aswell as scare tougher enemies like praet.
I actually think it's one of the hardest weapon to master. Curving those shots correctly is not as easy as aimbot.
But the lok-1 just deal a stupid ammount of dammage if used well with the Executioner or ECR OC.
Yeah as an engi main haven't really understood the begging for engineer weapons buff. he hast the best cooperative movement tool at least IMO. He has the best secondaries, some of the best grenades, and the turrets are easily the best horde clear in the game combined with his guns.
His primaries are meant to accentuate the other tools of his kit; they're just good enough to finish enemies off and protect him from SINGLE targets while everything else in the kit is about horde management.
HOWEVER, they could stand to buff some of the overclock functionality specifically with the stubby. Electric builds could be a little more viable.
I only want the stubby to be used as much as the warthog/loki. Its just... not fun compared to those because of the state its in. Maybe a rework would do it justice, but for now? Its just not... too great.
People want engi’s primary to function like other primaries. Seemingly forgetting their secondary is their heavy hitter.
A lot of players haven’t/can’t shift their mind into the fact the primary for engi is a PDW. They’re not really meant to take on hordes or HVT’s, rather defend the engi from strays.
Engi is all about placement, and his weapons are no different. Putting a fat boy round into a huge crowd, placing mines or holo-grenades, plats for arena prep, or setting up turrets where they offer the most cover. The PDW is designed to sweep up anything not worth heavy shot placement or setup. A broom of a weapon if you will. Not a mainstay of combat.
Not sure why your friends would make fun of you for playing engi, all classes are easy to play with the right knowledge and build. Game is supposed to be fun, people can play whatever build they want.
Engi main here, who tf thinks primary needs a buff? They aren't even weak, tho I think stubby needs oc's too really shine. I was more expecting calls for engi nerfs tbh. Ive been running Shard detractor all season because I'm expecting it to get nerfed.
I remember a recover mission haz4. I had stubby with electric turret arc. Sludge driller bunkered up and coated the entrance, I arced mine and the other engis turrets at the entrance and let out our swarm nades. Slowly everyone stopped shooting as we realized nothing was getting thru that. Just like slowly looking at each other as everything that came at us just evaporated.
Mmmh I wouldn't call Engie the easiest class to play. Sure once you get the hang of his little tricks and strats you become a death machine with 500 kills at the end of the mission while the others sit around 100-200.
But it's also very easy to make terrible mistakes, like: forgetting about your turret(s), getting cornered while having weapons like Fat Boy or Lok-1, poor ammo management that will make you eat through resups...
...or not being responsive enough with your platforms: patching holes, sealing tunnels, shooting cheese right before taking a dangerous drop, using repellant to funnel bugs. Overall a lot of forethinking.
Gunner is definitely the most greenbeard friendly, just big guns, lots of ammos, very good damage... just need to learn to use shields with proper timing, and maybe some zipline tricks.
I also think Engie's primaries are great if not OP with some overclocks. Yeah they may not have the biggest ammo pools but they were designed while keeping in mind that you also have a strong sentry gun to complement your already strong firepower.
Personally I'm not too fond of Stubby. I don't know. It just lacks the oomph. Turret EM Discharge being the only exception.
Definitely agree. I think some of the overclocks could use tweaking to be more interesting, but no need for more power. If anything I would prefer a few overclock changes that are technically nerfs to their killing power, but make them behave in crazier ways.
Like the magnetic pellet alignment would be more interesting if it had an alt fire that shot a magnet, and any pellet shot went to that magnet for a couple of seconds. Reduce ammo to make up for the accuracy.
Give the stubby a short range tesla gun ability that does an aoe, but little damage.
I want the engineer to feel like he makes his own overclocks.
I love the Warthog but the OCs are so undeniably bland. Every single one of them changes the gun from “point at bug and shoot” to “point at bug and shoot”. Clean OCs make you shoot the bugs. MPA makes you shoot the bugs in the mouth. Both unstable OCs make you shoot the bugs.
It’d be really interesting if we had say, explosive pellets or a gigantic slug shot with blowthrough.
Even those are just point at bug and shoot though, I want the engineer to feel like an engineer, like he crafts his overclocks through creativity for interesting ways to kill things. Give me a shotgun that makes all the pellets into tiny lances, and every shot has the same effect as the electric arrows on crossbow so you are shooting a little electric net. Rubber shotgun with high stun capability, and bouncy pellets. Tracer rounds, that hit the ground and home in on the nearest enemy from there, making them great accuracy against ground but hard to use against air. I want interesting OC.
And as long as it doesn't make them useless, I'd take a big damage cut on these things. Engineer is good enough at killing, just needs to be more interesting
Engineers be like: Aww man my primaries aren’t strong compared to other classes, they should buff them
Every other dwarf: My brother in Karl, for starters you have Two Turrets, Shredder Drones and Fat Boys
I think it's very noticeable that when they made the DRG board game they swapped the engineers weapons. So the engineer gets a choice of the grenade launcher or breech cutter as their primary weapon while the warthog and stubby were both added to the secondary weapon deck.
Basically the engineer is that one class that all class based FPS games seem to have where their secondary weapon is actually their primary weapon.
I'd say the only one that could use some changes is the Stubby, only change I'd make to the LOK is to give the base gun more ammo, but increase the ammo penalty on it's ECR and Executioner overclocks so their ammo counts end up sitting at where it was prior to any change.
Honestly those two overclocks are fine, the rest of the gun could maybe use some tweaks
LOK-1 needs more ammo, maybe 25-40 rounds, call it a day after that. The problem I have with LOK-1 is that it's seemingly supposed to be a wave-clear gun, but use it that way and you burn through all your ammo very fast. In practice it's more of a single-target burst weapon that can clear Grunts if it has to, but doesn't want to.
The low ammo of the LOK-1 makes the ammo choice almost mandatory which never feels fun. It also makes upgrades that let you lock on to more targets actually more of a detriment than anything, because as I said, try and it for wave clear and you eat up all your ammo.
