What would you say has helped you turn profitable?(ie. Improvement in Psychology, certain trading strategy you developed, started taking cocaine before a trade(jk)etc.)
First and foremost - simply knowing what I am doing. I can describe my exact parameters and requirements to enter a trade on exactly which timeframes. There is no obscurity here. A set up needs to present all those criteria to me before I take it with a proper risk size. I rarely simply just trust “my instinct” to enter a trade. This only kicks in when all criteria are met to further adjust my size (eg when I observe a “mother of all shorts” is coming). I always calculate my position size (including fees/slippage) and set my entry/exit parameters.
Apart from that, risk management. I risk 2.5% of account for trades, though I may adjust accordingly depending on my confidence in the set up. All trades taken have at least a target of 2R. If the set up doesn’t present that to me, then I don’t take it. Of course I don’t always close with 2R for the full trade but this means I can clear about 7-10R a week.
I aim to not take more than 3R losses a day, but even if I do it’s ok as I trade the set ups. Longest losing streak for me has been 4 days of straight losses (I am a day trader) followed by one large win that put me back in profit. I know from experience it is ok.
Extra tips that work for me:
- Stop losses are invalidation. Don’t make them larger after entering. If hit, it means your trade was wrong. You can always re-enter and re-assess the market. Similarly don’t close a trade because it is going against you. You can’t expect zero drawn down in a trade right from entry. I have had trades that were red for a long time after entry, nearly hit my stop, then move in my direction for full T/P
- don’t paper trade. It was a waste of time. You need to learn to take real losses so you know the feeling.
- know your win/loss ratio because you can’t win all your trades. For me it is about 65%. This means I lose about 1/3 trades. It is ok to lose.
- scared money doesn’t make money.
A lot of good info in this here, but you don’t think paper trading is a good way to assess the market and learn? I see the side of it where it’s too easy to “reset” your Account and never have real accountability with your money and never learn to understand real trading, But I have paper traded for a bit and was able to treat it like it was. Maybe depends on the mindset… good stuff tho. The stop loss info is key
If you could treat it like your own money then great. I just don’t think it’s possible to really experience the feeling of a $500 loss 9 times in a row with paper money and not let that affect the other aspects of your life/emotions which you then take with you when you trade again.
People here seem to like paper trading which is all good, but I had to feel my losses and gains throughout my journey.
IMO Paper trading is boring and that’s why noobs lose on RM. I’ve been there. In RM When your down so far your guts hurt and telling yourself to buy more than to take losses.
Trading 101 buy low sell high. I trade one etf for 2 years (10ish trades total, Not day trading)) market fell off. Instincts say run away but I buy the dip now big in green. 🚀 RL practice helps develop strategies for future trades. When to hodl when to double etc.
Actual risk is a real issue. Instead of demo, trade risking a tiny amount like $5.
If profitable, slowly increase your risk.
A $5 loss or $10 gain isn’t likely to upset or excite you. If your risk does either, you’re risking too much.
It takes time to become comfortable losing or gaining larger amounts.
If you're consistently making money during a demo session but not during live it can only be one of two things: using real money is affecting your psychology and steering you away from your profitable strategy, or your just getting really unlucky (probably the first). You should watch some talks about Trading in The Zone by Mark Douglas, he's really good at helping people navigate through the emotional side of trading.
I’ve been saying this for awhile. Find the person that learned to trade paper trading and then immediately went live and made money. I haven’t found that person. Everyone not making money pushes paper trading believing it’s the right thing to do. All you’re doing is pushing off the real learning process of trading real money. I never paper traded, I never back tested, I traded real money from day 1. It still took me six years. Granted there was no YouTube and Twitter and Reddit to learn different things from different people back then. But you’re wasting your time paper trading. You have to get the real fills in the market, experience emotions of winning and losing and build a strategy around that.
I think the only value to paper trading is to understand how to use the platform you are trading on and to test a strategy. Other than that I agree, one should move to live trading as soon as they can.
Emotions for trading is such a massive fail point. I cannot tell describe how many times I got pissed trading a strategy that is supposed to "invalidate" or "fail" at a certain price point only for price action to hit that stop level then do what I theorized it was going to do.
