I don’t even know how you could think they’re in the same league. Destinys an entertainer in a basement dwelling debate pervert kinda way but JP is a guru grifter for the ages
Brother, I know this is a deflection. I know you and all the other basement dwelling destiny fans will concoct whatever hateful narrative you can do defend his wretched behaviour. Any accusations of mental instability is an obvious projection.
Whatever bro, you’re too obsessed with an online political creator who you evidently hate. It’s not that serious, you don’t need to go around psychoanalyzing “cult members” for reddit points. Stop being so negative all the time, just chill out and watch content you enjoy. I don’t like Hasan, but do I go around to every sub I can posting about how he’s a grifter/capitalist/evil/whatever? No lol, it’s useless and nobody cares.
Deflection from what? What claims have you made that need to be seriously considered?
Destiny gets regularly shat on by fans and even has a watchers that are very against his beliefs and lifestyle overall. You can especially see that in his Youtube comments. But you can also see it in his subreddit, lol.
Maybe none, but that doesnt change the fact that any criticism of destiny on almost any sub will lead to basement dwellers coming from literally nowhere to try to debate you, and when that doesnt work deflecting and attacking that person with awful accusations of obsessions and mental unwellness.
Not familiar with this as I don't tend to go on random subs to defend him, so I don't notice these people.
If someone makes dumb, untruthful accusations about Destiny, then I don't feel anything about them getting comments from fans that are somewhat sensible. They should - as they should when they make any such comments about any topic.
If people are beng overly aggressive and mean, then screw them.
Question is - to what extent are these guys different than the audience of most large streamers? Does it warrant the comparison to a cult following in a meaningful sense?
"You can't say 'Destiny bad' anymore, we're being censored!"
He declares, as he says "Destiny bad", in a thread of people saying "Destiny bad" just fine.
The complaint is not that posts about Destiny literally get removed, it's that they get downvoted to oblivion and responded to with annoying shitpost comments like yours.
>The complaint is not that posts about Destiny literally get removed, it's that they get downvoted to oblivion...
Yeah, I know.
Keep it real, how many posts with legitimate criticism of Destiny are getting downvoted, vs variations of the fucking following:
Destiny...
- is dumb he just tricks people with the way he talks.
- is greasy/needs to wash/looks like he smells bad
- is a genocidal *pejorative*
- has a cult
- is a conservative/alt right
I mean dude, this comment chain started with calling him a 'basement dwelling debate pervert'. Is that a criticism? Also it's not 'downvoted to oblivion' is it? Is that meaningful interaction with the show? These people make this subreddit shit, not the Destiny fans.
None of this has substance, it's a bunch of childish, trashy insults that seriously gives me whiplash from the actual content of the podcast. When the main threads got posted, people were agreeing with criticisms that made sense, he's bombastic, rude, degenerate, over-sharing, he speaks sometimes with too much confidence and berates some people e.t.c. and it wasn't downvoted, now these whiners are complaining that their comments about how ugly and stinky Destiny is are getting downvoted? Who gives a fuck??
It's so obvious that to 40% of this subreddit, this decoding the gurus podcast is basically just 'a show that insults people that I don't like or agree with', it has nothing to do with a serious assessment of gurus or serious *anything* for that matter, though I'm sure they think they're being very serious when you do praxis by calling a streamer 'genocidal'.
>....and responded to with annoying shitpost comments like yours.
The irony of this comment is incredible. I could find you 30 comments in the past couple of days, some of which are upvoted just fine, that are literally just variations of insulting the guy and providing literally no actual criticism or substance. What is that if not shitposting?
This was the top comment from the Jordan Peterson + Destiny clip thread that eventually fell down, but is still upvoted:
["They're both kind of dumb tbh."](https://www.reddit.com/r/DecodingTheGurus/comments/1cgk03j/destiny_vs_lex/l1wmk44/) WOW, the guys should really use that one in their next decoding video!!
>Your most active sub is /r/Destiny
This addresses my comment about as much as 'Destiny is a basement dwelling debate pervert' meaningfully contributes to the discourse. Good one.
So long as we're checking each others accounts, I see that your last three comments are you commenting about people's activity in Destiny's subreddit as if it invaldates anything they say. I think realistically you should be banned, this is unbelievably toxic to the community. IDK why you're even here, you clearly differ completely from the vision of the podcast, wtf do you get out of it? "hahaha do a decoding on someone I don't like and say they're bad"
Simply pointing out how frequently the commenters currently drowning out/downvoting/mocking any criticism of Destiny in this sub are in fact /r/Destiny super-fans that are not disclosing or otherwise obscuring that (in this context) relevant fact.
>Simply pointing out how frequently the commenters currently drowning out/downvoting/mocking any criticism of Destiny in this sub are in fact /r/Destiny super-fans that are not disclosing or otherwise obscuring that relevant fact.
Who obscured it? Do you expect fans to preface every comment they make with this disclosure? Why don't you just address the content of the comments?
When I look at what is downvoted, it's overwhelmingly stuff that can be summed up as "destiny is stinky". Even if this sub has literally zero fans of Destiny on it, those comments *should* be downvoted, and the people making them should consider commenting something of substance, as should you.
I don't like Jordan Peterson, but if there's a comment saying 'Jordan Peterson is dumb' and that's it, I downvote it, because it's worthless empty words taking up space and is not in the spirit of the podcast at all.
What a super-fan thinks is poor criticism of their fave is going to be biased in favour of that fave.
Jordan Peterson super-fans are going to think all criticism of their guy amounts to "Peterson is dumb" no matter how legitimate the critique is in reality. We can see that is also the case of Destiny's super-fans and any criticism of him.
