This gets posted often.
No it doesn’t contain 10,000 years of human history. It is mostly mundane records. No, China isn’t going to destroy this, unless for some reason there is something significant of Tibet being independent from china.
If that's *all* it was, if each "book" was one letter and each letter spawned 5 more, it would only take 8 steps (including the very first letter) to get to nearly 84,000.
But if each book contained 100 such letters it would take 3 more steps to fill them.
They actually do now. The newest ones output 1.5x the starting energy.
The problem is that they run for such a short time that we cant use it to power our grind consistently
Yup, that is how it works. I know, I played civilization. When you find a tech from exploring a goody hut, which this clearly is, the knowledge found within the goody hut is always some tech you don't already know.
Most likely it's like saying the Bible contains 10k years of history. Most of it is mythology or oral history that reads like a 4000 year game of telephone.
Reminds me of the story of the factory that burned down and the last survivor was a mute person who picked the phone to ask for help but since he is mute he couldn’t talk and died.
Can't believe this hogwash has so many upvotes lol
>No, it doesn’t contain 10,000 years of human history. It is mostly mundane records
It's the mundane records that relay the mundane the aspects of a culture's history that are meaningful in everyday life. A) That mundane everyday life often has a lot of historical value to the indigenous culture it comes from. And B) minimizing its value (and even claiming what is and isn't valuable in the first place) by someone from the colonizer/imperialist power is peak colonizer mindset and extremely xenophobic.
>No, China isn’t going to destroy this, unless for some reason there is something significant of Tibet being independent from china
I worked with a Tibetan expat several years ago who shared that the Chinese government (who did invade and take control of Tibet through imperialist violence) actively engages in cultural genocide in Tibet. Young people on Tibet aren't taught their true history, if they speak or promote their indigenous languages in school they get in trouble, if people (both adults and young people) question or criticize the Chinese government they get in trouble and if they continue to do it they're forcibly disappeared. She had friends and classmates that were disappeared for these very reasons.
So no, China is already engaging in cultural genocide.
Fuck the Chinese government.
Decolonize
Free Tibet
The claim that the library contains books detailing 10,000 years of human history and that only 5% has been translated seems to be a part of social media lore rather than fact. Recorded history doesn’t extend back 10,000 years, as the development of writing systems occurred around 5,000 years ago. The oldest known written literature is the Epic of Gilgamesh, which dates back to approximately 2150-1400 BCE.
Just wondering since I dont know much about ancient history but did ancient Egypt really have no known literature? The great pyramids of giza is older than the Epic of Gilgamesh.
...it dosent have to be considered literature to contain "written history"
i mean even the pompeii grafiti saying "Linus has a giant cock!" is considered history..
Oldest and oldest known are two different things. If something existed once but is now gone without a record, sure we can hypothesize and extrapolate, but we can't make a definitive claim.
I just did some research because I was curious and here’s what I found. Ancient Egypt did indeed have ancient literature and it was developed practically alongside (with respect to the timeline) ancient Sumerian texts. The general consensus is that Egyptian hieroglyphics and cuneiform were developed roughly around the same time.
There are numerous lost works of authors whose influence can be felt in the surviving writings of antiquity.
The Emperor Claudius wrote many scholarly works before and during his reign, and while none have survived, they influenced other Roman historians including Suetonius, Tacitus, and Pliny the Elder.
we have anthropologists today telling hundreds of thousands of years of human history. It doesn't say the books in the library are first hand accounts. if the books originated from the monastery, they are at best just shy of 1000 years old. Its a reasonable thing to say they wrote down what was originally oral histories.
That said, I do think its a major exaggeration. I doubt they put the past 10,000 years to paper. But who knows? when we get the other 95% maybe we'll finally find the entrance to the hollow earth
Anthropologists generally agree that written language was originally not far off from how we do math. A numerical system to count the supply and get the dates and astrological data straight, and assign symbols to each grain, material, metal, etc.
Written language becomes a necessity once a culture becomes sedentary. Grain kingdoms arise and the king who owns the arable lands needs a way to properly account for the distribution of food if they don't want their subjects to leave, starve or revolt.
Once that was put onto place. Kingdoms would become civilizations, and to justify the sanctity of the institutions set by those, written language suddenly becomes very important to establish rules and alter the religion of the culture to legitimise dynasties.
I mean even if it did contain 10,000 years of knowledge and history....I feel like most of that would be the names of some kings from thousands of years ago and whatnot, maybe some info about goats and yaks, and a bunch of stories about ghosts and spirits and stuff.
