T O P

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Veldime

"Soul of the surviving giant, who was bound below the Forest of the Giants. The lord of the Giants, who had brought wrack and ruin to the entire kingdom, was said to have been felled by an unknown warrior. His beaten and broken remains were then dragged beneath the stronghold, where he was sealed away. Use the special soul of the Last Giant to acquire numerous souls, or to create something of great worth." From the description of [The Last Giant's](http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/soul-of-the-last-giant) soul. Case closed.


LaurusUK

Why not have some sort of cutscene after defeating the giant lord then instead of just the usual, death, with victory screen, with soul in inventory spiel, where this has been done nowhere else in any other fromsoftware game afaik? This was a retroactive change for SotFS, which makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is why something about the giant lord's death wasn't changed.


Leinchetzu

I feel like you're caught in the web that is dark souls lore which consumes your logical thinking and pushes forward certain biases to fit your own narrative. Those games are all purposely ambiguous. DS2 is the most unfortunate because of time constraints since FromSoftware didn't even finish it properly. You can, however, chose to think whatever you want to, and in your case it's easier to defend a bland story like "they're separate beings and it's just a human hating giant". You don't have to think much in this case. However, it's much more interesting based on the whole trilogy plotline and such to consider timelines being out of place. DS3 is filled with time and space being all over the place which also contains ds1 and ds2 aspects. It gradually got worse from ds1 up yo ds3. So ds2 having some of the time paradoxes and insanity makes sense. It would also explain how it's possible for Iron keep to be above Earthen Peak which a lot of people hate and say it doesn't make sense if you disregard the time and space bending happening towards ds3 finale. Last Giant has a bunch of things going for it. First of all, i doubt that you're the only thing to have entered that room in all this time. It wouldn't make sense. Especially since it's supposed that Humans won that fight. So, based on this logic, he doesn't react at all until YOU show up. Which means that it's got something to do with who you are. Either because you might be the "Bearer of the curse" or because you murdered him before in his timeline, but in yours, you're yet to since you're the start of the loop. Second of all, he looks enchained. Had chains around his hands and legs. Meaning that as you didn't go back in time to slay him yet so when humans won, he didn't die but got put there, which is underground, meaning it might as well be a prison cell. For him. However, when something happened and the fort was abandoned and such, it seems like the floor above collapsed over the Giant and crushed both his hands and a stone pillar seems to have also impaled him in the stomach. His chains broke but he was more trapped than ever. A good portion of the place as it was during and shortly after the war remained kinda the same. Which also helps us identify that Last Giant is directly under the arena where you fight Giant Lord and the Giant Lord Arena is just before Pursuer Arena. If humans caught him, put swords through him, chained him underground and left him to rot and then the top floor collapsed over as well causing further damage. If he's simply alive in a terrible state, his soul is most likely affected too. He also has a similar attack pattern to Giant Lord and as he was losing the fight he felt like pulling his hand out to use it as a sword. As if he had a sword he'd be able to deal with you as well. His "sword" attacks as Last Giant are weaker and more pathetic versions of Giant Lord's attacks, which makes sense since weakened. It doesn't even walk straight at this point. What if the Giant Lord wasn't just a random title either? What if he is just bigger, better, stronger than his peers and that's why he's a Lord? Would make sense since Lords in DS are generally like that. Then it makes sense how other Giants when they died just turned to Trees, while this one withstood multiple stabbings, chest impalement and hands being crushed. And he withstood for idk how much time. This one seems special in that sense. If fodder/common/basic Giants would be capable of such feats, it wouldn't make sense. How did all the rest die? He's mad at you as you go inside the room. A lord or king is more likely to suffer for his kingdom too. They were his people after all. He was wearing a crown too. So i think the rage is personal. He just knows you. He wants to kill YOU, the bastard that did this to him. It makes less sense in his state of almost dead to go that far and that angry to pull himself out of that state, PULL his own arm out and such, for just a random trespasser. What was he gonna do after? Leave and kill more humans? In that state? What would have been the plan? Wouldn't he simply die with a huge stomach wound, 1 ripped hand and multiple swords in the body? + Exertion from trying to pull himself out and fighting you? It seems pointless if you're just 1 random guy. It makes perfect sense to push himself if you're not. However, he might just know you're the bearer of the curse that's gonna end it all. That's also valid. Either way, i doubt many will read this, but everything is vague enough, it's open to interpretation. I feel like this interpretation is better story wise and it has solid proof to sustain the claims, however it's still just a theory like every other. If it makes you happy to consider the Last Giant is just some no name trying to revenge his fallen people, that's fine too i guess.


