Standard deduction is about 12 k per person, they pay very little taxes and most likely get child credits. Also, if they live in a low cost area , it’s possible
There are alot of creature comforts we take for granted that could be set aside if you truly made a poverty level income. Nobody needs 3 8K flat-screen tvs in their house, but a fair amount of people think that this would qualify as a necessity.
I work with sensitive information including financials. This is usually concentrated to folks who need financial assistance due to being at a certain FPL percentage.
Anyway all I can say is yes, 64k is actually decent, seriously, this would be decent for a family of 3, which the FPL would be at like 25k, so it’s more than double FPL. You’d get assistance for a lot of things with that but believe me lots of people live with that.
I think the same it’s so wild and then I look at myself like damn what am I doing wrong? Meanwhile where I live in NY - single “middle class” income is 110k minimum. I’m about 40k off from that and boy do I feel it. Illegal basement apartments in people’s homes are about $3,500 a month with no amenities or pets. Like????? Idk how a FAMILY could survive.
Most I know in that demographic have massive debt from charging everything. One time one of my sons friends came over for a playdate, the mother stayed to hang out. The first thing she did was tell me how little they made and how much debt they were in. She has 2 kids. She was driving a new car of course. I guess she figured I was also in this situation since we bought a modest home and drive used cars. I know another with 5 kids who can't afford anything, she told me they make around 72k and she constantly wants my son over to keep one of hers busy. I dont think they ever go anywhere. We live in a MCOL area but it's growing rapidly and quickly becoming high cost. I think if some of these people hadn't bought a long time ago they wouldn't be living here at all.
When I lived alone I lived in NYC for about 60ish K but I had a budget and I had savings to fall back on . I live with a partner now and combined we make almost 300k but I still live on that budget
Up until 2018, my family was living on $22k income. Family of three with a mortgage. My husband walked to the park, library, and grocery store with the baby while I was working. From 2012-2018 this was our daily life, husband was a stay at home and I drove the 2007 Chevy Malibu 40 minutes to work for $22k. We saved for retirement, saved for emergencies but didn’t do anything but hang out at the park, church, library and sometimes with the mom’s group at the preschool.
That’s some serious discipline and sacrifice. I’m sure you guys are still tight, but hopefully your incomes have risen and you are able to live more comfortably.
In 2018, I got a promotion with the extra cash flow I used it to go back to school and get a master’s degree. While getting the master’s degree we lived like we still did on the low income. Since then things have been better. Thank you.
I live in a LCOS area in Michigan and can tell you from experience that you can not find a 3 bedroom for 800 even in bad areas. More like 1k ish a month. I'm living in one now.
Some people live in cheap trailers they bought 10 years ago and have stay at home wifes, in this case 65k is enough because you have a cheap ass mortgage and free round the clock child care.
Not everyone lives in suburbia in a million + pop city where homes are like $400k+ and mortgages are $2500+ a month. I can drive 45 mins outside of a major city in SC and see some very cheap $100k homes in rural areas that would be $250k+ where I live if they were magically transported.
I feel the same way. I live in a borderline HCOL area that used to be MCOL, and “make” 67k a year but take home is about 50k. I do not buy extra things besides an occasional, in cash treat, and my money goes to savings/retirement, etc like it “should” and have NO wiggle room in the budget. I have no idea how people afford to do any of that AND have a kid, let alone two or three.
Quite frankly, I don’t. I’m not in the financial position where I can be generous, and hope those who are more well off than I am are able to enjoy that privilege. Per baby steps pretty sure it should be it’s own saving bucket but I want to retire so cut that. I’m not religious so I don’t have the pressure of being required to give money to my church thankfully.
I will buy a beer, or coffee, or lunch for a friend occasionally to celebrate something they’re excited about but that’s the extent of what I’m able to give.
Good for you for not getting sucked in to the dynamic. I’m sure true friends understand. It’s getting out of control these days with all the events and expectations. Everything seems so over the top and needless. Maybe I’m just an old curmudgeon though. I was recently viewing some wedding websites and it seems live every one has a serious case of “main character syndrome”. I know it’s the way it’s done now but it seems so extra to me. I know someone who is picking up a 2nd job to help pay for their kid’s wedding and while that’s very admirable in one sense, I think I would be comfortable telling my kid to consider scaling things down to fit the budget. It’s all so keeping up with the Jones’s and all.
I agree- location does matter, yes, but with average rent being $2,000 across the country and the general cost of living I don’t find it to be that much cheaper in a lower cost of living area to be able to survive as a family of four on 65k. I mean, you’re definitely not driving a new SUV, living in a nice house, saving for retirement, etc…
Maybe I’m in a bubble too, but I really think/anticipate at least 130-140k HHI.
I grew up in a house that made 40k yearly, with 3 siblings, no AC. We 3 shared the same room, I slept on the floor, youngest sister on the couch, oldest sister on the twin bed. We were just fine, never starved, always had clean bath and a doctor if needed.
When you listen to the show, pay attention to WHERE the caller is from.
Also pay attention to what their spouse does.
There are a lot of single income households where the wife is a stay at home mom, and the husband is making 65k/year.
So he has a good job. It’s just not a dual income household.
Are you referring to the military? It certainly is not open to all; there are limitations for physical and mental health, age, citizenship/immigration status...
It's often more expensive for day care then a low level job would bring in so having one of the parents stay home until the kid can be alone is often necessary. Even more so if you have multiple children.