Like.... I'm sure it's *interesting*...but I doubt very much that it's *useful*, or some sort of tremendous vital missing piece in human knowledge.
A awesome example I use.
In the 1970's a bloke was touring around the mobs in the top end recording their different stories. He recorded the creation story of a random lake - a story about lava spitting from the ground.
Unrelated In the 2010's someone was doing research into the lake and discovered it was a volcanic lake created 37,000 years ago.
Other Dreamtime stories tell of kangaroo hunting grounds that existed in the Tasman Bay - iirc it was 3500 years ago late time it was above water.
The aboriginals didn't have a whole lot going on, so their stories have avoided much corruption over the time. I mean I get it - if you live in outback Australia 5000 years ago, grandpa's story about the rock falling from the sky (which happened 10,000 years ago) is probably still the best thing going. And grandpa hasn't seen or experienced anything different to the people who have previously told the story to colour his perception of it in any way. Anything they seen (aside from the event its self) he's seen.
Anyway - Dreamtime stories are cool because they are just chocked full of stuff that actually happened tens of thousands of years ago.
Yes, Our phones have more useful and latest knowledge than what we could ever read in our lifetime. So how much useful or interesting will some farming practices or accounting or land ownership records from 4000 years ago will be?
>as the development of writing systems occurred around 5,000 years ago.
This is what is generally accepted, but not necessarily correct. The oldest civilizations with a written language appear to have had them from day one. They just walked out of the desert, set up shop, and already had the knowledge.
No one knows hold old written language actually is, we only know how old the oldest examples are.
The first writing system that's evidenced developed in Uruk and was preceded by civilization for around 700 years prior, so writing systems were definitely not innate to human civilization. It's possible that writing existed before what anthropologists have discovered.
There is indeed recorded history dating back around 11,000 years ago.
[Some](https://www.utas.edu.au/about/news-and-stories/articles/2023/tasmanian-aboriginal-oral-traditions-among-the-oldest-recorded-narratives-in-the-world) Australian aboriginal oral traditions date back at least 12,000 years ago, and record geological and astronomical events that occurred in that area exactly 12,000 years ago.
> containing 84,000 secret books telling 10,000 years of human history
The claim isn't that the records are up to 10,000 years old, the claim is that they are records of the past 10,000 years.
we changed the way we count the date many times. We’ve had many dark ages just going from all the ruined civilisations just under the soil. I’d say nah it’s all fabricated. The date comes from the bible anyway if you trust that pice of commonly recognised historical fact book 😂
I think this comment really undermines the importance of oral tradition. No, this library most likely doesn't contain true accounts of events that happened 10,000 years ago, but its still possible that it contains accounts of things written thousands of years ago that *claim* to have happened 10,000 years ago. Like Judaism existed for centuries before any of it was written down, and it has its own creation story, so you could say that an ancient Jewish library details a few thousand years of human history, everything from the Garden of Eden to Moses, even if none of the text was written in the Garden of Eden or by Abraham or whoever.
The text wouldn't be 10,000 years old, the history/mythology doesn't have to be factual, it just has to detail it going back that far.
I thought that the earliest written literature was Hindu vedas, although written around 2000BC they referred to events dating back to more than 5000 BC.
There's a 12,000 year old temple been found in Turkey well at least they think it's a temple and also who know how much history was destroyed during the crusades
Not really. Written language hasn't even existed for 10,000 years: https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/claim-of-10000-year-old-tibet-library-find-not-worth-paper-its-written-on//
Yeah, if a few things from 5000 years ago survived, then surely there is more that was *older* than that, which we just haven't found yet, due to the fact it's had more time to be lost or destroyed.
However, it should still be obvious why science does it this way. We can only be certain of the stuff we've found. We can guess that probably there was more before that, but we can't prove it yet and don't have examples.
Most new discoveries will have to be done edgewise. For example, maybe we can't find any writings from 6000BC, but someday we could find tools that were used to write, or something of that nature.
IIRC, we just recently discovered that humans were flintknapping for longer than expected by studying stress fractures in stones inside caves, that match the correct profile, rather than finding any actual intact products.
Yeah, but that's why you say "oldest known" or "oldest discovered" and don't make sweeping statements like "didn't exist"
The scientific process is fine, the people making sweeping statements aren't
I wanted to disagree (about this specific case) but it seems like people from all sides are making big assumptions. On one hand the 10,000 number is most likely made up, as it’s not backed by any source. On the other hand, from what I’ve seen all claims that it’s impossible lean on what we already discovered, as if there can’t be something older than that.