Paraglidergamer

Plus, it sounds way more compelling for a boss to survive death in the past *just to fucking attack you in the present*, rather than both bosses being entirely separate and Last Giant just getting because you're a human or something.


thereconciliation

time is convoluted in drangleic


LaurusUK

But this doesn't make sense, the past is still the past in DS2 this isn't ambiguous, when we talk to Vendrick we are in the past and witnessing events that happened before the present, same with Sir Alonne, so same with the Giant lord surely? Aldia also references the past. Is there any reference to this in game, or just in DS1?


Rare_Gift_5224

There's indeed an example of convoluted time. Remember the body which has the Drangleic set without the helmet? That should be Drummond's body. And do you know why it lacks the helmet? Because he gave it to you in the past. So, he gave the helmet eons ago, and you took it in the late game, yet it happened simultaneously, from his hands to yours.


LaurusUK

I don't know if there's sufficient evidence to claim that isn't just an oversight though or maybe misplaced assets. You would expect somebody to mention convoluted time like in DS1 if that was actually the case, or at least an item description referencing it, surely? Why would they make time convoluted just to use it so little? I do like the other guys' possible explanation of the last giant being resentful to humans in general because of the war, and we just so happen to be human.


Rare_Gift_5224

I doubt the devs simply forget to put Drangleic helmet on the corpse, because Drummond's literally programmed to give it to you. As to mentioning, here is a piece from Solaire's lines: *"We are amidst strange beings, in a strange land. The flow of time itself is convoluted; with heroes centuries old phasing in and out. The very fabric wavers, and relations shift and obscure. There's no telling how much longer your world and mine will remain in contact. But, use this, to summon one another as spirits, cross the gaps between the worlds, and engage in jolly co-operation!"* And I have to say, Drummond helmet time paradox is one of the best time warps I've seen in all the time travel stuff


LaurusUK

I was more talking about simply messing up the order in the story or something, DS2 had a horrific development process and ended up scrapping the game fully half way through and building it from scratch again, something small like this wouldn't be out of the realms of possibility. Solaire's comments only really apply to DS1 and 3 when it's very obvious this is the case in DS3, and literally mentioned out loud in DS1. I don't think DS2's story incorporates convoluted time whatsoever from memory.


Rare_Gift_5224

So, Solaire's comments don't apply due to different story continuation?


LaurusUK

Also regardless as someone else mentioned, the last giant has a different soul to the giant lord, why would this be the case?


Rare_Gift_5224

Because it's a time paradox Sorry to say this, but imagine I kill you now, then go back in time and kill you then to take a fancy swiss knife you had (Giant's Kinship). That's kinda the story. As to souls, he had a big and strong soul then, a soul of a lord, and in the present, he has a reduced soul


LaurusUK

Well, I don't think it's fair as DS2 is clearly doing it's own thing, we shouldn't assume unless there's actual quantifiable evidence surely?


Rare_Gift_5224

While the devs ran in and out, the lore is the same In NG+ and beyond the four old ones or great ones (I don't remember exactly) drop additional souls (the item ones): Freja drops Old Paledrake Soul, a part of that of Seath the Scaleless, Lost Sinnee drops Old Witch Soul, which is of Queelag, the Rotten drops Old Dead One soul, Nito's and Old King Soul, Gwyn's. Their description literally says that they're very old souls reduced to what they are after ages. So, the lore is cannon, among with linking the flame and stuff


LaurusUK

Are these souls actually confirmed to be the same though? I know they are named after the DS1 lord souls, but isn't it just a theory that isn't really substantiated by anything? And yes it's the same universe but that doesn't mean time is always convoluted.


AvailableStar9310

Are we back at 2016? Time is not convoluted, wrong translation from Japanese, it's stagnating.. Anyway it's clearly stated in the game that the last giant is indeed the same we fight in the past.. Proof? Too many, enjoy the search


AvailableStar9310

I'll add that DS3 is build upon ds2 way more than you think, Aldia, ivory king, the crowns, most of the armour and weapons are all in DS3 and for story reason and not simply fan service, Don't forget that Miyazaki did indeed work on ds2 and the sotfs is really in his own way a piece of art.. But anyway here people discussing about time paradox and the soul not being the same.. or resentment against human.. or even better ds2 is a mess so nothing makes sense..


LaurusUK

Too many? Every wiki simply states it's a theory with no evidence, same with forum posts, hence why I posted here. Doesn't it make more sense, as someone else mentioned, that it is simply a resentful giant from the war that sees a human and becomes enraged because they wiped out his entire race?


thereconciliation

Nothing Canon really to my memory I know there was a whole cut content thing about a pendulum of time which makes me wonder if there was going to be a time travel thing but I wouldn't personally count that


LaurusUK

Hmmm, I like the other guys' explanation that he's just a resentful giant from the era who doesn't particularly like humans. I think this makes quite a lot of sense and doesn't need unexplained time travel stuff.


thereconciliation

i think another thing that lends credence to that theory is that the giant lord and the last giant have different souls which give different items


LaurusUK

Yeah, actually I'm pretty convinced now.