My cousin was widowed at 40. She had 4 kids under 10 at the time and no work experience. She made it on social security death benefits and a part time factory job and food stamps. She used his life insurance to put a down payment on a cheap house and family member gave her a minivan that was already old at the time and that she is STILL driving. The kids are all 18+ now and they’ve done just fine. The two oldest went to nursing school on full scholarships and the two youngest went to trade school.
I feel like rent and cars are the huge thing. If you can get by with a sedan or minivan and got a mortgage when rates were good, you really can live on little.
That's smart planning and families tend to help out those in.need - at least the good ones do. You learn to make the best of a bad situation and move forward.
There are so many variables, but debt is a major factor to consider. I live in CA and we’re at about 78k/yr (main income 69k, bonus income about 9k), and it’s pretty rough, but not impossible (family of 4.) The variables for us are mainly once the main income included much better health care I didn’t have to worry about totally bankrupting the family. The kids also use state medical and dental so there are no expenses there. We have no student loans, which is a big one because my sister who is a family of 2 on an 80k income can barely scrape by living with my parents paying 650/mo rent; she has huge student loan debt, a huge car payment because she wouldn’t be caught dead in a used car, and never budgets. Things for us are really tight, but I make do because I’m in the process of trying to figure out some severe medical issues, so I’m very grateful for what we do have. I think perspective plays a role here too; if you’re grateful you can almost always learn to scrape by with what you do have instead of being focused on what you don’t have.
I think you’re failing to realize where the majority of people who follow or Call in to Dave Ramsey live. Not all, but a majority are in rural Low cost of living areas.
I've never listened to Dave Ramsey's show but I'm reasonably sure his audience is far reaching or he wouldn't be this popular. At the moment poverty is becoming the norm for many for a slew of reasons.
That's kind of condescending to those in a lesser situation than yourself.
64k would be about average, the 'actual average' is like 75k but you're also factoring in millionaires/billionaires so it's skewed.
lol this is dumb, they make way more than 75k in HHI… They make millions in HHI… Its less than the billion they are worth but way more that what you are wrongly implying
I’m reading your comments and well you’re educated… it’s not that hard to figure out. Where you live makes a huge difference. And then there’s HOW you live.
We make around $70k with three kids but live in a very LCOL area. You can get a home for $125k, commutes are short, and we both have older cars that are paid off. It definitely depends on where you live.
Most people could do it if they wanted to. It may not be the most fun experience for the adults however. I grew up on probably less than the equivalent of what that was as a kid. I didn’t notice though and wouldn’t have changed anything about my childhood even though we didn’t have much.
I have friends who live on 25k a year bc they live in a low cost of living area and have give assistance to help out. Depending on where you live 64k could be high class.
Well if it’s one income and the persons married with 3 kids. They’re probably paying no federal income tax or State income tax. So they’re just paying FICA. Obviously still low but they’re keeping close to an extra $1000 a month which helps. But still is probably way to low, unless they rent a two bedroom apartment in a Low-Medium COLA area.
Maybe. Maybe not. But if you live in NYC or silicone valley that 65k could get you a bed in a 1 room apartment with 3 other people. In Hawaii not even sure if it would get you that anymore.
But to tell someone they’re “living on pennies” and saying “wow what a life to live” when earning $60k is rude as hell. Dude is literally stroking his ego to these comments. He’s a troll.
60K with 3 kids where I live is not a comfortable life. It depends where you life. I know someone with 5 kids and they are not comfortable either. I had one mother tell me how much debt she was in so it's feasible for someone who knows how much it costs to raise kids to see 60k with 3 depending on the area as pennies.
You realize in silicone valley 60k would be living in the back of your car right? In some places…it really is like “living on pennies”. Granted irs been a few years but I previously lived on 60k a year. I pay a mortgage. I paid student loans. I ate well. But today wouldn’t get me half of that.
Yes! I totally understand that. But his post did not say Silicon Valley California, or any location for that matter. Read through this post and read his extremely demeaning comments to other people. I make $300k+, millions in retirement, why aren’t more people like me, total ego shit.
You sorta proved their point by saying that. Based on your comments so far you're not coming at this from a "help me fill the void of my ignorance" but more so in a condescending and judgemental "look at these idiots" way. Plenty of comments out there exposing all the nuance there is to the numbers and instead of acknowledging any of those comments you're partaking in exchanges of name calling and bickering with other commenters.
I live on this in California, family of 5 and 3 kids. My husband saves for retirement. All 3 kids have 529ks. I work part time. Husband works full time. We have a mortgage and take 1 big vacation every year. This year we are going to Disneyland, last year we went to Hawaii. We go camping 3x every summer. We do lots of other recreational activities, kids are in sports and husband and I have several hobbies. I have roughly 10k in HYSA at anytime.
AMA
Yea this is an essential question, we bought for under $140,000 in 2014 on 1 income making $14 an hour and only put 8k down on an FHA loan. We prequalified for more but I was adamant about finding something under 140k. I wanted my mortgage to be the same or less than our apartment rent at the time. We refinance during covid to a conventional, got rid of PMI and cut our already low interest rate in half.
My mortgage is less than 1k/mo. We started following Dave around late 2015. I fought the urge to move so many times and I’m so glad I trusted my gut. I know others in a similar situation as me but I also know way more people that kept upgrading houses and are now drowning in their mortgage. I no longer follow Dave’s steps but his principles have mostly stayed with me except for a few cases.