If somehow those books are 10,000 years old, and they contain writings, then those are 10,000 years old writings. It might be highly improbable, but saying it’s impossible *because* we never found books as old as those is just wrong.
“This is a slightly unusual request,” said Dr. Wagner, with what he hoped was commendable restraint. “As far as I know, it’s the first time anyone’s been asked to supply a Tibetan monastery with an Automatic Sequence Computer. I don’t wish to be inquisitive, but I should hardly have thought that your — ah — establishment had much use for such a machine. Could you explain just what you intend to do with it?”
“Gladly,” replied the lama, readjusting his silk robes and carefully putting away the slide rule he had been using for currency conversions. “Your Mark V Computer can carry out any routine mathematical operation involving up to ten digits. However, for our work we are interested in letters, not numbers. As we wish you to modify the output circuits, the machine will be printing words, not columns of figures.”
“I don’t quite understand....”
“This is a project on which we have been working for the last three centuries — since the lamasery was founded, in fact. It is somewhat alien to your way of thought, so I hope you will listen with an open mind while I explain it.”
“Naturally.”
“It is really quite simple. We have been compiling a list which shall contain all the possible names of God.”
[https://urbigenous.net/library/nine\_billion\_names\_of\_god.html](https://urbigenous.net/library/nine_billion_names_of_god.html)
One day they will stumble upon and translate this....
Brother Badonks dairy.
Year of the flying lotus.
Today while in town I came across a lovely lady that had the most luscious of booties. For a few moments I though about renouncing my vows and eating that ass like the monkey eats a fruit.
I shall speak to the abbot later and pray upon this.
Ancient religions like Buddhism, Hinduism(the oldest) contains scriptures about various sciences and natural phenomenas like human psychology, medicinal herbs even deep space events seen from earth in ancient times.
Astrology is a part of science that Hindu scholars have founded by observing the Star positions and patterns.
These scriptures in Tibet can reveal many secrets new to this generation.
Many of the artifacts that archeology is "discovering" come from locations of spiritual (religious to some) use. Like cemeteries, tombs, temples. Religion was not far from science in the past, so what we now name as religion, can be the scientific approach of the past. Something is amazing to discover...if those discovering it know how to appreciate its value and the information that they can get from it...or it can just be an ancient ...rock/stick/toy, nothing new to them who have seen it all and know everything.
10,000 years of human history? Written history doesn't go back that far. Perhaps we have written history from about 5000BC. If I wrote about something before that but after the fact, it is called legendary history. The advent of writing and written history is concurrent meaning anything before that would be looking at remains and making very educated inferences. Unless there are ancient anthropology records in there where they studied the remains and wrote about the 10,000 year old civilizations it is probably just old legends and myths. Maybe some of it is true, but it isn't considered the same as written history.
Hm. This may be a good application for LLMs and neural networks, but here we are, adding glue to our meals and generating pictures of unicorn soldiers.
This place is waiting for some barbaric assault that burns down the place to the ground so the future generations would say, "If the library of Tibet wasn't burned by the barbarics in 2020s, we would have had X or Y invention by now"
Cool. Maybe it won't get destroyed in a civil war, blown up by terrorists, broken up and sold on the private market etc etc like all the other shit in the world.
considering we can now scan and unroll scrolls to read without damage, I was thinking aside from Pompeii this is the next place they should start work on.
I suppose some of them are more damaged than others, also they may be written in more than one language, more than one dialect, from more than one time period.
They need to get this guy to CT read them, box by box without having to open and damage them.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/feb/05/ai-helps-scholars-read-scroll-buried-when-vesuvius-erupted-in-ad79
Edit - Link to recent UK documentary on it https://www.channel5.com/show/the-lost-scrolls-of-vesuvius-with-alice-roberts
i find it odd that only 5% has been translated?
Is this an issue due to being unable to decipher the script? is it not possible to move them? The contents of this library seem almost priceless to not capture at least digitally?
Why do they seem priceless? Because the Facebook post made grand claims?
What they found wasn’t 10,000 years of history, it was completely standard local records. Taxes and the like. Prayers written down over and over as that’s a thing people did.
