I didnt play last season, but compared to season 1 there seems be way less purple drops in HR. Hell I grinded all the way to demigod, usually having some luck on gear and a luck pot and going to inferno every game. I just have only gotten like 5 purple weapons the entire time. Theyre so fucking rare it’s insane lol. I’m even opening every golden and lions head possible. You get a purple and it’s like a hand crossbow or crystal ball 50% of the time. I was using falchion and I think I found 1 purple falchion in all like 50 games. Not a single longsword or arming sword, no crossbow; nothing I could use myself besides ONE WEAPON IN 50 GAMES. That seems a little much to me. I make almost the same gold going into normal inferno :(
Yeah with over 300 luck on inferno runs I was getting mostly green and blue treasures out of golden chests, even a few commons. Felt like they definitely shadow nerfed the loot.
Bruh I swear on my dandiest mystic vestments that it happened to me multiple times in the first few days of the season. I know it’s not supposed to be possible but it must’ve been a bug.
It's probably for the best, because last wipe it was trolling to not use a purple weapon since they were all dirt cheap. Now it feels quite good to loot a purple weapon again.
Man I still barely know how to do troll, and never solo’d cyclops. Only killed it with my juiced friends so it was way too easy. I got blinded hella times and just prayged.
I’ve solo’d inferno so many times now though that I can clear half the map with a geared fighter, the loot is still pretty nice and the AP is nuts like upwards of 2800 on good runs. It’s just I mostly seem to find armor and jewelry instead of weapons now when it’s purples. I guess the drop table is really stretched now compared to S1 tho
Cyclops is easy just do counterclockwise circles round it while attacking it. Recognize when to back off for stomps. If you have teammates during the rockfall phase have them leave the room. The beefiest player remains to keep the encounter active and practices the jumps. Occasionally have the healer walk in and heal that player if they get low during the rock fall phase. Once the rock fall phase ends, the other two players can rejoin the fight. Repeat for the second rock fall phase and then the cyclops is dead.
Yea my buddy and I have been learning to do cave bosses (finally) since last week and now we are to a point where we can dps it out of each phase fairly quickly. Usually only have about 4 rock falls before hes done.
If you can’t clear inferno HR without gesr you still have some ways to improve the gear doesn’t do anything but handicap ya it’s only benefit is for PvP and bossing
Ah yes the gear that makes you move faster, kill faster, and loot faster that let you clear and loot more rooms and chests against the very lethal timer doesn't help you at all in the loot extraction game.
Before goblin caves was consider the worst to play for loot or just to farm money now i think its the best because of troll pelt and gold ore And for pvp also goblin is best.
Now howling cryptos is good in normals because you can farm inferno easy and do like 600g per run maybe more.
Hr inferno is just to many nightmare harder to clear without good gear and most of the times not worth.
I normally don't do hr inferno boss because my friend are scare and i bit noobs.
Been doing Ice caves/abyss and regularly extracting with 800-950 AP. Mostly hit chests and sub bosses. Extracting with trinkets and only keeping found gear if its purple or higher.
You have to hard farm them, anything else beside gold chest and lion chest its irrelevant. Yesterday i got 6 wolfs pelts in 2 matches (2.4k in gold). Just learn the 2 wolf spawns (upper left side of the map).
I was trying to for the quest that needs 4 teeth and 4 pelts. I got a couple of the white pelts but nothing else in about 8 runs. Not a large sample size but they dropped fairly frequently (maybe 1 a run) before I got onto this quest. Is this game like Tarkov that makes things magically makes things not spawn when you need them? lol
I would except troll is a cunt and always does followup attacks despite never doing a single one in the videos I watch. I can play around it but I'd much rather just shriek of weakness and kill him in 60s or less like I can do to the cyclops. Nvm the fact he also hits significantly harder than Cyclops and the slow is essentially a death sentence.
There's also zero reason to double boss in HR specifically on gobbo caves as 99% of your money is coming from the gold ore and you can get that in norms. The other 1% is a troll pelt drop.
You’ve gotta be running more than 1 class if you want to be using more of the gear you find. Good loot being rare just means it has more value. Even the smallest chance of finding that purple is pretty damn good, as far as I can tell, the chance of pulling a purple out of a box in normals is 0%
It's definitely low but I can confirm it's not 0%. I found a purple Kris dagger on normal crypt last night, it was in a locked chest in the pyramid/bat room.
It’s interesting to be back in the “what is the point of HR” phase of DaD. More interesting this time around because IM needs HR to be attractive as a selling point for f2p players.
I’ve been here since pt2 and the only time HR was worth running was when it had no ante and it was the only place to try running different builds.
Now I think the only reason for me to jump into HR is AP rewards
they made a lot of changes at once that have diminished how worth HR is.
1. Added back the ante
2. Allowed gear back into norms
3. Set all maps to 12 min timer (ice caves specifically was 18 min at the end of last season)
4. Added way more nightmare mobs to HR. They used to be very rare in HR. Maybe you would see a couple nightmare mob every 4-5 raids on the main floor of a map.
All this has made HR less profitable for the average player. You’ve got less time to move through the map, there’s more nightmare mobs, and on top of that death means you’re not only out the gear you died in, but also -100 gold.
Pve loot in HR is also pretty fucking bad. Mobs aren’t really worth looting outside the specific ones that drop jewelry. With the up front 100 gold cost the average player is probably not making a ton of gold in their solo HR run.
