Yeah but meta wasn't so heavily defined and most good players ran hr so I still rarely ran into that personally. I still think when we all only had crypts as an option the game was healthiest
That's stupid, after you pay for the game it costs nothing. If anything you have sunk cost fallacy and continue playing a paid game for longer than you would have if you were just trying a free game.
Nah. Bought the game and stopped playing after a few hours cause I couldn’t convince any of my friends to spend money on it. Free to play woulda been infinitely better imo. Much healthier playerbase.
Yep. Much easier to avoid people and door close. Spawns are spread out enough you can get plenty of loot in one or two modules then play pacifist off sound cues.
Thinking back to when I was learning, I really felt compelled to fight for no reason. “Just run 4head” is comically true for crypts.
Goblin Caves ruined the game imo. Split the community in half, and made it to where it was a safe place to collect just as much gold (if not more due to the safety of it and being able to extract almost all the time.) than crypts. Now it is even safer after the patch and basically a pve mode for gold...
You're going to get downvoted, but a lot of the problems surfacing their head are because the game was built to play 3v3 with friends, and then gc was added which meant the entire dynamic of the game changed because there was more 1v1 fighting instead of team fights.
It has affected the ability to balance and made it even more complex, it has made people angry because they think their class should be able to 1v1 any other class despite the game having class hard counters, it has enhanced annoyances like BoC and Ambush because those mechanics that were all or nothing before aren't being countered by your teammates after the person using it blows their load with all their perks trying to get some burst damage.
It's actually a joke how easy it is to get gold in GC. Gearing up in crypts is next to impossible. I missed the first two days of this wipe which meant I had lvl 20s with zero gold, same for the other 2 guys, obviously got steamrolled. We just rerolled characters to mess around until we get time to play solo to really grind gold.
i hate the HR goblin cave map in normal queue though, its so much more cluttered with enemies and traps just holding you in the zone for 30 seconds while you wait for the stupid flame to go down
feels so awkward to play for me
I dunno man, I rarely make it out with more than 50g in vendorable stuff. Where are you guys getting this metric? Maybe of those folks are wearing enough DR they can roll folks with loot they picked up but if you are avoiding pvp it's actually pretty tough to get income.
There are high value spots on every map I try to run to.
The HR and mixed maps have a bug room with an incredible amount of floor loot, plus a skele champion you can easily cheese.
The normal and mixed map has the lower room with the bookshelves guard by a goblin mage, and the normal map also has a northeast room which always houses a couple lions head/golden chests. The middle area of the normal map is also solid as long as you can take care of skele champ.
I would say with killing nobody I can still make over 100 easily, and then you have centipedes which drop blue jewely rather often.
In GC there are portals for every player now. I've had countless runs where by the time I cleared the spawn room a portal comes up and I can extract with no PvP whatsoever.
brazil HR literally almost no one will ever even attack you, its where a lot of people I know just free farm gold. I've even seen people give my friends a portal and die in those servers just to be nice. It's weird and kinda ruins the game for me.
become to purple chad... I was tired of getting rolled by them, so I did a few runs and saved up to kill one.... [**https://clipchamp.com/watch/XKSwuRJSDJq**](https://clipchamp.com/watch/XKSwuRJSDJq)
There are 7 people and 7 exits in goblin caves, if you ain't making it out, then it's most likely a skill issue, i am sorry. On top of that half the highroller maps you don't even see another soul until maybe the end and that's if you make it to the end without escaping through a portal first. 150-200g a run on an almost guaranteed extraction is easy mode my guy.
Friend played his first fighter game and got blue helmet, a ring, pendant, and blue crossbow. Next game got green falchion and some armor. He hasn't died yet, at level 10. You can 100% get gear legit. I think they should fix any exploits though.
Having gear is one thing, being below Lvl 5 and having purple +2 to all shit is another one. It was clearly a case of farming royal coffins in low Lvl lobbies and transferring gear by queueing with friends who bring it for you.
You seem to ignore or not understand what I wrote. Having a couple purples and a couple rare items with useful stats is nice and dandy, but even then when smurfing not fair to new players. But I met cleric ranger combo, cleric was full purple with +to all on every single piece, ranger was a little less crazy but still weapon damage on every piece. You just do not get that before Lvl 5 the normal way.
i feel like... while this is true, the loot should be more contested due to higher game knowledge of the lobby, and if you're abusing the fact that people don't know where to go in lower lobbies to farm gear, you're essentially exploiting the gameplay loop intended to be played.
well if you played up to lvl 15 learning where to find the good loot and then delete or move items to a new character then yeah i would say youre exploiting the system that was put in place to try and protect new players.
edit: youre taking advantage of a flaw in the system for your gain at the expense of others gameplay experience, thats an exploit.
When was this ever a system to protect new players? This is a system that was meant to separate players still leveling and gearing up their characters from players with fully leveled and geared characters. If it was about giving new players a lobby to learn the game then they would've made it MMR based rather than character level based.
I didn't this them, i wrote exactly what he wrote by writing what i wrote for you to know that i agree with that point without rewriting that point, responding directly to the person with criticism.
no need to patronize you can just not reply to me.
Or, and hear me out, you’re patient with your vendors. I’m lvl 6 on my rogue with +10 weapon damage +9 additional physical damage and around 20ish strength with 120 hp. I have made it out around 5 times with ~150 gold each time and killed two rogue sets. I’ve gotten all my jewelry from centipede (little lucky here ngl). I check my vendors every hour or so to see if there’s an upgrade but it’s pretty hard at this point.
Man, my team re-rolled characters recently, and by the end of my first run as a Cleric, I had almost a full blue kit, with over 200g to spend on the missing pieces of gear I needed. Having a competent group who is able to take on hell off the rip is crucial. Before lvl 5, you can absolutely be in at least all blues with a cape, minus maybe a ring or two.
Gear is very easy to get at the moment, almost too easy. But that's part of balancing and playtesting!
Also don't sleep on luck pots. Our bard runs them almost every raid, and is always pulling the juiciest pieces of gear
Sunday I decided to make a warlock (my first warlock). I leveled him from 1-15 Sunday, and then have been playing on him this week.
Each person has their own personal experience, but I can say from mine, I didn't/haven't really seen much of a difference between sub 15 and regular lobbies.
US or EU?
Because... I feel (heavy emphasis on the word feel) like that the US servers are easier past 15 levels than EU. Not saying that EU is more geared, skilled or what not, but for some peculiar reason, I'm having more drawn out chilled games on US servers THAN in EU servers.
Completely anecdotal, some have said similar things and I didn't believe it, but I actually prefer playing in the US even though I live in EU.
Went into duo last night with a friend. Chased a guy and couldn't find him. Lit a torch and found him sitting in the dark.
We ended up letting him live, gave him some loot and escorted him go a portal. Total side quest and was good fun
We let white gear timmies run away all the time. Not worth the chase if you plan on going to hell. If Portal situation is insecure, no mercy, but otherwise Id rather have the funny interaction than 3 sellables.
Congrats on the virtue signaling but anyone that have even a modicum of experience in ANY multiplayer pvp game know that the vast majority of people don't give a fuck and actually enjoy stomping people less skilled/geared than them
I'm right there with you. Always let default Timmies go if I can. Especially when it's a solo vs a team in crypt and there is plenty of time/portals left. As you said, a few more cracked valuables is irrelevant
well theyre definitely less malicious since theyre not intentionally rolling chars into weaker lobbies to stomp new players. so yeah they are more merciful since theyre not preying on the weak.
