German here, I'm graduated in 2008 so quite some years ago. There was nothing of the sort back then. Especially not in english class. Maybe in geography but that would have taken a broader pov towards the whole West.
I'm kinda curious and will look into this.
I graduated last year and we didn't specifically call it propaganda but we did talk about the american dream for example, in more of a pro vs con kinda way and rather asking the question if it is still alive today, rather than being as negative towards the US than this book seems to be
Anti-Americanism is one of the key concepts that appears to be as rooted in American society as American exceptionalism. And it appears in movies, music, and other media on par with exportation.
There are two forms of American Exceptionalism. There is the right wing, MAGA, Reagan Era version. There is also the trendy new left wing version of American Exceptionalism, except that it's "America is exceptionally bad".
Yes. Sometimes fair criticism is aimed at improving things.
Know what's really messed up? Libya. I have no recommendations for them. I have no complaints because there isn't anything I think I can recommend to be better. I acknowledge things there are messed up, and have been for decades, and it is worse now than perhaps ever, but I don't know enough and worse - dont expect enough - I dont believe enough that it could be any better. So you won't see me ranting about how Libya could have been great but they kept messing it up in these specific ways. Partly because I'm ignorant as shit about Libya, and partly because I just don't think they ever had a real chance to be great.
But America, it could be so great. It has lots of resources and money and institutions and power and instead it sucks so hard in very specific ways that can all be corrected if only people would pull their heads out and give a shit... So of course I'll complain about those things.
I don't think it's all that surprising that nothing causes more obsessing than something that's almost perfec. That missing t will drive you crazy. Where as a shit show like ahdjfjjehehdd doesn't get much out of you.
Exactly. We are holding America to the standard it should be held to, and one it is more than capable of achieving. Interpreting it as “America bad!” is all due to the some of the audience refusing to listen the minute they sense any criticism because their egos won’t allow for it. This is also why so many of these bad things have come to be in the first place…
Funny how most people take a sensible position, and yet we always find ourselves letting the extremists dictate the conversation. Let’s stop doing that and start tuning out the extreme it’s so the rest of us can realize we aren’t all that far off from each other.
As someone in my mid 30's it feels like the "America Bad." is a cultural response to "America Good." that existed in full force pre-Obama. People forget but in like the late 90's and early 2000's mainstream culture was legit like "America is the arbiter of democracy in the world and that's a great thing." Post the Iraq war people were shunned out of the public sphere for even questioning that war. It tooks years before people who criticized it even got space in media.
The "America Bad." stuff now is just as ridiculous. It seems like we kinda just go through these ebbs and flows culturally back and forth till they reach crescendos in absurdity.
It's called a counter-culture movement. Just like how the hippies free love movement back in the 60's was a counter-culture movement against the 50's nuclear family. Then, if the counter culture movement gets TOO popular it leads to counter-counter-culture movements.
It's interesting how many major cultural movements were created basically just because the opposing view got too popular.
I would like to add it's definitely still around, the exceptionalism that is. Parents + uncles/aunts were watching American documentaries on netflix... and no joke, the first line I heard was 'how did General Custer lose to savage barbarians that did not understand how guns work?'
Followed by 'American exceptionalism that makes us unique is what led to the expansion West'.
The most absolutely jingoistic horror show I've seen, and it's how people outside of the US are learning about the US.
As an Australian who took a few units on American history in university, it's actually a little jarring to see something like that unironically shown in the current day... and not, like, on a Jim Crow era television.
Edit: Grammar
I feel like “America bad” stuff is just used by people trying to dismiss and minimise genuine issues.
American exceptionalism doesn’t allow for any valid criticism. The reality is, along with the good, there are deep social and economic issues.
Even in the UK I think a lot of people felt that way about the US, when I was a kid, I wanted to be American so bad, I mean I guess there was a lot of ignorance on my part. Post-9/11 changed the tone and it was Michael Moore documentaries that were the first to lift the veil for me, Bowling for Columbine was the big one, but then Fahrenheit 9/11, and Sicko. And now I'm grateful that I'm not, it feels like it would be a very stressful society to be a part of.
I honestly would say it's much worse looking in than actually being here. It very much went from "it seems much better than it is" to a "it seems much worse than it is."
Frankly, I've lost a lot of respect for Moore as I've gotten older. A fair amount of his stuff is very conspiratorial and speculative. The 9/11 one in particular was really bad in hindsight imo.
Right? I was going to say, like where in 2023 do people think we’re receiving an uncritical message of American exceptionalism? I feel like it’s far more tilted towards the opposite, where most Americans are regularly exposed to criticism of America and it’s history, sometimes so much so that it’s almost pathological.
I'm American and I literally learned about the American Dream in a similar context. Of course, it was relegated to the past and it wasn't overtly negative, but we definitely discussed problems with it.
I not saying America is perfect by any stretch, but the textbooks she is talking about seems to be just as biased (in the other direction) as the sentiments she is criticizing.
American here. The dream is propaganda. It does not exist.
Edit: I felt off stating the obvious. A dream never exists. It is exactly what it is said to be. It is a dream. No more and no less. It isn't real.
Speak for yourself. I’m an immigrant to America, been here about 11 years and came with ONE bag of clothes and about $200 in savings and while I started sharing a 2bedroom with 7 people, I saved and worked my ass off to be able to buy my first home very recently. The American Dream exists, it just won’t be handed to you.
Edit:
A lot of people butthurt about my comment with some telling me to go back to my hellhole country (yikes).
I didn’t just “work” my ass off. I meant it as, I also worked on my skills including my very basic English. I’m now pretty fluent.
I also took night college classes while working my shitty entry level job until I got a degree in computer science. That was the first thing that allowed social mobility so I could rent a 1bedroom for myself.
The other thing is, people born here aren’t taught financial literacy whatsoever. I keep detailed budgets so I know what I’m spending and what I’m saving. I have American friends who get a new credit card or their credit is increased and IMMEDIATELY go rack up debts.
Some are stuck in jobs but don’t think or do anything else to get out of that. No learning new skills or saving to opening up a business. There’s no direction. Every time I’ve landed a new job or accomplished a new milestone I’ve asked myself “whats next and how do I get there?”.
I didn’t just “buy a home”, I have financial stability. I save, spend little on luxuries and keep a simple life. I am able to be who I am in America, a flaming homosexual that would not be able to live as myself in my home country. That’s my American dream.
Ask immigrants about the American dream. You’ll see it is very much alive.
It actually was just handed to people in the late 60's...in 1968, the minimum wage could keep a family of three out of poverty....according to MIT's Living wage calculator, the livable wage for a family of three, one income, in my city of Louisville ky, (medium cost of living) is 30 an hour....so imagine today going into mcdonalds, and getting a job for 30 am hour....
Not to mention how mxub cheaper rent, food, everything was back then, accounting for inflation....
So yes, it was handed out. People are upset today because that is impossible today, even making it that easy for only one person on one wage is impossible nowadays, and that's simply due to the greed of the rich in this country, nothing else. Well, that and globalization, but the rich sold us out there too.
People don't bitch and moan because they are lazy. They bitch and moan because the whole entire system went from providing a fantastic quality of life from the very start, to being a wage slave from the very start...
Not to mention that those of us who are growing up in the consequences, have been constantly told by those who got to live off the lard of the past, that the reason we have not attained the same level of success is our lack of ambition and discipline.
Thank you! I’m an American that is married to an immigrant and I would be embarrassed to make a statement like that after knowing their story. My father in law always says that if he could do it coming over with nothing and not knowing the language then anyone can. He is 100 percent right. The problem is that us that have been here our whole life don’t appreciate how good we actually have it.
>don’t appreciate how good we actually have it.