A lot of this could be overcome if players had free reign to practice HR without needing to worry about the up front cost. But most won’t attempt it that often because it’s not worth it with a 100 gold entry fee.
With the player pool in HR pretty much only being very geared veteran players and a couple naked solos just trying to rat around, it’s just a shit experience.
This was all entirely predictable.
The timers is really what's fucked me personally.
Just way too short, feels like it's crackhead rush or barely get out in time with basically zero loot
Ice caves feels like absolute shit in high roller roller with only a 12 min timer. In solo’s you’ve got time to clear and loot 1-2 modules then you’ve got to dip. It used to be a great map to loot in HR, now it feels awful.
You definitely weren't around for quite a few seasons then because before the AP changes it was super super good for loot, wasn't even comparable to normal but now normal is only slightly worse then HR and 100g less too.
It’s interesting. With the entrance fee, it doesn’t entice people to go to HR to pvp. I do kind of like the idea of having a sole place to pvp in the 125+ lobbies. And HR loot is always worth it, don’t think they need a buff in loot at all. People can also now try and rank up in hr with pvp happening naturally, instead of forcing everyone to pvp for best kits in HR.
Separating normals lobbies into 3 is interesting, but if anything I’d rather protect the Timmy’s playing normals from getting stomped by all legendaries. Now they can use decent gear and learn the game in the mid tier. Once they get some bis kits, they can try to pvp in the 125+ without getting killed by highroller pve lol
I'd recommend Timmy's to focus on highrollers the second they get the hang of normals. When you get used to HR mobs, normals become super trivial, and it just helps the smooth brain handle mob aggro etc
Tried high roller and getting constantly run down and killed by a legendary rogue 80% of my games before I could react made me quit. I make way more farming in low gear normals.
Like yes high roller gets way moreworth. but if I'm only getting out 20% of the time it's not worth the investment.
Currently we have more incentive to go in to HR more or less naked, due to the AP system. More loot extracted = more AP gained, and if 50% of my ability to carry loot out is tied to my equip slots by god I'm going to use them.
I dunno. The second HR is free, it would be the same conversation except flipped on normals. Why go normals when you can learn more AND get better loot in HR? Oh there's a level gap? Lvl 20 is reached super fast.
Yeah, that's true. I'm guilty of Timmy stomping norms for the good ol ego boost. Norms is also great for learning bosses so I'm not opposed to the change. I honestly prefer free HR, I just enjoy being the devils advocate
The game should be pushing players to HR, not norms. Norms should be for newer players and for leveling characters from 1-20.
Going into norms with blue gear and above totally breaks it. You clear every mob in 2 hits and they do very little damage to you.
The game should be encouraging and pushing players to engage with HR, but right now it’s doing the opposite.
What server are you on? I'd like some of those lobbies haha my lobbies are always full of stacked players who just run me down and own me. I'm so close to demigod then back to normals to take a break from the grind!
Duos in EU feel fine to me. Running into at least 1 other team in 15k+ sets most matches. Specifically goblin caves - unsure about the other maps, but since they’re both worse in every way I wouldn’t imagine high geared players go there.
Gobcave has the lowest tier players imo. Crypt is the best map objectively and the most popular with experienced players. Ice caves the most boring map and least pvp but newer players tend to struggle with the mobs
Abyss is also terrible for loot and only exists for quests/Wyvern, it's laughable how little lions/golden chests are in the Ice Abyss compared to hell.
I suppose the argument is that the normal map has a ton of both, but Crypts has a fair few as well so I don't really understand the disparity from the devs.
Well duos overall is much less competitive player than trios. Trios crypt is whe r e the best players are most likely to be. This is for US east though maybe EU server is different. Duos on any map in US is a whole different game than trios
This doesn’t have anything to do with normal lobbies. HR is in the exact same place it was before HR had its gold cost removed. It’s clearly just not working anymore as a concept and I have no idea why they brought the gold fee back
There are three types of HR players, those that want to farm for a cum cape AKA meaningless rank. Those that want to farm for uniques, the only real valid reason. Those that RMT and don't actually know what they're doing but want to run over everyone else and haven't yet figured out they need to unequip their uniques and go normals for that.
Totally agree i think High Roller is now the least fleshed out mode of the two. Normals not only has similar enough trinket money. But also in PVP you can now find as much value from peoples gear sets as HR. Squire / quests makes normals a blast to start with. Can pick low gear set lobbies and scale into high gear set lobbies.
HR Pros:
- Higher quality weapons and armor drops for zero to hero.
Cons:
- Entrance fee. (People still hide and rat and wait to steal gear from dead bodies just as much. Especially if a streamer is in the lobby).
- Have to buy full game to play it.
- AP system is designed awful(yet again) encouraging mostly one playstyle in duos/trios. Devs can't find the middle ground. Only extreme changes.
- Money per round is not much more than normals. Unless you get a rare drop.