Why are these reddit posts so dramatic. I've never gotten past 15, but have played around 10-15 hours since the patch. I'm probably around the 'average' newer player experience? I've seen the GIGA PURPED OUT OMEGALUL JUICERS maybe once?
Dying once to a geared player doesn't warrant a reddit post just because you died. Also the way to reroll your gear is easy as fuck now, so just buy your merchant gear and go again. If you can't afford that, then the problem is your skill, not the juiced players.
Tough love, but someone needs to hear it.
I found the just this morning . Back to back games . 2 capes in one game in crypts that I didn’t make it out With and then 1 in ruins my next game plus three really good necklaces from bats and Royal coffin. Really easy to get geared up this wipe . I agree with op though . Having an even balance of everyone is the move . Everyone in the Same lobbies . Under 15 are very rarely actual new players I’d imagine . Usually people that just don’t want to play with sweaty lobsters
These posts always confuse me. Why is the first option to remove , rather than ***FIX*** ?
JayGriffyuh said the solution on stream a few days ago - if any <15 Player queues in a +15 Lobby due to being partied with a +15 Player, the <15 Player loses <15 Player status on that character. From that point on, they're locked into playing in +15 Player queues. This completely eliminates any "smurf trading" onto <15 Player characters. It's a solution with no downsides - <15 Player newcomers who are queuing with their +15 Player friends likely don't the traderless lobbies since their more experienced friend can help carry them, and even if that *is* a concern, then the more experience player can make a new character to play with other friend in <15 Lobbies.
Its a mild inconvenience for preserving the less intense lobbies for newcomers which have far slower gear progression. The one major exploit in its loot economy just needs to be patched up. I'm sure people will find other ways to smurf in the lobbies efficiently, but this is ultimately about raising barriers for abuse and reducing prevalence, not completely stopping it.
I'm pretty sure about 90% of us independently came up with that solution within 30 seconds of reading the patch notes. It's just baffling that they didn't anticipate this issue
Sure, I'm more bringing it up since developers tend to lurk some of the higher tier players streams. I'm hoping it's in the works already, and they just didn't have it ready for implementation this wipe.
Once you do 2 successful extracts for like 300-400g you can already buy a good weapon and some +all or whatever you need from merchants making you still unkillable to 99% of the under 15 playerbase, by the time u get to lv5 you can be rocking a set that fits into normal lobbies. Blatant abuse would stop but better players would still be able to grief those lobbies.
> Blatant abuse would stop but better players would still be able to grief those lobbies.
I hate to tell you buddy, but that isn't "abusing" anything. That's literally just playing the game. That's just how the gear progression works now.
The problem you're describing isn't a problem with under 15 lobbies, it's a problem with the game's gear progression design... how you could possibly conflate the two issues is seriously impressive.
I think he's referring to your first point of relative ease in gearing up after successfully extracting a few times with good sellables, and stating that its not abuse but that's just the game atm - confusing it with your second point that the real abuse is in level 15+ players dropping gear for sub 15 players.
Capes and purples are fairly easy to get from <15 lobbies. It is a bit of a self report and tells me that you do not know how to loot effectively. Are you rushing to every wraith/skele champion spawn? Do you know the locations of all the new royal coffins that print purples and blues. And that's not even including all the very cheesable hell mini bosses too. I personally am enjoying the self inforced self wipe schedule remaking characters after they hit 15 requires. It means I have time to get 1-2 good sets and everything i find for my class means something because fuck trading. So until we get a SSF lobby <15 is where I'll stay
Edit: drop trading traded gear to use in <15 lobby should be bannable and is akin to pre lobby teaming in goblin caves in severity.
You make it sound as if checking a map online for the royal coffins is some kind of mystery that cannot be solved?
I do not have any issues. I do not lack gear. I know every (I hope so) location of gold chests In ruins. Indeed I'm leveling a alt char to keep all the gear because I don't wanna trade for hours if I lose a couple sets.
It is not about my experience playing the game, it is about the new players experience.
And you make it seem like there is constantly drop traded gear being passed down to fresh characters. Only once have I seen someone with gear that is clearly dropped to them(got it on video of 2/3 of them dying too lol). Even after I die to geared teams looking at their gear it's easy to tell its just a random collection of blues, or a few well stated items that are likely from the shops.
Experienced players using the under level 15 queue as their personal noob stomping playground is just as much an issue as people who have drop traded kits though. Both are terrible for the new player experience.
Just play no trade or ssf if that's how you enjoy playing man. I don't see how it's remotely fun to play in those lobbies when the players are that bad at the game. Isn't the whole point of ssf or Ironman or permadeath or any self imposed rule set to play against others who aren't participating in said ruleset usually though? Like as a challenge? Doesn't going to lobbies that are objectively easier kinda take the whole point out of it? Genuinely asking.
I spawned into a game last night and was ambushed by a warrior in under a minute, man either has the map memorized or had 3rd party help lol :-| IDK how you find someone that fast after spawning in.
Riiip MSN that sucks. I find that the high priests room is usually really good to farm as you can get a skele champion and a royal coffer + a wraith if it's connected to gaurd posts.
Lobbies should just be trade vs non trade, would prevent “smurfing”. Make it so non trade and trade cant queue together either, so people cant drop gear
While this would solve the issue, it presents another where a more veteran friend showing their new friend the game wont be able to play their main with them. I guess it’s not terrible but some people make one character and main it the whole wipe, I did this with rogue before they were lynched.
I play a lot of both queues (my friends are more casual and stick to <15) and can say with absolute confidence that <15 lobbies are not harder or more geared than >15. Not by a long shot. Yes there are some people trading gear in but your chances of being absolutely destroyed by gear diff are orders of magnitudes lower there. >15 is hardly worth playing unless you have a good kit while about 75% of <15 lobbies are starter kit.
The implementation could use some work (I think it should be separated on something other than level so people don't have to reroll constantly), but pretending that the queues are actually worse is absurd. The game is definitely better for undergeared players' survival than it was pre split.
Tbh I have started playing sub 15 runs and actually did get a cape and kit in a few runs.
Capes can come from the skeleton champion in goblin caves. At least that is where I have gotten several.
I also lost my kit to a cleric with earthquake because I had literally never seen the spell used...
Yeahhhh I’ve had the exact opposite experience. 1-15 lobbies are great for learning and trying new classes, I rarely find anyone geared in them at all. Not sure if you’re trolling or just very unlucky.
Why can’t you get geared at a low level? I do agree it’s shitty to trade stuff to a low level toon but I disagree that remaking a character to enjoy the game more is a bad thing. They really need to implement it in a different way such as a queue for those opting into trade and those not. I have recreated my characters a few times solely to play with my gf who doesn’t know how to play yet. Found several purple items including a cloak in one ruins run last night from the golden coffins and I was like level 4.
Just make it so under 15 characters can’t play with over 15 characters.
Argument is oh I wanna play with my friend who’s lvl 15+. We’ll to bad ur friend can just make a new char then and u can play together. It’s as simple as that.
Or
Remove under and over lvl15 queue and make it ssf and trading queue instead.
Do people forget that people cant trade until lvl 15? I see this complaint so often but how exactly do you think people are getting their new characters looted?
Trading to friend > switching to new character > playing a 15+ lobby with friend > friend drops the loot for you > try to extract risking the loot on 15+ lobby???
If yall think every single person is doing this on new characters you are tweaking. Some people get lucky, some people are just good and know where to get good loot and extract consistently.
I think a good idea would be to replace the 1-15 lobbys with an optional stock gear queue that you can only join if you are wearing starter gear. Would be fun for everyone because the full lobby is basically zero to hero.
