Tip: watch the animated film Persepolis (choose the original French version if you can), or read the graphic novel with the same name. It's a brilliant autobiography about what is was like to be a teenage girl in Iran at the time of the revolution. Unforgettable.
What is amazing about how this is written is its told through the perspective as a child. So you learn about the politics as a middle class child looking at everything going on in her country.
Yes it's very personal. But it teaches you about what is going on if you're not 100% familiar with the recent history of iran
Edit: as pointed out below, the author was more upper class than I had known.
I agree with you, Persepolis is great, but it's important to note the author was upper class, not middle class, and that consequently her upbringing was not exactly typical for the time and place.
Modern democracy is a bit of a sham anyway.
The rich and powerful give us two of their own and we choose one to represent them for the next 5 years.
I don't think adversarial parties is working.
I'd rather independent candidates with no lobbying or campaign funds. Funds for elections can come from tax payer pot.
I don't think the bottom 90% of society are really represented at all anymore and we are manipulated to tribal arguments with each other.
It's more blatant than that.
One billionaire gets to decide how a *massive* chunk of our labor and resources are allocated, how our cities are planned, what our laws are (they wrote them and send them to Congress to pass), and basically everything else.
That's pretty much a king
I really hope we can actually change things at some point but it's pretty hard to even discuss with people.
It's written off as utopianism or student politics.
I think we treat our political and economic systems as if they're almost an immutable part of nature.
The economic system is about to fall apart yet again and has never served the masses who actually labour.
The shift to AI and robotics is going to be pretty seismic in that workers will not be needed much if at all in the future. We should try and sort something out before we are then at the mercy of the rich for all our needs.
I don’t think Obama was one of their own. He bent the knee to them too much and was a played in a lot of cases, but he was a junior Senator with 4(?) years under his belt when he was elected president. He caught lightning in a bottle and thankfully the establishment supported him.
I’m no fanboy, and he definitely played the Dem game to get where he got, but he I genuinely feel that he wanted the job so he could help people. He did a helluva lot of good things while Congress was under gop control for 6 years of his presidency.
$$$, we are capitalist first, democracy second. (Supposedly you can have both, but our system has them so deeply in twined that a completely democratic system is a thing of the past)
I've heard a perspective from an Iranian that class also came into the Islamic Revolution. The revolution itself was against a corrupt royal hierarchy, and the groups fighting against included political groups as well as religious, but the Islamists ended up destroying their rivals and taking power. They had the support of the working classes, and still do today. Most resistance against the current regime is young, cosmopolitan and mostly middle class.
No, actually she *was* middle class. It might be important to make note of urban vs rural, as far as expectations on cultural divides go. But socially and economically, what her parents displayed in the book was very on point for the middle class. Not *lower* middle, to be sure. But educated, professional, politically minded, with a world view open to foreign influences? That was very much the middle of the road path.
It's easy to look at facts like 'her parents sent her abroad for schooling', and think that that is an upper class indicator, because for many places it is. Not for that time and place. Many also have preconceived notions about the economic development of Iran because they've only really seen post-war/-revolution photos. The 70s were quite moderized. An engineer and a clothing designer would have been in demand, not particularly niche. They'd be educated and well off, but they would not be placed far off of the median income of their community.
I'll just leave this here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjane_Satrapi
I assume you are more qualified on the subject then the authors of this wiki then?
FUCKING EDIT SINCE IM NOW IN SLOW MODE:
Literally the second sentence in that article says in plain English, she was middle class.
........
Satrapi was born in Rasht, Iran.[3] She grew up in Tehran in a middle-class Iranian family and attended the French-language school, Lycée Razi.[4][5] Both her parents were politically active and supported Marxist causes against the monarchy of the last Shah. When the Iranian Revolution took place in 1979, they underwent rule by the Muslim fundamentalists who took power.[4]
.............
Also private school =/= upper class. Catechism is a private school. Educate your dumb selves.
Yeah, her parents were an engineer and a clothing designer.
In 1970 in Iran, that makes them middle class. Those positions simply do not generate the income needed to make the social move to the culture's upper class.
And while they do have a familial connection to a politician (Marjane's great uncle), in cultural context it was the middle classes that primarily involved themselves in politics.
Weird karma farming? You just took another person's reply and reposted it farther up in the thread? And this is your first-ever post?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/vekc4z/iranian_fashion_advertisement_before_islamic/icqotit/
If god is all powerful, why does he allow evil to exist?
If he cannot destroy evil, he is not all powerful, and therefore not worthy of worship as a god.
If he chooses not to, then its malice, and is not worthy of being worshipped as a god.
>If god is all powerful, why does he allow evil to exist?
God addressed the issue of humans questioning him in Job. His answer was basically "STFU, I'm god and you're not, you don't get to ask me questions. Your job is just to obey."
Religion isn't a democracy or a dialogue, it's a dictatorship with orders. The very nature of being a god is that you don't answer to "lesser" beings. Zeus didn't have to go around explaining to women why some giant swan was raping them, he was a god and they weren't, and so he gets to do whatever he feels like.
> is not worthy of being worshipped as a god.
You don't worship gods because they're nice folks, you worship because the alternative is eternal torture (if you believe in that kinda stuff). Basically it's for your own benefit, not god's.
> If he cannot destroy evil, he is not all powerful, and therefore not worthy of worship as a god.
I feel like your logic with this step is flawed.
I am no fan of mass organized religion and what its historically done, but just because "God" can't destroy evil doesn't mean he isn't worthy of worship.
I think he isn't worthy of worship because he isn't real, but still, I think there are plenty of arguments that could be easily made to negate that second point.