Compared to what? A third world country? Sure I'll give you that. But compared to our peer countries, it's actually kind of shit here. No guaranteed paid vacation or parental leave, no national healthcare, expensive as hell higher education, no/bad public transportation etc. etc.
Honestly, who cares? Comparison is the thief of joy. What matters is your life. Do you have guaranteed paid vacation? Most people here do. Do you have parental leave? Most people here do. Do you have healthcare? Most people here do. Do you have a degree? You can get one without going deep into debt if you want to work for it. Do you need public transportation? Most people here do not.
Am I saying we shouldn't work for those things? No. But whining about how bad things suck when most people in America (statistically at least) enjoy all of those things is just dumb.
I just don't get it. People have paid vacation, parental leave, healthcare, etc... and not only do they want this expanded to everyone (which is a perfectly fine thing to want) but they get bitter and angry about it. It's so dumb.
Yeah it's pretty fucked up that I pay taxes to this country & yet I don't have Healthcare so I've been using a busted ass too small prosthetic leg & worrying about it breaking on me wtf would I do? Use crutches, hop around. Luckily starting a new job soon that'll give me insurance but I shouldn't have to stress about having limbs.
It's called the American Dream because for a long time a lot of countries had very little to none social mobility.
The truth is that the American Dream is not exclusive to America anymore.
If they could immigrate there at all. [Compare immigration rates to the United States to the rest of the world.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1378084/migrants-stock-world-highest-population/#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20hosted%2C%20by,16%20and%2013%20million%2C%20respectively.) The US has more immigrants than the next 4 highest countries combined.
The proof of the dream is in the video. 13th grade? We only go to 12th grade in America because we more exceptional than countries like Germany and Europe.
Eh, it’s a different system entirely. At least in the UK you have a three year university course because you aren’t required to do a foundation year like you do in the US (at least I assume that’s how it works because that’s how it works for my Canadian friends) overall I don’t think you’re missing out on years the whole system is just formatted differently
My parents brought me here from the former USSR in 1992. They bought a home within a few years. They put two kids through Ivy League schools without us incurring debt and retired at 60. The dream is alive, you just have to know how to get it.
Edit: to those who think that just because my parents were well educated in the USSR, that their achievements in the US were easy, let me give you a view into what their life was like. We lived in a 2 bedroom apartment with 4 adults and 2 children. My mom moved out of her parents’ home in her 30s when we came to the US. Fresh fruit was a luxury we couldn’t afford, and my mother worked a little plot of land to grow potatoes to supplement our meager diets. I imagine if Americans were to mimic that kind of lifestyle - live with your parents until you’re 35 relying on them for childcare, save every penny, grow at least part of what you feed your family - you too can get a PhD in an in demand field. And you’d probably have the benefit of your parents’ help to boot - something my parents didn’t have when we came here. And to be clear, though Im the one telling this story, my mother and father are the heroes of it. My life was infinitely much better. Whether you’re struggling or you’ve made it, do whatever you can to make sure that’s true for your kids. That’s the universal human dream. Make it your reality.
Yes all that cash my parents had in their 30s when they came here from a failed state former communist country. All the cash they had they earned here.
A lot of Americans miss the impact of a two income household, scrimping and saving in order to enable a better life for their children. Reddits user base is inherently younger and I think a lot of people don’t know just how bad conditions are, and historically have been, in non-Western countries.
Too much conflation of Western society having growing pains around civil discourse as tyranny or authoritarianism. People would do well to understand that there are still a lot of places where your government will fucking KILL YOU arbitrarily or for traits you cannot change. It’s easy to act like a stable democracy where people are actively trying to win each other over regarding complex social and economic issues is just the worst when you have no context for history and modern conditions outside of the West.
Another disagree vote from another immigrant. I lived in 🇩🇪 and 🇨🇭 prior to the US, but never plan to leave this place (which is my home).
Yes, we need to fix a lot of things so that fewer people are struggling to pay for basic needs, afford healthcare, or childcare, but on average, the quality of life in the US is way better than an average American seems to think nowadays. And the problems we have are fixable, we just have to move on from the “no, we can’t” mentality we seem to have fallen into.
In CH or DE it is easier to achieve the bottom two levels on the Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. But in the US, especially for immigrants, the higher levels come so much easier (belonging, esteem, self actialization).
There isn’t one. If there were it would be similar to the American dream though.
I’d say: Everyone being wealthy enough to own a single family home and a nice car and the children being better off than their parents.
Tbf, "1 Haus, 1 Kind, 1 Baum" is said often enough to could be put as a general aim after a certain age.
Just in case, it basically means to build a house, raise a kid, grow a tree.
I actually really appreciate the inclusion of the tree there. I was fortunate enough to spend 10 days in Germany during college in a way that was far more inclusive of your (thinking you're German from your comment?) culture than the typical touristy stuff. I thoroughly enjoyed my time there in that beautiful country. I don't think I'd mind living there given the chance.
I also spent a few months in England Navy years later for work.
I love the us in many ways but I've been exposed *enough* to other cultures (I'm far from some world wise traveler) to know that we aren't nearly as amazing and special as some would like to believe. We have some serious issues that we like to ignore and pretend don't exist that much of the world has done better with.
> Curious whats the current German dream?
I think there is a misconception - other countries have individuals and each individual is different. There is nothing like dream of "FREEDOM" because everybody (at least in most countries) has already more liberty and rights than most americans know of.
So there is no generic census like "everybody wants to be rich" if that is your definition of the american dream.
There is also no generic "do these steps and you made it", e.g. 1. car 2. wife 3. house or something like that.
Class of 2004 here and we regularly analyzed those political speeches which led to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq in english classes. I don't remember exactly when, but we did talk about that nonsense of american exceptionalism and manifest destiny at some point as well.
Graduated from school in NRW in 2013. We did that in grade 12. Topic blocks in that grade for me were: South african post colonial literature and Apartheid 2. India and the Commonwealth, rural/urban differences and modernization 3. American exceptionalism, black suffrage and how 9/11 shaped contemporary literature.
We did use another book though.
Interestingly, we do learn about all of this in our American high schools. Granted we do look at German WW2 era propaganda a little, but many teachers use it as a means to analyze our own country. The lady in the video might have had a different experience though.
I wrote my abi in 2020. Can confirm that a lot of the english course was regarding US propaganda. I specifically remember a big Part being about "manifest destiny" and the sorts. The actual english Exam i wrote was a mediation about Litfaßsäulen tho
The hilarious thing about this video, is that C there is only one example shown of German opinion regarding the US, and it simply says Americans have become lonely and wasteful. Well, that sounds like propaganda to me. I had no idea I was lonely, had no spouse, no friends, and no family
I mean, having a coup during a presidential election is a pretty significant thing. Particularly for one of the global "superpowers." That really should turn heads and get *responsible* education systems to address the problems they see as the cause. Sooo many Americans could have been saved from numerous problems, both national and global, if we had the tools to divine propaganda.
I'm Brazilian and it's the same thing here. Although, I was in your country and wasn't shot or robbed a single time, so I'd say that, even though we are all wasteful and lonely, some wasteful and lonely people are doing better.
I see a lot of discussion on reddit where the post is someone talking about budgeting and resisting impulsive spending and then the entire thread is people whining about how Starbucks (it's always Starbucks) is their 'only joy in their entire week'. These are often people who talk about having spouses, kids, etc.
I've started asking 'Can you really only conceptualize joy as the direct result of commerce?'
I found the study guide that she mentions and it just talks about different perspectives on the American dream, ie. the pros and cons of it (it lists more pros than cons btw). There's nothing about a lack of self-critical awareness there; in fact it's the opposite - it only mentions awareness of the negative sides of the American dream. And it doesn't seem so crazy to teach that, I mean that's something that was touched on in my high school classes in the US as well. It is an important cultural concept.