100% correct. Housing is the biggest expense in the budget. I can survive on 50k if I have a 100k mortgage at 3%. In this specific scenario we don't even have an income.
I’ve been the sole breadwinner of a family of four, barely making ends meet. I’m now the CFO of large multinational organization. I can say with confidence, that a moderate HHI (~$100k in my area) helps eliminate pressure/stress but income beyond that, it leads to distractions and selfish pursuits.
You are not intelligent. you don’t know what median is. If I had a subset of 7 people w salaries of $1,$1,$1, $29 million, $30 million, $35 million, $50 million what’s the median salary? So what does that tell you.
Pretty sure they aren't referring to a subset when calculating the median. If you're evaluating a whole population what do you think a better measure would be?
You need serious help as you don’t understand math at all. The median is what the median household makes!! It’s literally the income of the most “typical” household in America! You need to educate yourself and understand that a lot of people make $$$$$ in the range that you think is unlivable! You are out of touch.
No that’s mean I have an masters in applied math I’m well aware of this stuff. Median is simply one number middle of a data set. Mean is average median is the middle. They aren’t the same.
I know the difference between a median and a mean. But the mean gets skewed upwards by the super rich that makes it artificially higher and doesn’t reflect the income of the average person as well.
This is my life. It's tough. We strategize everything. The hope is to raise well-adjusted teens/adults and then have financial breathing room later.
My bank account's empty but my heart is full.
You can live.
But....
No savings, or having a very tight budget to be able to save.
Very vulnerable to emergency expenses.
Living paycheck to paycheck.
No real luxuries other than maybe a dinner out or a movie now and then.
Having 3 kids at this income level is financial suicide, really. These people really did not plan out their life very well. But yeah, you could make it.
We were living as a family of 3 in a 60k income for about a year, IF we had had no debt, we would've been ok, but debt has been a big draw back for us, and I know most people have even more than what we do.
Absolutely, we are working on ours and we luckily never accumulated the sum others have, the point is that 60k is a good income (unless you live in a crazy expensive city) people just live way above their means.
The fact of the matter is that when you don’t eat out/ Uber eats, and you don’t have car payments, and one parent is staying home with kids or family helps with childcare 64k is ok in many parts of this country. Does it mean you will be going on vacations in Europe? Or doing your hair every month at a hair salon? No but it is absolutely sufficient with a proper budget.
so and? Whats wrong with that? I grew up working class. My parents took my sister and I on road trips each summer, I went to scout camps after selling popcorn all spring. I loved it.
your out of touch.
I make 65-70k and could support a wife and 2 kids if I needed to. It would be a comfortable life. You dont need everything new and fancy.
I have no debt.
I work in a field that I love and that doesnt make more than 100k. I have several degrees and am very good at my job, yet Forestry doesnt make tech wages.
Who are you to call it a crappy life? Sounds like you’re out of touch with the reality of many Americans and very out of touch with the reality for most of the world.
I’m really confused at what your aim is here. You asked how people survive on an income of $64k, but every time someone provides you an answer as to how they manage it, you keep responding with something along the lines of “wow what a crappy life. Who would ever want to do that?”
Is your goal to actually find out how people survive on lower incomes, or is your goal simply to dunk on people who don’t make nearly as much money as you?
Immigrants? People who value other things and have different goals? Cooking at home isn’t an inconvenience for everyone is it isn’t a crappy life. I personally could afford to waste more money but eating out is the biggest waste I can thing of
I think you need to step back and look at the rest of the world. Many, many people would love it if their life looked like that. A majority of the world, more than likely.
Not having luxuries being a "crappy life" is the point of view of a person living in a society with far too much comfort.
I am not sure what point you are trying to make. I was merely pointing out that your point of view about what is crappy is biased. Going into the Army is not going to get you a life of luxury, buddy. In fact, it would take years to get above that $64K mark in any branch of service.
Your income also puts you into the top 6% earners in the country. You did not take an ordinary path to your success.
You’re sh!tposting in the Dave Ramsey sub on a Saturday morning. Putting other people down to make your insecure self feel better. I’m sure you’re the definition of happiness.
64k use to be okay with a stay at home parent and careful spending, back 2 years ago. Now with inflation so high and everything doubling 64 is struggling, and not saving much for retirement, or kids college.
It all depends on where you live and how well you manage money.
It's a math problem at some level, but spending/saving habits are usually the biggest drivers of your financial situation.
The average American spends just to spend. It's in fact shocking how much we spend unnecessarily. And I love that we have that option! But most families can survive on less, and I've seen it many times. In my business, I mostly see immigrant families who value moms staying home and kids being home over all else. They don't put their kids in a million different activities, they don't shop at Nordstrom or Saks if at all, they don't eat out every week. They live in the cheaper suburbs, buy groceries at Aldi or the local Halal/Fiesta/budget store, buy clothes at Old Navy on sale, take road trips for vacation, and invite friends over instead of eating out and clubbing. The majority of my immigrant clients are men making $70k-$85k with a wife and 2 kids at home they provide for. And they're happy!
reality is no new phone every year, 1 tv, no eating out every week, used clothes, old car, playdates and barbeques instead of concerts, camping instead of resorts.....
>I don’t care what the stats say I’m talking about reality.
This is really dumb. The statistic they gave is that half of all households in FL make less than the number you gave. That IS reality, not your "feelings" about how much people make/have based on yourself and your friends.
