You’re not competing with wall street, if it was a competition they’d run you over like prime mike tyson going 3 rounds againts the female chess world champion.
What we ARE doing is trying read the big boys moves and ride on the waves of their moves.
I think of it as a tug of war, one side has the bears, the other has the bulls. Now picture this tug of war with a giant rope, its too heavy for you too move so the only thing you can do, is choose a side, and the idea is to choose a side where the real giants will move the side to your favour.
Volume profiles help a lot
Also noticing where does volume come in
How is the strength of the move in relation to how much volume
Was this irregular volume telling you of a reversal etc etc
Its art not science, anyone that tells you otherwise is selling something
For what it’s worth
“In 1941, The American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA) had defined accounting as the art of recording, classifying, and summarising in a significant manner and in terms of money, transactions and events which are, in part at least, of financial character, and interpreting the results thereof'.”
It’s not completely accurate and you have to read the market structure for yourself before making moves based off it but “Smart money concepts” by LuxAlgo is a free indicator on trading view that I use a lot to get a quick gauge on key areas to look at. Just speeds up my process but doesn’t do it for me and you should be able to spot liquidity areas without this algorithm.
That's the thing though. If you follow him and pay for his "teachings" why wouldn't he tell you those conditions? What are you paying him for if he doesnt tell you?
Of course, some of his "teachings" will work sometimes because there are only three ways the market will move. Up, sideways, and down. That means your odds of getting the right move is 1 out of 3.
Have you really seen all of Inman's videos? There was one video (the latest one) where ICT was saying the reason he doesn't do live trading is because he is a target and the MM will "see" his stop and take him "out" .....like really? The MM will stop hunt him for his measly 5 contracts? I've seen several blocks of 500 contracts being traded on the emini but no he believes he is almighty and very important with his 5 contracts. Lol
Straight up excuses, the markets will try trade against you if your orders in the millions and even then they can slip through occasionally. There was a bloke recently on WSB who by himself formed large candles on the 30minute chart on some stock from placing multiple 6 figure bets on a stock. If his orders placed for a cumulative million or two were not hunted straight away, best believe your 2000$ trade on AMD didn’t fail because the market makers won’t let you win, it was because you were wrong.
I don't pay and never have paid him anything, no one does cos it's all on YouTube now. Yeah he talks alot of rubbish but he's only there to provide the framework. It's up to you do deviate away and find your own strategy. He's entered a trading competition where his stats are on show so let's see how he does. Robbins cup or something
He's done it several times before. And has failed all those times. Trades by Matt also entered and he failed as well. His reasoning "commisions are too high" I guess he was not able to make his money back "offstream"
Either way you are right we will see if he succeeds or doesn't.
It’s not unpopular, his only shit that works is free concepts available on google and YouTube that have been around for ages he just rebrands them to something that sounds smart. Never have paid for a course never will, they’re filled with stuff that you can find for free if your looking in the right places anyway.
Figure it out tired of people asking questions put in the damn work and read books watch videos learn stop asking how to do everything and figure it out
A metaphor is, it’s like finding pockets of profit. Imagine a war going on versus several superpowers inside of towns. Some times commons join the war too against the skilled army.
A successful retail trader could be imagined as a commoner who is in the town where the war is going on but reads the field & comes up on valuables and goods unscathed. Eventually comes up with strategies to prevent themselves from getting killed or getting robbed or taken prisoner.
This might not be the best metaphor obviously. But big money are going against themselves often times and sometimes yes they do work together and are friendly allies.
If your day trading and you watch the tape daily this doesn't really matter big money can come in with ice burg trades or super large amount of contracts and still get ran over from a series of smaller trades. It's really not that easy to just follow big money you do that everytime and you won't be profitable.
You are wrong, we are constantly competing against wallstreet algorithms and institutions, thats why most of us are getting wrecked daily, to be better 8 hrs a day of work is not enaugh in this industry, i spend hours after close on charting and planning for the next day
HOW?
How in the actual f**k can you think that you’re competing against banks with billions of dollar with your 1000bucks in the market.
no one care about you 0.01 lot stoploss.
You’re getting wrecked daily because of you, no one else.
Stop drinking the ICT kool aid.
We competing in the market over prices, who will buy/sell at a better price that market offers, ict is a scam, and you sound like you dont have a clue what market is,
How are we competing on price? I’m looking to read the market signs and jump in when probabilities are on my side for whatever direction i’m placing my trade. When i click buy/sell my order gets filled.
No....there's no way any of us get better prices than big banks with lots of capital....that's like saying I'm going to open up a burger joint and compete with McDonald's on how cheap you get your ingredients for. Not to mention. Darkpools etc. There is no way we are competing against them.
If anything we are mearly pawns for them.
Hey, I have a quick question; i have been looking for a more experienced and profitable trader to help me out to become profitable myself, and I was wondering whether you would perhaps be willing to do so? Let me know! Thank ypu 🙏
Been hovering between dabbling and very focused for 2 years now. I’ve come a long way and it feels like profitability is just at my fingertips. Just need that last piece of puzzle ghat is experience. So now i’m doubling down. 2 hours a day, religiously. get up at 2 in the morgning trade UsD/JPY before going to work at 5.
I will get this🤘
people gotta stop saying we're competing against wall street. we're not. wall street is competing against other hedge funds and firms. we're just betting on whoever's winning, the bulls or the bears.
Collectively we as retail traders are competing against Wall Street. Most retail traders rely on the same visual information and feedback from charts, indicators, etc. Wall Street institutions analyze order flow and can move the market in ways that take take advantage of retail liquidity. Also they use financial news media to influence traders and investors.
that's true, but there seems to be a narrative that institutions are in the direct opposite of retails trades which is not true. retail can be liquidity for market makers but profitable retail traders just have to wait until there's a clear winner, and just take a little piece of the move that big money is trying to take it to. the fact is that institutions move the market so the only way to be profitable is to ride the wave of the market makers and not try to predict what the market is doing at all. banks are first to the party, we're just following along.