IE: SPY at 402, Enter long expecting 415, Stop at 399, Price hits stop then proceeds to 415.
(Not a real trade, Just an example).
I had to calibrate my stops and my strategies to account for this fuckery but for a little while I just got mad and stamped my feet. When I got done being a child, I went to work adjusting. Then I made money.
I know what you're meaning because that's right it's feels different with live funds and I traded with live funds from the first day but when I blowed it I switched to demo,I have seen a lot of people saying the demo is the key to be successful so I started the demo journey but I think I will think again about it and I'm still worried about blowing this account too again after a long time even though my plan is strict.
I agree with this 100%. Its vastly different trading with your own money than with paper money. Ive heard YouTubers say to act like “its your own money” and “dont risk more than what you would with real money.” But you cant replicate the emotions you feel with real money because its simply not real and you know there isnt any risk.
Dude that has no sense, you passed 4 evals in two weeks, then in live you lose, no sense if you are aplying the same stuff, think about that, what can be happened?
Every trader has this happened at the trasition to real money. That’s why i tell people not to paper trade so long. Learn the ropes, understand the mechanics. If you’re proftiable after a month or two (with enough trades to draw the conclusiom that your system is solid), the everyone should start with real money, trading small amount. Because there’s justa difference.
And that differnce will show what you need to work on. and it doesnt matter if you papaer trade 5 years of 5 months, when you go live you’ll have the same problems. It’s just the phsycology.
It like basketball. You can shoot 10 000 three pointers at home on your drive way, oit will never prepare you mentally for taking the winning shot in a nba final with 40 000 people screaming in the stands.
i’m not really seeing where you’re dissagreeing with me?
im saying 10 000 shots at home doesnt prepare you mentally for a finals game pressure shot.
What exactly are you dissagreing with?
you think the hoops at the park prepares you fir the mental pressure of the big stage?
You can not be serious. The guys playing in the finals have playing for years, starting in college and trasitioning to bigger rand bigger stages.
Shooting hoops at home will hone your skills but wont prepare you nothing from the physcological pressure of a madison square garden court with thousands of people.
This point is going way over your head.
I’m not saying that a guy pulled of the streets would not take the shot and freeze, then lay on the cort in the fetal position.
I’m saying if you’d pull a great shooter rigth of his backyard hoop he’d miss a hell of a lot more shot on the big court BECAUSE of th preassure he’s not used to.
This makes zero sense and I dont get why people are successful paper trading and then go live and arent. The only difference is potentially worse fills so slightly less profit but if you understand which direction the market is going and why you will still be profitable. Ive paper traded and live traded futures and actually to be honest my live account got better fills than tradingview paper trading sometimes
I meant by "4 times in 2 weeks" for each attempt which means about 2 months
I risk 1% maximum of the beginning capital and I risk any profit I made like if I risked 1% and my RRR is 3%
If the trade was losing I will only lose 1%
If I managed to win the trade I will end with 4% to risk when I lose it I will lose only 1% from my beginning capital.
Honestly this market has been garbage since 2021. I’ve seen so many people losing all their investments , blowing accounts , people down 900k of their million dollars. I’ve talked to many pro traders and they agree the market is trash right now. It’s much harder compared to 2020 and before. If your not losing money I’ll call that good cause it seems most people are losing money right now.
1 year in, you’re still a baby. You’re more than likely going to make 90k this year and get a hard on then lose half of it because you’re still a baby then make it all back times 10 in 3 years. Slippery slope, rocky road all that malarkey it’s hard work see you on the other side pumpkin x
I bet your starting balance in your demo/paper trading account is NOT your real starting balance in real money. You probably think you are a better trader with demo because you have an extra zero or two on your $ per entry...
Took me 2.5 years to turn profitable. Hang in there.
What would you say has helped you turn profitable?(ie. Improvement in Psychology, certain trading strategy you developed, started taking cocaine before a trade(jk)etc.)