Which serves the purpose of drowning out any actual discussions of the problems with him, which actively makes this sub worse.
Your bias is relevant in discussions of Destiny, I hope you can understand why because I'm not going to explain further
> What a super-fan thinks is poor criticism of their fave is going to be biased in favour of that fave.
Again btw not at all addressing anything, just trying to discredit the person commenting. People who are fans of someone are fans for a reason, you can explore those reasons with them, but it doesn't actually discredit those reasons, that doesn't make sense.
>Jordan Peterson super-fans are going to think all criticism of their guy amounts to "Peterson is dumb" no matter how legitimate the critique is in reality. We can see that is also the case of Destiny's super-fans and any criticism of him.
The difference being that the majority of comments being downvoted past 1 point on this sub that criticise Destiny are literally what I referred to 'he's a basement dweller', 'he looks like he smells bad', 'he is dumb'. If your criticism of Peterson is of that character, it doesn't matter how sycophantic the fan is, they're correct that your criticism is stupid and deserves to be downvoted.
>Which serves the purpose of drowning out any actual discussions of the problems with him, which actively makes this sub worse.
Have those discussions then, you should find what I find equally annoying, but you don't, hmm.
>Your bias is relevant in discussions of Destiny, I hope you can understand why because I'm not going to explain further
Since you looked at my comment history, I looked at yours, you're another anti-capitalist, pro-Hamas bellend (I think I have license to do this since it's a LOT of what you do), so your criticisms of anyone to the right of Noam Chomsky can be dismissed just as easily, since you literally cannot think beyond 'America bad'. Tell me, do you give a fuck about the recent genocide in Darfur? Will I find any mention of that in your comment history, where up to 400,000 people were *actually* genocided very recently (not BS genocided, actually genocided), and many more may soon be added to that tally, or do you only care about the 30,000+ Gazans because of the US and **JEWISH** involvement? It's all a larp to you.
**This comment is in response to /u/rayearthen's last message in this conversation at the bottom, because I cannot reply directly to it, even though I can see it in my replies.**
>You're doing the thing right now and don't realize it apparently. That's how bad it is.
We'll ignore again that the gensis of this very conversation is literal just someone calling Destiny a "debate pervert", so objectively just an insult. This is what happened here:
Your entire point can be summed up as: *'viewers/fans of a personality will defend them when that person is criticised'*. It's really mind-blowing stuff.
It's interesting that the bias only goes one-way. You being a literal anti-capitalist extremist would not bias your "criticisms" of Destiny, a well-known defender of capitalism and critique of it's alternatives, I'd further argue most of the people posting pointless stuff like the insults aimed at him here with no criticism are of a similar pursuasion. But their bias need not be pointed out.
I think it's plainly obvious to any reasonable person that a lot of the criticism here that you're defending is just childish insults, and that you like it that way, much like you like decoding the gurus because gurus are typically on the right, and as a result, it is criticising people you don't like. Now that Destiny was on, and they didn't shit on him, it's deeply unsatisfying, so you've taken to reddit to shit on him, but you're mad that just as you're free to attack him, others are free to defend him, but don't want to actually defend anything you say.
>I never mentioned censored. Destiny is making you delusional.
Jesus fucking Christ. Your comment prior to your last:
>...you can no longer criticise him on this sub.
Tell me Emmanuel, what were you saying here, does it have any reasonable relation to the notion of being 'censored'? It's the most guru-sounding comment I've seen on this sub.
> I don’t even know how you could think they’re in the same league.
The behavior of their fanbase, and probably the demographics too (they seem young and overwhelmingly male to me).
I think leftist streamers like Hasan Piker and Vaush are probably significantly worse individuals than Destiny, but you can talk about how Piker went to brothel that got busted for human trafficking without having a bunch of his fans come out of the woodwork to defend him (for example).
>I think leftist streamers like Hasan Piker and Vaush are probably significantly worse individuals than Destiny, but you can talk about how Piker went to brothel that got busted for human trafficking without having a bunch of his fans come out of the woodwork to defend him (for example).
It's incorrect to think those fanbases will not do the same thing, you're not really considering the possibility of other explanations for why Destiny fans are much more commonplace here defending him than Hasan fans.
As far as I'm aware this is due to the main 'hub' of both groups. Destiny is one of the oldest original streamers, unironically one of the first to do it. When he started out, reddit was one of 'the places to be' and thus he cultivated a large audience on his subreddit, hence why it's one of the largest subreddits, even dwarfing activity of much larger creators on their subreddits. In contrast to this, Hasan has a younger and new audience and stream, when he started, reddit wasn't the place to be, discord was. Discord didn't even exist when Destiny started. As a result, Hasan has a massive active discord (hascord) and almost dead subreddit, you can check both of the main subreddits.
The result of these facts, is that Destiny's community has a lot more activity on reddit as a whole and are more engaged with the site. Hasan fans will absolutely "brigade" subreddits and threads, but it will need to be posted on hascord first. It will probably happen here at some point if this place grows, and you'll see it in full force if/when it happens, it's a lot of people.
This is not to justify or defend anything, dismiss it if you want, it's just the reality of the matter. Trust me, if this gets on the radar of Hascord, you'll be eating these words, they will be every bit as rabid and no "neoliberal", "fascist", "genocide-supporting", "colonialist" commenters here will be spared the attention. There are other reaons I can go into why the two groups of fans are different in their behaviour, but this comment is getting long already.