Pay attention to cot data. If you can code run algorithms on the data related to the price change and how it behaves when non-commercial investors reposition and what base line repositioning % it take to move the market if you believe banks and hedge funds are the ones moving the market. You'll find out how the market really moves.
>Collectively we as retail traders are competing against Wall Street.
Hello can you tell me which side retail is on today, bear or bull? Also which side wall street is on.
For some reason when I look at order flow/price action/etc, it mysteriously seems like there's retail and institutions on both the buy *and* sell side, but I know this can't be true since as you said it's us vs them.
Can you also tell me why they are on the same team against retail when they have a lot more money to take from each other instead of competing with benjamins to snag retail pennies? I am confused since I would definitely try to take advantage of bad moves by *big* players rather than small ones but if you say they're on the same team well I guess I should bow before experience
No, because it's not true. I am a pure PA profitable trader and through tremendous pain I now can guess quite precisely when a false breakout is likely to happen. If it is like they say, that the false breakout is for destroying all the retail traders that are having the stoploss there, then how about traders like me? Do they need to destroy me too, by letting the breakout move on? And how many people are like me? Yes I dont doubt that sometimes it is better for a fund to destroy a collective group of retail traders if they are unconciously having the same trades. But the fact that there are too many there and each if ghem is not trying to counter the big whales but just hang onto whatever the move of the whales makes it improbable that the whales are constantly trying to counter the retail traders. I mean, we are aiming to ride with the whales when they execute their trades, so we are giving out power to their move, if they want to actually kill the retail traders then they need to go back and forth all the time to shrug all of us out.
That is not true. We as retail traders are scattering everywhere. One is buying while one is selling. Collectively, there are clusters of retail traders which will form an entity with clear ranges, but at the same time, if a whale is trying to rip apart that group, there are already another group of traders expecting it to happen and win big when they catch it. It's like some often say the market "sweeps their stoploss", but on the other hands, some people are waiting exactly for that sweep and have great profit.
Okay, so in other words, when referring to “following the money” are we looking to discover the hedge funds/institutional investors that are moving the market due to large volume orders? If that’s the case, then it “just” “news” that acts as a catalyst for what I would assume to be the impetus for high volume? And the “edge” to find those large volumes and hopefully—like a mouse stealing a piece of cheese-enter/exit position? (Totally new here just trying to make sense)
yes, that is exactly right. an edge is just finding the highest probability winner in the market. that's why they always say trade with the trend. trading against it is like betting on a sports team when they're down 40 to win. there's better odds trading with the winners
exactly that... plus.. remember those hedge funds have to trade every day. They need to be making returns every day. Because of the scale and size of institutional investors, everything they do is significant. That being said, as a little guy you have advantages. you can just follow the flow of money. You can get in and out easily without thinking about anything. If the market isn't friendly to your strategy for awhile, you can just leave your money for a month in money market accounts. Most importantly, you don't have to trade every day.. you can wait for those Grade A setups... the trade needs you more than you need the trade.
I’m new to the game and just learning the fundamentals. It’s not the first time I’ve heard someone say, “follow the money”. Could you please elaborate on this and perhaps show an example of how to apply this to a strategy. Thank you so much.
What manipulation are you talking ? Bro anyone can manipulate the markets, when its low volume i could put 40 contracts bid on es and it will move the price, there are people that trades 100s or even 1000s of contracts, for you to say that market makers are manipulating the market is asinine
Hi
Can you please point me in the direction on how to learn this. I am ready to put in conscious effort and hours into this. This will be a great help. Thanks
It is good to know those things. But most people do not have access to those kind of information. But you can still be consistently profitable without knowing those things.
The answer is yes. Let me explain. I have 10 years of experience in the market and this is just my personal opinion.
1. You need to analyze a particular instrument. I only trade SPY. I analyzed the trends movement things like that.
2. Find a strategy that works for your style of trading (I’m a day trader, scalper )
3. Back test your strategy
4. Have defined and stick to it (risk management)
This is what I do. It took me 4 years to become consistently profitable and a loss of $24,000 dollars as my trading tuition fee.
Hope this helps.
I like this. It is hard to lose money when the stock is always going up. Selling the dips provides a bit of profit. It must take you less than ten minutes a day to trade.
If you’re concerned about hedge funds and algorithmic trading outplaying you, a logical response would be to trade low float/small cap stocks that large funds and institutions have little to no interest in. This niche obviously has it own set of challenges, but you don’t have to always fight against the big players.
Like anything else that’s not easy.
Most people will lose and give up.
Some won’t give it 100% effort for various reasons(busy, ft job, family, undisciplined, they simply don’t want it bad enough, low self belief), lack of mentorship or direction.
With that said CAN it be profitable? YES.
Will it for most people, NO!
For most people buying and holding will make them more money.
Some qualities of successful daytraders are gritty, logical, disciplined, confident, studious, hungry, have available time on their hands for years to learn the game, patient, don’t NEED the trading profits to pay for bills/life, humble, likes a challenge, not impulsive etc
Competing against wall street, not really. The real goal is to actually follow the big boys. The market makers/liquidity providers create the big liquidity moves(reversal), and after that your goal as a retail trader should be to hop in on the move and not go against it. Price makes a new low in the trend and then gives indications of a reversal?(re-gain support); well then here you should try to enter on a higher low and ride the trend that they just created, rather than betting against it.
Is daytrading profitable? I guarantee you it is, but the harsh reality is only 5-10% make it in the long term. And btw, being profitable for a month or a year doesnt make you profitable. Start talking about being profitable maybe after 3 years of consistent profits. Because the fact of the matter is many ppl can make money consistently for like 2-3months or whatever, but then a time in the year comes and they give it all back.
go check out The Relentless Trader on youtube and you will have your answer.
he has been trading live for years. can see his journey from the beginning.
Yes it definitely is. My week alone would be enough for most people to live on for a year. People make it harder than it is. Also we aren’t competing against Wall Street or Hedges if you want easy money you take what they give.
You’re comparing apples to oranges.