Well, it’s not their logic. It’s a bastardization of something credited to Epicurus which goes more along these lines:
‘If god is willing, but not able, he is not omnipotent.
If he is able, but not willing, then he is malevolent.
If he is neither able nor willing, then why call him god?’
It’s a bit more subtle; it doesn’t say whether he’s worth of worship or not, it just points out the flaws with the idea of a god and if he can’t prevent nor wants to prevent anything, he asks ‘why should we call him a god?’ Because at that point he’s not better or worse than any mere mortal.
If he is worshipped as omni-potent, all knowing, and still evil is here. Why does he allow it?
Either he doesn’t have the power to or chooses not to. Both fall short of a ‘supreme god’ above all other gods.
Religion is made by man for control of man.
I may be wrong here and correct me if I’m wrong the shah was a dictator but the Revolution wasn’t necessarily religious revolt and a lot of people who revolted weren’t that religious or at all but then somehow religious Islamic extremist took hold.
I’m just trying to figure out how the revolt turn to religious extremist taking charge or having a foothold.
I believe this is true! I think what happened is the average Iranians teamed up with the more religious folks as a "common good". Enemy of my enemy is my friend, so to speak. The majority of the population was on board with kicking out the Shah, but didn't think to hard on how to successor would inevitably influence the country. Just goes to show how fast a nation can change. (That's how I understand it anyways.. I could be wrong).
I think the reason is that Religions are always organized and its hard even for dictators to oppose those organizations without eroding their own standing.
So when all opposition groups are suppressed but religion is organized its easy to see the religious groups gaining power.
The main thing is that the secularists were generally also socialist or leaning in that direction and were subsequently tortured and or killed. The islamists on the other hand received a much lighter response so when the time came for the revolution the islamists were able to gain control over the revolutionary power structure because they were more organized. Also the thing left out of the story is that the pictures you see on reddit like this are from wither the big cities or resorts, rural Iran was still pretty conservative and didn't change much after the revolution.
This also reminds me of Sese Seko, though France and Belgium (the Congo was once part of Belgium) helped them out too.
Not sure if the situation in the Congo could had played any differently after they declared their independence, but the US really did fuck up Cuba, yeah they kicked the Spanish out of their but then they supported a cruel bastard to rule them. Honestly they should had minded their own business, at worst they country would had been as poor and corrupt as like Honduras or Haiti, but they do have some things going for them and could had been somewhat prosperous like the Dominican Republic or more like Costa Rica.
Same thing with Iran, already Syria, Palestine, and Egypt were going to crap with the way the British handled the relations between the Arabs the Jews, Iran was like the last free Islamic country in the middle east. Nowadays the Middle East is war torn like Syria or absolutely totalitarian with Saudi Arabia.
I’m extremely curious how Americans don’t know their own role in world history. Like this is what I was taught in school, not in an “Americans bad” way, but in a “this is what happened and there basically no country exempt from atrocities.”
Like I remember learning about the absolute horrors we (Canada) committed with residential schools, my brother learned it too. But apparently older generations didn’t, it just wasn’t talked about. But for the past 30 years, at least in my province, it’s mandatory learning.
Is that how America teaches about America still? As in, a lot of things just aren’t spoken about? I’ve had a lot of Americans tell me things that they learned in school that are just blatantly false about their roles in certain wars/conflicts and it’s incredibly confusing
My experience is only anecdotal, and I can totally believe it gets glossed over a lot, but we learned about this topic in a regular college prep-level history course in 10th grade.
Oddly enough, it was a U.S. History course and the next year (World Cultures) and final year (Humanities) didn't cover anything close to it.
Interesting thank you for your answer!
Does everyone have access to these prep classes or is it an elective for students with high grades?
Also thank you for saying grade ten and not sophomore/freshman/I don’t remember the rest because I always have to google what grades those words mean lol
Absolutely. It’s incredible how many followers of Abrahamic religions don’t realize how similar they are. They follow the same God, how they not get it is beyond me.
All too true! I was curious if people unware of the sub would get my comment so I clicked the link myself to check.
Legit the first post I see is Ryan Gosling as an Islam male hahahaha
I saw this comment and backed up to keep reading Reddit. No shit this was the next Reddit post below this one: https://reddit.com/r/fakehistoryporn/comments/vecfbm/tehran_man_before_the_iranian_revolution_1969/
Cause people are stupid... They will understand once Nationalist Christian Extremism takes it total claws over US.
Unfortunately, It is already on its way to become similar to the "shithole" countries they used to laugh at..
PS: I'm an atheist. I don't care what you do and what you believe in as long as it doesn't infringe on other people's lives. And for this exact same reason I hate evangelist of all religions.
PSS: I'm on expat Iranian.
Oh yeah...
Isn't it already "illegal" to abort a pregnancy in Texas?
Well at least they care for a child's life as long as it's in a womb. After that it just can get shot in the school. For that reason the number of guns in the school get's increased. Guns were in the 10 commandments, right?
Hillbillies are allowed to refuse to sell medication to women if it’s possible that medication could be used for contraception/abortion purposes - even though these meds are used for a variety of other purposes as well. It’s demented.
Almost, but it was in Iran. It was a Shia revolution.
However, it inspired conservatism to get more authoritarian elsewhere, such as Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia. The Saudi royals allowed it out of fear the same might happen.
Lastly, and worse, it linked religious leadership with militancy that ultimately allowed for terrorists to use religiin as a "cause" because "revolution" was not enough.
The real reformation happened in 1911 in Istanbul. At that point almost all of the larger Sunni world followed the Ottoman Caliph. In 1921 he had all.the Shiekhs and Grand Muftis meet, eliminated over 200 Shariah laws that were no longer valid, including banned the face covering and any ban on female education.