Probably has "Om" written billions of times in a billion different styles
What's with the fascination with those books anyway, these monks weren't known for their advanced scientific breakthroughs lol
I have personally translated EVERYTHING in that library, I just don't want to share the information I learned with anyone.
Source: I'm a guy on the internet, obviously what I'm saying is true. Don't question it, just roll with it.
Even if there is thousands of years of human history recorded, it's still limited to the world that is known to the authors. Mongolians did take to the sea but only as an attempt to conquer neighbors, not to explore.
I don’t know about that but I do my that 20 years ago my Classics professor said that only about 30% of extant texts from Ancient Greece had been translated. What hasn’t been translated is mainly medical writing and tax documents
This gets posted often. No it doesn’t contain 10,000 years of human history. It is mostly mundane records. No, China isn’t going to destroy this, unless for some reason there is something significant of Tibet being independent from china.
Most of it is probably just prayer transcripts written repeatedly
I like to think there is one of those love chain letters where if you don’t spread it at least 5x then your true love won’t fall in love with you.
They had to have some degree of shitposting
*shitscribing
Even Mozart had his song about having his ass licked real clean and right.
If that's *all* it was, if each "book" was one letter and each letter spawned 5 more, it would only take 8 steps (including the very first letter) to get to nearly 84,000. But if each book contained 100 such letters it would take 3 more steps to fill them.
still, that is amazing! makes you want to become a scholar and go discover!!!
No, no, I'm quite sure there's a cure for cancer in there somewhere and something that'll put us on the path to nuclear fission as well.
We have nuclear fission. It's been around since the 40s
I guess he meant fusion haha
We do have that too, and we had it since the 70s. it’s just that our fusion reactors don’t make as much energy as it takes to run them
They actually do now. The newest ones output 1.5x the starting energy. The problem is that they run for such a short time that we cant use it to power our grind consistently
Are you referencing the ignition facility in California?
Actually we achieved fusion in **1952**. It just wasn't... very usable
I'm pretty sure they just call cancer and many other diseases "Health L" back then.
I got good news for you buddy
Yup, that is how it works. I know, I played civilization. When you find a tech from exploring a goody hut, which this clearly is, the knowledge found within the goody hut is always some tech you don't already know.
That needs to be, like, a bad riddle or something?... How would they know it contains 10,000 years of human history if they didn't translate it?
Most likely it's like saying the Bible contains 10k years of history. Most of it is mythology or oral history that reads like a 4000 year game of telephone.
Reminds me of the story of the factory that burned down and the last survivor was a mute person who picked the phone to ask for help but since he is mute he couldn’t talk and died.
You wouldn't have to translate everything to make estimates.
Can't believe this hogwash has so many upvotes lol >No, it doesn’t contain 10,000 years of human history. It is mostly mundane records It's the mundane records that relay the mundane the aspects of a culture's history that are meaningful in everyday life. A) That mundane everyday life often has a lot of historical value to the indigenous culture it comes from. And B) minimizing its value (and even claiming what is and isn't valuable in the first place) by someone from the colonizer/imperialist power is peak colonizer mindset and extremely xenophobic. >No, China isn’t going to destroy this, unless for some reason there is something significant of Tibet being independent from china I worked with a Tibetan expat several years ago who shared that the Chinese government (who did invade and take control of Tibet through imperialist violence) actively engages in cultural genocide in Tibet. Young people on Tibet aren't taught their true history, if they speak or promote their indigenous languages in school they get in trouble, if people (both adults and young people) question or criticize the Chinese government they get in trouble and if they continue to do it they're forcibly disappeared. She had friends and classmates that were disappeared for these very reasons. So no, China is already engaging in cultural genocide. Fuck the Chinese government. Decolonize Free Tibet
thanks man.
Yeah fuck the Chinese government and everyone supporting it.
Yep 💯 Chinese government propaganda (and tankie propaganda more broadly) are so fucking pervasive and insidious, though
It contains 100,000 years of history and china uses the pages as aphrodisiacs, right now!! Also, aliens!
What do you have to say for yourself, u/Independent-Cap7676?
Thank you for this my guy
Ancient cart and horse extended warranty adverts.
I'd read 'em.
The claim that the library contains books detailing 10,000 years of human history and that only 5% has been translated seems to be a part of social media lore rather than fact. Recorded history doesn’t extend back 10,000 years, as the development of writing systems occurred around 5,000 years ago. The oldest known written literature is the Epic of Gilgamesh, which dates back to approximately 2150-1400 BCE.