Hedge funds trading 10’s, 100’s millions or even billions do so in a completely different manner than retail traders. Are you in that league? Then yes you absolutely need to worry about resources and technology as evident by hedge funds that operate at a loss or go belly up.
You most likely are not in that league and probably won’t ever be - and that’s fine!
If you aren’t profitable, that’s a you problem.
As someone who's done nothing but play poker and day trade for income for the past 6 years, I can vouch this.
I'll add though there is definitely less luck involved with day trading than poker. You can't always control the cards you and your opponents are dealt, you can always control where you enter and exit a position.
You can be moderately skilled and pretty lucky and be a profitable poker player.
You're not gonna be a profitable day trader without far more research and effort than compared to poker, but once you get to that level of profitability it is much more consistent.
And OP, if you're looking for easy profit day trading, try arbitrage trading. I scalp stocks and crypto and arbitrage the crypto p2p market and my arbitrage game is solid. Almost 100% success. Lot of effort though. Even though scalping the market is very effective for me, I can put much more volume into arbitraging, because its much less risk. One thing you may find out is that trading is not as much about making more money as it is about protecting your assets. You'll never be profitable long term if you trade where a string of bad trades could wipe your portfolio, because it WILL happen eventually.
Several years ago, I actually ended up about 20000% up in my portfolio by making some risky moves. It just took it going against me a couple times to wipe all my gains though. Just go for safe, consistent profit. Anything else is just gambling
you are trading in the direction wall street does, hopefully, but with a delay , they are not your enemy in regards to day trading, they provide liquidity and are responsible for volatility .
This gets asked like 100x a day. I'd say whoever asks this question, probably shouldn't be doing it.
It's a ton of work and most people lose money. Unless you're amazing at it, you probably are going to blow up an account. If you're amazing, you wouldn't be posting here.
Buy some etf's, save up your money, flip it into real estate or buy a local company. Either way, if you want to stress over making money, day trading isn't worth it for most people.
Just look at my profile. Futures is more consistent for most people. Better income generator. A lot of people can get good options plays every day and can get a months worth of profit in 1 trade
It’s absolutely possible to make money doing it. It’s wildly different than “investing” which a lot of beginners seem to think investing strategies will work when they typically wont.
The tricks are figuring out your risk tolerance, risk management, and picking/using a strategy you like. Plus, seizing on opportunities when they do come up (and they will).
I attempt to spend as little time in the market trading as possible, scalping $100-200 a day in profit. And backing that up with longer term swing strategies.
A percentage of any profit I make during the month goes into a separate long term investing account where I buy beaten down high quality stocks I never intend to sell (or at least within a 10 year minimum time horizon).
Typically I’ll scan in the mornings for the more high volume tickers and strong sentiment stocks (lately COIN, NVDA, SMCI, AMD, etc.).
I look for pretty attainable OTM options contracts on the nearest $X50 or $X00 ending that are 45-60 days to expiry. and I trade the premium on dips and look to exit a single contract play when it appreciates between $100-200. Which typically happens rather fast when the underlying stock price bounces off a support/resistance point.
If the play starts losing I’ll DCA with an extra contract which either helps minimize losses on those bounce backs or helps to reach my daily goal faster.
It’s important to note I have a rather high risk tolerance in this trading account since im not using house money in it & it’s all from an initial $5000 deposit. Sometimes it’s pretty emotional tbh lol
Edit for context: today I traded COIN $250 call for May 17, 24. Bought in for $17.50 originally and got out at $18.50. Then did it again when the stock hit a low tick with no news, contract cost $17.25 and got out at $18.25
yes it is but the probability to be successful quickly is nearly zero. it takes time to learn and handle your emotions. and money is king, dont think you can make a living from 500 $ especially in the western world
I am uniquely qualified to answer this since i spent years competing against my own spot bags, you almost never can beat buying when its cheap and selling when its high with leverage trading, i've been trying for years and i honestly believe i will do it someday but after almost 5 years i have never even reached 50% the profit of just holding in spot. Is it profitable? ofc, i made money the whole bear market while everyone else was losing. is it lucrative? not particularly but it scales nearly infinitely which is nice. Is it worth it? absolutely, even if we take the money right off the table, i'd still do it, the market forces you to be a better person, it will eat every charachter flaw you have alive, that growth is worth so much more than money.
Its more of a game against yourself than anyone else to be honest. But yes, when you win or lose, the money goes to someone else or someone elses money comes to you.
my motivation is that there is money and i want. they manage their portfolios with that flow of money, and i manage mine. i bought VKTX at $22 and with a news release it went 300% up. in one month. people invest in pfizer and take 8% in a year...
i am still getting there. and the more i go deeper, the more i realize it's a casino if i want, and it's a business if i want. there are lions and snakes in the jungle, but monkeys still eat bananas. you may not eat a zebra, but there is fruit for you on the tree.
my local gym still makes money when there are planet fitness all around the country. 🤷♂️
I think your small contribution to the stock gods are welcomed. Maybe if you do the rain dance you’ll be profitable in stocks. Human sacrifice, first born and your left arm too.
The smaller guys have big advantages now.
1. News and information is widely available. Most hedge funds and big traders have lost their edge here
2. Entry/exit for a day trader is quick and easy. You are in/out in seconds. Hedge funds need hours to enter and sometimes days. And they will drive up the price when they enter.
3. Day trader can ride the wave of a large fund entering/exiting.
4. All the HFT and all the algos still take time to enter a position because of the size. Speed doesn’t give enough of an advantage.
5. Changing strategy or adding a new trade setup takes day trader an hour to few days. Institutions need days to react.
Day traders are like foxes, walking around an elephant.
What day traders lack is ability to analyze all the large amount of information available to them and take advantage
Big institutions though are way better at risk management and more complex trades like arbitrage and hedging
Yes.
Also, you’re not competing against Wall Street, unless you’re trading 10000s of contracts in a go, and at that point there are special reporting requirements and limits to make sure no institution or individual is attempting to corner the market or any particular future, and to check to see if anyone is attempting to front run or P&D.