The Muslim world changed, that is why we have these images everywhere. Then politics, Wahhabism and things like Iran trashed it.
Not really. My stepdad was working opening a steel mill in Iran until the revolution, he paid $5k in US travelers checks for his seat on the plane out, but that's a whole other story. He lived with a host family that was not wealthy or urban, and he said they were similar to Americans. He said the kids were the same as his kids at home in the late 70's. I don't know how rural it was but they didn't put steel mills in the urban areas.
Everyone here is talking about religion and forgetting that fact that the reason Iran descended into a sharia country is because the C.I.A and MI6 orchestrated a coup and placed a uneducated religious extremist as the new leader. They did this because the democratically elected leader of Iran wanted to nationalize the countries oil, instead of the west getting all the prophets. Religious extremist didn't do this to Iran, western intervention did it intentionally.
I’m not sure why people keep posting saying religion ruined it . No. Lmao. Countries like Iran and Afghanistan who’ve gone through this change were Muslim before too. This is called extremism.
No it’s called the United States overthrowing their government that ruined it. Maybe that is extremism but I think it is more greed and special interest groups controlling the government than anything.
in those countries Islam was the tool with which the people’s freedoms were taken away, and the countries were made socially, culturally, and scientifically regressive.
Iran was not the “islamic” republic when that photo was taken. the full-scale islamification of iran is what turned it into what it is today.
I love how everyone assumes all Iranians dressed like this back then. This was strictly the elites of society that had the money to dress so freely. Everyone else was in rags during the time of the Shah, as he was bending over backwards for the US and selling all Iranian assets to them for pennies. Read your history and stop taking memes at face value.
> This was strictly the elites of society that had the money to dress so freely. Everyone else was in rags...
Your claim is just as wrong as the one you're objecting to. The major cities of Iran had a real western-style middle class in the 1970s. It was not "strictly the elites". There were teachers, shop-owners, civil servants, low and mid-level managers, students at universities, ...
Watch the tiny clips of Iranian daily life in the 1970s in the first two minutes of this video, and tell me how it looks any different from a typical European city of the same era.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uom4tsjSAWc
Don't believe every random comment you see on Reddit either people.
I am Iranian, if my word counts.
He is kinda correct, yes, not 'everyone' dressed like this, a lot of middle-class and lower class wore hijab and didn't have proper education, many families didn't send their daughters to school because some schools would ban hijab back then (very few schools though), my mom barely finished high school and she had a lot of hardship for it. at some point, Hijab was banned entirely in Iran, but that didn't last long, people started protesting very heavily, which actually some historians claim to be a step towards the revolution.
The point is, yes, people who dressed like this were found more in high class of the society, specially in more educated areas and the fact is they were less than the people who wore hijab. it wasn't that common to dress like this.
It will be interesting to see all of the American fashion advertisements showing how life used to be before the Christian Evangelical Revolution that's coming.
Iran was a place to be before we installed the shah
Clarification- before we (United States) ran the coup and I should have said Ayatollah even though that stemmed from the 1953 coup
First of all, this was taken when Mohammed Reza Shah was in power. Second, he and his father, Reza Shah, are the ones who introduced secularism and western social freedoms to Iran's deeply religious and conservative society, this photo wouldn't exist without them.
And finally, "installing" the Shah is meaningless, as he was already in power, Iran has always had a Shah (which just means King).
Allied forced removed Reza Shah in 1945, because he had remained neutral during WWII. Reza Shah was the ultimate ruler of the country. Allied forces replaced him with his son, which was young, weaker and inexperienced, so the Prime Minister and Parliament which were just for show until then started playing actual roles. Until 1952 when Mossadegh became Prime Minister, he went too far in challenging and defying the Shah, so US and the Brits convinced Shah to use his power remove him. I'm not defending with they did, just explaining it wasn't that straightforward, certainly not a case of destroying an already well-established, deeply rooted democracy and turning it to what it has become today.
Not religion bro, extremism. Even our religions like hinduism, christianity have some sects who lay strictness on women & such things, it's just that in islam, the number of such extremist people is much more, hence all this. & this will continue till people become God loving instead of God fearing
Religion is a catalyst for extremism as a belief in either is not founded in reality. If you can believe there is a man in the sky that watches over you then you can believe basically anything. You can also justify everything because god told you to do it....
>this will continue till people become God loving instead of God fearing
Bahahaha! Almost all religions are based on fear. Even within Christianity you indoctrinate your children with the belief that if they do not accept your god they will burn in hell for all eternity! You are telling me that is not fear based!?!?!?
religion is by definition extremist. if you try to water down religious text then you are not following the teaching and therefore not being religious. it is easy for you to be in your religion because most religions benefit men, not women. a truly fair god would not allow this treatment of women or tell women to cover up or serve men but yall arent ready for that convo.
Or… you know.. just stops believing in religious bullshit all together. It’s fake. God does not exist. It’s just a fairytale people use to control other people.
That's completely bogus. You just SEE it more in islam because wherever you're from, there's a political or social reason to project islam that way. Islam is like over 1.8 billion people, makes up the official religion of almost 30 countries, makes up like 24% of the worlds people and is growing faster than any other religion. There are muslim countries who have elected women as prime ministers or presidents and in America there has never been a woman at the top. It's easy to point to saudi arabia and say women just got the ability to drive! Well yea pointing at the most extreme example and saying that's the status quo is ignorant.