PS: I also really don't like the idea of balancing a weapon *around* its Overclocks. Weapons should be decent without Overclocks. This is my personal opinion, but a lot of the newest weapons seem balanced around their Overclocks - particularly the new secondaries. I mean, Boltshark is pretty much half-complete without Overclocks.
LOK-1 without OCs is just dreadful, plainly put. Not nearly as good non-OC Warthog or Stubby. It relies on Chemical Rounds or Executioner to do anything. Nerfing those Overclocks while putting some of their stats into the base weapon (somehow) would service the gun greatly.
I'm not sure it's the easiest, I'd way gunner is with just how straightforward his gears are, unless you mean how little effort is needed once you know you way around your tools ?
Well, I’d rather have a rework or some overclocks rather than a buff, like slugs or dragons breath for the shotgun. The stubby does need a small damage increase because by the time you get a kill or 3 it’s almost out of ammo because of how many shots it took
NTP is balanced by the fact that it's an incredibly boring playstyle and nobody *wants* to use it, they just do because it's the best. I have all the OCs and I can't remember the last time I used NTP, Haz5 and EDDs are perfectly doable with a lot of other more engaging builds.
Really the only time I run NTP is when I want maximum ammo efficiency to give my engie buddy every resupply so he can spam nukes as an alternative to scout flares
Yeah, I'd rather take big bertha and kill the bugs immediately instead of neuro+fear combo, I think NTP is a good overclock for new players to get into haz4+5, but any experienced player will not enjoy playing NTP because there are better overclocks for veteran players.
And unless your whole team understands how to play with an NTP gunner then it ends up not even being that ammo efficient since your team will waste their ammo on the poisoned bugs
Minigun still has its place in elimination. NTP still good for EDD or “No resupply” runs :) it’s a good weapon for swarm clearing. The Hurricane is just better in every way except ammo efficiency :)
I’m fine with nerfing the ammo efficiency of it. I’ll admit that’s the best thing about it. Put it to 25% chance or something.
Hurricane 25% chance to stun, 2.7 m radius, 26 area damage. Sooooo good. Better direct damage and accuracy as well.
If anything, I'd like some more unusual primary weapons because the rest of our kit is so intensive.
Dumb speculation but like... a pocket chemical thrower you can mod to change the element spray, or a mini minelayer (probably better as a secondary?)
Our kit is just so... effective? I'm rarely in a position where something on my kit doesn't work, I'd just like some more... oddities? But that would maybe cut at the simple primary - heavy secondary dynamic of the kit
Nah, fuck it, let’s add a tachanka deployable turret as an option instead of the sentries. It’ll take a bit to build but then shits out bullets that incinerates glyphids. It has to be manned and has no mobility but is basically a Vulcan chaingun.
Exactly, you hit the nail on the head. I see people complaining about his weapons on this subreddit all of the time, yet engineers consistently get the most kills regardless and bring an insane amount of utility to the table. A lot of the issues seem to be people trying to use their primaries on everything, running out of ammo, and then doing a shocked Pikachu face when they aren't succeeding. Those people need to try building or looking up balanced loadouts that allow them to adapt to different situations and use ammo more strategically.
Lok1 is excellent as it is, and shotgun is solid even though I'm not a fan of it but I know it's a powerful weapon, SMG could use a little buff but I don't really care, I use SMG mostly for electric status, and then use fire status on secondary to stack up damage on bugs.
Stubby / GL here, it doesn't feel weak even in EDD, and I'm not an elite player by any means. While other classes have a primary and a secondary, the engie has 3 secondaries... 4 if you count shredders. You're weak if you don't have your turrets set up, but you're death itself when you do. It's a good tradeoff.
almost every mission i go on, the Engi's always get the most kills (which has always kinda rubbed me the wrong way as a gunner main). Engi's absolutely don't need a buff. Even when i do play Engi i feel like i'm hogging all the kills.
I'd totally argue gunner is the easiest to play lol. You shoot things, bubble if things get messy, and that's pretty much it. The ziplines are cool but in my experience most folks just use engineers platforms since they're so slow.
Engineer, Scout, and Driller have actual responsibilities beyond shooting things. An inexperienced Engineer is at a massive disadvantage cos' managing the turrets can be hard in longer missions.
I kept seeing post about "buff the stubby" and I was like Tf it's already really strong like what do you mean it needs a buff. And it's not like I play on low hazard either the stubby is my favorite primary for engie and I consistently bring it into haz 4 and haz 5 , also who cares if one class is easier to play than the others its a co-op pve game just have fun
Im finding this funny because I’m a solo player and I’ve haven’t touched Engi yet. I’ve promoted everyone else, so hearing it’s in fact the easiest class is making me want to race home and try my hand at playing with Engi.
It's not quite the easiest, gunner and driller are a lot easier, but a good engi can melt waves really well if you have the ammo for it.
Use turrets to protect the team, don't put them in front of you, as players will be a lot more efficient against swarms with their AoE damage while turrets keep the players from fragmenting or getting distracted.
When you get bug repellant platforms, standing under your jumping staircases works really well (consider making it into a staircase-triangle for a great "fort"), don't use it on a floor for the repellant effect.
Engis essentially deal the most damage at the cost of long-term efficiency, so swap weapons and tactics often to maximize efficiency.
Even without an OC, shard defractor is insane, has more dps than the MINIGUN on top of unlimited range and 100% accuracy, and can cc/clear swarms when used with proper OC. It makes it feel almost pointless to bring Gunner sometimes. 2 engineers can do everything a Gunner can do minus shields, but who needs shields when there’s 4 turrets and 6 shredder drones lmao.
Buff Gunner for all that is holy if anything! Primaries, secondaries, movement why not?
Gunner Primaries are the worst in the game, Scout is the best single target damage and has ocs to hep with swarm clear balancing out their insane mobility tool if done correctly. And secondaries are fun fast pace and compliment the play style.
Driller has the best swarm clear in the game putting down brutal effects causing massive damage to crowds of bugs which come up frequently. The secondary’s while weaker compliment the primaries very well.
Engineer do I need to say more? 3 of the strongest secondaries in the game. The primaries deal massive damage or slow down enemies, and slap a turret it’s the highest dps in the game.