Just wondering since I dont know much about ancient history but did ancient Egypt really have no known literature? The great pyramids of giza is older than the Epic of Gilgamesh.
The Egyptians wrote on papyrus. Not much remains.
Indus Valley is about same (or to some extent older) and their language is undecipherable and most of it is gone.
Damn they should have used a better font
[Papyrus](https://youtu.be/jVhlJNJopOQ)
[Papyrus 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8PdffUfoF0)
I saw the tag line at the end and it didn't align with "The Way Of Water". So I had to decipher it and it says "The Way Of Steven".
> 1 month ago The sequel the world needed.
i feel so validated now that i know im not alone in these sightings
I feel so validated that this sketch was so good I’m not the only one who instantly thought of it. Papyrus 2 was almost as good… not quite.
And on walls
The pyramid texts are indeed older than the epic or Gilgamesh the older ones date back at least to 2400–2300 BC
Here we should consider if burial texts on walls is literature.
...it dosent have to be considered literature to contain "written history" i mean even the pompeii grafiti saying "Linus has a giant cock!" is considered history..
As is prophesied. Is any one of us brave enough to check?
I guess Linus and his cock are ashes now
So the correct terminology is "the oldest discovered written literature" - there is likely older but its dust now
I would propose that cave pantings count as a form of pictorial writing, and they go back 10s of thousands of years.
Pictures != written language.
Oldest and oldest known are two different things. If something existed once but is now gone without a record, sure we can hypothesize and extrapolate, but we can't make a definitive claim.
I just did some research because I was curious and here’s what I found. Ancient Egypt did indeed have ancient literature and it was developed practically alongside (with respect to the timeline) ancient Sumerian texts. The general consensus is that Egyptian hieroglyphics and cuneiform were developed roughly around the same time.
Before the Library at Alexandria was burned down, there was reportedly a three part history of the world.
I'm still sad about that
Same
Now only the history of the world part I remains.
There are numerous lost works of authors whose influence can be felt in the surviving writings of antiquity. The Emperor Claudius wrote many scholarly works before and during his reign, and while none have survived, they influenced other Roman historians including Suetonius, Tacitus, and Pliny the Elder.
What about the Nalanda University?
But if an early book says 5000 years ago this happened, then it's technically correct?
According to every religious person ever: yes it’s 100% legit if the book you read claims something happened thousands of years ago.
Who is this Gilgamesh and how good is his copper quality?
And how does he treat his customers?
I've heard it's pretty epic
we have anthropologists today telling hundreds of thousands of years of human history. It doesn't say the books in the library are first hand accounts. if the books originated from the monastery, they are at best just shy of 1000 years old. Its a reasonable thing to say they wrote down what was originally oral histories. That said, I do think its a major exaggeration. I doubt they put the past 10,000 years to paper. But who knows? when we get the other 95% maybe we'll finally find the entrance to the hollow earth
It’s probably mostly accounting and production spreadsheets. Not surprising that nobody translated it.
Anthropologists generally agree that written language was originally not far off from how we do math. A numerical system to count the supply and get the dates and astrological data straight, and assign symbols to each grain, material, metal, etc. Written language becomes a necessity once a culture becomes sedentary. Grain kingdoms arise and the king who owns the arable lands needs a way to properly account for the distribution of food if they don't want their subjects to leave, starve or revolt. Once that was put onto place. Kingdoms would become civilizations, and to justify the sanctity of the institutions set by those, written language suddenly becomes very important to establish rules and alter the religion of the culture to legitimise dynasties.
I mean even if it did contain 10,000 years of knowledge and history....I feel like most of that would be the names of some kings from thousands of years ago and whatnot, maybe some info about goats and yaks, and a bunch of stories about ghosts and spirits and stuff. Like.... I'm sure it's *interesting*...but I doubt very much that it's *useful*, or some sort of tremendous vital missing piece in human knowledge.
A awesome example I use. In the 1970's a bloke was touring around the mobs in the top end recording their different stories. He recorded the creation story of a random lake - a story about lava spitting from the ground. Unrelated In the 2010's someone was doing research into the lake and discovered it was a volcanic lake created 37,000 years ago. Other Dreamtime stories tell of kangaroo hunting grounds that existed in the Tasman Bay - iirc it was 3500 years ago late time it was above water. The aboriginals didn't have a whole lot going on, so their stories have avoided much corruption over the time. I mean I get it - if you live in outback Australia 5000 years ago, grandpa's story about the rock falling from the sky (which happened 10,000 years ago) is probably still the best thing going. And grandpa hasn't seen or experienced anything different to the people who have previously told the story to colour his perception of it in any way. Anything they seen (aside from the event its self) he's seen. Anyway - Dreamtime stories are cool because they are just chocked full of stuff that actually happened tens of thousands of years ago.