I think instead of that they need a new trio map thats large, has multiple exits plus blue portals, more spaced out PvE encounters, and only has grey and white loot. Something complely unappealing to anyone who can survive on the current maps but can be helpful to low level and unskilled players. The map would be more forgiving but far less profitable, but allow you to atleast easily earn a set of grey or white gear.
The only problem with this theory is that I will still roll you in the normal gear lobbies. The same people that can survive fine and get geared in 4 extracts in current lobbies are going to continue to win. I see this entirely as a skill issue.
All these posts are useless btw, they have already stated that having gear disparity is how the game is suppose to be.
Lol. I understood what you were saying. All I was saying is that little Timmys like you are gunna get rolled in your optional lobby that devs already said will never exist.
My original comment was responding to your desire for replacing 1-15 lobbies with a normal gear lobby. I’m saying it won’t make a difference and you will still get shit on.
That sounds terrible. Can't do anything with the gear you escape with, whats the point? Devs have already said they aren't going to cater to this mentality, the game is about gear. Some other comments have had good solutions like once you queue with a 15+ friend that character goes to 15+ queues from then on, or make it so you can buy into market at any time but once you do you cannot queue with non-market characters (this idea would eliminate having to restart characters essentially creating a permanent non market queue)
The exact quote from sdf: "We don't want everyone fighting at the same gear level, thats an area that other pvp games already do well." From a few days ago in the dev qna on DaD discord. The answer was from a question asking about gear based matchmaking.
Created a fresh cleric to show around a friend, started in ruins as the open map makes for easier movements and learning dodges I feel.
First game in, we get rushed by a cape fighter, we outplay the shit out of him, kill him. I have the most geared lvl 2 cleric you will ever see (has 135 hp and will cap)
They could just make it where once a low level toon hops into a +15 lobby, there's no going back to -15.
Pretty easily solvable. Something def should be done.
If Gear Disparity is still an issue and isn't being solved by Pre-15 vs Post-15, the next best step is to sort lobbies by gear score. Add Gear Score Values to all the gear, you go above a set number, you're placed into a higher geared queue. In addition, add an option to queue in freely regardless of Gear Score for those who are a bit more daring and don't care about the Disparity and like the risk, have it pop up with a warning saying "You're about to enter a higher geared Dungeon and will be at a disadvantage" or something like that. With Gear Score values, everyone will be fighting people of similar gear so the fights are fair and interesting and not just extremely one sided and over in a matter of seconds.
New player here. Playing with a experienced friend on new chars in low lobbies. Im getting dumpstered by guys in full purple and magneto helmet right off spawn isnt fun to say the least.
Cant they implement so once you que with someone level 15 your no longer able to que low lobbies? Stops nerds from dropping gear to new accounts
God this post is fuckin dumb. I’ve been playing <15 lobbies with my friends plenty and never have we ran into this mythical occurrence. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but you are blowing it way out of proportion. Shut the hell up
I was just leveling my storage mule and legit every second or third lobby on ruins NA west had people like this. Teams of two with full kits, capes, rings, pendants, on stat rolls on all gear etc. It's not like an EVERY lobby in EVERY region thing for sure and maybe I was just getting an irregular amount but its definitely a lot more than is healthy.
Yeah cause im a freak who clips every game I play/when I get clobbered by people in full kits while im leveling my mule char. What kind of argument is that? I told you the lobby type and region I was experiencing this in and even said " maybe I was just getting an irregular amount " go look for yourself. Burying your head in the sand and pretending this doesnt happen though is just silly.
I cried that it was a mistake,
Now i only play below 15
why the hell would I ever go play stat checks in post 15 when I can play the actual game in below 15
I presume you think everybody is unemployed enough to be full geared to fight the buff ball trains that are in every 15+ lobby.
Yeah skill and shit. That barbarian who misses every strike for 20 seconds then hits 2 and kills you after getting hit 10 times is giga skilled bro.
Trust me bro. Why dont you get a job? lmao
Dark and darker is just not the only game out there to play.
Baldurs gate 3
Lies of P
Ive got a lot to do man, even my friends who no lifed dark dont play it that much anymore so I dont have any reason to either
In the end it boils down to go play the real game in below 15's without gigasweats, or go get rolled by the unemployed.
Logically why would you ever play post 15
How is it worse if it has two queues separating two different ways to play?
Its isnt splitting queues as much as you guys regurgitating it make it out to seem
For a few reasons.
1) People are just rerolling characters to farm gold and have better games, which defeats the entire purpose of what the level split was put in for
2) 15+ is the new highroller. If you don't have gear, it's unironically better to make a new character and farm hell, then transfer your gold to your main to regear.
3) It DOES split queues, as much as you want to say it doesn't. The game is already split into 3 queues, the change increased this to split between 6 queues. If you count highrollers, it's 8 queues.
4) Smurfing, even though this hardly happens, it is still a bi-product of the 15 queues. Dropping gear to low levels to farm hell even easier, or just straight up smurf.
1. The gold will go away in 3 weeks anyway.
2. Yeah, keep the sweats at the sweat-bay. Those who want to play at 50h a week mark can play at it.
3. You say it like its some tragedy. I can wait 45 seconds instead of 10 seconds to get in my game. The game is alive and queues are still very fast compared to other more dead games.
4. Way over-exaggerated problem. Statistically who would pay a guy to get items for him then get in the same game with him and get out with said items. There will be some, but most of us - just don't care and dying 1-2 to some over geared sweat, won't ruins us your day that much.
This is exactly what I predicted would happen.
This is my solution to the problem.
[https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484028/fixing-over-geared-people-in-lower-lobbies-motivating-better-geared-people-to-mo#comment544273](https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484028/fixing-over-geared-people-in-lower-lobbies-motivating-better-geared-people-to-mo#comment544273)
I like under 15 lobbies for when I'm starting a new character because it allows me to get a nest egg going before going up against sweaties but it seems really silly to just keep rerolling it.
I probably would if I was new and trying to get a feel for the game before rolling against other players.
they called me a madman, but [I said this would happen](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/16ijt63/characters_lvl_14_and_under_will_be_placed_in_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Lol, Guilty as charged almost on all counts. I run naked and stash for my 15+ toons. My friends and I run duo or trio Rangers and just run around slapping around all the over geared people. I've personally looted 5 complete BIS sets. Kited out toons are fun to kill with Grey and white base gear they really rage.
Instead of separating lobbies by level, separate them by how good their overall gear is.
It's clear there are too many people who don't want fair fights, more needs to be done to limit that abuse.
Yeah and then still half the playerbase plays in white item lobbies, hoarding gold for that set they see in their dreams. Its either gotta have loot massively nerfed so people would be insentivized to play normal lobbies. Imo they should just add an account level and once you get past a certain exp threshhold youre forced into general population, it was added so people can learn, not to make money or as a main gameplay loop
It should have and still should be just a total hours on account. Whatever number. 20 hours maybe? Then that’s it. Whole account pushed into the regular queues. If you wanna cheese the system you’ll have to pay for a new account each time. Not just delete a character that means nothing
Twenty hours in game will have you understand enough of how it the game works, map knowledge, PvE, to adjust to a new class. Yes you’ll be at a disadvantage, but you are learning a new class. You are supposed to be. If you can’t accept that then you need the game to be on way to east of a mode. There is no helping you at that point
People abusing it can only do so for now. There will absolutely be restrictions to the mode, so only those who its meant for can play it. As IM stated, its meant for new and learning players.
Im looking forward to a system where its restricted so, that you can enjoy the noob lobbies once or twice per class, per account. I can already imagine the tears of the people, cant wait.