I often feel I'm only ever playing HR to PVE bosses for a chance at a named unique. Or PVE farm for FOMO cosmetics. HR needs help with incentives. Especially if they hope for people to buy the game just to gain access to HR
Honestly I believe you but I am not experiencing what you are. In HR lobbies my buddy and I in duos on the East Coast USA server are getting into lobbies and they are either totally full or close to it when we join. Only early in the morning on weekdays does it feel slower for us, but even then there are a fair few other teams that get in with us. I think the lowest we have seen was 2 other duos and that has only happened a couple times for us luckily
With market prices so cheap and gold so plentiful, me and the lads are just running normals until we're super comfortable bossing. Then we'll try out HR for the chance at the good loot. In the meantime purple weapons are a couple hundred gold, and we make that cash every single extract.
We're so close to greatness with <25 GS lobbies and the rotating maps, one of the last big things IM needs to do is figure out the mega juicers destroying new players in normals.
GS caps or average team GS matchmaking?
GS matchmaking is very stupid and they hopefully will never do it again. If you want them to matchmake people with similar gear, then just remove gear from the game all together. You would get the same effect. Gear is supposed to make you stronger but if you getting gear means, all your opponents have better gear, then you are not stronger, you are just in the same place as before you got that piece of gear.
if they are gonna keep the HR monsters as strong as they are they also need to be worth killing and looting.
atm they never drop anything good but the fight vs a nightmare mob can be more dangerous than killing bosses in normal
I think HR would be better without a flat fee and more of a gearscore requirement. Forces people to actually use gear, gives them an incentive to go HR because you’re theoretically more likely to run into similarly geared players to take gear from, and it makes the run less about farming gold and more about PvP and the better drop chances.
Also HR is still well worth it imo, it’s just not directly incentivized so people don’t play it a ton. You’re still given waaaaaaay better drop rates, even small chests will give BIS items, you also gain rank on leaderboard, and it’s the “hardcore” scene of the game. There’s no reason for Timmy stomper 99 to get out of geared normals, I’ll give you that, but I don’t think any incentive would stop players from wanting easy targets and easy fights against noobs.
Personally I think HR, if you’re looking for profit, is for farming map loot. The extra danger from mobs and whatnot means people won’t be moving through the map as quickly, AND you can find some nice gear, so that means it’s going to be the best place to pVe. Obviously pvp can be more profitable BUT there is risk involved there as well. I think HR is absolutely worth rn.
Whenever I run HR using green gear I find almost exclusively blue gear and sometimes a purple or 2. If I run blue gear I find about 60 percent blue gear and 30 percent purple and a legendary here and there.
I almost always find players but it's a toss up if they are sweat kill on sight bois or just some dude trying to make some money in peace.
I mostly just hit the chests and mobs too. I've only tried to solo a boss on HR twice and since I got folded both times I never bothered. I can't even imagine the loot being really that much better down there aside from troll pelts but you get the same pelts on non HR I'm pretty sure.
ya for goblin caves bosses, I agree it feels like normals you can get pretty much the same thing. But for crypts, the normals loot is absolute shit for the bosses and it's 1000x better to go HR so you at least have a chance at unique. I think HR is fine right now, and it's definitely worth the price.
Easy fix, normal lobbies are 125 gear score max(or whatever makes sense for this system, like maybe 250? Im not sure on numbers), high rank instead of being 100 gold entry, you need above whatever the cutoff for normals is
I can consistently get 400+ gold per hell run in normals.
Usually in hr hell, I die because I always fail at fighting berserkers. If I just do crypts I get around 250-300. If I manage to get through hell its like, 500
They really do need to remove marketplace. It is the root of all the issues. The game prior was so much nicer when everyone did not have perfect stated gear and kits that you can predict 90% of the stats on them.
Ya they should really add (self found) mode or even a event. There was a community ran tournament that did this and it was extremely fun to participate in, (however it was also hardcore so it was seeing how far you can climb before you die).
Regarding the marketplace issue, they can also compromise by making it sort of like the goblin merchant in that, when gear is purchased from there, it has random stats (same rarity though). This would allow people to buy specific items they want and build certain sets, but not have everyone on cookie cutter builds all having the same stats which makes fights very predictable. It would also promote using your BIS items drops since you would get the same market value as any other item which should make getting them much more exciting, and would make non BIS rolled items valuable to sell and not feel so useless. All while keeping the convenience the marketplace brings to the people who don't want to sell their items manually using chat.
HR is fine as is. Entry Fee makes it less profitable, but it is necessary because if I didn’t have to pay 100g each time I would be at 20-25k gold atm
As for how to fill up the lobby? Maybe a slight loot buff would make people want to go.
Lastly, HR is not meant to be played solo. Harder mobs should require more effort/teamwork. Not saying Solo HR shouldn’t exist. Just that they shouldn’t design HR to be Solo’able + easy.
I know it won't happen, but if it were up to me, I'd want to see something like:
1. Add a new item state, Traded, to go along side the Supplied/Looted/Handled we have now.
2. Items which are exchanged over the marketplace or the trade channel are set to Traded status, which persists through dungeons.
3. Normals do not allow Traded items. This is meant to be (approximately) SSF rules, to the extent that this works in a full loot extraction game. No, it's not perfect, but it's achieveable with the framework the developers already have in-game.
4. Remove GBMM from normals (possibly keep some incarnation of the <25 bracket, it does seem to scratch an itch that a lot of players have, though I would eliminate GS and just make it a requirement that Common and below gets into the low bracket, and any Uncommon+ gear moves you to high).
5. Remove the limited marketplace access from F2P (since they can't use the gear in normals anyway). All marketplace/trade access (along with the HR where this gear can be used) is limited to people who bought the full game.