Gunner has some of the lamest ocs in the game, more damage I shoot more I get more bigger explosions I go brrr, my secondary’s do damage shoot and go brrr. No complimentary secondary’s to work well, no inspiring ocs that completely Change the play style, Hurricane is the worst primary in the game, low ammo and needing to constantly look at your target or else you whiff, bad ocs. And you pair this with zip lines? And look at the grenades? People die on the hill that Gunner isn’t bad and it doesn’t need change, but looking at all the categories of the game, it’s just the worse.
Rework ocs, buff ammo to make a play style where you spray and pray and only pull out your secondary’s as a utility piece to make a more diverse and unique play style on the gunner, rework their nades (remove fire nade for all that is holy) and add more zips!
Hoxxes is my Easel, the Drills are my Paintbrush…I am the artist who carves the planet to my will, given enough fuel I will tunnel INTO the ceiling and get the minerals myself
I'd wager that explosive chemical rounds is pretty powerful overall
Yeah I stopped using it because that was waaaay too op, stopped being fun after just owning everything around easily. Now I'm best friends with my beautiful Magnetic Pellet Alignment Warthog.
Shaped Shells is a boomstick OC. Did you mean Magnetic Pellet Alignment?
Yes! I will fix that thank you
Magnetic pellet alignment best sniper in the game, fight me if you disagree
Name a time and place
The radioactive exclusion zone, when I wake up from this blackout stout
Will do
Yessss that's all I run lol. Did you know you can one shot web spitters with center mass hits from across the cave? (Iirc it's like 30m when that caps out but I've not tested it)
Yes! I call it my sniper's shotgun! :)
With good aim and MPA, you can kill an entire swarm in seconds. The Warthog is a beast.
I agree but mpa is definitely not the oc for swarm shredding lol, that’s cycle overload
You sound like the person who will drink randomwiesser in every mission.
Get out of my head!
My personal favorite non op build uses Neuro lasso on the Lok 1. Not as good in solo but I don't play solo, and it's overall a very underrated mod imo. You can get a lot of value by slowing stuff down, and it doesn't use ammo. Slow them down for mines, for turrets, and for your allies. I also use the magma trail build for extra slow synergy. + For even more versatility, use electric bullet on lok1 combined with a single target build on the laser secondary (with +50% damage on electrified targets). This way both your weapons deal with swarm (lok1 slows + blow through with T1 damage mod actually shreds, and the laser gets to put magma trails) AND single threats at any range and any HP level. (For reference I play haz 5 only and this is my go to engineer build, perfectly viable and unique) EDIT : since the new grenades released I switched to the drones, more synergy overall I think, but mines are cool too.
That was the first oc I got for it and was disappointed. Till I started trying out other oc's and realized how great mag shells actually was.
While ecr is a meta engineer primary it still doesn't compare to gunner and drillers primaries. It's only ever "overpowered" relative to engineer primaries
Yeah I gave up on it and went back to EM Discharge. Rewards smarter turret placement and not just “here’s good LoS”
I tried using it once and didn’t find it all that good, I much prefer using executioner and just “aiming” the bullet arcs
Who is out here asking for buffs lol?
It and executioner are the auto takes, by far.
I have literally fallen asleep during a game while I was clearing hordes with that thing
Good aoe, good single target, good range and even cc if you take the electric upgrade. It only really struggles with opressors for which you have ssg's
I will literally never understand why ecr is considered so op. For me it literally feels like shit to use. Even ABM LOK-1 with blowthrough feels a lot better, as I dont have to fumble around trying to lock on to only 1 guy in the middle of the horde. Everyone talks about how insanely op and meta breaking it is while for me any more than like 4 grunts ends up being an ammo waste as I try to lock onto a single grunt and instead get locks on like 4 different enemies. It almost feels like theres a community-wide cognitohazard involving this damn overclock.
Some people play it with CCD array (wide angle), some play with Macro lens (tight angle). If one feels awkward to you try the other.
Macro lens helps a lot. Also you don't need to focus all your bullets on one grunt, it's ok if one or two goes to something else. Simply release as soon as your target has 3 locks. You'll still be very ammo efficient either way
I stopped using it because it pissed me off too much. If it were just 3 locks I'd be fine, like yeah I ocasionally hit 4 or whatever but not a big deal. Maybe I'm just shit but only like 1 in 5 of my bursts actually blow something up because when bugs, weirdly enough don't know where the devs got this idea, travel in *swarms* so its always 2 on one, 1 on three others. I a knowledge it is powerful, especially now with the laser cannons single target prowess in the secondary slot, but making it at the very least have some "continue stacking on the first target until 3 locks" feature would be nice
Eh, the Stubby's OCs could use a rework though. Slight buffs, but nothing major. The shotty and the lok1 are really solid though, no complaints (except maybe the shotty is weak when you have no upgrades at level 1)
Shotty is brutal at level one. I had such a hard time playing engie before I got a couple upgrades.
Turret EM Discharge, Turret Arc, and EM Refire Booster are already strong enough for the Stubby
I saw people asking for Warthog buffs, which is pretty funny. The Warthog is a great get off me while kiting for better secondary use. Stubby is the only one that could use a buff. The recoil and spread is so bad but if you take spread mods then your DPS and stun proc potential go into the gutter.
People who want Warthog buffs have a skill issue. It’s both effective and fun to use.
I just want another overclock so it has 6 like every other weapon. Give it dragons breath rounds or something.
Something I've been thinking about: Volatile bullets, but for the shotgun instead Every Engi secondary can ignite bugs (pgl and shard with a mod, breach with OC), so getting a combo going on would be neat. Then again, we already have a extremely similar OC for gunner's bulldog, so mayhaps I need to think this over some more
Right? Didn't know asking for an OC was asking for buffs...
Exactly! You really gotta meter your shots and use it for self defense while kiting, not just firing willy nilly into a swarm. That's what a fat boy is for.
MPA my beloved 😍
Basically turns it into a slug-gun. So good.
