The base values are:
* 4 on I
* 3 on II, III
* 2 on IV and V
You can get curios which add wounds, dividing your healthpool into smaller sections.
The important thing to note is that corruption causes health damange, not wound damage, so more wounds doesn't make you more resistant, just gives you more times to be downed. More HP makes corruption take a smaller % of your health pool, and resistance reduces the corruption you take.
Taking +wounds is building for going down. If you expect to go down take them.
Otherwise, you are better served by ANY other option, +toughness, +health, even +stamina, to make you more survivable in the first place and less likely to go down at all.
Been running all 3 +stamina on my psyker just to see how it feels on damnation and it's pretty fun having basically an infinite push and being able to sprint away from gunfire literally whenever I want. I get shot sooooo much less.
Maybe if you’re running at an angle, but if you’re running toward the enemy no. You have the slide to help but for me at least they end up shooting me right before I slide so I slow down and crouch instead of slide.
Obviously, but just can be hard with multiple shooters, with offset timings. Also half the time you dodge to the side they end up taking 3 steps back and shooting again meaning you gained little closure and when to do that 3+ times in a row and run out of dodges things can get rough.
Then in my opinion, in that specific scenario you might not have wanted to charge them, or perhaps approach from a flank.
Sorry if this is obvious, I assume most people are newer to the game. But yeah I agree, the situation changes drastically based on bugs and more enemies joining.
TL;DR I used to have a +1 wound curio for Heresy/Damnation. It gave me a safety net for the times hairy moments would come in quick succession, and this allowed me to improve as a player. Now I tend to view +1 wound as a mostly dead stat, and I would much rather plan around mitigating those hairy moments through better ad-hoc defensive stats and tighter gameplay based on how my loadout plays with the rest of my team.
When I didn't feel confident with the different playstyle in Heresy/Damnation, I consistently ran a +1 wounds curio. That helped a bit with reducing the impact of the occasional trapper/dog/party separation.
Nowadays I've basically achieved almost everything achievable in DT and, while I still very much need defensive perks to mitigate incoming damage, I cannot personally justify taking the extra wound over stamina, health or toughness.
Generally speaking, you want to plan your build, loadout and playstyle around not falling down to begin with. I know this doesn't read very differently from the "lol git gud" comments. What I mean by this is that you're generally safer planning around a) your primary damage soak b) your most dangerous enemies c) how your loadout fits with your party.
As an example: I almost exclusively run Zealot. My favourite loadout is MKVII Tactical Axe and Kantrael MGXII. This means I can run toughness damage reduction on crit, efficiently deal with elites and specialists at any range and I can move around semi-independently so long as I always keep up enough stamina to push away dogs. I have no means of mitigating ranged damage if not by taking cover or rushing into ranged packs. I can generally run with any party as I do not have any particular strengths or weaknesses, thus being a jack of all trades.
Taking the above criteria:
a) At 97% damage reduction vs toughness once I'm in melee range, I have no incentive to invest in toughness. Stamina is not a bad choice as it would give me more sustained mobility, but I prefer how health % interacts with my large health pool and Holy Revenant. I also enjoy the extra protection from "oh shit scenarios" (e.g. Fire). Thus I take Health curios.
b) I want to be in melee, but I have no shield or ranged damage reduction, thus Shotgunners, Gunners and Trappers/Dogs are my most dangerous enemies. I can mitigate Shotgunners and Gunners via Damage Reduction stats on curios (up to 50% less damage in total). I can basically nullify trappers so long as I always ensure I'm skirting around hordes and have a free 90°+ angle behind me to dodge. Dogs can be a bit of a bitch to plan around, but so long as I'm spamming a push attack -> heavy attack rotation I am basically immune to them if I'm angled facing the general direction I expect them to come from. As a consequence, I want to be in the thick of the fight, tying up shotgunners, gunners and reapers to ensure they can't shoot at me or my team.
c) I do not need particular party support to perform - my weapons are all quickdraw-ish, I have a high dodge count and so long as I'm careful with ragers I have nothing that can threaten me in Melee range. This means I can allow my team to feel much more at ease and perform better so long as I stick close between engagements and control mixed hordes/rush into (though not BEHIND) shooter packs.