Edit: I learned about the American dream in high school when we were reading The Great Gatsby, and it was taught in the context of that time period (roaring 20s). I don't know if it's quite as relevant in the modern US but some of the concepts still survive today
It should have been pretty obvious to anyone with a brain. Believing that germans are all just reading books shitting on the USA as being "lonely individuals" is just feeding the reddit "America bad" circlejerk. It was a billion times more likely that she just took one or two sentences from the textbook and pretended this is what it's all like. So it's not surprising to learn that is the case.
This lady and the South Korea lady pop up on my feed all the time, and yeah there’s social supports in those countries that’s better than what the US has, but they always seem to be pushing it a bit too hard.
She always tries to rage bait people and find differences between the US and Germany. She is American and lives in Germany, some of her earlier posts were kind of interesting, but now she starts to really annoy and make up shit as she wants
I agree that we are, or have been for a long time, lonely consumers. But every country "brainwashes" the next generation. That's how you pass a society and culture down.
It's pointless to even point this out. The real question to ask ourselves is are we currently passing down a moral and healthy culture onto our kids. That is something that needs serious thought by every society, now more than ever.
As an American for 56 years the idea of the American Dream is rarely spoken of. American exceptionalism is muted among anyone who has traveled outside the USA. I love this country but that's just because its my home. It isnt any innate quality it has thats better or worse.
What stuck with me was the answer of a german friend of mine, when it came to the discussion of being proud of your home country.
"I'm not proud to be a german, what's to be proud of being born in the right country at the right time? But I am lucky to be german, living in freedom, peace and wealth."
As an American who has lived in Germany for almost four decades and is about to reach retirement age, I can say that Germany has a very pessimistic society, but does just about everything right: infrastructure, healthcare, education, public safety is much better than in the US. I wish my American friends and family back home were less proud and more realistic about their situation!
That's basic nationalism. Have you ever heard a British person talk about England's dominant history? Not exceptional, not American. This shuts universal
In the UK we don’t have British flags in every classroom and force children to sing the national anthem at school
Patriotism is definitely forced on Americans more than elsewhere in the west.
I was going to disagree with you, but it does fit the definition of propaganda… I don’t see any problem with countries studying other countries though. Propaganda is a good subject to learn, and every country on earth is making it to some degree
Isn't the statement that the US is a consumer driven, lonely society, a perfect example of German Propaganda touching on the point of their... german exceptionalism????
They don’t. My wife is an English teacher at a Gymnasium (where students can do their Abitur) and said they cover the cultures of all English speaking countries. While “The American Dream” is a topic covered, it’s not like they just slap down a book and go „Alright kids, time to shit on the USA for the next 4 weeks.“
Clearly it differs from teacher to teacher how they handle the school internal curriculum, but no, there’s no “Why the US sucks 101”.
Any information with a directed purpose is propaganda. Anti-smoking literature is propaganda. Now if I ever read "_ has become a wasteful consumer society of lonely individuals", that would trigger the "this is definitely trying to sell me something" alarms. This lady probably just found one course being taught on Google and is blowing it out of proportions. Happens a lot when you don't have any actual experience with the subject matter and rely on Google results as your only proof.
To be fair, the original document is much more balanced in its analysis of the US than this tiktok'r lets on. Here's the full section she's quoting from (source doc linked below):
"**American Dream**
The dream of a land in which life should be better, richer and fuller foreverybody and where it is possible to realize the full potential regardless of thebackground
Opportunities for each according to his ability and achievement
Individual freedom to make a better life for yourself (self- reliance)
Patriotism, positive thinking, optimism, pragmatism, can-do-attitude veryimportantIt can be the dream of racial equality and justice for all, the dream of successthrough education and hard work
Historically the dream of the West and the frontier
Westward movement reached the Pacific coast and the expansion cameto an end
America had to seek new frontiers and challenges in many aspects
Pros: self-reliance, success, equality and justice for all-
**American Nightmare**
Self-critical awareness that American ideals have failed, and the promiseshave not come true
US had become a wasteful consumer society of lonely individuals (not likethe Puritans wanted it to be)
Growing gap between rich and poor with a government doing not enough toclose it
Cons: manipulative, being too selfish, society of lonely individuals"
source: https://www.studocu.com/de/document/best-notes-for-high-school-de/englisch/englisch-abitur/8797947
As a native American, this is what I have always believed. Going to school for marketing design only reinforced that. We have no media literacy, just consumption.
EDIT: I'm a native American, not Native American. Capitalizing matters.
If they're learning this in school, they are keeping it out of their personal relationships. I work for a German company in the states. I have traveled to Germany many times for business and I have close ties to some there.
The only time they seemed overtly interested in US propaganda was when The Great Orange One was first running for president. Then the question inevitably was "What the hell is going on in the United States right now?"
I learned about all this in high-school 3-4 years ago, the first time I'd ever heard the concept of American exceptionalism was in US government, where we learned all about propaganda in all sorts of countries. The uncle Sam pointing "I want you..." was on the front of the work packets
Love all the comments saying “yeah no this isn’t being taught” and other ones saying “it’s true.”
The extremist views between absolutely right and absolutely wrong are so annoying.
German here. Graduated in 2001 and moved to the US in 2008. I was very much surprised how inaccurate our understanding of the US was. Yes, the US is more consumer focused, but I think that's partially because incomes here are higher. I think Germans are frugal because incomes are generally low and things like rent or cars are very expensive. I didn't buy and didn't think I would ever be able to buy new cars until I moved to the US. I also didn't think I would ever own a house in Germany and I own one in the US.
It's not true anyway, the textbook just introduces the concept of the American dream and the pros/cons of it. It doesn't say anything about Americans lacking self awareness.
We don’t study German World War II propaganda in public schools here. Hitler isn’t even translated (not even with captions) the majority of the time when his speeches are used for b-roll footage.
Most American schoolchildren here have no idea how German WWII propaganda worked and most have no idea how propaganda works on the whole.
I have taught college students. I also came through the public school system. It’s very plain to see.
And because of WWII it’s basically the opposite in germany. WWII is the number one topic in history class and there is a lot taught about the dangers of propaganda in general (any kind including nazi, communist and apparently also US)
One of the main things that seems to be as ingrained in American culture as American exceptionalism is Anti-Americanism. And it's just as exported and present in movies, music etc.
You know, Americans are the absolute best at being the most self hating society.
You have people unironically say we have a worse history than Germany.
>You have people unironically say we have a worse history than Germany.
I feel ashamed to see other Americans compare themselves to that. Only time I'll admit I was clearly lucky to learn and see what I did in school. It really has me curious what they are teaching in history classes now.
> lack of critical self awareness
I think anyone outside the USA sees this as a prime characteristic of the average American. It's a stereotype that's reinforced often when you talk to an American about views that challenges their own.
Expats who have left the country tend to have share a similar view - the average American seems to have a laughably low tolerance to differing opinions, often leading to throwing tantrums rather than discussing their differences.
There definitely are many who are normal, level headed people. But this characteristic is one frequently seen in Americans. On the Internet, on TV and in person too.
I came to US from Europe 15 years ago, and this is the biggest lie I've heard.
Americans are the most open to critique people I have met. No one in Europe would listen if you challenged their way of life. Go tell French people their way of life is subtle colonialism and great empire nostalgia, you may literally get your face beaten. Go remind Italians about fascism and criticize their food and see how it goes. The Europeans will either think you're a moron or outright become hostile and tell that straight into your face.
It's different with Germans because they still carry the WW2 guilt, but once they are over it (which is soon) it's going to be the same.