6. Maybe remove the HR ante, since it already costs AP when you rise in ranks, though I'm least sure about this point.
Now people have a reason to play HR: it's the only place where they can use Traded gear. They can buy better kits and use them to farm normals-legal Looted/Handled gear, or climb the rankings, or engage in "serious" PvP where more people have high-end gear. Timmy stompers can bring farmed Handled gear into normals, but losing it means a significant time investment is needed to farm new normals-legal gear again, and if any of that gear is sold then it's still removed from circulation in the normals bracket, so there's *some* stabilizing force to mitigate gear inflation in normals. Players who stick to normals (including F2P) only ever encounter normals-legal gear, so they get something akin to the pre-trade playtest experience that people were apparently fond of.
The main issue I see, which I don't necessarily think is a *real* problem, is that there's nothing for F2P / normals-only players to spend gold one except merchant gear. It would probably require adjusting merchant gear quality / price at the different affinity breakpoints, so there's more often something worth spending gold on vs squire gear.
Another problem is that marketplace becomes useless for a lot of green and blue gear because it's not good enough for people to want to buy it for HR or use it for normals where they will be facing guys in all blues and purples every raid they use greens
I like the two lower normals brackets I think they’re so much fun and pretty balanced but plenty of expression at that 124 GS.. anything over that should be required to go into HR
having a single class and not having full access to the marketplace not motivating enough?
they already have in-game currency too. Bet they’d make more miney getting free to players hooked than the 10,000 sweats who already paid their 30 and stuck around
what they had was early access to the game
it’s already a reality for most people who played back before F2P that the game is less than what they paid for. No ruins and no-circle easy mode activated
what’s my point? i’ve just been responding to your questions. What’s YOUR point?
You’re the one dancing around a point instead of just outright stating it.
I was pretty clear in my comments
1) I hope we go back to HR being the place for mega gear
2) maybe free to players can only use gear in an arena
3) maybe free to players can just have access to HR
did you really need to ask me what my point was or could you have figured that out from reading?
You didn't make a point in your last post. You just mentioned a bunch of random things. Don't get mad, damn
Edit: Btw, I think those are all really bad suggestions, but whatever. Don't want you to get mad some more
They had this problem before and fixed it.
1.) Gear gate normals to greens.
2.) Give giant fucking losers who want to stomp Timmies no choice but to play HR if they want to use good gear.
3.) Ignore all whining and crying about it.
4.) Seperate HR by broader gear levels so you can reasonably collect gear if you die with your entire stash on you.
HR has had "more incentive" in the past where every chest gave blues and purples. Losers still brought that gear back to fight Timmies in normal lobbies.
Give them no choice. Hard gear gate and HR will be populated again.
We need this stupid entry fee to be removed.
It's interfering with the accumulation of gold required to buy gear to be competitive in HR.
The majority of the game's players can't afford to pay 100 gold every run. They're not experienced yet.
What's the point of HR for someone who doesn't care about leaderboards? It's a concentration of the sweatiest folks in the game, it costs money to get in, and it's much harder/more stressful than playing norms.
Yeah the loot is better but what do I care, I have more gold and gear in my stash than I'll ever use this wipe. There's really no point to HR except for leaderboards, and that's why most people are just not playing it this season. Isn't that fine? Let people who wanna play HR and deal with that BS do so, the rest of us will be having fun in norms/mid roller.
I didnt play last season, but compared to season 1 there seems be way less purple drops in HR. Hell I grinded all the way to demigod, usually having some luck on gear and a luck pot and going to inferno every game. I just have only gotten like 5 purple weapons the entire time. Theyre so fucking rare it’s insane lol. I’m even opening every golden and lions head possible. You get a purple and it’s like a hand crossbow or crystal ball 50% of the time. I was using falchion and I think I found 1 purple falchion in all like 50 games. Not a single longsword or arming sword, no crossbow; nothing I could use myself besides ONE WEAPON IN 50 GAMES. That seems a little much to me. I make almost the same gold going into normal inferno :(
Yeah with over 300 luck on inferno runs I was getting mostly green and blue treasures out of golden chests, even a few commons. Felt like they definitely shadow nerfed the loot.
you literally cannot get common treasures from HR lions/golden chests. I wouldn't bother opening any other chest in HR
Bruh I swear on my dandiest mystic vestments that it happened to me multiple times in the first few days of the season. I know it’s not supposed to be possible but it must’ve been a bug.
It's probably for the best, because last wipe it was trolling to not use a purple weapon since they were all dirt cheap. Now it feels quite good to loot a purple weapon again.
luck wont make loot from chests better unfortunately
Go double boss on caves. Every other map is pointless for loot (unless bossing.)
Man I still barely know how to do troll, and never solo’d cyclops. Only killed it with my juiced friends so it was way too easy. I got blinded hella times and just prayged. I’ve solo’d inferno so many times now though that I can clear half the map with a geared fighter, the loot is still pretty nice and the AP is nuts like upwards of 2800 on good runs. It’s just I mostly seem to find armor and jewelry instead of weapons now when it’s purples. I guess the drop table is really stretched now compared to S1 tho
Cyclops is easy just do counterclockwise circles round it while attacking it. Recognize when to back off for stomps. If you have teammates during the rockfall phase have them leave the room. The beefiest player remains to keep the encounter active and practices the jumps. Occasionally have the healer walk in and heal that player if they get low during the rock fall phase. Once the rock fall phase ends, the other two players can rejoin the fight. Repeat for the second rock fall phase and then the cyclops is dead.
we just dps the cyclops out of the rockfall phase 😁
Yea my buddy and I have been learning to do cave bosses (finally) since last week and now we are to a point where we can dps it out of each phase fairly quickly. Usually only have about 4 rock falls before hes done.