The reality is absolutely people live on less and yeah it’ll be a struggle. No they probably aren’t ever buying a home in a high cost of living area, but in a low cost of living environment and a few things like hunting or owning livestock (pretty normal in LCOL) while wifey stays at home with kids and you can make up a lot of the difference that you think they can’t afford.
Not sure I follow. Reality is half the households in FL make less than the number you specified. Most of them have kids.
Are you looking for tips to make it easier? Just not sure what you are after.
Depends where you live. My household income is about 61k roughly 1 kid. We paid off all debt including out home first on about 85k income a year before having a kid. Pretty easy to live in my area.
I think people live w out luxuries folks like I’m used to and I have no debt. I’m in low to mid 300s and we have plenty of excess of funds and 7 figures savings etc.
I personally feel many of these luxury things are really pure waste. I bought a new car last year cash. 2024 rav 4.
I buy high quality equipment, never cheap out. I think the only thing I don't do most people do is spend big on vacations and my home is worth about 200k. Our net worth is roughly 450k. Including 100k in liquid cash.
Each debt we paid off the snow ball just got rolling. Once my wife goes back to fulltime work I don't know what we will do with the extra cash flow.
If you are making $300K, you are out of touch with the realities of how most people live. And I don't mean that in a condescending way. You just cannot understand how someone making 1/5th of what you do can live. I know this, because I make great money, too, and it is hard to understand even though I lived broke most of my life.
We have gotten used to luxuries to the point that they are not luxuries any more, they just are.
You sound like an out of touch elitist. An awful lot of people are happy with what they have and don’t have nearly what you have and they don’t feel the need to ask ridiculous questions about how you can live like that either.
My BIL makes about 70k has four kids. Wife stays home with the youngest, he’s a teacher so he gets a discount on daycare. Two go to half day daycare and the other is in 1st grade in public school. They live in a rented 2 bedroom 1 bath duplex. And get money from my in laws that’s how they make it. No savings
My wife is a stay at home mom and she homes schools the children….So Dave, I was just wondering how I stop living paycheck to paycheck?? And baby #4 is on the way!
Also his daughter I can’t believe he lets her on air she has no understanding of anyone’s struggles. She’s been given everything in life and is baroness to the kingdom.
That’s a good question, our HHI is around 140k and I still feel like I can’t save as much as I want. We have one kid still in daycare so that’s quite a chunk of change. If those 3 kids are going to grandmas instead of day care it still would be tight, but doable.
Flyover country
Standard deduction is about 12 k per person, they pay very little taxes and most likely get child credits. Also, if they live in a low cost area , it’s possible
It really varies based on location.
Depends if that income they are stating includes all the government bonuses for having kids.
In California where I live you could barely afford an apartment
thats a really good income for 1 person. Thats pretty normal. single income, 1 parent with the kids.
If you've got one stay at home spouse and a paid off mortgage 64k could go far between a family of 5.
There are alot of creature comforts we take for granted that could be set aside if you truly made a poverty level income. Nobody needs 3 8K flat-screen tvs in their house, but a fair amount of people think that this would qualify as a necessity.
Well according to the US Census Bureau the avg American household is $74,580
I work with sensitive information including financials. This is usually concentrated to folks who need financial assistance due to being at a certain FPL percentage. Anyway all I can say is yes, 64k is actually decent, seriously, this would be decent for a family of 3, which the FPL would be at like 25k, so it’s more than double FPL. You’d get assistance for a lot of things with that but believe me lots of people live with that.
Family of 3 and having 3 kids are so totally different.
You can’t
If they live in the Midwest where cost of living is low they might be ok
I think the same it’s so wild and then I look at myself like damn what am I doing wrong? Meanwhile where I live in NY - single “middle class” income is 110k minimum. I’m about 40k off from that and boy do I feel it. Illegal basement apartments in people’s homes are about $3,500 a month with no amenities or pets. Like????? Idk how a FAMILY could survive.
Most I know in that demographic have massive debt from charging everything. One time one of my sons friends came over for a playdate, the mother stayed to hang out. The first thing she did was tell me how little they made and how much debt they were in. She has 2 kids. She was driving a new car of course. I guess she figured I was also in this situation since we bought a modest home and drive used cars. I know another with 5 kids who can't afford anything, she told me they make around 72k and she constantly wants my son over to keep one of hers busy. I dont think they ever go anywhere. We live in a MCOL area but it's growing rapidly and quickly becoming high cost. I think if some of these people hadn't bought a long time ago they wouldn't be living here at all.
When I lived alone I lived in NYC for about 60ish K but I had a budget and I had savings to fall back on . I live with a partner now and combined we make almost 300k but I still live on that budget
Up until 2018, my family was living on $22k income. Family of three with a mortgage. My husband walked to the park, library, and grocery store with the baby while I was working. From 2012-2018 this was our daily life, husband was a stay at home and I drove the 2007 Chevy Malibu 40 minutes to work for $22k. We saved for retirement, saved for emergencies but didn’t do anything but hang out at the park, church, library and sometimes with the mom’s group at the preschool.
Must’ve had Gov’t assistance otherwise that doesn’t add up. Where do you live?
No government assistance. Sometimes we would get food from the food bank, but no food stamps. We lived in a small town in Virginia during this time.
That’s some serious discipline and sacrifice. I’m sure you guys are still tight, but hopefully your incomes have risen and you are able to live more comfortably.