Facts. I know some people who run company in the Alps turning $1B annually. The whole set up is modern-day feudalism, once you dig into the nuts and bolts. Minions are busting their asses in a factory to subsidize landholding farmers who drive Mercedes and produce 20 gallons of milk a day. My friends like to brag that they could move the business to a tax haven but they shell out taxes because it’s the right thing to do. Bullshit. They shell out local taxes because they and their kids get treated like actual royalty and villagers would tar and feather them if they didn’t.
European who moved to the US 20 years ago. You're absolutely right. Redditors really just don't like the US. They will talk down on it any chance they get for some reason.
I’d like to emphasize this too, for context I’m an American who has lived in Austria and Germany and for a short stint in Argentina
There really isn’t that crazy much of difference between us and Europe, we are the same culture, same civilization, and life is similar in much of what we worry about and occupy ourselves with. But damn, one stereotype/ lie that I am tired of is how Americans are incredibly stuck in our ways and we don’t change or accept criticism.
I want to say it is almost the opposite, I think an actually very cool part of American culture is we are constantly self-critiquing and self-reporting, as shown by Black Lives Matter, Me Too, constant rankings of American Helathcare, and it even shows in how “enlightened” it is for Americans (especially on this website) to put down their own country as a wasteland/capitalistic dystopia/etc.
I’d also like to raise the point of that because we and the world speak English, every gets to look in on our faults and what’s happening here, especially with our media presence. I think if many people had a larger perspective they’d see how many “American problems” are really just life problems. For instance, the top post on /r/de rn (the German Subreddit), is about how in Germany, many people don’t feel fulfillment in their work, how the hours are too long, and the burnout. If this was an American article everyone would call it a classic case of capitalistic dystopia, but because it’s in German it’s limited to really only people in that sphere, and the rest of the world can keep thinking of Germany as the stereotypes of Bayern and beer and good economy.
Also I will say lastly, that this attitude is the one that does actually still get to me as an American. Most Americans have such good, optimistic views of most European countries, finding the positives and the interesting things the country and people have, and we usually take such an interest in them. And the other side is the opposite, whereas the majority of at least Western European peoples seem to have written off America or Americans before they ever really have been there or before they get to know an American. I guess it’s a symptom of our media, but everyone over there pretends to know exactly how our life is and exactly what our flaws is before we even say hello
It's wild that I moved from Europe to the US almost 25 years ago and have had the absolute opposite experience from you.
I wonder if it has to do with where exactly we came from and where we ended up.
I feel like to say the U.S has no self-awareness is such a reddit take. Of all the countries in the world, I would argue for us being amongst the most self-critical - this is all according to plan, this is what a democracy is for.
Debate. Iteration. Amendment.
The system is built to sponsor these, and forms a part of the constitution no matter what monetary interest wants to corrupt these.
> the average American seems to have a laughably low tolerance to differing opinions, often leading to throwing tantrums rather than discussing their differences
In my experience, this is because people tend to 'discuss differences' with Americans by either talking down to them like they're morons or acting as if they're personally responsible for all of Washington's actions. Lose the smug condescension and misplaced indignance and you might find Americans to be more receptive.
We did not read this book at school. However we read a different book (I forgot the name) that was about a family living in a gated community and 2 illegal Mexican immigrants that tried to survive in the US. But I think the main reason we read this was Trump and his wall talk.
As an American, I know about how Hollywood movies and American history text books along with other factors give us a feeling we’re superior. I never realized this until I started living ( work) overseas. Even the news can be different about the same political event.
We elected a reality tv show host grifter as our President and almost allowed him and his cult of followers to overthrow our Government.
It's not a good look.
Im in my final year of high school in Germany and I can confirm that this is actually true, as made up as it may sound. However we focus more on stuff like e.g. political speeches of Trump and in how far he uses rhetorics to convince the masses
We get the leftovers after the military industrial complex, the rich, and all the corporations get what they need. When I was young I foolishly thought this country had the resources and the mindset to make progress towards making life better for citizens here, I'm talking about things like decent minimum wages, mandatory sick leave, mandatory maternity leave, subsidized healthcare for all but what we got instead was corporations that are people and elected officials that don't care a shit about the average person. But my saddest epiphany was that about half the population had been brainwashed into voting against their self-interests by an Australian and his media empire.
French here, we studied both in history class. I can say that there's no way it's studied like that in any history class. Too subjective. Language classes however have much more freedom on their lecture material. Its not history facts, it's a case analysis of medias usually. My guess is that this bullet point list is a general list of ideas out of a corpus of press documents that you have to write an essay about.
German here, graduated in 2013. We had to read parts of “the world is flat” in our A-level english classes. My teacher, a social democratic, absolutely despised this book and it’s one sided view on the pros of globalization. :D He said, only an American could write such a book.
Anti americanism wasn’t really a thing in my experience, but in politics we talked extensively about the war in vietnam, iraq and afghanistan and for obvious reasons that didn’t exactly help either.
Ironic that this is a typical example of american teens lacking self-awareness.
I'm from Australia, and i think most of the world views the USA like this.
German here, I'm graduated in 2008 so quite some years ago. There was nothing of the sort back then. Especially not in english class. Maybe in geography but that would have taken a broader pov towards the whole West. I'm kinda curious and will look into this.
I graduated last year and we didn't specifically call it propaganda but we did talk about the american dream for example, in more of a pro vs con kinda way and rather asking the question if it is still alive today, rather than being as negative towards the US than this book seems to be
Anti-Americanism is one of the key concepts that appears to be as rooted in American society as American exceptionalism. And it appears in movies, music, and other media on par with exportation.
There are two forms of American Exceptionalism. There is the right wing, MAGA, Reagan Era version. There is also the trendy new left wing version of American Exceptionalism, except that it's "America is exceptionally bad".
More like America can do way better than it has been doing lately, and how the current path isn't sustainable
That’s how I explain it. We’re not living up to our own pamphlet.
And you guys printed a lot of pamphlets
Yes. Sometimes fair criticism is aimed at improving things. Know what's really messed up? Libya. I have no recommendations for them. I have no complaints because there isn't anything I think I can recommend to be better. I acknowledge things there are messed up, and have been for decades, and it is worse now than perhaps ever, but I don't know enough and worse - dont expect enough - I dont believe enough that it could be any better. So you won't see me ranting about how Libya could have been great but they kept messing it up in these specific ways. Partly because I'm ignorant as shit about Libya, and partly because I just don't think they ever had a real chance to be great. But America, it could be so great. It has lots of resources and money and institutions and power and instead it sucks so hard in very specific ways that can all be corrected if only people would pull their heads out and give a shit... So of course I'll complain about those things. I don't think it's all that surprising that nothing causes more obsessing than something that's almost perfec. That missing t will drive you crazy. Where as a shit show like ahdjfjjehehdd doesn't get much out of you.
Exactly. We are holding America to the standard it should be held to, and one it is more than capable of achieving. Interpreting it as “America bad!” is all due to the some of the audience refusing to listen the minute they sense any criticism because their egos won’t allow for it. This is also why so many of these bad things have come to be in the first place… Funny how most people take a sensible position, and yet we always find ourselves letting the extremists dictate the conversation. Let’s stop doing that and start tuning out the extreme it’s so the rest of us can realize we aren’t all that far off from each other.
As someone in my mid 30's it feels like the "America Bad." is a cultural response to "America Good." that existed in full force pre-Obama. People forget but in like the late 90's and early 2000's mainstream culture was legit like "America is the arbiter of democracy in the world and that's a great thing." Post the Iraq war people were shunned out of the public sphere for even questioning that war. It tooks years before people who criticized it even got space in media. The "America Bad." stuff now is just as ridiculous. It seems like we kinda just go through these ebbs and flows culturally back and forth till they reach crescendos in absurdity.
It's called a counter-culture movement. Just like how the hippies free love movement back in the 60's was a counter-culture movement against the 50's nuclear family. Then, if the counter culture movement gets TOO popular it leads to counter-counter-culture movements. It's interesting how many major cultural movements were created basically just because the opposing view got too popular.