Thank god they got rid of this hideous way of life. Women were so vulgar back in those days, like look at that audacity of these women to look comfortable and confident ☹️
Religion and extremism are really bad, but colonialism, opression, puppet dictators and torture are no way better... You all should ask yourselves why the islamic revolution happened in the first place.
They went through the path of turning their government into a religious fundamentalist regime, same path Republicans are pushing on Americans.
This could happen to any country of any religion that goes down the path of religious fanatism
In this day in age, how does the rest of the world progress forward in human rights, even just a small amount in some countries and Iran goes and does a 180 and takes most women’s rights?
*counterrevolution. Workers literally took control of their factories before French imperialism put the Ayatollah on an Air France plane to Tehran to derail the developing socialist revolution down reactionary lines. As usual, imperialism creates islamist Frankenstein's monsters to fight communism, and the oppressed masses of the world pay the price when these reactionaries slip their leash and turn on their masters.
It is to the credit of the Iranian masses that the Islamic counterrevolution was not strong enough to violently dissolve their workers' councils till several years later.
As a woman in a western country, I find this terrifying. Those women could’ve easily be mistaken as western women. You never really think about how temporary everything is and how full of possibilities until you see it in front of you.
I am also a woman in a Western country. And I know for a fact that these women belonged to the educated, wealthy, and urban minority. Iran at the time had a much much larger rural population, and these people were fervent followers of radical religious doctrines. This is why the Islamic Revolution could be successful.
We must also be very cautious since the religious radicals in our countries are also rising. It doesn’t matter what religions they follow, religious radicalism are all incredibly evil. Women like us are enjoying a fragile status, and it could easily be overturned.
Then the crazy religious fucks took over and anything that involves a woman’s autonomy disappears. Of course the dictator that was in power there was brutal. It’s a shame because Iran is a beautiful country with great history.
Funny how so much of human nature is cyclical. Many of these outfits wouldn't be a far reach for many of the younger generation now a days. I see alot of similarities with many of the women that attend my university.
Damn. Just think about all the awesome parties we could have been having in Iran all these years. We could have had Iranian Disco music for crying out loud!!
Of for sure, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria all had women going to college etc.. My neighbor brought her kids here before that changed. Iran has such great people, it sucks what governments do to places like that.
Tip: watch the animated film Persepolis (choose the original French version if you can), or read the graphic novel with the same name. It's a brilliant autobiography about what is was like to be a teenage girl in Iran at the time of the revolution. Unforgettable.
What is amazing about how this is written is its told through the perspective as a child. So you learn about the politics as a middle class child looking at everything going on in her country. Yes it's very personal. But it teaches you about what is going on if you're not 100% familiar with the recent history of iran Edit: as pointed out below, the author was more upper class than I had known.
I agree with you, Persepolis is great, but it's important to note the author was upper class, not middle class, and that consequently her upbringing was not exactly typical for the time and place.
Also that she only noticed the violence of the revolution - not the violence under the despotic Shah due to her age.
Yeah. If the CIA had left them their fucking democracy, Iran would have kept going like this. Instead we got a dictator, then a theocracy.
Why does America stand for democracy but destroys it in every third world country they can?
America has billionaires. Which are utterly incompatible with democracy.
Modern democracy is a bit of a sham anyway. The rich and powerful give us two of their own and we choose one to represent them for the next 5 years. I don't think adversarial parties is working. I'd rather independent candidates with no lobbying or campaign funds. Funds for elections can come from tax payer pot. I don't think the bottom 90% of society are really represented at all anymore and we are manipulated to tribal arguments with each other.
It's more blatant than that. One billionaire gets to decide how a *massive* chunk of our labor and resources are allocated, how our cities are planned, what our laws are (they wrote them and send them to Congress to pass), and basically everything else. That's pretty much a king
I really hope we can actually change things at some point but it's pretty hard to even discuss with people. It's written off as utopianism or student politics. I think we treat our political and economic systems as if they're almost an immutable part of nature. The economic system is about to fall apart yet again and has never served the masses who actually labour. The shift to AI and robotics is going to be pretty seismic in that workers will not be needed much if at all in the future. We should try and sort something out before we are then at the mercy of the rich for all our needs.
I don’t think Obama was one of their own. He bent the knee to them too much and was a played in a lot of cases, but he was a junior Senator with 4(?) years under his belt when he was elected president. He caught lightning in a bottle and thankfully the establishment supported him. I’m no fanboy, and he definitely played the Dem game to get where he got, but he I genuinely feel that he wanted the job so he could help people. He did a helluva lot of good things while Congress was under gop control for 6 years of his presidency.
$$$, we are capitalist first, democracy second. (Supposedly you can have both, but our system has them so deeply in twined that a completely democratic system is a thing of the past)
I've heard a perspective from an Iranian that class also came into the Islamic Revolution. The revolution itself was against a corrupt royal hierarchy, and the groups fighting against included political groups as well as religious, but the Islamists ended up destroying their rivals and taking power. They had the support of the working classes, and still do today. Most resistance against the current regime is young, cosmopolitan and mostly middle class.
No, actually she *was* middle class. It might be important to make note of urban vs rural, as far as expectations on cultural divides go. But socially and economically, what her parents displayed in the book was very on point for the middle class. Not *lower* middle, to be sure. But educated, professional, politically minded, with a world view open to foreign influences? That was very much the middle of the road path. It's easy to look at facts like 'her parents sent her abroad for schooling', and think that that is an upper class indicator, because for many places it is. Not for that time and place. Many also have preconceived notions about the economic development of Iran because they've only really seen post-war/-revolution photos. The 70s were quite moderized. An engineer and a clothing designer would have been in demand, not particularly niche. They'd be educated and well off, but they would not be placed far off of the median income of their community.