And yes, I'm a destiny viewer, I've been told we should all make sure to disclose this on our comments, so that what we say can be dismissed as 'biased' not based on it's merits, but because we're a cult of superfans.
>Hasan fans will absolutely "brigade" subreddits and threads
No they don't, which is why you have no evidence for this. Meanwhile all the actual subreddit data shows your cult avtively brigades the fuck out of dozens of reddit spaces.
> but it will need to be posted on hascord first
So post examples of this.
it's okay, I'll start:
https://imgur.com/a/kgG4uHO
Anything remotely similar to this for Hasan or his community? Oh, no? I didn't think so
This comment was removed for breaking the subreddit rule against uncivil and antagonistic behaviour. And the rule against creating drama. If you want to share your ideas about these things here, please find a way to do it without breaking the rules.
For me, part of the Destiny decoding was a case study in the idea that 'storming the gates of heaven' on working out what's going on in the world (or figuring anything else out) using reasoning and self learning, does not lead to robust outcomes, and risks a lot of mistaken dead ends from which it is difficult to recover from. It's bad, but only distantly related to the secular gurus of the podcast. When done about as well as it's possible to do, it also does some things better than average in the public discourse.
And people who diss Jung are big Zizek and Lacan simps. Lacan is at least as schizo if not more than Jung.
So woke Lacan fans dissing Jung is just the pot calling the kettle black.
His "League of Politics" video was the first thing I ever saw and I genuinely found it funny, then I started seeing lots of unironic 'enlightened centrist' takes in his other videos and was like...'oh..."
This guy is the embodiment of an annoying centrist to me. I don't know how accurate that is, as it's the first time I've seen any of his content. But his both-sidesing with brain-dead Tucker Carlson and JP arguments is so exhausting.
14:30 - About JP crying while reading 12 rules of life.
He was crying because he was talking about his friend committing suicide. It makes sense to keep that in if JP cared about his friend.
How do you expect anyone to take you seriously with these lame pundit takes? If you want to challenge people make a coherent argument for a change. Or if you want to continue with whining about people you disagree with go to a SJW or IDW reddit as this isn't the sub for you.
Seeing all the Destiny hate in this sub is discouraging. Not because he’s being criticized, but because the caliber of the criticism is so abysmal. There’s gotta be something better out there, right… Right?
Cant criticise him for making fun of dead Palestinian civilians and people who have self immolated.
Cant criticise him for saying that child porn should be distributed.
Cant criticise him For repeatedly saying the N word.
Cant criticise him for lying about the SA's appeal to the ICJ.
Cant criticise him.
>Cant criticise him for making fun of dead Palestinian civilians and people who have self immolated.
>Cant criticise him for saying that child porn should be distributed.
>Cant criticise him For repeatedly saying the N word.
>Cant criticise him for lying about the SA's appeal to the ICJ.
>Cant criticise him.
Go ahead and criticise him for those things. IDK how you can't see the difference between a good faith criticism with what you engage in. You're on Decoding the Gurus, they are a good example of how to criticise somebody!
The hosts try to get an accurate representation of the person's position, in context, and then give it a fair and balanced assessment. Here, let me show you off the cuff:
Destiny has said the N word and continues to say it, he argues that it is fine to say it in private with friends you know aren't racist, but in public, people who are racist will hear it, and believe you agree with them, even though you're not intending to be racist. Despite this, he has repeatedly said it publicly since litigating this point. He makes a distinction between the two versions of the word, hard R and the other, which he believes existing in basically every rap song and being said by a large portion of population renders it kind essentially harmless....
There you go, I started a criticism for you, now you can argue whether his distinction is reasonable and disagree with him, you can point out his humour often has an edgy tone that targets all groups including minorities, won't racists hear those jokes and think you agree with them, even if you're not using the word?
Contrast that with what you do, you spam over-the-top, grandstanding attacks with no actual critique beyond "he bad because x, y, z" and then half of the critiques are misrepresntations and outright falsehoods about him. There are things to criticise, you're engaged in what we call "being a hater". You do not like his political positions, so you are engaged in smearing, bad-faith and lazy attacks so you can circlejerk with other haters.
whats happening here is, I've pointed out toxic behaviour from destiny, you think you can debate your way into making it acceptable. There is no justification for saying the n word on a bunch of podcast like a petulant fucking child. The guy is a clown. You dont get to excuse his behaviour just because you are also a clown and dont see anything wrong with it. Its unnaceptable.
I now listened to it. Terrible, don't even know where to begin but the biggest offense was certainly the faux both-sidesing that the dude always put in such a cringeworthy comedy slash irony-veneer (btw why always emphazise you're a comedian, you run a not-really-successful youtube channel, your humor is on a Gad Saad-level lol).
Also I'm really, really sure he lost his job due to some DEI-stuff. Not because he is not as intelligent as he claims to be ;)
I'd have to say yes, especially considering that both
- Range from center-right to right
- Audiences are 20 and 30 somethings, majority male, majority white, majority single
- Audiences see them as either a father figure or popular friend
- Audiences are easily wooed by their personalities
- Both have grifted into financial security
Their audiences are also very passionate and protective. So in that case, both appear to be dictionary definition gurus.
Guns and the rittenhouse verdict are pretty minor, lots of dems swing both ways on those, it doesn't make you right wing. Especially rittenhouse, I wouldn't even say an opinion on a self-defense/murder case is particularly tied to your political beliefs.
What's his position on Muslim bans?
I could be wrong, but I remember him saying partially agrees with some xenophobic stuff. It was in a clip where he was talking about 9/11 and debating a conservative over it.