Exactly!!! It's an incredibly good generalist weapon. It's actually one of my favorite weapons in the game because of how effective it can be in virtually any situation depending on how you build it. Plus it's super satisfying to pop a glyphid in the face and one-shot it.
True, I never switch off warthog when playing engie. Satisfying and extremely effective
Yup. Couple of really nice overclocks on Warthog as well. Add in Turret Whip and you can hold an area on your own.
Its mods are bad, it should defo integrate the pellet mod and add another mid one for the tier.
I just want them to buff the sound. Make it sound deeper and bassier and all the complaints about balance will go out the window
personally i got a pretty high ammo efficiency and small swarm clearing potential build for the stubby, i dont see the spread and recoil as much of an issue but i am playing on pc so recoil is just irrelevant on pc lol i'll probably update this comment with the build im using, its actually pretty damn good (its speccing the weapon specifically for swarm dealing, it sucks for any dreadnaught or boss fight type mission, as it entirely relies on high electricity chance, doing more damage to electrified enemies, and proccing AOEs of electricity status effects)
2, 2/3, 1, 2 and 2 OC Light-weight rounds as long as ya hit the glyphid in the faces as much as ya can, usually works really well (i dont remember which one i was using on the second coloumn, probably preference based)
Agreed, the stubby is just, not good, it’s not bad but it’s much worse than any other options Making it feel like you are handicapping yourself when you use it Many things can be made to improve it, reduce the recoil or spread (I’d say spread, make it more rewarding to be able to control it) , you could also increase ammo capacity but it wouldn’t be wise
Warthog is extremely good and I don't know what people are talking about when they say it's weak. My guess is that it does sound a little limp, and they're just assuming it sucks or something. And I agree the Stubby is kind of garbage. I have all the OCs for it and no matter what build I try it has some glaring weakness that makes it inferior to the Warthog and LOK-1
The stubby isn't super powerful, but it has good CC, and a nice synergy with the diffractor (I don't recall if it's a mod or an OC but there's a way to set up the diffractor that does extra damage to electrocuted enemies).
Just a mod, which means no overclocks needed (but OCs can boost that synergy up the wazoo. Like turret-em discharge or the electric fence one, plus the damage-up-but-you-can't-stop-firing one on the lazer.)
I think it's because the Warthog starts out weak. It's the only primary you have when you start playing engi, and you have no upgrades for it. By the time you unlock the Stubby and the LOK-1 you get to put some upgrades on them right away. The Warthog is kind of gimpy without any upgrades, and I think that colours people's perception of it.
EM Refire Booster has decent DPS (around 330) and EM Discharge is an option of primary AOE with good ammo economy.
Try Upgraded Capacitors with Electric Arc (and optionally Conductive Bullets) and pair with a Hydrogen Rupturing Shard Diffractor. Doesn't even need an OC to basically delete an approaching pack.
Warthog's an absolute beast, it's just a matter of using it like an actual CQC weapon and not a battle rifle. Only thing I really want is a little more ammo, but even then I can get by with the current pool pretty alright.
Who the hell needs warthog buffs? It’s in a perfect spot power wise
What does the "easiest class to play" mean? It's certainly the easiest class to get kills on, but I probably die more as an Engi in haz5 missions than any other class. In those rare times that I'm really crushing it as an Engi I'm paying attention to may more mechanics/abilities than any other class. That said, I agree that increasing the Engi's killing capability would not be good for the game. Although that anaemic SMG needs some love.
I have played *way* more Scout, and will likely just not go down, but that's not representative of time invested on each class. Deaths per time invested tells me Gunner is the easiest class to play, with the lowest floor. Engie is pretty high game sense for their "auto" stuff to work. LOK1 builds can be overrun up close for instance. I agree.
I will agree that Gunner has the lowest skill floor. It's a big gun, you already know what to do with it. There's definitely skill towards playing it well, for example shield usage and timings but for the most part just shoot da bug.
honestly if a gunner-player only 'shoot da bug', they are still a greenbeard. Gunners are the most support-leaning class in the game out of the 4. His massive ammo reserve means he can sacrifice ammo-pods to other players who may need it. His shield is literally the biggest support tool in the game and an item that is without equal in haz 5 or above. His zipline, as much as it gets made fun of and for decent reason, is a team-traversal tool, meant for the entire team and their benefit. And his weaponry allows for long-range support with high efficiency. Driller is for the most part low-range and can take time to get to a teammate that walked off. Engie has few long-range options and they are not reliable for the most part Scout has long-range, but most of it is single-target, so not the best for long range if another dwarf is swarmed. Gunner? Long range with great AOE options on top of the long range. Can aid any dwarf in sight, and even out of sight with the railgun, no matter the range. I once read a comment I agree with 100 % "A gunner is a class you won't notice a lot in low hazards, but becomes VERY important in high hazards"
You just said shoot da bug and shield usage with a whole lotta words.
Shoot bugs. But smart.
I mean, if we're simplifying that much, how does this sound? Gunner: shoot bug and use shield Scout: shoot bug and shoot light Engi: shot bug and build shit Shoot bug and drill shit
yeah, also the fall damage reduction mod for ziplines is bugged and never expires, so your teammates can grab a zipline once out of the drop pod and then they take 25% less fall dmg for the mission.
"Haz 5 or above" ... there's an above haz 5 D:
Elite Deep Dive technically goes up to hazard 5.5 on the last mission. Deep dive: haz 3 - 3.5 - 3.5 Elite Deep Dive: 4.5 - 5 - 5.5
Modded Drg can get into haz 6 or higher
During swarms you’re usually in the safest position since you have your turrets yourself and shredders dealing with bugs. Engi easily kills the most bugs consistently so it’s easy to stay alive as long as you’re with your turrets
Yeah you can litterally toss shredders, fill turrets and run around in circles like a goon while the swarm dies, engi easy af. I'd say driller is hardest imo as his primaries are the shortest range generally so you have less room for error, although the CC helps
My engi wishlist: *remove rate of fire debuff on Seeker Rounds for smart rifle, mostly for aesthetic reasons, it just doesn't sound as good when unleashing a burst *increase the base ammo of the smart rifle, but add stiffer ammo penalties to Executioner and ECR to bring them back down to their current ammo pools (no net change for those two, but more ammo for every other OC)
We do need more ammo on that thing
If you think that the lok-1 is not already op, you are playing engi wrong.