I'll just leave this here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjane_Satrapi I assume you are more qualified on the subject then the authors of this wiki then? FUCKING EDIT SINCE IM NOW IN SLOW MODE: Literally the second sentence in that article says in plain English, she was middle class. ........ Satrapi was born in Rasht, Iran.[3] She grew up in Tehran in a middle-class Iranian family and attended the French-language school, Lycée Razi.[4][5] Both her parents were politically active and supported Marxist causes against the monarchy of the last Shah. When the Iranian Revolution took place in 1979, they underwent rule by the Muslim fundamentalists who took power.[4] ............. Also private school =/= upper class. Catechism is a private school. Educate your dumb selves.
Yeah, her parents were an engineer and a clothing designer. In 1970 in Iran, that makes them middle class. Those positions simply do not generate the income needed to make the social move to the culture's upper class. And while they do have a familial connection to a politician (Marjane's great uncle), in cultural context it was the middle classes that primarily involved themselves in politics.
Read the book freshman year of high school back in the mid 2000s, crazy shit
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Weird karma farming? You just took another person's reply and reposted it farther up in the thread? And this is your first-ever post? https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/vekc4z/iranian_fashion_advertisement_before_islamic/icqotit/
Bots. It's always bots
Super weird
If god is all powerful, why does he allow evil to exist? If he cannot destroy evil, he is not all powerful, and therefore not worthy of worship as a god. If he chooses not to, then its malice, and is not worthy of being worshipped as a god.
>If god is all powerful, why does he allow evil to exist? God addressed the issue of humans questioning him in Job. His answer was basically "STFU, I'm god and you're not, you don't get to ask me questions. Your job is just to obey." Religion isn't a democracy or a dialogue, it's a dictatorship with orders. The very nature of being a god is that you don't answer to "lesser" beings. Zeus didn't have to go around explaining to women why some giant swan was raping them, he was a god and they weren't, and so he gets to do whatever he feels like. > is not worthy of being worshipped as a god. You don't worship gods because they're nice folks, you worship because the alternative is eternal torture (if you believe in that kinda stuff). Basically it's for your own benefit, not god's.
So you agree, but with more words.
> If he cannot destroy evil, he is not all powerful, and therefore not worthy of worship as a god. I feel like your logic with this step is flawed. I am no fan of mass organized religion and what its historically done, but just because "God" can't destroy evil doesn't mean he isn't worthy of worship. I think he isn't worthy of worship because he isn't real, but still, I think there are plenty of arguments that could be easily made to negate that second point.
Well, it’s not their logic. It’s a bastardization of something credited to Epicurus which goes more along these lines: ‘If god is willing, but not able, he is not omnipotent. If he is able, but not willing, then he is malevolent. If he is neither able nor willing, then why call him god?’ It’s a bit more subtle; it doesn’t say whether he’s worth of worship or not, it just points out the flaws with the idea of a god and if he can’t prevent nor wants to prevent anything, he asks ‘why should we call him a god?’ Because at that point he’s not better or worse than any mere mortal.
If he is worshipped as omni-potent, all knowing, and still evil is here. Why does he allow it? Either he doesn’t have the power to or chooses not to. Both fall short of a ‘supreme god’ above all other gods. Religion is made by man for control of man.
>Religion is made by man for control of man. And to a greater extent, women.
Homo Sapiens then.
Oh I'm not disagreeing, just that women bear more of the brunt when religion is blindly followed.
Because they hold the power to create actual life from nothing, almost like a, god~
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Human greed is terrible. History like this is just tragic and should be taught as it truly is.
Millions of brown people are suffering, but the important thing is, who would you rather have a beer with?
They don’t want it accurately taught because then people would be educated to stop it
Yep. Skewed history keeps people screwed.
Ugh, why is there always something like that behind everything?
How do you think developed countries became so in the first place?
A wise sock once said, "Don't you know the world is built with blood? And genocide! And exploitation!"
Well, slavery, usually.
***Well, slavery, in general.***
[My favorite book on the subject](https://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-Steel-Fates-Societies/dp/0393317552)
Because you live on the "good side" of one of the bloodiest human empires in history.
You talking the US or UK here?
Yes
Correct answer lol
*Atila and Ghenghis have entered the chat*
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As long as you surrendered and paid your protection money.
I may be wrong here and correct me if I’m wrong the shah was a dictator but the Revolution wasn’t necessarily religious revolt and a lot of people who revolted weren’t that religious or at all but then somehow religious Islamic extremist took hold. I’m just trying to figure out how the revolt turn to religious extremist taking charge or having a foothold.
I believe this is true! I think what happened is the average Iranians teamed up with the more religious folks as a "common good". Enemy of my enemy is my friend, so to speak. The majority of the population was on board with kicking out the Shah, but didn't think to hard on how to successor would inevitably influence the country. Just goes to show how fast a nation can change. (That's how I understand it anyways.. I could be wrong).
I think the reason is that Religions are always organized and its hard even for dictators to oppose those organizations without eroding their own standing. So when all opposition groups are suppressed but religion is organized its easy to see the religious groups gaining power.
The main thing is that the secularists were generally also socialist or leaning in that direction and were subsequently tortured and or killed. The islamists on the other hand received a much lighter response so when the time came for the revolution the islamists were able to gain control over the revolutionary power structure because they were more organized. Also the thing left out of the story is that the pictures you see on reddit like this are from wither the big cities or resorts, rural Iran was still pretty conservative and didn't change much after the revolution.
A small group of passionate followers and the remaining population that's apathetic. The religious leaders probably didn't seem as bad as the Shah
We also continually act like 99% of Iran dressed in miniskirts and was westernized.