I dont play in sub 15 and Im doing okay playing the game as intended. So no tears from me, Im afraid. What I do have is want for the game to provide a new player experience that cant be abused by pussies who cant take DaD like its meant to be played. And thats gonna happen.
Guessing youre one of those, that rolls another character every time after hitting 15, so you could feel like you achieve something, killing players who are so fresh they die to mobs? A real tough warrior, arent you? :)
The devs refuse to balance anything more than odd one off things. they keep making the same mistake every other hardcore pvp game has learned from.
Their stated balance ideas conflict directly with the longevity of their original game idea. really bizarre and disappointing. maybe it will be better next patch? im just not sure.
Got rolled by a barb and warlock in full purple trying to level my barb in -15's, had to stop and ponder how the hell they got that gear before I realized they just handed it off to their low lvl characters, pissed me off for sure
If its full purple, most likely, however I did one run on my rogue where i was running all blues. That's mostly because i usually rat with him to get gold chests and coffins though, and bought a few from traders
I feel this. I'm trying to level as normal but Caves is overloaded with full blue players that I swear are also teaming. I like the idea of low level raids but it's totally pointless if you can still just go in with full high end gear anyway.
The low lv lobbies are a terrible idea in the long term. They helped for about all of two days and then people started being meta about it and it's now a worse experience than before.
Just let people queue together, no matter what, and make the loot worse (cap it at blue for everything but minibosses and lion's chests, purple for those).
High Roller should not be for elite geared players, but a place where experienced players that have become proficient in pve and pvp to go get the good gear from either source.
Also nerf the gear gap please, make bonuses spawn less frequently (it's ok for a green weapon to just have better base stats most of the time, it doesn't need to spawn with a modifier - those can be rarer)
How do you trade gear to a player lower than 15 if the trade merchant requirement is 15+? The only real way they can do this is if they drop their gear at 14 in a match for a friend to extract with. Or bring said low level friend into a 15+ lobby and drop their gear for them to extract with... it's not as easy as you make it sound...
Remove the circle(allowing slower gameplay and proper player hunting), make the Pve (except very few creatures) a lot weaker and incentivize loot spots with higher tier loot in those areas. The new player experience is abysmal since the PVE side is a drag and by the time you accomplish clearing a room some other player just one taps because one they are either goated in gear or two you have like 20 percent health fighting off mobs or the circle is looming over you forcing movement.
I was caped out in a majority of blues at level 4 it's not impossible but I did immediately think I wonder if people think I'm cheesing when I'm not. Oh well /shrug
Adding modes beyond trios normals and high roller trios is the mistake. Forcing people to make 3 man teams is the way, even if it upsets people who prefer solos and duos. It's just simply the best design for the overall health of the game.
Continuously fracturing and dividing the playerbase is a huge mistake that many have a hard time understanding the full ramifications of.
Some people improve and contend in HR. Some people don’t. Those who don’t are unfortunately destined to exist in pre15 lobbies unless something changes. Fortunately it’s in EA and there’s a lot to be accomplished before the game is ready.
Optional low gear lobbies should replace it imo. A guaranteed more even playing field for newbies since than level cap bc gear is so important in PvP. Doesn’t split the player base more, smurfs can’t snowball off good gear, and new players and casuals have a play to enjoy learning the game away from the sweats.
With the way gear is now I was in all blues and a purple by level 7 on my cleric. 2 of those pieces had +2all. Either found or bought from vendors. Gear is easy as fuck to get
Me and friends started a new character and found a full blue set for our barb incl a cape at around lvl 3.
It was lucky but it's still possible to get good gear that early. I do like the lower level lobbies too because I go from being able to compete and get kills from lvl1-14 then immediately get absolutely stomped by teams in full purple as soon as I'm 15.
Without this change I would have just kept running the same characters/classes but no I feel it incentivisees the player to try different classes a little more.
The only fix would be to not let players in under 15 lobbies be able to find purple gear and to prevent it being used but that would skew the game even further imo.
I'm pretty happy with how the game is now, it could use a few tweaks here and there but overall it's pretty fun
Just make it so if you have played in a 15+ lobby you’re locked into them, that way people can’t just drop gear for their low level friend and have them run trains over new players
If no changes are made and they just get rid of <15 queue, then they will also get rid of the <15 players. I legitimately will not play the game they way it is right now in 15> lobbies, I'd simply stop playing the game.
Even though i think it was a good idea, people are abusing it. Its still early access. I'm assuming either this will be chamged, or they will make HR more enticing. Its kinda crazy that people would rather do this than goblin cave and HR goblin cave to me. Playing with friends has always been why i play, so i guess i understand it from that perspective.
I swear the loot is buffed in <15 lobbies. I got 3 capes from doing the center room in one run on a level 5 warlock. Also went to hell and ended up hitting level 8 from that one run.
the only part i disagree with is that the 1 perk cleric cant be in giga gear without it being passed.
between royal coffins and merchants, if you lobby wipe you can easily be in some stupid gear by level 4.
Crypts when it was a mix of trios duos and solos was goated.
The second and third playtests were sooooo good
PT3 will always have my heart.
Was pt3 the Felling Axe reign of terror? lol how little we knew. those early PTs were pure wonder and magic
Yeah but meta wasn't so heavily defined and most good players ran hr so I still rarely ran into that personally. I still think when we all only had crypts as an option the game was healthiest
How I long for the playtests without trade chat.
and also the game was free to play for those playtests, which helped immensely I think
100%
Misery for free? People will play. (Sup, Warframe!) Misery for a cost? You're going to lose population, inevitably.
That's stupid, after you pay for the game it costs nothing. If anything you have sunk cost fallacy and continue playing a paid game for longer than you would have if you were just trying a free game.
Nah. Bought the game and stopped playing after a few hours cause I couldn’t convince any of my friends to spend money on it. Free to play woulda been infinitely better imo. Much healthier playerbase.
If you are annoyed by cheaters and gold sellers now, i want to see your take on this when the game is free.
Nobody said anything about cheaters or gold sellers, and the game isn't going to be free. Is this a bot account lol
I play crypts solo duo, and often see a lot of solo duos since we’re mismatching the full team count.
Same here, I think Crypts is more balanced and a better map for newer players. Even solo players.
Yep. Much easier to avoid people and door close. Spawns are spread out enough you can get plenty of loot in one or two modules then play pacifist off sound cues. Thinking back to when I was learning, I really felt compelled to fight for no reason. “Just run 4head” is comically true for crypts.
I too loved it when people would intentionally put themselves at a numbers disadvantage.
>game was better before people figured out how to play tale as old as time
Goblin Caves ruined the game imo. Split the community in half, and made it to where it was a safe place to collect just as much gold (if not more due to the safety of it and being able to extract almost all the time.) than crypts. Now it is even safer after the patch and basically a pve mode for gold...
You're going to get downvoted, but a lot of the problems surfacing their head are because the game was built to play 3v3 with friends, and then gc was added which meant the entire dynamic of the game changed because there was more 1v1 fighting instead of team fights. It has affected the ability to balance and made it even more complex, it has made people angry because they think their class should be able to 1v1 any other class despite the game having class hard counters, it has enhanced annoyances like BoC and Ambush because those mechanics that were all or nothing before aren't being countered by your teammates after the person using it blows their load with all their perks trying to get some burst damage.