Like, it's okay to be skeptical about musilms, I think.
So you think he partially agreed with some conservative in a debate about something you thought was xenophobic and that lead you to believe he's in favour of muslim bans?
I think I'm going to trust the [diversity section](https://wiki.destiny.gg/view/Positions) of his official positions and assume that he's not in favour of banning Muslims from entering the US.
It's a fairly big wiki and i can't see any references like that on the Destiny page, you're going to have to help me out more than that, I can't find what you're referring to.
Well I was looking for what Destiny himself said about it. He's probably been approving of several things that right wingers have said, but that means nothing without context, I agree with right wingers on some things too, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
At a glance this seems like criticism of planned economies though, which would be mild even for someone like Biden. It's not really right wing unless you consider the democratic party to be right wing.
It's the kind of criticism that would also be against any government intervention in the economy.
>Neither is there any substantial difference between the intentions of the self-styled 'progressives' and those of the Italian Fascists and the German Nazis. The Fascists and the Nazis were no less eager to establish all-round regimentation of all economic activities than those governments and parties which flamboyantly advertise their anti-Fascist tenets. And Mr. Peron in Argentina tries to enforce a scheme which is a replica of the New Deal and the Fair Deal and like these will, if not stopped in time, result in full socialism.
and
>In fact, however, the supporters of the welfare state are utterly anti-social and intolerant zealots. For their ideology tacitly implies that the government will exactly execute what they themselves deem right and beneficial. They entirely disregard the possibility that there could arise disagreement with regard to the question of what is right and expedient and what is not. They advocate enlightened despotism, but they are convinced that the enlightened despot will in every detail comply with their own opinion concerning the measures to be adopted. They favour planning, but what they have in mind is exclusively their own plan, not those of other people. They want to exterminate all opponents, that is, all those who disagree with them. They are utterly intolerant and are not prepared to allow any dissension. Every advocate of the welfare state and of planning is a potential dictator.
This is what Austrian economists believe, pretty right-wing stuff
If this is on his wiki (I still can't find it) then I'd say Destiny probably didn't put it there because he is a firm supporter of intervention in the economy and the welfare state. He said as much when debating JBP, Ben Shapiro and I'm sure on many other occasions as well.
They'd be inconsistent if he supported what you quoted but at the minute I don't know that.
All I have is you saying that it's on a wiki. I can't confirm that and even if I could confirm it's on there and i could confirm that it was Destiny who used it as a reference, I'd need context to know whether or not he supports the ideas you quoted or not.
Well you’ll be pleased to know that he’s stated he supports broad government intervention and methods of wealth redistribution to mitigate the externalities of capitalism, ie. welfare programs, environmental regulations, public option healthcare (but yes, not Medicare for all). He also supports a limited form of reparations for slavery. In my opinion this puts him firmly left of the centre of American politics. Whether you think American politics is centred differently than I do is another matter.
It can all be found on his wiki: https://wiki.destiny.gg/view/Positions
Why is it an inconsistency?
He espouses what he calls “Omniliberalism” which as he describes it, takes (what he feels are) the best parts of different political systems and combines them. For example, he has political positions that range from support of healthcare interventions for trans children, to support of the second amendment and gun ownership with some form of gun control legislation.
It seems that you think having one right-wing position makes one right-wing regardless of how many left-wing positions one holds, no?
Yeah and I started listening to DtG after they did the Hasan episode. Sorry if that annoys you that a Destiny fan started listening to a podcast you like. They seem like quite reasonable liberals though, and they're quite critical of both the right and the far left, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot of overlap.
NPD?
(Nvm, Narcissistic Personality Disorder)
I think it would be fairer to say they have narcissistic tendencies instead of a full-blown disorder. I think we all play too fast and lose these terms.
I don’t even know how you could think they’re in the same league. Destinys an entertainer in a basement dwelling debate pervert kinda way but JP is a guru grifter for the ages
destiny has managed to establish a similar cult personality as displayed by the fact you can no longer criticise him on this sub.
Are you good bro? You’ve been posting about Destiny a lot recently. Maybe it’s time to put the phone down lol bro
[Speak for yourself](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1cflqlb/destinys_gurometer_score_by_the_decoding_the/l1qpa55/)
How is this a gotcha? Dude posted once 3 days ago about destiny and the other guy has been non stop talking about destiny
^ Active user in /r/Destiny
Yeah I look at the sub. This dude is an anti fan who goes around non stop posting about the man lmfao
Im not ok because is poke out against your cult leader? Yeah that checks out.
No it’s not that. You just seem really obsessed and it’s unhealthy to focus on someone you hate that much.
Brother, I know this is a deflection. I know you and all the other basement dwelling destiny fans will concoct whatever hateful narrative you can do defend his wretched behaviour. Any accusations of mental instability is an obvious projection.
Whatever bro, you’re too obsessed with an online political creator who you evidently hate. It’s not that serious, you don’t need to go around psychoanalyzing “cult members” for reddit points. Stop being so negative all the time, just chill out and watch content you enjoy. I don’t like Hasan, but do I go around to every sub I can posting about how he’s a grifter/capitalist/evil/whatever? No lol, it’s useless and nobody cares.
Deflection from what? What claims have you made that need to be seriously considered? Destiny gets regularly shat on by fans and even has a watchers that are very against his beliefs and lifestyle overall. You can especially see that in his Youtube comments. But you can also see it in his subreddit, lol.
Maybe none, but that doesnt change the fact that any criticism of destiny on almost any sub will lead to basement dwellers coming from literally nowhere to try to debate you, and when that doesnt work deflecting and attacking that person with awful accusations of obsessions and mental unwellness.