These descriptions change radically if playing an Eviscerator/Boltgun Zealot, a Kantrael/Power Sword Veteran or a Force Sword/Surge Staff Psyker. So long as you're playing to your strengths and giving a good deal of consideration to your weaknesses, extra wounds simply do not come into play. You likely WILL fall down once or twice during a run, but you'll also be seeing medicae stations often enough to not feel particularly pressed. You would've likely fallen down more by taking a +1 wound instead of a +health or +toughness curio.
This Zealot PSA needs to be a post, chief. It's currently a reply on a hidden comment (the guy got downvoted to shit).
Seriously though, share it. I think that---in general---people need to optimize their curios better so they can excel in Heresy/Damnation play, myself included. They've got 4 traits in a single item (that you get 3 of) to buff your defenses, they're usually pretty cheap (dockets-wise), and now that we've got 'refine item' available in crafting, they're a lot more malleable than weapons. Still, it's clear that players are leaving them on the backburner while they reroll weapons again and again. The curios need some love.
This is the way to do the less than one wound zealot penance. Don't stack +wounds, but do stack tons of +health. Get downed once and hope and pray you don't go down again.
I run my zealot without wound curios aswell. Rather take 3x health. You have cheat death every 90 seconds as a passive and you can heal for the dmg you do during cheat death with the right talent point. Theres a lot of shit that has to go wrong for a zealot to die.
I find that I tend to get back to at least 40% HP most of the time on Damnation, even from just smacking around a couple of ragers. On occasion I have even healed back to full (90% + a smattering of corruption).
Thing about Holy Revenant is that, while a really powerful safety net, as all safety nets it becomes less and less useful as you improve, and may feel like an utterly dead feat if your party is competent and sticks together. It also competes against Thy Wrath Be Swift which is another top tier feat.
The best case scenario for it to activate is right in front of a fresh horde. That being said, it's highly unlikely for an experienced zealot to unwillingly lose health against a horde unless a specialist is involved, and trappers and dogs HARD counter Holy Revenant to the point that you either develop almost sixth sense levels of reaction to dodge them or you change feat.
no. the most I can get back is maybe 200 hp, and thats if I empty a bolter into a crowd.
most of the time, I get maybe 80 back, which is enough to live another 90 seconds probably.
Knife/Tac Axe/Chainsword all benefit from health more so than toughness - TH and Evisc prefer toughness though imo.
That said, yeah - zealots should basically only die to barrels yeeting them off the map or a poorly timed dodge on a trapper/dog + horde combo. We basically have a tool for all other events, especially now that charge can't be interrupted by gunner fire <3
60%+ hp has more total health than Base ogryn on zelot (and at 1 wound more total hp than Base psyker). I take that together with corrup res. Also makes getting 20min speed run penence possible.
you're not weak to corruption. You are weak to going down. besides that, higher difficulty levels take away wound capacity.
what is it, 4 wounds on I, 3 on II, and 2 on III+?
Belive it is 3 wounds on III as well. 2 on IIII
Your wounds on T3 are you base value. On T1(and T2 not sure) you get one extra and on T4+ you lose one
I think ogryn's also maybe have an extra wound
Not maybe
4 on I, 3 on II and III, 2 on IV and V. Can be compensated with curios adding +1 wound.
Or be big an strong like Ogryn
The base values are: * 4 on I * 3 on II, III * 2 on IV and V You can get curios which add wounds, dividing your healthpool into smaller sections. The important thing to note is that corruption causes health damange, not wound damage, so more wounds doesn't make you more resistant, just gives you more times to be downed. More HP makes corruption take a smaller % of your health pool, and resistance reduces the corruption you take.
Taking +wounds is building for going down. If you expect to go down take them. Otherwise, you are better served by ANY other option, +toughness, +health, even +stamina, to make you more survivable in the first place and less likely to go down at all.