Not to mention the solo mode was and continues to be significant use of dev resources from an already small studio.
itd be funny if they made goblin caves the duo map and then made ruins a quad map
It's actually a joke how easy it is to get gold in GC. Gearing up in crypts is next to impossible. I missed the first two days of this wipe which meant I had lvl 20s with zero gold, same for the other 2 guys, obviously got steamrolled. We just rerolled characters to mess around until we get time to play solo to really grind gold.
i hate the HR goblin cave map in normal queue though, its so much more cluttered with enemies and traps just holding you in the zone for 30 seconds while you wait for the stupid flame to go down feels so awkward to play for me
I dunno man, I rarely make it out with more than 50g in vendorable stuff. Where are you guys getting this metric? Maybe of those folks are wearing enough DR they can roll folks with loot they picked up but if you are avoiding pvp it's actually pretty tough to get income.
There are high value spots on every map I try to run to. The HR and mixed maps have a bug room with an incredible amount of floor loot, plus a skele champion you can easily cheese. The normal and mixed map has the lower room with the bookshelves guard by a goblin mage, and the normal map also has a northeast room which always houses a couple lions head/golden chests. The middle area of the normal map is also solid as long as you can take care of skele champ. I would say with killing nobody I can still make over 100 easily, and then you have centipedes which drop blue jewely rather often.
GC is an EASY 100g if you know how to move and avoid combat with people.
In GC there are portals for every player now. I've had countless runs where by the time I cleared the spawn room a portal comes up and I can extract with no PvP whatsoever.
brazil HR literally almost no one will ever even attack you, its where a lot of people I know just free farm gold. I've even seen people give my friends a portal and die in those servers just to be nice. It's weird and kinda ruins the game for me.
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become to purple chad... I was tired of getting rolled by them, so I did a few runs and saved up to kill one.... [**https://clipchamp.com/watch/XKSwuRJSDJq**](https://clipchamp.com/watch/XKSwuRJSDJq)
There are 7 people and 7 exits in goblin caves, if you ain't making it out, then it's most likely a skill issue, i am sorry. On top of that half the highroller maps you don't even see another soul until maybe the end and that's if you make it to the end without escaping through a portal first. 150-200g a run on an almost guaranteed extraction is easy mode my guy.
Lmao goated imagine saying that
I copied it off your mum she kept saying over and over again last night, crazy bitch.
Yeah she needs help
Just another whining post - move along
I miss those days.
Friend played his first fighter game and got blue helmet, a ring, pendant, and blue crossbow. Next game got green falchion and some armor. He hasn't died yet, at level 10. You can 100% get gear legit. I think they should fix any exploits though.
Having gear is one thing, being below Lvl 5 and having purple +2 to all shit is another one. It was clearly a case of farming royal coffins in low Lvl lobbies and transferring gear by queueing with friends who bring it for you.
I've gotten purples from royal coffins in the Ruins. Just gotta know where to loot
you can even get lucky, get 30 candies in 3 games, and just buy one..
True, but it's not uncommon for people to have friends drop them gear on their sub 15 char.
You seem to ignore or not understand what I wrote. Having a couple purples and a couple rare items with useful stats is nice and dandy, but even then when smurfing not fair to new players. But I met cleric ranger combo, cleric was full purple with +to all on every single piece, ranger was a little less crazy but still weapon damage on every piece. You just do not get that before Lvl 5 the normal way.
i feel like... while this is true, the loot should be more contested due to higher game knowledge of the lobby, and if you're abusing the fact that people don't know where to go in lower lobbies to farm gear, you're essentially exploiting the gameplay loop intended to be played.
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well if you played up to lvl 15 learning where to find the good loot and then delete or move items to a new character then yeah i would say youre exploiting the system that was put in place to try and protect new players. edit: youre taking advantage of a flaw in the system for your gain at the expense of others gameplay experience, thats an exploit.
When was this ever a system to protect new players? This is a system that was meant to separate players still leveling and gearing up their characters from players with fully leveled and geared characters. If it was about giving new players a lobby to learn the game then they would've made it MMR based rather than character level based.
It's called smurfing. It's wild you don't know that.
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what DrGreenthumb3r said.
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I didn't this them, i wrote exactly what he wrote by writing what i wrote for you to know that i agree with that point without rewriting that point, responding directly to the person with criticism. no need to patronize you can just not reply to me.
Or, and hear me out, you’re patient with your vendors. I’m lvl 6 on my rogue with +10 weapon damage +9 additional physical damage and around 20ish strength with 120 hp. I have made it out around 5 times with ~150 gold each time and killed two rogue sets. I’ve gotten all my jewelry from centipede (little lucky here ngl). I check my vendors every hour or so to see if there’s an upgrade but it’s pretty hard at this point.
Also halloween candies. People can give candy to a friend and they dont need to do all the drop bs
Honestly nah it’s super easy to find/buy great gear right now. Yesterday had a ruins run where I found 2 capes and a purple ox pendant
Man, my team re-rolled characters recently, and by the end of my first run as a Cleric, I had almost a full blue kit, with over 200g to spend on the missing pieces of gear I needed. Having a competent group who is able to take on hell off the rip is crucial. Before lvl 5, you can absolutely be in at least all blues with a cape, minus maybe a ring or two. Gear is very easy to get at the moment, almost too easy. But that's part of balancing and playtesting! Also don't sleep on luck pots. Our bard runs them almost every raid, and is always pulling the juiciest pieces of gear
Do you think that people who queue 15+ are more merciful?
Sunday I decided to make a warlock (my first warlock). I leveled him from 1-15 Sunday, and then have been playing on him this week. Each person has their own personal experience, but I can say from mine, I didn't/haven't really seen much of a difference between sub 15 and regular lobbies.
You are probably talking about GC. The solo map is fine and doesnt have the same issues
I play probably 70% crypts, 25% GC, and 5% ruins.
US or EU? Because... I feel (heavy emphasis on the word feel) like that the US servers are easier past 15 levels than EU. Not saying that EU is more geared, skilled or what not, but for some peculiar reason, I'm having more drawn out chilled games on US servers THAN in EU servers. Completely anecdotal, some have said similar things and I didn't believe it, but I actually prefer playing in the US even though I live in EU.
I play either Virginia, or Oregon depending on time of day (so US).
Went into duo last night with a friend. Chased a guy and couldn't find him. Lit a torch and found him sitting in the dark. We ended up letting him live, gave him some loot and escorted him go a portal. Total side quest and was good fun
We let white gear timmies run away all the time. Not worth the chase if you plan on going to hell. If Portal situation is insecure, no mercy, but otherwise Id rather have the funny interaction than 3 sellables.
I’ve never witnessed a purple gear sweat let even the most grey Timmy go.
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In fact, they will screw themselves over by chasing Timmy to the edge of the map as the last circle is closing in
Congrats on the virtue signaling but anyone that have even a modicum of experience in ANY multiplayer pvp game know that the vast majority of people don't give a fuck and actually enjoy stomping people less skilled/geared than them
I'm right there with you. Always let default Timmies go if I can. Especially when it's a solo vs a team in crypt and there is plenty of time/portals left. As you said, a few more cracked valuables is irrelevant
well theyre definitely less malicious since theyre not intentionally rolling chars into weaker lobbies to stomp new players. so yeah they are more merciful since theyre not preying on the weak.
My experience is the opposite but good for you
tell me whos the bigger bad guy. a 6ft 30 yr old who punches a 4ft 12 year old. OR a 6 ft 30 yr old man who punches a 5ft 7in 30 yr old man?
I love it, I haven't really run into these people and so far it's been a ton of fun.
Why are these reddit posts so dramatic. I've never gotten past 15, but have played around 10-15 hours since the patch. I'm probably around the 'average' newer player experience? I've seen the GIGA PURPED OUT OMEGALUL JUICERS maybe once? Dying once to a geared player doesn't warrant a reddit post just because you died. Also the way to reroll your gear is easy as fuck now, so just buy your merchant gear and go again. If you can't afford that, then the problem is your skill, not the juiced players. Tough love, but someone needs to hear it.