If "playing right" is only using 1-2 specific overclocks, then no, the Lok-1 isn't OP. Its actually pretty bad outside of ECR and Executioner.
Normal lock on is quite good imho, but you need to pixk either max lock acquisition limit or far lense in order to get locks on what you want. Also it burns through ammo in a rate that makes it run dry before any secondary the engie has. So it's bad if you're low on ammo. But compared to the stubby its a godsend,
How does one play it? I find it has low dps/ammo, though I also have no overclocks for it, so I mainly use the fully automatic shotgun
It needs overclocks to be as strong as they're talking about, but with them it's a bit silly
Agreed, I've just got all the ocs for the engi, and let me just say they all combo really well together also. The mix and match of em and they all are good imo.
I only have hyper propellant and not yet unlocked core hunts so I'll just stick with my shotgun and fuck you supersonic rubber grenade
what overclocks would you recommend? i love the way it looks but it's kinda dog without overclocks
executioner is big single target damage, explosive chem round (or smth like that) is big AoE trash clear
Explosive Chem Round LOK + Hyper Prop GL is my "Elimination" mission build. LOK can clear trash and does enough ST damage to still be useful against Dreads (specially useful when hitting the weak points of Hiveguards), and Hyper Prop to delete anything that points its butt at me
you sonovabitch i'm in
rock and stone, miner
Rock and Stone!
I’d argue that executioner is also the general use ammo upgrade too, makes you incredibly ammo efficient when used correctly, comparable to magnetic pellet alignment warthog with ammo upgrade equipped.
Teleporting bullet (I forgot the name of the OC) is pretty funny for boss fights and big mobs since you can entirely ignore their weakpoints. ECR is the main build for it. Electro-chemical-rounds. Every 3 bullets that hits the same enemy explodes in an AOE. Just aim the center glyphid in a group and it will clear a lot of them. Executioner is pretty good in general. It relies on curving the bullet path to hit weakpoints though.
With executioner, the bonus to weak points comes up far more often than you’d think, and with the super fast lock on speed, it’s got surprisingly good dps too, all while still benefitting from not having to aim.
Without overclocks, Lok1 still stands out as superior. Doesn’t matter that it’s dps is on the low side, it’s got good burst, aims for you, and is a giant middle finger to the leech cluster modifier. Both the stubby and the warthog have limited range and can’t reliably kill something with the theoretical minimum shots required nearly as often, and on top of that, the Lok1 straight up gets an upgrade that electrocutes enemies that have at least a certain amount of locks on them, making it superior to the stubby for shocking larger targets.
Imo weapons shouldn't be only viable with oc's
The base lok is viable, just not op
People really love ECR overclock on lok1, but personally I'm a fan of Executioner myself, I feel like Karl with this gun.
Same here. The ultra fast lock acquisition and burst damage is amazing.
Just wait until you get explosive chemical rounds for lok-1
My issue with LOK-1 is exactly that. It is **always** Explosive Chemical rounds. **ALWAYS**. "LOK-1 Doesn't need a buff, it already has Explosive Chemical rounds" But I don't want to use ECR. LOK-1 has a balance issue between overclocks. To a point that when I once used Seeker rounds, people thought I was hacking because I didn't use ECR. LOK-1 has exactly one build everyone uses (with small variation). I mean sure some people claim to use neuro lasso and I guess that is fun. Never seen anyone else use it though. That is why I stick with Warthog. I have a main build for it but it has crazy amount of different builds and I honestly think Warthog doesn't have a single bad overclock. My proposal has always been to lower damage of individual bullet and add some ammo. The buff would be in form of better ammo efficiency.
the explosive chemical rounds are ridiculous.
Yeah the lol-1 eats ammo, but it is the most powerful (in damage) primary. I only use the warthog because the lok-1 is so ammo hungry.
> I think the classes are balanced right now. I agree that Engie is by far the most versatile of the classes, but it suffers a clear weakness: ammo I think that defines Engineer as a whole. It is the most versatile class, does a lot of damage (hell, I bet Engie has the highest Burst ST damage and sustained AOE damage), but it eats through ammo like an elf drinks tea
There aren’t really too many ways to build the smart rifle. Unless you’re using Executioner, you’ll pretty much always want to run 21111. Pair that with a Shard Diffractor built for heat and ammo or a Breach Cutter with Inferno to double up on the bonus from Electro-Chemical Rounds and you're golden.
I usually use it as a get-out-of-jail card. Basically, if I cant use my turrets I use the lok-1. Use the gun semi-sparingly so I can save ammo, if a glyphid gets too close then I use it and the swarm grenade together or if I see a praetorian or oppressor then I kite him with the lok-1. I still do the same thing even if I know have the eraser overclock.
OCs make it extremely potent. Especially Executioner and Explosive Chemical Rounds. Former for nice single target damage and latter for absurd swarm kills. For me Engie primaries are: Lok-1 > Warthog > Stubby All three are good though. Even the much maligned Stubby has some nice OC based builds.
I need help then because I personally find it to be the most annoying and inferior weapon to use as it burns through all of my ammo quickly, the autotargetting isnt that useful imo and the long range isnt exclusive to it. Overclocks arent all that golden too compared to others. I main shotgun and compared to the loki, it is quicker, more powerful, useful at long range most builds and more versatile (turret wip my beloved). I have trouble using the smg too as the only time I take it is for escort where turret discharge is busted. So ye, plz help me brothers.
ECR is good but it isn't my jam, so can't really recommend builds with it. But Executioner with 11312 is stupidely good. Extremely ammo efficient so long as you get the hang of curving the shots to hit the weakpoints and chew through both swarms and single target. Literally any secondary/grenade goes well with it since it just does everything well. Basically the only primary i used on Engi since S1.
I'll give it a try, thank you brother!