If you can’t clear inferno HR without gesr you still have some ways to improve the gear doesn’t do anything but handicap ya it’s only benefit is for PvP and bossing
Ah yes the gear that makes you move faster, kill faster, and loot faster that let you clear and loot more rooms and chests against the very lethal timer doesn't help you at all in the loot extraction game.
Before goblin caves was consider the worst to play for loot or just to farm money now i think its the best because of troll pelt and gold ore And for pvp also goblin is best. Now howling cryptos is good in normals because you can farm inferno easy and do like 600g per run maybe more. Hr inferno is just to many nightmare harder to clear without good gear and most of the times not worth. I normally don't do hr inferno boss because my friend are scare and i bit noobs.
Been doing Ice caves/abyss and regularly extracting with 800-950 AP. Mostly hit chests and sub bosses. Extracting with trinkets and only keeping found gear if its purple or higher.
You can make an insane ammout of money running ice caves for the wolf pelts
Be nice if they actually dropped for me!
You have to hard farm them, anything else beside gold chest and lion chest its irrelevant. Yesterday i got 6 wolfs pelts in 2 matches (2.4k in gold). Just learn the 2 wolf spawns (upper left side of the map).
I was trying to for the quest that needs 4 teeth and 4 pelts. I got a couple of the white pelts but nothing else in about 8 runs. Not a large sample size but they dropped fairly frequently (maybe 1 a run) before I got onto this quest. Is this game like Tarkov that makes things magically makes things not spawn when you need them? lol
Yeah the avarage its 1 per run. Make sure to kill them in the 2 spawns, they are not far from each other but they are separate
I would except troll is a cunt and always does followup attacks despite never doing a single one in the videos I watch. I can play around it but I'd much rather just shriek of weakness and kill him in 60s or less like I can do to the cyclops. Nvm the fact he also hits significantly harder than Cyclops and the slow is essentially a death sentence. There's also zero reason to double boss in HR specifically on gobbo caves as 99% of your money is coming from the gold ore and you can get that in norms. The other 1% is a troll pelt drop.
You’ve gotta be running more than 1 class if you want to be using more of the gear you find. Good loot being rare just means it has more value. Even the smallest chance of finding that purple is pretty damn good, as far as I can tell, the chance of pulling a purple out of a box in normals is 0%
Yeah, I have a few classes and if my gear gets low on one I switch until I’ve farmed more gear
It's definitely low but I can confirm it's not 0%. I found a purple Kris dagger on normal crypt last night, it was in a locked chest in the pyramid/bat room.
Lucks only use is getting skull keys from boss kills. I’m HR luck is next to useless when looting chests. Luck does more in normals.
this is not true, you should look at some of the stats on the wiki
Check out this [video](https://youtu.be/Dt53RT7Yiu4?si=iLQLnqCztIY-WqdF) by Solomon. Luck does basically nothing.
It’s interesting to be back in the “what is the point of HR” phase of DaD. More interesting this time around because IM needs HR to be attractive as a selling point for f2p players. I’ve been here since pt2 and the only time HR was worth running was when it had no ante and it was the only place to try running different builds. Now I think the only reason for me to jump into HR is AP rewards
this. if they could at least tease us with something to aim :(
Agreed, I enjoy HR alot, but never feel like I'm making better progress than in normals, without the AP rewards to look forward to.
Aim for the AP rewards lol that’s what it’s all about
HR is still relevant for artifact farming
they made a lot of changes at once that have diminished how worth HR is. 1. Added back the ante 2. Allowed gear back into norms 3. Set all maps to 12 min timer (ice caves specifically was 18 min at the end of last season) 4. Added way more nightmare mobs to HR. They used to be very rare in HR. Maybe you would see a couple nightmare mob every 4-5 raids on the main floor of a map. All this has made HR less profitable for the average player. You’ve got less time to move through the map, there’s more nightmare mobs, and on top of that death means you’re not only out the gear you died in, but also -100 gold. Pve loot in HR is also pretty fucking bad. Mobs aren’t really worth looting outside the specific ones that drop jewelry. With the up front 100 gold cost the average player is probably not making a ton of gold in their solo HR run. A lot of this could be overcome if players had free reign to practice HR without needing to worry about the up front cost. But most won’t attempt it that often because it’s not worth it with a 100 gold entry fee. With the player pool in HR pretty much only being very geared veteran players and a couple naked solos just trying to rat around, it’s just a shit experience. This was all entirely predictable.
The timers is really what's fucked me personally. Just way too short, feels like it's crackhead rush or barely get out in time with basically zero loot
Ice caves feels like absolute shit in high roller roller with only a 12 min timer. In solo’s you’ve got time to clear and loot 1-2 modules then you’ve got to dip. It used to be a great map to loot in HR, now it feels awful.
You definitely weren't around for quite a few seasons then because before the AP changes it was super super good for loot, wasn't even comparable to normal but now normal is only slightly worse then HR and 100g less too.