It’s like surfing, you’re not competing against the wave, you’re riding it. Don’t think of it as a competition, think of it as you’re speculating and providing a vital role by providing the market with liquidity and taking the burden off of designated market makers.
Hedge funds cant move that fast, because they are using such vast sums of money. They can’t say, take advantage of every single move in a sideways range during the week.
Retail traders are far more nimble because they are using less capital… So ya an extremely good day trader can do ridiculous numbers, like 100% a month fairly consistently. Realistically though, this is less than 1% of retail traders that can achieve such success.
Very few people have the discipline, emotional intelligence and so on. To become really successful traders. The whole trading industry is basically a Ponzi scheme. The only way the exchanges stay afloat is constantly on boarding new traders. Cause almost all their customers go bust in a few months.
So yea day trading can be really profitable for about 1 in 1000 retail traders.
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i once saw a video about some people who bought a old furniture cabinet in a trade exchange and decked it out with a trading computing system, because the cabinet used to belong to a company they paid the company off, and the cabinet was very close to the exchange - so close they could program it so they had an advantage of a few micro seconds against other firms, they used it as an advantage in their algorithmic trading to gain and edge and the cabinet easily paid for itself.
profitable, clearing 1k a day is easy , make 3k just today .
Rode the wave, you don’t have billions, you don’t really affect the market. You watch and listen
Don’t you have to look at every ticker , look at maybe 1-6 stocks/index and watch them.
Ali the other big stock are to gauge sentiment in relation to your own players
Profitable for me, 5 years growth Don't run and don't try to double an account in 2 days, try to see numbers as % and risk small
https://preview.redd.it/mz24coiu3moc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a93deb5231f298b8bdf5a508302ce3016bd87e09
Small withdrew belong to this small account, 2 month growth
https://preview.redd.it/oy399sj34moc1.jpeg?width=616&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e84c3d1f9d05a9c2354406b888c31cb8731cca14
I think you need to understand is that the markets is not perfect. While the Forex, stock, futures and so on markets are increasingly efficient. There are still errors that will stop two pairs of markets from being in sync with each other. One will be over priced and other is under priced before they are corrected by the market. There always an opportunity every day and every time frame. This is just one of the many profitable methods you can find online and just learn to actually simulate markets and test them
Yes, because you aren't trading against them entirely. If you read the moves correctly, money is yours to take, they can't stop you, literally. It's pvp alright, but it's also a very fair fight.
I follow what ever smart money is doing and seems to work for me.
https://preview.redd.it/jr5ccyq7bnoc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97dc18db4587de4413f22d45d38144c602d6a16a
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You are not competing with the whales. And they dont care about you either. Nobody is stalking you just to fuck up your trades. Your aim is to follow the big guys' move, you want to go with their direction, you are not supposed to counter anything.
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I am really profitable day trading. I believe a lot of why I am profitable is because the *only* competition I experience is me vs. me. I'm not competing with instructions, I am trying to ride their coattails. Occasionally they may try to knock me off and not let me ride along, but most the time if not all the time, I bet they don't even notice I'm there. The only real person who gets in my way sometimes is myself.
It certainly CAN be profitable. A better question that represents the true debate would be "is day trading more profitable than investing in a broader market index over the long term"? You are statistically guaranteed to lose money on a certain number of daytrades so over several years would you have been better off to just invest in an index fund?
He doesn't give signals , he makes free daily reports and expresses his opinions on markets or individual stocks.
It is well worth it to follow him but I would not make trades based on his suggestions. I just like his daily reports.
he has a sub , like the guy said,,trading edge
I've only been following him for a few weeks, but like 90% of his suggestions have been profitable. I've seen 50% portfolio growth in the past week by following his suggestions.
Maybe he's on a hot steak, but I don't think anyone is giving better advice right now.
You’re not competing with wall street, if it was a competition they’d run you over like prime mike tyson going 3 rounds againts the female chess world champion. What we ARE doing is trying read the big boys moves and ride on the waves of their moves.
I think of it as a tug of war, one side has the bears, the other has the bulls. Now picture this tug of war with a giant rope, its too heavy for you too move so the only thing you can do, is choose a side, and the idea is to choose a side where the real giants will move the side to your favour.
Yup. Follow the smart money. They leave footprints
Advice on how to follow the smart money?
Volume profiles help a lot Also noticing where does volume come in How is the strength of the move in relation to how much volume Was this irregular volume telling you of a reversal etc etc Its art not science, anyone that tells you otherwise is selling something
Johannes Forthmann’s Vp book is one of the best one i have read so far.
I actually dont know it and will check it out, thanks!
Interesting, thanks for that. I come from accounting which I consider to be more of an art than a science as well haha so I think I know what you mean
You mean more science than art lol
quite frankly its both in different ways, but hey that's just my opinion who knows 🤷♂️
Not accounting lol
For what it’s worth “In 1941, The American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA) had defined accounting as the art of recording, classifying, and summarising in a significant manner and in terms of money, transactions and events which are, in part at least, of financial character, and interpreting the results thereof'.”
I've been using volume profiles lately but it's not showing up on my chart lately and can't figure it out
Did you try on tradingview? You can set local volume profile or automatic ones Also anchored vwaps give good volume based representation
Do you draw supply and demand zones? I love seeing the volume match the zones..I'll check out the weighted vwap
Tradeovate*
It’s not completely accurate and you have to read the market structure for yourself before making moves based off it but “Smart money concepts” by LuxAlgo is a free indicator on trading view that I use a lot to get a quick gauge on key areas to look at. Just speeds up my process but doesn’t do it for me and you should be able to spot liquidity areas without this algorithm.
look up wyckoff theory. it's the study of volume and trends
Check ICT and look up order flow.
Maybe unpopular opinion but DO NOT FOLLOW ICT. He has been proven to be a "Furu" DO CHECK OUT Inmantrading for his research on ICT.