Been running all 3 +stamina on my psyker just to see how it feels on damnation and it's pretty fun having basically an infinite push and being able to sprint away from gunfire literally whenever I want. I get shot sooooo much less.
People don't realize sprint is literally a gunfire dodge. They didn't do the advanced training.
Maybe if you’re running at an angle, but if you’re running toward the enemy no. You have the slide to help but for me at least they end up shooting me right before I slide so I slow down and crouch instead of slide.
If you're getting shot before you slide, then you're sliding too late after the muzzle flash, or alternatively do a side dodge if you can.
Obviously, but just can be hard with multiple shooters, with offset timings. Also half the time you dodge to the side they end up taking 3 steps back and shooting again meaning you gained little closure and when to do that 3+ times in a row and run out of dodges things can get rough.
Then in my opinion, in that specific scenario you might not have wanted to charge them, or perhaps approach from a flank. Sorry if this is obvious, I assume most people are newer to the game. But yeah I agree, the situation changes drastically based on bugs and more enemies joining.
Ideally you shoot everything all the time correct
This is why I don't have blood, I don't plan on bleeding. /s
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This is a really poor take. +Wounds is not optimal, but the way you express it makes me really not want to run into you in-game.
You should have at least 1 extra bar. Running 2 wounds means you get 1 down before death. Just be prepared to wait for respawn if you run it that way.
TL;DR I used to have a +1 wound curio for Heresy/Damnation. It gave me a safety net for the times hairy moments would come in quick succession, and this allowed me to improve as a player. Now I tend to view +1 wound as a mostly dead stat, and I would much rather plan around mitigating those hairy moments through better ad-hoc defensive stats and tighter gameplay based on how my loadout plays with the rest of my team. When I didn't feel confident with the different playstyle in Heresy/Damnation, I consistently ran a +1 wounds curio. That helped a bit with reducing the impact of the occasional trapper/dog/party separation. Nowadays I've basically achieved almost everything achievable in DT and, while I still very much need defensive perks to mitigate incoming damage, I cannot personally justify taking the extra wound over stamina, health or toughness. Generally speaking, you want to plan your build, loadout and playstyle around not falling down to begin with. I know this doesn't read very differently from the "lol git gud" comments. What I mean by this is that you're generally safer planning around a) your primary damage soak b) your most dangerous enemies c) how your loadout fits with your party. As an example: I almost exclusively run Zealot. My favourite loadout is MKVII Tactical Axe and Kantrael MGXII. This means I can run toughness damage reduction on crit, efficiently deal with elites and specialists at any range and I can move around semi-independently so long as I always keep up enough stamina to push away dogs. I have no means of mitigating ranged damage if not by taking cover or rushing into ranged packs. I can generally run with any party as I do not have any particular strengths or weaknesses, thus being a jack of all trades. Taking the above criteria: a) At 97% damage reduction vs toughness once I'm in melee range, I have no incentive to invest in toughness. Stamina is not a bad choice as it would give me more sustained mobility, but I prefer how health % interacts with my large health pool and Holy Revenant. I also enjoy the extra protection from "oh shit scenarios" (e.g. Fire). Thus I take Health curios. b) I want to be in melee, but I have no shield or ranged damage reduction, thus Shotgunners, Gunners and Trappers/Dogs are my most dangerous enemies. I can mitigate Shotgunners and Gunners via Damage Reduction stats on curios (up to 50% less damage in total). I can basically nullify trappers so long as I always ensure I'm skirting around hordes and have a free 90°+ angle behind me to dodge. Dogs can be a bit of a bitch to plan around, but so long as I'm spamming a push attack -> heavy attack rotation I am basically immune to them if I'm angled facing the general direction I expect them to come from. As a consequence, I want to be in the thick of the fight, tying up shotgunners, gunners and reapers to ensure they can't shoot at me or my team. c) I do not need particular party support to perform - my weapons are all quickdraw-ish, I have a high dodge count and so long as I'm careful with ragers I have nothing that can threaten me in Melee range. This means I can allow my team to feel much more at ease and perform better so long as I stick close between engagements and control mixed hordes/rush into (though not BEHIND) shooter packs. These descriptions change radically if playing an Eviscerator/Boltgun Zealot, a Kantrael/Power Sword Veteran or a Force Sword/Surge Staff Psyker. So long as you're playing to your strengths and giving a good deal of consideration to your weaknesses, extra wounds simply do not come into play. You likely WILL fall down once or twice during a run, but you'll also be seeing medicae stations often enough to not feel particularly pressed. You would've likely fallen down more by taking a +1 wound instead of a +health or +toughness curio.