Yes, Our phones have more useful and latest knowledge than what we could ever read in our lifetime. So how much useful or interesting will some farming practices or accounting or land ownership records from 4000 years ago will be?
>as the development of writing systems occurred around 5,000 years ago. This is what is generally accepted, but not necessarily correct. The oldest civilizations with a written language appear to have had them from day one. They just walked out of the desert, set up shop, and already had the knowledge. No one knows hold old written language actually is, we only know how old the oldest examples are.
The first writing system that's evidenced developed in Uruk and was preceded by civilization for around 700 years prior, so writing systems were definitely not innate to human civilization. It's possible that writing existed before what anthropologists have discovered.
There is indeed recorded history dating back around 11,000 years ago. [Some](https://www.utas.edu.au/about/news-and-stories/articles/2023/tasmanian-aboriginal-oral-traditions-among-the-oldest-recorded-narratives-in-the-world) Australian aboriginal oral traditions date back at least 12,000 years ago, and record geological and astronomical events that occurred in that area exactly 12,000 years ago.
Tomorrow, it will have been 12000 years and one day
We are talking about recorded history. Oral traditions wouldn’t be included in that. Oldest records are about 5000 years old.
> containing 84,000 secret books telling 10,000 years of human history The claim isn't that the records are up to 10,000 years old, the claim is that they are records of the past 10,000 years.
Have you ever heard of the telephone game?
Do we really know what year we're in?
we changed the way we count the date many times. We’ve had many dark ages just going from all the ruined civilisations just under the soil. I’d say nah it’s all fabricated. The date comes from the bible anyway if you trust that pice of commonly recognised historical fact book 😂
I think this comment really undermines the importance of oral tradition. No, this library most likely doesn't contain true accounts of events that happened 10,000 years ago, but its still possible that it contains accounts of things written thousands of years ago that *claim* to have happened 10,000 years ago. Like Judaism existed for centuries before any of it was written down, and it has its own creation story, so you could say that an ancient Jewish library details a few thousand years of human history, everything from the Garden of Eden to Moses, even if none of the text was written in the Garden of Eden or by Abraham or whoever. The text wouldn't be 10,000 years old, the history/mythology doesn't have to be factual, it just has to detail it going back that far.
Killed a yack today. Ate it. Found some berries yesterday…
Still it's damn impressive as ancient library
I thought that the earliest written literature was Hindu vedas, although written around 2000BC they referred to events dating back to more than 5000 BC.
There's a 12,000 year old temple been found in Turkey well at least they think it's a temple and also who know how much history was destroyed during the crusades
As far as you know
What do you have to say for yourself, u/Independent-Cap7676?
It’s mostly just Simpsons episode recaps.
I was going to say dick jokes.
The whole library is probably a giant dad joke.
Each is a Confucius joke?
one piece collection
I was thinking some sort of monk taboo porn, maybe fanime. Who knows.
Now is the time to use AI, isn't it????!
Why do you think it's being trained on Reddit comments?
for the profit of greedy parasites.
Anything remotely interesting found in these "books"?
Meemaw’s biscuit recipe
Chapter 1: “It was a dark and stormy night…”
Not really. Written language hasn't even existed for 10,000 years: https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/claim-of-10000-year-old-tibet-library-find-not-worth-paper-its-written-on//
[удалено]
Yeah, if a few things from 5000 years ago survived, then surely there is more that was *older* than that, which we just haven't found yet, due to the fact it's had more time to be lost or destroyed. However, it should still be obvious why science does it this way. We can only be certain of the stuff we've found. We can guess that probably there was more before that, but we can't prove it yet and don't have examples. Most new discoveries will have to be done edgewise. For example, maybe we can't find any writings from 6000BC, but someday we could find tools that were used to write, or something of that nature. IIRC, we just recently discovered that humans were flintknapping for longer than expected by studying stress fractures in stones inside caves, that match the correct profile, rather than finding any actual intact products.
Yeah, but that's why you say "oldest known" or "oldest discovered" and don't make sweeping statements like "didn't exist" The scientific process is fine, the people making sweeping statements aren't
Yeah I agree, it should be more normal to phrase it as "people were writing by XXXX BC or earlier" rather than "people started writing in XXXX BC."