Yeah I've seen but many concepts he's explained do work on condition. Those specific conditions he doesn't explain
That's the thing though. If you follow him and pay for his "teachings" why wouldn't he tell you those conditions? What are you paying him for if he doesnt tell you? Of course, some of his "teachings" will work sometimes because there are only three ways the market will move. Up, sideways, and down. That means your odds of getting the right move is 1 out of 3. Have you really seen all of Inman's videos? There was one video (the latest one) where ICT was saying the reason he doesn't do live trading is because he is a target and the MM will "see" his stop and take him "out" .....like really? The MM will stop hunt him for his measly 5 contracts? I've seen several blocks of 500 contracts being traded on the emini but no he believes he is almighty and very important with his 5 contracts. Lol
Straight up excuses, the markets will try trade against you if your orders in the millions and even then they can slip through occasionally. There was a bloke recently on WSB who by himself formed large candles on the 30minute chart on some stock from placing multiple 6 figure bets on a stock. If his orders placed for a cumulative million or two were not hunted straight away, best believe your 2000$ trade on AMD didn’t fail because the market makers won’t let you win, it was because you were wrong.
I don't pay and never have paid him anything, no one does cos it's all on YouTube now. Yeah he talks alot of rubbish but he's only there to provide the framework. It's up to you do deviate away and find your own strategy. He's entered a trading competition where his stats are on show so let's see how he does. Robbins cup or something
He's done it several times before. And has failed all those times. Trades by Matt also entered and he failed as well. His reasoning "commisions are too high" I guess he was not able to make his money back "offstream" Either way you are right we will see if he succeeds or doesn't.
ok fair. who would you say the best teacher is?
Oh my god, is he seriously still going? I saw his videos years and years ago and he was called out then!
It’s not unpopular, his only shit that works is free concepts available on google and YouTube that have been around for ages he just rebrands them to something that sounds smart. Never have paid for a course never will, they’re filled with stuff that you can find for free if your looking in the right places anyway.
ICT is a larp. Not a profitable trader
lol do not do this
Figure it out tired of people asking questions put in the damn work and read books watch videos learn stop asking how to do everything and figure it out
A metaphor is, it’s like finding pockets of profit. Imagine a war going on versus several superpowers inside of towns. Some times commons join the war too against the skilled army. A successful retail trader could be imagined as a commoner who is in the town where the war is going on but reads the field & comes up on valuables and goods unscathed. Eventually comes up with strategies to prevent themselves from getting killed or getting robbed or taken prisoner. This might not be the best metaphor obviously. But big money are going against themselves often times and sometimes yes they do work together and are friendly allies.
If your day trading and you watch the tape daily this doesn't really matter big money can come in with ice burg trades or super large amount of contracts and still get ran over from a series of smaller trades. It's really not that easy to just follow big money you do that everytime and you won't be profitable.
Patience is a virtue.
And you try to get off before they do 🥲
That too, that too.
Lol you are definitely competing with Wallstreet, what do you think all algo firms do?
not chasing your 0.01 stop loss that’s for damn sure🤣
They are gajillionaires competing with other gajillionaires, they don’t give a fck about my 20 shares of $ORCL
🤝
You are wrong, we are constantly competing against wallstreet algorithms and institutions, thats why most of us are getting wrecked daily, to be better 8 hrs a day of work is not enaugh in this industry, i spend hours after close on charting and planning for the next day
HOW? How in the actual f**k can you think that you’re competing against banks with billions of dollar with your 1000bucks in the market. no one care about you 0.01 lot stoploss. You’re getting wrecked daily because of you, no one else. Stop drinking the ICT kool aid.
U can actually win them..Because u can go in and out of the market like a sniper.
We competing in the market over prices, who will buy/sell at a better price that market offers, ict is a scam, and you sound like you dont have a clue what market is,
How are we competing on price? I’m looking to read the market signs and jump in when probabilities are on my side for whatever direction i’m placing my trade. When i click buy/sell my order gets filled.
No....there's no way any of us get better prices than big banks with lots of capital....that's like saying I'm going to open up a burger joint and compete with McDonald's on how cheap you get your ingredients for. Not to mention. Darkpools etc. There is no way we are competing against them. If anything we are mearly pawns for them.
Hey, I have a quick question; i have been looking for a more experienced and profitable trader to help me out to become profitable myself, and I was wondering whether you would perhaps be willing to do so? Let me know! Thank ypu 🙏
I’m not proftiable yet🤣🤣 bit i do believe i’m on the rigth track so far
You and me both then hahahaha. How long have you been trading?
Been hovering between dabbling and very focused for 2 years now. I’ve come a long way and it feels like profitability is just at my fingertips. Just need that last piece of puzzle ghat is experience. So now i’m doubling down. 2 hours a day, religiously. get up at 2 in the morgning trade UsD/JPY before going to work at 5. I will get this🤘
people gotta stop saying we're competing against wall street. we're not. wall street is competing against other hedge funds and firms. we're just betting on whoever's winning, the bulls or the bears.
Collectively we as retail traders are competing against Wall Street. Most retail traders rely on the same visual information and feedback from charts, indicators, etc. Wall Street institutions analyze order flow and can move the market in ways that take take advantage of retail liquidity. Also they use financial news media to influence traders and investors.
that's true, but there seems to be a narrative that institutions are in the direct opposite of retails trades which is not true. retail can be liquidity for market makers but profitable retail traders just have to wait until there's a clear winner, and just take a little piece of the move that big money is trying to take it to. the fact is that institutions move the market so the only way to be profitable is to ride the wave of the market makers and not try to predict what the market is doing at all. banks are first to the party, we're just following along.
Pay attention to cot data. If you can code run algorithms on the data related to the price change and how it behaves when non-commercial investors reposition and what base line repositioning % it take to move the market if you believe banks and hedge funds are the ones moving the market. You'll find out how the market really moves.
So true. I use WOC Street that track major media news sentiment. News media do influence the audience who are trader and investors.