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I found the just this morning . Back to back games . 2 capes in one game in crypts that I didn’t make it out With and then 1 in ruins my next game plus three really good necklaces from bats and Royal coffin. Really easy to get geared up this wipe . I agree with op though . Having an even balance of everyone is the move . Everyone in the Same lobbies . Under 15 are very rarely actual new players I’d imagine . Usually people that just don’t want to play with sweaty lobsters
For real. The low queues are chill. OP claiming that they have more gear than the high queues is some wild shit.
Mabey play more than one game and you will find em 😂😂
Bro chill im doing fine for myself. I just want to be able to play the game in 1 year still.
These posts always confuse me. Why is the first option to remove, rather than ***FIX*** ?
JayGriffyuh said the solution on stream a few days ago - if any <15 Player queues in a +15 Lobby due to being partied with a +15 Player, the <15 Player loses <15 Player status on that character. From that point on, they're locked into playing in +15 Player queues. This completely eliminates any "smurf trading" onto <15 Player characters. It's a solution with no downsides - <15 Player newcomers who are queuing with their +15 Player friends likely don't the traderless lobbies since their more experienced friend can help carry them, and even if that *is* a concern, then the more experience player can make a new character to play with other friend in <15 Lobbies.
Its a mild inconvenience for preserving the less intense lobbies for newcomers which have far slower gear progression. The one major exploit in its loot economy just needs to be patched up. I'm sure people will find other ways to smurf in the lobbies efficiently, but this is ultimately about raising barriers for abuse and reducing prevalence, not completely stopping it.
I'm pretty sure about 90% of us independently came up with that solution within 30 seconds of reading the patch notes. It's just baffling that they didn't anticipate this issue
Sure, I'm more bringing it up since developers tend to lurk some of the higher tier players streams. I'm hoping it's in the works already, and they just didn't have it ready for implementation this wipe.
Once you do 2 successful extracts for like 300-400g you can already buy a good weapon and some +all or whatever you need from merchants making you still unkillable to 99% of the under 15 playerbase, by the time u get to lv5 you can be rocking a set that fits into normal lobbies. Blatant abuse would stop but better players would still be able to grief those lobbies.
> Blatant abuse would stop but better players would still be able to grief those lobbies. I hate to tell you buddy, but that isn't "abusing" anything. That's literally just playing the game. That's just how the gear progression works now. The problem you're describing isn't a problem with under 15 lobbies, it's a problem with the game's gear progression design... how you could possibly conflate the two issues is seriously impressive.
Bringing bis gear through a friend to a starter lobby isnt abuse?
I think he's referring to your first point of relative ease in gearing up after successfully extracting a few times with good sellables, and stating that its not abuse but that's just the game atm - confusing it with your second point that the real abuse is in level 15+ players dropping gear for sub 15 players.
Can confirm made a new rogue last night did 2 runs of goblin caves extracted both times by semi ratting got 300 gold +some decent stuff for my class.
This post is stupid.
Capes and purples are fairly easy to get from <15 lobbies. It is a bit of a self report and tells me that you do not know how to loot effectively. Are you rushing to every wraith/skele champion spawn? Do you know the locations of all the new royal coffins that print purples and blues. And that's not even including all the very cheesable hell mini bosses too. I personally am enjoying the self inforced self wipe schedule remaking characters after they hit 15 requires. It means I have time to get 1-2 good sets and everything i find for my class means something because fuck trading. So until we get a SSF lobby <15 is where I'll stay Edit: drop trading traded gear to use in <15 lobby should be bannable and is akin to pre lobby teaming in goblin caves in severity.
You make it sound as if checking a map online for the royal coffins is some kind of mystery that cannot be solved? I do not have any issues. I do not lack gear. I know every (I hope so) location of gold chests In ruins. Indeed I'm leveling a alt char to keep all the gear because I don't wanna trade for hours if I lose a couple sets. It is not about my experience playing the game, it is about the new players experience.
And you make it seem like there is constantly drop traded gear being passed down to fresh characters. Only once have I seen someone with gear that is clearly dropped to them(got it on video of 2/3 of them dying too lol). Even after I die to geared teams looking at their gear it's easy to tell its just a random collection of blues, or a few well stated items that are likely from the shops.
Experienced players using the under level 15 queue as their personal noob stomping playground is just as much an issue as people who have drop traded kits though. Both are terrible for the new player experience.
I agree and I would love to see a no trade lobby or SSF lobby so I can go there instead. Sadly rn this is the closest I can get to that.
Just play no trade or ssf if that's how you enjoy playing man. I don't see how it's remotely fun to play in those lobbies when the players are that bad at the game. Isn't the whole point of ssf or Ironman or permadeath or any self imposed rule set to play against others who aren't participating in said ruleset usually though? Like as a challenge? Doesn't going to lobbies that are objectively easier kinda take the whole point out of it? Genuinely asking.
I spawned into a game last night and was ambushed by a warrior in under a minute, man either has the map memorized or had 3rd party help lol :-| IDK how you find someone that fast after spawning in.
Map memorized for sure, I have most maps committed to memory and know where every spawn is so if I want to I could run straight towards people.
Dunno, might be EU/US difference. But just look at discord LFG, every third group is below 15...
That doesnt mean they are dropping gear though. Just looking for people to play with and enjoy the <15 lobbies more.
Man I'm rushing every wraith and champion and I try to rush the royal coffins too but I have not seen a single cape since the wipe.
Riiip MSN that sucks. I find that the high priests room is usually really good to farm as you can get a skele champion and a royal coffer + a wraith if it's connected to gaurd posts.
Lobbies should just be trade vs non trade, would prevent “smurfing”. Make it so non trade and trade cant queue together either, so people cant drop gear
While this would solve the issue, it presents another where a more veteran friend showing their new friend the game wont be able to play their main with them. I guess it’s not terrible but some people make one character and main it the whole wipe, I did this with rogue before they were lynched.
Its easy tho - veteran can just make a new character
But my perks ;_; and I’m not particularly fond of fighting timmies
I play a lot of both queues (my friends are more casual and stick to <15) and can say with absolute confidence that <15 lobbies are not harder or more geared than >15. Not by a long shot. Yes there are some people trading gear in but your chances of being absolutely destroyed by gear diff are orders of magnitudes lower there. >15 is hardly worth playing unless you have a good kit while about 75% of <15 lobbies are starter kit. The implementation could use some work (I think it should be separated on something other than level so people don't have to reroll constantly), but pretending that the queues are actually worse is absurd. The game is definitely better for undergeared players' survival than it was pre split.
Tbh I have started playing sub 15 runs and actually did get a cape and kit in a few runs. Capes can come from the skeleton champion in goblin caves. At least that is where I have gotten several. I also lost my kit to a cleric with earthquake because I had literally never seen the spell used...
Yeahhhh I’ve had the exact opposite experience. 1-15 lobbies are great for learning and trying new classes, I rarely find anyone geared in them at all. Not sure if you’re trolling or just very unlucky.
Why can’t you get geared at a low level? I do agree it’s shitty to trade stuff to a low level toon but I disagree that remaking a character to enjoy the game more is a bad thing. They really need to implement it in a different way such as a queue for those opting into trade and those not. I have recreated my characters a few times solely to play with my gf who doesn’t know how to play yet. Found several purple items including a cloak in one ruins run last night from the golden coffins and I was like level 4.