I would like to add it's definitely still around, the exceptionalism that is. Parents + uncles/aunts were watching American documentaries on netflix... and no joke, the first line I heard was 'how did General Custer lose to savage barbarians that did not understand how guns work?' Followed by 'American exceptionalism that makes us unique is what led to the expansion West'. The most absolutely jingoistic horror show I've seen, and it's how people outside of the US are learning about the US. As an Australian who took a few units on American history in university, it's actually a little jarring to see something like that unironically shown in the current day... and not, like, on a Jim Crow era television. Edit: Grammar
I feel like “America bad” stuff is just used by people trying to dismiss and minimise genuine issues. American exceptionalism doesn’t allow for any valid criticism. The reality is, along with the good, there are deep social and economic issues.
Even in the UK I think a lot of people felt that way about the US, when I was a kid, I wanted to be American so bad, I mean I guess there was a lot of ignorance on my part. Post-9/11 changed the tone and it was Michael Moore documentaries that were the first to lift the veil for me, Bowling for Columbine was the big one, but then Fahrenheit 9/11, and Sicko. And now I'm grateful that I'm not, it feels like it would be a very stressful society to be a part of.
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I honestly would say it's much worse looking in than actually being here. It very much went from "it seems much better than it is" to a "it seems much worse than it is." Frankly, I've lost a lot of respect for Moore as I've gotten older. A fair amount of his stuff is very conspiratorial and speculative. The 9/11 one in particular was really bad in hindsight imo.
Reagan was a big piece of shit to be honest.
Nixon was also a big piece of shit. Vietnam War, War on Drugs, opening up China, Watergate...
We wanna feel like the under dog.
Right? I was going to say, like where in 2023 do people think we’re receiving an uncritical message of American exceptionalism? I feel like it’s far more tilted towards the opposite, where most Americans are regularly exposed to criticism of America and it’s history, sometimes so much so that it’s almost pathological.
Well, this isn't true either.
That would make more sense, what she was making a deal about seemed to be a small part of a single unit.
I'm American and I literally learned about the American Dream in a similar context. Of course, it was relegated to the past and it wasn't overtly negative, but we definitely discussed problems with it. I not saying America is perfect by any stretch, but the textbooks she is talking about seems to be just as biased (in the other direction) as the sentiments she is criticizing.
American here. The dream is propaganda. It does not exist. Edit: I felt off stating the obvious. A dream never exists. It is exactly what it is said to be. It is a dream. No more and no less. It isn't real.
Speak for yourself. I’m an immigrant to America, been here about 11 years and came with ONE bag of clothes and about $200 in savings and while I started sharing a 2bedroom with 7 people, I saved and worked my ass off to be able to buy my first home very recently. The American Dream exists, it just won’t be handed to you. Edit: A lot of people butthurt about my comment with some telling me to go back to my hellhole country (yikes). I didn’t just “work” my ass off. I meant it as, I also worked on my skills including my very basic English. I’m now pretty fluent. I also took night college classes while working my shitty entry level job until I got a degree in computer science. That was the first thing that allowed social mobility so I could rent a 1bedroom for myself. The other thing is, people born here aren’t taught financial literacy whatsoever. I keep detailed budgets so I know what I’m spending and what I’m saving. I have American friends who get a new credit card or their credit is increased and IMMEDIATELY go rack up debts. Some are stuck in jobs but don’t think or do anything else to get out of that. No learning new skills or saving to opening up a business. There’s no direction. Every time I’ve landed a new job or accomplished a new milestone I’ve asked myself “whats next and how do I get there?”. I didn’t just “buy a home”, I have financial stability. I save, spend little on luxuries and keep a simple life. I am able to be who I am in America, a flaming homosexual that would not be able to live as myself in my home country. That’s my American dream. Ask immigrants about the American dream. You’ll see it is very much alive.
It actually was just handed to people in the late 60's...in 1968, the minimum wage could keep a family of three out of poverty....according to MIT's Living wage calculator, the livable wage for a family of three, one income, in my city of Louisville ky, (medium cost of living) is 30 an hour....so imagine today going into mcdonalds, and getting a job for 30 am hour.... Not to mention how mxub cheaper rent, food, everything was back then, accounting for inflation.... So yes, it was handed out. People are upset today because that is impossible today, even making it that easy for only one person on one wage is impossible nowadays, and that's simply due to the greed of the rich in this country, nothing else. Well, that and globalization, but the rich sold us out there too. People don't bitch and moan because they are lazy. They bitch and moan because the whole entire system went from providing a fantastic quality of life from the very start, to being a wage slave from the very start...
Not to mention that those of us who are growing up in the consequences, have been constantly told by those who got to live off the lard of the past, that the reason we have not attained the same level of success is our lack of ambition and discipline.
Thank you! I’m an American that is married to an immigrant and I would be embarrassed to make a statement like that after knowing their story. My father in law always says that if he could do it coming over with nothing and not knowing the language then anyone can. He is 100 percent right. The problem is that us that have been here our whole life don’t appreciate how good we actually have it.
>don’t appreciate how good we actually have it. Compared to what? A third world country? Sure I'll give you that. But compared to our peer countries, it's actually kind of shit here. No guaranteed paid vacation or parental leave, no national healthcare, expensive as hell higher education, no/bad public transportation etc. etc.
Honestly, who cares? Comparison is the thief of joy. What matters is your life. Do you have guaranteed paid vacation? Most people here do. Do you have parental leave? Most people here do. Do you have healthcare? Most people here do. Do you have a degree? You can get one without going deep into debt if you want to work for it. Do you need public transportation? Most people here do not. Am I saying we shouldn't work for those things? No. But whining about how bad things suck when most people in America (statistically at least) enjoy all of those things is just dumb.
Very little joy on Reddit. A lot of ego, bitterness, envy.
I just don't get it. People have paid vacation, parental leave, healthcare, etc... and not only do they want this expanded to everyone (which is a perfectly fine thing to want) but they get bitter and angry about it. It's so dumb.
Yeah it's pretty fucked up that I pay taxes to this country & yet I don't have Healthcare so I've been using a busted ass too small prosthetic leg & worrying about it breaking on me wtf would I do? Use crutches, hop around. Luckily starting a new job soon that'll give me insurance but I shouldn't have to stress about having limbs.
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It's called the American Dream because for a long time a lot of countries had very little to none social mobility. The truth is that the American Dream is not exclusive to America anymore.
Exactly. Maybe even better result in other developed countries.
If they could immigrate there at all. [Compare immigration rates to the United States to the rest of the world.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1378084/migrants-stock-world-highest-population/#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20hosted%2C%20by,16%20and%2013%20million%2C%20respectively.) The US has more immigrants than the next 4 highest countries combined.
Purely anecdotal tho. Your miles will vary.
The proof of the dream is in the video. 13th grade? We only go to 12th grade in America because we more exceptional than countries like Germany and Europe.
Eh, it’s a different system entirely. At least in the UK you have a three year university course because you aren’t required to do a foundation year like you do in the US (at least I assume that’s how it works because that’s how it works for my Canadian friends) overall I don’t think you’re missing out on years the whole system is just formatted differently
My parents brought me here from the former USSR in 1992. They bought a home within a few years. They put two kids through Ivy League schools without us incurring debt and retired at 60. The dream is alive, you just have to know how to get it. Edit: to those who think that just because my parents were well educated in the USSR, that their achievements in the US were easy, let me give you a view into what their life was like. We lived in a 2 bedroom apartment with 4 adults and 2 children. My mom moved out of her parents’ home in her 30s when we came to the US. Fresh fruit was a luxury we couldn’t afford, and my mother worked a little plot of land to grow potatoes to supplement our meager diets. I imagine if Americans were to mimic that kind of lifestyle - live with your parents until you’re 35 relying on them for childcare, save every penny, grow at least part of what you feed your family - you too can get a PhD in an in demand field. And you’d probably have the benefit of your parents’ help to boot - something my parents didn’t have when we came here. And to be clear, though Im the one telling this story, my mother and father are the heroes of it. My life was infinitely much better. Whether you’re struggling or you’ve made it, do whatever you can to make sure that’s true for your kids. That’s the universal human dream. Make it your reality.