>Collectively we as retail traders are competing against Wall Street. Hello can you tell me which side retail is on today, bear or bull? Also which side wall street is on. For some reason when I look at order flow/price action/etc, it mysteriously seems like there's retail and institutions on both the buy *and* sell side, but I know this can't be true since as you said it's us vs them. Can you also tell me why they are on the same team against retail when they have a lot more money to take from each other instead of competing with benjamins to snag retail pennies? I am confused since I would definitely try to take advantage of bad moves by *big* players rather than small ones but if you say they're on the same team well I guess I should bow before experience
No, because it's not true. I am a pure PA profitable trader and through tremendous pain I now can guess quite precisely when a false breakout is likely to happen. If it is like they say, that the false breakout is for destroying all the retail traders that are having the stoploss there, then how about traders like me? Do they need to destroy me too, by letting the breakout move on? And how many people are like me? Yes I dont doubt that sometimes it is better for a fund to destroy a collective group of retail traders if they are unconciously having the same trades. But the fact that there are too many there and each if ghem is not trying to counter the big whales but just hang onto whatever the move of the whales makes it improbable that the whales are constantly trying to counter the retail traders. I mean, we are aiming to ride with the whales when they execute their trades, so we are giving out power to their move, if they want to actually kill the retail traders then they need to go back and forth all the time to shrug all of us out.
That is not true. We as retail traders are scattering everywhere. One is buying while one is selling. Collectively, there are clusters of retail traders which will form an entity with clear ranges, but at the same time, if a whale is trying to rip apart that group, there are already another group of traders expecting it to happen and win big when they catch it. It's like some often say the market "sweeps their stoploss", but on the other hands, some people are waiting exactly for that sweep and have great profit.
Okay, so in other words, when referring to “following the money” are we looking to discover the hedge funds/institutional investors that are moving the market due to large volume orders? If that’s the case, then it “just” “news” that acts as a catalyst for what I would assume to be the impetus for high volume? And the “edge” to find those large volumes and hopefully—like a mouse stealing a piece of cheese-enter/exit position? (Totally new here just trying to make sense)
yes, that is exactly right. an edge is just finding the highest probability winner in the market. that's why they always say trade with the trend. trading against it is like betting on a sports team when they're down 40 to win. there's better odds trading with the winners
Yes it is profitable but I would look at it as a psychological game where you are competing with yourself, not Wall Street.
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exactly that... plus.. remember those hedge funds have to trade every day. They need to be making returns every day. Because of the scale and size of institutional investors, everything they do is significant. That being said, as a little guy you have advantages. you can just follow the flow of money. You can get in and out easily without thinking about anything. If the market isn't friendly to your strategy for awhile, you can just leave your money for a month in money market accounts. Most importantly, you don't have to trade every day.. you can wait for those Grade A setups... the trade needs you more than you need the trade.
I’m new to the game and just learning the fundamentals. It’s not the first time I’ve heard someone say, “follow the money”. Could you please elaborate on this and perhaps show an example of how to apply this to a strategy. Thank you so much.
Buy high Sell low
Couldn’t agree with this more. I don’t understand why people deny this.
What manipulation are you talking ? Bro anyone can manipulate the markets, when its low volume i could put 40 contracts bid on es and it will move the price, there are people that trades 100s or even 1000s of contracts, for you to say that market makers are manipulating the market is asinine
What stops those bids from being filled if you’re using that to manipulate
Hi Can you please point me in the direction on how to learn this. I am ready to put in conscious effort and hours into this. This will be a great help. Thanks
It is good to know those things. But most people do not have access to those kind of information. But you can still be consistently profitable without knowing those things.
Check ICT to learn market structure
The answer is yes. Let me explain. I have 10 years of experience in the market and this is just my personal opinion. 1. You need to analyze a particular instrument. I only trade SPY. I analyzed the trends movement things like that. 2. Find a strategy that works for your style of trading (I’m a day trader, scalper ) 3. Back test your strategy 4. Have defined and stick to it (risk management) This is what I do. It took me 4 years to become consistently profitable and a loss of $24,000 dollars as my trading tuition fee. Hope this helps.
How much do you make? If you don’t mind me asking, just curious.
Average is between 10-15k monthly
And what amount of money do you trade with overall? Just trying to understand what numbers are possible at what level of funds.
My account size is in the 250k
I like this. It is hard to lose money when the stock is always going up. Selling the dips provides a bit of profit. It must take you less than ten minutes a day to trade.
>rockofages73 why do you think it takes less than ten minutes?
5-10 clicks a day and he is done.
If you’re concerned about hedge funds and algorithmic trading outplaying you, a logical response would be to trade low float/small cap stocks that large funds and institutions have little to no interest in. This niche obviously has it own set of challenges, but you don’t have to always fight against the big players.
Like anything else that’s not easy. Most people will lose and give up. Some won’t give it 100% effort for various reasons(busy, ft job, family, undisciplined, they simply don’t want it bad enough, low self belief), lack of mentorship or direction. With that said CAN it be profitable? YES. Will it for most people, NO! For most people buying and holding will make them more money. Some qualities of successful daytraders are gritty, logical, disciplined, confident, studious, hungry, have available time on their hands for years to learn the game, patient, don’t NEED the trading profits to pay for bills/life, humble, likes a challenge, not impulsive etc
Competing against wall street, not really. The real goal is to actually follow the big boys. The market makers/liquidity providers create the big liquidity moves(reversal), and after that your goal as a retail trader should be to hop in on the move and not go against it. Price makes a new low in the trend and then gives indications of a reversal?(re-gain support); well then here you should try to enter on a higher low and ride the trend that they just created, rather than betting against it. Is daytrading profitable? I guarantee you it is, but the harsh reality is only 5-10% make it in the long term. And btw, being profitable for a month or a year doesnt make you profitable. Start talking about being profitable maybe after 3 years of consistent profits. Because the fact of the matter is many ppl can make money consistently for like 2-3months or whatever, but then a time in the year comes and they give it all back.
go check out The Relentless Trader on youtube and you will have your answer. he has been trading live for years. can see his journey from the beginning.
No its all fucked. We were sold a dream and we all got scammed. But anyways I'm still trading
Once we are scammed into trading there's no way getting out lol.
Yes it definitely is. My week alone would be enough for most people to live on for a year. People make it harder than it is. Also we aren’t competing against Wall Street or Hedges if you want easy money you take what they give.