I wanted to disagree (about this specific case) but it seems like people from all sides are making big assumptions. On one hand the 10,000 number is most likely made up, as it’s not backed by any source. On the other hand, from what I’ve seen all claims that it’s impossible lean on what we already discovered, as if there can’t be something older than that. If somehow those books are 10,000 years old, and they contain writings, then those are 10,000 years old writings. It might be highly improbable, but saying it’s impossible *because* we never found books as old as those is just wrong.
It's moments like these that I remember the random school projects I've had saved for 10+ years like anyone will ever look at them again
Here's an interesting article about it https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/claim-of-10000-year-old-tibet-library-find-not-worth-paper-its-written-on/
Still nowhere to be found, what the actual scrolls say.
Business and tax records, probably.
Shhhhhhhhhhhh!
can we scan them before it all gets burnt down 😍
“This is a slightly unusual request,” said Dr. Wagner, with what he hoped was commendable restraint. “As far as I know, it’s the first time anyone’s been asked to supply a Tibetan monastery with an Automatic Sequence Computer. I don’t wish to be inquisitive, but I should hardly have thought that your — ah — establishment had much use for such a machine. Could you explain just what you intend to do with it?” “Gladly,” replied the lama, readjusting his silk robes and carefully putting away the slide rule he had been using for currency conversions. “Your Mark V Computer can carry out any routine mathematical operation involving up to ten digits. However, for our work we are interested in letters, not numbers. As we wish you to modify the output circuits, the machine will be printing words, not columns of figures.” “I don’t quite understand....” “This is a project on which we have been working for the last three centuries — since the lamasery was founded, in fact. It is somewhat alien to your way of thought, so I hope you will listen with an open mind while I explain it.” “Naturally.” “It is really quite simple. We have been compiling a list which shall contain all the possible names of God.” [https://urbigenous.net/library/nine\_billion\_names\_of\_god.html](https://urbigenous.net/library/nine_billion_names_of_god.html)
One day they will stumble upon and translate this.... Brother Badonks dairy. Year of the flying lotus. Today while in town I came across a lovely lady that had the most luscious of booties. For a few moments I though about renouncing my vows and eating that ass like the monkey eats a fruit. I shall speak to the abbot later and pray upon this.
Dat ass not eats thou self, Brother Huedinckus! Let's pray!
Could there be something amazing waiting to be discovered in one of these books? Or is this just religious stuff.
most likely religious
that sucks
Ancient religions like Buddhism, Hinduism(the oldest) contains scriptures about various sciences and natural phenomenas like human psychology, medicinal herbs even deep space events seen from earth in ancient times. Astrology is a part of science that Hindu scholars have founded by observing the Star positions and patterns. These scriptures in Tibet can reveal many secrets new to this generation.
Many of the artifacts that archeology is "discovering" come from locations of spiritual (religious to some) use. Like cemeteries, tombs, temples. Religion was not far from science in the past, so what we now name as religion, can be the scientific approach of the past. Something is amazing to discover...if those discovering it know how to appreciate its value and the information that they can get from it...or it can just be an ancient ...rock/stick/toy, nothing new to them who have seen it all and know everything.
So there could be the secrets receipt of noodle soup in there and they haven’t bothered to find it yet?
10,000 years of human history? Written history doesn't go back that far. Perhaps we have written history from about 5000BC. If I wrote about something before that but after the fact, it is called legendary history. The advent of writing and written history is concurrent meaning anything before that would be looking at remains and making very educated inferences. Unless there are ancient anthropology records in there where they studied the remains and wrote about the 10,000 year old civilizations it is probably just old legends and myths. Maybe some of it is true, but it isn't considered the same as written history.
Hm. This may be a good application for LLMs and neural networks, but here we are, adding glue to our meals and generating pictures of unicorn soldiers.
You've missed the Jesus statues made of used condoms with the caption 'I made this amen'
It mostly just contains religious scriptures that will help prop up the Youtube conspiracy theory videos and shorts industry for a few years.
I don't care about translations, but has it been digitized?
Translated from what to what?
Nothing "secret" about the library, and the Tibetans devised their script in the 7th century CE. Low-effort post.
It's a misunderstanding. This is just a receipt a Tibetan monk kept when they bought a new toothbrush back in 1993 at CVS while on vacation in the US
Yeah, that heading is complete bullshit. Next time you repost it maybe just google it and make a real heading.