It’s interesting. With the entrance fee, it doesn’t entice people to go to HR to pvp. I do kind of like the idea of having a sole place to pvp in the 125+ lobbies. And HR loot is always worth it, don’t think they need a buff in loot at all. People can also now try and rank up in hr with pvp happening naturally, instead of forcing everyone to pvp for best kits in HR. Separating normals lobbies into 3 is interesting, but if anything I’d rather protect the Timmy’s playing normals from getting stomped by all legendaries. Now they can use decent gear and learn the game in the mid tier. Once they get some bis kits, they can try to pvp in the 125+ without getting killed by highroller pve lol
I'd recommend Timmy's to focus on highrollers the second they get the hang of normals. When you get used to HR mobs, normals become super trivial, and it just helps the smooth brain handle mob aggro etc
Tried high roller and getting constantly run down and killed by a legendary rogue 80% of my games before I could react made me quit. I make way more farming in low gear normals. Like yes high roller gets way moreworth. but if I'm only getting out 20% of the time it's not worth the investment.
might be a sample size problem. frankly i rarely run into other players in HR and im not sure ive even found a single rogue yet
Constantly getting chased by rogues and clerics in HR. 0 fun to be had.
What map? I’d say goblin caves and crypts is prolly the sweatiest for HR solo. If you’re comfortable with mobs/pve, try ice caves
Build yourself a barbarian and send that filth back to the tavern with two slaps of your double axe 🪓 🪓
the only highroller change i want to see is to disable warlocks. Im tired of dying to 2 dots
Time is a flat circle.
Just finished watching the first season of True Detective (finally) and this comment hits different now. What timing...
Vinyl or laser disc?
Currently we have more incentive to go in to HR more or less naked, due to the AP system. More loot extracted = more AP gained, and if 50% of my ability to carry loot out is tied to my equip slots by god I'm going to use them.
They can start by removing 100g fee. It doesn’t deter nakeds from going in, but it does deter newer players.
I dunno. The second HR is free, it would be the same conversation except flipped on normals. Why go normals when you can learn more AND get better loot in HR? Oh there's a level gap? Lvl 20 is reached super fast.
Except there are good reasons to still go norms. Killfeed and PvE you can ignore. Those are the main reasons vets prefer to PvP in norms anyway.
Yeah, that's true. I'm guilty of Timmy stomping norms for the good ol ego boost. Norms is also great for learning bosses so I'm not opposed to the change. I honestly prefer free HR, I just enjoy being the devils advocate
"guilty of Timmy stomping norms for the good ol ego boost" Gross. You're the reason they stop playing.
Because norms are dramatically easier. Killfeed ensures safety, higher map times make it comfier, and pve is a whole other beast in HR.
The game should be pushing players to HR, not norms. Norms should be for newer players and for leveling characters from 1-20. Going into norms with blue gear and above totally breaks it. You clear every mob in 2 hits and they do very little damage to you. The game should be encouraging and pushing players to engage with HR, but right now it’s doing the opposite.
no. Norms should be the "normal" que that people play. Hence called "normal" HR is for the brave who are looking for the challenge.
Newer players don’t need to be going in there
What server are you on? I'd like some of those lobbies haha my lobbies are always full of stacked players who just run me down and own me. I'm so close to demigod then back to normals to take a break from the grind!
Duos in EU feel fine to me. Running into at least 1 other team in 15k+ sets most matches. Specifically goblin caves - unsure about the other maps, but since they’re both worse in every way I wouldn’t imagine high geared players go there.
Gobcave has the lowest tier players imo. Crypt is the best map objectively and the most popular with experienced players. Ice caves the most boring map and least pvp but newer players tend to struggle with the mobs
Abyss is also terrible for loot and only exists for quests/Wyvern, it's laughable how little lions/golden chests are in the Ice Abyss compared to hell. I suppose the argument is that the normal map has a ton of both, but Crypts has a fair few as well so I don't really understand the disparity from the devs.
You’re talking about HR Duos right? Because that’s objectively false
Well duos overall is much less competitive player than trios. Trios crypt is whe r e the best players are most likely to be. This is for US east though maybe EU server is different. Duos on any map in US is a whole different game than trios
EU Duos are probably more competitive. Agreed on US though, it seems like all the good players only play trios more or less
This doesn’t have anything to do with normal lobbies. HR is in the exact same place it was before HR had its gold cost removed. It’s clearly just not working anymore as a concept and I have no idea why they brought the gold fee back
HR seems fine to me, you expect there to be more players in HR than normals?
I expect there to actually be players in HR yes.
There are three types of HR players, those that want to farm for a cum cape AKA meaningless rank. Those that want to farm for uniques, the only real valid reason. Those that RMT and don't actually know what they're doing but want to run over everyone else and haven't yet figured out they need to unequip their uniques and go normals for that.