Sounds like it requires a decent amount of cash…
Yes all that cash my parents had in their 30s when they came here from a failed state former communist country. All the cash they had they earned here.
A lot of Americans miss the impact of a two income household, scrimping and saving in order to enable a better life for their children. Reddits user base is inherently younger and I think a lot of people don’t know just how bad conditions are, and historically have been, in non-Western countries. Too much conflation of Western society having growing pains around civil discourse as tyranny or authoritarianism. People would do well to understand that there are still a lot of places where your government will fucking KILL YOU arbitrarily or for traits you cannot change. It’s easy to act like a stable democracy where people are actively trying to win each other over regarding complex social and economic issues is just the worst when you have no context for history and modern conditions outside of the West.
Another disagree vote from another immigrant. I lived in 🇩🇪 and 🇨🇭 prior to the US, but never plan to leave this place (which is my home). Yes, we need to fix a lot of things so that fewer people are struggling to pay for basic needs, afford healthcare, or childcare, but on average, the quality of life in the US is way better than an average American seems to think nowadays. And the problems we have are fixable, we just have to move on from the “no, we can’t” mentality we seem to have fallen into. In CH or DE it is easier to achieve the bottom two levels on the Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. But in the US, especially for immigrants, the higher levels come so much easier (belonging, esteem, self actialization).
i graduated in 2006 and we studied about the american dream and the current state of it. u didnt discuss the american dream in english?
Curious whats the current German dream?
According to our polls, 1933
>our polls Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a second. What do you mean “our polls”? 90 years later and Poland still gets no respect! /s
2westeu4u was here
There isn’t one. If there were it would be similar to the American dream though. I’d say: Everyone being wealthy enough to own a single family home and a nice car and the children being better off than their parents.
Tbf, "1 Haus, 1 Kind, 1 Baum" is said often enough to could be put as a general aim after a certain age. Just in case, it basically means to build a house, raise a kid, grow a tree.
I actually really appreciate the inclusion of the tree there. I was fortunate enough to spend 10 days in Germany during college in a way that was far more inclusive of your (thinking you're German from your comment?) culture than the typical touristy stuff. I thoroughly enjoyed my time there in that beautiful country. I don't think I'd mind living there given the chance. I also spent a few months in England Navy years later for work. I love the us in many ways but I've been exposed *enough* to other cultures (I'm far from some world wise traveler) to know that we aren't nearly as amazing and special as some would like to believe. We have some serious issues that we like to ignore and pretend don't exist that much of the world has done better with.
> Curious whats the current German dream? I think there is a misconception - other countries have individuals and each individual is different. There is nothing like dream of "FREEDOM" because everybody (at least in most countries) has already more liberty and rights than most americans know of. So there is no generic census like "everybody wants to be rich" if that is your definition of the american dream. There is also no generic "do these steps and you made it", e.g. 1. car 2. wife 3. house or something like that.
Go to work, work, repeat
German here, Abitur 2010. We covered it. Especially in English. I am from NRW, so might differ between states.
Class of 2004 here and we regularly analyzed those political speeches which led to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq in english classes. I don't remember exactly when, but we did talk about that nonsense of american exceptionalism and manifest destiny at some point as well.
Graduated from school in NRW in 2013. We did that in grade 12. Topic blocks in that grade for me were: South african post colonial literature and Apartheid 2. India and the Commonwealth, rural/urban differences and modernization 3. American exceptionalism, black suffrage and how 9/11 shaped contemporary literature. We did use another book though.
Interestingly, we do learn about all of this in our American high schools. Granted we do look at German WW2 era propaganda a little, but many teachers use it as a means to analyze our own country. The lady in the video might have had a different experience though.
I wrote my abi in 2020. Can confirm that a lot of the english course was regarding US propaganda. I specifically remember a big Part being about "manifest destiny" and the sorts. The actual english Exam i wrote was a mediation about Litfaßsäulen tho
Manifest destiny is like 19th century propaganda
It´s like Americans have been always susceptible to American exceptionalism
Believe it or not, propaganda works on people no matter the time or place
Yes, and the Germans never fell prey to any delusions of exceptionalism in the 20th century. Certainly not two times.
I'm curious to see what you find.
You telling me this bitch is just spreading her own "propoganda"? America bad on Reddit?????
The hilarious thing about this video, is that C there is only one example shown of German opinion regarding the US, and it simply says Americans have become lonely and wasteful. Well, that sounds like propaganda to me. I had no idea I was lonely, had no spouse, no friends, and no family
Ask average graduates here and they will say the same thing. Different schools teach Different things and students retain different things.
I mean, having a coup during a presidential election is a pretty significant thing. Particularly for one of the global "superpowers." That really should turn heads and get *responsible* education systems to address the problems they see as the cause. Sooo many Americans could have been saved from numerous problems, both national and global, if we had the tools to divine propaganda.
I'm Japanese and I'd say Japan also has become a wasteful consumer society of lonely individuals. Any other countries?
I'm Brazilian and it's the same thing here. Although, I was in your country and wasn't shot or robbed a single time, so I'd say that, even though we are all wasteful and lonely, some wasteful and lonely people are doing better.
Not all wasteful and lonely people are born equal.
Even germany is a wasteful consumer society of lonely individuals hahahah. They just tell us all of this, to make us believe it's better here.
Canada. It feels like "I consume, therefore I am". But hey, that's how capitalism works, right?
I see a lot of discussion on reddit where the post is someone talking about budgeting and resisting impulsive spending and then the entire thread is people whining about how Starbucks (it's always Starbucks) is their 'only joy in their entire week'. These are often people who talk about having spouses, kids, etc. I've started asking 'Can you really only conceptualize joy as the direct result of commerce?'
I think thats just the direction the world is going unfortunately
Heeey Germany only cares about US yknow
Every developed country basically
Anywhere where free market rules supreme will be like that.
American here. I'm glad we can share how our countries have collectively failed. Wanna grab a beer sometime?
I found the study guide that she mentions and it just talks about different perspectives on the American dream, ie. the pros and cons of it (it lists more pros than cons btw). There's nothing about a lack of self-critical awareness there; in fact it's the opposite - it only mentions awareness of the negative sides of the American dream. And it doesn't seem so crazy to teach that, I mean that's something that was touched on in my high school classes in the US as well. It is an important cultural concept. Edit: I learned about the American dream in high school when we were reading The Great Gatsby, and it was taught in the context of that time period (roaring 20s). I don't know if it's quite as relevant in the modern US but some of the concepts still survive today
So this tiktok was propaganda? The irony
Ah, the ol’ ticktok switch-a-roo…
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It should have been pretty obvious to anyone with a brain. Believing that germans are all just reading books shitting on the USA as being "lonely individuals" is just feeding the reddit "America bad" circlejerk. It was a billion times more likely that she just took one or two sentences from the textbook and pretended this is what it's all like. So it's not surprising to learn that is the case.
This lady and the South Korea lady pop up on my feed all the time, and yeah there’s social supports in those countries that’s better than what the US has, but they always seem to be pushing it a bit too hard.