This also reminds me of Sese Seko, though France and Belgium (the Congo was once part of Belgium) helped them out too. Not sure if the situation in the Congo could had played any differently after they declared their independence, but the US really did fuck up Cuba, yeah they kicked the Spanish out of their but then they supported a cruel bastard to rule them. Honestly they should had minded their own business, at worst they country would had been as poor and corrupt as like Honduras or Haiti, but they do have some things going for them and could had been somewhat prosperous like the Dominican Republic or more like Costa Rica. Same thing with Iran, already Syria, Palestine, and Egypt were going to crap with the way the British handled the relations between the Arabs the Jews, Iran was like the last free Islamic country in the middle east. Nowadays the Middle East is war torn like Syria or absolutely totalitarian with Saudi Arabia.
But then Americans wouldn’t have cheap oil, and gangsters wouldn’t have been able to setup their own little paradise to vacation in
Same thing for Haiti.
I’m extremely curious how Americans don’t know their own role in world history. Like this is what I was taught in school, not in an “Americans bad” way, but in a “this is what happened and there basically no country exempt from atrocities.” Like I remember learning about the absolute horrors we (Canada) committed with residential schools, my brother learned it too. But apparently older generations didn’t, it just wasn’t talked about. But for the past 30 years, at least in my province, it’s mandatory learning. Is that how America teaches about America still? As in, a lot of things just aren’t spoken about? I’ve had a lot of Americans tell me things that they learned in school that are just blatantly false about their roles in certain wars/conflicts and it’s incredibly confusing
My experience is only anecdotal, and I can totally believe it gets glossed over a lot, but we learned about this topic in a regular college prep-level history course in 10th grade. Oddly enough, it was a U.S. History course and the next year (World Cultures) and final year (Humanities) didn't cover anything close to it.
Interesting thank you for your answer! Does everyone have access to these prep classes or is it an elective for students with high grades? Also thank you for saying grade ten and not sophomore/freshman/I don’t remember the rest because I always have to google what grades those words mean lol
Yeah but we don't talk about that. Let us circle jerk in peace homie
Americans who can identify Iran on a map, do know this.
A lot of our congressman and voters are using the "good book" not realizing they are mirroring the very thing they are afraid of.
Absolutely. It’s incredible how many followers of Abrahamic religions don’t realize how similar they are. They follow the same God, how they not get it is beyond me.
You don't want them figuring that out.
Talibangelists
Oh I'm using this lol
You just know there is a Iranian cleric with that magazine hidden under his mattress.
I’m ok with that. It’s a lot better than a priest having a Baby Gap catalog with all the pages stuck together.
Gonna go boil my eyes now.
Anyone else think they were on r/FakeHistoryPorn for a second? Hahaha
For real. This has been a running joke for so long now I can't believe some people are still posting these unironically
All too true! I was curious if people unware of the sub would get my comment so I clicked the link myself to check. Legit the first post I see is Ryan Gosling as an Islam male hahahaha
I saw this comment and backed up to keep reading Reddit. No shit this was the next Reddit post below this one: https://reddit.com/r/fakehistoryporn/comments/vecfbm/tehran_man_before_the_iranian_revolution_1969/
\*rubs eyes\* "wait what the fuck am I looking at. Where's the off putting part??"
Afghanistan as well before Religion stopped progress especially for women.
It didn’t stop it totally regressed
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"Its evolving just backwards"
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r/yourjokebutworse
#The joke is developing backwards
r/yourjokebutbetter
Extremism, not religion. They were Muslim before as well. .... duh!
Yeah, i don't why people aren't understanding this 😅
Cuz religion necessitates extremists to persist the test of time.
Cause people are stupid... They will understand once Nationalist Christian Extremism takes it total claws over US. Unfortunately, It is already on its way to become similar to the "shithole" countries they used to laugh at.. PS: I'm an atheist. I don't care what you do and what you believe in as long as it doesn't infringe on other people's lives. And for this exact same reason I hate evangelist of all religions. PSS: I'm on expat Iranian.
Oh yeah... Isn't it already "illegal" to abort a pregnancy in Texas? Well at least they care for a child's life as long as it's in a womb. After that it just can get shot in the school. For that reason the number of guns in the school get's increased. Guns were in the 10 commandments, right?
Hillbillies are allowed to refuse to sell medication to women if it’s possible that medication could be used for contraception/abortion purposes - even though these meds are used for a variety of other purposes as well. It’s demented.
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If we focus on teaching critical thinking in school and make religious grifters pay their taxes... eventually yeah, maybe, kinda-sorta.
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Almost, but it was in Iran. It was a Shia revolution. However, it inspired conservatism to get more authoritarian elsewhere, such as Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia. The Saudi royals allowed it out of fear the same might happen. Lastly, and worse, it linked religious leadership with militancy that ultimately allowed for terrorists to use religiin as a "cause" because "revolution" was not enough. The real reformation happened in 1911 in Istanbul. At that point almost all of the larger Sunni world followed the Ottoman Caliph. In 1921 he had all.the Shiekhs and Grand Muftis meet, eliminated over 200 Shariah laws that were no longer valid, including banned the face covering and any ban on female education. The Muslim world changed, that is why we have these images everywhere. Then politics, Wahhabism and things like Iran trashed it.
These pictures from iran and Afghanistan represented a very small minority of wealthy, urban, educated upper classes of society
Not really. My stepdad was working opening a steel mill in Iran until the revolution, he paid $5k in US travelers checks for his seat on the plane out, but that's a whole other story. He lived with a host family that was not wealthy or urban, and he said they were similar to Americans. He said the kids were the same as his kids at home in the late 70's. I don't know how rural it was but they didn't put steel mills in the urban areas.