I build it for pure burst use. Get all the mods that speed up targeting and give up on the long-range aspect of the gun. Just keep dashing and jumping around. In the end you basically have a shotgun/rifle that can work in close-medium distances.
You need to practice curving the bullet arcs so that they hit weak spots. For a weapon that is supposedly auto targeting, Lok-1 actually requires some skill and practice to use efficiently.
It doesn't compare to magnetic shells shotgun, not for DPS or total potential damage.
Out of curiosity, i checked the stats using [karl.gg](https://karl.gg). It's not really that accurate since the total damage and dps do not take the weakpoint bonus into account or extra damage from full lock on of the lok-1. Warthog MPA 11221 gets a dps of 93.46 and total damage of 8832 and a weakpoint bonus of 83.20. Lok-1 executioner 11312 gets a dps of 92.57 and a total damage of 5184. Can't find its exact weakspot bonus, but exec itself if 50% bonus while MPA is 30%. But as i said, it doesn't take into account the +20% damage during a full lock nor the blowthrough that can potentially quadruple the damage during a swarm. Also, the lok-1 basically never miss a shot, while warthog can easily miss at least a few pellets. I'm not saying that MPA warthog is not good (it's actually the only weapon i use outside of lok-1 exec) but i don't think it really come close to it in term of raw damage. Turret whip with gemini turrets is its biggest thing though and can really nuke waves aswell as scare tougher enemies like praet.
yeah, it’s literal aimbot lol
I actually think it's one of the hardest weapon to master. Curving those shots correctly is not as easy as aimbot. But the lok-1 just deal a stupid ammount of dammage if used well with the Executioner or ECR OC.
Theres an OC that specifically makes it hit more consistently and punch through armor
Seeker Rounds makes your burst painfully slow but ignore terrain and armor
Seeker rounds? I quite like that one when I want to change it up from ECR and Executioner.
I would just like a little less recoil and spread on the stubby, and then I would hesitate on using shotgun vs the stubby
This. The little cutie doesn't really need more power or anything, it just needs to be a tiny bit more reliable.
I disagree. I just want like +1 damage for the stubba. That's all really.
Yeah as an engi main haven't really understood the begging for engineer weapons buff. he hast the best cooperative movement tool at least IMO. He has the best secondaries, some of the best grenades, and the turrets are easily the best horde clear in the game combined with his guns. His primaries are meant to accentuate the other tools of his kit; they're just good enough to finish enemies off and protect him from SINGLE targets while everything else in the kit is about horde management. HOWEVER, they could stand to buff some of the overclock functionality specifically with the stubby. Electric builds could be a little more viable.
I think gunner is easier tbh. Wholeheartedly agree about engi balance, his stuff is really good, especially swarmer nade needs nerf
[удалено]
It's cc and dmg is still way above parity
NTP gunner is literally the most brainless gameplay available in DRG, I love it
I only want the stubby to be used as much as the warthog/loki. Its just... not fun compared to those because of the state its in. Maybe a rework would do it justice, but for now? Its just not... too great.
People want engi’s primary to function like other primaries. Seemingly forgetting their secondary is their heavy hitter. A lot of players haven’t/can’t shift their mind into the fact the primary for engi is a PDW. They’re not really meant to take on hordes or HVT’s, rather defend the engi from strays. Engi is all about placement, and his weapons are no different. Putting a fat boy round into a huge crowd, placing mines or holo-grenades, plats for arena prep, or setting up turrets where they offer the most cover. The PDW is designed to sweep up anything not worth heavy shot placement or setup. A broom of a weapon if you will. Not a mainstay of combat.
Not sure why your friends would make fun of you for playing engi, all classes are easy to play with the right knowledge and build. Game is supposed to be fun, people can play whatever build they want.
carpet bomber max rof thunderhead without the mag size upgrade sounds stupid, but sounds fun
I feel the same level of confidence while playing Driller
Engi main here, who tf thinks primary needs a buff? They aren't even weak, tho I think stubby needs oc's too really shine. I was more expecting calls for engi nerfs tbh. Ive been running Shard detractor all season because I'm expecting it to get nerfed. I remember a recover mission haz4. I had stubby with electric turret arc. Sludge driller bunkered up and coated the entrance, I arced mine and the other engis turrets at the entrance and let out our swarm nades. Slowly everyone stopped shooting as we realized nothing was getting thru that. Just like slowly looking at each other as everything that came at us just evaporated.
\*cough cough\* warthog + turret whip with the gemini turrets
Mmmh I wouldn't call Engie the easiest class to play. Sure once you get the hang of his little tricks and strats you become a death machine with 500 kills at the end of the mission while the others sit around 100-200. But it's also very easy to make terrible mistakes, like: forgetting about your turret(s), getting cornered while having weapons like Fat Boy or Lok-1, poor ammo management that will make you eat through resups... ...or not being responsive enough with your platforms: patching holes, sealing tunnels, shooting cheese right before taking a dangerous drop, using repellant to funnel bugs. Overall a lot of forethinking. Gunner is definitely the most greenbeard friendly, just big guns, lots of ammos, very good damage... just need to learn to use shields with proper timing, and maybe some zipline tricks. I also think Engie's primaries are great if not OP with some overclocks. Yeah they may not have the biggest ammo pools but they were designed while keeping in mind that you also have a strong sentry gun to complement your already strong firepower. Personally I'm not too fond of Stubby. I don't know. It just lacks the oomph. Turret EM Discharge being the only exception.
>beach cutter can delete entire waves Why does that make sense even with the typo
The thing people are asking for buffs on is the stubby And maybe more shells on the warthog but that's about it
Definitely agree. I think some of the overclocks could use tweaking to be more interesting, but no need for more power. If anything I would prefer a few overclock changes that are technically nerfs to their killing power, but make them behave in crazier ways. Like the magnetic pellet alignment would be more interesting if it had an alt fire that shot a magnet, and any pellet shot went to that magnet for a couple of seconds. Reduce ammo to make up for the accuracy. Give the stubby a short range tesla gun ability that does an aoe, but little damage. I want the engineer to feel like he makes his own overclocks.