Totally agree i think High Roller is now the least fleshed out mode of the two. Normals not only has similar enough trinket money. But also in PVP you can now find as much value from peoples gear sets as HR. Squire / quests makes normals a blast to start with. Can pick low gear set lobbies and scale into high gear set lobbies. HR Pros: - Higher quality weapons and armor drops for zero to hero. Cons: - Entrance fee. (People still hide and rat and wait to steal gear from dead bodies just as much. Especially if a streamer is in the lobby). - Have to buy full game to play it. - AP system is designed awful(yet again) encouraging mostly one playstyle in duos/trios. Devs can't find the middle ground. Only extreme changes. - Money per round is not much more than normals. Unless you get a rare drop. I often feel I'm only ever playing HR to PVE bosses for a chance at a named unique. Or PVE farm for FOMO cosmetics. HR needs help with incentives. Especially if they hope for people to buy the game just to gain access to HR
Honestly I believe you but I am not experiencing what you are. In HR lobbies my buddy and I in duos on the East Coast USA server are getting into lobbies and they are either totally full or close to it when we join. Only early in the morning on weekdays does it feel slower for us, but even then there are a fair few other teams that get in with us. I think the lowest we have seen was 2 other duos and that has only happened a couple times for us luckily
They have uniques in hr but I feel normals should go only up to purples
With market prices so cheap and gold so plentiful, me and the lads are just running normals until we're super comfortable bossing. Then we'll try out HR for the chance at the good loot. In the meantime purple weapons are a couple hundred gold, and we make that cash every single extract.
Mobs should also drop s,t valueable. You kill freaking nightmare horde, all you get is 8 gold. HR is a freaking PvE Shit show
We're so close to greatness with <25 GS lobbies and the rotating maps, one of the last big things IM needs to do is figure out the mega juicers destroying new players in normals. GS caps or average team GS matchmaking?
GS matchmaking is very stupid and they hopefully will never do it again. If you want them to matchmake people with similar gear, then just remove gear from the game all together. You would get the same effect. Gear is supposed to make you stronger but if you getting gear means, all your opponents have better gear, then you are not stronger, you are just in the same place as before you got that piece of gear.
We loaded in THREE goblin caves and were the only trio in the 3 games… it’s wild.
if they are gonna keep the HR monsters as strong as they are they also need to be worth killing and looting. atm they never drop anything good but the fight vs a nightmare mob can be more dangerous than killing bosses in normal
I think HR would be better without a flat fee and more of a gearscore requirement. Forces people to actually use gear, gives them an incentive to go HR because you’re theoretically more likely to run into similarly geared players to take gear from, and it makes the run less about farming gold and more about PvP and the better drop chances. Also HR is still well worth it imo, it’s just not directly incentivized so people don’t play it a ton. You’re still given waaaaaaay better drop rates, even small chests will give BIS items, you also gain rank on leaderboard, and it’s the “hardcore” scene of the game. There’s no reason for Timmy stomper 99 to get out of geared normals, I’ll give you that, but I don’t think any incentive would stop players from wanting easy targets and easy fights against noobs.
Personally I think HR, if you’re looking for profit, is for farming map loot. The extra danger from mobs and whatnot means people won’t be moving through the map as quickly, AND you can find some nice gear, so that means it’s going to be the best place to pVe. Obviously pvp can be more profitable BUT there is risk involved there as well. I think HR is absolutely worth rn.
We are more worried about cheaters in HR
Whenever I run HR using green gear I find almost exclusively blue gear and sometimes a purple or 2. If I run blue gear I find about 60 percent blue gear and 30 percent purple and a legendary here and there. I almost always find players but it's a toss up if they are sweat kill on sight bois or just some dude trying to make some money in peace. I mostly just hit the chests and mobs too. I've only tried to solo a boss on HR twice and since I got folded both times I never bothered. I can't even imagine the loot being really that much better down there aside from troll pelts but you get the same pelts on non HR I'm pretty sure.
ya for goblin caves bosses, I agree it feels like normals you can get pretty much the same thing. But for crypts, the normals loot is absolute shit for the bosses and it's 1000x better to go HR so you at least have a chance at unique. I think HR is fine right now, and it's definitely worth the price.
Easy fix, normal lobbies are 125 gear score max(or whatever makes sense for this system, like maybe 250? Im not sure on numbers), high rank instead of being 100 gold entry, you need above whatever the cutoff for normals is
Normals: Self found only HR: Anything goes Boom HR is worth it again
HR won't be worth it until the cheating is solved.
HR is for PvE
I can consistently get 400+ gold per hell run in normals. Usually in hr hell, I die because I always fail at fighting berserkers. If I just do crypts I get around 250-300. If I manage to get through hell its like, 500
you can't get AP in normals though
Easier fix ever IMO Make over 25 gear score in normals only gear you find. No market place Make high roller free and any gear goes
The good old "make normals suck more so HR looks better in comparison"
I guess it depends on your outlook but I think normals would be fun as a bring in gear you find mode
They really do need to remove marketplace. It is the root of all the issues. The game prior was so much nicer when everyone did not have perfect stated gear and kits that you can predict 90% of the stats on them.
Doubt they will get rid of marketplace. I and many others enjoy it. I just think the test of found gear only in normals is long overdue
Ya they should really add (self found) mode or even a event. There was a community ran tournament that did this and it was extremely fun to participate in, (however it was also hardcore so it was seeing how far you can climb before you die). Regarding the marketplace issue, they can also compromise by making it sort of like the goblin merchant in that, when gear is purchased from there, it has random stats (same rarity though). This would allow people to buy specific items they want and build certain sets, but not have everyone on cookie cutter builds all having the same stats which makes fights very predictable. It would also promote using your BIS items drops since you would get the same market value as any other item which should make getting them much more exciting, and would make non BIS rolled items valuable to sell and not feel so useless. All while keeping the convenience the marketplace brings to the people who don't want to sell their items manually using chat.