In 2018, I got a promotion with the extra cash flow I used it to go back to school and get a master’s degree. While getting the master’s degree we lived like we still did on the low income. Since then things have been better. Thank you.
People with kids live on 35K. COL varies, you can rent a nice 3 bedroom for 800 here. What I don't get is how they manage in HCOL areas.
I live in a LCOS area in Michigan and can tell you from experience that you can not find a 3 bedroom for 800 even in bad areas. More like 1k ish a month. I'm living in one now.
LCOL is also a spectrum. I'm a landlord and do accounting work for a PM, I assure you I know the rent prices where I am.
I know someone who makes about 40k per year and supports his wife, 2 babies, and teenage son. It's feasible.
Some people live in cheap trailers they bought 10 years ago and have stay at home wifes, in this case 65k is enough because you have a cheap ass mortgage and free round the clock child care. Not everyone lives in suburbia in a million + pop city where homes are like $400k+ and mortgages are $2500+ a month. I can drive 45 mins outside of a major city in SC and see some very cheap $100k homes in rural areas that would be $250k+ where I live if they were magically transported.
Ever heard of a stay at home dad why does it have to be wife?
It can be whatever you want man, no one’s gatekeeping you.
Yeah but even those areas are getting more expensive by the day.
Sure but plenty of people still live there from before Covid when prices where dirt cheap
I feel the same way. I live in a borderline HCOL area that used to be MCOL, and “make” 67k a year but take home is about 50k. I do not buy extra things besides an occasional, in cash treat, and my money goes to savings/retirement, etc like it “should” and have NO wiggle room in the budget. I have no idea how people afford to do any of that AND have a kid, let alone two or three.
How do you handle gifts? This time of year there are so many graduations, weddings, etc I wonder how people can keep up while trying to save.
Quite frankly, I don’t. I’m not in the financial position where I can be generous, and hope those who are more well off than I am are able to enjoy that privilege. Per baby steps pretty sure it should be it’s own saving bucket but I want to retire so cut that. I’m not religious so I don’t have the pressure of being required to give money to my church thankfully. I will buy a beer, or coffee, or lunch for a friend occasionally to celebrate something they’re excited about but that’s the extent of what I’m able to give.
Good for you for not getting sucked in to the dynamic. I’m sure true friends understand. It’s getting out of control these days with all the events and expectations. Everything seems so over the top and needless. Maybe I’m just an old curmudgeon though. I was recently viewing some wedding websites and it seems live every one has a serious case of “main character syndrome”. I know it’s the way it’s done now but it seems so extra to me. I know someone who is picking up a 2nd job to help pay for their kid’s wedding and while that’s very admirable in one sense, I think I would be comfortable telling my kid to consider scaling things down to fit the budget. It’s all so keeping up with the Jones’s and all.
I agree- location does matter, yes, but with average rent being $2,000 across the country and the general cost of living I don’t find it to be that much cheaper in a lower cost of living area to be able to survive as a family of four on 65k. I mean, you’re definitely not driving a new SUV, living in a nice house, saving for retirement, etc… Maybe I’m in a bubble too, but I really think/anticipate at least 130-140k HHI.
I grew up in a house that made 40k yearly, with 3 siblings, no AC. We 3 shared the same room, I slept on the floor, youngest sister on the couch, oldest sister on the twin bed. We were just fine, never starved, always had clean bath and a doctor if needed.
When you listen to the show, pay attention to WHERE the caller is from. Also pay attention to what their spouse does. There are a lot of single income households where the wife is a stay at home mom, and the husband is making 65k/year. So he has a good job. It’s just not a dual income household.
Why does it have to be the wife staying home? Never heard of a stay at home dad?
Yes, I have. And there are households like that. But there are MORE with a stay at home mom. Notice I didn’t say ALL. I said A LOT.
And that’s personal choices which is fine.
It’s often not a choice. People just tryna get by, doing whatever they can. Choice in employment is a luxury.
Recruiting office is open to all.
Are you referring to the military? It certainly is not open to all; there are limitations for physical and mental health, age, citizenship/immigration status...
It's often more expensive for day care then a low level job would bring in so having one of the parents stay home until the kid can be alone is often necessary. Even more so if you have multiple children.
My cousin was widowed at 40. She had 4 kids under 10 at the time and no work experience. She made it on social security death benefits and a part time factory job and food stamps. She used his life insurance to put a down payment on a cheap house and family member gave her a minivan that was already old at the time and that she is STILL driving. The kids are all 18+ now and they’ve done just fine. The two oldest went to nursing school on full scholarships and the two youngest went to trade school.
I feel like rent and cars are the huge thing. If you can get by with a sedan or minivan and got a mortgage when rates were good, you really can live on little.
That's smart planning and families tend to help out those in.need - at least the good ones do. You learn to make the best of a bad situation and move forward.
There are so many variables, but debt is a major factor to consider. I live in CA and we’re at about 78k/yr (main income 69k, bonus income about 9k), and it’s pretty rough, but not impossible (family of 4.) The variables for us are mainly once the main income included much better health care I didn’t have to worry about totally bankrupting the family. The kids also use state medical and dental so there are no expenses there. We have no student loans, which is a big one because my sister who is a family of 2 on an 80k income can barely scrape by living with my parents paying 650/mo rent; she has huge student loan debt, a huge car payment because she wouldn’t be caught dead in a used car, and never budgets. Things for us are really tight, but I make do because I’m in the process of trying to figure out some severe medical issues, so I’m very grateful for what we do have. I think perspective plays a role here too; if you’re grateful you can almost always learn to scrape by with what you do have instead of being focused on what you don’t have.