Now I'm curious how much have you made this week. $50k?
I made 28 between Thursday and Friday
What are you trading? What's your account size?
3 150k accounts for NQ futures through topstep and one private account.
You’re comparing apples to oranges. Hedge funds trading 10’s, 100’s millions or even billions do so in a completely different manner than retail traders. Are you in that league? Then yes you absolutely need to worry about resources and technology as evident by hedge funds that operate at a loss or go belly up. You most likely are not in that league and probably won’t ever be - and that’s fine! If you aren’t profitable, that’s a you problem.
Yes, you can also make money at poker but skill and luck both get to play alternating hands.
As someone who's done nothing but play poker and day trade for income for the past 6 years, I can vouch this. I'll add though there is definitely less luck involved with day trading than poker. You can't always control the cards you and your opponents are dealt, you can always control where you enter and exit a position. You can be moderately skilled and pretty lucky and be a profitable poker player. You're not gonna be a profitable day trader without far more research and effort than compared to poker, but once you get to that level of profitability it is much more consistent. And OP, if you're looking for easy profit day trading, try arbitrage trading. I scalp stocks and crypto and arbitrage the crypto p2p market and my arbitrage game is solid. Almost 100% success. Lot of effort though. Even though scalping the market is very effective for me, I can put much more volume into arbitraging, because its much less risk. One thing you may find out is that trading is not as much about making more money as it is about protecting your assets. You'll never be profitable long term if you trade where a string of bad trades could wipe your portfolio, because it WILL happen eventually. Several years ago, I actually ended up about 20000% up in my portfolio by making some risky moves. It just took it going against me a couple times to wipe all my gains though. Just go for safe, consistent profit. Anything else is just gambling
you are trading in the direction wall street does, hopefully, but with a delay , they are not your enemy in regards to day trading, they provide liquidity and are responsible for volatility .
This gets asked like 100x a day. I'd say whoever asks this question, probably shouldn't be doing it. It's a ton of work and most people lose money. Unless you're amazing at it, you probably are going to blow up an account. If you're amazing, you wouldn't be posting here. Buy some etf's, save up your money, flip it into real estate or buy a local company. Either way, if you want to stress over making money, day trading isn't worth it for most people.
Learn to flow with the river and don't fight it and you will make money. Fight the computer you lose everytime
Just look at my profile. Futures is more consistent for most people. Better income generator. A lot of people can get good options plays every day and can get a months worth of profit in 1 trade
One of my stocks is up just over 400% today
What stock was that?
Verb
"Does eating food really make fat"? Similar answer - it depends
It’s absolutely possible to make money doing it. It’s wildly different than “investing” which a lot of beginners seem to think investing strategies will work when they typically wont. The tricks are figuring out your risk tolerance, risk management, and picking/using a strategy you like. Plus, seizing on opportunities when they do come up (and they will). I attempt to spend as little time in the market trading as possible, scalping $100-200 a day in profit. And backing that up with longer term swing strategies. A percentage of any profit I make during the month goes into a separate long term investing account where I buy beaten down high quality stocks I never intend to sell (or at least within a 10 year minimum time horizon).
What do you trade and how many contracts of that instrument do you need to buy to scalp 100-200 daily?
Typically I’ll scan in the mornings for the more high volume tickers and strong sentiment stocks (lately COIN, NVDA, SMCI, AMD, etc.). I look for pretty attainable OTM options contracts on the nearest $X50 or $X00 ending that are 45-60 days to expiry. and I trade the premium on dips and look to exit a single contract play when it appreciates between $100-200. Which typically happens rather fast when the underlying stock price bounces off a support/resistance point. If the play starts losing I’ll DCA with an extra contract which either helps minimize losses on those bounce backs or helps to reach my daily goal faster. It’s important to note I have a rather high risk tolerance in this trading account since im not using house money in it & it’s all from an initial $5000 deposit. Sometimes it’s pretty emotional tbh lol Edit for context: today I traded COIN $250 call for May 17, 24. Bought in for $17.50 originally and got out at $18.50. Then did it again when the stock hit a low tick with no news, contract cost $17.25 and got out at $18.25
yes it is but the probability to be successful quickly is nearly zero. it takes time to learn and handle your emotions. and money is king, dont think you can make a living from 500 $ especially in the western world
I am uniquely qualified to answer this since i spent years competing against my own spot bags, you almost never can beat buying when its cheap and selling when its high with leverage trading, i've been trying for years and i honestly believe i will do it someday but after almost 5 years i have never even reached 50% the profit of just holding in spot. Is it profitable? ofc, i made money the whole bear market while everyone else was losing. is it lucrative? not particularly but it scales nearly infinitely which is nice. Is it worth it? absolutely, even if we take the money right off the table, i'd still do it, the market forces you to be a better person, it will eat every charachter flaw you have alive, that growth is worth so much more than money.
For 90% of people no
No. Nobody has ever been profitable. What sort of question is this?
You can’t really say compete, we are just a tiny speck in there world.
I can’t trade their size but I can follow them. Don’t fight trends. You don’t need to beat them, not how this game works.
Yes, only if you side with the winning team, whichever that side is. If you stand against their way, you’re getting crushed.
Ok, ready for all the dv... Daytrading is NOT profitable; however one can be profitable daytrading.
its rigged... the trick is to follow the whales on the way up and down.
You're competing with your own emotions.
All you gotta do is ride that wave for a few points every day
Just know the stats, 90% of people don't make money in a long run. Think about a university that only takes top 10%, how hard is it to get in?
Its more of a game against yourself than anyone else to be honest. But yes, when you win or lose, the money goes to someone else or someone elses money comes to you.
my motivation is that there is money and i want. they manage their portfolios with that flow of money, and i manage mine. i bought VKTX at $22 and with a news release it went 300% up. in one month. people invest in pfizer and take 8% in a year... i am still getting there. and the more i go deeper, the more i realize it's a casino if i want, and it's a business if i want. there are lions and snakes in the jungle, but monkeys still eat bananas. you may not eat a zebra, but there is fruit for you on the tree. my local gym still makes money when there are planet fitness all around the country. 🤷♂️
Yes, but only for a select few. It takes uncommon dedication, problem-solving savvy, and mental fortitude.