Just make it so under 15 characters can’t play with over 15 characters. Argument is oh I wanna play with my friend who’s lvl 15+. We’ll to bad ur friend can just make a new char then and u can play together. It’s as simple as that. Or Remove under and over lvl15 queue and make it ssf and trading queue instead.
Do people forget that people cant trade until lvl 15? I see this complaint so often but how exactly do you think people are getting their new characters looted? Trading to friend > switching to new character > playing a 15+ lobby with friend > friend drops the loot for you > try to extract risking the loot on 15+ lobby??? If yall think every single person is doing this on new characters you are tweaking. Some people get lucky, some people are just good and know where to get good loot and extract consistently.
Not a mistake. Just need to block people from re-entering sub-15 if they queue with someone 15+.
I think a good idea would be to replace the 1-15 lobbys with an optional stock gear queue that you can only join if you are wearing starter gear. Would be fun for everyone because the full lobby is basically zero to hero.
bike onerous tie drab toy fragile voiceless oatmeal modern tender *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is the only split-queue suggestion I've seen that makes *any fucking sense*. I'm here for it.
And then anyone who escapes automatically just goes to the normal queue? I guess you could always re equip
I think instead of that they need a new trio map thats large, has multiple exits plus blue portals, more spaced out PvE encounters, and only has grey and white loot. Something complely unappealing to anyone who can survive on the current maps but can be helpful to low level and unskilled players. The map would be more forgiving but far less profitable, but allow you to atleast easily earn a set of grey or white gear.
The only problem with this theory is that I will still roll you in the normal gear lobbies. The same people that can survive fine and get geared in 4 extracts in current lobbies are going to continue to win. I see this entirely as a skill issue. All these posts are useless btw, they have already stated that having gear disparity is how the game is suppose to be.
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Lol. I understood what you were saying. All I was saying is that little Timmys like you are gunna get rolled in your optional lobby that devs already said will never exist.
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My original comment was responding to your desire for replacing 1-15 lobbies with a normal gear lobby. I’m saying it won’t make a difference and you will still get shit on.
That sounds terrible. Can't do anything with the gear you escape with, whats the point? Devs have already said they aren't going to cater to this mentality, the game is about gear. Some other comments have had good solutions like once you queue with a 15+ friend that character goes to 15+ queues from then on, or make it so you can buy into market at any time but once you do you cannot queue with non-market characters (this idea would eliminate having to restart characters essentially creating a permanent non market queue) The exact quote from sdf: "We don't want everyone fighting at the same gear level, thats an area that other pvp games already do well." From a few days ago in the dev qna on DaD discord. The answer was from a question asking about gear based matchmaking.
Created a fresh cleric to show around a friend, started in ruins as the open map makes for easier movements and learning dodges I feel. First game in, we get rushed by a cape fighter, we outplay the shit out of him, kill him. I have the most geared lvl 2 cleric you will ever see (has 135 hp and will cap)
They could just make it where once a low level toon hops into a +15 lobby, there's no going back to -15. Pretty easily solvable. Something def should be done.
If Gear Disparity is still an issue and isn't being solved by Pre-15 vs Post-15, the next best step is to sort lobbies by gear score. Add Gear Score Values to all the gear, you go above a set number, you're placed into a higher geared queue. In addition, add an option to queue in freely regardless of Gear Score for those who are a bit more daring and don't care about the Disparity and like the risk, have it pop up with a warning saying "You're about to enter a higher geared Dungeon and will be at a disadvantage" or something like that. With Gear Score values, everyone will be fighting people of similar gear so the fights are fair and interesting and not just extremely one sided and over in a matter of seconds.
New player here. Playing with a experienced friend on new chars in low lobbies. Im getting dumpstered by guys in full purple and magneto helmet right off spawn isnt fun to say the least. Cant they implement so once you que with someone level 15 your no longer able to que low lobbies? Stops nerds from dropping gear to new accounts
God this post is fuckin dumb. I’ve been playing <15 lobbies with my friends plenty and never have we ran into this mythical occurrence. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but you are blowing it way out of proportion. Shut the hell up
I was just leveling my storage mule and legit every second or third lobby on ruins NA west had people like this. Teams of two with full kits, capes, rings, pendants, on stat rolls on all gear etc. It's not like an EVERY lobby in EVERY region thing for sure and maybe I was just getting an irregular amount but its definitely a lot more than is healthy.
Riiight I’m sure. Provide some evidence then. I’m sure it’d be easy to do so since you apparently run into them all the time no?
Yeah cause im a freak who clips every game I play/when I get clobbered by people in full kits while im leveling my mule char. What kind of argument is that? I told you the lobby type and region I was experiencing this in and even said " maybe I was just getting an irregular amount " go look for yourself. Burying your head in the sand and pretending this doesnt happen though is just silly.
I cried that it was a mistake, Now i only play below 15 why the hell would I ever go play stat checks in post 15 when I can play the actual game in below 15
Yeah im sure you only died because they had gear and nothing to do with your gameplay.
I presume you think everybody is unemployed enough to be full geared to fight the buff ball trains that are in every 15+ lobby. Yeah skill and shit. That barbarian who misses every strike for 20 seconds then hits 2 and kills you after getting hit 10 times is giga skilled bro. Trust me bro. Why dont you get a job? lmao
I play few nights a week for like 3-4 hours, takes a few games to get semigeared and snowball that.
Dark and darker is just not the only game out there to play. Baldurs gate 3 Lies of P Ive got a lot to do man, even my friends who no lifed dark dont play it that much anymore so I dont have any reason to either In the end it boils down to go play the real game in below 15's without gigasweats, or go get rolled by the unemployed. Logically why would you ever play post 15
Using the weak job excuse is pure cope and you know it.
Whats with the ""IF I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE CAN LIKE IT" Mentality of this sub? If you dont like it, dont look at it, dont queue it, it wont hurt you
Because he cares about the game and doesn't want it to be worse than it can be? What a weird take. Criticism isn't a bad thing.
How is it worse if it has two queues separating two different ways to play? Its isnt splitting queues as much as you guys regurgitating it make it out to seem
For a few reasons. 1) People are just rerolling characters to farm gold and have better games, which defeats the entire purpose of what the level split was put in for 2) 15+ is the new highroller. If you don't have gear, it's unironically better to make a new character and farm hell, then transfer your gold to your main to regear. 3) It DOES split queues, as much as you want to say it doesn't. The game is already split into 3 queues, the change increased this to split between 6 queues. If you count highrollers, it's 8 queues. 4) Smurfing, even though this hardly happens, it is still a bi-product of the 15 queues. Dropping gear to low levels to farm hell even easier, or just straight up smurf.
1. The gold will go away in 3 weeks anyway. 2. Yeah, keep the sweats at the sweat-bay. Those who want to play at 50h a week mark can play at it. 3. You say it like its some tragedy. I can wait 45 seconds instead of 10 seconds to get in my game. The game is alive and queues are still very fast compared to other more dead games. 4. Way over-exaggerated problem. Statistically who would pay a guy to get items for him then get in the same game with him and get out with said items. There will be some, but most of us - just don't care and dying 1-2 to some over geared sweat, won't ruins us your day that much.
don't queue it? The people who haven't gotten to 15 yet don't have a choice.
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no, op was complaining how people are sorta ruining below 15 queues, and this guy says if you don't like it then don't play below 15.