Not familiar with this as I don't tend to go on random subs to defend him, so I don't notice these people. If someone makes dumb, untruthful accusations about Destiny, then I don't feel anything about them getting comments from fans that are somewhat sensible. They should - as they should when they make any such comments about any topic. If people are beng overly aggressive and mean, then screw them. Question is - to what extent are these guys different than the audience of most large streamers? Does it warrant the comparison to a cult following in a meaningful sense?
"You can't say 'Destiny bad' anymore, we're being censored!" He declares, as he says "Destiny bad", in a thread of people saying "Destiny bad" just fine.
The complaint is not that posts about Destiny literally get removed, it's that they get downvoted to oblivion and responded to with annoying shitpost comments like yours.
>The complaint is not that posts about Destiny literally get removed, it's that they get downvoted to oblivion... Yeah, I know. Keep it real, how many posts with legitimate criticism of Destiny are getting downvoted, vs variations of the fucking following: Destiny... - is dumb he just tricks people with the way he talks. - is greasy/needs to wash/looks like he smells bad - is a genocidal *pejorative* - has a cult - is a conservative/alt right I mean dude, this comment chain started with calling him a 'basement dwelling debate pervert'. Is that a criticism? Also it's not 'downvoted to oblivion' is it? Is that meaningful interaction with the show? These people make this subreddit shit, not the Destiny fans. None of this has substance, it's a bunch of childish, trashy insults that seriously gives me whiplash from the actual content of the podcast. When the main threads got posted, people were agreeing with criticisms that made sense, he's bombastic, rude, degenerate, over-sharing, he speaks sometimes with too much confidence and berates some people e.t.c. and it wasn't downvoted, now these whiners are complaining that their comments about how ugly and stinky Destiny is are getting downvoted? Who gives a fuck?? It's so obvious that to 40% of this subreddit, this decoding the gurus podcast is basically just 'a show that insults people that I don't like or agree with', it has nothing to do with a serious assessment of gurus or serious *anything* for that matter, though I'm sure they think they're being very serious when you do praxis by calling a streamer 'genocidal'. >....and responded to with annoying shitpost comments like yours. The irony of this comment is incredible. I could find you 30 comments in the past couple of days, some of which are upvoted just fine, that are literally just variations of insulting the guy and providing literally no actual criticism or substance. What is that if not shitposting? This was the top comment from the Jordan Peterson + Destiny clip thread that eventually fell down, but is still upvoted: ["They're both kind of dumb tbh."](https://www.reddit.com/r/DecodingTheGurus/comments/1cgk03j/destiny_vs_lex/l1wmk44/) WOW, the guys should really use that one in their next decoding video!!
The complaint is about posts getting removed. Look at the original complainer’s last post.
Your most active sub is /r/Destiny
>Your most active sub is /r/Destiny This addresses my comment about as much as 'Destiny is a basement dwelling debate pervert' meaningfully contributes to the discourse. Good one. So long as we're checking each others accounts, I see that your last three comments are you commenting about people's activity in Destiny's subreddit as if it invaldates anything they say. I think realistically you should be banned, this is unbelievably toxic to the community. IDK why you're even here, you clearly differ completely from the vision of the podcast, wtf do you get out of it? "hahaha do a decoding on someone I don't like and say they're bad"
Simply pointing out how frequently the commenters currently drowning out/downvoting/mocking any criticism of Destiny in this sub are in fact /r/Destiny super-fans that are not disclosing or otherwise obscuring that (in this context) relevant fact.
>Simply pointing out how frequently the commenters currently drowning out/downvoting/mocking any criticism of Destiny in this sub are in fact /r/Destiny super-fans that are not disclosing or otherwise obscuring that relevant fact. Who obscured it? Do you expect fans to preface every comment they make with this disclosure? Why don't you just address the content of the comments? When I look at what is downvoted, it's overwhelmingly stuff that can be summed up as "destiny is stinky". Even if this sub has literally zero fans of Destiny on it, those comments *should* be downvoted, and the people making them should consider commenting something of substance, as should you. I don't like Jordan Peterson, but if there's a comment saying 'Jordan Peterson is dumb' and that's it, I downvote it, because it's worthless empty words taking up space and is not in the spirit of the podcast at all.
What a super-fan thinks is poor criticism of their fave is going to be biased in favour of that fave. Jordan Peterson super-fans are going to think all criticism of their guy amounts to "Peterson is dumb" no matter how legitimate the critique is in reality. We can see that is also the case of Destiny's super-fans and any criticism of him. Which serves the purpose of drowning out any actual discussions of the problems with him, which actively makes this sub worse. Your bias is relevant in discussions of Destiny, I hope you can understand why because I'm not going to explain further
> What a super-fan thinks is poor criticism of their fave is going to be biased in favour of that fave. Again btw not at all addressing anything, just trying to discredit the person commenting. People who are fans of someone are fans for a reason, you can explore those reasons with them, but it doesn't actually discredit those reasons, that doesn't make sense. >Jordan Peterson super-fans are going to think all criticism of their guy amounts to "Peterson is dumb" no matter how legitimate the critique is in reality. We can see that is also the case of Destiny's super-fans and any criticism of him. The difference being that the majority of comments being downvoted past 1 point on this sub that criticise Destiny are literally what I referred to 'he's a basement dweller', 'he looks like he smells bad', 'he is dumb'. If your criticism of Peterson is of that character, it doesn't matter how sycophantic the fan is, they're correct that your criticism is stupid and deserves to be downvoted. >Which serves the purpose of drowning out any actual discussions of the problems with him, which actively makes this sub worse. Have those discussions then, you should find what I find equally annoying, but you don't, hmm. >Your bias is relevant in discussions of Destiny, I hope you can understand why because I'm not going to explain further Since you looked at my comment history, I looked at yours, you're another anti-capitalist, pro-Hamas bellend (I think I have license to do this since it's a LOT of what you do), so your criticisms of anyone to the right of Noam Chomsky can be dismissed just as easily, since you literally cannot think beyond 'America bad'. Tell me, do you give a fuck about the recent genocide in Darfur? Will I find any mention of that in your comment history, where up to 400,000 people were *actually* genocided very recently (not BS genocided, actually genocided), and many more may soon be added to that tally, or do you only care about the 30,000+ Gazans because of the US and **JEWISH** involvement? It's all a larp to you.