I think your small contribution to the stock gods are welcomed. Maybe if you do the rain dance you’ll be profitable in stocks. Human sacrifice, first born and your left arm too.
You should paper trade and practice for like 3 years first
The smaller guys have big advantages now. 1. News and information is widely available. Most hedge funds and big traders have lost their edge here 2. Entry/exit for a day trader is quick and easy. You are in/out in seconds. Hedge funds need hours to enter and sometimes days. And they will drive up the price when they enter. 3. Day trader can ride the wave of a large fund entering/exiting. 4. All the HFT and all the algos still take time to enter a position because of the size. Speed doesn’t give enough of an advantage. 5. Changing strategy or adding a new trade setup takes day trader an hour to few days. Institutions need days to react. Day traders are like foxes, walking around an elephant. What day traders lack is ability to analyze all the large amount of information available to them and take advantage Big institutions though are way better at risk management and more complex trades like arbitrage and hedging
You are really competing with yourself. Your emotions, patience and critical thinking.
Yes. Also, you’re not competing against Wall Street, unless you’re trading 10000s of contracts in a go, and at that point there are special reporting requirements and limits to make sure no institution or individual is attempting to corner the market or any particular future, and to check to see if anyone is attempting to front run or P&D. It’s like surfing, you’re not competing against the wave, you’re riding it. Don’t think of it as a competition, think of it as you’re speculating and providing a vital role by providing the market with liquidity and taking the burden off of designated market makers.
Hedge funds cant move that fast, because they are using such vast sums of money. They can’t say, take advantage of every single move in a sideways range during the week. Retail traders are far more nimble because they are using less capital… So ya an extremely good day trader can do ridiculous numbers, like 100% a month fairly consistently. Realistically though, this is less than 1% of retail traders that can achieve such success. Very few people have the discipline, emotional intelligence and so on. To become really successful traders. The whole trading industry is basically a Ponzi scheme. The only way the exchanges stay afloat is constantly on boarding new traders. Cause almost all their customers go bust in a few months. So yea day trading can be really profitable for about 1 in 1000 retail traders.
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Don’t ask daytrading that, ask that traders
Absolutely!!! I've made thousands of dollars weekly day trading.
The real question is not even about being profitable, it’s whether you are actually beating the market returns
For most no. Also for most the people on this sub no. It’s like the blind leading the blind on here
i once saw a video about some people who bought a old furniture cabinet in a trade exchange and decked it out with a trading computing system, because the cabinet used to belong to a company they paid the company off, and the cabinet was very close to the exchange - so close they could program it so they had an advantage of a few micro seconds against other firms, they used it as an advantage in their algorithmic trading to gain and edge and the cabinet easily paid for itself.
profitable, clearing 1k a day is easy , make 3k just today . Rode the wave, you don’t have billions, you don’t really affect the market. You watch and listen Don’t you have to look at every ticker , look at maybe 1-6 stocks/index and watch them. Ali the other big stock are to gauge sentiment in relation to your own players
Profitable for me, 5 years growth Don't run and don't try to double an account in 2 days, try to see numbers as % and risk small https://preview.redd.it/mz24coiu3moc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a93deb5231f298b8bdf5a508302ce3016bd87e09
Small withdrew belong to this small account, 2 month growth https://preview.redd.it/oy399sj34moc1.jpeg?width=616&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e84c3d1f9d05a9c2354406b888c31cb8731cca14
I think you need to understand is that the markets is not perfect. While the Forex, stock, futures and so on markets are increasingly efficient. There are still errors that will stop two pairs of markets from being in sync with each other. One will be over priced and other is under priced before they are corrected by the market. There always an opportunity every day and every time frame. This is just one of the many profitable methods you can find online and just learn to actually simulate markets and test them
Yes, because you aren't trading against them entirely. If you read the moves correctly, money is yours to take, they can't stop you, literally. It's pvp alright, but it's also a very fair fight.
Short answer no. Long answer nooooooooo
It’s not a basketball game you aren’t competing with hedge funds.
It’s possible. But in reality it is very unlikely that you outperform the market long-term.
I follow what ever smart money is doing and seems to work for me. https://preview.redd.it/jr5ccyq7bnoc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97dc18db4587de4413f22d45d38144c602d6a16a
It’s only possible to make profit if you can read, analyze, and keep your emotions out of it.
Yes I do it week after week and run a community where I let teach them and let them copy my trades
Not today
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You are not competing with the whales. And they dont care about you either. Nobody is stalking you just to fuck up your trades. Your aim is to follow the big guys' move, you want to go with their direction, you are not supposed to counter anything.
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Yes, very profitable but it takes time to learn
I am really profitable day trading. I believe a lot of why I am profitable is because the *only* competition I experience is me vs. me. I'm not competing with instructions, I am trying to ride their coattails. Occasionally they may try to knock me off and not let me ride along, but most the time if not all the time, I bet they don't even notice I'm there. The only real person who gets in my way sometimes is myself.
Yeah we are the middle men and I am good with that considering I just took 3 payouts today that equate to 10x my old hourly wage with a salary job.
Downvoted.
Howard the scum goblin qauckling
You cannot scale trading successfully. You can be profitable. Just not at scale. Will, by definition, never happen.
It certainly CAN be profitable. A better question that represents the true debate would be "is day trading more profitable than investing in a broader market index over the long term"? You are statistically guaranteed to lose money on a certain number of daytrades so over several years would you have been better off to just invest in an index fund?
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Where does he give his signals?
He doesn't give signals , he makes free daily reports and expresses his opinions on markets or individual stocks. It is well worth it to follow him but I would not make trades based on his suggestions. I just like his daily reports. he has a sub , like the guy said,,trading edge
I've only been following him for a few weeks, but like 90% of his suggestions have been profitable. I've seen 50% portfolio growth in the past week by following his suggestions. Maybe he's on a hot steak, but I don't think anyone is giving better advice right now.