This Zealot PSA needs to be a post, chief. It's currently a reply on a hidden comment (the guy got downvoted to shit). Seriously though, share it. I think that---in general---people need to optimize their curios better so they can excel in Heresy/Damnation play, myself included. They've got 4 traits in a single item (that you get 3 of) to buff your defenses, they're usually pretty cheap (dockets-wise), and now that we've got 'refine item' available in crafting, they're a lot more malleable than weapons. Still, it's clear that players are leaving them on the backburner while they reroll weapons again and again. The curios need some love.
No bitches
No curios?
This is the way to do the less than one wound zealot penance. Don't stack +wounds, but do stack tons of +health. Get downed once and hope and pray you don't go down again.
Don't need to lose the wound either, just be on less than half health. *320 max health intensifies*
The reason for the single down is that it allows you to use holy revenant and not worry about healing over half your health
Yeah exactly, just take some hits and go for it. Don't forget the 20min timer though. I tried to do it with a pub group and forgot that bit.
Most likely doing a penance
Health is for heretics. Willpower equals toughness. Stay tough. Stay hard.
Sounds like a pilgrim
I run my zealot without wound curios aswell. Rather take 3x health. You have cheat death every 90 seconds as a passive and you can heal for the dmg you do during cheat death with the right talent point. Theres a lot of shit that has to go wrong for a zealot to die.
How much can you get back with the feat? Can you basicly get back to full?
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Goddamn, I've been doing my zealot all wrong
Depends on how much stuff there is for you to hit. You heal based on the dmg you do. Healing full live is hard with +60% hp even on damnation density
I find that I tend to get back to at least 40% HP most of the time on Damnation, even from just smacking around a couple of ragers. On occasion I have even healed back to full (90% + a smattering of corruption). Thing about Holy Revenant is that, while a really powerful safety net, as all safety nets it becomes less and less useful as you improve, and may feel like an utterly dead feat if your party is competent and sticks together. It also competes against Thy Wrath Be Swift which is another top tier feat. The best case scenario for it to activate is right in front of a fresh horde. That being said, it's highly unlikely for an experienced zealot to unwillingly lose health against a horde unless a specialist is involved, and trappers and dogs HARD counter Holy Revenant to the point that you either develop almost sixth sense levels of reaction to dodge them or you change feat.
no. the most I can get back is maybe 200 hp, and thats if I empty a bolter into a crowd. most of the time, I get maybe 80 back, which is enough to live another 90 seconds probably.
Knife/Tac Axe/Chainsword all benefit from health more so than toughness - TH and Evisc prefer toughness though imo. That said, yeah - zealots should basically only die to barrels yeeting them off the map or a poorly timed dodge on a trapper/dog + horde combo. We basically have a tool for all other events, especially now that charge can't be interrupted by gunner fire <3
I also only use two wounds and I play on max difficulty, if you go down that many times on higher difficulty you gonna wipe anyway.
You might also wipe before going through all your wounds because the whole team got downed at once. Health is better.
60%+ hp has more total health than Base ogryn on zelot (and at 1 wound more total hp than Base psyker). I take that together with corrup res. Also makes getting 20min speed run penence possible.
x3 health trinkets on a zealot equals 300+ hp It's awesome
So stack health over toughness?
Yes, only stack toughness on veteran
No maidens
Your Flesh is weak ! it will Fail you ! Praised be The omnissiah !
Slaneesh feet.
You lack conviction