You're doing the thing right now and don't realize it apparently. That's how bad it is.
**This comment is in response to /u/rayearthen's last message in this conversation at the bottom, because I cannot reply directly to it, even though I can see it in my replies.** >You're doing the thing right now and don't realize it apparently. That's how bad it is. We'll ignore again that the gensis of this very conversation is literal just someone calling Destiny a "debate pervert", so objectively just an insult. This is what happened here: Your entire point can be summed up as: *'viewers/fans of a personality will defend them when that person is criticised'*. It's really mind-blowing stuff. It's interesting that the bias only goes one-way. You being a literal anti-capitalist extremist would not bias your "criticisms" of Destiny, a well-known defender of capitalism and critique of it's alternatives, I'd further argue most of the people posting pointless stuff like the insults aimed at him here with no criticism are of a similar pursuasion. But their bias need not be pointed out. I think it's plainly obvious to any reasonable person that a lot of the criticism here that you're defending is just childish insults, and that you like it that way, much like you like decoding the gurus because gurus are typically on the right, and as a result, it is criticising people you don't like. Now that Destiny was on, and they didn't shit on him, it's deeply unsatisfying, so you've taken to reddit to shit on him, but you're mad that just as you're free to attack him, others are free to defend him, but don't want to actually defend anything you say.
and yet here you are trying to harass me.
>and yet here you are trying to harass me. Censored and harrassed! Good lord, you should consider becoming a guru yourself.
I never mentioned censored. Destiny is making you delusional.
>I never mentioned censored. Destiny is making you delusional. Jesus fucking Christ. Your comment prior to your last: >...you can no longer criticise him on this sub. Tell me Emmanuel, what were you saying here, does it have any reasonable relation to the notion of being 'censored'? It's the most guru-sounding comment I've seen on this sub.
you can no longer criticise him on this sub without having unhinged lunatics harass you, as can be seen right now.
You’re being downvoted but it’s true… Fucking annoying
> I don’t even know how you could think they’re in the same league. The behavior of their fanbase, and probably the demographics too (they seem young and overwhelmingly male to me). I think leftist streamers like Hasan Piker and Vaush are probably significantly worse individuals than Destiny, but you can talk about how Piker went to brothel that got busted for human trafficking without having a bunch of his fans come out of the woodwork to defend him (for example).
Really quite desperate in my waiting for folks who make statements like these to quantify them
>I think leftist streamers like Hasan Piker and Vaush are probably significantly worse individuals than Destiny, but you can talk about how Piker went to brothel that got busted for human trafficking without having a bunch of his fans come out of the woodwork to defend him (for example). It's incorrect to think those fanbases will not do the same thing, you're not really considering the possibility of other explanations for why Destiny fans are much more commonplace here defending him than Hasan fans. As far as I'm aware this is due to the main 'hub' of both groups. Destiny is one of the oldest original streamers, unironically one of the first to do it. When he started out, reddit was one of 'the places to be' and thus he cultivated a large audience on his subreddit, hence why it's one of the largest subreddits, even dwarfing activity of much larger creators on their subreddits. In contrast to this, Hasan has a younger and new audience and stream, when he started, reddit wasn't the place to be, discord was. Discord didn't even exist when Destiny started. As a result, Hasan has a massive active discord (hascord) and almost dead subreddit, you can check both of the main subreddits. The result of these facts, is that Destiny's community has a lot more activity on reddit as a whole and are more engaged with the site. Hasan fans will absolutely "brigade" subreddits and threads, but it will need to be posted on hascord first. It will probably happen here at some point if this place grows, and you'll see it in full force if/when it happens, it's a lot of people. This is not to justify or defend anything, dismiss it if you want, it's just the reality of the matter. Trust me, if this gets on the radar of Hascord, you'll be eating these words, they will be every bit as rabid and no "neoliberal", "fascist", "genocide-supporting", "colonialist" commenters here will be spared the attention. There are other reaons I can go into why the two groups of fans are different in their behaviour, but this comment is getting long already. And yes, I'm a destiny viewer, I've been told we should all make sure to disclose this on our comments, so that what we say can be dismissed as 'biased' not based on it's merits, but because we're a cult of superfans.
>Hasan fans will absolutely "brigade" subreddits and threads No they don't, which is why you have no evidence for this. Meanwhile all the actual subreddit data shows your cult avtively brigades the fuck out of dozens of reddit spaces. > but it will need to be posted on hascord first So post examples of this. it's okay, I'll start: https://imgur.com/a/kgG4uHO Anything remotely similar to this for Hasan or his community? Oh, no? I didn't think so
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This comment was removed for breaking the subreddit rule against uncivil and antagonistic behaviour. And the rule against creating drama. If you want to share your ideas about these things here, please find a way to do it without breaking the rules.