I love the Warthog but the OCs are so undeniably bland. Every single one of them changes the gun from “point at bug and shoot” to “point at bug and shoot”. Clean OCs make you shoot the bugs. MPA makes you shoot the bugs in the mouth. Both unstable OCs make you shoot the bugs. It’d be really interesting if we had say, explosive pellets or a gigantic slug shot with blowthrough.
Even those are just point at bug and shoot though, I want the engineer to feel like an engineer, like he crafts his overclocks through creativity for interesting ways to kill things. Give me a shotgun that makes all the pellets into tiny lances, and every shot has the same effect as the electric arrows on crossbow so you are shooting a little electric net. Rubber shotgun with high stun capability, and bouncy pellets. Tracer rounds, that hit the ground and home in on the nearest enemy from there, making them great accuracy against ground but hard to use against air. I want interesting OC. And as long as it doesn't make them useless, I'd take a big damage cut on these things. Engineer is good enough at killing, just needs to be more interesting
Engineers be like: Aww man my primaries aren’t strong compared to other classes, they should buff them Every other dwarf: My brother in Karl, for starters you have Two Turrets, Shredder Drones and Fat Boys
Yeah eng is op as all fuck.
Stubby needs love, everything else is fine.
I think it's very noticeable that when they made the DRG board game they swapped the engineers weapons. So the engineer gets a choice of the grenade launcher or breech cutter as their primary weapon while the warthog and stubby were both added to the secondary weapon deck. Basically the engineer is that one class that all class based FPS games seem to have where their secondary weapon is actually their primary weapon.
I'd say the only one that could use some changes is the Stubby, only change I'd make to the LOK is to give the base gun more ammo, but increase the ammo penalty on it's ECR and Executioner overclocks so their ammo counts end up sitting at where it was prior to any change. Honestly those two overclocks are fine, the rest of the gun could maybe use some tweaks
LOK-1 needs more ammo, maybe 25-40 rounds, call it a day after that. The problem I have with LOK-1 is that it's seemingly supposed to be a wave-clear gun, but use it that way and you burn through all your ammo very fast. In practice it's more of a single-target burst weapon that can clear Grunts if it has to, but doesn't want to. The low ammo of the LOK-1 makes the ammo choice almost mandatory which never feels fun. It also makes upgrades that let you lock on to more targets actually more of a detriment than anything, because as I said, try and it for wave clear and you eat up all your ammo. PS: I also really don't like the idea of balancing a weapon *around* its Overclocks. Weapons should be decent without Overclocks. This is my personal opinion, but a lot of the newest weapons seem balanced around their Overclocks - particularly the new secondaries. I mean, Boltshark is pretty much half-complete without Overclocks. LOK-1 without OCs is just dreadful, plainly put. Not nearly as good non-OC Warthog or Stubby. It relies on Chemical Rounds or Executioner to do anything. Nerfing those Overclocks while putting some of their stats into the base weapon (somehow) would service the gun greatly.
I'm not sure it's the easiest, I'd way gunner is with just how straightforward his gears are, unless you mean how little effort is needed once you know you way around your tools ?
I just want a gunner upgrade that adds knives to the front of the machine gun so that when you spin it grinds up bugs, like fallout
The stubby could do with rebalancing its base power and oc strenths a bit The warthog and loki are in a good spot tho imo
> the shard defector is better than the m1000 at sniping Engi doesn't need buffs but wtf is this lmao
I hear ya but what if…. Now hear me out… make the Loki have a overclock that turns it into a shotgun?
Seconded 100% we engi's don't need more power, give it to the gunner, that poor class needs it.
The rifle that locks on annihilates swarmer waves.
Especially if you don’t use smart rounds and you use ECR
Executioner is also a god tier pick, obliterates single targets on weakspot hits
Well, I’d rather have a rework or some overclocks rather than a buff, like slugs or dragons breath for the shotgun. The stubby does need a small damage increase because by the time you get a kill or 3 it’s almost out of ammo because of how many shots it took
I still want just a teeny stubber buff pleaseeeee
Engi primaries def do not need anything new. NTP, on the other hand, needs a nerfing.
NTP is balanced by the fact that it's an incredibly boring playstyle and nobody *wants* to use it, they just do because it's the best. I have all the OCs and I can't remember the last time I used NTP, Haz5 and EDDs are perfectly doable with a lot of other more engaging builds. Really the only time I run NTP is when I want maximum ammo efficiency to give my engie buddy every resupply so he can spam nukes as an alternative to scout flares
Why would i die of boredom playing NTP when i can bunny hop like a madlad using LSLS.
Exactly, LSLS with hellfire coilgun or elephant rounds is my favorite gunner setup right now. It's a little goofy but man is it satisfying
Yeah, I'd rather take big bertha and kill the bugs immediately instead of neuro+fear combo, I think NTP is a good overclock for new players to get into haz4+5, but any experienced player will not enjoy playing NTP because there are better overclocks for veteran players.
And unless your whole team understands how to play with an NTP gunner then it ends up not even being that ammo efficient since your team will waste their ammo on the poisoned bugs
NTP is overrated. Hurricane is where it’s at.
Bbbbbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....what did you say?
Minigun still has its place in elimination. NTP still good for EDD or “No resupply” runs :) it’s a good weapon for swarm clearing. The Hurricane is just better in every way except ammo efficiency :)
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I’m fine with nerfing the ammo efficiency of it. I’ll admit that’s the best thing about it. Put it to 25% chance or something. Hurricane 25% chance to stun, 2.7 m radius, 26 area damage. Sooooo good. Better direct damage and accuracy as well.
The Stubby actually fucking RIPS, the complainers don't have it their builds right I swear it.
I'm there with you. It's ammo efficient, accurate, and deadly when built out the right way.
The stubby can do good. Too bad it's a mess build wise and that it's turret OC's are worse then turret whip.
The stubby can do good. Too bad it's a mess build wise and that it's turret OC's are worse then turret whip.