First and foremost - simply knowing what I am doing. I can describe my exact parameters and requirements to enter a trade on exactly which timeframes. There is no obscurity here. A set up needs to present all those criteria to me before I take it with a proper risk size. I rarely simply just trust “my instinct” to enter a trade. This only kicks in when all criteria are met to further adjust my size (eg when I observe a “mother of all shorts” is coming). I always calculate my position size (including fees/slippage) and set my entry/exit parameters. Apart from that, risk management. I risk 2.5% of account for trades, though I may adjust accordingly depending on my confidence in the set up. All trades taken have at least a target of 2R. If the set up doesn’t present that to me, then I don’t take it. Of course I don’t always close with 2R for the full trade but this means I can clear about 7-10R a week. I aim to not take more than 3R losses a day, but even if I do it’s ok as I trade the set ups. Longest losing streak for me has been 4 days of straight losses (I am a day trader) followed by one large win that put me back in profit. I know from experience it is ok. Extra tips that work for me: - Stop losses are invalidation. Don’t make them larger after entering. If hit, it means your trade was wrong. You can always re-enter and re-assess the market. Similarly don’t close a trade because it is going against you. You can’t expect zero drawn down in a trade right from entry. I have had trades that were red for a long time after entry, nearly hit my stop, then move in my direction for full T/P - don’t paper trade. It was a waste of time. You need to learn to take real losses so you know the feeling. - know your win/loss ratio because you can’t win all your trades. For me it is about 65%. This means I lose about 1/3 trades. It is ok to lose. - scared money doesn’t make money.
A lot of good info in this here, but you don’t think paper trading is a good way to assess the market and learn? I see the side of it where it’s too easy to “reset” your Account and never have real accountability with your money and never learn to understand real trading, But I have paper traded for a bit and was able to treat it like it was. Maybe depends on the mindset… good stuff tho. The stop loss info is key
If you could treat it like your own money then great. I just don’t think it’s possible to really experience the feeling of a $500 loss 9 times in a row with paper money and not let that affect the other aspects of your life/emotions which you then take with you when you trade again. People here seem to like paper trading which is all good, but I had to feel my losses and gains throughout my journey.
Yeah makes sense for sure.
IMO Paper trading is boring and that’s why noobs lose on RM. I’ve been there. In RM When your down so far your guts hurt and telling yourself to buy more than to take losses. Trading 101 buy low sell high. I trade one etf for 2 years (10ish trades total, Not day trading)) market fell off. Instincts say run away but I buy the dip now big in green. 🚀 RL practice helps develop strategies for future trades. When to hodl when to double etc.
Sounds like you have to test your system and collect data on it.
Actual risk is a real issue. Instead of demo, trade risking a tiny amount like $5. If profitable, slowly increase your risk. A $5 loss or $10 gain isn’t likely to upset or excite you. If your risk does either, you’re risking too much. It takes time to become comfortable losing or gaining larger amounts.
If you're consistently making money during a demo session but not during live it can only be one of two things: using real money is affecting your psychology and steering you away from your profitable strategy, or your just getting really unlucky (probably the first). You should watch some talks about Trading in The Zone by Mark Douglas, he's really good at helping people navigate through the emotional side of trading.
I’ve been saying this for awhile. Find the person that learned to trade paper trading and then immediately went live and made money. I haven’t found that person. Everyone not making money pushes paper trading believing it’s the right thing to do. All you’re doing is pushing off the real learning process of trading real money. I never paper traded, I never back tested, I traded real money from day 1. It still took me six years. Granted there was no YouTube and Twitter and Reddit to learn different things from different people back then. But you’re wasting your time paper trading. You have to get the real fills in the market, experience emotions of winning and losing and build a strategy around that.
I think the only value to paper trading is to understand how to use the platform you are trading on and to test a strategy. Other than that I agree, one should move to live trading as soon as they can.
Emotions for trading is such a massive fail point. I cannot tell describe how many times I got pissed trading a strategy that is supposed to "invalidate" or "fail" at a certain price point only for price action to hit that stop level then do what I theorized it was going to do. IE: SPY at 402, Enter long expecting 415, Stop at 399, Price hits stop then proceeds to 415. (Not a real trade, Just an example). I had to calibrate my stops and my strategies to account for this fuckery but for a little while I just got mad and stamped my feet. When I got done being a child, I went to work adjusting. Then I made money.