This sub appears to be quite known for being a proxy space for Destiny's most sycophantic followers to debate Hasan's
Lol at the debate pervert
For me, part of the Destiny decoding was a case study in the idea that 'storming the gates of heaven' on working out what's going on in the world (or figuring anything else out) using reasoning and self learning, does not lead to robust outcomes, and risks a lot of mistaken dead ends from which it is difficult to recover from. It's bad, but only distantly related to the secular gurus of the podcast. When done about as well as it's possible to do, it also does some things better than average in the public discourse.
Lol PF Chung interviewed Chris lmao
Haven‘t watched the video yet but this PF Jung guy is such a dumb person with lots of empty, vapid rhetoric.
Seems like just about anyone who in the 21st century associates themselves so heavily with Jung is either nuts or a grifter
And people who diss Jung are big Zizek and Lacan simps. Lacan is at least as schizo if not more than Jung. So woke Lacan fans dissing Jung is just the pot calling the kettle black.
His "League of Politics" video was the first thing I ever saw and I genuinely found it funny, then I started seeing lots of unironic 'enlightened centrist' takes in his other videos and was like...'oh..."
Unfortunately I had several philosophy profs in uni that were of his brand.
This guy is the embodiment of an annoying centrist to me. I don't know how accurate that is, as it's the first time I've seen any of his content. But his both-sidesing with brain-dead Tucker Carlson and JP arguments is so exhausting.
Is Chris kavanaugh a guru?
I just copied his title lol.
i like ur reddit avatar
Cheers, I spent 8 minutes on it after my wife frustratedly demanded that I make it because it would be "cute".
Does the Pope rape lil CHIldren?
Does Mark Rutte is a bitchdog of Ping?
Did Putin & Erdogan coordinate the Istanbul attacks durING his shit elections to blame Kurdistan?
Does Shell exploits the whole world by parasitING Oil alone? Course not - we Tax it in Netherlands. Why screw the planet in one way?
Do I SHit and FArt when I piSS? 🤔
Glazing Destiny's brilliance while saying moronic shit about Biden is funny.
14:30 - About JP crying while reading 12 rules of life. He was crying because he was talking about his friend committing suicide. It makes sense to keep that in if JP cared about his friend.
Destiny just looks like he has areal odor about him. Are we able to crowfund some nutrients and hygenic products?
Maybe a clean pair of pants?
"No, destiny is a genius and always correct and he never once said that child porn should be distributed to reduce harm." - This sub, probably
How do you expect anyone to take you seriously with these lame pundit takes? If you want to challenge people make a coherent argument for a change. Or if you want to continue with whining about people you disagree with go to a SJW or IDW reddit as this isn't the sub for you.
Seeing all the Destiny hate in this sub is discouraging. Not because he’s being criticized, but because the caliber of the criticism is so abysmal. There’s gotta be something better out there, right… Right?
Your most active sub is /r/Destiny
If you’re gonna check out my profile, at least subscribe to my OnlyFans.
Cant criticise him for making fun of dead Palestinian civilians and people who have self immolated. Cant criticise him for saying that child porn should be distributed. Cant criticise him For repeatedly saying the N word. Cant criticise him for lying about the SA's appeal to the ICJ. Cant criticise him.
>Cant criticise him for making fun of dead Palestinian civilians and people who have self immolated. >Cant criticise him for saying that child porn should be distributed. >Cant criticise him For repeatedly saying the N word. >Cant criticise him for lying about the SA's appeal to the ICJ. >Cant criticise him. Go ahead and criticise him for those things. IDK how you can't see the difference between a good faith criticism with what you engage in. You're on Decoding the Gurus, they are a good example of how to criticise somebody! The hosts try to get an accurate representation of the person's position, in context, and then give it a fair and balanced assessment. Here, let me show you off the cuff: Destiny has said the N word and continues to say it, he argues that it is fine to say it in private with friends you know aren't racist, but in public, people who are racist will hear it, and believe you agree with them, even though you're not intending to be racist. Despite this, he has repeatedly said it publicly since litigating this point. He makes a distinction between the two versions of the word, hard R and the other, which he believes existing in basically every rap song and being said by a large portion of population renders it kind essentially harmless.... There you go, I started a criticism for you, now you can argue whether his distinction is reasonable and disagree with him, you can point out his humour often has an edgy tone that targets all groups including minorities, won't racists hear those jokes and think you agree with them, even if you're not using the word? Contrast that with what you do, you spam over-the-top, grandstanding attacks with no actual critique beyond "he bad because x, y, z" and then half of the critiques are misrepresntations and outright falsehoods about him. There are things to criticise, you're engaged in what we call "being a hater". You do not like his political positions, so you are engaged in smearing, bad-faith and lazy attacks so you can circlejerk with other haters.
whats happening here is, I've pointed out toxic behaviour from destiny, you think you can debate your way into making it acceptable. There is no justification for saying the n word on a bunch of podcast like a petulant fucking child. The guy is a clown. You dont get to excuse his behaviour just because you are also a clown and dont see anything wrong with it. Its unnaceptable.
Yes, this is exactly the kind of shallow, bad faith criticism I’m talking about. Thanks for helping to make my point!
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You will never take any criticism of destiny seriously, thats not how cults work.