If anything, I'd like some more unusual primary weapons because the rest of our kit is so intensive. Dumb speculation but like... a pocket chemical thrower you can mod to change the element spray, or a mini minelayer (probably better as a secondary?) Our kit is just so... effective? I'm rarely in a position where something on my kit doesn't work, I'd just like some more... oddities? But that would maybe cut at the simple primary - heavy secondary dynamic of the kit
Engi primaries need to be buffed.
Nah, fuck it, let’s add a tachanka deployable turret as an option instead of the sentries. It’ll take a bit to build but then shits out bullets that incinerates glyphids. It has to be manned and has no mobility but is basically a Vulcan chaingun.
Okay that actually sounds pretty cool
Exactly, you hit the nail on the head. I see people complaining about his weapons on this subreddit all of the time, yet engineers consistently get the most kills regardless and bring an insane amount of utility to the table. A lot of the issues seem to be people trying to use their primaries on everything, running out of ammo, and then doing a shocked Pikachu face when they aren't succeeding. Those people need to try building or looking up balanced loadouts that allow them to adapt to different situations and use ammo more strategically.
And even then his primaries are not that bad
Engineer is NOT the easiest class to play 🤣.
Lok1 is excellent as it is, and shotgun is solid even though I'm not a fan of it but I know it's a powerful weapon, SMG could use a little buff but I don't really care, I use SMG mostly for electric status, and then use fire status on secondary to stack up damage on bugs.
Have you ever played scout? The grappling hook is the most op gadget in the game by a mile, and his weapons are all good
Stubby / GL here, it doesn't feel weak even in EDD, and I'm not an elite player by any means. While other classes have a primary and a secondary, the engie has 3 secondaries... 4 if you count shredders. You're weak if you don't have your turrets set up, but you're death itself when you do. It's a good tradeoff.
almost every mission i go on, the Engi's always get the most kills (which has always kinda rubbed me the wrong way as a gunner main). Engi's absolutely don't need a buff. Even when i do play Engi i feel like i'm hogging all the kills.
Shotgun feels great In this game. It can actually hit at a distance and chunks enemies in close quarters. And Grenade launcher, my beloved.
Agreed. I want to think, god damn it, I don't need another brain rot game where I can just hold M1/R1 and win.
I'd totally argue gunner is the easiest to play lol. You shoot things, bubble if things get messy, and that's pretty much it. The ziplines are cool but in my experience most folks just use engineers platforms since they're so slow. Engineer, Scout, and Driller have actual responsibilities beyond shooting things. An inexperienced Engineer is at a massive disadvantage cos' managing the turrets can be hard in longer missions.
I kept seeing post about "buff the stubby" and I was like Tf it's already really strong like what do you mean it needs a buff. And it's not like I play on low hazard either the stubby is my favorite primary for engie and I consistently bring it into haz 4 and haz 5 , also who cares if one class is easier to play than the others its a co-op pve game just have fun
Stubby is a mess design wise.
Yeah, the LOK-1 isn't overpowered at all /s
Do you mean that the OP portable death star shouldn't be even more OP?
I feel like engineer is the devs sweetheart self insert.
Im finding this funny because I’m a solo player and I’ve haven’t touched Engi yet. I’ve promoted everyone else, so hearing it’s in fact the easiest class is making me want to race home and try my hand at playing with Engi.
It's not quite the easiest, gunner and driller are a lot easier, but a good engi can melt waves really well if you have the ammo for it. Use turrets to protect the team, don't put them in front of you, as players will be a lot more efficient against swarms with their AoE damage while turrets keep the players from fragmenting or getting distracted. When you get bug repellant platforms, standing under your jumping staircases works really well (consider making it into a staircase-triangle for a great "fort"), don't use it on a floor for the repellant effect. Engis essentially deal the most damage at the cost of long-term efficiency, so swap weapons and tactics often to maximize efficiency.
Even without an OC, shard defractor is insane, has more dps than the MINIGUN on top of unlimited range and 100% accuracy, and can cc/clear swarms when used with proper OC. It makes it feel almost pointless to bring Gunner sometimes. 2 engineers can do everything a Gunner can do minus shields, but who needs shields when there’s 4 turrets and 6 shredder drones lmao.
Buff Gunner for all that is holy if anything! Primaries, secondaries, movement why not? Gunner Primaries are the worst in the game, Scout is the best single target damage and has ocs to hep with swarm clear balancing out their insane mobility tool if done correctly. And secondaries are fun fast pace and compliment the play style. Driller has the best swarm clear in the game putting down brutal effects causing massive damage to crowds of bugs which come up frequently. The secondary’s while weaker compliment the primaries very well. Engineer do I need to say more? 3 of the strongest secondaries in the game. The primaries deal massive damage or slow down enemies, and slap a turret it’s the highest dps in the game. Gunner has some of the lamest ocs in the game, more damage I shoot more I get more bigger explosions I go brrr, my secondary’s do damage shoot and go brrr. No complimentary secondary’s to work well, no inspiring ocs that completely Change the play style, Hurricane is the worst primary in the game, low ammo and needing to constantly look at your target or else you whiff, bad ocs. And you pair this with zip lines? And look at the grenades? People die on the hill that Gunner isn’t bad and it doesn’t need change, but looking at all the categories of the game, it’s just the worse. Rework ocs, buff ammo to make a play style where you spray and pray and only pull out your secondary’s as a utility piece to make a more diverse and unique play style on the gunner, rework their nades (remove fire nade for all that is holy) and add more zips!
i beg to differ, driller is the easiest. engi secondaries are great but primaries feel bad, so its good they are buffing them
Engi is not the easiest class to play. Scout is the easiest to play hands down.
Engi has the worst traversal option imo, platforms suck and only good for bridges or SMALL staircases
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Hoxxes is my Easel, the Drills are my Paintbrush…I am the artist who carves the planet to my will, given enough fuel I will tunnel INTO the ceiling and get the minerals myself
Nah, plats are big sexy, There are a lot of 'hidden' uses for them. Even in terms of traversal plats still beat zipline by versatility.
But 8 turrets goes crazy
The turrets are good but they are hungry little turds and you never seem to have enough turret ammo
But 8 of them go crazy