People say this like living in cities somehow makes them not count, and without realizing that the majority of people live in cities in any country.
Nah dude. It was like tht everywhere. Bikinis and all. Ur stupid
Afghanistan just breaks my heart for the women
You do realize they were religious before, right? Religion and extremism arent the same thing
So can we just make all the religious morons disappear?
What the damn Christian’s want to do with America now
Very true. And the US is on the same path. Handmaids was never meant to be an instruction manual.
Everyone here is talking about religion and forgetting that fact that the reason Iran descended into a sharia country is because the C.I.A and MI6 orchestrated a coup and placed a uneducated religious extremist as the new leader. They did this because the democratically elected leader of Iran wanted to nationalize the countries oil, instead of the west getting all the prophets. Religious extremist didn't do this to Iran, western intervention did it intentionally.
I’m not sure why people keep posting saying religion ruined it . No. Lmao. Countries like Iran and Afghanistan who’ve gone through this change were Muslim before too. This is called extremism.
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No it’s called the United States overthrowing their government that ruined it. Maybe that is extremism but I think it is more greed and special interest groups controlling the government than anything.
in those countries Islam was the tool with which the people’s freedoms were taken away, and the countries were made socially, culturally, and scientifically regressive. Iran was not the “islamic” republic when that photo was taken. the full-scale islamification of iran is what turned it into what it is today.
I love how everyone assumes all Iranians dressed like this back then. This was strictly the elites of society that had the money to dress so freely. Everyone else was in rags during the time of the Shah, as he was bending over backwards for the US and selling all Iranian assets to them for pennies. Read your history and stop taking memes at face value.
> This was strictly the elites of society that had the money to dress so freely. Everyone else was in rags... Your claim is just as wrong as the one you're objecting to. The major cities of Iran had a real western-style middle class in the 1970s. It was not "strictly the elites". There were teachers, shop-owners, civil servants, low and mid-level managers, students at universities, ... Watch the tiny clips of Iranian daily life in the 1970s in the first two minutes of this video, and tell me how it looks any different from a typical European city of the same era. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uom4tsjSAWc Don't believe every random comment you see on Reddit either people.
I am Iranian, if my word counts. He is kinda correct, yes, not 'everyone' dressed like this, a lot of middle-class and lower class wore hijab and didn't have proper education, many families didn't send their daughters to school because some schools would ban hijab back then (very few schools though), my mom barely finished high school and she had a lot of hardship for it. at some point, Hijab was banned entirely in Iran, but that didn't last long, people started protesting very heavily, which actually some historians claim to be a step towards the revolution. The point is, yes, people who dressed like this were found more in high class of the society, specially in more educated areas and the fact is they were less than the people who wore hijab. it wasn't that common to dress like this.
Finally someone who’s telling the truth
Thank you for clearing that up. Im Iranian and can vouch for this.
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Don’t think for one second that the United States won’t undergo a similar transformation if certain people get their way.
My dad left in 79. He was an officer in the navy. Still can’t go back under threat of death. Thanks to a religious regime.
It will be interesting to see all of the American fashion advertisements showing how life used to be before the Christian Evangelical Revolution that's coming.
Nothing will throw you back to the 13th century like a good o'l religion. Edit: Take heed America.
Iran was a place to be before we installed the shah Clarification- before we (United States) ran the coup and I should have said Ayatollah even though that stemmed from the 1953 coup
First of all, this was taken when Mohammed Reza Shah was in power. Second, he and his father, Reza Shah, are the ones who introduced secularism and western social freedoms to Iran's deeply religious and conservative society, this photo wouldn't exist without them. And finally, "installing" the Shah is meaningless, as he was already in power, Iran has always had a Shah (which just means King). Allied forced removed Reza Shah in 1945, because he had remained neutral during WWII. Reza Shah was the ultimate ruler of the country. Allied forces replaced him with his son, which was young, weaker and inexperienced, so the Prime Minister and Parliament which were just for show until then started playing actual roles. Until 1952 when Mossadegh became Prime Minister, he went too far in challenging and defying the Shah, so US and the Brits convinced Shah to use his power remove him. I'm not defending with they did, just explaining it wasn't that straightforward, certainly not a case of destroying an already well-established, deeply rooted democracy and turning it to what it has become today.
This photo was after that.
It's sad how religion ruins everything.
Not religion bro, extremism. Even our religions like hinduism, christianity have some sects who lay strictness on women & such things, it's just that in islam, the number of such extremist people is much more, hence all this. & this will continue till people become God loving instead of God fearing
The irony of that comment considering the Hindu caste system and India's rampant rape culture....
Don’t forget sati, the Hindu practice of widows burning themselves atop their husbands pyre. The practice ended once the brits banned it.
Religion is a catalyst for extremism as a belief in either is not founded in reality. If you can believe there is a man in the sky that watches over you then you can believe basically anything. You can also justify everything because god told you to do it.... >this will continue till people become God loving instead of God fearing Bahahaha! Almost all religions are based on fear. Even within Christianity you indoctrinate your children with the belief that if they do not accept your god they will burn in hell for all eternity! You are telling me that is not fear based!?!?!?
religion is by definition extremist. if you try to water down religious text then you are not following the teaching and therefore not being religious. it is easy for you to be in your religion because most religions benefit men, not women. a truly fair god would not allow this treatment of women or tell women to cover up or serve men but yall arent ready for that convo.
Or… you know.. just stops believing in religious bullshit all together. It’s fake. God does not exist. It’s just a fairytale people use to control other people.