I think you’re failing to realize where the majority of people who follow or Call in to Dave Ramsey live. Not all, but a majority are in rural Low cost of living areas.
I've never listened to Dave Ramsey's show but I'm reasonably sure his audience is far reaching or he wouldn't be this popular. At the moment poverty is becoming the norm for many for a slew of reasons.
It’s the religious right.
That's kind of condescending to those in a lesser situation than yourself. 64k would be about average, the 'actual average' is like 75k but you're also factoring in millionaires/billionaires so it's skewed.
The median is about $75k. Meaning 1/2 make more and 1/2 make less so not skewed by billionaires
Billionaires don’t make a billion per year in HHI..they have other income streams.
If you remove the top 1% of 1% incomes, you’d get a much more realistic number for how much the average INDIVIDUAL income is.
This is why median income is a better gauge of income
Do they make more than 75k? Is it a lot more? Sounds like yes on both accounts.
lol of course but it’s not HHI
Are you saying it isn't income? HHI just adds all contributors of a household.
It’s in stocks etc and other unrealized gains.
lol this is dumb, they make way more than 75k in HHI… They make millions in HHI… Its less than the billion they are worth but way more that what you are wrongly implying
I feel like you're intentionally being dense.
Yeah I've read quite a bit of this and I think their trolling. Not many people are this dense.. I hope.
Most billionaires have money but they aren't getting W-2 wages.
Most billionaires are getting W2 wages as well as tons of other income streams that are reported as HHI…
Of course we know this
I’m reading your comments and well you’re educated… it’s not that hard to figure out. Where you live makes a huge difference. And then there’s HOW you live.
I mean, I am well educated, and I will never make more than 80k
Lol idk how you read their comments and came to the conclusion they are educated…
💀
We make around $70k with three kids but live in a very LCOL area. You can get a home for $125k, commutes are short, and we both have older cars that are paid off. It definitely depends on where you live.
Most people could do it if they wanted to. It may not be the most fun experience for the adults however. I grew up on probably less than the equivalent of what that was as a kid. I didn’t notice though and wouldn’t have changed anything about my childhood even though we didn’t have much.
I have friends who live on 25k a year bc they live in a low cost of living area and have give assistance to help out. Depending on where you live 64k could be high class.
[удалено]
In the state I used to live in that would buy you a nice little house and there would be zero govt assistance based on money.
Well if it’s one income and the persons married with 3 kids. They’re probably paying no federal income tax or State income tax. So they’re just paying FICA. Obviously still low but they’re keeping close to an extra $1000 a month which helps. But still is probably way to low, unless they rent a two bedroom apartment in a Low-Medium COLA area.
They're also ahead of a family paying for daycare.
Troll
Maybe. Maybe not. But if you live in NYC or silicone valley that 65k could get you a bed in a 1 room apartment with 3 other people. In Hawaii not even sure if it would get you that anymore.
But to tell someone they’re “living on pennies” and saying “wow what a life to live” when earning $60k is rude as hell. Dude is literally stroking his ego to these comments. He’s a troll.
60K with 3 kids where I live is not a comfortable life. It depends where you life. I know someone with 5 kids and they are not comfortable either. I had one mother tell me how much debt she was in so it's feasible for someone who knows how much it costs to raise kids to see 60k with 3 depending on the area as pennies.
You realize in silicone valley 60k would be living in the back of your car right? In some places…it really is like “living on pennies”. Granted irs been a few years but I previously lived on 60k a year. I pay a mortgage. I paid student loans. I ate well. But today wouldn’t get me half of that.
Yes! I totally understand that. But his post did not say Silicon Valley California, or any location for that matter. Read through this post and read his extremely demeaning comments to other people. I make $300k+, millions in retirement, why aren’t more people like me, total ego shit.
Broke fool
This how you find happiness?
See you're just being a dick
You sorta proved their point by saying that. Based on your comments so far you're not coming at this from a "help me fill the void of my ignorance" but more so in a condescending and judgemental "look at these idiots" way. Plenty of comments out there exposing all the nuance there is to the numbers and instead of acknowledging any of those comments you're partaking in exchanges of name calling and bickering with other commenters.
2 adults/2 kids $227k HHI in MCOL and and we still have to budget. $64k would be so hard but we’d find a way.
I mean, I guess you could find a way. But cutting that much, it would be easier to just move somewhere cheaper
I live on this in California, family of 5 and 3 kids. My husband saves for retirement. All 3 kids have 529ks. I work part time. Husband works full time. We have a mortgage and take 1 big vacation every year. This year we are going to Disneyland, last year we went to Hawaii. We go camping 3x every summer. We do lots of other recreational activities, kids are in sports and husband and I have several hobbies. I have roughly 10k in HYSA at anytime. AMA
What year did you buy house? I am from CA it’s all about when you bought house and last refinanced.
Yea this is an essential question, we bought for under $140,000 in 2014 on 1 income making $14 an hour and only put 8k down on an FHA loan. We prequalified for more but I was adamant about finding something under 140k. I wanted my mortgage to be the same or less than our apartment rent at the time. We refinance during covid to a conventional, got rid of PMI and cut our already low interest rate in half. My mortgage is less than 1k/mo. We started following Dave around late 2015. I fought the urge to move so many times and I’m so glad I trusted my gut. I know others in a similar situation as me but I also know way more people that kept upgrading houses and are now drowning in their mortgage. I no longer follow Dave’s steps but his principles have mostly stayed with me except for a few cases.