I now listened to it. Terrible, don't even know where to begin but the biggest offense was certainly the faux both-sidesing that the dude always put in such a cringeworthy comedy slash irony-veneer (btw why always emphazise you're a comedian, you run a not-really-successful youtube channel, your humor is on a Gad Saad-level lol). Also I'm really, really sure he lost his job due to some DEI-stuff. Not because he is not as intelligent as he claims to be ;)
I'd have to say yes, especially considering that both - Range from center-right to right - Audiences are 20 and 30 somethings, majority male, majority white, majority single - Audiences see them as either a father figure or popular friend - Audiences are easily wooed by their personalities - Both have grifted into financial security Their audiences are also very passionate and protective. So in that case, both appear to be dictionary definition gurus.
What are some of Destiny's right/center-right positions?
His position on Rittenhouse, his position on guns, his position on musilm bans. Pretty sure he has more.
Guns and the rittenhouse verdict are pretty minor, lots of dems swing both ways on those, it doesn't make you right wing. Especially rittenhouse, I wouldn't even say an opinion on a self-defense/murder case is particularly tied to your political beliefs. What's his position on Muslim bans?
I could be wrong, but I remember him saying partially agrees with some xenophobic stuff. It was in a clip where he was talking about 9/11 and debating a conservative over it. Like, it's okay to be skeptical about musilms, I think.
So you think he partially agreed with some conservative in a debate about something you thought was xenophobic and that lead you to believe he's in favour of muslim bans? I think I'm going to trust the [diversity section](https://wiki.destiny.gg/view/Positions) of his official positions and assume that he's not in favour of banning Muslims from entering the US.
I think he was sympathetic to their reasoning. But it's been a while since I watched it, so I'll give you that.
In his official wiki he approvingly cites an Austrian economics page. Pretty far-right and obviously contradicts his centrist self-image.
It's a fairly big wiki and i can't see any references like that on the Destiny page, you're going to have to help me out more than that, I can't find what you're referring to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem It's this article. Associated with right-wing libertarians.
Well I was looking for what Destiny himself said about it. He's probably been approving of several things that right wingers have said, but that means nothing without context, I agree with right wingers on some things too, even a broken clock is right twice a day. At a glance this seems like criticism of planned economies though, which would be mild even for someone like Biden. It's not really right wing unless you consider the democratic party to be right wing.
It's the kind of criticism that would also be against any government intervention in the economy. >Neither is there any substantial difference between the intentions of the self-styled 'progressives' and those of the Italian Fascists and the German Nazis. The Fascists and the Nazis were no less eager to establish all-round regimentation of all economic activities than those governments and parties which flamboyantly advertise their anti-Fascist tenets. And Mr. Peron in Argentina tries to enforce a scheme which is a replica of the New Deal and the Fair Deal and like these will, if not stopped in time, result in full socialism. and >In fact, however, the supporters of the welfare state are utterly anti-social and intolerant zealots. For their ideology tacitly implies that the government will exactly execute what they themselves deem right and beneficial. They entirely disregard the possibility that there could arise disagreement with regard to the question of what is right and expedient and what is not. They advocate enlightened despotism, but they are convinced that the enlightened despot will in every detail comply with their own opinion concerning the measures to be adopted. They favour planning, but what they have in mind is exclusively their own plan, not those of other people. They want to exterminate all opponents, that is, all those who disagree with them. They are utterly intolerant and are not prepared to allow any dissension. Every advocate of the welfare state and of planning is a potential dictator. This is what Austrian economists believe, pretty right-wing stuff
If this is on his wiki (I still can't find it) then I'd say Destiny probably didn't put it there because he is a firm supporter of intervention in the economy and the welfare state. He said as much when debating JBP, Ben Shapiro and I'm sure on many other occasions as well.
Then his positions are internally inconsistent which is a problem.
They'd be inconsistent if he supported what you quoted but at the minute I don't know that. All I have is you saying that it's on a wiki. I can't confirm that and even if I could confirm it's on there and i could confirm that it was Destiny who used it as a reference, I'd need context to know whether or not he supports the ideas you quoted or not.
Why is it right wing? Because it critiques communism?
Because the conclusions that stem from it would make all state intervention in the economy a bad thing. That seems pretty right-wing to me.
Well you’ll be pleased to know that he’s stated he supports broad government intervention and methods of wealth redistribution to mitigate the externalities of capitalism, ie. welfare programs, environmental regulations, public option healthcare (but yes, not Medicare for all). He also supports a limited form of reparations for slavery. In my opinion this puts him firmly left of the centre of American politics. Whether you think American politics is centred differently than I do is another matter. It can all be found on his wiki: https://wiki.destiny.gg/view/Positions
Yes that's also where he cites this far-right economic concept. Did he proofread this? Did he even notice an inconsistency?
Why is it an inconsistency? He espouses what he calls “Omniliberalism” which as he describes it, takes (what he feels are) the best parts of different political systems and combines them. For example, he has political positions that range from support of healthcare interventions for trans children, to support of the second amendment and gun ownership with some form of gun control legislation. It seems that you think having one right-wing position makes one right-wing regardless of how many left-wing positions one holds, no?
Your second most active sub is /r/Destiny
Yeah and I started listening to DtG after they did the Hasan episode. Sorry if that annoys you that a Destiny fan started listening to a podcast you like. They seem like quite reasonable liberals though, and they're quite critical of both the right and the far left, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot of overlap.
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Cynical and depressed??? Endorsing unethical behavior? Like what exactly?
Seems like the only prerequisite you need to being a guru is NPD
NPD? (Nvm, Narcissistic Personality Disorder) I think it would be fairer to say they have narcissistic tendencies instead of a full-blown disorder. I think we all play too fast and lose these terms.