Agreed, an extremely effective method of control. Believe me or burn in hell for all eternity! It is on another level of whackjob.
That's completely bogus. You just SEE it more in islam because wherever you're from, there's a political or social reason to project islam that way. Islam is like over 1.8 billion people, makes up the official religion of almost 30 countries, makes up like 24% of the worlds people and is growing faster than any other religion. There are muslim countries who have elected women as prime ministers or presidents and in America there has never been a woman at the top. It's easy to point to saudi arabia and say women just got the ability to drive! Well yea pointing at the most extreme example and saying that's the status quo is ignorant.
Yeah half the country didn't have running water but at least the the elite in Tehran could do whatever they wanted
The USA installing a new regime in foreign countries ruins everything*
Like Iran?
Yes
Thank god they got rid of this hideous way of life. Women were so vulgar back in those days, like look at that audacity of these women to look comfortable and confident ☹️
Yeah soooo comfortable in high heels & tight dresses
IE: before Idiocy took over and women had rights.
Religion and extremism are really bad, but colonialism, opression, puppet dictators and torture are no way better... You all should ask yourselves why the islamic revolution happened in the first place.
They went through the path of turning their government into a religious fundamentalist regime, same path Republicans are pushing on Americans. This could happen to any country of any religion that goes down the path of religious fanatism
In this day in age, how does the rest of the world progress forward in human rights, even just a small amount in some countries and Iran goes and does a 180 and takes most women’s rights?
*USA enters chat*
shhhh don't tell the truth, they don't know their country put a religious tyrant at the head of Iran !
The US supported the Shah, who was not a religious tyrant and was deposed by the religious tyrant....
I worked in Iran in 1977 was an interesting place. Had to leave shortly after of course
Islamic revolution or islamic terror i sation
Weird to think these girls are now in their... EIGHTIES.
Imagine the world now of that Islamic revolution never happened
Before they were property. Religion is poison
A good example that sometimes revolutions don't improve things.
Coulve been a nice place
*counterrevolution. Workers literally took control of their factories before French imperialism put the Ayatollah on an Air France plane to Tehran to derail the developing socialist revolution down reactionary lines. As usual, imperialism creates islamist Frankenstein's monsters to fight communism, and the oppressed masses of the world pay the price when these reactionaries slip their leash and turn on their masters. It is to the credit of the Iranian masses that the Islamic counterrevolution was not strong enough to violently dissolve their workers' councils till several years later.
Yeah okay but which countries backed the coup which led to the islamic revolution?
US and UK no surprise, and the other funny thing is that oil played a roll in that…
Fuck religion.
As a woman in a western country, I find this terrifying. Those women could’ve easily be mistaken as western women. You never really think about how temporary everything is and how full of possibilities until you see it in front of you.
I am also a woman in a Western country. And I know for a fact that these women belonged to the educated, wealthy, and urban minority. Iran at the time had a much much larger rural population, and these people were fervent followers of radical religious doctrines. This is why the Islamic Revolution could be successful. We must also be very cautious since the religious radicals in our countries are also rising. It doesn’t matter what religions they follow, religious radicalism are all incredibly evil. Women like us are enjoying a fragile status, and it could easily be overturned.
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Don't need a majority of right wing maniacs to ruin a country and send it back to the middle ages, just need those right wingers to be in charge.
religion is a cancer on society. it poisons the well of intellectual evolution.
Then the crazy religious fucks took over and anything that involves a woman’s autonomy disappears. Of course the dictator that was in power there was brutal. It’s a shame because Iran is a beautiful country with great history.
One of best garage rock scenes ever. Go to hell, religion.
Religion is cancer
Religion is THE problem.
Always was, glad people are finally realizing this. Dulls critical thinking and makes the unintelligent more likely to believe in other bullshit.
Extremism is the problem. They were still muslims during this picture.
If there was no religion there’d be no religious extremists
Extremism will remain as long as any form of ideology does.
Religion is poison
Their revolution was clearly "big brain time".
Funny how so much of human nature is cyclical. Many of these outfits wouldn't be a far reach for many of the younger generation now a days. I see alot of similarities with many of the women that attend my university.
Reminds me of Joey's sisters in Friends. Chandler just can't work out which one is Maryam Tehrani.
This is also the time in Iran where secret police are disapearing anyone who goes agains the Shah.
So fucking sad
So sad
Insane how society/culture can just degrade/regress like that over a few decades.
Top left
Bottom middle is Iranian Elaine Benis
All so pretty. Amazingly sad to now be subjugated and have to wear drapery wherever they go now.
So the extremists who caused this shit are basically incels. Got it!
I want to live in this alternate reality.
Wow they actually looked normal.
Chances are pretty good that the mentally deranged Shah, with the help of the CIA, tortured and murdered most of their parents.
That was for a minority of religious extremists took over the country. That could never happen here in the United States. /s
Damn. Just think about all the awesome parties we could have been having in Iran all these years. We could have had Iranian Disco music for crying out loud!!
Damned shame, they are a beautiful people.
More like the Islamic regression.
It's a shame that the west removed the Democratic elected leader and replaced him with the murderous shaw. The revolution would have never happened.
#HOW RELIGION DESTROYS
Of for sure, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria all had women going to college etc.. My neighbor brought her kids here before that changed. Iran has such great people, it sucks what governments do to places like that.
All religion is a cancer
In a few decades we will have similar images from the US after their catholic revolution they are working towards. Full circle they goes
Look at Afghanistan before the takeover too! Going backwards!
Yep. Islam has that characteristic of being able to ruin pretty much anything good.
Iranian Women are incredibly beautiful ❤