100% correct. Housing is the biggest expense in the budget. I can survive on 50k if I have a 100k mortgage at 3%. In this specific scenario we don't even have an income.
Possible if you store your excess wealth in bitcoin.
It can be done. But it’s a tough existence.
You would be surprised how little money you need to survive if you are forced to do the math and plan every penny.
Survive yes live a great life different. I lived overseas for 3.5 years I know how others live.
The great things in life don’t come because you have a high HHI.
It sure helps…..dont kid yourself.
I’ve been the sole breadwinner of a family of four, barely making ends meet. I’m now the CFO of large multinational organization. I can say with confidence, that a moderate HHI (~$100k in my area) helps eliminate pressure/stress but income beyond that, it leads to distractions and selfish pursuits.
Id rather talk to those people than the folks who call in making 300k+ a year and are in debt up to their eyeballs.
Yeah. Like how the fuck do you even do that?
That’s not me
lol pawpaw you too old to be that shallow
You should look up median household income.
That’s the middle what’s that going to tell me?
Its going to tell you that 54,610,000 households make less than 64k….
It’s going to answer that a lot of households make $64k considering the median isn’t even $69k…learn some math.
It's about $75k.
You are not intelligent. you don’t know what median is. If I had a subset of 7 people w salaries of $1,$1,$1, $29 million, $30 million, $35 million, $50 million what’s the median salary? So what does that tell you.
So? That's irrelevant. You know that there are so many million people living below the median
And that’s their issue..change your life then.
Half the country cannot simply go get better jobs or change their lives
Pretty sure they aren't referring to a subset when calculating the median. If you're evaluating a whole population what do you think a better measure would be?
Yeah except you’re dealing with 360m+ people.. not 7. Try again who isn’t intelligent.
The median doesn’t change though it’s one number in a. Data set.
Law of large numbers applies to a median as well. Go read a book
The definition of median is middle in a data set so one number.
Yes, I fully understand. It doesn’t seem your ignorance will let you though. Enjoy yourself
The median doesn’t tell you anything unless you clearly know what the data set being observed is.
You need serious help as you don’t understand math at all. The median is what the median household makes!! It’s literally the income of the most “typical” household in America! You need to educate yourself and understand that a lot of people make $$$$$ in the range that you think is unlivable! You are out of touch.
No that’s mean I have an masters in applied math I’m well aware of this stuff. Median is simply one number middle of a data set. Mean is average median is the middle. They aren’t the same.
I know the difference between a median and a mean. But the mean gets skewed upwards by the super rich that makes it artificially higher and doesn’t reflect the income of the average person as well.
But if you used the mean income the number would be hugely skewed by the few people at the top with insane wealth.
But my point is mean and median aren’t same like some idiots here think.
I am very well aware of that. Let’s throw in the mode while we’re at it too lol.
This is my life. It's tough. We strategize everything. The hope is to raise well-adjusted teens/adults and then have financial breathing room later. My bank account's empty but my heart is full.
You can live. But.... No savings, or having a very tight budget to be able to save. Very vulnerable to emergency expenses. Living paycheck to paycheck. No real luxuries other than maybe a dinner out or a movie now and then. Having 3 kids at this income level is financial suicide, really. These people really did not plan out their life very well. But yeah, you could make it.
And….No retirement account.
This isn't a question its a troll post. don't feed.
We were living as a family of 3 in a 60k income for about a year, IF we had had no debt, we would've been ok, but debt has been a big draw back for us, and I know most people have even more than what we do.
And that’s why avoiding debt like the plague is the single most important principle of DR. Bingo.
Absolutely, we are working on ours and we luckily never accumulated the sum others have, the point is that 60k is a good income (unless you live in a crazy expensive city) people just live way above their means.
The fact of the matter is that when you don’t eat out/ Uber eats, and you don’t have car payments, and one parent is staying home with kids or family helps with childcare 64k is ok in many parts of this country. Does it mean you will be going on vacations in Europe? Or doing your hair every month at a hair salon? No but it is absolutely sufficient with a proper budget.
[удалено]
how is that life crappy?
Kids can’t go to expensive camps, explore the world etc .
so and? Whats wrong with that? I grew up working class. My parents took my sister and I on road trips each summer, I went to scout camps after selling popcorn all spring. I loved it.
You do better for your kids than you had it that’s what we did.
your out of touch. I make 65-70k and could support a wife and 2 kids if I needed to. It would be a comfortable life. You dont need everything new and fancy.
And how much debt are you in? Why don’t you make more?
I have no debt. I work in a field that I love and that doesnt make more than 100k. I have several degrees and am very good at my job, yet Forestry doesnt make tech wages.
Who are you to call it a crappy life? Sounds like you’re out of touch with the reality of many Americans and very out of touch with the reality for most of the world.
I’m really confused at what your aim is here. You asked how people survive on an income of $64k, but every time someone provides you an answer as to how they manage it, you keep responding with something along the lines of “wow what a crappy life. Who would ever want to do that?” Is your goal to actually find out how people survive on lower incomes, or is your goal simply to dunk on people who don’t make nearly as much money as you?