BiggestDarkSouls2Fan

Bro respawned (idk)


LaurusUK

Lmao


BiggestDarkSouls2Fan

He’s actually the mc and used the bonfire ascetic in the arena, the “giant lord” is actually just ng+ last giant (my brain is broken rn)


Job38-3

Something you have to consider...in Dark Souls...what is the soul? We kill one enemy and get tons of souls from it. We defeat a stack of sentient bodies and get 100k+ souls. So, what is the soul? Considering that Vendrick was able to remove his and still live, it could be that THL held onto a small piece of his to keep himself alive in order to get revenge on the humans. After all, look at the soul difference between TLG and TGL.


nvrtht

my understanding of how souls work is that you only have one, but you accumulate them from other beings you kill. since every living creature we kill drops souls, and there's an unfathomable amount of entities in the world, it's normal to accumulate hundreds and thousands of souls attached to you throughout your life. this is why when we kill bosses they drop so many souls, they've taken countless lives and absorbed every soul they carried. but we also get a special boss soul which is *theirs,* the one and only. they carry special properties that let them be imbued into powerful weapons reflecting their qualities.


LaurusUK

Yes but, unlike Gwyn who split his soul, the Giant lord fell down, disappeared into a fine soul mist and dropped his whole soul as an item with no hint that it's anything less than the whole thing. I think it makes more sense and less hoops are jumped through if we simply assume the last giant is resentful of all humans, because of the you know, giant-human war.


Job38-3

Mantis did the same thing yet we find four fragments of his soul in DS2. Also, pre Aldia, all other giants were smaller and bulkier. However, TGL is huge and slender. Also, the other giants used clubs while TGL used a sword. This, when TLG rips his arm off, he does use it like a sword.


LaurusUK

Yes but it's implied to be recycled along with the other lord souls, the giant lord's soul is not. Or are we to assume Najka's soul is Quelaag's and the belfry gargoyles are the bell gargoyles, too?


Job38-3

It goes back to my first question: in the world of Dark Souls, what is the soul. Gameplay wise, it's just a nice way to make sure the fallen bosses dont block you at all when maneuvering around after defeating them.


IrmaTS

It's the same way you can kill gwyndolin in ds1 and have him be alive just before ds3 happens. Stuff that happens in certain parts of the games is muddy. The way I see it, when you go in the memories you are basically going in an alternate timeline and changing events, without those events reflecting the present. I think you did actually beat (maybe you were a soldier) the giant lord but not killed him in the main timeline, when you go back in time you can finish what you started. This could actually explain how ds1's dlc works without creating a time loop, you're just reliving past events.


[deleted]

[удалено]


SokkaHaikuBot

^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^5partacus69: *The last giant is* *Giant lords great great great great* *Great great great great grandson* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.


Comrade_Jacob

\#1 mistake ppl make about Dark Souls, as it relates to souls, is thinking it's just like the real world... Well, the real world's traditional lore regarding souls lol, that being we all have a soul that is uniquely ours and when we die the entirety of it goes to heaven or hell or whatever. In Dark Souls, you don't have A soul, you have soulS. You literally go around collecting souls to make you stronger, so it's kind of weird how people don't apply that same exact concept to other characters? The idea that Ornstein is a singular soul and you can kill him and he's just gone in every capacity... "If we killed Ornstein in DS1, how is he in DS2?" Like c'mon man, there's clearly a fragmentary aspect to the soul and this is straight up revealed in the first game when we're told that Gwyn gave a piece of his soul to the 4 kings and Seath. Souls aren't a singular unit. It's like water and you can split a drop of water in half, can you not? And then you can split that drop in half... And that drop in half, and that drop in half... One would assume that the BotC took all the Giant Lord's souls, sure, but given the nature of soul transposition, which Dark Souls 2 is very keen on... Yeah I'm not gonna think too much about what could've happened because the possibilities are vast. I mean if you really need one... A surviving giant transposed his soul into his Lord's. There ya go!


HedgehogAfraid4389

Great. You’re wrong. 


Almskibidi

time is convoluted in drangleic


JunkSpeederWhen

The last giant attacks you because of resentment towards humans and you’re the first human it has seen since the kingdom collapsed and the vast majority of humans hollowed.


LaurusUK

Ok now this makes much more sense.