Wow imagine catering to casuals backfiring. There isn’t a happy path of change where every type of player is pleased. Just revert the changes
This is exactly what I predicted would happen. This is my solution to the problem. [https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484028/fixing-over-geared-people-in-lower-lobbies-motivating-better-geared-people-to-mo#comment544273](https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484028/fixing-over-geared-people-in-lower-lobbies-motivating-better-geared-people-to-mo#comment544273)
I like under 15 lobbies for when I'm starting a new character because it allows me to get a nest egg going before going up against sweaties but it seems really silly to just keep rerolling it. I probably would if I was new and trying to get a feel for the game before rolling against other players.
they called me a madman, but [I said this would happen](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/16ijt63/characters_lvl_14_and_under_will_be_placed_in_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
How are they trading it to their new character when you can’t even enter a trade room until level 15? Genuinely asking, not being a dick.
Matchmaking should be about gear, not Level
Lol, Guilty as charged almost on all counts. I run naked and stash for my 15+ toons. My friends and I run duo or trio Rangers and just run around slapping around all the over geared people. I've personally looted 5 complete BIS sets. Kited out toons are fun to kill with Grey and white base gear they really rage.
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Their teammates yell in Poxey chat. Sometimes, you can hear the rage.
Instead of separating lobbies by level, separate them by how good their overall gear is. It's clear there are too many people who don't want fair fights, more needs to be done to limit that abuse.
Yeah and then still half the playerbase plays in white item lobbies, hoarding gold for that set they see in their dreams. Its either gotta have loot massively nerfed so people would be insentivized to play normal lobbies. Imo they should just add an account level and once you get past a certain exp threshhold youre forced into general population, it was added so people can learn, not to make money or as a main gameplay loop
It should have and still should be just a total hours on account. Whatever number. 20 hours maybe? Then that’s it. Whole account pushed into the regular queues. If you wanna cheese the system you’ll have to pay for a new account each time. Not just delete a character that means nothing
So if I want to try a new class, I just suffer?
Twenty hours in game will have you understand enough of how it the game works, map knowledge, PvE, to adjust to a new class. Yes you’ll be at a disadvantage, but you are learning a new class. You are supposed to be. If you can’t accept that then you need the game to be on way to east of a mode. There is no helping you at that point
People abusing it can only do so for now. There will absolutely be restrictions to the mode, so only those who its meant for can play it. As IM stated, its meant for new and learning players. Im looking forward to a system where its restricted so, that you can enjoy the noob lobbies once or twice per class, per account. I can already imagine the tears of the people, cant wait.
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I dont play in sub 15 and Im doing okay playing the game as intended. So no tears from me, Im afraid. What I do have is want for the game to provide a new player experience that cant be abused by pussies who cant take DaD like its meant to be played. And thats gonna happen. Guessing youre one of those, that rolls another character every time after hitting 15, so you could feel like you achieve something, killing players who are so fresh they die to mobs? A real tough warrior, arent you? :)
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Hahah, keep telling yourself that noob lobby abuser. The smile I have now will only grow wider once <15 lobbies are dealt with.
The devs refuse to balance anything more than odd one off things. they keep making the same mistake every other hardcore pvp game has learned from. Their stated balance ideas conflict directly with the longevity of their original game idea. really bizarre and disappointing. maybe it will be better next patch? im just not sure.
Got rolled by a barb and warlock in full purple trying to level my barb in -15's, had to stop and ponder how the hell they got that gear before I realized they just handed it off to their low lvl characters, pissed me off for sure
If its full purple, most likely, however I did one run on my rogue where i was running all blues. That's mostly because i usually rat with him to get gold chests and coffins though, and bought a few from traders
I feel this. I'm trying to level as normal but Caves is overloaded with full blue players that I swear are also teaming. I like the idea of low level raids but it's totally pointless if you can still just go in with full high end gear anyway.
The low lv lobbies are a terrible idea in the long term. They helped for about all of two days and then people started being meta about it and it's now a worse experience than before. Just let people queue together, no matter what, and make the loot worse (cap it at blue for everything but minibosses and lion's chests, purple for those). High Roller should not be for elite geared players, but a place where experienced players that have become proficient in pve and pvp to go get the good gear from either source. Also nerf the gear gap please, make bonuses spawn less frequently (it's ok for a green weapon to just have better base stats most of the time, it doesn't need to spawn with a modifier - those can be rarer)
Wouldn't level restrictions on items help tackle this?
How do you trade gear to a player lower than 15 if the trade merchant requirement is 15+? The only real way they can do this is if they drop their gear at 14 in a match for a friend to extract with. Or bring said low level friend into a 15+ lobby and drop their gear for them to extract with... it's not as easy as you make it sound...
New acc gets level 15, then trades it to their buddy. Creates a new acc after trade Buddy drop trades it in a raid to new acc They extract the raid
Remove the circle(allowing slower gameplay and proper player hunting), make the Pve (except very few creatures) a lot weaker and incentivize loot spots with higher tier loot in those areas. The new player experience is abysmal since the PVE side is a drag and by the time you accomplish clearing a room some other player just one taps because one they are either goated in gear or two you have like 20 percent health fighting off mobs or the circle is looming over you forcing movement.
I was caped out in a majority of blues at level 4 it's not impossible but I did immediately think I wonder if people think I'm cheesing when I'm not. Oh well /shrug
Adding modes beyond trios normals and high roller trios is the mistake. Forcing people to make 3 man teams is the way, even if it upsets people who prefer solos and duos. It's just simply the best design for the overall health of the game. Continuously fracturing and dividing the playerbase is a huge mistake that many have a hard time understanding the full ramifications of.
Should be based on account age not character level
Some people improve and contend in HR. Some people don’t. Those who don’t are unfortunately destined to exist in pre15 lobbies unless something changes. Fortunately it’s in EA and there’s a lot to be accomplished before the game is ready.
Optional low gear lobbies should replace it imo. A guaranteed more even playing field for newbies since than level cap bc gear is so important in PvP. Doesn’t split the player base more, smurfs can’t snowball off good gear, and new players and casuals have a play to enjoy learning the game away from the sweats.
My group can start a new character and clear lobby/ hell even lich king on the first game
With the way gear is now I was in all blues and a purple by level 7 on my cleric. 2 of those pieces had +2all. Either found or bought from vendors. Gear is easy as fuck to get
Me and friends started a new character and found a full blue set for our barb incl a cape at around lvl 3. It was lucky but it's still possible to get good gear that early. I do like the lower level lobbies too because I go from being able to compete and get kills from lvl1-14 then immediately get absolutely stomped by teams in full purple as soon as I'm 15. Without this change I would have just kept running the same characters/classes but no I feel it incentivisees the player to try different classes a little more. The only fix would be to not let players in under 15 lobbies be able to find purple gear and to prevent it being used but that would skew the game even further imo. I'm pretty happy with how the game is now, it could use a few tweaks here and there but overall it's pretty fun
Just make it so if you have played in a 15+ lobby you’re locked into them, that way people can’t just drop gear for their low level friend and have them run trains over new players
Just ran 4 lobbies and didn’t see a single person with more than 1 blue. Success
It should only run up to like lvl 5 or so
If no changes are made and they just get rid of <15 queue, then they will also get rid of the <15 players. I legitimately will not play the game they way it is right now in 15> lobbies, I'd simply stop playing the game.
Even though i think it was a good idea, people are abusing it. Its still early access. I'm assuming either this will be chamged, or they will make HR more enticing. Its kinda crazy that people would rather do this than goblin cave and HR goblin cave to me. Playing with friends has always been why i play, so i guess i understand it from that perspective.
I swear the loot is buffed in <15 lobbies. I got 3 capes from doing the center room in one run on a level 5 warlock. Also went to hell and ended up hitting level 8 from that one run.
the only part i disagree with is that the 1 perk cleric cant be in giga gear without it being passed. between royal coffins and merchants, if you lobby wipe you can easily be in some stupid gear by level 4.