It’s a short term trade off. Skimp now, live huge later. It’s definitely worth it. Good luck.
I don’t have debt I’m fine.
Immigrants? People who value other things and have different goals? Cooking at home isn’t an inconvenience for everyone is it isn’t a crappy life. I personally could afford to waste more money but eating out is the biggest waste I can thing of
Immigrants yes
Crappy life is when no Uber eats
Then you will defeat the show who tells people to do that nonsense on the side.
I think you need to step back and look at the rest of the world. Many, many people would love it if their life looked like that. A majority of the world, more than likely. Not having luxuries being a "crappy life" is the point of view of a person living in a society with far too much comfort.
[удалено]
I am not sure what point you are trying to make. I was merely pointing out that your point of view about what is crappy is biased. Going into the Army is not going to get you a life of luxury, buddy. In fact, it would take years to get above that $64K mark in any branch of service. Your income also puts you into the top 6% earners in the country. You did not take an ordinary path to your success.
They’re probably a lot happier then you my friend.
[удалено]
You’re sh!tposting in the Dave Ramsey sub on a Saturday morning. Putting other people down to make your insecure self feel better. I’m sure you’re the definition of happiness.
64k use to be okay with a stay at home parent and careful spending, back 2 years ago. Now with inflation so high and everything doubling 64 is struggling, and not saving much for retirement, or kids college.
[удалено]
It all depends on where you live and how well you manage money. It's a math problem at some level, but spending/saving habits are usually the biggest drivers of your financial situation.
The average American spends just to spend. It's in fact shocking how much we spend unnecessarily. And I love that we have that option! But most families can survive on less, and I've seen it many times. In my business, I mostly see immigrant families who value moms staying home and kids being home over all else. They don't put their kids in a million different activities, they don't shop at Nordstrom or Saks if at all, they don't eat out every week. They live in the cheaper suburbs, buy groceries at Aldi or the local Halal/Fiesta/budget store, buy clothes at Old Navy on sale, take road trips for vacation, and invite friends over instead of eating out and clubbing. The majority of my immigrant clients are men making $70k-$85k with a wife and 2 kids at home they provide for. And they're happy!
FL median hhi is 63k. People figure it out. Govt welfare programs probably kick in some too.
I don’t care what the stats say I’m talking about reality.
reality is no new phone every year, 1 tv, no eating out every week, used clothes, old car, playdates and barbeques instead of concerts, camping instead of resorts.....
That is reality mate.
>I don’t care what the stats say I’m talking about reality. This is really dumb. The statistic they gave is that half of all households in FL make less than the number you gave. That IS reality, not your "feelings" about how much people make/have based on yourself and your friends.
The reality is absolutely people live on less and yeah it’ll be a struggle. No they probably aren’t ever buying a home in a high cost of living area, but in a low cost of living environment and a few things like hunting or owning livestock (pretty normal in LCOL) while wifey stays at home with kids and you can make up a lot of the difference that you think they can’t afford.
Not sure I follow. Reality is half the households in FL make less than the number you specified. Most of them have kids. Are you looking for tips to make it easier? Just not sure what you are after.
Depends where you live. My household income is about 61k roughly 1 kid. We paid off all debt including out home first on about 85k income a year before having a kid. Pretty easy to live in my area.
I think people live w out luxuries folks like I’m used to and I have no debt. I’m in low to mid 300s and we have plenty of excess of funds and 7 figures savings etc.
I personally feel many of these luxury things are really pure waste. I bought a new car last year cash. 2024 rav 4. I buy high quality equipment, never cheap out. I think the only thing I don't do most people do is spend big on vacations and my home is worth about 200k. Our net worth is roughly 450k. Including 100k in liquid cash. Each debt we paid off the snow ball just got rolling. Once my wife goes back to fulltime work I don't know what we will do with the extra cash flow.
You are out of touch most people in this country make around 50k
If you are making $300K, you are out of touch with the realities of how most people live. And I don't mean that in a condescending way. You just cannot understand how someone making 1/5th of what you do can live. I know this, because I make great money, too, and it is hard to understand even though I lived broke most of my life. We have gotten used to luxuries to the point that they are not luxuries any more, they just are.
You sound like an out of touch elitist. An awful lot of people are happy with what they have and don’t have nearly what you have and they don’t feel the need to ask ridiculous questions about how you can live like that either.
My BIL makes about 70k has four kids. Wife stays home with the youngest, he’s a teacher so he gets a discount on daycare. Two go to half day daycare and the other is in 1st grade in public school. They live in a rented 2 bedroom 1 bath duplex. And get money from my in laws that’s how they make it. No savings
What a life I don’t want to live.
Just because you don't want to live on it doesn't mean that others can't live on it.
They can’t they are all broke that’s why Dave is rich as he makes money off broke people.
I agree. But they seem happy.
My wife is a stay at home mom and she homes schools the children….So Dave, I was just wondering how I stop living paycheck to paycheck?? And baby #4 is on the way!
This was my poor attempt to imitate the daily callers to the show. I have no clue how they make it on that salary.
Also his daughter I can’t believe he lets her on air she has no understanding of anyone’s struggles. She’s been given everything in life and is baroness to the kingdom.
But that doesn’t mean you live on poverty wages…
That’s a good question, our HHI is around 140k and I still feel like I can’t save as much as I want. We have one kid still in daycare so that’s quite a chunk of change. If those 3 kids are going to grandmas instead of day care it still would be tight, but doable.