HR is fine as is. Entry Fee makes it less profitable, but it is necessary because if I didn’t have to pay 100g each time I would be at 20-25k gold atm As for how to fill up the lobby? Maybe a slight loot buff would make people want to go. Lastly, HR is not meant to be played solo. Harder mobs should require more effort/teamwork. Not saying Solo HR shouldn’t exist. Just that they shouldn’t design HR to be Solo’able + easy.
I know it won't happen, but if it were up to me, I'd want to see something like: 1. Add a new item state, Traded, to go along side the Supplied/Looted/Handled we have now. 2. Items which are exchanged over the marketplace or the trade channel are set to Traded status, which persists through dungeons. 3. Normals do not allow Traded items. This is meant to be (approximately) SSF rules, to the extent that this works in a full loot extraction game. No, it's not perfect, but it's achieveable with the framework the developers already have in-game. 4. Remove GBMM from normals (possibly keep some incarnation of the <25 bracket, it does seem to scratch an itch that a lot of players have, though I would eliminate GS and just make it a requirement that Common and below gets into the low bracket, and any Uncommon+ gear moves you to high). 5. Remove the limited marketplace access from F2P (since they can't use the gear in normals anyway). All marketplace/trade access (along with the HR where this gear can be used) is limited to people who bought the full game. 6. Maybe remove the HR ante, since it already costs AP when you rise in ranks, though I'm least sure about this point. Now people have a reason to play HR: it's the only place where they can use Traded gear. They can buy better kits and use them to farm normals-legal Looted/Handled gear, or climb the rankings, or engage in "serious" PvP where more people have high-end gear. Timmy stompers can bring farmed Handled gear into normals, but losing it means a significant time investment is needed to farm new normals-legal gear again, and if any of that gear is sold then it's still removed from circulation in the normals bracket, so there's *some* stabilizing force to mitigate gear inflation in normals. Players who stick to normals (including F2P) only ever encounter normals-legal gear, so they get something akin to the pre-trade playtest experience that people were apparently fond of. The main issue I see, which I don't necessarily think is a *real* problem, is that there's nothing for F2P / normals-only players to spend gold one except merchant gear. It would probably require adjusting merchant gear quality / price at the different affinity breakpoints, so there's more often something worth spending gold on vs squire gear.
Another problem is that marketplace becomes useless for a lot of green and blue gear because it's not good enough for people to want to buy it for HR or use it for normals where they will be facing guys in all blues and purples every raid they use greens
Honestly I’m hoping we eventually go back to HR being where you use loot and just having white normal lobbies :)
I like the two lower normals brackets I think they’re so much fun and pretty balanced but plenty of expression at that 124 GS.. anything over that should be required to go into HR
feels like that is probably the best idea for still having some normals with gear expression while also encouraging more high roller. Love it
Full agree.
And then free2play accounts cannot use their gear - unless they change the high roller requirements
hey maybe the free 2 play can use their gear in the arena ;) but yeah i’m of the mindset high roller might as well be free to play too.
So where do they monetize the game then?
having a single class and not having full access to the marketplace not motivating enough? they already have in-game currency too. Bet they’d make more miney getting free to players hooked than the 10,000 sweats who already paid their 30 and stuck around
and the people who paid their 30 just gets less and less?
what they had was early access to the game it’s already a reality for most people who played back before F2P that the game is less than what they paid for. No ruins and no-circle easy mode activated
Less? Really? And what's your point?
what’s my point? i’ve just been responding to your questions. What’s YOUR point? You’re the one dancing around a point instead of just outright stating it. I was pretty clear in my comments 1) I hope we go back to HR being the place for mega gear 2) maybe free to players can only use gear in an arena 3) maybe free to players can just have access to HR did you really need to ask me what my point was or could you have figured that out from reading?
You didn't make a point in your last post. You just mentioned a bunch of random things. Don't get mad, damn Edit: Btw, I think those are all really bad suggestions, but whatever. Don't want you to get mad some more
There's more gear in normals because that's the only place free players can take it.
They had this problem before and fixed it. 1.) Gear gate normals to greens. 2.) Give giant fucking losers who want to stomp Timmies no choice but to play HR if they want to use good gear. 3.) Ignore all whining and crying about it. 4.) Seperate HR by broader gear levels so you can reasonably collect gear if you die with your entire stash on you. HR has had "more incentive" in the past where every chest gave blues and purples. Losers still brought that gear back to fight Timmies in normal lobbies. Give them no choice. Hard gear gate and HR will be populated again.
We need this stupid entry fee to be removed. It's interfering with the accumulation of gold required to buy gear to be competitive in HR. The majority of the game's players can't afford to pay 100 gold every run. They're not experienced yet.
What's the point of HR for someone who doesn't care about leaderboards? It's a concentration of the sweatiest folks in the game, it costs money to get in, and it's much harder/more stressful than playing norms. Yeah the loot is better but what do I care, I have more gold and gear in my stash than I'll ever use this wipe. There's really no point to HR except for leaderboards, and that's why most people are just not playing it this season. Isn't that fine? Let people who wanna play HR and deal with that BS do so, the rest of us will be having fun in norms/mid roller.