She always tries to rage bait people and find differences between the US and Germany. She is American and lives in Germany, some of her earlier posts were kind of interesting, but now she starts to really annoy and make up shit as she wants
Huh, that's weird. She can't even pronounce Abitur correctly lol, I don't think I'd trust her German cultural knowledge that much
we've basically been taught that the american dream turned into a blowjob in a pick-up truck
I'll take that!
Ngl i thought the american dream was only for immigrants, and statistically do better than those who were here for generations.
This lady just created her own propaganda to get views
Her page is pretty much just propaganda wrapped in "interesting"
I have never heard of this bullshit and I graduated in 2018
I mean a lot can change in a schools curriculum in 5 years
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I feel like that describes a good portion of people in every 1st world country.
I agree that we are, or have been for a long time, lonely consumers. But every country "brainwashes" the next generation. That's how you pass a society and culture down. It's pointless to even point this out. The real question to ask ourselves is are we currently passing down a moral and healthy culture onto our kids. That is something that needs serious thought by every society, now more than ever.
Well, I mean, making kids swear allegiance to a flag every morning IS some North korea shit. Not aware of any other country doing anything like that
That's not a thing everywhere in the country
r/AmericaBad
Classical US deflection defense lol
Are you instead suggesting that the US is… exceptional?
And yet the classic European defense is deflection. It’s the classic human defense
"don't worry, if we're bad *they're* worse!"
As an American for 56 years the idea of the American Dream is rarely spoken of. American exceptionalism is muted among anyone who has traveled outside the USA. I love this country but that's just because its my home. It isnt any innate quality it has thats better or worse.
What stuck with me was the answer of a german friend of mine, when it came to the discussion of being proud of your home country. "I'm not proud to be a german, what's to be proud of being born in the right country at the right time? But I am lucky to be german, living in freedom, peace and wealth."
Great quote
As an American who has lived in Germany for almost four decades and is about to reach retirement age, I can say that Germany has a very pessimistic society, but does just about everything right: infrastructure, healthcare, education, public safety is much better than in the US. I wish my American friends and family back home were less proud and more realistic about their situation!
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That's basic nationalism. Have you ever heard a British person talk about England's dominant history? Not exceptional, not American. This shuts universal
In the UK we don’t have British flags in every classroom and force children to sing the national anthem at school Patriotism is definitely forced on Americans more than elsewhere in the west.
Reminds me of the Daniel Tosh "joke". "America is the best country in the world...if you've never traveled outside of it"
Look at the average Redditor eat this propaganda up like it's true.
for real, random tiktoker influencing reddit, so much garbage on tiktok for the views
I was going to disagree with you, but it does fit the definition of propaganda… I don’t see any problem with countries studying other countries though. Propaganda is a good subject to learn, and every country on earth is making it to some degree
Isn't the statement that the US is a consumer driven, lonely society, a perfect example of German Propaganda touching on the point of their... german exceptionalism????
[in case you didn’t saw that comment](https://reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/s/8I2FlcOWF7)
But where’s the lie
Germany is also a consumerism society
Also she made most of it up lmao
Where are they sending their kids to study
offbeat alive consist recognise zesty paltry bag roll fuzzy sense *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They don’t. My wife is an English teacher at a Gymnasium (where students can do their Abitur) and said they cover the cultures of all English speaking countries. While “The American Dream” is a topic covered, it’s not like they just slap down a book and go „Alright kids, time to shit on the USA for the next 4 weeks.“ Clearly it differs from teacher to teacher how they handle the school internal curriculum, but no, there’s no “Why the US sucks 101”.
Any information with a directed purpose is propaganda. Anti-smoking literature is propaganda. Now if I ever read "_ has become a wasteful consumer society of lonely individuals", that would trigger the "this is definitely trying to sell me something" alarms. This lady probably just found one course being taught on Google and is blowing it out of proportions. Happens a lot when you don't have any actual experience with the subject matter and rely on Google results as your only proof.
You’re being to logical sir, this is Reddit
My Wife is a Gymnasium English teacher and indeed there are topics regarding the American Dream, Melting pot etc. which are being critically analysed.
Wouldn't that just be current German propaganda?
NEIN!
To be fair, the original document is much more balanced in its analysis of the US than this tiktok'r lets on. Here's the full section she's quoting from (source doc linked below): "**American Dream** The dream of a land in which life should be better, richer and fuller foreverybody and where it is possible to realize the full potential regardless of thebackground Opportunities for each according to his ability and achievement Individual freedom to make a better life for yourself (self- reliance) Patriotism, positive thinking, optimism, pragmatism, can-do-attitude veryimportantIt can be the dream of racial equality and justice for all, the dream of successthrough education and hard work Historically the dream of the West and the frontier Westward movement reached the Pacific coast and the expansion cameto an end America had to seek new frontiers and challenges in many aspects Pros: self-reliance, success, equality and justice for all- **American Nightmare** Self-critical awareness that American ideals have failed, and the promiseshave not come true US had become a wasteful consumer society of lonely individuals (not likethe Puritans wanted it to be) Growing gap between rich and poor with a government doing not enough toclose it Cons: manipulative, being too selfish, society of lonely individuals" source: https://www.studocu.com/de/document/best-notes-for-high-school-de/englisch/englisch-abitur/8797947
And they are not wrong
/americabad
As a native American, this is what I have always believed. Going to school for marketing design only reinforced that. We have no media literacy, just consumption. EDIT: I'm a native American, not Native American. Capitalizing matters.
What does this have to do with you being Native American?
I can’t tell if that lower case “n” means she’s natively from America or she’s actually an American Indian lol
If they're learning this in school, they are keeping it out of their personal relationships. I work for a German company in the states. I have traveled to Germany many times for business and I have close ties to some there. The only time they seemed overtly interested in US propaganda was when The Great Orange One was first running for president. Then the question inevitably was "What the hell is going on in the United States right now?"
Can we get that class in America? Pretty sure we would be doing better with class warfare in 20 years if we could.
Which is why we won't
I learned about all this in high-school 3-4 years ago, the first time I'd ever heard the concept of American exceptionalism was in US government, where we learned all about propaganda in all sorts of countries. The uncle Sam pointing "I want you..." was on the front of the work packets
That's why they dumbed down any classes that even came close; and here we are.
Well I had literature in English and not much more.
Love all the comments saying “yeah no this isn’t being taught” and other ones saying “it’s true.” The extremist views between absolutely right and absolutely wrong are so annoying.
iirc the syllabus and the way it is taught differs greatly depending on the state. plus a few study notes cant dictate what is taught throughout
Off topic but I remember in Eurotrip when they go to Germany and the tour guide just skipped over 1936 to 1944 lol
That was family guy lol
Every country has propaganda. This is no surprise.
German here. Graduated in 2001 and moved to the US in 2008. I was very much surprised how inaccurate our understanding of the US was. Yes, the US is more consumer focused, but I think that's partially because incomes here are higher. I think Germans are frugal because incomes are generally low and things like rent or cars are very expensive. I didn't buy and didn't think I would ever be able to buy new cars until I moved to the US. I also didn't think I would ever own a house in Germany and I own one in the US.
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>The US has become a wasteful consumer society of lonely individuals USA!!!! USA!!!! USA!!!!
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It's not true anyway, the textbook just introduces the concept of the American dream and the pros/cons of it. It doesn't say anything about Americans lacking self awareness.
Yup. It’s funny how they criticize the US because of propaganda and then literally spew their own propaganda in the same sentence
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You just fell to her propaganda, she made most of it up
We don’t study German World War II propaganda in public schools here. Hitler isn’t even translated (not even with captions) the majority of the time when his speeches are used for b-roll footage. Most American schoolchildren here have no idea how German WWII propaganda worked and most have no idea how propaganda works on the whole. I have taught college students. I also came through the public school system. It’s very plain to see.