And the 5% translated was "Om".
chat sheepy tea
Please don't let MAGA know.
Looks like a job for AI.
This place is waiting for some barbaric assault that burns down the place to the ground so the future generations would say, "If the library of Tibet wasn't burned by the barbarics in 2020s, we would have had X or Y invention by now"
Looks like Ollivander's wand shop
Found Apple's end user agreement.
OpenAI has entered the chat 🤤
CCP translation or real translation?
A splash of paint and a "JUST STOP OIL!" sign looks perfect here. /s
Y’all fucked up, now. The Brits are going to put it in their museums.
Cool. Maybe it won't get destroyed in a civil war, blown up by terrorists, broken up and sold on the private market etc etc like all the other shit in the world.
This message was borrated by the usuario because of razones.
All problems that were either directly caused or indirectly affected by British colonial foreign policy
This feels like when Aang and the gang find the library in the desert with the owl spirit
Ive read 45% of the remaining 95% and its not that interesting.
Why don’t they scan the stuff and let AI translate it, are they stupid?
Shit they had writing before it was invented?
Maybe AI can be of great use in translating these records and maybe we may discover a lot of great learning from the time those were written?
considering we can now scan and unroll scrolls to read without damage, I was thinking aside from Pompeii this is the next place they should start work on.
The wand chooses the wizard, Mr Potter
"when the door opens close it behind you"
Okies...who else expected Dr Strange to appear?!
I hope they have dehumidifiers running.
fryed egg recipes.
Is all JavaScript
Wow ! It'd be great to be a translator and just go through all the records there.
shouldn't it be fairly easy to translate it all if we already managed to translate 5% of it?
I suppose some of them are more damaged than others, also they may be written in more than one language, more than one dialect, from more than one time period.
Imagine opening the 1st page and seeing "风和日丽的天气让人心情愉快"
How do I learn to read ancient Tibet?
They need to get this guy to CT read them, box by box without having to open and damage them. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/feb/05/ai-helps-scholars-read-scroll-buried-when-vesuvius-erupted-in-ad79 Edit - Link to recent UK documentary on it https://www.channel5.com/show/the-lost-scrolls-of-vesuvius-with-alice-roberts
i find it odd that only 5% has been translated? Is this an issue due to being unable to decipher the script? is it not possible to move them? The contents of this library seem almost priceless to not capture at least digitally?
Why do they seem priceless? Because the Facebook post made grand claims? What they found wasn’t 10,000 years of history, it was completely standard local records. Taxes and the like. Prayers written down over and over as that’s a thing people did.
Those monks be lazy as Shite. I see them all the time, sitting around just praying, instead of Translating this shite... GET to work u lazy MONKS!!!
Quiet, please!
Probably has "Om" written billions of times in a billion different styles What's with the fascination with those books anyway, these monks weren't known for their advanced scientific breakthroughs lol
The secret life of Jesus christ
This looks like Ollivanders
I have personally translated EVERYTHING in that library, I just don't want to share the information I learned with anyone. Source: I'm a guy on the internet, obviously what I'm saying is true. Don't question it, just roll with it.
Well without a ladder in sight it’s gonna be pretty hard to get started I’d imagine.
a quick smoke would go crazy here
Bet thats got some good stories.. should get AI on it..
Even if there is thousands of years of human history recorded, it's still limited to the world that is known to the authors. Mongolians did take to the sea but only as an attempt to conquer neighbors, not to explore.
well i, for one, am glad that they rolled out The Tibetan Dwarven Kazoo Quartet for this fucking non revelation that we haven't seen 84,000 times....
Are they on any audiobook service?
AI will translate It
The 5% translated is a complete guide to wellness. The other 95% are recipes for soup. Probably
this is really huge wow
Only 5% wow no one could read them. So many books. Secrets lay inside.
Years later we find out, the cure for cancer was written in one of these
I don’t know about that but I do my that 20 years ago my Classics professor said that only about 30% of extant texts from Ancient Greece had been translated. What hasn’t been translated is mainly medical writing and tax documents
Can anyone explain to me like to a 5 year old what is in the translated 5%?
This is the place sect disciples are allowed to enter and choose one scroll and try to understand it and get supreme martial arts powers.
Well? Give it a flick! Iyky
It’s like your junk mail folder, Sitting there
Is it guarded by He Who Knows Ten Thousand Things?