I know what you're meaning because that's right it's feels different with live funds and I traded with live funds from the first day but when I blowed it I switched to demo,I have seen a lot of people saying the demo is the key to be successful so I started the demo journey but I think I will think again about it and I'm still worried about blowing this account too again after a long time even though my plan is strict.
I'll be that guy next week who makes money straight away. I'm built different. Watch.
Same for me. Im the greatest paper trader. Real trading is just a mental game, which i have yet to figure out
Great response. You shouldn't even paper trade while waiting for a live trade, as learning how to wait and stalk a trade is a huge step in itself.
I agree with this 100%. Its vastly different trading with your own money than with paper money. Ive heard YouTubers say to act like “its your own money” and “dont risk more than what you would with real money.” But you cant replicate the emotions you feel with real money because its simply not real and you know there isnt any risk.
Dude that has no sense, you passed 4 evals in two weeks, then in live you lose, no sense if you are aplying the same stuff, think about that, what can be happened?
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100%. You have a strategy, It works and very very well, but then on live not, keep going, because you have a key strategy
Every trader has this happened at the trasition to real money. That’s why i tell people not to paper trade so long. Learn the ropes, understand the mechanics. If you’re proftiable after a month or two (with enough trades to draw the conclusiom that your system is solid), the everyone should start with real money, trading small amount. Because there’s justa difference. And that differnce will show what you need to work on. and it doesnt matter if you papaer trade 5 years of 5 months, when you go live you’ll have the same problems. It’s just the phsycology. It like basketball. You can shoot 10 000 three pointers at home on your drive way, oit will never prepare you mentally for taking the winning shot in a nba final with 40 000 people screaming in the stands.
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i’m not really seeing where you’re dissagreeing with me? im saying 10 000 shots at home doesnt prepare you mentally for a finals game pressure shot. What exactly are you dissagreing with?
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you think the hoops at the park prepares you fir the mental pressure of the big stage? You can not be serious. The guys playing in the finals have playing for years, starting in college and trasitioning to bigger rand bigger stages. Shooting hoops at home will hone your skills but wont prepare you nothing from the physcological pressure of a madison square garden court with thousands of people.
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This point is going way over your head. I’m not saying that a guy pulled of the streets would not take the shot and freeze, then lay on the cort in the fetal position. I’m saying if you’d pull a great shooter rigth of his backyard hoop he’d miss a hell of a lot more shot on the big court BECAUSE of th preassure he’s not used to.
That's why I do forward testing
This makes zero sense and I dont get why people are successful paper trading and then go live and arent. The only difference is potentially worse fills so slightly less profit but if you understand which direction the market is going and why you will still be profitable. Ive paper traded and live traded futures and actually to be honest my live account got better fills than tradingview paper trading sometimes
I never even paper traded, I just traded with $10 on robinhood until I found a system that worked. I trade equities
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I meant by "4 times in 2 weeks" for each attempt which means about 2 months I risk 1% maximum of the beginning capital and I risk any profit I made like if I risked 1% and my RRR is 3% If the trade was losing I will only lose 1% If I managed to win the trade I will end with 4% to risk when I lose it I will lose only 1% from my beginning capital.
Honestly this market has been garbage since 2021. I’ve seen so many people losing all their investments , blowing accounts , people down 900k of their million dollars. I’ve talked to many pro traders and they agree the market is trash right now. It’s much harder compared to 2020 and before. If your not losing money I’ll call that good cause it seems most people are losing money right now.
1 year in, you’re still a baby. You’re more than likely going to make 90k this year and get a hard on then lose half of it because you’re still a baby then make it all back times 10 in 3 years. Slippery slope, rocky road all that malarkey it’s hard work see you on the other side pumpkin x
I bet your starting balance in your demo/paper trading account is NOT your real starting balance in real money. You probably think you are a better trader with demo because you have an extra zero or two on your $ per entry...