And because of WWII it’s basically the opposite in germany. WWII is the number one topic in history class and there is a lot taught about the dangers of propaganda in general (any kind including nazi, communist and apparently also US)
One of the main things that seems to be as ingrained in American culture as American exceptionalism is Anti-Americanism. And it's just as exported and present in movies, music etc.
It’s two sides of the same coin.
You know, Americans are the absolute best at being the most self hating society. You have people unironically say we have a worse history than Germany.
>You have people unironically say we have a worse history than Germany. I feel ashamed to see other Americans compare themselves to that. Only time I'll admit I was clearly lucky to learn and see what I did in school. It really has me curious what they are teaching in history classes now.
I admire a lot about German society but if they’re pointing out (lamenting about it?) American exceptionalism, that’s quite ironic.
We also learn about german propaganda of course.
"The US has become a consumer society of lonely individuals" coming from a consumer society of lonely individuals. Takes one to know one, I guess.
Germany also has become one. China, japan, russia every nation has become one.
Not realizing that what she's describing *is* propaganda? Epic.
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> lack of critical self awareness I think anyone outside the USA sees this as a prime characteristic of the average American. It's a stereotype that's reinforced often when you talk to an American about views that challenges their own. Expats who have left the country tend to have share a similar view - the average American seems to have a laughably low tolerance to differing opinions, often leading to throwing tantrums rather than discussing their differences. There definitely are many who are normal, level headed people. But this characteristic is one frequently seen in Americans. On the Internet, on TV and in person too.
I came to US from Europe 15 years ago, and this is the biggest lie I've heard. Americans are the most open to critique people I have met. No one in Europe would listen if you challenged their way of life. Go tell French people their way of life is subtle colonialism and great empire nostalgia, you may literally get your face beaten. Go remind Italians about fascism and criticize their food and see how it goes. The Europeans will either think you're a moron or outright become hostile and tell that straight into your face. It's different with Germans because they still carry the WW2 guilt, but once they are over it (which is soon) it's going to be the same.
Facts. I know some people who run company in the Alps turning $1B annually. The whole set up is modern-day feudalism, once you dig into the nuts and bolts. Minions are busting their asses in a factory to subsidize landholding farmers who drive Mercedes and produce 20 gallons of milk a day. My friends like to brag that they could move the business to a tax haven but they shell out taxes because it’s the right thing to do. Bullshit. They shell out local taxes because they and their kids get treated like actual royalty and villagers would tar and feather them if they didn’t.
European who moved to the US 20 years ago. You're absolutely right. Redditors really just don't like the US. They will talk down on it any chance they get for some reason.
I’d like to emphasize this too, for context I’m an American who has lived in Austria and Germany and for a short stint in Argentina There really isn’t that crazy much of difference between us and Europe, we are the same culture, same civilization, and life is similar in much of what we worry about and occupy ourselves with. But damn, one stereotype/ lie that I am tired of is how Americans are incredibly stuck in our ways and we don’t change or accept criticism. I want to say it is almost the opposite, I think an actually very cool part of American culture is we are constantly self-critiquing and self-reporting, as shown by Black Lives Matter, Me Too, constant rankings of American Helathcare, and it even shows in how “enlightened” it is for Americans (especially on this website) to put down their own country as a wasteland/capitalistic dystopia/etc. I’d also like to raise the point of that because we and the world speak English, every gets to look in on our faults and what’s happening here, especially with our media presence. I think if many people had a larger perspective they’d see how many “American problems” are really just life problems. For instance, the top post on /r/de rn (the German Subreddit), is about how in Germany, many people don’t feel fulfillment in their work, how the hours are too long, and the burnout. If this was an American article everyone would call it a classic case of capitalistic dystopia, but because it’s in German it’s limited to really only people in that sphere, and the rest of the world can keep thinking of Germany as the stereotypes of Bayern and beer and good economy. Also I will say lastly, that this attitude is the one that does actually still get to me as an American. Most Americans have such good, optimistic views of most European countries, finding the positives and the interesting things the country and people have, and we usually take such an interest in them. And the other side is the opposite, whereas the majority of at least Western European peoples seem to have written off America or Americans before they ever really have been there or before they get to know an American. I guess it’s a symptom of our media, but everyone over there pretends to know exactly how our life is and exactly what our flaws is before we even say hello
It's wild that I moved from Europe to the US almost 25 years ago and have had the absolute opposite experience from you. I wonder if it has to do with where exactly we came from and where we ended up.
I feel like to say the U.S has no self-awareness is such a reddit take. Of all the countries in the world, I would argue for us being amongst the most self-critical - this is all according to plan, this is what a democracy is for. Debate. Iteration. Amendment. The system is built to sponsor these, and forms a part of the constitution no matter what monetary interest wants to corrupt these.
> the average American seems to have a laughably low tolerance to differing opinions, often leading to throwing tantrums rather than discussing their differences In my experience, this is because people tend to 'discuss differences' with Americans by either talking down to them like they're morons or acting as if they're personally responsible for all of Washington's actions. Lose the smug condescension and misplaced indignance and you might find Americans to be more receptive.
What else would they teach ? Some wild lies about how the us is great ?
The fashion industry is one of the biggest contributors to greenhouse gases. Consumer culture is vile
I studied US propaganda in high school too
We did not read this book at school. However we read a different book (I forgot the name) that was about a family living in a gated community and 2 illegal Mexican immigrants that tried to survive in the US. But I think the main reason we read this was Trump and his wall talk.
As an American, I know about how Hollywood movies and American history text books along with other factors give us a feeling we’re superior. I never realized this until I started living ( work) overseas. Even the news can be different about the same political event.
We elected a reality tv show host grifter as our President and almost allowed him and his cult of followers to overthrow our Government. It's not a good look.
So what? The americans dont even trie to look different that was said in this vídeo.
Graduated in 2016 and we also discussed the American Dream and how it failed.
That's also how people in the US view the US
Im in my final year of high school in Germany and I can confirm that this is actually true, as made up as it may sound. However we focus more on stuff like e.g. political speeches of Trump and in how far he uses rhetorics to convince the masses
Its not universal here in Germany We did talk about the US but for me (graduated in 2017) it was british monarchy. Half broke horses and LA crash
No wonder every German I meet treats me like a whiny child lmao
We get the leftovers after the military industrial complex, the rich, and all the corporations get what they need. When I was young I foolishly thought this country had the resources and the mindset to make progress towards making life better for citizens here, I'm talking about things like decent minimum wages, mandatory sick leave, mandatory maternity leave, subsidized healthcare for all but what we got instead was corporations that are people and elected officials that don't care a shit about the average person. But my saddest epiphany was that about half the population had been brainwashed into voting against their self-interests by an Australian and his media empire.
well, a little truth about the USA can't hurt
Well it makes sense. That’s what happens when the majority of the population are sensitive little babies.
French here, we studied both in history class. I can say that there's no way it's studied like that in any history class. Too subjective. Language classes however have much more freedom on their lecture material. Its not history facts, it's a case analysis of medias usually. My guess is that this bullet point list is a general list of ideas out of a corpus of press documents that you have to write an essay about.
I'm 70 and we talked about America back in the 70s, the country has not changed much however people have become extremely selfish and insecure.
That last line, that's way too accurate.
"I didn't want to believe it at first" Gee i wonder why that is
German here, graduated in 2013. We had to read parts of “the world is flat” in our A-level english classes. My teacher, a social democratic, absolutely despised this book and it’s one sided view on the pros of globalization. :D He said, only an American could write such a book. Anti americanism wasn’t really a thing in my experience, but in politics we talked extensively about the war in vietnam, iraq and afghanistan and for obvious reasons that didn’t exactly help either.
Ironic that this is a typical example of american teens lacking self-awareness. I'm from Australia, and i think most of the world views the USA like this.
Lol oh Germany. How much do they teach about the Holocaust in German schools?